Conference hydra::dejavu

    
    
    
    
    Quite impressive experiences, Helaine.  
    
    Have you tried to think along one of the following axes ? ...
    
    1.	There is no Time.  Whatever was, or will be, just IS !
    
    2.	Pre-conditioning.  You live whatever your deepest levels of
    subconsciousness dictate, and they themselves are governed by a
    very simple set of universal rules.
    
    3.	Others ?
    	... would like to deepen the subject ...
    
    Regards,
    
    Pedro
    
    

    Re .1:
    
    >1.	There is no Time.  Whatever was, or will be, just IS !
     
    One approach, sometimes taken by various Eastern mystical schools
    of thought.  Deterministic.
    
    >2.	Pre-conditioning.  You live whatever your deepest levels of
    >subconsciousness dictate, and they themselves are governed by a
    >very simple set of universal rules.
                               
    Another possibilility is that subconscious clues/suggestions made
    someone a) see the HUNTS label, and b) made people seek out mates
    with the proper names.  Improbable, but not impossible.
    
    >3.	Others ?
    
    Precognitive ESP, for one.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
|   Another possibilility is that subconscious clues/suggestions made
|   someone a) see the HUNTS label, and b) made people seek out mates
|   with the proper names.  Improbable, but not impossible.

    But how could one "see" the hunts label ?
    I would think it difficult to physically see a small label at a
    distance. Did you mean "see" in a different way 
    
    What/Who are the entities that supply information to the board users?
    
    I have had some experiencess using the board (since i'munsure of
    the spelling, I'll say board) that cannot be explained by anytihing
    I've evercome across - for example:
    
   The first time I ever 'seriously' used wit was with two friends. Both
    of these woen and myself were soulmates. When we used the board,
    we asked for the name of the entity controling the board movements,
    we were given the name Jerome.
    While using the board, I had my eyes closed, and i remember seeing
    a cave. At one point I was in the cave. Jerome mentioned the name
    of another entity whose name I can't recall.
    
    A few days later Iwas telling my mother about this, and she became
    very excited. She told me a story that she had never told me before
    regarding her fathers famil. Briefly, the story entailed her fathers
    brothers working a silver mine in Canada. Thier seemed to be some
    buisness involving the three brothers wherin one of the brothers,
    named Jerome somehow met in an acciden, and the other two walked
    away with rights to the mine. All of the brothers names had been
    given toume while we were using the board. My mother was astonished
    when she realized I knew their names. My grandfather refused to
    discuss it when I mentioned it to hi, but my mother is still very
    interested. There is more to this story, but this is already getting
    too long. Suffice it to say, there is something about those boards
    that cannot be explained through conventioal means.
    
    peter
        

RE: previous
    
    "Precognitive ESP" (or simply precognition) is a label for whatever
    is happening here (to the extent that it cannot be explained by
    "conventional" mechanisms), rather than an alternative explanation.
    
    It is surprising what *can* be seen or inferred which the subconscious
    can make use of.  Parapsychologists consider an ESP test conclusive
    only if noone who has had even a glimpse of the target is present
    in the room with the percipient, or has been in contact with them
    since seeing the target.
    
    There is a question with the Ouija board (the name, though generally
    pronounced "we gee" comes from the French and German words for yes
    and so is spelled this way) whether the board is controlled by
    external "spirits" or by the users subconscious.  There is vast
    amounts of evidence that the personalities who show themselves on
    the Ouija board are created (collectively in this case) by the users
    subconscious.  The subconscious needs to somehow get any accurate
    information it passes on, and among the mechanisms seems to be that
    which we label ESP.  This does not exclude the intervention of spirits,
    however, since the spirits might be the source of the ESP.  This
    still requires the spirits to have clairvoyance (to non-physically
    "see" whats going on near the board and elsewhere), precognition
    (to determine future events to be communicated) and telepathy
    (in order to talk to the users' subconscious).
    
    					Topher

    	Earlier this morning I added 8.36, giving my views/
    	interpretations of the Ouija board.  Although there
    	are now only five entries to this second Ouija notes
    	file, it seems to be much more upbeat than the original
    	one, which is how it should be.
    
    	I'm interested in knowing whether anybody out there has also
    	had success in channeling St. Germaine.  He is a "teaching"
    	entity, and is who my meditation group mostly communicates with.
    	

    Wow!  What a thought!  Am I understanding correctly?
    Should those who work with Ouija boards 'share' the
    name(s) of those who 'come thru' and see if there
    are common personalities (spirits) contacting each 
    of us who communicate thru DEJAVU?  Is there a common
    bond or link between all of us?  Has "something" drawn
    us together in this file?  
    
