Conference hydra::dejavu

    
    	Sounds to me more like burn-out, the end result of stress.
    	Is there an Employee Assistance Program office in your area?
    	They might be able to help. If you call personnel they can
    	tell you how to get in touch with EAP, and it's completely
    	confidential.
    
    hang in there...
    
    {Neal}

	Hi CC!

	(you may want to try WOMANNOTES for additional support)

>First off, I am 'stuck' in my current position. 

Why? It's just a job. Perhaps it might be best to take some time off, if
only to get rid of the feeling of entrappment. Weigh the value of your
feeling well against the money - is it worth it?

>I have extreme mood swings. 

Do you find that they correlate to any natural phenomena, like the weather
or moon phase? Do they only go toward the "down" side, or is there a 
corresponding and equal "up" period?

>I have no interest to do anything anymore.
>Now, I just vegetate on the couch.
>In that time, apart from my husband, I have made 0 friends.
>I just don't have the energy to do it anymore.

Is it really your true choice to be this way? Or are you / is your
subconscious *protesting* something or a situation you greatly dislike
by invoking this behavior?

>I moved to my current location (Wash, DC area)) about 5-1/2 yrs ago. 

What's Washington, D.C. like to live in? Sounds pretty stressful in itself,
being the nations capitol and all.

>In the past 3 years I have had so many physical ailments wrong with me...
>I go to a chiropractor regularly,

Quite possibly, a physical reflection of your current *emotional* perception 
of "how things are"!

>exercise twice a week (aerobic)

That's a plus!

	(I am not a qualified psychologist, but would be glad to tell you
what I think, as long as it's understood that this is just an opinion
of a DECnoter...)

	I think there is something in your life that deeply troubles you
right now. As an example, lets consider the job. It's confining, "you're
stuck", or boxed in as far as you can see. Because, from you're perspective,
you see "the job" in this way, it is only natural to react in a manner that
will bring your ultimate freedom from it. Albeit you do understand all the 
"logical" reasons _not_ to disturb your continuing employee status, what
you really *feel* is a strong need to get away. And since you "cannot" quit,
as you've stated, your mind has cooked up 1001 ways to protest - or be negative
about - the situation. About life itself, now.
	From what you've told us, it seems you'll get out - one way or another. 
Hopefully, you'll realize what it is and consciously relieve yourself of
what's bothering you - before your subconsciousness relieves you of it *for* 
you.
	Many, many physical problems people have could merely be a reflection
of their emotional state. When you are charged up as you have described, with
your moods swinging all over the place, it's your personal energy that's
driving you thru the states. Energy has a bad habit of "having to go somewhere"
and it can manefest itself in a physical ailment of some sort. Solve the reason
your troubled, and you'll not need to generate the energy. And if you dont 
generate the energy, your body doesnt have to dissapate it.

	So, to summarise:

	1. Find out what it *really is* that's bothering you.
	2. Consciously make a choice about it. Is it really worth 
	   continuing what's happening to you? Convince your subconscious 
	   mind of either -

		- There. it's gone. you OK now?		-OR-
		- Hey look, this is what *I* want and your just
	          gonna hafta operate in accordance with that.

	3. The negative energy dissappears.

	Hope this helps!

	Joe Jas

    
    I had a similar problem a couple of years ago, so believe me, I
    can relate to your situation.  One thing that helped me a lot
    was reading the book "You Can Heal Your Life" by Louise Hay.  That
    book really put things in my life into perspective for me.  It
    really helped me to get out of the "victim consciousness" that I
    was in.  I totally re-evaluated my life and slowly got myself out
    of the depression spiral I was in.  (It wasn't easy, but I took
    my time doing it, a step at a time.)  It is possible to get yourself
    out of this dilemma, but it will take time & energy to do it.
    
    Hang in there, things are not as bad as you think they are.  You
    need to get objective about your situation instead of subjective.
    One thing you might try is a mental exercise in which an imaginary
    friend of yours has all these problems.  What would you advise your
    friend to do?  This will help you to distance your problems and
    to look at them in a totally different light.
    
    I know you can do it....Have faith in yourself..... 
    
    Linda

    
    
    Please don't tell her "it isn't as bad as you think it is."
    It really IS as bad as she thinks it is, so let's not belittle
    her problem....
    
    These are all excellent suggestions.  However-excellent suggestions,
    when a person is feeling trapped or depressed, often make the person
    feel more trapped and depressed.  For example:
    
    "I feel trapped in my job"  <flurry of suggestions follows>
    The resulting feeling is "Gee, if I had *really* tried hard enough,
    I wouldn't be trapped in this job-everyone says so.  So, in addition
    to being trapped, I'm also a failure.  sigh"...
    
    So, CC, take the suggestions, but take them at face value, ok?
    
    Good luck...
    
