| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 731.1 | Oops! | BIGSUR::GRAFTON_JI | | Thu May 05 1988 21:23 | 8 |
| re: 731.0
oops---The bit about the earthquake was supposed to have a winking
face after it ;-)
But--then again--maybe I should wait until the 11th!!
Jill
|
| 731.2 | They "MIGHT" have something you need!! | USRCV1::JEFFERSONL | Jesus cares for you! | Fri May 06 1988 14:53 | 8 |
| Re:0
Your two friends: Have you seen them lately? If so, what are
they doing now, in life? Are they 'Spiritually' incline, or, were
they, when you knew them?
Lorenzo
|
| 731.3 | Not that I'm aware of | BIGSUR::GRAFTON_JI | | Fri May 06 1988 17:18 | 19 |
|
No, I haven't seen my friends in the last 10 years and that was
just to chat with them for a few minutes. I am going back to my
hometown in about 6 weeks, though, and since they both live in the
area, there's a good chance I will see them again.
We were never very close so I don't really know if they are spiritually
inclined or not (or if they ever have been).
One side development of this dream is that I am *definitely* less
antagonistic towards my SO's daughter. I'm beginning to appreciate
what she has to offer more instead of being overly critical. This
is just a small step and has been a long time in coming, but it
is some improvement. If nothing else, the dream is helping
me look at her in a new light and I'm very appreciative for that.
Jill
|
| 731.4 | weird thoughts | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | | Sat May 07 1988 07:30 | 42 |
|
just some thoughts...
i dont know you at all but ill put down what i have avoided
putting down since i put saw this and if something clicks for
you good. if it doesn't at least if gotten rid of the fustration
of wondering if this is worth writing or not.
I think/feel/? that you might have been going through a time of
unpleasant emotions around you. The area/space around you was ok
and stable but something is happening somewhere that is confusing
you. (does this make any sense to you?) (if so please explain?)
The quick run around the house could signify you seeing another
side of you. Perhaps there was a "you" that was left back at your
hometown which is still part of you. a part or stage that you feel
you didn't complete and feel sorry that you had to leave it behind
incomplete?
Are you going to start a possibly awkward emotional task/situation
in the near future? if so you might have to look back to the past
experiances/relationships/youth to find helpful ways to deal with
it.
Things spinning sometimes mean travel/motion but the apple
could be you... the bottom half-people rarely see. the inside-only
you know about. The seeds are ideas/energies you possibly need to
start growing and have possibly been hiding inside yourself.
The STAR... the beauty that will result from opening those
ideas/energies up to a turbulant/spinning world.
What do you think?
Craig,
p.s. this is completely insane but...perhaps it is just a connection
i am subconciously<sp?> getting and that is....the words...
"WHAT DOES BONNIE HAVE TO DO WITH THIS!"
sincerly.
?????????????
|
| 731.5 | A Possible Answer | BORIKN::ESPOSITO | | Sat May 07 1988 16:47 | 35 |
| Jill:
Dreams are amazing vehicles conveying messages about ourselves from
deep within/without to the concious level more often than not
in a cryptic fashion. They can also be the link to another realm
(spiritual) or a result of pickles, pastrami, mustard on Rye before
bed.
All kidding aside there are elements in what you say that allude
to something more personal than prophetic that is trying to be
expressed.
I would like to elaborate but first would like to be able to ask
you some questions before I offer my "informed opinion".
Reply, if you would be willing to answer some others that are not
written herein.. Nothing "unusual" or out of place I assure you.
Before signing off . . . are you contemplating or undergoing any major
change in your life, i.e. a move from one house to another, family
restructuring (relationship wise)?
Are you confronted with a decision a very sensitive one that you
have been thinking about lately? If so is it one based on a
relationship you are in, or are contemplating initiating?
Do you remember if there were any tree's that you saw as ran around
the house, if so were they bare or did they have leaves?
Sorry to sound so Freudian but there may be an explanation in this
line of questioning that does not necessarily base itself on something
from the "beyond".
|
| 731.6 | I'll get back to you later today. | BIGSUR::GRAFTON_JI | | Tue May 10 1988 13:27 | 12 |
| re: .4 and .5
I have read your replies and want to answer them fully--I should
be able to respond to both of them by later this afternoon or early
evening.