    Sort of like finding out that your great aunt's next
    door neighbor was a dear dear friend of your best
    friends mom....
    
    

    It's my feeling that we should share all that we know -- not
    to embrace other people's beliefs, but to perhaps open our
    minds even further.
    
    I do believe that there is a REASON for all of us to be part
    of DEJAVU.  One of the teachings that makes sense to me is
    that because each of us is in charge of our own lives and
    occurrences in each life, then there is no such thing as
    coincidence.  This would also mean there is no such thing
    as luck.
    
    I will happily share with "whom" my group channels to.  We
    make no attempts whatsoever to ever contact a known deceased
    person, because that's not where any of us are at.  We want
    to learn and love, and therefore the entities (masters) who
    speak to us give us just that.
    
    CB
    

    
    
    Way back in December 1986 a couple of my friends were using a board,
    just asking all kinds of questions.  They asked how many children
    I was going to have, what sex they would be, and when the first
    would be born.  The board told them I would have two children, first
    a boy then a girl, and the first one would be arriving January of
    1988.  Well quess what?  Though my husband and I were not thinking
    of, or planning on having children at this time, our first is due
    January 9, 1988.  I'm anxious to see if it's going to be a boy.
    
    This is something I certainly have no control over.  Should be a
    pretty good test.
    
    Jennifer

    
     JUST in the last couple of weeks i have been thinking about the
    idea of having a note to be a base for Ouija board experiments.I
    have made a lot of entries about Ouija boards in this conference
    and have had some of you ask me questions about my experiences.Most
    people do not take it seriously and only think it is a game to be
    played and ask it questions,which can for the most part,not be answered
    accurately.I have been using the board steady for the past year
    and made many discoveries,which are scattered throughout this
    conference. I have had some of you ask me things off line and so
    far there seems to be a lot of fear surrounding it,especially when
    i tell you what i have learned.
     I am not going to go through what i have already said elseware,except
    to say that the board operates by energy fields and telepathy.The
    spirit contact uses telepathy and the energy field to move the pointer
    which is where the energy focases.That is why the board operates
    better with two people,because of the combining of the energy from
    two makes the field stronger.
     Has anyone here ever taken the time to ask who they were speaking
    to on the board and find out about that spirit and when they were
    last on earth and about there life here?Ever ask where they are
    now and what it is like there?
     I've heard a lot of comments about theories and brief encounters,
    but not much real experiments or investigation.
    
    
    PEACE
    MICHAEL
    

    I've touched briefly on the answers to a couple of your questions,
    Michael, so will elaborate a little more.
    
    First of all, my meditation group uses the Ouija board each week
    and all of us take it very seriously.  I think the reason that
    some people fear it is because you cannot take its power lightly,
    you should not use it as a game.  Because of the non-serious
    attitude of some people (good examples are the negative experiences
    had by many people when they were teenagers) they don't have the
    powerful, peaceful, and GOOD messages given by the Masters.
    
    When we use the Board, the entity who speaks to us always
    identifies himself.  For instance, St. Germaine always makes
    a large G on the Board, Helos makes rapid little circles before
    giving us his message.  St. Germaine is the spiritual guide to
    our group, so it is he who usually speaks to us.
    
    Futuristic questions should not be asked.  We always begin our
    meetings by meditating for approximately an hour, and ask that
    all less than Christ's perfection be barred from us.  Afterwards
    we use the Board, and once we make contact we ask if they have a
    message for us.  After we get the message, then individuals will
    ask questions about certain events in their life.  Our spiritual
    leaders will NOT tell us anything about the future and they are
    very quick to point out that they will not tell us WHAT TO DO.
    
    I hope this helps...
    
    CB
    

    CB,
    
     Are you willing to reveal what "messages" you receive?How about
    a couple of examples?Do you have someone take down what is said?
    Did you ask for verification of the spirits claim about who he is?
    Do you ask about where he is and what it is like?
    
     I have so many questions!;^) But,i am very curious about your work
    and findings.I would be interested in comparing notes.
    
     I hope you would be willing to give more info.
    
     Thanks.
    
     PEACE
     MICHAEL
    
    

    Michael,
    
    I don't think that St. Germaine has ever been incarnate; like I
    said before he is the "records keeper."  My meeting is tonight,
    so I will find out for sure.  But the peaceful energy that comes
    from communicating with him is wonderful!  I'm still very much
    in a learning process myself!
    
