| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 664.1 | | FSLENG::JOLLIMORE | For the greatest good... | Thu Mar 03 1988 14:20 | 12 |
| .0 Doug
Tough question. Easier to answer than to do.
Make no judgements.
Make no comparisons.
Delete your need to understand.
This works in everyday life, but I admit if a drunk driver killed a loved
one it would make it much harder!
Jay
|
| 664.2 | no simple task, but some thoughts | INK::KALLIS | A Dhole isn't a political animal. | Thu Mar 03 1988 14:29 | 30 |
| Re .0 (Doug):
>How can we (or should we) maintain love for *all* people, regardless
>of what they do, and how can we avoid ways of thinking that seemingly
>have led us to justify war in the past?
Actually, these are two (or three) separate questions.
1) I cannot say how we _can_, but I can say how I feel we _ought
to be able to_ maintain love for all people. "Love" in this case
doesn't mean "acceptance of everything they do." I know someone
who's a nice guy but who has stolen from his family, lied, cheated,
and the like. Now, his family members _love_ him, but they don't
like him (paradoxical sounding, but true). They tend not to trust
him, but will embrace him and always be dewey-eyed when they've
seen him after an extended absence.
Now, people can be misguided, mean, or crazy. You can hate the
actions without necessarily hating the person.
2) War is another matter. If attacked, it's correct to defend oneself.
But that doesn't necessarily mean you _like_ the idea of taking
out the person attacking you. And you don't have time to "sit and
reason together."
_Initiating_ a war (i.e., aggressing) is something harder to justify.
I won't attempt to generalize how thatcan be condoned.
Steve Kallis, Jr.
|
| 664.3 | Practice in Daily Life | ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI | | Thu Mar 03 1988 14:34 | 37 |
|
I'd say the root of the matter is your personal aptitude for
acceptance of things. This is not always easy or even necessary,
so, you also have to "have the wisdom to know the difference"
between that which cant be changed and that which can or perhaps
even should be changed.
The best place to start developing you aptitude is right in
your own daily life. You go to a Deli for lunch - and the line is
out the door... Can you accept the fact, or do you go storming off
to a different establishment? Driving, especially here on Mass,
is another excellent forum for this development. Say someone cuts
you off aggressively. Can you accept their action as coming from
their own insecure consciousness level or do you let it take *you*
down there too - as you go speeding after them with vengeful intent?
The best way to deal with an issue coming from someone's particular
consciousness level is to *not* fight it on the same level. Motivation
must be positive in context, and, the best methods of contention are
always those which show an example of nobler behavior. Recognition
of where a person is coming from, in terms of consciousness level,
is necessary. Doing that in real time is some trick, believe me...the
time to start thinking about it is right when you feel like tearing
someone in half - if you can "let go" of the feeling completely
within an hour or so, you're doing pretty good.
The "binder" that keeps things like "war" going is simple
addiction. Most think of a chemical substance when the word is
mentioned, but its been shown the us humans can become addicted
to a myriad of things, not the least of which are POWER and SECURITY.
It's easy to see how an addiction to POWER can make anger *burn*
when someone being rendered inneffective at something they normally
control.
Joe Jas
Joe Jas
|
| 664.4 | UNDERSTANDING COMES FROM WITHIN! | NEXUS::ENTLER | | Thu Mar 03 1988 14:44 | 54 |
| If at first you level with yourself and accept the fact that
no matter how hard you try to deal with various situations, eventually
your personal feelings may indeed win out, then you have reached
the first level of understanding! That being that you are only
human, and like all humans, at one time or another we make mistakes.
Second, [We all make mistakes] how true, but what do we gain
by those mistakes? If nothing, then no doubt you will probably
make the same mistakes over and over again until you come to realize
your own mistakes. We do in fact, LEARN BY EXPERIENCE! We are
creatures of experience, from the day of birth until death. Some
people proceed through life without ever trying to understand some
personal experience they have had! Without asking themselves why
something occured the way it did? Or how it could have been handled
differently? Or what they really gained by it?
Without occasionally taking to time to ponder such questions
you are not really gaining anything out of life or experience as
it may be. Experience does not have to be personal, it can be in
the form of second or third person. Such as experiences that a
close personal friend has had, or things told to you by a close
friend about others, or on the news.
