| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 777.1 | MIIIIsssttterrrr Crowley.... | SALEM::AMARTIN | MY AHH DEEDAHS! | Sat Jun 25 1988 04:03 | 4 |
| I have read his Auto, Quabalah 777, and another one, but the name
excapes me at the moment. Very interresting stuff. ODD but
interesting. Also, there were a coulpe of pretty gruesome pics
of him in his later days, evil looking man he was.
|
| 777.2 | A bit over the edge... | FNYHUB::PELLATT | Sheet in, lay back, and *fly* ! | Sat Jun 25 1988 06:39 | 38 |
|
From what I've heard and read ( which I will admit is sparse ) Mr
Crowley was something of an accomplished Magician but held some pretty
warped perspectives on life - definitely on the dark side.
>> Q. Do you folks think he was the "bringer in" of the "New Age"
>> that he claimed/tried(?) to be???
No, he held the darker forces in too much esteem. More credit should go
to A.E. Waite and the members of the Golden Dawn, H.P. Blavatsky etc.
They held much more enlightened and responsible views.
>> Q. What lessons, if any, can be learned from his writings and/or
>> life style??
Don't touch ? (8^)
>> Q. Would the NAM or current-somewhat-accepted-atmosphere-of
>> -alternate-religions have occured without him??
It most certainly would ! It is open, intelligent and inquiring minds
that are driving the NAM ( yukky name ) and acceptance of alternate
religions. Beyond that, remember that the roots of Eastern Mysticism /
Religion go back thousands of years before Christ and even the Buddha.
The "New Age" actually involves nothing "New" other than a more
widespread acceptance of the most ancient ideas.
>> the early bird
get's back to the beach in time for the surf ??? I'm gone...(8^)
Dave.
|
| 777.3 | but...but...but.. | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | | Sat Jun 25 1988 07:41 | 37 |
|
Re: .1
> Evil looking man he was...
yea but he probably died with a smile on his face!
Re: .2
Ref the Golden Dawn (GD).
But wasn't Crowley associated with the GD for some time? I know
ol'Reguardi<sp?> was Crowleys personal secretary for some time.
I believe Crowley left his imprint on the GD. (how much is a subject
of dispute)
Ref. > Dont touch?
But perhaps observing someone like Mr. C by reading will cease
any child-like impulses to go for excessive amounts of excess?
I also think some of his "little personal experiments" can really
help you take a look at yourself IF altered in ways to keep
the meaning of the lesson whole while changing the means in
which you achieved it? does that sound confusing? If you want
Ill write down an example??
>>> Would NAM ...ect..have occured without him?
> It most certainly would...
But...Dont we sometimes need radicals to soften up the
conservitives enough to accept the moderates? (did I just say that?)
If so did Mr. C. Contribute to this??? to what degree??
Craig
|
| 777.4 | More harm than good, perhaps ? | FNYHUB::PELLATT | Sheet in, lay back, and *fly* ! | Sat Jun 25 1988 07:53 | 16 |
|
>> which you achieved it? does that sound confusing? If you want
>> Ill write down an example??
Yeah, I'd be interested... ( what am I doing here on a Saturday ? )
>> But...Dont we sometimes need radicals to soften up the
>> conservitives enough to accept the moderates? (did I just say that?)
>> If so did Mr. C. Contribute to this??? to what degree??
Well Mr C. was certainly a radical ! I do think, however, that he
was the sort of radical to "harden" the conservatives - he gave
a lot of ammo to the "all magic is black" brigade.
Dave.
|
| 777.5 | EXAMPLE | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | | Sat Jun 25 1988 08:57 | 28 |
|
Re: .4
Dave,
Crowley in "Gems of the Equinox" came up with a little test that
required that whenever the person taking the test said the word
"I" he would have to cut his arm with a razor. "how cute." This
was no good for me. Crowley often put little tricks in all his works
and encourged pupils to think for themselves. I pity any poor fool
who did this... Anyway I read of someone who did this test but instead
of slashing away, he bit is thumb. (Not as drastic but it is silly
looking.)
I being a proud coward did even better! Since I write a great
deal of my day away. I substituted an "I" for an "i" in all my
correspondence. You would not believe how agrivating this was and
I am sure that if I used a razor I would have two stubs for arms!
Time and time again I would write "I" only to realize my mistake.