    As for where he is -- he and all the entities are HERE and
    everywhere.  It's been described to me that it's like a
    radio frequency -- you don't get anything unless the dial
    is in the right place.  And there are thousands of channels,
    some more loving than others.  It's a matter of your mind
    tuning into the station/channel/frequency that you seek.
    I've been taught that we are constantly surrounded by our
    spiritual guides even though we can't visually see them.
    They are with us to help, to teach, and to learn themselves,
    because not all of them have lived in the human form.
    
    St. Germaine says that the joy, peace, and happiness that we
    experience when we pass on is indescribable, and like nothing
    we have ever known on Earth.  We ARE energy in the most peaceful
    and loving sense of the word.
    
    I am more than willing to share with you -- I have a notebook
    full of messages we get each week from the Board, and would
    be delighted to share them with you.  The entities love to
    communicate with us -- it is really a shame that so many people
    are so afraid...  The power within us is great and should not be
    feared.
    
    Carla
    
    "Fear and regret are twin thieves that rob us of today..."
    
    
    

    When I was a teenager, my girlfriend and I played with the "board".
    We had been instructed to identify the spirit who communicated with
    us. We found it to be two indian girls who were put to death because
    they were lovers. One of them was very friendly and talkative, while
    the other was not. She seemed to me to be jealous and hateful,
    especially of men. She would not talk when I was sharing the board,
    but would when my girlfriend's sister did. They told us that they
    were put to death around 1600ad. 
    Ocasionally we would test their insight and abilities and to our
    constant amazement they were often correct. The best test was when
    I lost a ring given to me by my girlfriend. She was of course upset,
    so we gave it a try. They said we would find it in my backyard under
    a tree. Well there are many trees in the yard, so we got everybody
    to stand in a different spot in the yard. Then we asked who was
    closest to the ring. Then we got everyone to stand around the person
    closest and asked again who was closest. After the next answer,
    we all started looking real hard around that persons feet, and lo
    and behold, up turned a metal washer, silver just like the ring.
    Skepticism took over, as well as darkness, so we gave up the search.
    About a week later though, the ring popped up in the backyard under
    a big tree. 
    Sometimes the messages would be confused, or morbid, or increadibly
    filthy. These reasons caused us to begin fearing the use of the
    "board". To this day I have never used one.
    My new SO has one in her closet. She says that she is scared to
    use it too, but she won't throw it away. 
    I would like to start using it again under controlled conditions.
    I definitely believe in its abilities, or our abilities, but they
    can be scary when they get out of control.
    
    I really like this conference
    
    	Rich Grenier
                                            

    re:  .12
    
    Carla,
    
    I don't understand.  If St. Germaine (my middle name, by the way)
    was not ever a human, how is he/she/(?) a saint?
    
    Marion

    CARLA,
    
    I  would really like to know the kind of messages that are being
    given.Would you please share that with me?
    
    Do you contact other spirits on the board and do they give any
    history of their life on earth?
    
    What about senses,such as smell,touch,what do they say about this?
    
    I am still looking to compare notes and do some experimenting with
    anyone who is interested.
    
    Thanks.
    
    PEACE
    MICHAEL
    

    I find the notes on Ouija especially interesting, and I hvae no
    doubt that they do what people *say* they do. BUT:
    
    Well, look.
    
    I mean, there's gotta be a Ouija Board Factory somewhere, right?
    Cutting, or stamping, out Ouija Boards from some perfectly ordinary
    material, right?
    Ditto for the planchette.
    Perfectly ordinary instruction sheet, perfectly ordinary paper,
    right?
    
    I've read in WIccan-related literature how to make a "power staff".
    It involves picking a *particular* kind of wood, in a *particular*
    spot in a forest, at a *particular* time of year, with *particular*
    accompanying rituals.
    
    Yet here we have you basic Ouija Board Assembly Line, making and
    packaging Ouija Boards for Toys-backwards-R-Us, in presumably a
    very oridnary manner.
    
    So *HOW COME* these things work the way they do? As opposed to a
    piece of plywood from the garage, or whatever?
    
    Huh?
    
    Dawn
    

    
    I didn't find out if St. Germaine has ever lived, but I plan
    on doing some research this weekend and will let you know first
    thing Monday morning.
    
    There are what's known as "The Masters" who are on the highest
    plane -- it is they whom I contact and turn to for guidance.
    Since I'm not familiar with many, many specifics, I do not know
    if it's possible to become a St. without ever incarnating -- but
    please note that I don't think this has anything to do with
    Catholicism and that kind of stuff.
    
    And Michael, I'm bringing the message that we got last night and
    I'll enter it here after lunch.
    
    Carla
    

RE: .16
        
    I believe that the OUIJA board is the patented product of Parker
    Brothers.
    