Just one quick answer, though: I'm afraid I don't know any Bonnie.
(At least not yet!)
I'll answer them fully later today. Thanks,
Jill
|
| 731.7 | I'll Be Checking In | BORIKN::ESPOSITO | | Tue May 10 1988 18:13 | 19 |
| Jill:
My name is Richard, I am the author of .5.
I'll be checking in from my modem at home.
My curiosity was aroused as I reviewed what you described as your
dream. I will look forward to reviewing your reply to my
inquiries.
"You will know within if what is revealed (explained) is indeed
valid and relevant."
Regards,
-Richard-
I perhaps will be able to give you some insights both from an intuitive
|
| 731.8 | I'm really intrigued now!! | BIGSUR::GRAFTON_JI | | Tue May 10 1988 21:56 | 163 |
| Finally, I have the time to answer your questions. Taking the day
to think about them has allowed me to look at the feelings that
have stayed with me as opposed to those that just come and go.
re: .4
Craig,
I'll do the best I can to answer your questions:
< I think/feel/? that you might have been going through a time of
< unpleasant emotions around you. The area/space around you was ok
< and stable but something is happening somewhere that is confusing
< you. (does this make any sense to you?) (if so please explain?)
My life within the last 6 months has taken on a stability that I had only
dreamed of earlier. Prior to that, I had about 5 (seemingly endless) years
of turmoil. Sometimes, I find myself pleasantly surprised to see that things
are going *so* well for me. I don't feel like this is the calm before the
storm, either. I feel like I have found proof of my ability to create a
wonderful environment around me--and since I am a believer of "you create
your own reality", I'm delighted. If anything, I'm probably amazed at my
success with this belief.
< The quick run around the house could signify you seeing another
< side of you. Perhaps there was a "you" that was left back at your
< hometown which is still part of you. a part or stage that you feel
< you didn't complete and feel sorry that you had to leave it behind
< incomplete?
I could relate to this question. I have left something back in my home town:
Me as a child. My folks are still there and they still seem able to draw up
some of the same parent/child feelings. In fact, now that you mention it, I
just remembered a dream I had about a month ago in which I was *very* angry
with my parents and yelled at them "You can't control my life anymore!" In that
dream I said good-bye to all those people that I felt controlled my life.
On a personal level, I now feel like I can do things without the controls and
strictures that used to be there. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say that
I feel like *I* can control the forces that affect me. (That is, either I
let them affect me or I do not.)
< Are you going to start a possibly awkward emotional task/situation
< in the near future? if so you might have to look back to the past
< experiences/relationships/youth to find helpful ways to deal with
< it.
In response to this question, I have to say no. The only possible thing
that occurs to me (and has for a bit of time now) is that I think my parents
might die soon. Various dreams of mine and my son's over the past year have
led me to believe that they might die soon. They are healthy and active
(Mom 73/Dad 80) and they informed me this last weekend that they were getting
the cottage ready, scraping and painting the porch, and other normal activities
for them for this time of the year but....with their age, sometimes I wonder.
Maybe this is normal--does anyone else have ideas about this?
< Things spinning sometimes mean travel/motion but the apple
< could be you... the bottom half-people rarely see. the inside-only
< you know about. The seeds are ideas/energies you possibly need to
< start growing and have possibly been hiding inside yourself.
< The STAR... the beauty that will result from opening those
< ideas/energies up to a turbulent/spinning world.
This could be a tie-in to the YCYOR thoughts I've had for a while now and that
I mentioned above. This is an interesting interpretation and I want to think
more about it. BTW, I am going back home at the end of June.... so "travel
could be in the stars" :-)
< p.s. this is completely insane but...perhaps it is just a connection
< I am subconsciously<sp?> getting and that is....the words...
< "WHAT DOES BONNIE HAVE TO DO WITH THIS!"
Sorry, this means nothing to me at this time.
re: .5
Richard,
Thanks for your replies--I'm interested to see where we go from
here.
< All kidding aside there are elements in what you say that allude
< to something more personal than prophetic that is trying to be
< expressed.
< I would like to elaborate but first would like to be able to ask
< you some questions before I offer my "informed opinion".