    Deb
    
    
    

    
    
    	can't say i have been to your house but i have been in the
    neighborhood.
    	i was in a job where i couldn't get promoted because i was a
    male?! of course it was an all female company (except me) and i
    was stressed out, sick and tired, blah blah blah ect ect and my
    wife worked with me. AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! needless to say i was
    bouncing off the walls of my mind in no time.
    
    	i  carefully re-evaluated what i wanted to do with my life
    and decided that i really wanted to just be/exist in contentment.
    
    	i think it is rather tragic that people wait till they retire
    to do what they want to why can't people take up time with things
    they enjoy?!
    
    	but you dont need to hear about that garbage yet.
    
    	a  man walked into a doctors office and said "Doctor it hurts
    when I do this." and the Doctor said "Then don't do that." 
    	possibly this can relate? 
    
    	to me noting is more important than my health physical/spirtual/
    and mental. (mental health means nothing untill you misplace it
    somewhere)(i think it was with the car keys?)
    
    	anyway... start asking questions to yourself.
    	1)what do you want to be when you grow up?
    		(if/when i grow up i want to be a child)
    	There can be alot said for plunging into the wonderful world
    	of Chaos. and there can be alot said about not jumping over
        cliffs!!
    		
    	YOU know yourself better than anyone else. i also think you
    know the answers but want to hear them from someone else to help
    encourage and strengthen you. In that case..
    
    	my theory is that you are not going crazy but possibly on the
    brink of going sane. You are realizing things are wrong and in need
    of drastic change. sounds sane to me (but look where that is comming
    from).
    	TAKE CARE!
    
    
    
    
    	

    
    	FUSTRATION! FOR SOME REASON I AM UNABLE TO CORRECTLY ADD AN
    ENTRY WISHING EVERYONE A HAPPY SPRING!!!! (i am sure the problem
    lies with the operator but i will blame this machine anyway.)
    
    	Happy spring everyone!!  best of luck in the season of
     rebirth and may your blessings be many!                            
    
    	HAIL PAN !!!
    
    
        

    Dear CC,
    
    	Sounds to me that you are feeling terribly lonely.  But I have
    to congratulate you because as bad as things are at the moment you
    are still doing things to at least keep afloat.  
    
    	I know you said you don't want to tell your problems to a
    professional but believe me it does help.  Nothing happens overnight
    and it sometimes takes years before you can really see the results.
    In the meantime this person is your sounding boards, someone you
    can cling to when you feel yourself going down, someone who is on
    *your* side.  You will learn that you do have choices, you will
    learn to get rid of guilt, you will learn to handle feelings, bad
    and good.  
    
    	Someone suggested you use the EAP.  It is a wonderful idea.
    It will help you deal with your work condition and find a way to
    either accept of change the situation.  They will also let you know
    if it is really necessary for you to see a professional outside
    of DEC.  Please give it a try, you have nothing to lose.
    
    	One suggestion if I may. It is better to tell your boss you feel 
    you have outgrown you present job and are looking for growth and 
    challenges than to tell him you are unhappy.  It is always better
    to come from strength; so use a positive attitude to achieve your
    goals.
    
    	Another thing that might be very helpful is to live one day
    at a time.  It's fine to look towards the future and make plans
    but right now you are so exhausted that you can't take in too many
    things at once.  Go minute by minute and when something good happens
    savor it completely and just keep thinking about the good and positive
    It demands a lot of effort and concentration but it's worth it in
    the long run.  And remember that the sun always shine, it's just
    that sometimes it hides behind the clouds.
    
    	CC you need a bit more help than any of us here can give you.
    So do try the EAP for a start.  Keep doing your aerobics it's one
    of the best thing you can do for yourself right now.  Also know
    that it's ok to feel the way you do.  Things just are not the way
    you would like them to be so it's normal to feel depressed.  You
    will find a way to turn things arouond I'm sure.  
    
    	In the meantime keep writing and let us know how you are doing.
    
    Good luck to you.
    L.
      

    I found that when I was under a lot of stress, I had ailments and
    illnesses galore.  I got it under control with a combination of
    trying to stop worrying so much, and a course called "Ways to
    Wellness", given by Harvard Community Health Plan (Boston area).
    Non-HCHP members can take it, too, and it focuses on how various
    forms of dis-ease (that's how they put it, and quite accurate too)
    are caused by emotional and mental things that are going on, how
    we can try and be more well, and promote wellness in ourselves over
    the long run.  People there had problems ranging from eating disorders
    to stress disorders to panic attacks, back pain, allergies, cancer,
    alcoholism, diabetes, you name it.  
    
    I read a book (given to me by my father, who also found it helpful)
    called "Burn-Out".  It is by Herbert J. Fredenberger, and looks
    at not only what causes burn-out, but how to reduce its effects
    or avoid it entirely.
    
    -Jody
    
    p.s.  The book should be found in the psychology or self-help section of
    any major bookstore (Lauriat's, Waldenbooks, Paperback Booksmith,
    etc)
    

    I really want to thank everyone for their suggestions, and emotional
    support. I didn't have a particularly good weekend, and these replies
    really made today a little better.
    
    Thanks everyone for the replies, and the mail I've gotten.
    
    I'll keep you informed on any decisions I make. I'm taking in all
    the suggestions I've been given, and seeing what I really need to
    do.
    
    cc

I've had some similar problems to yours and would like to offer you both
some encouragement and some suggestions. First the encouragement - what you're
going through will pass, eventually. With some help, it will pass faster than
if you try to tough it out alone. I've tried both ways and it's much quicker to 
get help/suggestions etc. from someone who's "outside" your problem. I'd
second the suggestion already made in the note that you find someone who can 
help you with these problems, hopefully in a holistic way by discovering 
exactly where they are all coming from. From your description it sounds like 
what's going on is that because of your combination of stress/frustration/
anger/bitterness your body is reacting in such a way so as to _force_ you to
make a change. This could mean several things: 1. quitting your job, 2.getting 
some professional guidance/help, 3.discovering what is really making you ill, 
4.confronting your true feelings, or 5.even the possibility of moving somewhere 
else. You stated in your note that you've been having medical problems for the 
past 3 years and that you've been in DC for about 5 1/2 years. Studies have
shown that stress induced illnesses start to show up about 1 to 2 1/2 years
or so after encountering the original form of the stress. It could be that 
your move there was the start of all this. My suspicion is that you've been 
unhappy ever since you've moved there. 