    You are comparing too different traditions.  The Wiccan tradition
    emphasizes (among many other things) the power that things get by
    means of ritual, place, and time.
    
    The OUIJA board comes from the Spiritualist tradition.  In that
    tradition, although an object may get additional power -- good or
    bad -- through a history of use, a tool's basic "power" comes from
    its suitability in form for use by the medium (whether or not they
    are formally trained) who is the part of the bridge between worlds
    which is the point.  In other words, in the Spiritualist tradition
    (and in other related traditions which have adopted the OUIJA) the
    power comes from the "other" side, is mediated by the medium, and
    is manifested, through ordinary or otherwise means, in an appropriate
    physical instrument (note that many Spritualists accept that the
    OUIJA board is being moved by unconscious movements of the workers,
    but believe that the movements are directed from the other side).
    
    The original (non-comercial) form of the OUIJA board used an ordinary
    smooth table, with letters drawn on it for the occasion, and an
    inverted wine glass as the planchette.  The OUIJA planchette was
    originally a holder for a pen used with automatic writing.
    
    					Topher

    Re .16:
    
    That depends a lot on the way you view symbolism/ritual/mechanisms.
    Those that believe, for instance, that Ouija operations are
    subconsciously driven (that is, "internal"), are able to believe
    that there is no necessary ritual to manufacture, since the
    participants are doing their thing (BTW: you can also get a planchette
    with built-in pencil for a form of writing [automatic or channeled,
    depending on your perspective] without a board needed).
    
    >So *HOW COME* these things work the way they do? As opposed to a
    >piece of plywood from the garage, or whatever?
                                                  
    Who says a home-made Ouija-type board won't work?  The operative
    idea of a board is that it allows you to concentrate.  Likewise,
    most "crystal" balls are really not crystal, but glass (a ball composed
    of real crystal -- usually quartz -- is nearly an order of magnitude
    more costly than glass).  Lately, acrylic "crystal" balls have been
    coming into the marketplace because of their relative low cost.
     
    However, on ritualistic stuff:
    
    >It involves picking a *particular* kind of wood, in a *particular*
    >spot in a forest, at a *particular* time of year, with *particular*
    >accompanying rituals.
    
    Yes, because they're attempting one or another form of magic (the
    real stuff).  The particular tree is associated with a god, goddess,
    or other such entity, the location might be a power spot or energy
    concentration, the time of year would have paraastrological
    significance, and the ritual would be used to activate the stuff.
    The difference here is that the person(s) doing this do so to make
    use of the most powerful resources available.
    
    Now, suppose you want to make a really powerful Ouija-type board.
    You might use willow-wood for the board, ink using resin from the
    dragon's blood herb for the lettering on the board, and a planchette
    composed of tin with a quartz window.  If its assembly were done
    close to, and on the eastern side of a natural body of water about three
    hours after sunset in the spring on a Saturday night with the moon
    phase between half and full.  Any external aspects would probably
    be amplified by such a board; however, if anybodty wants to try
    that kind of a board, it should be done under strict control,
    preferably in the presence of an experienced occultist.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Re: .16
    
>>        Now, suppose you want to make a really powerful Ouija-type board.
    You might use willow-wood for the board, ink using resin from the
    dragon's blood herb for the lettering on the board, and a planchette
    composed of tin with a quartz window.  If its assembly were done
    close to, and on the eastern side of a natural body of water about three
    hours after sunset in the spring on a Saturday night with the moon
    phase between half and full.  Any external aspects would probably
    be amplified by such a board; however, if anybodty wants to try
    that kind of a board, it should be done under strict control,
>>    preferably in the presence of an experienced occultist.

    I'm curious, how did get such a combination? what is so important
    about the combination?  And who else is interested in making a board
    like this (I have some maple, is that good enough? :-) ).
    
    

RE: .17
    
    Note 407.* and following are about an historical and several legendary
    people known as Comte de Saint-Germain.  I would doubt whether you
    are being contacted by the actual spirit of this interesting rougue.
    Rather, I would say that your spirit contact has chosen this name
    to tell you something -- probably relating to one of the legends
    of the real person.
    
    					Topher

    Re .20
    
    >I'm curious, how did get such a combination? what is so important
    >about the combination?  
    