< Reply, if you would be willing to answer some others that are not
< written herein.. Nothing "unusual" or out of place I assure you.
OK, I'm game!
< Before signing off . . . are you contemplating or undergoing any major
< change in your life, i.e. a move from one house to another, family
< restructuring (relationship wise)?
No, any major restructuring is done (thank heavens!!) for a while. This last
one was pretty heavy-duty but I'm glad of the changes that came as a result
so I feel no ill-will. In fact, this is the first time my life has been so
stable and enjoyable in at least 5 and 1/2 years. I live in an area that is
particularly healthy (lots of trees, a river, fresh air, birds, and no cement
buildings out the window); I work at a job that is suited to me and that I
really enjoy; and my intimate/family relationships are a joy to me.
If I put all my wishes in a big bowl and all of them were granted to me, I
don't think I could be happier.
< Are you confronted with a decision a very sensitive one that you
< have been thinking about lately? If so is it one based on a
< relationship you are in, or are contemplating initiating?
Nope--on all counts (That I know of, anyway.)
< Do you remember if there were any tree's that you saw as ran around
< the house, if so were they bare or did they have leaves?
Yes, there were trees and it was in the autumn. When my friend met Jennifer
and me, we stood next to a tree while we spoke. A lot of dead leaves were
on the ground and although I did not specifically look at a tree, I get the
impression that they were bare.
< Sorry to sound so Freudian but there may be an explanation in this
< line of questioning that does not necessarily base itself on something
< from the "beyond".
No problem here; I'm interested.
Did I answer the questions clearly? If you have questions, let
me know.
The dream may not mean anything but I'm learning from the discussions alone,
and that's enough for me.
Thanks for your time,
Jill
|
| 731.10 | A Second Look . . . | BORIKN::ESPOSITO | | Wed May 11 1988 08:30 | 86 |
| Jill:
My note 731.9 apparently was lost. I worked quite extensively on
it and can't tell you how frustrated I felt when that happened!
Be that as it may, here I go with a "second look".
First off, I would like you to know, that I consider it a privilege to
be able to share insights on something as personal as a dream with
someone. What I will offer you seems to compliment what already has
been touched upon , interestingly enough.
The tapestry of one's "dreamwork" more often than not reveals
a synthesis, of events, feelings linked to those events or situations
in our lives that we pass through. Many times they are revealed
in a cryptic fashion with their meanings hidden and disguised within
strange and what appears to be "nonsensical" or mystical symbolism.
This not to say by any means, that all dreams are woven unconsciously
towards this end. They can tell us many things about our personal past,
from the point of birth, to where we are at now, and can be the
vehicle through which the spiritual realm seeks to influence and
communicate with the mortal.
Having said all that, I reveiwed your reply and would offer these thoughts:
You mentioned a "blustery wind" was blowing in your dream . . . this
could very well represent the "winds of change". Just as they blow
gustily announcing abrupt and major changes in the seasons as well as
weather, so spiritual "winds of change" blow, announcing impending
changes from one state to another, or one life situation to another, or
they can confirm a change that has already been realized.
The "sliced spinning apple" can certainly signify "new inner knowledge
revealed!" Allegorically we have heard of of the tree that stood in the
midst of the Garden of Eden, whereon was the "fruit of the knowledge of
good and evil". By cutting away no less than half of the apple the tiny
seeds of great potential are revealed! Through loss, or the deliberate
removal (elimination) of a significant area of your life great
potential within you is being revealed for the very first time!
These tiny seeds were seen as a "star" as the apple spun. Most
assuredly those individuals (you) who tap into and cultivate their own
hidden potential shine as stars! Shining stars that symbolize bright
individuality hang suspended in the firmament of life and are admired
by those who see them! You can be and no doubt are such a star. Why
do I say this, because by your own statement, you have declared
that you are happy, content with lot in life, dear Jill, you are
shinning! You also stated that you have "found proof in the knowledge
that you can create your own reality" . . . "proof in the knowledge,
knowledge that was within all along but not revealed, which now
is!
I asked about the "trees" because as I reflected on your dream the
thought occurred to me that there were trees involved and that they
were bare and the perceived season was autumn! A bit uncanny I
admit but it's true, so I can only take that revelation to be a
confirmation of sorts of all that I am sharing herein.
