Conference hydra::dejavu

re; < Note 708.0 by MPGS::WICKMAN >

Welcome to DEJAVU; nice to hear from you.

I have the same experience when someone to whom I am related, dies, only I 
don't have it in advance (usually I know the moment after death) and it only 
works with blood relatives (the first time it happened was with a grandfather 
whom I'd never met, and I had not been told that the man whom I thought of as 
"Grandpa" was not a blood relative).  So, what you are experiencing, does 
happen to some of us, on occasion.  It isn't common, but it happens, so you 
know you have company.  It is disconcerting, and I think your position is more 
difficult, in that you seem to be told in advance.  I hope that you have 
assumed no guilt because of this.  I doubt that you are in a position to be 
able to prevent it.  Being foretold must be hard, but in a sense, if you have 
anything to say to someone that has been left unsaid, and you have felt that 
this person will die, you know that you must act, quickly.  I think the hardest 
thing about someone dying is all that we left, undone and unsaid, and we hope 
that they "know", but we cannot be certain, for the most part.

I don't really have an explanation; I just wanted to offer some assurance.  
There are other various notes in the conference with others who've had the same 
experience; I don't know exactly where to point you, but I'll take a look.

Take care,
Meredith

    Welcome to the conference Ken.
    
    It sounds like you have been given some glimpses of the future.
    One of the problems with this, whether it comes apparently from
    paranormal sources (as in your case) or from analysis, is that
    foresight does not imply the ability to change or protect.  Its
    like watching live broadcasts on TV -- you can see what is going
    on but there is no way to influence it.
    
    Some people seem to get this kind of message, some get messages
    about what might happen but can be avoided (e.g., "don't get on the
    plane") and some get some of each.
    
    The first thing to watch out for is any sense of guilt, something
    people who get accurate death premonitions frequently feel -- however,
    much they consciously realize that they are not responsible.  Make
    sure that there is no corner of your mind that believes that you
    somehow caused the deaths or that somehow given the forewarning
    that you were "supposed" to prevent them.  If there is a purpose
    in the premonitions it is to allow you to prepare for the inevitable.
    
    The second thing to do is to watch out for the "other kind" of
    premonition.  Don't get into the frame of mind that since you haven't
    been able to "do" anything about the premonitions in the past that
    all such premonitions are inevitable.  Whenever you get a possible
    preminition, decide whether or not you have been granted enough
    information to *perhaps* do something about it.  If you have then
    go ahead and try -- but don't feel guilty if you fail, it may not
    have been possible (if you have warned them "not to get on the plane"
    and explained why, etc., it is *their* decision not yours whether
    or not they get on, and the consequences are theirs).  You are like
    a Dr. in this situation, you make the best judgements you can and
    act as best you can and sometimes it may help and sometimes it just
    won't.  Keep in mind that sometimes dreams of someones death are
    not a premonition, but something else -- e.g., simple fear of loss
    of that person or something/one that they are symbolically standing
    in for.
    
    The third thing, if you wish to persue this ability, is to start
    paying more attention.  You may find many less dramatic cases which
    previously you didn't notice.  Death may be the only subject which
    has, in the past, gotten your attention.  You will find, in several
    places in this conference, specific recomendations for keeping
    "dream diaries".  I would recommend starting with that.  Even if
    you discover no new premonitions your bound to learn a lot about
    yourself, which is worthwhile by itself.
    
    						Topher

    
    With regards to these dreams or "insights" I personally feel that
    they are some sort of "teaching mechanism" if I may say that.  I
    pay my respects before the actual event so that I will be stronger
    personally when the deaths occur and learn by the experiences of each
    one and thus be able to handle sudden changes that life brings to
    each one of us.
         I know that I should have no guilt because I believe that each
    individual leads their own destiny and I believe we cannot change our
    destiny, only the events that lead to that destiny.  It is kind of
    awkward, strange, heartbreaking that these feelings take form in their
    final act and I am powerless to change them.  I realize that, but in a
    sense they all could have a bearing in how I am, or grow as a person.
    There is good that come in all things bad.
         
    Re. .2
    
         I will start taking notes about the dreams that I have.  I have
    had some pretty strange ones.
    
    
    With death I do believe there is an afterlife.  I would like to relate
    to a couple experiences that have happened.  Maybe these belong in
    another topic but I don't want to search through 707 topics just yet.
    