I would then cross out the "I" only to goof up again and put another
"I" in its place! still stupid perhaps but the point got through
to me... That in all "the first person" does and or thinks the
"first person does it from the inside out. Alter this perception
from time to time and you will see things in a very different
and sometimes helpfull way.
sincerly,
Craig-who-cant-stand-PAIN!
|
| 777.6 | | FNYHUB::PELLATT | A small ship with big sail... | Sat Jun 25 1988 09:51 | 5 |
| Craig,
Hmm, as you say "cute"...interesting though.
Thanks, Dave, sorry, um, dave.
|
| 777.7 | He liked the title, "Wickedest Man in the World." | MARKER::KALLIS | Don't confuse `want' and `need.' | Mon Jun 27 1988 08:45 | 37 |
| Re .0 (Craig):
> Q. Do you folks think he was the "bringer in" of the "New Age"
> that he claimed/tried(?) to be???
No.
> Q. What lessons, if any, can be learned from his writings and/or
> life style??
Hard to say. Most people who were close to him ended up the woprst
from the association.
> Q. Would the NAM or current-somewhat-accepted-atmosphere-of
> -alternate-religions have occured without him??
My feelings on the validity of the "NAM" are well-known. Otherwise,
yes.
> Q. would anyone care to add which book by Mr C. they have read
> and have liked or disliked and why?
I have read several. There is no doubt that the man was not stupid,
but if you take any Crowley book at face value, you don't understand
what he was about.
Re .3 (also Craig):
>Re: .1
>> Evil looking man he was...
>
> yea but he probably died with a smile on his face!
Actually, his last words were, "I am perplexed." I doubt he was
smiling when he said them.
Steve Kallis, Jr.
|
| 777.8 | interested! | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | | Mon Jun 27 1988 08:57 | 11 |
|
RE. .7
Steve.
What book did you get the "Perplexed" from?
sounds like good reading!
Craig
|
| 777.9 | since you ask ... | MARKER::KALLIS | Don't confuse `want' and `need.' | Mon Jun 27 1988 09:19 | 9 |
| Re .8 (Craig):
Oboy! I read that one 25 years ago. I believe it was from _The
Great Beast_ by Daniel Mannix, which was one of many bios of Crowley.
My copy was borrowed years ago, and (this is why I seldom lend out
books) has yet to be returned.
Steve Kallis, Jr.
|
| 777.10 | "You read too much Crowley" he told me | RAINBO::HARDY | | Mon Jun 27 1988 11:06 | 53 |
| I have read the following books by Mr. Crowley.
Magic in Theory and Practice
The Book of Lies
Liber Aleph
The Law is For All (Liber Al)
Gems from the Equinox
Diary of a Drug Fiend
Moonchild
The Magical Record of the Beast 666
The Magical Diaries of Aleister Crowley
The Confessions of Aleister Crowley
Liber 777
The Vision and the Voice
I have _not_ read John Symonds' THE GREAT BEAST, which I think is the
bio referred to in 777.9 (I could be wrong, of course). However, I did
read THE EYE IN THE TRIANGLE, another bio, by his personal secretary
Israel Regardie.
Mr. Crowley was no ordinary weirdo. He was a fair poet, a readable
mystical philosopher, a drug addict, a mountain climber of some skill,
a bigot and a misogynist, fairly well educated, and the son of
religious fanatics. He oscillated wildly between brilliance and
destructiveness.
Some of his associates and disciples went on to pursue the "Great
Work", and organizations devoted to his philosophy exist today, notably
the Ordo Templi Orientis and the New Reformed Orthodox Order of the
Golden Dawn. Others simply went mad or died trying to match his
recreational habits, which were interesting, but are not recommended.
His works had almost no effect during his lifetime. One of his best
known works, co-authored with Lady Freida Harris, was not published
until the Sixties -- the Book of Thoth tarot deck. (And that is also
how I became aware of Crowley -- examining the Thoth deck one Saturday
morning in downtown Maynard, former home of "The Alchemist" bookshop,
in 1975.)
He was not the Prophet of the New Age. However, I would say that his
works influenced some peripherally involved in the laying of the
foundation. See the cover of the Beatles' SGT PEPPERS' LONELY HEARTS
CLUB BAND album, among other things.
He took many names as magical mottos. One of these was Frater
Perdurabo, said to be derived from a Latin pun -- "I will endure until
the end, for at the end there is naught to endure."