True that when some things occur, such as a death of a close
friend, you can ask yourself why, but often there are no apparent
answers. Perhaps in these situations, the real answers lie not
in the experience of the death itself, but in the experience of
how you cope with the situation!
Third with a fairly good understanding of the above paragraphs,
then you must be willing to exchange places, not in body, but in
mind, with the situation or person, place or thing. Try to white
wash your brain for the moment from all preconceived ideas. Try
to realized the other position, what may have occured, how they
may have been brought up, their religious beliefs, their education,
etc. Then you may, not always, but may find a better understanding
in experience, and be able to cope with situations, peoples, and
day to day confrontations. You may eventually find that you can
glide through life on a much smoother plain, feeling much better
about yourself!
As for the mention of the continuing conflicts we hear about
daily in the Middle East, I myself, and I'm sure many others are
continually asking themselves, "WHY?" Problems here are too deep
routed thoughout history. There are no simple answers. If there
were, then there would be no problems in the Middle East. It is
even harder to try to place ourselves in their position unless you
may possibly have been there at one time or another. Perhaps the
only thing that you can hopefully gain by observing such an experience
as the continuing conflicts you hear about from there, is the internal
acceptance and understanding that you will have the knowledge and
will power to never carry such hatred for so long, nor pass that
hatred on to your offspring.
Your first steps have already been taken, for you have already
began asking yourself the questions of LIFE?
|
| 664.5 | Taking Offense | ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI | | Thu Mar 03 1988 15:38 | 24 |
|
Do we "take offense" to the actions of someone else almost
automatically? Lets look at what taking offense really means...
One way to look at it is as a consciousness state change which
was induced by the situation. Normally, when one is offended by
something, the consciousness level is lowered to be commensurate
with that of the offending party. You may have noticed most retorts
are offered on the very same level as was the original offense;
the ol "eye for an eye" logic.
Trouble is, when you let your consciousness level be taken down
by taking offense, the example you set for others tends to propagate
the negativity that was (typically) manefest in the original act. The
mode of propagation is geometrical, in other words *fast*, so in
no time everybodies doing it, or, has got it in them.
This is not to say that you cannot be offended by something you
read or see or have happen to you. It's simply a matter of how you
choose to deal with it. You can do so in a positive context in an
attempt to raise the consciousness state of those involved -or- you
can enforce and validate the negativity by choosing to contend with
it in it's own home turf - usually a wrinkle in someone's security
blanket!
Joe Jas
|
| 664.6 | Sometimes feeling hate is natural | MTBLUE::DUCHARME_GEO | | Thu Mar 03 1988 15:39 | 8 |
| I believe to understand all is to forgive all.This understanding
must also be given to yourself.If you come in contact with someone
who has directly or indirectly caused you great sorrow you will be
angry.A person can understand and be furious at the same time,but
the understanding helps when making the decision of how to express
the anger.
George D.
|
| 664.7 | Karma | GENRAL::DANIEL | If it's sloppy, eat over the sink. | Thu Mar 03 1988 18:15 | 24 |
| What one puts out, one gets back (does the Bible say threefold, or
tenfold??).
If I take it upon myself to "even it up" with someone who has
felled a blow upon me, I *may* help them to resolve their karma,
but what have I done to mine? My meditations answer that I still
have the karma of having received the blow, but, in addition, I
have the extra karma of having generated a blow (created a new debt
rather than cancelling one).
However, if someone comes at me with a knife, and I have a knife
hidden, I will go for the knife in an effort to save my own life.
There are exceptions to every rule; if someone is trying to take my
life, I will defend it. If someone steals my possessions, I will not
steal from them. I will lose my attachment to what has been stolen,
and I will have the patience to replace anything of importance to me;
look at what has been stolen as being given to the Universe, which has
generated good Karma for me, and left open space for things to come in
to me (threefold...tenfold...).
We do not always know from what standpoint another is acting, nor
just what kind of karma is being generated; by reacting with hostility,
hate, negativity, we involve ourselves in ways of which we may not
be aware, and for which we will have karmic debt to pay.
|
| 664.8 | concepts concepts concepts | USACSB::CBROWN | | Fri Mar 04 1988 02:27 | 41 |
|
Perhaps separating the deed from the person is one way.
We all have been damaged by someones actions but it was the
actions that have hurt us not the person.
I love people. I sometimes dislike what people do.
