Conference hydra::dejavu

Well, let me try again....

Try reading _The Tibetian Book of the Dead_.  I understand it is a good
reference for post-death experiences. 

Terry

    .0...........
    You're not alone. I get lost in this stuff myself. Interseting,
    yes, definable, no way. For every weird thing that happens you'll
    get a hundred explanations ranging from devil spirits to little
    green men from outer space. What "moves the puck around the board"..
    spiritual communication through medium or the nerves in your hand?
    
    I take a very objective view of all this with a small dose of
    skeptisism. A larger dose and I wouldn't bother reading this 
    conference. I *do* believe the personal name in .1 says it all:
    When you believe it, you'll see it. My personal experience with
    a spirit (824 I believe) chronicals a skeptic turned believer in
    that with every occurance my belief increased and vice versa. 

    Re .0
    
    Anyone who claims to have an easy answer to your questions is probably
    wrong or at least short-sighted.
    
    What happens after death?  There are lots of theories.  In addition
    to the Tibetian book of the Dead, I would reccomend reading _Life
    after Life_ and _Life Before Life_.   I don't remember the author
    of either of these books.
    
    I happen to believe that there is a place of rest and repose that
    spirits are supposed to go to after death before their next
    incarnation.  Some people may be tied to this world for a time.
    As for the Ouija, it could be one of these dead stuck here, it could
    be some other entity, or it could be the people using the Ouija
    board.  That's what I don't like about Ouija - too many unknowns.
    
    Elizabeth

  I believe Science and its' close VooDoo ally, Engineering, provide tools
  useful to predict nature & provide basic necessities of life.  But, some of
  our vaunted technology is sifted from 'superstitious' ideas & observations.
  Taken to extremes, excessive control of nature damages life.  Adherents to
  yesterday's science are like apostles of discredited religions.  Ignoring
  information which doesn't fit our preconceptions, risks passing up chances
  to increase comprehension and grow. Taking everything at face value, doesn't
  develop discrimination or balanced growth.  Consider all evidence & reports,
  but be critical. Todays' spirituality may be tomorrows' physics. ;-) MWR

    But seriously, .0, I notice some culturally ingrained unproven
    assumptions about spirituallity in your question.  In terms of
    absolute proof, the theory that the body is inhabited by a soul
    at all is no more tenable than the theory that we are purely
    mechanistic constructs having all the appearances of a soul with
    the presumption of free will.  If in fact a seperable 'soul' exists,
    we have no real proof that it has an individual existence apart
    from some vast pool of spiritual absolute other than its' temp-
    orary residence in some corporeal entity....MWR
    

    Think of it is way -
    
    	"You are not this body 
    	  you are not this mind
    	   you are the Spirit..."
    
    Unfortunately, most of the noters prefer in pursuit the dead Spirit
    and choose to neglect the living Spirit.  Therefore, the separation
    of body/mind and Spirit continues on despite the teach of many great
    incarnation from the past.

    >> Unfortunately, most of the noters prefer in pursuit the dead Spirit
    >> and choose to neglect the living Spirit.  Therefore, the separation
   
    Any chance you could expand on what you mean by this, er "interesting"
    statement ?
    
    
    Dave ( a living Noter )

    
    RE: .0
    
    	Hi Cheri,
    I think that the "theory" that you are asking about will lead to
    different answers everytime you ask it. 
    
    > "I cant understand most of it."
    
    	Join the club! Most of us (I guess i would draw flack if I said
    all.) will be in this state till we croak untill then we just go
    on "belief"/"emotion".
    
    > "...and goes on to the next plane. Then what happens to it?"
    
    	Again I must say that if you ask 10 people you will get 100
    answers.        No one really "KNOWS" they may strongly "BELIEVE".
    Thats why there are so many different Religions, Beliefs, and Wars.
    
    > "I just wish I understood more!"
    
    	I wish I could delete my need to understand! But your not alone...
    just enjoy the reading, ask questions, and in no time you'll be
    filled with big words, amazing stories, untold knowledge, and be
    as confused as ever. :-)   :-)
    	Then maybe you'll find a way of thinking that makes everything
    fit together for YOU, (if you havn't already!) and maybe you can
    be "The Just And Oblique Crusader!!" and call everyone else confused
    and ignorant! ;-)
    
    Hope this didn't add to your confusion!
    Craig 
    

    
    
    Cherie,
    
    I entered some information in note 8.14 outlining one perspective
    of the different planes we exist on.  It might be of interest to
    you.
    