    The original question concerned why one could apparently get results
    out of a mass-manufactured item of no symbolic significance in the
    case of a Parker Brothers board while one had to go through all
    kinds of trouble to make a certain Wiccan item.  I took it to its
    conclusion by discussing how one could use materials having their mystic
    traditions to amplify results.  The combination I chose was primarily
    to enhance manifestory powers, and on the basis of what was affordable.
    I could have, for example, chosen Agrippa's "speculum" material
    for the board, but the alloy of gold, silver, iron [in filing form],
    mercury, lead, tin, and copper would take at the minimum a year
    (and possibly as long as eight!) to mix _properly_; I could have
    suggested an inlay of onyx for the letters, a gold-mercury amalgum
    alloy for the planchette, and an open hole surrounded by opals for
    the top of the planchette.  That would have equivalent (even a little
    stronger) manifestory powers, but not only would be harder to make,
    but _far_ more expensive.
    
    However, again, anyone wanting to use a natural-amplifier board
    like that should take care, and have an experienced occultist around
    to make sure things stay under control.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
                                                               

    
     WELL,i am still interested in the messages being sent.
    
    I guess no one is going to take me up on my challenge to do some
    experimenting and comparing notes.
    
    Has there ever been a serious scientific investigation of Ouija
    boards,and if so,where can we get the imformation?
    
    I am so impatient.Its a part of my personality ;^)
    
    PEACE
    MICHAEL
    

    Sorry Michael, it's been busy in my neck of the woods and when I
    come in to work so early in the morning |-\ I seem to have a hard
    time remembering to bring in my "Wednesday Night" notebook.
    
    I will enter the message we got last week later this afternoon or
    first thing tomorrow morning (promise!).
    
    As far as experimenting goes, what do you mean by that?  One of
    the more interesting aspects of your entries is that you know the
    Ouija board isn't a game...  I, too, have a very strong belief in
    that.  Am I the only one out here who uses the Board on a regular
    basis?  I can't believe it!!
    
    Carla
    

    We're almost ready Michael... just a little more time.

    
    Hi all,
    
    Thank-you i am anxiously anticipating your entry Carla.
    
    I am a regular user of the board,and,have made many contacts with
    many different souls in the last year.
    
    Carla,how do you work the board?Is it handled by two persons or
    one?Do you have certain ones that use it?How about if you have two
    males or two females or one of each?
    
    Do you have a person writing the letters down seperate from the
    users?
    
    By experimenting i mean setting up conditions and seeing the results
    and comparing notes.
    
    PEACE
    MICHAEL

    Thanks, Steve, Topher. 
    
    Once again, I learn something from this conference!
    
    Dawn
    

    Our group usually consists of 3-7 people.  Two of the people (one
    male, one female) have an incredible energy together so when they're
    both present it is the two of them who are on the Board.  The male
    portion of that duo is always there, and if the woman is not then
    it's usually myself who pairs up with him, since the two of us
    also share a good energy.  If I'm not on the Board, I write down
    the messages; if I am on the Board, someone else does.  We pretty
    much go with the flow on who's there, and who's in what kind of
    mood.
    
    I've never tried the Board all by myself, but do know of a woman 
    in Denver who has the most powerful energy and that planchette 
    just wisks around spelling out messages like a little powerboat!
    
    Michael, if you give me some more specifics on what type of
    experiments you'd like to conduct then I'd be able to tell you
    if my group would be interested.
    
    Carla
    
    

    What if I let my two kids, aged 7 and 5 use the board? Neither
    can spell anything so if spirits really direct the thing, sensible
    words should come out?
    
    Any ideas?
    

    
    Thanks Carla.
    
    It would be interesting to see what happens when the man is replaced
    with someone else.If he is always present i would suggest as an
    experiment for him to let someone else take his place and see the
    results.
    
    Cal,Your suggestion on the children would be interesting,but,it
    should be strickly controlled,and the children should not be allowed
    to use the board by themselves.Because of their age,there may not
    be enough energy available.It should be a boy and a girl for the
    best results.
    
    My wife and I use the board regular,and i have used it by myself,but
    there wasnt enough energy to make it work well when i was alone.
    
    I have had my wife call out the letters while i had my head turned
    away from the board and vise versa and it still functioned fine.
    We talked with a spirit that was a German soldier and he would,at
    times,speak to us in German.We would ask him to translate it for
    us,which he did.Later we would check in a bookstore for a
    German/english dictionary and confirm that the translation was
    correct,which it was.
    
    Another experiment would be to blindfold both people on the board
    and have a third party write down the message without speaking.
    
    How about the messages?I'm still Impatiently waiting ;^)
    
    PEACE
    MICHAEL
    
    

    
    	From my Ouija experiences years ago:
    
    "Spirit" = Debbie
    
    Comments - Said I was married to her in a previous life!
    
    	       Told me that my wife would kill me using Drano at
    	       the age of 35! (gonna stay single for awhile)
    
    Mark 	

    RE: .31
    
    *DRANO*?????
    