There are many excellent books mentioned in the note file, one in particular 
that I believe could help you immediately is titled "Love, Medicine, and
Miracles" by Bernie Siegel, M.D.  He describes patients who have situations 
remarkably similar sounding to yours and how he was able to help them - 
actually he helped them learn how to help themselves. He also has a video tape
out which addresses some of the problems you mention. It costs about $50, but
I'd recommend it. If you're interested, I'll look up the address for ordering 
the tape.
         
I'd also suggest that you not try changing jobs right now, it would only be 
the cause of more stress. The same applies to trying to advance to a higher
position. There would be more stress involved in trying to learn a new job.
Your first priority should be to get your health back, then I think things 
will start to fall into place for you job-wise. 

I hope some of the above helps for starters. You might try asking your
chiropractor for some references to some holistic oriented psychologists 
and/or M.D's in your area as another avenue of help. I know you stated:

>>Should I see a doctor? My problem with seeing a specialist in the 
>>field is that I don't like to tell strangers my problems. 

Well, you've just told hundreds of strangers your problems, so it shouldn't be 
difficult to tell just one more. Please consider it and remember you always 
have the option to go to someone else if you don't feel comfortble with 
whoever you might pick first. It is important that you feel comfortable 
and develop a sense of trust with them.

	- Bill

    
    HI CC,
    
      I have experienced the same things you are going through.Actually,
    several times in my life.I am presently going through it again.I
    have been using the EAP and it is helpful,so I too encourage you
    to use it.I mainly want to be support to you.You are not alone.
      I sense that your problems began with the lonliness you felt when
    you made the move.Loss of friends and familiar places.Sometimes
    it can be very hard to make such a change.I have made a recent change
    of residence and I feel this way.Then i get angry so easily because
    of stress.Doing things that I am not happy with can cause a lot
    of stress.I need to make changes.Talk to myself and redirect my
    life toward more of the things i enjoy and get a sense of worth,and,
    that i am helping others.
      Good luck.If you need someone to talk to,then I am here.I care
    about you,as many others in this conference do.Keep trying.Dont
    give up.
    
      Peace
      Michael
    

    
    Hi CC,
    
    As many others have already said, I can sympathize with your feelings.
    
    I tried to send you a note but it said your disk quota was exceeded
    and wouldn't send it.  Can you be reached on another node?
    
    Cindy

CC-

It seems to me that you have 2 problems: bad job situation and no
emotional support network.  It's very hard to move to a new place,
and make new friends when you're a working adult.  Our main source
of friends is probably at work.  I have also been in situations
(twice) where I hated my job.  In the first instance, I stuck it out
for two years because I saw long term gains.  I lucked out and the
cause of my suffering (my boss) left the company.  I cannot tell you
how quickly and completely my work life changed for the better.  The
second time I decided that it was hopeless and that I should get
another job.  I spend quite a lot of time at work.  How I feel at work
profoundly affects me -- not only at work, but all the time.  I found
that I was more emotional and angry, and had less energy when I was
unhappy at work.
Without details, no one can really help you.  I agree Bill that your
problems probably started when you moved to DC.  I also agree that you
should get some emotional support.  One way is to see a professional.  I
think that you should try to do some things just for yourself.  Aerobics
is good. Take a class for your enjoyment.  You might make some friends as
well, but don't go for this purpose.  I don't think that you should stay
in your job if you really have tried all avenues, don't see any long
term benefit from staying, and really decide to quit.  Although it is
stressful to start a new job, and you run the risk of not liking your
new one, I think that you need to get out of a bad environment.  I think
that your stress is due to unhappiness and lonliness, not from technical
difficulties at work.  On the other hand, it's looking for a new job
that I find to be stressful.  If you do choose to look for a new job,
expect rejection, and be selective in your choice.  In terms of exploring
all avenues, have you tried getting someone else to be your reference,
instead of your boss?  My mother was once in a similar situation (in a
different company).  Basically her boss wouldn't let her out, but treated
her horribly.  Luckily, she had been given favorable reviews by previous
bosses, and found someone else in the organization who had some power and
was willing to stand up for her.  After a lot of pain, she finally got out
of the organization and is now very happy.  (She is still with the same
company.  My point is that sometimes personnel is not very creative in
finding ways to get you out of a given situation, but that you might be
able to suggest to them ways they may help you.  (I doubt very much that
that sentence is grammatically correct.  I only hope that it is
understandable.)
These are just some ideas.  I certainly am not in the field of psychology.
I wish you the best of luck.  Don't be so hard on yourself.  You've
taken the first steps.  You've acknowledged a problem, and you've
reached out.  I sense that you have already tried many things, but
haven't given up.  What you're dealing with is very real and very
depressing.  That's why you feel depressed.  Decide what you want to
do, given your choices, and do it.  You will overcome this problem.
Better health will follow it those problems are due to stress (which
they probably are).

