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Conference hydra::dejavu

Title:Psychic Phenomena
Notice:Please read note 1.0-1.* before writing
Moderator:JARETH::PAINTER
Created:Wed Jan 22 1986
Last Modified:Tue May 27 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2143
Total number of notes:41773

637.0. "Who's In Control Of Your Life?" by SSDEVO::ACKLEY (Aslan) Mon Jan 25 1988 23:24

    Pick one, or maybe some combination;
    
    	A)  You are in control.  You create your own reality.
        B)  Your subconscious mind is in control.   It influences your
    		emotions and thoughts, perhaps from past conditioning.
        C)  Society is in control.  The influence of the masses or of
                a dominant few, are a determinant of our lives.
        D)  God is in control.
        E)  Spirits influence us, perhaps through telepathy or by
                arranging coincidences.
	F)  Aliens are in control.
        
    	Well, maybe I missed somebody's favorite, but those are the
    possibilities as I see it.   Freud might have voted for A + B + C.
    I'd vote for A + B + C + D + E, and maybe even F if some evidence
    ever comes my way.
    
    	Alan.
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637.1ycyor? harrumph!SSDEVO::ACKLEYAslanMon Jan 25 1988 23:2755
	YCYOR? (you create your own reality)    harrumph.  I can't
    buy just option A alone as the answer;

	Since this is Dejavu, I'll make my argument against YCYOR in
    terms of astrology.    In astrology the universe is represented
    by the circular mandalla.   The symbols divide the chaos of the
    world into graspable concepts.    The division I wish to make
    use of here is the three way division of Cardinal : Fixed : Mutable.

      (for those of you who don't know astrology well, there is also
      a four way division of Earth : Air : Water : Fire.   All the 
      possible combinations of 3 x 4 gives the twelve signs.)

    I was taught the following meanings for these three concepts, this
    is in my own words though;

	CARDINAL: those elements of the universe that the person controls,
	          or feels a sense of control with. 

	FIXED:    those elements of the world that are controlled through
                  ritual, or rules and regulations.   You may control the
                  world to some extent through your rules, but your rules
		  will also control you to the same extent.

	MUTABLE:  those elements of the world that have influence over a
		  person, that can make you change, even perhaps against
		  your will.

    Of course there is more to it than these simplistic descriptions.
    But I hope you begin to see my meaning here.   Some people are more
    "cardinal" than others, and so can perhaps create their own realities.
    Others of us are caught in "fixed" realities (jobs!) that we are only 
    partially or ritually in control of.   Then most of us are also 
    "mutable" at times, particularly in close relationships, when we let 
    others close enough to change us.    

	In an astrology chart, each person would have a certain number of 
    their planets in "cardinal" signs (or perhaps none!) and a proportion
    in the fixed or mutable signs.   From an astrological viewpoint, then,
    I would doubt that the person with no cardinal influence in their
    chart could feel much in control of creating their own reality.

	*But*, there are moments when we *can* feel that perfect sense of
    control and ability.   In those moments a person can become entirely
    cardinal, in the same way an actor might become entirely childlike,
    or express any other pure archetypal quality.   So, I want to stress
    here, that that *feeling* of cardinality, expressed in the belief of
    YCYOR (you create your own reality) is valid, and I think each of us
    should be able to experience such feelings from time to time.

	YCYOR can, however, become a false belief if these feelings are 
    generalized into a belief that *all* of the universe is subject to 
    our cardinal will.   It is not.

	Alan.
637.2everybody has their favorite...SSDEVO::ACKLEYAslanMon Jan 25 1988 23:3710
    
    Guess I did leave out an option or two;
    
    	G) Chaos rules; nothing is in control.
	H) sex rules; DNA is in control.
        I) propositions and opinions are in control.  (noters would
    		rule the universe!)  (maybe this is the same as G?)
	J) ....
    
						    Alan.
637.3I dont know.FLOWER::JASNIEWSKITue Jan 26 1988 08:599
    
    	TV, is in control. (just kidding) Control is such a *desired*
    thing; every entity wants it! Nations and governments, religions,
    corporations, communities, Rock bands, and even you...(wonder what
    it all looks like from the out_of_control perspective?) Just who
    has thoroughly attained *it*, I dont know.
    
    	Joe Jas
     
637.4AKOV11::FRETTSyou are a shining star...Tue Jan 26 1988 09:3019
    re: .2 
    
    If you subscribe to the idea that we choose our time and place of
    birth, than we have created for ourselves the types of energies
    at our disposal in this life, whether they be cardinal, fixed, or
    mutable.  I have predominantly fixed energy in my chart.  Based
    on the position of the Moon's North Node in my chart, the type of
    energy that needs developing for me is mutable.  I can choose to
    develop it or not.  I have chosen to.  By making this choice I
    am bringing into my life those opportunities to develop this
    mutable energy.
    
    I don't feel that labeling choice and creative energies with the
    modes of astrological operation is appropriate.  You can have a
    totally mutable chart (which is highly unlikely :-)) and you would
    still be choosing and creating that reality.
    