I'm sure his karma caught up with him.
Pat Hardy
|
| 777.11 | roots? | ILLUSN::SORNSON | Please adjust your set. | Mon Jun 27 1988 15:57 | 6 |
| re -.1
> ... the son of religious fanatics.
What religion were they?
|
| 777.12 | roots, answered (I think) | SCAVAX::AHARONIAN | | Mon Jun 27 1988 16:44 | 13 |
| re .11
If my memory serves me correctly, Aleister's parents were
definitely Christian in faith, and (I think), worshiped in a Anglican
church.
In the Just_thought_I'd_point_it_out_category: Interesting to _note_
that this topic is number 777, which is exactly 111 up from 666,
which is Aleister's favorite number (he claimed his mother called
him "the Beast")
I'm sure every mother called their children "beasts" but Aleister
took it to heart! :^)
|
| 777.13 | A.C. _signed_ himself "666" | MARKER::KALLIS | Don't confuse `want' and `need.' | Mon Jun 27 1988 16:56 | 17 |
| Re .12:
>In the Just_thought_I'd_point_it_out_category: Interesting to _note_
>that this topic is number 777, which is exactly 111 up from 666,
>which is Aleister's favorite number ...
... and _777_ is the title of one of his books.
> ... (he claimed his mother called him "the Beast")
Actually, his mother said something on the order of, "You're like
the great berast in the Bible. In the Book of Revelations."
Little Aleister looked it up and liked what he read. The rest is
history....
Steve Kallis, Jr.
|
| 777.14 | 7X2 | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | | Tue Jun 28 1988 04:53 | 38 |
|
Re: .11
I bleieve Aleisters Daddy was a wealthy "Puritan" minister.
I also remember that he got the money for his travels and adventures
from the estate left to him by his parents. (an amount of approx
$100,000.00 which was quite a bit in those days.)
I also have heard that the House/Castle that he used to life
in is currently for sale for a cool 1.5 Million. (want to all chip
in? it would be an interesting place for a DEJAVU get together?)
Re: .10
I have heard that his Heroin Addiction was due to the
fact that Heroin was used at that time as a treatment for Asthma?
and at times he would go "Cold Turkey" for about 6 months in order
to utilize the "energy" produced from withdraw?
Also Pat...You wouldn't know anyone who has, or has seen a complete
set of the Equinox have you??? I doubt I could afford a set but
would like to "just look".
I also have documentation saying that Crowley was influenced
by someone of the name of "George Pickingill" who was in his time
a bit more "energetic" than Crowley. He (Old George) supposedly
started several covens in England. any folks have info on him???
Ill dig at home and see what I can re-find.
Ref A.C. "Recreational Habits" Yes, it does seem that Mr. C.
was largely made up of Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll,
(without the Rock & Roll)
And Pat! My you have read a bit!! seems to be more like a Lust
than a Love with you! ;-)
well...Wisdom or Folly..."who knows?"
Craig
|
| 777.15 | Page-ing Crowley-ers | BTO::BEST_G | | Wed Jun 29 1988 14:17 | 10 |
|
Anyone read anything to the effect of Jimmy Page(guitarist for Led
Zeppelin) having bought Crowley's house at one time? Or is this
just an old Hit Parader tale?
Guy_who_is_trying_to_improve_his_reading_matter.
|
| 777.16 | Not a very good model | DECWET::MITCHELL | The Cosmic Anchovy | Wed Jun 29 1988 19:20 | 10 |
| I have read very little about Mr. Crowley, but from what I have
read he loved violence, may have committed at least one murder,
had two teeth filed to a point so that he could give women the
"serpent's kiss" (one of whom almost died of blood poisoning) and
billed himself as "The Most Evil Man in the World." If this is
true, why would anyone want to honor such a person by using him
as an example? After all, one should judge a tree by the fruit
it bears...
John M.
|
| 777.17 | 10+7 | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | | Thu Jun 30 1988 03:29 | 28 |
|
Re: .16
> After all, one should judge a tree by the fruit it bares.
A person involved with Crowley might flap his wings with this
and say the same thing about Christ and Muhammad pointing to the
suffering, and war ect. that the world has gone through in the
names of both of them.(PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM PLAYING DEVILS ADVOCATE
ON THIS ONE!!)