    REALLY??!?!?!?!?
    
    Sure her name wasn't Josephine? :-)
    
    Dawn
    

RE: .29

    To mean anything at all the experiment would have to be conducted
    so that no adult was present in the room.  Ideally, the experiment
    would be monitored with a video camera from a location which was
    out of earshot of the kids.

    The reason is something called the "Clever Hans Effect."  Without
    going into too many details, Clever Hans was a horse who seemed to
    be able speak intelligently by means of an elaborate hoof-tap code.
    Clever Hans' owner did not even have to be present.  It turned out
    that Clever Hans was "reading" slight muscle reactions on the part
    of people standing with him, which indicated what they subconsciously
    expected him to tap out next.  In other words he was acting exactly
    like a OUIJA board according to conventional explanations of its
    operation.

    Anything that a horse can do, I would expect that a child of 7 or
    even 5 could do subconsciously.

    Even then the experiment would be only "suggestive" not conclusive.

    First off, there is the possibility of direct ESP, without any
    real spirits involved, could cause the results.

    Secondly, you cannot really assume that your children do not "know
    how to read."  All you know is that they are not consciously able
    to read.  The subconscious is amazingly "intelligent" and can
    remember and learn from many things which the conscious mind does
    not remember at all.  Your children have certainly been exposed
    to reading, and so may have subconsciously learned it.  I know this
    sounds fantastic, but equally fantastic examples of subconscious
    learning have been demonstrated on many occasions.  Even keeping to
    conventional science we are, each of us, much, much more than we credit
    ourselves.

    As MICHAEL points out, a failure of the experiment would not be
    conclusive either -- it would simply indicate that the children
    involved do not have enough of what it takes (whatever that is) to get
    results.  So a positive result would be inconclusive (though suggestive
    and interesting) and a negative result wouldn't mean much at all.

RE: .30

    Boy/Girl combo -- worth a try but not everybody agrees that such a
    combination is any better than other combinations.  Even if this *is*
    true for adults it does not follow that it applies to children before
    sexual maturity (or at least the *start* of sexual maturity).  Is the
    power of male/female combinations because of the ubiquitous sexual
    interaction (in which case, for example, homosexuals should be paired
    with homosexuals of the same sex for greatest efficacy) or because of
    a more archetypal combination of opposites.

    Not looking at the board -- afraid nothing much can be concluded from
    this.  First of all, contrary to simplified descriptions of the
    conventional explanation for the operation of the OUIJA board, the
    resulting personality arises from the interaction of the participants,
    including, to some extent, bystanders via the Clever Hans mechanism.
    So each of the participants may independently carry on with the other
    looking away.  A positive result (the OUIJA failing to operate
    coherently when one or the other participant looked away) would have
    meant something, but a negative result in the one person looks away
    test doesn't mean anything.

    Secondly, if the OUIJA continuing to operate while one or both
    participants aren't looking meant something we would have to conclude
    that everyone who touch types is, unbeknownst to them, channeling a
    spirit.

    Here is a "blind" OUIJA test which *would* be pretty rigorous (though
    it still would not distinguish spirits from subconscious ESP): Choose
    a cipher randomly and secretly, perhaps using a computer.  No one
    in the room must know which cipher was chosen.  The code could be
    displayed where none of the incarnate participants could observe it
    (e.g., on the screen of a CRT which is facing a non-shiny wall), or
    you could depend on the spirits clairvoyance or precognition to
    discover it.  The OUIJA board would be expected to spell out a message
    "in code" which could then be decoded to reveal the "real" message.
    Ideally, a spirit could be talked into producing a specific message
    (once its decoded), but any comprehensible message of moderate length
    produced this way would be *VERY* impressive.  You would have to be
    very careful about how you would go about choosing the random code.  A
    simple substitution cipher would be adequate, and would not be very
    taxing to the spirit, but with such a simple form of cipher, any
    information to the participants about the decoded message would require
    that a new cipher be selected.  If you actually wish to go through
    with this test, I'd be glad to advise you on the nit-picky details.

					Topher

    The theory of a boy/girl combination can be questioned when you
    consider the fact that our true selves (our soul, if you will) are
    neither male nor female, and since it is our "true" selves that
    the higher entities are connecting with it shouldn't really matter
    too much if it is a boy/girl combination on the Board.  I've had
    equally powerful energy experiences with other women -- I really
    think that it depends on the individuals.  In my experience.  8-)
    
    And my dear Michael, you've been very patient.  Here's the message
    we received last week from St. Germaine:
    
    	"Be sure that all of you here tonight are helping many more
    	than you know.  Even when others are not ready for your teaching,
    	they register on a subconscious level also.  You teach by action
    	as well.  This is why it is so important to control your thoughts
    	at all times."
    