Someting I read once went like this...
"No other law but love I know,
By naught but love may I be known,
and all that liveth is my own,
From me they come, to me they go."
Ref. "why"
"If Will stops and crys WHY, invoking
Because, then Will stops & does nought."
"If Power asks why, then Power is weakness."
"Also reason is a lie; for there is a
factor infinite & unknown; & all their
words are are skew-wise."
another concept...
Some people believe in reincarnation/multiple lives,
in which each time they return they will learn a general lesson.
(this is greatly condensed but has concept)
A woman who lost a son to a drunk driver explained to me
that her son had learned his lesson and there was no longer
a reason for him to exist here.
Her lesson was to learn to work out the grief and sorrow
that she was experiancing.
The drivers lesson could be any number of things.
cb
|
| 664.9 | | SPIDER::PARE | What a long, strange trip its been | Tue Mar 08 1988 22:49 | 8 |
| Hate and violence and anger are a trap. They can suck in all who pause
to experience a dark emotion. These are said to be the last of
the nine hells. The Dark lives in fear and hate and violence.
Don't allow it inside of you. Know that (to coin a phrase) what
goes around, comes around. We must all deal with our own karma.
Everybody will get back what they do three times over. Every act
of violence and cruelty and injustice will return to it's originator.
Walk in the light and have faith.
|
| 664.10 | Who determines what and for how long? | WRO8A::GUEST_TMP | HOME, in spite of my ego! | Wed Mar 09 1988 02:34 | 100 |
| I think that this is a very "good" question to raise. I,
personally, have had a great deal of difficulty in working out
satisfying answers to it. What I have learned AT LEAST logically,
is that love starts from within. From there it radiates "outwardly"
to significant others, others, and then all-else. Emotionally,
I have had a more tenuous time with the concepts of love and the
"negative" feelings of rage, hate, and other forms of anger. At
times it seems that I detach myself to the point of coldness,
insensitivity, or even apathy (apathy being the opposite of love.)
When that happens, I look again to make sure that that isn't the
case. What I have discovered (not only through teachings but from
actual observation of myself) is that I cope with my reality better
by showing/feeling compassion but not necessarily attachment. In
other words, I do not have to be a part of anyone else's "shitty
reality" from their point of view, though I can have compassion
for whatever feelings they have. I am responsible for my own feelings
and can, at least after "x" amount of time, direct them however
I desire. I am "allowed" to feel anything that a human can feel,
for I am a human. This includes anger, jealousy, fear, etc. along
with happiness, love, security, etc. And, this is a real revelation
to me, I can turn those emotions on or off. All I have to do to
alter a feeling is to alter the thoughts I hold. All I have to
do is to think about an event, etc. that holds a feeling that I
want to replace a current one with, and I can have that new feeling.
This being said, it is not necessarily easy to implement (for
me, and I suspect, or for others.) There are many emotions we have
and that we express that are or could be considered as "knee-jerk"
responses. Someone pulls out a gun in front of you and starts
shooting...I'm sure all of us would have an immediate reaction to
that. And all of us would have our own private emotional reactions,
as well. Yours would probably be at least a bit different from
mine; no more right or wrong than mine, however. Later, we have
an opportunity to "more consciously" hold that feeling or any other
feeling. It then becomes more of an "obvious" choice. This is
where I have "learned" that it is important to express whatever
emotion is felt. It is important to release the emotion, whether
it is positive OR negative, rather than to suppress it.
Two weeks ago I was with a woman friend of mine who told me that
she recently went through some sort of rebirthing therapy. In it
she "remembered" that ten years ago she had been raped by an unknown
man. What was the result of that suppression (she says that she
had no conscious memory of the event?) She gained about 70 pounds,
has had difficulty in forming/maintaining relationships, (has) a
poor self-image, is an extremely sloppy housekeeper, etc. While
all of this may not be attributed to the rape and its suppression,
expressing it has caused her to become interested in changing many
of those situations. The point is that suppressing emotions is
harmful, even extremely harmful.
If that is so, then the issue becomes one of what to do with
the emotion to express it. (The MEANS, therefore, become quite
relevant.) Well, it depends on the emotion. It also depends on
each individual. I am not going to attempt to recite each emotion
I can think of here and the many different ways that there are to
express/release each one. There ARE, however, sources for learning
how to do that.