			-Marla

    I think you have a combination of stress and SAD syndrome....
    I discovered this sydrome in the January 11th issue of Time..
    This stands for seasonal affective disorder, syndrome characterized
    by severe seasonal mood swings. "This is more that the winter
    blahs,"says Psychiatrist Carla Hellekson of Fairbanks.  "This is
    something that needs to be taken care of.
    
    Typically, SAD sufferers become clinically depressed with the approach
    of winter.  Besides gaining weight, oversleeping and being listless,
    they withdraw socially, lose interest insex and feel anxious and
    irratable...
    
    This is a possibility....I also feel that your very stressed out
    and I will be forwarding you an article that someone sent to me
    when I was acting the same way...
    
    One thing that I want you to remember is that you're somebody and
    you are capable of going as far as you like if you put your mind
    to it...Don't ever let anyone belittle you...I suggest that you
    go to EAP for some counceling and I suggest you go to personnel
    for a transfer..I know if you explained your situation to personnel
    they will help you..I know this is easier said than done but try
    to put it out of your mind because your health is very important
    and stuff like this can cause an ulcer .....
    
    Please see someone..you really need to?  That's the only way you
    will find happiness...
    
    Andrea
    
    P.S.  I will be forwarding you some mail.
    
    
    
    

    I certainly can sympathize with you.  Trying to pick yourself up
    by the straps and forcing yourself to go on when things seem hopeless
    it's alot easier for one on the outside to say than to actually do
    it for yourself.  I am also going thru similar stress however mine
    is personal.  The person I cherised the most in my life my husband
    decided he no longer wanted to be married, just like that.
    
    Take everyone's advise and go to EAP, they will refer you to a very
    professional and reliable professional in your area who can help
    you put things in prospective.  Take one hour at a time and don't
    expect yourself to manage at 100% when you don't have 100% to give.
    It is very difficult to work through these things on your own and
    sometimes our closest and best friends can't really be objective,
    that's were professional counseling comes in.  Your counselor is
    always there anytime of day anytime of the week, just to talk if
    that's what you need.
    
    As you I have some days where I don't know where I'm going to get
    the strength to get out of bed.  But I have begun to realize noone
    will do it for me but I now have developed a small but reliable
    support group.  It use to be very difficult for me to ask for help
    but we are humans not robots and we have feelings and we are not
    perfect and at times we need to lean on others for awhile.
    
    I know with time things will work out with your job and your feelings
    please don't take EAP lightly that's the one great thing about working
    for Digital they know people are human and what affects people
    personally will affect their job and also the people around them.
    
    I asked for help and got it, it was the hardest thing I ever had
    to do.  Now they are there to help.
    
    Please do the same.
    
    KB
    

    I am by all means no expert on this subject, but after reading your
    initial message and all the replies, ther are a couple of subjects
    that have been overlooked.
    
    After reading your initial message, I did not detect anything that
    might suggest a problem with alcohol. so dismissing that I will
    move on to a couple of other possibilities that might be causing
    some of your problems.
    
    You mentioned that you have had various illnesses over the past
    three years.  During that time your doctor has no doubt perscribed
    different drugs for you.  If some of these drugs have been perscribed
    for long term use, as well as possibly being used in conjunction
    with other perscribed later for other illnesses, these may be having
    an affect on your bodies metabolism, and could be one cause for
    some of your depression.  Perscription drugs even under a doctors
    care sometimes may not be best for the individual that they were
    perscribed for.  They react differently with each person.  It is
    also easily possible that the doctor may have perscribed some for
    you that would react with something else he had perscribed in the
    past that he did not recall.  Face it he's a busy person, he can't
    remember everything.  So you might want to consult your doctor about
    the medicines you may be taking and ask him about any of their possible
    effects on your body, such as a cause for depression.
    
    Second, another concern is diet.  I think you may have mentioned
    that, I don't remember.  If you drink a lot of caffine, such as
    coffee or coke, you may want to give them up.  Do you have problems
    sleeping at night.  These may be a cause of it and if we dont sleep
    well then the next day is going to be stressful.  This may be something
    else that you might want to discuss with your doctor.
    
    You mentioned that you do exercise.  That's very good, but do you
    go through the same routines all the time?  Perhaps you have reached
    a point where you need to push your body a little harder to release
    more tension that may in the long run help you to relax.  
    
    Again I agree with everyone else, if consulting your personal doctor
    does not help then seek help through Digitals programs, that's what
    they are there for.
    
    Good luck and we all wish you the best.
    
    Dan
    

    Re: .16
    
    I wanted to let you know more about my situation and to let you
    know about my diet and other.
    
    My repeated illness/diagnosis/treatments include:
    
    Jan. 85: Heart palpitations. Diagnosed as mitral valve prolapse
    (common in woman during child-bearing years). Not serious. (Stress
    related). Prescribed Atenynol -- took until 3/86 -- occassional
    palpitations, but only when I'm extremely tired.
    
    Apr. 86: Allergies. Never had before this time. Couldn't breath.
    Given a shot, and prescribed sterrhoids (which I did not take at
    all) amoxillan and an antihistamine which I took for about 2 weeks.
    
    Jul 86: Sun reaction. Discovered that exposure to sun I would start
    severe itching. Diagnosed as a type of sweat fungus. Given a cream
    to be used 3 days prior to sun exposure. Haven't used since 7/87.
    Forgot to take it to Jamaica this fall, and had no problems. 
    