    There were some personal questions and messages to members of the
    group.  Then I asked for a message for a friend of mine who is having
    some troubles in her own -- the message could well be applied to all
    of us...:
    
    	"Tell her that she always has the love and support of many and
    	she is never alone.  We are with her always and we share her
    	joys and sorrows.  All she need do is ask and we are there.
    
    	When we have outgrown a learning situation we must change.
    	If we do not do so by choice then the universe will do so for
    	us.  All change is needed, for that simply means that we have
    	graduated to another class."
    
    
    Carla
    

    I forgot to add something -- if anyone is interested (and please
    tell me if you are), I will enter the messages we receive each week.
    Would anyone like me to do that?
    
    Carla
    

    RE: .34
    
    Must have taken a long time to spell all that out letter-by-letter.
    
    
    
    
    John M.

    re: 35
    
    Yes please, I for one would love to hear more messages.
    
    ...dale

.35 Carla;

I'd be interested. Yes, please do.

Jay

    
    
    Me too, Carla.
    
    Carole
    

    Me too Carla

    Me, too, Carla!

    
    Thank-you Carla,my impatience is calmed for now ;^)
    
    I also would like to have the messages written in here each week.
    Would it be possible to give you some questions to ask?
    If you are interested i have hundreds of pages of material that
    has come across the board in the past year.I would enter some of
    it here(more interesting stuff),if you want.
    
    I do disagree with what you say about the soul.I believe that the
    soul is male or female,but not neither or both.This is only my belief
    and not backed up by any real definite proof.You did state that
    it was a fact,therefore it must be supported by evidence.What evidence
    do you have to back up your statement?
    
    There was some other questions i had asked you earlier that you
    havn't answered as yet.Would you check my earlier responses to see
    which ones you could answer for me?I am really quite interested
    in your work and want to compare notes.
    
    As far as experiments go,I am not a scientist and therefor probably
    would not do as they would do,but in place of getting too complex
    about it,i think some simple tests could be done to get a better
    idea of what might be taking place.
    
    So i will put this question out to whoever wants to respond to it:
    
    How would you explain being talked to in German,a language niether
    my wife or i have ability to speak,then having it translated to
    us,then later we verify the translation as correct?
    
    Enough for now.
    
    PEACE
    MICHAEL
    

    First I would like to say that if I said something was a
    "fact," I only meant it as being my belief.  I'm in no way 
    trying to convince you to embrace my beliefs, so I apologize
    for stating it that way.
    
    Michael, I went back and re-read your entries in 476, and I
    will answer the questions I haven't yet.  But please know
    that I am still very much in a "seeking" mode myself, and
    sometimes haven't explored certain things as much as I 
    eventually will.  8-)  So...
    
    re:  .11  << Did you ask for verification of the spirits claim
    		 about who he is? >>
    
    No I did not, mainly because I don't feel the need to.  Maybe
    I'm too unquestioning sometimes -- there are parts of me
    that DO doubt -- but there is ONE part of me that knows, and I
    suppose that's where my truths and comforts lie.  I don't feel
    that I would be a positive energy myself if I were to start
    firing questions at St. Germaine or any of the entities who
    come to our group -- we are there to learn, love, relax, and
    just BE.  This is why we quietly receive an initial lengthy 
    message each week.  We all have and ask questions, but mainly
    we try to give more than we take, and that includes giving to
    the entities what THEY seek -- trust and love.  So, in summary,
    we don't ask for verification, and even if we did I don't quite
    understand how they could "prove" anything.  The purpose to
    this lifetime of mine is learning to trust and accept (this
    is something I know), and that does not only include other
    human beings.
        
    re:  .15  << Do you contact other spirits on the board and do
    		 they give any history of their life on earth? >>
    
    We do contact several other entities, but as I've said before
    they are on the highest plane.  I do not know very much about
    them.  Helos is a very high/positive entity who is the spiritual
    guide to one of the women at my group.  BK (I'll give you his
    full name tomorrow) is a no nonsense entity who does not beat
    around the bush -- very intense, but still loving.  One night
    I got an anonymous entity who just filled me with the most
    INCREDIBLE energy -- and he moved the planchette around with
    such force that I thought it might break.  He would not identify
    himself, and Germaine would not reveal to us who he was either.
    That was a little strange, but it was still a positive thing.
    Germaine did say that he was a lord of the universe (I don't know
    what that means).
    