         Back when my grandmother died, she suffered for a long period
    before she died.  She had 14 children and two of them gave up their
    time, effort, and life to she that she was as comfortable as possible,
    my mother and one of her sisters.
         She died while I was in England and my mother related this ex-
    perience to me when I returned.  While at the wake, leaning next to
    the body of my grandmother, my mother distinctly saw her "wink" at
    her.  After the funeral she told her sister (Patty) that ma winked
    at me.  Patty said that she did the same thing to her (wink).  They
    asked the other 12 brothers and sisters and not one of them saw my
    grandmother "wink."
         The other experience happened last year.  My mother's sister
    Patty was diagnosed as having cancer.  When the doctors went in to
    remove one of her kidneys, they discovered that the cancer had spread
    via a vein, from her kidney to her heart where she had a tumor the
    size of a golfball.  The doctors then performed open-heart surgery
    and Patty subsequently died on the operating table.  The doctors were
    able to bring her back to life and she shared this story with my 
    mother some months after her recovery.  She related that she was
    having a conversation with my grandmother and that she was telling
    her to pull through the operation, that she could do it, and that
    she wasn't ready yet.  She doesn't talk about it much now, but I
    believe that she has an understanding, a shared feeling that most of
    us can only read about or wish to believe.
    
    Ken

    RE: .0, .3  
    
       I have a question for you.  In all of these experiences regarding
    dreams prior to a persons death, did each of those people die a
    natural death or were any of them killed in an accident, etc.  
       I believe that people, particularly older people, sometimes sense
    that their time is near and may subconsiously be sending signals.
    From my own experience with my grandparents, I know a couple of
    them knew they were about to pass on.  However, you are gifted with
    the talent of being able to receive these messages.  
       The reason I asked if they all died naturally or not is if they
    met an unnatural death, they most likely would not have sensed it
    ahead of time (althought this is still possible) and would not be
    transmitting subconsiously!
    
    
    Dan
    
    

    ken
    
    You definitely have some type of psychic connection...
    
    If anything else like that happens let us know........

    Re: .4
    
    These deaths were all natural, though some extremely sudden and
    very unexpected than others.

    RE: .4, .6
    
    	Yes, all natural, I sort of thought so.  Even though some of
    them may have been quite sudden or unexpected, perhaps internally
    the individual's subconscious knew what the future held for them.
    Again your link through your own subconcious is able to pick up
    these vibes and then are presented to you in your dreams.
        First what I am about to say, I say cautiously, for you should
    not feel quilty or place any blame on yourself, as others have already
    mentioned.  
    	Should you experience these in the future, you could interpret
    the dream as a warning of ill health, that the individual themselves
    is unaware of, but you are able to interpret.  You may try contacting
    them, don't startle them, but ask about their health, if anything
    has been bothering them, and if they say yes, suggest they see a
    doctor at once.  If they wonder why you are asking and you don't
    want to put yourself in the spotlight, just say you were thinking
    of them and for some unknown reason found yourself worrying about
    them.  [Of course we know the real reason].
    	If they follow your advice and a doctor does find something
    wrong that is correctable through medicine or surgery, then perhaps
    you will find that you can use this gift in a helpful manner.  Again
    I say be cautious and do not place any blame on yourself if someone
    refuses to listen to you.  Of if they do and consulting a doctor
    does not show anything and death still results.  For some perhaps
    their time has come regardless of what steps are taken.
    	Each time you have these dreams, write them down, as well as
    any other related incidences that may follow.
    	You are perhaps more fine tuned to those individuals that you
    are related to or closest too, but may be able to develop this gift
    further to help others.
                           
    

    re: .7 (Entler)
    
    Your theory about people knowing when they will die has one small
    hole in it.  In the case of violent death; accident, massive coronary,
    murder, etc. the person also knows they are about to die (in most
    cases).  They could also send out a message.  I see no difference
    in the cases except there may be less time to compose a message.
    You know what the most common last two words heard on the airplane
    cockpit recorders in plane crashes are?  The words are "Oh, sh*t!"
    
    Stan

re; < Note 708.8 by MCIS2::SHURSKY >

I can give an example of a death that happened very suddenly, unexpectedly, via 
airplane crash, in which it seemed as though a message was being sent.

"Dutch" Kirkpatrick wrote his aunt for the first time in three months.  He was 
seeing two women, and had a long talk with each before he left to take the 
flight in a friend's plane from Denver to Colo. Springs.  On the way back to 
Denver, the plane crashed, and both were killed.  Did he know?  Did he feel 
something?  It's hard to tell, but he certainly did make what seemed to be 
preparations...

    RE: .8
    
    (Your theory about people knowing when they will die has one small
    hole in it.  In the case of violent death; accident, massive coronary,
    murder, etc. the person also knows they are about to die (in most
    cases).  They could also send out a message.)
    
    	You misunderstood me, I said their subconscious knew that perhaps
    they were going to die.  In any case, even if these other cases
    were able to send these messages, there still has to be someone
    that is connected telepathically to receive them.  This seems to
    be the case with the originator of this note.