I also agree that it is inappropriate (silly) to honor ANY
human being by using that person as an example.
Mr C. has more stories about him that there are about Paul Bunyan
and Babe, a good number of which he probably started. But As time goes
on I am sure the facts will get more and more cloudy. ;-)
RE: .15 Jimmy Page
Thats the fellow who is selling the house mentioned in .14
but I heard that it was for sale while listening to the radio.
early to bed &
early to rise...
Craig
|
| 777.18 | | FSLENG::JOLLIMORE | For the greatest good... | Thu Jun 30 1988 09:15 | 25 |
| .* (All)
I know nothing of Alister Crowley and have read none of his books.
.17 (Craig)
> ... say the same thing about Christ and Muhammad pointing to the
> suffering, and war ect. that the world has gone through in the
> names of both of them.
I can't recall stories of either Christ or Muhammad killing anyone, or
billing themselves as 'the most evil person in the world' or whatever.
> (PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM PLAYING DEVILS ADVOCATE
> ON THIS ONE!!)
So noted!
> I also agree that it is inappropriate (silly) to honor ANY
> human being by using that person as an example.
I disagree in that there are many humans who serve as great examples of
how to live as a human. Some are honored, some live and die unnoticed.
Jay
|
| 777.19 | Master of mind-zap and head games. | PBSVAX::COOPER | Topher Cooper | Thu Jun 30 1988 11:45 | 14 |
| From what I have read of Crowley, his philosophy had much in common
with the later surrealists. He believed that in order to grow one
had to be shaken out of one's preconceptions -- to be born one must
first die. He delighted in disrupting others thoughts and making
them uncomfortable. He lied a lot, and used words, like "evil"
in ideosyncratic ways.
There is a lot I don't like about Crowley, and have never delved
into his writing much. But if these claims about his philosophy
are true, it is rather easy to judge him much too harshly on the
basis of his own pronouncements and stories which, in some cases
at least, he started.
Topher
|
| 777.20 | left-handed but in his right mind! | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | | Fri Jul 01 1988 03:37 | 53 |
|
Re: .10
Pat-
Re-reading this one I got a tad confused...
>organizations devoted to his philosophy exist today, notably...
> New Reformed Orthodox order of the Golden Dawn.
OK I give up... I thought the GD was around before Crowley?
and "supposedly" had its roots connected with the Rosicrucians??
I admit the GD had to be influenced by Crowley but "devoted to
his Philosophy"? please explain.
Re: .18
>> I cant recall stories of either Christ or Muhammad killing anyone
>> or billing themselves...ect..
Thats funny, i cant recall the stories either! What i believe
was said was...
>>> The suffering...ect..the world has gone through in the NAMES
>>> of both of them.
>> I disagree in that there are many humans who serve as great examples
>> of how to live as a human.
well, we disagree on this one...
There are/have been many wonderful people in the world and I
think it is silly for me to model my life after someone else no
matter how great when my personal attributes or "gifts" might be
in some other area. How silly for someone to halt there skills in
one area and strive to do wonders in an area that I am unable to
do well in! By doing am I not mocking the person I am trying to
honor? The person I am honoring and using as an example has used
their individual qualities to the best of their ability while I,
in trying to follow their example, have limited my abilities in
an attempt to be someone I am not.
STORY TIME WITH UNCLE CRAIG
A White Dwarf was awe-struck when he saw the Red Giant and said
that he would use the Red Giant as an example through life! But
the White Dwarf only fustrated himself by trying and in the end
mocked his creator for not using the abilities/qualities he was given.
(he wasn't the star he could/should have been.)
twinkle,twinkle!
Craig!
|
| 777.21 | like a "new antique"? | MARKER::KALLIS | Anger's no replacement for reason | Fri Jul 01 1988 08:54 | 13 |
| Re .20 (Craig):
>> New Reformed Orthodox order of the Golden Dawn.
>
> OK I give up... I thought the GD was around before Crowley?
Well, it was, and Crowley impacted it; however, after his departure
it went along and its people modified Crowley's influence.
However, I'm bemused by the thought of a "new reformed orthodox"
anything. How do you do that? :-)
Steve Kallis, Jr.
|
| 777.22 | | FSLENG::JOLLIMORE | For the greatest good... | Fri Jul 01 1988 11:50 | 9 |
| .20 (Craig)
re: JC, M & AC ... I understand your point and where we differ.
re: Role models ... yep, we disagree.
