Conference hydra::dejavu

    re .0 (Mary Jo):
    
    >    I woke to a very bright white light accompanied by a strong heat.
    >    It had been raining most of the week with some occasional thunder
    >  	 and lightening though I don't remember if it were storming that
    >	 night.
         
    Tantalizing!  Could you give a _few_ more details?  Was this "white
    light" coming from a source, as an overhead lamp (or star, or
    sun_equivalent)?  Or was it arounmd you like a fog?
    
    It sounds suggestively like some natural electrical phenomenin,
    like a variant of St. Elmo's fire, or perhaps ball lightning.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    	Steve, the light was inside the tent consuming about 1/5-1/4
    	of a 8X10 cabin tent.  I don't think I looked up and it didn't
    	seem to have a source nor was it coming through then tent, more
    	like self contained.  The light by itself I think I could have
    	handled but the heat that accompanied it was too much.  We had
    	some emotionally stressful times that week and at first I related
    	it to that but now that you've mentioned the electricity aspect
    	I  wonder if that makes more sense.
    
    Thanks-
    
    Mary Jo

    >While camping I woke to a very bright white light accompanied by
    a strong heat.<
    
    	Question:  What time was this?  Was it in the middle of the
    night?  Was the sun coming up?  Was the sun already up?  
    	Need more detail concerning event.  Insufficient DATA!!!
    
    

    
    Re.3  Sorry...
    
    It was in the middle of the night and there was no sun in sight.
    And the light/heat combo wasn't a fog as Steve questioned but more
    like a rather large blob, meaning no distinct curves or edges.
    Does that help?
    
    Mary Jo

    
    	RE: the last few.
    
    	Q: Did it make any sound?  Was there any static electricity
    left in the tent after it left?
    
    
    	GCA/
    
    

    ======================================================================
    < Note 810.0 by PRYDE::ROCHA >
                                 -< FIREBALLS >-

    Sometimes and rather infrequently (who knows though how often this
    phenomema occurs in the woods) there is a lightning-related phenoma
    known as a"fire ball" which is explained electrically and may be
    what you experienced.  I have read that it has entered homes through
    windows, etc. and can cause very bright light and heat.  
    
    Asking a few people around my office area as I write this reply
    tells me that not many people know of this natural occurence.
    
    JUST A THOUGHT!
    
    
    MARY B.
    

    Re .9 (Mary B):
    
    > Sometimes and rather infrequently (who knows though how often this
    >phenomema occurs in the woods) there is a lightning-related phenoma
    >known as a"fire ball" which is explained electrically ...
     
    This is more usually called "ball loghtning," and is certainly a
    good candidate for what has been described.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Re.5
    	<<Q: Did it make any sound?  Was there any static electricity
    	left in the tent after it left?>>
    
    No sound, no static.  What makes me feel like I missed something
    is that I felt very calm (serene) after this.                 
    
    The fireball is an interesting theory and I'd like to know more
    about it.  I do wonder why there wouldn't be anything visible
    left - such as a singed tent window or the canvas itself.
    
    Thanks for all your inputs!
    
    Mary Jo

    Sounds like ball lightning.
    
    Some of the BL theories ascribe that the BL plasma is contained
    by a strong magnetic field.
    
    Did you have a compass?  Did it function normally before the incident?
    Does it function normally now?
    
    What about other ferrous objects?  Are any manetized/demagnetized
    by the event?  Cassette tapes?
    
    Was anything scorched?  Did the "light" damage or alter anything?
    
    	---
    
    	Sounds like fun!
    	-Bill
    

    	Another thought to consider.  Depending on the position in which
    you were in just prior to awakening.  If you have ever fallen asleep
    with you forehead resting on an arm so as to apply pressure to the
    forehead and eyes.  Immediately after you awake and open your eyes
    you may sense a presence of light, accompanied by the heat caused
    by the contact/pressure upon the forehead.
    	Perhaps you were awakened by some noise and immediately turned
    over and experienced this effect.  When this occured was your arm
    numb or tingly such as that you would experience when the circulation
    was cut off from the pressure of resting your head upon it.
    
    Dan
    

    St. Elmo's Fire?  Was there metal near the top of the tent?  
    
    _Jody
    

RE: .11 (Jody)
    
    It's my understanding that St. Elmo's Fire does not give off
    significant amounts of heat, unlike ball lightning.  It is not,
    therefore a candidate.  In any case, wet fabric or wood (ship's
    sails, masts and ropes) are the traditional "sources" of St.
    Elmo's fire, so the presence or absence of metal in the tent
    is not critical.
    
    					Topher

	I had an experience with what I guess was St. Elmo's fire, judging from
-.1, because there was no heat. I was watching TV when I felt all the hair on my
body lift. I looked at the window just as a globe of light came through and 
headed straight for the TV. The TV gave off a loud crackling sound and the 
screen went white for a second. Then it was over. I was just beginning to think 
I imagined the whole thing when I saw my wife givving me a "Did you just see 
what I just saw?" look.

	I don't know what you saw and felt in your tent, but these things are 
awe inspiring, aren't they?

Pete

    My vote is for ball lightening.
    
    Back in the 1930's my Grandmother was working in a cigar factory
    in Philadelphia.  She says that one day ball lightning came through
    a skylight (to the wonderment of the workers) floated around and
    then.....exploded!
           
    BTW, this stuff occurs so rarely that there is no scientific evidence
    that it really exists.
    
    John M.

RE: .13 (Pete)
    
    What you describe sounds much more like ball lightning than like
    St. Elmo's Fire.
    