Trees can be symbols of life. Dead leaves represent (though you
mentioned you did not see them nevertheless, you understood they
were there) the remnants of what once, that which has withered and
dryed and lay lifeless before the blustery winds of changes to be
swept away!
It seems to me your dream is a deep inner affirmation of things
that have transpired and to a degree things yet to be.
I look upon what I have shared with you here Jill, to be intensely
personal and subject only to your judgement and analysis, not really
open to speculation. If any of these observations provide insight,
or confirmation on what has or is occurring in and around you it's
obviously for you and you alone say.
Can you or do relate to what I have shared with you thus far?
Who is Jennifer, what is her relationship to you?
Well, this is my second try I hope this won't get lost in the Ethernet!
Good bless . . . note soon
Regards,
-Richard-
|
| 731.11 | cutting down on "lost" replies | VITAL::KEEFE | Bill Keefe - 223-1837 - MLO21-4 | Wed May 11 1988 12:05 | 13 |
| Regarding the comment on notes getting lost in 731.10.
If you think you are going to write a reply which will be longer
than one screen, it might be worth your while to create a text file
on your system and when you're finished editing it, open
the note you were replying to, and issue a REPLY FILE_NAME.TXT.
The file that you edited will then be entered as the next reply
to that note. If the note doesn't get written properly, you have
the text file and can try re-entering it later, cutting down on the
frustration of trying to remember exactly what it was you were trying
to say when a reply gets lost.
- Bill
|
| 731.12 | Gratitude Expressed | BORIKN::ESPOSITO | | Wed May 11 1988 13:29 | 13 |
| Bill:
I would like to thank you very much for the advice.
I am a new Noter and have not yet mastered (understood) the editor
or how to open my own conference and found out the hard way about
losing a hundred or so lines of "inspiration".
Thanks a hundred!
Regards,
-Richard_
|
| 731.13 | | SCOMAN::RUDMAN | Hers,pron. His. | Wed May 11 1988 13:58 | 6 |
| Part II: There are times when I'm writing a reply which turns out
to be 40 lines instead of 4 so I didn't jump out to put it in a VMS
file. When I realize I've stayed in the REPLY buffer overlong I
use Print Screen to have a just-in-case hard copy.
Don
|
| 731.14 | I like your ideas! | BIGSUR::GRAFTON_JI | | Wed May 11 1988 20:25 | 86 |
| Richard,
Thanks for your reply--especially since you took the time to enter it
twice. I appreciate it.
< Through loss, or the deliberate
< removal (elimination) of a significant area of your life great
< potential within you is being revealed for the very first time!
I really hadn't thought of this dream in this way at all--but I do like
this interpretation. Not only do I *like* it, but it feels right. This
is exactly what I feel!! And it feels good!
< I asked about the "trees" because as I reflected on your dream the
< thought occurred to me that there were trees involved and that they
< were bare and the perceived season was autumn! A bit uncanny I
< admit but it's true, so I can only take that revelation to be a
< confirmation of sorts of all that I am sharing herein.
It is uncanny unless we both associate blustery nights with autumn through
more conventional means (like both reading a story that goes "It was a
dark, blustery night in October...." or some such words). However you
arrived at the conclusion, it was a good one to make!
< It seems to me your dream is a deep inner affirmation of things
< that have transpired and to a degree things yet to be.
I can't tell you how much I like what you have said. And it's definitely
more than just *liking* it--it feels right and it gives me a good, calm
feeling inside. It may be wishful thinking, but even if it is, it's still
good stuff!
< Who is Jennifer, what is her relationship to you?
Jennifer is my mate's 7 year old daughter. She lives with us most of the time
since her father has custody of her during the school year. This is the only
aspect of my environment that I would change because, unhappily, I have a
problem with her. At times I think it's a personality conflict, other times
I think it relates to how I was raised, and other times I don't think about
it. I'm trying to not let past experiences influence me so I can just
accept her. I've gone around and around on this so many times that I don't
know what the cause and effect are anymore and I'm just trying to let it be.
I do know that the endless soul-searching helped me come up with some reasons
(good and otherwise) for reacting to her the way I do, but it hasn't solved
the problem and that's what I'm working on now.