It's ok to disagree, from what I hear ... ;')
Jay
|
| 777.23 | Prime time: 2+(3*7) | RAINBO::HARDY | | Fri Jul 01 1988 12:14 | 16 |
| Re .20 -
Yes, the Golden Dawn itself preceded Aleister Crowley, but the original
orginization broke up due to power struggles (in which Crowley
particpated).The NROOGD, so far as I know, was organized by Israel
Regardie, also a member of the original Golden Dawn, and from reading
the books written by some members, it has been very much influenced by
the better parts of Crowley's philosophy -- perhaps it is too much to
say they are devoted to it. I stand corrected, Craig.
Re .21
Steve, bemusement is part of the trip.
Pat
|
| 777.24 | (6+6+6+6) (here I am!) | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | | Mon Jul 04 1988 02:36 | 14 |
|
for anyone who cares to know...
the address of the NROOGD or GD is...
Golden Dawn Temple and Society
2210 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 295
Santa Monica, CA 90403
They offer a correspondence course but I havn't tried it. Has
anyone here tried it? was it any good? was it any fun?
Craig Tiphereth
|
| 777.25 | Crowley's death | SHRBIZ::WAINE | Linda | Tue Jul 05 1988 12:03 | 13 |
|
I, personally, would stay away from anything to do with Crowley.
I think that he was a very evil man.
One story I had heard was that while he was ill and about to die,
Crowley's doctor decided to try and take him off morphine. (I
think the doctor thought that it might improve Crowley's condition...)
Crowley demanded to be put back on morphine, but the doctor refused.
Crowley told the doctor that if he died in pain, the doctor would
be dead within 24 hours of Crowley's death. Well, Crowley died in
pain,... and the doctor died the next day.
Linda
|
| 777.26 | Voodoo works best on those that believe in it | RAINBO::HARDY | | Tue Jul 05 1988 12:25 | 7 |
| Re .25
If more people had that kind of influence with their doctors we
wouldn't need malpractice law.
Pat
|
| 777.27 | (3X3X3) | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | | Wed Jul 06 1988 02:39 | 9 |
| ref
.25 (oh no! not another Crowley Story!)
nice doctor! "gee, this guy is in pain and is dying!
might as well put him through withdraw too!"
Knowing Crowleys reputation I find the doctors actions
similar to parting a dying child from his teddy-bear.
Craig
|
| 777.28 | 4+4+4+4+4+4+4 (from the perfect void) | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | | Wed Jul 06 1988 08:42 | 8 |
|
and further-more
.26 and .25
If more people believed and used that kind of influence we
wouldn't need doctors! ;')
craig
|
| 777.29 | mumble,mumble,mumble | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | | Wed Aug 17 1988 05:49 | 47 |
|
I have a xerox copy of a publication by "WICCAN PUBLICATIONS" called
"'Old George' Pickingill and the Roots of Modern Witchcraft by LUGH"
there is a date inside that says Nov 82 but thats it??
The reason I brought this up is due to the fact that a large
part of this paper is dedicatd to Crowley and his association with
Gerald Gardner, Allan Bennett, and George Pickingill.
Not many people have heard of George Pickingill so ill share
what I can about him. George was Born in the early 1800's and was
a starter of 9 covens. He was also called The Witch-Master of Canewdon.
His family held to traditions peculiar to East Anglia, with a mixture
of Scandinavian and French influence plus native Celto-Saxon tradition.
This particular Hereditary strain was the one in which Gardner and
Crowley followed.
It appears that Crowley was associated with these covens because
of Allan Bennett (of GD fame) and George P. It seems that George
had quite a reputation. In his time he was considered to be the
worlds greatest living authority on Witchcraft, Satanism and Black
Magic. Old George devoted his life to the destruction of Christianity
and the restoration of the "Old Religion". He freely gave his magical
expertise to Witches, Satanists, Rosicrucians and Cerimonial Magicians.
He believed that by promoting Satanism he was ensuring the destruction
of the church.
George was considered to be very powerful and it is assumed
that Crowley only joined his coven to get closer to George. It is
also interesting to note the Crowley was allegedly expelled from the coven
due to the fact he could not attend regularly and because "he was
a pervert!" (THE GREAT BEAST John Symonds pg.23 cited as a Ref.)