    No one knows what ball lighting is (though some people think they
    know -- i.e., they have a theory).  But it seems to be a concentrated
    ball of energy.  Through most of its "lifetime" it emits light,
    but very little heat, if it "shorts out" though, and releases its
    energy in a relatively short time, a lot of energy is released as
    heat and possibly as sound.  So heat may or may not be present.
    It would seem in your case that the energy was discharged through
    the wiring of your TV set and so little heat was produced.  A
    lightning ball discharging into wet earth would be meeting a great
    deal of electrical resistance and so would be likely to produce
    heat.
    
    St. Elmo's Fire is a discharge from narrow or pointed objects as
    a result of the powerful electrical fields that can be set up during
    an electrical storm.  Since the light is being produced "directly"
    rather than thermally, it is cold.  It is most often seen in storms
    at sea, where masts, ropes, crew etc., would become lined with a
    flickering halo of light.  Medieval sailors believed that this was
    an omen from St. Elmo, patron saint of sailors (one of several
    actually) -- his promise that they would survive.  Since it would
    be rather unusual for anyone to survive a sinking under these
    conditions there were few who could claim from experience that it
    wasn't so.
    
    						Topher

    Well, there are some reasonably well documented experiments (mistakes)
    that show how ball lightning can be created synthetically:
    
    On board a GATO-class WWII submarine, run the engines up to full
    power on battery charge, fully charge batteries, then throw the
    battery chain into reverse with the generators on full forward.
    
    The main circuit breakers will blow hard, and ball lightning _may_
    emerge from the cabinet.     
    
    Doing this puts a tremendous strain on the generator windings, it
    is NOT something you want to do every day.
    
    The critical thing to get ball lightning seems to be achieveing an arc
    current of 400Kamperes per square centimeter (or something like that). 
                                                                          
    
    	-(as I recollect it) Bill
                                              

RE: .16 (Bill)    
    
    People have attempted to repeat this without success.  One perhaps
    successful replication had enclosed the battery being discharged
    (yes, it was actually from a sub), in a plastic balloon filled with
    just a bit of methane -- well it was supposed to be just a bit.
    The thing exploded, destroying the battery and the series of
    experiments.  When the films were routinely developed, however,
    a distinct fireball was seen arcing from the explosion, bouncing
    across the floor and passing both in front of an behind objects.
    Perhaps, it was ball lightning, perhaps a piece of flaming wreckage.
    (I've seen the films, they are quite spectacular, and the ball
    just doesn't seem to move quite like a "material" object, but its
    a bit hard to pin down).
    
    	      			Topher

    
    	Hi Mary Jo,
    
    	Where were you camped? I've heard that the combination of a
    swampy area (methane gas availability) with seismic activity
    within quartz bedrock (electrical potential avaiability) can
    generate the ball lightning. You were'nt awakened by a tremor
    by chance :')?
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    I would agree with "ball lightning" for .0 and the other incidents
    cited here.  As noted ball lighting is little understood, until
    perhaps 20 years ago it was, in fact, "fashionable" in conventional
    scientific circles to deny that it existed.  Lately that has changed.
    
    Another artificial case was produced during (intentional) short
    circuit tests on a high powered dc generator, during installation.
    Tesla reportedly reproduced ball lightning, or at least something
    that looked like it...  Other "simulations", any one of which
    may use the same mechanism as ball lighting, have been done.
    Techniques ranged from combustion of free floating gas clouds to
    microwave techniques.
    
    I suspect ball lighting is rather more common than it appears.
    Coventional lighting is visible to essentially anybody within
    20-100 miles, depending on terrain, etc.  Ball Lightning, on the
    other hand, would be likely visible for less than a mile or so,
    best case.  One of the characteristics of ball lightnig is its
    variability, varying in size, color and effect.  It is possible
    that two (or more) seperate causes are currently lumped together,
    by our ignorance.
    
    Ball lightning, in addition to its technical fascination (at least
    for me...) also provides an opportunity to observe how the
    "scientific community" reacts to events which are rare, and difficult
    to study.  These reactons apply, I believe, to the many of the
    subjects of this file.
    
    (I thought we had a ball lightning note, somewhere, but couldn't
    find it.  I have one technical, and one popular_technical book on
    ball lightning, standard loan offer applies...)
    Thanks
    dave pierson

    (Can't find the note on "lightning from clear sky", plus, these comments
    apply to ball lightning also, so here goes...)
    
    The requirement for electrical potential, both for ball lightning,
    and lightning from a clear sky is more easily met than may be obvious.
    Charge is constantly present between "earth" and air.  This shows
    up as a continually present voltage, which increases as "you" go
    higher, a number around 100 v/meter comes to mind.  There is normally
    little effect, since there isn't enough charge in any one place
    to be noticable.  Similarly, measuring this voltage is a non
    trivial exercise....
    
    There are several well documented cases of people working on roofs
    getting shocked, sometimes severely, without the presence of
    thunderstorms.  Obviously, the case of a thunderstorm, provides
    the most obvious example of much charge in one place.  The
    description above (.-?) of the feelings preceeding the "ball
    lightning" entering the room, the "prickly feeling, hair standing
    on end", is a classic description of being in the presence of a
    high "dc" field (10-100 _thousand_ v/meter).  The breakdown voltage
    of air (_very_ variable, depends on measurement technique...) can
    approach 2 _million_ volts/meter, so 10-100 kv/m is not farfetched...
    
    Usual caveat applies: I am offering, possible explanations, tending
    towards the conventional, as that's what I understand.  No intent
    to discard, without examaination, other explanations.
    
    thanks
    dave pierson