Her father (my mate) is kind and understanding and knows we have a problem.
He affirms my actions with her, and compliments me by saying I'm a good
influence on her. He is neither critical nor worried but simply assumes that
we will work it out. If I wish to talk about it, he is more than willing to
listen but does not offer suggestions (and I have asked) because he feels that
I am able to work it out myself. I don't think it's a cop-out on his part;
he exhibits a great deal of trust in both Jennifer and me to work this out.
In a nutshell, the problem is that I am extremely critical of her.
My current strategy is to accept her as she is; I repeat affirmations to
improve the situation, and try to step back when I feel I have an unreasonable
response to something she has said or done. She is a good
person, very intelligent, and is extremely perceptive to the moods and feelings
of my son (who also lives with us). In fact, she goes out of the way to keep
things peaceful for Steven (my son). I admire some of her attributes, too:
she's generous to a fault and a real peace-maker.
(I know this is quite a ways off the original topic, but if anyone has some
suggestions, I would appreciate them. And I'm willing to bet Jennifer would,
too!)
Anyway, having her in the dream was a surprise, too, especially since she was
going to be "contributing" to the psychic effort.
Thanks for your time and your ideas. This discussion has been important
to me. I appreciate it.
Jill
|
| 731.15 | Much, Much, More Than A Dream. | BORIKN::ESPOSITO | | Wed May 11 1988 21:34 | 73 |
|
Jill,
There is nothing more edifying than to be able share something
of ones self with another and have it received.
I suppose it's as much a "spiritual" miracle as it is "technological".
We span (most likely) thousands upon thousands of miles in a twinkle
transmitting impulses that form characters which form words, sentences
and messages and they reach into a heart and a mind and we think
and we reflect . . . of a truth we are all connected.
I am coming to you from the Caribbean area where I have been these
past 14 years.
As I mentioned it seems that the flow now leads to a very real life
situation which you seek to understand, confront and resolve . .
in love.
I would venture to add that; Jennifer is the vehicle which will
help you discover things about yourself you were not aware of before.
I make reference to my analogy of the opened apple and the seeds
representing ". . . new inner knowledge revealed. Through loss,
or deliberate removal (elimination) of a significant area of your
life great potential within you is being recealed for the very first
time."
I submit for your careful consideration that "Love, true, deep real
love is synonymous with sacrafice". No one can truly love another
without it costing the person soemthing. The greatest love manifested
to mankind (in my opinion) is reflected through Jesus Christ. It
cost Him his life.
To get at these seeds of potential knowledge that lie within you
you will have to be willing to cut away a significant part of the
apple. Your old prejudices, your concept of how "Jennifer should
be" or measuring her against your own upbringing and so on. You
will have to sacrafice much of what you are inorder to reach her
in the name of simple love; which gives of itself and asks naught
in return. It's a tall order Jill.
Of a truth, you may never be able to change that "aspect of your life",
the Jennifer factor if you will. In short it will (if you understand
what I am trying to convey) indeed change you, for the better if you
are patient and sensitive. You should attempt to treat the cause (and
understand the reasons why you feel the way you do) instead of reacting
to the symptom.
A child that is "generous to a fault" seeks to please and win
acceptance. You have taken to yourself a child who has fears and
insecurities and whose life to some degree, has been and is actually
fragmented.
It would seem foolish if a sculptor "critisized" a work of art upon
which he himself has done little or no work. In your midst is this
child who is going to (by virtue of being there) reveal things about
yourself to yourself as no other person or situation can. You have an
opportunity to mold her and leave your imprint. True; you did not begin
from scratch with her but she stands before nevertheless.
Love is synonymous with sacrafice. You will have to deny yourself
inorder to see who she really is, what she really needs and what
she can be. In time you will see dimensions of Jill you never
knew existed.
Regards,
-Richard-
|
| 731.16 | ...it's for you! | WRO8A::GUEST_TMP | HOME, in spite of my ego! | Thu May 12 1988 00:34 | 35 |
| I was hoping to stay out of this one, but that last reply is
not something I can walk away from easily, especially since Jill
works 2 floors above me [and is the first female DEJAVU person I've
met.] There are many types of dreams, Jill, and most of them have
very little significance. I urge you to look through the notesfiles
at the many different DREAMS topics. Within them you will find
various analyses and points of view.
