Conference hydra::dejavu

    
    	I'll explore!
    
    	Related to the chakras (it seems) are the so called "levels
    of consciousness" that people operate from. The quest for material
    enhancements in life may come from a consciousness level called
    the sensation level. You can imagine that many, many things that
    people do are inspired by the cybernetic operations within the 
    "sensation shell" of their programming.
    	Some of the replies to the "What turns you on" note in H_R
    illustrate this, the one that comes to mind is the guy with the
    1100 cc motorcycle. Dont get me wrong , I own a 650 cc motorcycle
    myself and have "gotten off" on the sensation of crankin 'er around
    a corner many times - it's fun! I also play guitar and own all the
    materials necessary to blow my eardrums right out of my head, if
    I so choose. (The amplifier has printed warnings about it's
    capabilities with respect to ear damage) Still, it's quite obvious
    that there is a sensation need of many guitarists for this capability
    - otherwise there would be no market for such a device.
    	Noters here in DEJA may be, in general, on the average, somewhat
    *above* entrapment in the "sensation" level of consciousness. It
    seems people here are readers of books and explorers of the inner
    spaces; well versed at "doing within" during times when they may
    have to "do without". Those who are materialists, need that new
    shiny '88 model to be at ease with themselves, may not be so well
    versed at doing within while they do without.
    
    	But, for all I know, *everyone* who notes here get their jollys
    from a good parachute jump every once in a while :')
    
    	Joe Jas
               

    "Materialism" can mean "getting pleasure/satisfaction out of material
    possessions," or it may mean "the nonspiritual view of the workings
    of the cosmos."
    
    In the first category, I suspect it's putting up a false barrier
    to believe that there's something wrong with enjoying material things.
    Where the problem comes in is when one gets obsessed with them.
    
    The same is true of the spiritual realm, BTW.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    I don't know Steve.  If the questions deals with values and priorities
    than materialism says a great deal about the person.  Personal
    integrity is often shadowed in the light of materialism.
    Mary

    Re .3 (Mary):
    
    > ...  If the questions deals with values and priorities
    >than materialism says a great deal about the person.  ...
    
    I think you misunderstand.  One problem that people occasionally
    make is automatically to put "materialism" and "spirituality" as
    diametrics.  One of the things about _enjoying_ material things
    is that one need not _need_ them, or even persue them as active
    goals.  That is to say, if you can _let go_ at any time, then there's
    no reason not to enjoy those things that are around.
    
    >......................................   Personal
    >integrity is often shadowed in the light of materialism.
    
    _If_ the person isn't able to let go.  Establishing priorities has
    always been important in getting one's life together.  
                     
    
    I don't disagree with the idea that spiritual development has a
    far higher value than the enjoyment of material objects.  I do question
    the implication that the only way to spiritual growth is through
    asceticism.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    ....then, there's symbolism, which kind-of involves CYOR again.
    Your car, for example, vibrates to the third house of your horoscope;
    how your car is doing will tell you how you are doing in that area
    (this, coming from a woman facing a brake job after having just
    gotten a bearing replaced).  Some folks, in rituals, use different
    material objects to represent something "greater".  This is also
    true without rituals.  Objects have their representative values.
    
    I think the greatest area of concern is consumerism to hide from
    one's self.  Need to fulfill an emptiness within?  *Here! A brand-
    new car!*  Soothe your anger with a multi-million-dollar mansion!
    It is when the material world and its offerings are used to *replace*
    inner growth that there is need for concern.  That's the same as
    looking to the outer world to solve problems, rather than looking
    within, and building the terra-firma of the soul.  I think there
    is no true fulfillment from the things you get from the outside,
    unless there is also a corresponding fulfillment on the inside.

    Call it want without limit.  Seems like the word materialism means
    the things in the world run a persons life.  Being so  run, leaves
    no room to be conscious, aware and alive enough to consider spiritual
    values.
    
    Running down the increment towards ascetism, sitting on a mountain
    top with robe and begging bowl may suit others as their means to
    spititual enfoldment, and it isn't my bag.  So to me having material
    goods and the goods not having me produces the same result.
    
    someone once said: "Even Zen Masters have dirty thoughts"
    
    
    
    I know, I know Margaret, it's too adult for them....
    L.

    re: .5 (Meredith)
    
    >>	Your car, for example, vibrates to the third house of your 
    >>	horoscope; how your car is doing will tell you how you are 
    >>	doing in that area...
    
    	I have no idea what my third house is (heck, I still live 
    	in an *apartment*  ;-) ), but I must be running pretty darn
    	smoooooothly since my car got a tune-up and a new muffler
    	last Friday!!!
    
    						Carla
    

    
    
    	Meridith,
    
    	Can you expand on this horoscope vibration pattern (i.e. the
    3rd house & your car correspond).

    I'll tell you what I know here; I'll go home and find more information
    and continue on later, and I will give the address of the place
    where I first learned all of what I have learned (there is still
    so much more!).
    
    The 1st house, ascendant, of your horoscope, corresponds to your
    ego/the You that everyone else sees. The 5th house corresponds to
    friends and lovers.  The 7th house corresponds to your Shadow side
    (all the qualities that you say are "not you") as well as people
    with whom you live; people to whom you are, or have been, married;
    people with whom you have conceived a child (whether or not the
    child was born).  The 8th house represents sex, death and taxes
    (I hear you chortling out there!)...this is not complete at all,
    and as I said earlier, I will find the chart which lists all of
    the attitude/people/object correspondances and write it out for
    you.
    
    
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    Meredith