    Small cist on ovaries - diagnosed as deformation. Nothing serious.
    
    Stomach problems - start of ulcer - prescribed Milanta when symptoms
    occur. Last taken 12/87.
    
    Excrutiating headaches - cut down on Nutra-Sweet intake. No problem
    since I cut down in late December 87.
    
    
    No alcohol problems. One drink and I'm finished. (I'll never make
    an alcoholic!)
    
    The only caffeine I take in is in diet colas and chocolate. I've
    cut down on the diet colas (containe nutra sweet), and really don't
    care too much for coffee. However, I do like ice tea, but have been
    drinking the decaf lately. Currently I just drink fruit juices and
    bottled water.
    
    I have rejoined my health spa, but I need to find a time that I
    don't feel like I'm getting 'picked up' (spas are notorious anymore
    for being the pickup place of the 80's.). The only time I can find
    time to go without that problem is 6:00 a.m. and I have enough problem
    just convincing myself to get up to go to work.
    
    

    RE .17
    
    Well, from what you told me, I see no drug problem either, basically
    a clean bill of health!  That only leaves the job situation, and
    the BIG CITY symdrome!!  I lived in the D.C. area myself for about
    3 years working for DEC and can understand how one can find it
    uncomfortable.  It's not easy making friends, and although I like
    many people I work with I prefer not to over socialize with them.
    You might consider some type of hobby or sport away from DEC where
    you can relax and meet new people, that may eventually develop into
    friendships.  I gather from this topic that you have a hard time
    discussing your personal feelings.  We all need and outlet once
    in a while, someone totally removed from the situation, an open
    ear, they don't even have to agree or express an opinion, just being
    there helps.   You might consider something relaxing like ceramics,
    moulding clay,  swimming, of just exploring the Museums around the
    D.C. mall.
    
    	In any case, good luck. The best thing that you have going for
    you is YOU!  You are trying to find a solution, and sooner or later
    through others, through the Digital programs available to you and
    yourself, I'm sure you will.
    
    Dan
    

                                                               
    Hi CC,
    
    Believe it or not, you've already taken the first step toward getting
    well.  You entered note .0.
    
    I recognize your story - it's almost identical to mine....right
    down to the headaches.
    
    One recommendation - be gentle on yourself and be kind to yourself.
    One thing I picked up on by reading .0 is that you seem very tired
    and drained.  When I first discovered my total lack of energy about
    4 years ago, I realized that I was living for everyone else and
    not for *my self*.  It took many years to turn this around, and
    a few very selfish people leaving my life, but it made all the 
    difference.  
    
    I also had the same problem you did on the job.  I managed to impress
    enough people outside of my dept. and this is what got me past
    my then manager and his little 'empire', but it was awful, and it
    was degrading...for lack of a better term.  You go away from it
    all thinking that 'it's all you' and that there's something wrong
    with you, and this becomes a horrible downward spiral with no end 
    in sight.  To add insult to injury, nobody believes the victim,
    and when you feel powerless, you are a victim.  Thanks to a senior
    manager I trusted about a year after leaving that job, I talked
    with him about the prior situation, and he helped me to understand
    what really went on.  He also told me that I had every right to be 
    angry and that I was treated unfairly, and had I gone to him at the 
    time, he would have personally gotten involved on my behalf.
    
    The first step I took was to say, as they shouted in Network, "I'm 
    mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"  If your manager is
    treating you like this, then you have EVERY RIGHT to be angry! 
    Give yourself the permission to be angry - there is nothing wrong
    with this.  And then right after you get angry, make a commitment
    to change things for the better and know that YOU ARE REALLY OK. 
    You *deserve* better.        
    
    If there is any one thing I hope that you are able to get from this
    conference (something I have gotten) is that you are fine, and that
    you are liked just as you are, and that there are people here who care 
    about you.  You are not alone.
                                                                     
    Ditto on Bill's suggestion on "Love, Medicine, and Miracles" by Bernie 
    Siegel - excellent book.
         
    Also, check out the MEDICAL conference - think it's on GUMMO::.
    There's a lot of good information there.  And on Nutrasweet - CUT
    IT OUT OF YOUR DIET!  It's bad stuff and has been directly linked
    with depression (Science News about 2 years ago) and may be linked 
    to Alzheimer's disease (I've put in that announcement in MEDICAL 
    already).  For the health side - I'd recommend subscribing to
    Prevention magazine.  
    
    Hang in there - we're with you!
    
    Cindy

On that last reply...I was trying to put in a note I had to recover when the 
node went down, and now, the system won't allow me to delete it.  PHOOEY!  Here 
goes...

    Hi, CC - I've been there too, at various stages of being in-and-out
    of what you describe for somewhere around 3-4 years.  It boils down
    to STRESS.
    
    I've been to see an excellent therapist through EAP.  A good therapist
    has to do more than listen and ask a couple of questions.  While
    this does help, the best progress you can make is with someone who
    not only asks questions, but puts pieces of your puzzle together
    and helps you understand.  If it comes down to seeing a psychologist
    or a psychiatrist, choose the latter.  Psychiatrists are more on
    the level of helping you understand how the pieces of your puzzle
    fit.  I feel quite strongly about this.
    