While Richard has given you various and potentially useful bits
of "interpretation," not the least of that information is his own
statement informing you that dreams are very individualistic and
unique. Even having the same dream as someone else does not guarantee
an equal interpretation, no more than any two people having identical
interpretations of a shared event.
What disturbs me is that last few paragraphs in (.15.) If you
buy into the concepts of love=sacrifice, then not only will you
be doing yourself a disservice, but you will also be going "against
the grain" with your own expressed belief in creating your own reality.
It is precisely the idea that one must sacrifice, suffer, be punished,
etc., etc., that keeps away the abundance that would otherwise be
there. To give your power away to that concept is indeed a sacrifice
of an enormous magnitude. We have discussed this idea in at least
a couple of other notes...off-hand I cannot remember which ones.
But to reiterate what I have expressed before, the only thing you
need to sacrifice is your own negative ego. THAT's ALL that requires
to be sacrificed. To deny your own feelings, to deny your own ideas,
to deny your own intuitions, etc., would truly be the denial of
love for yourself. And it is only through love of self that you
can grow beyond yourself enough to love someone/thing else. This
is a tangent from the scope of this topic, but I strongly urge you not
to heed the advice given in those last few paragraphs.
Frederick
|
| 731.17 | | GENRAL::DANIEL | We are the otters of the Universe | Thu May 12 1988 11:41 | 7 |
| Ditto, Frederick. Very well-said.
set mode/out on a limb
I didn't even read .15; after seeing a few catch-phrases, I decided I really
didn't want to know what the rest, said. After reading Frederick's response, I
believe I made the right choice.
|
| 731.18 | | WINERY::GRAFTON | | Thu May 12 1988 18:23 | 98 |
| re.15
Richard,
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Here are my thoughts.
< I would venture to add that; Jennifer is the vehicle which will
< help you discover things about yourself you were not aware of before.
This, I have found, is already true! Unfortunately, these are not always
attributes I wish to have!
< I submit for your careful consideration that "Love, true, deep real
< love is synonymous with sacrafice".
This is one area in which we differ: I do not feel that love requires a
sacrifice of any sort. In love, I do not give anything up--I just seem
to receive more.
< To get at these seeds of potential knowledge that lie within you
< you will have to be willing to cut away a significant part of the
< apple. Your old prejudices, your concept of how "Jennifer should
< be" or measuring her against your own upbringing and so on. You
< will have to sacrafice much of what you are inorder to reach her
< in the name of simple love; which gives of itself and asks naught
< in return.
One difference here is that I do not consider giving up my old prejudices,
(or measurements from another place and time) to be a sacrifice. Perhaps
this is just a difference in semantics, but to give up something I do not
choose to keep is not a sacrifice, it's a real pleasure!
< Of a truth, you may never be able to change that "aspect of your life",
< the Jennifer factor if you will.
I prefer to think I can change *any* factor if I wish to. True, I may not
overcome paralysis, but many conditions are worsen or improved by a state of
mind. So Jennifer may always be there, but how I deal with her and the
situation is up to me.
(The "Jennifer Factor"--that's good! I like that :-) )
< You should attempt to treat the cause (and
< understand the reasons why you feel the way you do) instead of reacting
< to the symptom.
This is difficult to consider because of the extensive amount of soul-searching
I have done on this. After looking and looking for a year and a half, and
still not making much progress, I have to believe that my actions here and now
are the ones that are affecting her (and me). And the only way for me to
handle this *at this time* is to carefully do what I can to treat her as
fairly as possible. I may never have real warmth for her, which is okay
because I do not expect close friendship or immediate attraction for every
person I meet. --Something else just broke through when I said that: But
for *some* reason, I did expect closeness from all members of my family. And
it felt "wrong" because my experience did not meet my expectations. Isn't
that funny? I never even knew I had that expectation hiding down there. Well,
that wasn't the first time I've been surprised, and I know it won't be the
last. I just love those flashes of insight!!
< A child that is "generous to a fault" seeks to please and win
< acceptance. You have taken to yourself a child who has fears and
< insecurities and whose life to some degree, has been and is actually
< fragmented.