It is interesting to wonder how much input George and his "star
pupil" Allan Bennett had on the young Crowley.
These papers go on to say that after Gardener went "public"
with "A Goddess Arrives" and his other books a massive attempt to
discredit Crowley and Hide George went on. and separate Crowley
from Gerald at all costs. (around 1950) and deprive Gardner of a
background. But it is interesting to note that the "Book of Shadows"
a book detailing Gardeners rites is written in Crowleys handwriting.
Does anyone have any info to clarify who George was
or in which way Aleister influenced witchcraft
today?
|
| 777.30 | | NEXUS::MORGAN | Snazzy Personal Name Upon Request | Sun Oct 23 1988 22:33 | 6 |
| Reply to .14, Craig,
I think Alister got his heroin habit by using it to "cure" the let
down of his cocaine habit. One drug to go up and another to let
him off. This is from Robert Anton Wilsons' "Sex and Drugs". (What
a title. What a title!)
|
| 777.31 | interesting and nothing more | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | DO WHAT THOU WILT | Mon Oct 24 1988 05:43 | 8 |
|
Just an interesting sideline....Note 777 in DEJAVU (where you are
now) is on Aleister C. and how people perceive him.
Note 777 in CHRISTIAN is on Jesus C. and how people perceive him.
?
Craig
|
| 777.32 | for those into reincarnation ... | FLASH1::KALLIS | Anger's no replacement for reason. | Mon Dec 05 1988 16:28 | 13 |
| A little postscript:
I read in a humor publication of esoteric stuff the following advice
--
"Never claim you're a reincarnation of Aleister Crowley unless
you're sure the person you're standing next to isn't."
Oddly, Crowley believed he was, among other things, a reincarnation
of the 19th Century mystic Eliphas Levi. Two more divergent
personalities studying esoteric knowledge would be hard to imagine.
Steve Kallis, Jr.
|
| 777.33 | | NEXUS::MORGAN | Snazzy Personal Name Upon Request | Mon Dec 05 1988 16:59 | 2 |
| Just found the Alister Crowly Scrapbook. It should be at a local
Distribution Center for the Occult Concerns near you.
|
| 777.34 | who is who | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | DO WHAT THOU WILT | Thu Dec 08 1988 06:10 | 8 |
|
RE: .32
Gee, now you got me thinking.....(not very seriously)...who/what
has Aleister reincarnated into?
Craig ;-)
|
| 777.35 | | WILLEE::VOLKLE | | Thu Dec 08 1988 09:48 | 8 |
| re. 34
> Gee, now you got me thinking.....(not very seriously)...who/shat
has Aleister reincarnated into?
Why, Geraldo Riveria, of course!
;-) Barbara
|
| 777.36 | had more karma to deal with than I imagined! | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | DO WHAT THOU WILT | Fri Dec 09 1988 02:34 | 6 |
|
re. .35
how could anyone deserve that!
craig
|
| 777.37 | %^) | HSSWS1::GREG | Malice Aforethought | Sun Dec 18 1988 23:32 | 5 |
| re: .35
No, I'M the real Aleister Crowley reincarnate! So's my dog!
- Greg
|
| 777.38 | any unwanted dusty, unwanted books? | USACSB::CBROWN | eating jellied Newts | Sat Feb 25 1989 03:47 | 6 |
|
anyone out there in terminal land have a unwanted copy of Magick
Without Tears for sale or barter?
thanks!
|
| 777.39 | Lazaris mentioned this guy last weekend | MISERY::WARD_FR | Going HOME--as an Adventurer | Thu Jun 29 1989 17:07 | 15 |
| Another bit that came through the Lazaris 2-day workshop I attended
last weekend (entitled "Becoming the Alchemist: The Transformation
Experience") is a brief mention of Aleister Crowley. Briefly,
Lazaris, in talking about the four tasks (responsibilities) of being
an alchemist, said that if a person refuses the commitment he/she will
either lose the ability to be an alchemist or will go crazy with it.
Such was the case with Aleister, who started off well and then went
off the deep end. As Lazaris reminded us, the difference between
genius and insanity is a fine line. The person who is a genius is
conscious, pays attention, is able to process, unlike the insane.
Being an alchemist carries with it a responsibility that many often
don't really wish to take on.