    I, too, am a secretary.  I have BA's in Mass Communications and
    Psychology, and spent 5 years in the media before ending up here.
    I *never* wanted to be a secretary.  I truly admire those secretaries
    who know their jobs well and perform them well, but I can't get
    enough interest up to be an excellent secretary.  I have problems
    getting out of bed just to come in here, too.  The story of why
    I left the media is too long and tragic to put in here; I will
    summarize by saying that I was repeatedly fired for doing an excellent
    job.  Politics were more important than performance.  Despite good
    relationships with clients; despite my good creative abilities;
    despite good ratings, free overtime, low salary (I am making more
    as a secretary than I did in those 5 years!!!), I couldn't cut it.
    I spent four years in school and gained five years of experience,
    and it got me absolutely nowhere.  I didn't even make the interview
    loop for a media position open at DEC CXO; they did 4 interviews
    and hired from the outside.  (I complained to Personnel and never
    heard back.  I even left open an opportunity for them to tell me
    that the problem was something with me.  No response.)  So, one
    thing is clear; my reality is telling me that the media is not for
    me.  So much for nine years.  Now, what?  I have to start again,
    and find a new direction, and find what it is that I really want
    to do.  One of the major problems with rapid change (your move to
    D.C.??) is that, sometimes, you have to give up a lot, but there
    is not yet, the new with which to replace the lost.  You feel a
    sense of loss, even if what you are leaving behind is good to leave
    behind/get out of your life. Phase II - what you get into, is a job
    for which you are over-qualified.  You feel your talents going to
    waste.  But you are in a rut and cannot seem to find a way out.
    Enter patience.  (And, quickly, please!)  Hearing that there are
    people worse off and that you should be grateful for even having
    a job is worse than no consolation at all.  Plan to quit/leave your
    present job, but be *patient* enough to bear with it until you feel
    that the time is right for leaving.  (If you absolutely have to
    keep the job right now, as do I, congratulate yourself every day
    of the week for having the courage to go and do, that which you
    do not want to do; congratulate yourself for making the choice which
    you believe is right, even though that right choice makes you
    uncomfortable!!! Welcome to Life...)  You need praise, from yourself
    and those close to you, for facing that challenge and conquering
    it every day.  If those close to you neglect praise, remind them
    that you need it.  They love you...they will help you.  Think about
    where it is that you want to go from here, and do not get *impatient*
    with yourself if that answer does not come right away.  Assure yourself
    that you will find your true vocation, if you are, but *patient*!!!
    
    I'm going to check in to some of the aforementioned books.  At least
    I've gotten past my debilitating migraine headaches.  I have yet
    to overcome my susceptibility to colds, stomach problems...I tend
    to take my emotions out on my digestive and respiratory tracts.
    Exercise does help.  So does Meditation/Self-Hypnosis.  If you can
    set aside a half-hour each day to be totally alone in a quiet place
    (this may take some effort, but it can be of paramount importance!)
    and learn meditation and/or self-hypnosis (a therapist will be glad
    to teach you the latter), you will be *surprised and delighted*
    at how much good it can do for the rest of your day.  It is a step-by
    -step process, and I know how it is - any effort seems like it takes
    all of your energy to implement - but get that energy together,
    and try it, do it, work through it!!! - it *can be done*, and
    you *can* dig yourself out of that rut.  Most of all - Be Patient!
    Before you let those impatient, unsatisfied, frustrated emotions
    take over, STOP - breathe, breathe deeply; think about your center
    (that place you find through meditation/self-hypnosis) and let the
    real You shine out, not those layers of protection that keep you
    separate.
    
    You know what I'm going to do?  I'm going to make a printout of
    this.  Know why?
    
    Because there are times I forget...
    
    Good luck, CC - and I'm here with you!
    Meredith

    Here's my little contribution.
    
    Like most of us in this conference, we are here for a reason.  Some
    have been through it all.  And nobody understands like a fellow
    sufferer.
    
    What started me on the path, was to make a conscious decision to
    get better.  I was sick of being sick, blaming air conditioning,
    and all related illnesses I suffered over about four years to anything
    but what my body was telling me.
    
    I found a doctor who believed in alternate medicine and started
    getting to the root of all of it.  It took a year to come out on
    top, but you don't realise it until you look back.
    
    The funny thing is, as soon as I made that decision, all these people
    suddenly appeared and offered names, books, suggestions that lead
    me to this job at Digital, and into (For want of a better word)
    New Age.  I found the strength to go through all sorts of traumas
    that I would normally never have been able to handle.
    
    My former job was with a company who believed women couldn't really
    do much and therefore there was no need to promote them or pay
    them.  (An Australian Company - they all have that attitude).
                                      
    I too have shed the negative environment around me.  That includes
    any people who leech from me, anything at all.  It is amazing how
    much better you feel.  
    
    I feel that having made the decision to ask for help, wonderful
    things will start happening for you.  The negative things will become
    less and less  - ie for every two steps forward, you won't take
    four back, but suddenly you realise its half a step back and then
    suddenly its all downhill.
    
    Just remember you are no longer alone.  We all care.
    
    Cheers.
    
    ...dale
    

    The address to write to for the Bernie Seigel tape is:

Upstate Media Enterprises
Dept. A
P.O. Box 73
Woodstock, NY 12498

The title of the tape is "An Evening with Bernie Seigel". Specify whether
you want VHS or BETA format. And the cost is $49.95, which includes shipping
and handling. I hope that some of what's been written has been helpful to you.