There are many "what if"s. What if some heinous thing happens
to you (emotionally or physically, for example?) You *could*
hang on to that RIGHTEOUSLY for as long as you are alive (and perhaps
longer.) What purpose would that serve? Would that not block out
the potential for feeling good ever again? Would it not also serve
as a "bummer" for all those with whom you came in contact? Remember,
you have a "right" to hold onto that feeling. No one would ever
argue with you and say that you don't have a "right" to have the
feeling you do. But is it worth it? To what "ends" do you carry
that feeling? And what happens to whatever life you might have
had by maintaining that feeling?
From my point of view, life may as well end right there (and
in many cases it apparently does) for the rest of this life is
"doomed." Whether it is slow, dramatic, quick or whatever, the
result will be predictable. I think that it is better to work
with as much speed as possible to release that emotion. We
seemingly cannot change events past, but we readily acknowledge
that we can change our interpretations of them. We also
seemingly agree that life is for the "living." Life can be fun,
regardless of whatever pain we've experienced. It therefore seems
to me that it behooves us to pursue that happiness and fun by
seeking out whatever love we can offer and receive. I know that
this may not be easy, though it is very simple. What can we do?
We can practice and work at it. I have practiced and worked at
releasing many of the hurts that I have felt in my life and I can
honestly say that I feel much better about myself than I have so
many other times previously in my life. I can also say that I
do not allow myself to be sucked into the "shitty" emotions
as often, and, when I do, I am much more quick about pulling
myself out. Eventually, I find myself feeling at least relatively
happy.
I have been successful in doing most of what I just wrote
about. What my own personal next step is is to "avoid" the
unwanted emotion in the first place. This is more difficult,
but my experience so far seems to support the concept of being
able to do just exactly that. As the concept of creating my own
reality seems to be validated, so does the apparent "success rate"
of guiding or controlling my own emotions.
I encourage others to spend time thinking about these ideas,
thoughts, concepts, feelings, etc. I think that they are crucial
to understanding oneself and the reality in which he/she resides.
Frederick
|
| 664.11 | well, if it works..... | USACSB::CBROWN | | Thu Mar 10 1988 02:55 | 35 |
|
Re:10
By trying to "avoid" emotions of any sort I have found
the following to be true (for me).
1)By limiting emotions to those that I only enjoy
can hurt, do to the fact that if I do not experiance the low
or non-positive emotions I will be unable to recognize the
positive. (how can I understand and continue to understand
HOT if I take Cold out of my life?)
2)Emotions that I have trouble with (Neg-Emotions)
I find are best handled by plunging into them untill
they no longer are worth avoiding. Once they are no longer
worth avoiding they can be accepted and although will cause
discomfort I can then make logical decisions without
having the influence of the "Negative" emotion.
3)Once emotions can be accepted without influencing
logic we can rechannel the energy caused by the Neg into
the required response of LOVE.
4)I find it impossible to avoid anything that is
harmful to myself for an extended period of time. For this
reason avoiding emotion would only result in neg-emotions
building up into a mass of twisting fears in my closet waiting
for me to go to sleep so they can do horrible things to me!!!!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
b.s.
HESED and GEBURAH
Love is the LAW.
|
| 664.12 | ...just sincerely WILL... | WRO8A::GUEST_TMP | HOME, in spite of my ego! | Thu Mar 10 1988 22:50 | 50 |
| re: 664.11
Obviously, you've done some thinking on the matter.
Based on my current understandings, I'd say there is room
for more useful interpretations. More useful because there is less
despair in them than in the ideas you put forth. Much of what
I am saying here is based on information given to us by Lazaris.
So far I have been unable to find anything better, so I can
recommend it as much or more than any other source.
1. What you say in this is reasonable. However, try this out for
size: You do NOT have to actually experience the so-called
negative emotion. "All" you have to do is to be WILLING to
experience it. Say that a few times and see if you can "see"
the distinction. Additionally, as we have discussed elsewhere
in this notesfiles, you can experience these things meditationally
and accomplish virtually the same thing.
2. I do not understand what you mean by no longer worth avoiding.
This reminds me of the TM or related disciplines that have us
looking for the space "between thoughts." In other words,
you are going to feel it unless you exhaust yourself avoiding
the feelings. Why work so hard (and struggle, etc.) to avoid
whatever you feel? That is *not* what I meant. I have not
yet succeeded for any length of time, but what I meant was that
we can bring "positive" thoughts "in" consciously and thereby
bump the "negative" thoughts out of the way.