    Carole
    
637.5ReplyCLUE::PAINTERIt's all relative....maybe.Tue Jan 26 1988 12:4339
    
    "It's a wise man who rules the stars, and a fool who's ruled by
    them."  - Kozmic Muffin
    
    I believe that we all fit into all of the options, and that the
    percentage of our time operating in any one of them is really more
    appropriate.  For example, when I 'take the bull by the horns',
    more of my 'self' will be in Option A than the option where God
    is in control, and surely there will be environmental factors involved
    also, so that a small percentage will also be there.  
    
    I also believe that CYOR is something to strive for, because it
    makes a person realize that they truly do have an enormous amount
    of personal power at their disposal (changing the belief of "I can't
    do it." to "I *CAN* do it!").
    
    Over in the RELIGION conference, I described 'Hell' as being a very
    real place on earth - a lonely place where victims reside, and a place
    where love is absent, and a place where "I can't do it" is the only
    phrase a person can relate to.  In this instance, other people have
    used their own personal power to help create a 'Hell on Earth' for
    someone because they withhold the most important ingredient - that
    being love.  If this were turned around, we all could create a 'Heaven
    on Earth', and I believe that this is the central point of YCYOR,
    because if we create a loving environment (described by Peck as
    the constant nurturing of one's own and other's spiritual growth),
    then the sky really is the limit.  But if a person doesn't see the
    connection between YCYOR and active role they have in creating a 
    loving environment, then the whole concept makes no sense to them.
    
    We all have choices - to use our arms and hands to beat upon someone,
    or to take them into our arms and give them a hug.  If it is understood
    that every single person has to make such choices every minute of
    every day of their lives, regardless of the situation, then this is all
    that is meant by YCYOR (beginning YCYOR, anyway). (;^)  
      
    Thoughts for a Tuesday aft.
                                                            
    Cindy
637.6GLORY::WETHERINGTONQuick, B4 she accelerates!Tue Jan 26 1988 13:165
    I'll vote for A, with the qualification that there are universal
    laws set up and administered by God and the positive heirarachies
    within which our free-will operates.  
    
    DW
637.7who is that masked man?SDOGUS::DEUTMANI'd Rather be INSANE DIEGOTue Jan 26 1988 16:2515
    I vote for *all* of the above, since at one time or another, any
    subset of them could be true... Just when you think you've got a
    hold on reality, along comes another billiard ball (figuratively
    speaking) and knocks you off in a different direction... Then you
    get to figure out how to solve that particular problem (get in
    *control*). And so life goes... I guess we really won't figure out
    who-what is in control until we come face-to-face with it!
    
    You know though that control implies a controller and a controllee
    which sort of disappear in the oneness of existence which underlies
    the relative universe in which we all live and play...
    
    Larry  @.@
            -
    
637.8two moreSVCRUS::CRANEtrust me, I know what I'm doingTue Jan 26 1988 18:4812
                 You forgot two.......	
    
    
    
      J. Your wife is in control
    
    
      K. the IRS is in control
    
    
                                                       John C.
    
637.10My thoughts on de subjektCSC32::KACHELMYERDavid Lee KakTue Jan 26 1988 22:5835
    While it seems that any number of things may seem to exert an influence
    of one sort or another in one's life, I (hypothesize) that I have
    at least the potential to have the most control over myself.  By
    'me', I mean all of my varous conscious and unconscious, physical and
    non-physical components.  
    
    As a result of making various choices about life, such as where
    I live, what I do to earn a living, and what I do with my time,
    I end up having to decide to give some control to various other
    groups or people.  For example, society, the city, the state, the
    Feds, the boss, and so on...  However, as a result of my choices,
    I am the one dishing out the control (even if only by default).

    Regarding YCYOR, it seems to me that the idea here is creating 'my
    own' reality.  I sense what I'm able of the universe I'm in, perform
    my own interpretations of what I sense, and come to my own conclusions
    based on what I think I've sensed, after I'm done hacking the data
    to death.  :-)  Note that 'creating my own reality' doesn't necessarily
    have ANYTHING to do with the universe at large (although I 'spose
    the more successful realities won't be entirely at odds with the
    was the universe runs).

    Regarding some of the other things mentioned on the list (E & F),
    it seems that:
    
        o   Aliens (outer space, not Mexico) - most probably don't care
    	    enough to mess with Terran humans.  The ego-centricity of
    	    some humans probably just makes 'em think they are.  :-)
    
        o   Spirits - except for the naughty ones, I believe that they're
    	    out and about to assist, rather than control individual
	    beings.
    
    
     - Kak
637.11type - EXT TT - and seeISTG::GARDNERWed Jan 27 1988 11:14971

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     (B)B
Written by Rudy T. Borkowski
637.12replySCOPE::PAINTERIt's all relative....maybe.Wed Jan 27 1988 12:067
    RE.8
    
    > J. Your wife is in control
    
    .....um, er, ah.....cough, cough.......xcuse me?
    