	- Bill

    
    	Thought i would throw this out for comment.
    		WARNING--although the following might tend to
    		make some think i have severe problems, be advised
    		that i am already aware of this, know you are all
    		out to get me, and am happily living in terror.
    
    	I was doing some meditating (pathworking type) and decided to
    visit a certain house. (i wont go into the symbolism cause thats
    what is hysterically tragic)
    	The house was in lousy shape it needed painting, was overgrown
    with wild-flowers/weeds, was the only house on the street, and...
    oh yea... the roof had collapsed.
    	Upon entering i found the place void of furniture, wall paper,
    and covered with dust and dirt. The only reassuring sign was that
    the wood under dirt was still very solid which was surprising to
    me since all was exposed to the elements. (roof had massive hole)
    	Now the fun started. While gazing at the roof i realized i was
    not a carpenter, i didn't know where the nearest lumber supply store
    was, and i didn't have the slightest idea where to start.
    	At this time i considered burning down the house collecting
    the insurance money and moving on, however, the house let out a 
    tremendous yell filled with fear saying "What did i do to deserve
    this!?" and "why can't i just be!" as well as "What did i do
    wrong!?".	Needless to say i did not kill the only talking house
    i ever met.
    	I walked back downstairs and found to my dismay that i could
    not locate the cellar door. (no hidden fears here!!!)
        At this time I ended and walked back home, or walked back home
    and ended.
      	
    	All this is true and actually did occur 3/22/88 at around 16:00.
    I wrote this for two reasons:
    	1)I "woke up" and suddenly realized all the symbollism and laughed
    		hysterically for about 5 Min and am now taking closer
    		looks into what i am doing with/to myself. I would
    		like some other guesses the meanings of this and
    		similar experiances.                            
    	2)To possibly give an example to some readers who have
    		questions about Meditation. (what can meditation 
    		be like?, why meditate, why not learn to spell,ect.)
    	
    	mouse
              

re; < Note 673.24 by USACSB::CBROWN >

>    	Thought i would throw this out for comment.
>    		WARNING--although the following might tend to
>    		make some think i have severe problems, be advised
>    		that i am already aware of this, know you are all
>    		out to get me, and am happily living in terror.

The paranoids are not really after you. ;-)  Neither am I (serious).
    
>    	The house was in lousy shape it needed painting, was overgrown
>    with wild-flowers/weeds, was the only house on the street, and...
>    oh yea... the roof had collapsed.

sounds like your perception of yourself as stated above in the warning...

>    	Upon entering i found the place void of furniture, wall paper,
>    and covered with dust and dirt. The only reassuring sign was that
>    the wood under dirt was still very solid which was surprising to
>    me since all was exposed to the elements. (roof had massive hole)

symbolism;  your base, your foundation, are solid, but what you have built on 
top of it needs to be reworked

>    	Now the fun started. While gazing at the roof i realized i was
>    not a carpenter, i didn't know where the nearest lumber supply store
>    was, and i didn't have the slightest idea where to start.

symbolism;  you're not sure what to do for yourself from here, but you would 
like to start gathering ideas

>    	At this time i considered burning down the house collecting
>    the insurance money and moving on, however, the house let out a 
>    tremendous yell filled with fear saying "What did i do to deserve
>    this!?" and "why can't i just be!" as well as "What did i do
>    wrong!?".	Needless to say i did not kill the only talking house
>    i ever met.

symbolism; you want to change and start over again, but keep the good stuff 
(the foundation?) that holds you together now.  you're not sure why you're in 
the mess you're in, but you still know that there is something special about 
you, and you treasure that knowledge.

>    	I walked back downstairs and found to my dismay that i could
>    not locate the cellar door. (no hidden fears here!!!)

sounds to me like you're tired and drained; too tired to confront the hidden 
aspects of yourself; what's more, you are a bit afraid of those aspects, afraid 
that they might be too big for you to handle

>        At this time I ended and walked back home, or walked back home
>    and ended.

too tired to deal with it...
      	
>    	1)I "woke up" and suddenly realized all the symbollism and laughed
>    		hysterically for about 5 Min and am now taking closer
>    		looks into what i am doing with/to myself. I would
>    		like some other guesses the meanings of this and
>    		similar experiances.                            

hole in roof - too much stimulus from the outside - perhaps a hole in your 
aura; sounds like you really need a break, some rest, some time to reevaluate 
the direction of your life and where you want to go from here; some time to 
evaluate what is special about yourself, and build upon that...there are 
obviously parts of yourself that you value and know are worth keeping.  routine 
can be something of a comfort now; some type of daily routine (even if it's 
just going to work and brushing your teeth before you go to bed and taking a 
shower in the morning...whatever...)...decide what you want, and then go for 
it; present the new repaired you to the world, rather than hiding yourself 
because you feel you're under ill repair (isolated house)

    	mouse
              
why the nickname?

    
    
    > "The paronoids are not really after you."---Easy for you to say
    	the P.O.L.F. isn't delivering Thirty-Eleven Hundred pounds of
    	chain to YOUR home!
    	
    	"sound base" i didn't get that in my interp. i associated basement
    		with base. My base i consider as unknown/unaccesable
    		but consider what i have built on top of this is solid
    		and good.
    