Frederick
|
| 777.40 | did someone say four? | USACSB::CBROWN | Huggieboo | Fri Jun 30 1989 02:25 | 13 |
|
Hmmmm.. and I am just starting to re-read BOOK 4. ;-) I am interested,
what are the four responsibilities/tasks? (Not that I will read your
reply.) "He started off well" hmmm.. thats neat.. I wonder where
he screwed up? He seemed pretty consistant with himself to me but
then again Lazaris was there and I wasn't. ;-) I would imagin the
turning point for Aleister was when he started writing his thoughts
down about channels. (chuckle chuckle)
Take care,
Craig ;-)
|
| 777.41 | Four is a power of Two | TANIS::HARDY | | Fri Jul 07 1989 14:23 | 6 |
| Re .38 (Frederick)
Well, don't keep us in suspense. What are these duties of the alchemist?
Are they the powers of the Sphinx?
Pat
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| 777.42 | Back by popular demand? | TANIS::HARDY | | Fri Jul 07 1989 14:26 | 15 |
|
Be that as it may, I've heard a rumor that Sam Weiser plans to re-publish
THE EQUINOX, the encyclopedic journal of mystical poetry, book reviews,
short stories, satire and magical instruction written by Crowley & his
associates.
It will supposedly be re-issued as a set of paperbacks sometime in the
next twelve months.
The previous edition, a hardcover set published in 1972, now fetchs from
$666 to $1000 used.
Wherever Crowley is, I'm sure he's laughing like the proverbial hyena.
Pat
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| 777.43 | Crowley off the deep end ? | OZROCK::GIBBONS | Clear day, some icebergs sighted, maintaining speed
| Thu Jul 13 1989 00:46 | 23 |
|
Why does Lazaris think that Crowley went off the deep end? Most of the
people who knew Crowley well didn't judge him as crazy. I have never
read this in any of the books by Kenneth Grant nor in any comment by
Israel Regardie (who was a Reichian therapist).
If you were anti-christian, bisexual, believed that 'the current of
freemasonry was dead' and were willing to shout this from the rooftops
in the England of Crowley's day then you could expect some criticism.
You could expect to be called a lunatic! The pity is that today people
remember the social criticism and don't evaluate it in terms of todays
standards. If you said this today you would probably go unnoticed!
Crowley delighted in making public statements that were superficially
outrageous but had an inner meaning for those who had the background
to understand them.
It would be interesting to speculate on how much of the current liberal
attitude to other religious/spiritual movements is due to Crowley's
behaviour.
/john
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| 777.44 | I know little about Crowley. | MISERY::WARD_FR | Going HOME--as an Adventurer | Thu Jul 13 1989 12:32 | 32 |
| re: .43 (John)
I don't know why Lazaris said so...I suppose it was because he
considers Crowley as one who had it within his grasp to "do well" (my
term) but failed. By that I mean he left his spiritual potential
unrealized (though clearly he kept his metaphysical reality alive.)
As Lazaris was defining alchemy to us (as coming from Egypt--"magic of
the land of black earth") as an art of change (transmuting-changing
from a form to a like but more useful form; tranformation-changing
from one form to another which is more valuable; trancendence-changing
from one form to another which is both more useful and more valuable,)
he told us that real alchemy was to tranform personal power to both
social and global power. Power, consciousness, state of being are more
valuable to us *and* to the world.
I will NOT go into many of the details of the workshop, for
reasons of my own, but I will recount a very limited portion by
listing, very briefly, the Tasks of commitment-(responsibilities
of being an alchemist) according to Lazaris:
1. Honor the tradition of alchemy and magic of which it is a part.
Hold the resonance personally, socially and globally "I am, in
my way, responsible for my society. Where is my light needed?"
Not by telling people, but by holding the resonance.
2. Honor the love-upholding the intimacy and the realness.
3. Honor *your* spirituality-by being more and more conscious of
your relationship to God/Goddess/All-That-Is.
4. Honor the gift of power-by being responsible with how it's used
and how it's shared. Share it only with those who earn the trust.
Consequence is that you'll lose the power.
Frederick
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| 777.45 | | CSC32::MORGAN | Celebrating the Cybernetic Age. | Thu Jul 13 1989 13:01 | 7 |
| Within our cozy hutches of 20/20 hindsight we tend to see somethings
and ignore.
I think Crowley and Leary and other such persons are years ahead of
their time. It's only years later their works are appreciated.