True, true
< It would seem foolish if a sculptor "critisized" a work of art upon
< which he himself has done little or no work. In your midst is this
< child who is going to (by virtue of being there) reveal things about
< yourself to yourself as no other person or situation can. You have an
< opportunity to mold her and leave your imprint. True; you did not begin
< from scratch with her but she stands before nevertheless.
This is also true.
< Love is synonymous with sacrafice. You will have to deny yourself
< inorder to see who she really is, what she really needs and what
< she can be.
As I said above, this is not for me. Denial of myself is not part of my life
unless it is something that I choose to be free of. And, by definition,
that is not denial to me.
< In time you will see dimensions of Jill you never knew existed.
And this is probably true of all of us--if we're lucky!!
Best wishes,
Jill
|
| 731.19 | | WINERY::GRAFTON | | Thu May 12 1988 18:25 | 23 |
| re: 16
Hi, Frederick
It's been a while since I've spoken with you; it's good to hear from you again.
Thanks for the reply you put in (and you, too, Meredith(?? .17) (Is that your
name? I haven't gotten everyone's first name down yet!)
I'm sure you can see from my last reply that I don't follow the love=sacrifice
belief. I may choose to change or give up parts of my personality that don't
work for me the way I want or expect them to, but I don't define that as a
form of sacrifice. (I call it 'Freedom of Choice'. :-) )
See you later,
Jill
P.S. I will be able to return the tape to you next Wednesday--is that ok? I
*thoroughly* enjoyed the movie and the session with Jane Roberts/Seth. I want
to watch it one more time if that won't create a problem for you. Thanks
again.
|
| 731.20 | Glad We Could Share | BORIKN::ESPOSITO | | Fri May 13 1988 02:05 | 46 |
| Jill,
I has been a real pleasure to have shared insights with you.
As I stated at the onset of our conversation, if you relate to anything
I 've felt to offer you then it becomes valid and relative to you
alone. Only you yourself can judge and accept what has relevance, and
discard the rest.
I believe there is a question of "semantics" that has cropped up.
I understand that the word "sacrifice" has a somewhat negative
connotation to it. What I meant is that inorder for one to reach out
and help someone many times he or she will have to:
"surrender something for the sake of something else."
It is easier to comprehend the true nature of people and things when
one sees them in the extreme state. For example, if a Physicist wishes
to contemplate the true nature of "gravity" he seeks to study the
phenomenon of a Black Hole. When one wishes to contemplate "selfless
giving" many look to Mother Theresa and the Rev. Mark Buntain and their
work with the poorest of the poor in Calcutta.
While a Cobat Medic in Vietnam I knew a man for a brief time . .
Father Dominick Cappadona. While wounded himself he crawled out
under heavy enemy fire and placed his body over the body of another
Marine who lay helpless and bleeding. Father Cappadona was killed.
"Greater love hath no man/woman than this,
that he lay down his life for his friends."
John 15:13
He surrendered (sacrificed) something (his life) for something
(someone) else.
I use the word sacrifice in the context of what I have just shared
with you.
I believe "Love that is not expressed in loving action does
not really exist, just as talent that does not express itself in
creative works does not exist. Neither of these is a state of mind
or a feeling but an activity or it is a myth."
Best Wishes to and yours,
Richard
|
| 731.21 | Me, too | BIGSUR::GRAFTON_JI | | Fri May 13 1988 13:24 | 11 |
| Richard,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings--I have learned
from our 'conversation' and am glad that you have been so open.
Not many people can be that open and that is a real treat.
Thanks again,
Jill
|
| 731.22 | Until you dream again . . . | BORIKN::ESPOSITO | | Fri May 13 1988 17:28 | 27 |
| Jill,
It's been a rare pleasure to converse with you this way.
Consider me a friend.
One of favorite female vocalists is Roberta Flack. There is a special
song she has recorded on one of her earlier albums entitled:
- RIVER -
It's on her, Roberta Flack
Killing Me Softly
Atlantic Records
CS 19154
Side Two (2)
If you ever have the opprotunity to hear it, it exlpains (quit elegantly)
how this type of special interchange can happen. Certainly music expresses
the otherwise inexpressible.
Till you dream again?
Regards, and God Bless,
Richard
|