    Cindy
637.13BUSY::MAXMIS11Serendipity 'R' usWed Jan 27 1988 12:487
    
    RE: .11
    
    I am impressed.  Thank you.  It was a delight.
    
    Marion
    
637.14WEll done, .11!VINO::EVANSWed Jan 27 1988 12:508
    RE: .11
    
    WONDERFUL!!! I *LOVED* that show!!
    
    Thanks.
    
    --DE
    
637.15Fundamentally speaking ...NRADM3::BERNIERJesus, Name Above All NamesWed Jan 27 1988 16:536
    
    I would choose D)  God is in control.
    
     Not much of a surprise, huh ?
    
    Gil
637.16a question For Gil;SSDEVO::ACKLEYAslanWed Jan 27 1988 17:4119
    
    	RE: .15
    		I also like choice D) a lot.   *But*, I like to think
    that God's control is like an emergency override, and that he
    only exerts his(her?) control when necessary.    Kind of like
    a parent who allows children freedom to learn from mistakes.
    
    A question;   Do you feel that God is in control of every instant?
    Or are there moments or areas where we are allowed to create our
    own realities?   I, personally, don't doubt that the Creator will
    have the final say, but aren't there other influences?   If you
    feel you have turned your controls over to God -- wasn't that turning 
    over of control under your control?
    
    	The reason I ask this, is because I am wondering where the
    boundaries of control really are.  I am tending to think that
    all beings have some control, but that the boundaries change.
    
    	Alan.
637.17shouldnt have got me started!.....SPMFG1::CLAYRThu Jan 28 1988 16:0345
    
         It seems people don't really have a clear concept of YCYOR.
    I believe strongly that each of us does create his/her own reality
    but not in the common, mundane way of thinking of it. One doesn't
    simply say "I think I'll make it rain today", and lo and behold
    it rains. In order to begin to grasp what the YCYOR philosophy is
    saying, one must first contemplate these 2 ideas; 1) we have not
    even begun to touch our full human potential, 2) from a spiritual
    perspectivve we are each sparks of the Divine--the energy-stuff
    that exists primordially, the spirit-stuff that God is; well that's
    what we are each a little piece of.
         Realize also that all of the wild, chaotic things that make
    no sense on this level make sense in higher levels of consciousness.
    They start to fall together. So, in a sense, to say that the YCYOR
    philosophy is meaningless is to assume that as we sit here right
    now we have all of the answers. This brings to mind an older argu-
    ment in which one school of thought claimed that everything is pre-
    determined, i.e. no free will exists. The other school said that
    there is free will. I would guess that all of us would agree that
    free will does exist (if not, then why are we here?). If, therefore
    there is free will then the next logical question is "exactly how
    much free will do we have?". Following this idea to its natural
    conclusion leads to YCYOR.
         What I would like to do, however, is to go one step further
    and say CCIOR (consciousness creates its own reality). Consciousness
    is the primordial root of all that is. It's God and all of the diverse
    beings and everything else in the universe. Consciousness exists
    in one huge network far too complex for us to grasp in "ordinary
    reality". So in a sense, I suppose that I could say I am just the
    "Roy-aspect" of all of consciousness, but being a part of the one
    consciousness network, I am fundamentally connected with God and
    everything else that exists. It's a fact that physicists have 
    acknowledged that 2 electrons separated by any distance still behave
    as though each knows instantaneously what the other is doing. To
    me this represents the unity underlying everything. In this sense,
    my creating my own reality in no way conflicts with "anyone else
    creating their own reality" because we are all acting within one
    comprehensive network under God.
         The task, as we evolve spiritually is to become more and more
    conscious of our own creative capacity and our true nature.
    
    
    Roy
    
    
637.18...always *just* a part. WRO8A::GUEST_TMPHOME, in spite of my ego!Fri Jan 29 1988 00:249
    RE: .17
     
        I think that you stated what you did well and, for the most
    part, I concur.
     
     
     
    Frederick
    
637.19When an electron hits my eye...SHIRE::PETRAITISMeditate!Sat Jan 30 1988 10:4929
    I vote for ycyor too, but concur with a point made in .17 that the
    definiton of who "I" am needs some expansion.
    
    Roy - you made one mistake about the two electrons - I don't think
    physicists have proved faster than light messages. The two particle
    system was a thought experiment designed to show that the measuring
    apparatus which is used to determine the state of the particle under
    investigation, also determines the state of the particle which is
    not in the apparatus. Involving us in paradox.
    
    Problem for us humans is why do we feel so powerless and alone if
    we are fundamentally connected to it all?
    
    Consciousness only helps us up to a point, consciousness itself
    is only a part too.
    
    Why do I think that "I" am in control? I think closer to the truth
    is that control itself is an artifact of the way we look at things.
    That there are things separate from "I", that our language mirrors
    the "real" world, that "God" exists somewhere else (but not here??).
    When we posit "I" as separate from "other" control arises as a need
    to surmount the estrangement caused by ourselves. 
    
    Our whole system of beliefs about everyday reality cause us not
    to see the worlds opening in this conference. 
    
    Shut my mouth and open my mind.
    
    David