I deeply appreciate both their works.
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| 777.46 | Crowley vs Lazaris | OZROCK::GIBBONS | Clear day, some icebergs sighted, maintaining speed
| Thu Jul 20 1989 00:16 | 14 |
| Re 44.
Frederick,
I guess that I will have to disagree with Lazaris on Crowley. I believe
that Crowley did very well.
If Crowley's life was a failure then I find it difficult to imagine
what he would have produced if he had succeeded.
Perhaps the Abbey of Thelema would now be the Vatican ;-)
/john
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| 777.47 | ...can't help you much more than this... | WR1FOR::WARD_FR | Trekking HOME--As an Adventurer | Thu Jul 20 1989 13:47 | 23 |
|
re: .46 (John)
You are free to disagree, of course. Since not much more
than what I wrote was said, it's up to speculation to know exactly
what Lazaris meant. And my experience with Lazaris is that each
of us hears different things from him. For me, the message was
that Crowley went crazy, started off well but abnegated his
responsibilities and had consequences for doing so. Many among
us are considered "successful" by others, yet apparently don't
feel that way themselves (e.g. Marilyn Monroe, John Lennon,
George Saunders, etc.) Or, conversely, feel successful themselves
but aren't seen that way by others (e.g. Hitler, Atilla the Hun,
Jim Jones, etc.) I don't know any more about Crowley than what
has been written in this notesfiles, and I haven't read all this
stuff word-for-word, either. So I don't know what sort of view
Crowley had of himself or the world. I *do* know that he had
many wonderful insights into the world of metaphysics...that's
all I can say.
Frederick
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| 777.48 | Process=Growth | DECATR::GREEN_TA | EXPLORING WITH INTENT | Thu Jul 20 1989 17:35 | 18 |
| I would tend to interpret Lazaris' comments on Crowley, not that
he was a failure, but that he became obsessed/caught in a phase
that he didn't move forward from - he became entrapped in it.
Each life we experience is a process - and our opinion or someone
else's opinion (of our process) does not determine the goodness
or badness - the right or wrongness. There is a purpose to the
process, and when the current life experience has ran its gamut
- it dies - and there is a rebirth - and another process to be
experienced.
And I have not doubt that Crowley has learned and grown from his
past `exposures' - and that he will offer interesting _material_
for our analysis in the future.
IMHO
tj
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| 777.49 | Bad Video's | DNEAST::CHRISTENSENL | | Thu Jul 20 1989 19:34 | 9 |
| re .48
not bad. gets my vote!
And I suggest, it is a process of sorts. Though it may not be popular
to say it: just how many billions of souls are going to do Hitler
and like tapes before we get the hint?
L.
Hint: it is not necessary.
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| 777.50 | ...and what about the shooting script? | LEDS::BATES | Sulla cresta dell onda | Thu Jul 20 1989 23:14 | 10 |
|
L:
An even less popular idea/hypothesis - perhaps, just perhaps Hitler did
Hitler so that the rest of us *would* get the hint...
Gloria
PS - in the new musical version of Dante's Inferno, I'll bet Hitler is
arm-in-arm with Judas and Lucifer...
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| 777.51 | Crowley in Scotland | KIRKTN::GAITKENHEAD | | Mon Oct 16 1989 12:37 | 20 |
| Crowley's house (as mentioned in some previous notes) is called
BOLESKINE and is situated on the banks of Loch NESS !!!!
Jimmy page bought the house and as far as I know still owns it. Jimmy
page is also a Crowley fanatic and has someone working for him full
time looking for original Crowley book's, artifacts, etc. He also
commisioned an artist to paint a Black Sabbath scene onto on of the
inside walls (Creepy or what ?)
I have saw the house from the drive gate and it is a house that
instantly fills you with dread. (maybe because I know what went on
inside ?)
I have'nt read any of his book's but hope to purchase a copy of MAGICK
from my bookclub.
George.
PS I'll try to make enquires as to who actually owns the house at the
moment.
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| 777.52 | Acausally connected | BTOVT::BEST_G | Walking this dream everlasting | Mon Oct 16 1989 15:08 | 9 |
|
This is from the Police's "Synchronicity II":
"Many miles away there's a shadow on the door
of a cottage on the shore of a dark Scottish lake..."
Thought it kinda related.
Guy
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