3. I more or less agree with this thought but again I refer you
to the concept of WILLINGNESS rather than actual doingness.
4. This sounds like (2.)
Lazaris has clearly stated that we would be better off if we
realized that the only negative emotions are those which are
unexpressed. Further, REAL emotions are those which have both
a positive and negative potential. Love, anger, hurt, fear...
are examples of REAL emotions. They all have both a positive and
a negative potential. Guilt is an example of an artificial emotion,
in Lazaris' terms. Why? Because there is not a positive potential
in guilt. Guilt is ONLY destructive. Additionally, guilt is really
anger that we feel we don't have a "right" to. It must be converted
to anger before it can be "released." Guilt cannot be processed
out...it must first be converted to anger, which CAN be processed
out. I will stop at this, but obviously there is more.
BTW, what is HESED and GEBURAH? Is that sort of like Sodom and
Gemorrah?
Frederick
|
| 664.13 | there is obviously more but.... | USACSB::CBROWN | | Fri Mar 11 1988 05:31 | 58 |
|
re: .12
So little time so much to say / so little to say so much time
1)I think I see the distinction but possibly not.
seems to me...
"you do not have to experiance water to
receive its benifits."
is it only enough that i am "willing to
experiance water????
no, i must taste, swallow and have my body
process and use the water in order for me to
benifit.
2) All emotions cary with them lessons or lessons carry with
them emotions. if i bump one out of the way and/or replace
it with a more comfortable feeling i would end up an adult
with the emotional stature of a non-developing child.
[THE STRONG SOCIOLOGICAL STATEMENT FOR TODAY]
3) ALL emotions and sub-emotions can be positive or transfered
positivly.
Guilt (i feel) is left over emotional energy that remains
restless and fustrating. It results when we believe we have
failed to apply ourselves to any situation and is usually
handled by anger. this however is not a LAW.
EX: Children who have parents w/unfulfilled ambitions.
(children usually inherit this)
These people need only to recognize the fear that their
parents "bumped" (and in so doing halted any future growth)
and work the fear through in their own life.
How do you learn to process in ways other than anger?
By listening to emotions and applying inteligence to
focus the energy in a benificial way.
HESED and GEBURAH
(both sons of the famous Malchome Kuth)
Seriously now if you can read my spelling....
Both are points on the Tree Of Life
Geburah (power) #5 and Hesed (love) #4
The path between them is strength.
"there is obviously more......"
Musical Chairs...The one who is holding the bad energy when the
music stops is a loser. Stop The wheel of Karma!! Be enlightened!!
If not you, who?
if not now, when?
if not here, where?
But dont worry cause this is a lie too.
|
| 664.14 | amplification | INK::KALLIS | Why is everyone getting uptight? | Fri Mar 11 1988 08:53 | 13 |
| Re .13:
> Both are points on the Tree Of Life
> Geburah (power) #5 and Hesed (love) #4
The Tree of Life is also known as the Qabbahalistic Tree; the two
points ("Hesed" is often also spelled "CHesed") are called "Sephira."
I'll see your Chesed and Geburah and raise with Chokmah amd Binah
(Wisdom and Understanding) [two othjer Sephira]. :-)
Steve Kallis, Jr.
|
| 664.15 | Needs a tune-up! | WRO8A::GUEST_TMP | HOME, in spite of my ego! | Fri Mar 11 1988 23:58 | 32 |
| re: .13
That was okay (from my discerning perspective) but it could
stand some clarification (at least from the defense of my earlier
statement's point of view.)
1. I was speaking about emotions. Even so, one could carry your
argument to an extreme (say, a breatharian's point of view) and
make it "hold water." The BELIEFS which support the reality are
what is important here. Obviously, most of us do not believe we
could live without water. (It is EXTREMELY difficult to change
some CORE beliefs...it is quite possible to do so, however.)
Actually, it isn't difficult at all if the WILLINGNESS is present.
2. I think your argument here is coming from a sense of fear.
Who says that you will create such a void and be left in some sort
of child-like vacuum if you have comfortable thoughts/feelings?