    Carole

    
    Craig, 
    
    It's always nice to know that I'm not the only one wondering about
    this stuff, and that alot of the terminology goes flying over the
    heads of others!
                             
    
    and re .10 (Carole):
    
    Thanks for the reference!
    
    
    and thanks to everyone who's responded.  I know there are no definite
    answers to my questions, but I thought maybe someone could help
    me clarify things.  Now I see that most of the noters here each
    have their own beliefs, etc., which makes it very hard to define
    things.  That's fine, eventually I'll get well-versed enough to
    make a few decisions, too!
    
    Regards,
    Cherie
    

    re:  Cherie
    
       re: Cherie, I like that.  :-)  (Reminds me of Stevie Wonder)
    
       If you believe what you wrote, then I'd say you succeeded in
    discovering a valuable lesson.  Yes, it does appear (from my
    vantage point as well) that reality is indeed subjective AND
    there is not always an easy answer.  
       I've put these things in here before but I feel like putting
    them in here again: (from Lazaris)
       "Reality=(Beliefs + Emotions) multiplied by Imagination."
    
       also, "metaphysicians are not the ones with all the answers,
    they are the one with many solutions."
                                             
    Frederick
    
    

    re. - .8
    
    The truth, the reality is always hard for human being to face it.
    Our free will - the freedom of choice always want to lead us to
    the easy pass or the fun pass.
    
    By "dead Spirit", I mean the spirit from a dead person; for instance,
    the Spirit Channeling, Ouija board, psychic, witchcraft...to name
    a few are all dealing with the dead spirit.  They all lure you to
    the past and the future - away from the present where we belong
    to.
    
    I believe most of the noters in Dejauv are the seeker, seeker of
    the truth.  We are the seeker of the reality - searching the meaning
    of life (this life - the present one).  Without discretion, we all
    play into the hands of the unknown dead spirits.
    

    re: -.1
     
         Well, if the information we obtain can be taken for the
    truth it is said to be, then *All* the entities we communicate
    with are NOT dead spirits.  In other words, while many may
    be entities who were formerly in bodies, there is nothing to
    indicate that all of them were (nor conversely, for that matter.)
    
         People have repeatedly stated that we should all proceed with
    caution.  I think that is good advice, no matter what it is in 
    reference to; at least until one has developed the trust necessary
    to sustain impeccable focus.
    
    Frederick
    

    Re .13
    
    Good point but...
    
    Just because a Spirit / Soul is not currently incarnated ( certain such
    as Lazaris et al *MAY* have passed beyond the level at which they need
    to do this ) does not necessarily make it's message any less relevant
    to our current lifetimes. 
    
    I agree with you that some 'seekers' may delve deep into blind alleys
    by gazing into past or future through these means, but from what I've
    read in this conference, most of us here *are* questing for *current*
    truths, relevant and applicable to the present.
    
    Dave.
    
    P.S. There is quite a body ( no pun intended ) of opinion suggesting
    that time is just an illusion anyway...  (8^) 

    The truth is not meant for you to believe or not believe but you
    can experience it through you center nerve system.  The truth is
    not meant for you to understand through your mental level.  This
    is one main reason why Christ was preaching to the non-intellectual
    instead of the educated individual.  A truth will not change through
    the age or social circumstances.  You do not need a lot of money
    in order to acquire that truth neither.  Here, let me stress that
    our human brain is so little used despite the size of it. By going
    out and search for it, you will not achieve the knowledge of God.
    
    If you are really interested at what kind of special person you
    are, you can go on to note #401.7 - A Unique Discovery.  I think
    everyone owns him/herself an experience.  And, you centainly deserve
    the best in this world.
    
    
    
    
  

    RE .13
    
    >the Spirit Channeling, Ouija board, psychic, witchcraft...to name a few
    >are all dealing with the dead spirit. 
    
    Spirit channeling, and sometimes Ouija boards indeed with dead spirits.
    Psychic phenomenon are probably a manifestation of human brains, and
    often deal with the present. (Topher?).  Witchcraft is not a means for
    dealing with the dead - it is a religion. 
    
    Elizabeth

    re: < Note 838.13 by RAINBO::SU >
                                     -< ! >-

    
�     By "dead Spirit", I mean the spirit from a dead person; for instance,
�     the Spirit Channeling, Ouija board, psychic, witchcraft...to name
�     a few are all dealing with the dead spirit.  They all lure you to
�     the past and the future - away from the present where we belong
�     to.

    "dead spirit" seems oxymoronic.
    It seems to me that "dead" is being used with a negative connotation.
    I think "dead" applies only to physical bodies that are no longer
    functioning.   
    
    Only each individual can decide where s/he belongs.   Lessons
    are everywhere to be learned.

    RE: .18
    
    You are right. May be the definition of "dead Spirit" should be
    "the soul which left a dead physical body"?
    
    As long as you are still in control, I suppose.