    	"carpenter" going to have to consider paying attention to self
                again. i have been experiancing a rather lax period
    		my life where everything is seemingly flowing into place
    		without me having to do a thing. Unfortunately this
    		attitude has been allowed to flow into other areas
    		halting renovation/discovery and putting off maitanance.
    
    	"why can't i just be. ect" dislike idea of "going *PHOENIX*"
    		change not wanted but i can cope if i dont get too
    		radical with this renovation stuff.
    
    	
    	as far as Tired ect. It is so easy for me to go with that
    	and except that answer. Unfortunately however i believe i am
    	more of a lazy bum. I sleep, eat, go to school, and play chess
    	when not at work and fail to work for anything. If i was to
    	retire today i would like to continue exactly what i did today,
    	and the day before, ect...
    	It might sound nice but i dont think i should be here yet.
    
    Ref mouse: Mice have always appeared in my homes or wherever i happened
    to be when going through some crises. Although i have always had
    a cat or cats, whenever a cat bought one to me as a present the
    mice have been unharmed. I would pat the cat on the head and thank
    him/her/it for the gift and trudge several blocks away and release
    the critter. Mice have also been part of dreams in which i carry
    on conversations with them ect. 
    	But alas... the men with the white coats are here and it is
    time for me to go now..
    	Thank you for your observation! it was no less correct than
    any! any more correct answers anyone???
    
    	M.I.C. see ya real soon!
                                           
    
    		

    I am a new observer, and heretofore non-contributor, to this
    conference.  I started reading these notes, not out of a strong
    interest in things spriritual/mystical/occult, but because of a
    my interest in psychology and behavior.  Re the former, I am probably
    an openminded skeptic (if you'll pardon the oxymoron!).
    
    I think CC's problem is a combination of things that are going on
    with her concurrently - job dissatisfaction being perhaps a symptom
    rather than the disease.  The suggestions made in her behalf were
    all quite good, but never really related to the totality of her
    situation.  For example, how traumatic was her move to DC?  What
    is her situation regarding her relationship with her husband?  The
    fact that she asked for help in the Dejavu conference rather than
    one of the others may indicate a spiritual unrest.  Her lack of
    friendship is a strong indication of other problems, also.  (Low
    feeling of self-worth?)
    
    I believe that those who recommended counselling were on track.
    She doesn't seem to be able to deal with these problems either alone,
    or with the help of her husband.
    
    CC, if your still reading this conference, please know that there
    are a lot of good, caring people out here who want to help.  Please
    get to know some of these people.  Seek out friends, and don't be
    afraid to be on the receiving side of friendship for a while.  When
    you get well again, I'm sure you will pay back their help a
    thousandfold! 
    
    As many others have said,  HANG IN THERE!
    
    All the best,
    
    Jack

    Dear CC,
    
    How are you feeling now? 
    
    Love,
    L

    I just got done writing a quick mail message to some people who
    sent me mail, and gave me their support.
    
    I am doing much better, thanks to everyone's suggestions. I'm not
    as stressed -- I discovered I was trying to do EVERYTHING PERFECT
    and just couldn't do it! You know the feeling, just not enough hours
    in a day.
    
    As for my job, well, that hasn't improved. It's about the same.
    I'm looking at job possibilities in Merrimack and Nashua (I live
    in Maryland) and even had an interview there! But, since I couldn't
    get to start in 2 weeks (due to me having to move) I wasn't the
    "prime" candidate, but I was one of the final ones! It turned out
    to be a very expensive interview, due to the fact that I had to
    pick up the cost to go for the interview. But it was fun!
    
    My husband has a better understanding of what's going on and is
    trying to help me the best way he can -- he's looking for a job
    in New Hampshire. He's much more marketable, due to the fact of
    his level (consultant) and expertise (ALL-IN-1, MAILBUS and a few
    other "goodies). He's already had 1 interview, and we're still waiting
    to hear the status of that. He's not just going to take ANY job;
    he wants something he'll enjoy. But he is willing to relocate for
    me, if that's the only way I can get into an entry level technical
    position. (Is this ridiculous or what? I have to move up NORTH to
    get an ENTRY LEVEL techie position! The Mid-Atlantic Area doesn't
    expect ANY entry level positions till FY91! - How discouraging!)
    
    ANYHOW, school went really well, despite my depression. I got an
    "A" in my class, and was thrilled! That really picked up my spirits!
    
    I've still got some problems, but now I'm seeing them in a different
    perspective, and feeling better. 
    
    Thanks to all that helped me through this, and the ones who are
    continuing their support!
    
    CC (Cheryl)
    

    I just wanted to let all those who cared about me in my bad times
    that what I thought was the problem (my job and my manager) was
    really the problem!
    
    I got a new job about a month ago and LOVE it! I'm doing what I've
    been wanting to do for 3 years, and learning, and just really having
    a great time!
    
    My stress level is down to nothing, and the surroundings are bright
    and cheery!
    
    Thanks again to EVERYONE!
    
    Cheryl

    
    Hi Cheryl,
    
    Where did you end up?  Are you in New England now or did you find
    a new spot where you were at before?
    
    Cindy

    I found a position in the area where I'm currently at (Wash, DC).
    
    I guess it wasn't meant for me to be in the New England area, cause
    I had alot of resumes up there, and had hardly any here. The manager
    I work for now approached ME cause I had sent her my resume over
    a year ago!