I think this is an argument that is used because it is so difficult
for people to imagine a world that only has love, joy, happiness,
fun, etc. in it. What you have done in this statement is to
reinforce a statement I quoted from Lazaris made a few months ago
and entered in note 358.98...that is that Fear is much easier to sell
than positive energy. Also see note 494.5 for related approaches.
3. I don't have much to say about this statement. Especially
since it basically seems to support what I related earlier.
Thanks for the Tree of Life, Quaballah reminders. I did not
recognize them (there are already notes about this in the conference
but I have not memorized them and don't consciously work with this
information.)
Frederick
|
| 664.16 | who doesn't | USACSB::CBROWN | | Sat Mar 12 1988 07:47 | 35 |
|
Re: 15
1. i was writing about emotions.
also i do agree that willingnes and doing without
is not that difficult. i hear all you really have
to do is not breath.
2. logic tends to say that when you come upon a new experiance
you can ignore or explore it.
Ignoring or bumping/repelling instead of exploring
cheats the ignorant one of the discovery of himself.
In this case causing a gap/void in possible development
that someone who has explored will not have.
A world of only love, joy, and happiness.....
i do not wish to be "a little clown of happy town"
Life cannot exist without death as somewhat stated before.
However... Death also makes life richer by making it
temporary and thus greatly treasured.
so it is also with Joy.(would it be as pleasurable
if sorrow could not take it??
Also... You have said fear is easier to sell in society.
(Just look at the news) Imagin how much more fear would
worth to us if there was none of it. Persons who control
small fears would be able to use them to control us
all. the possibilitys are endless.
Finally i would like to make an observation.
Old Laz and Aleister C. may have some differences.
|
| 664.17 | Always clowning around! | WRO8A::GUEST_TMP | HOME, in spite of my ego! | Mon Mar 14 1988 21:05 | 7 |
| re: -.1
I hope you find a lot of happiness in all the pain you seek.
your happy little clown from the happy little town,
Frederick
|
| 664.18 | S & M THE WAY TO GO !!!! | USACSB::CBROWN | | Tue Mar 15 1988 02:31 | 16 |
|
happiness (yuck) no-way, but rather contentment continuously!
Learning and pain. life and death,
vs
comfortably numb for eternity.
someone around here wrote: "Heaven-a completely useless state"
Philadelphia Freedom:
Good Questions!
Great Answers!!
All Lies!!!
|
| 664.19 | Balance. | GENRAL::DANIEL | If it's sloppy, eat over the sink. | Wed Mar 16 1988 13:51 | 13 |
| Oh, man, how morose, how gross!! If you want to learn in a martyristic
manner, be my guest, but don't tell me that's the only method of
learning available and expect me to buy in to it.
To me, life is balance. You can learn through pain. You can also
learn through happiness. You can celebrate what you have learned.
You can bum out because of what you have learned.
You have a right to be happy. Knowing unhappiness makes happiness
all the more valuable. But happiness does not preclude learning.
Remember, you can forget to learn because you get too far in to
your pain, the same way that you can forget to learn because you
get too far in to your happiness.
|
| 664.20 | balance by extreeemes | USACSB::CBROWN | | Fri Mar 18 1988 02:08 | 23 |
|
RE;19
Agreed!! hence "ALL LIES" meaning what is truth for
one is not truth for all. i never ment to say it was the way nor
do i expect anyone (including myself) to take my comments (or anyones)
as 100% serious.(or serious at all)
note:please do not confuse "not serious" with "disresppectfull"
All concepts must be tempered with common sense,humor,and chaos
or life would not be any fun.(or real)
Ref. morose and gross
"life is balance" and these help out to balance happiness
and beauty.
sincerly but not seriously,
Rahab.
|
| 664.21 | The most important challenge for a human being | SCOMAN::HAKIM | | Fri Mar 25 1988 11:15 | 102 |
|
Re: .0
Doug, I will try to address three concepts in this reply; Why should we love
others regardless of their actions; How can we love everyone regardless of our
impressions of their actions; and What do we do to control our feelings, thus
our reactions towards others' behavior or actions. You have mentioned;
> How can we (or should we) maintain love for *all* people, regardless
> of what they do, and how can we avoid ways of thinking that seemingly
> have led us to justify war in the past?
> In other words, it's easy
> to say "sure, I have brotherly love for all people", but when a
> drunk driver kills a loved one, that brotherly love seems to
> disintegrate into blind rage and a desire for vengeance.
Why should we love others!?
The answer to this question lies in the understanding the term evil and what it
implies. Since this is good or evil that induces the feeling of love or hate in
a person, (outside of parent-children relationship). Such understanding can
therefore help one to regulate one's feelings towards other individuals more
effectively.
Evil is no more than a definition and a relative phenomenon. That is to say
that there in no such a thing as an evil entity, force, etc... outside of the
promptings of human self, which is the only cause of evil actions in the realm
of human existence. Evil does not exist in itself, these are the evildoers and
evil actions that have real existence.
Evildoing is fundamentally the result of either ignorance or selfishness of the
evildoer. Any lasting solution to either one of these shortcomings (ignorance &
selfishness) is not to be found in rage, hatred and vengeance directed towards
the evildoer. The solution to this problem is to be found in understanding the
reasons behind evildoer's motives, identifying the solution and addressing the
shortcoming through education. It is due to genuine love that we can hope to
understand. It is out of love that one could educate another. Feelings of rage
hatred and vengeance can only form an unsurpassable barrier between a person
and the evildoer, or the society and the problem of evil. This is why human
beings are directed through religious teachings to love everyone. Since love
prevents the formation of unseen mental barriers between people and their
problems, and removes one of the most fundamental problems in human interaction
within a society.
An important issue to remember is that loving everyone on personal level must
not prevent justice from being applied to the actions of the evildoer on a
social level. Since justice preserves the integrity of the society, and that
must remain intact. Society can not apply love to the problem of evil. Great
religions have always promoted the concepts of forgiveness towards others on a
personal level and justice on a social level.
The next question to be address is; How is it possible; on a personal level,
to love everyone (i.e. evildoers, personal enemies, people whose behavior we do
not approve of), without being biased by our situational impressions? This is
the most important question to be answered, and the answer to this question
lies in one's love for the Creator (i.e. God). The following quotation will
hopefully clarify this point:
"There are two kinds of love: one is direct love which proceeds from a person
to another person; the other is indirect love -that is to love an object for
another's sake. Now we must love our enemies for God's sake and because He has
created them; we must love them and not for their own personality.
For instance, if your beloved sends you a rose, you appreciate it, kiss it and
it is valuable to you. This love is not regarding the personality of the thing
[i.e. the rose] itself, but for the sake of the one who has sent it to you. We
must love the house for its owner's sake."
Abdu'l-Baha (Baha'i Writings)
Furthermore you have raised the question of how are we to deal with our feelings
of hate rage and frustration. You mentioned;
> I'm interested
> in what you may have discovered, that allows you to stoically accept
> these type things, with compassion and pity for the people who did
> them, rather than wanting to physically attack them. Surely there
> is a higher way of dealing with these feelings.
We are prisoners of our situational impressions of other people. When one
individual harms another human being, such action raises the feelings of rage
in the observer; when one encounters injustice, one tends to become angry.
There are many situations in this life which are born out of human interactions,
most of which are not particularly love promoting in nature. As a result of
such encounters, human impulses of anger, disappointment, hate, etc... manifest
themselves in our actions.
God-given human abilities and attributes are all wonderful and good. God has
not created anything bad or evil in nature. It is important, not to suppress
such fundamental feelings by considering them as harmful and bad, but to
redirect them. Feelings of hate, rage and anger are just as wonderful as
feelings of understanding, love, mercy and compassion, depending on where and
when they are applied. If we learn to focus our feelings of hate, rage and
dissatisfaction (i.e. our negative feelings), towards EVIL ACTIONS; and focus
our feelings of love, mercy and understanding (i.e. our positive feelings),
towards the EVILDOER, then, we have exercised the utmost degree of perfection
in the realm of human existence.
I hope that I have been able to address parts of the question you have raised.
Regards,
Kamran Hakim
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| 664.22 | Thanks, sorry for being so slow... | GLDOA::WETHERINGTON | | Tue May 10 1988 15:09 | 9 |
| Well, I'm still catching up on these replies, after a hiatus from
these notesfiles. I need to catch up on the replies here as soon as I
can, as they seem to tie into a discussion I'm getting into in the 10
Commandments note.
Thanks to all of you for your input, and I will catch up on this
topic as soon as time permits.
Doug
|