    In summary of that (boy, I'm really long-winded today!), I've 
    never contacted someone who said "I used to be so-and-so."
    
    re:  .42  << Would it be possible to give you some questions to
    		 ask? >>
    
    Yes, of course.  But they must be positive, or I won't ask them.
    
    re:  .I forgot the number:
    
    You asked about receiving a message in German and then verifying
    the translation.  My thoughts on this are simple.  The contacting
    of entities (spirits) does not only occur in the U.S. and England.
    It is worldwide and it is inconceivable for me to believe that
    Germaine contacts a German or Swedish group in English.  The
    entities can contact you in whatever language it is you speak --
    remember WHERE and WHAT they are!  They know no boundaries, as
    we do in the human form.
    
    And finally, I wanted to add a comment about the gender of our
    soul.  The theory that I believe in has to do with soulmates, and
    that is this:  at one time our soul was WHOLE.  Then, in order to
    experience life as a human being, it was necessary for our soul to 
    split so that at the same or different times we could both incarnate
    and experience life simultaneously as different sexes.  I'm afraid
    I'm not explaining this very well, but I've never known anybody
    whose soulmate was of the same sex.  And for the record, my 
    soulmate IS a man!
    
    But it's all in what and how you believe, so PLEASE COMMENT on
    what I wrote and maybe someone out there can offer some theories
    a little clearer than mine.  If not, I hope I've given everybody a
    big enough earful!
    

RE: .42

    I would not presume to explain it, I do not have enough information.
    I *can* present some possible alternative explanations, along with
    my personal evaluation of how likely each is, a priori.  I would
    absolutely reject none of them (this is, by the way, not meant to be
    a complete list of possible explanations).

    1) Spiritist -- you have been in contact with a spirit who knows German
    (personal evaluation of probability: very, very low).

    2) Parapsychological -- one or the other of you found the right words
    by means of ESP (personal evaluation of probability: low).

    3) Cryptonesiac -- one or the other of you have subconsciously picked
    up enough German to create this effect.  (personal evaluation of
    probability: very high).

    I know the third possibility sounds fantastic -- and it is.  Never
    the less, we all are geniuses enough -- subconsciously -- to
    accomplish it.  I have a report (in a recent issue of, I think, the
    Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research, but perhaps
    it was the Journal of Parapsychology) which describes a similar case.

    A man underwent (spontaneously, after hypnotic induction) past-lives
    regression.  He "became" a WWI French fighter-pilot.  Although he
    normally spoke no French, and knew no-one who did, he spoke French with
    seeming ease.  He revealed an apparent knowledge of many obscure
    facts, many of which, when checked out turned out to be true.

    However, the investigator demonstrated quite conclusively that all the
    facts which were correct were hidden memories.  Facts which he had no
    opportunity to have seen he simply was wrong about.

    The speaking of French?  When a native French-speaking linguist
    listened to the tapes, she pointed out that although seemingly quite
    fluent, the vocabulary was actually quite small.  All the words were
    ones likely to be found in comic books and war movies (both of which
    the "channel" was into).  There was a heavy emphasis on English
    cognates (i.e., French words which are similar to the equivalent
    English words) which are easier for an English speaker to remember.
    The grammar was poor -- frequently it was English grammar with French
    words substituted.  The "channel" was completely unaware of any of
    this.

    [I may have details of the above incorrect, but the whole is pretty
    much as I've summarized it.]

    Many people are unaware of how few words are really needed to
    communicate fluently.  The entire Bible, for example, has been
    translated into a subset of English, called Basic English, which
    contains only 1000 words.  The same artificial dialect has been
    used to translate and to write many other documents.  I have, for
    example, a book entitled "The Basic English Dictionary of Science".

    If you are free to say only what you know how to say, a much smaller
    vocabulary still would be adequate.

				Topher

    Thank-you Carla for your response to my questions.I am a lot less
    accepting than you.I always question,and in that way i learn a lot
    more about things.I have been using the Ouija for a year now and
    i am still asking many questions and learning a lot in the process.
    I dont always agree with things that i am told by the spirits.My
    contacts tell me they are in Hell and i also talk with other spirits
    who say they are from the higher level and come to the lower level
    to help.
    
    Would you please ask the spirits if they know of a man called Robert
    Green and what they can tell you about him.
    
    Also ask about Jesus and his work there.
    
    Heres a good one:I was told the last time i talked on the board
    that Charles Manson is the same spirit as Jack the Ripper.Also that
    Adolph Hitler escaped from Germany and lived in Argentina until
    his death.I was also given the name of the man who was Jack the
    Ripper.Of course i dont have any way to confirm any of this and
    it really doesnt mean much,but i thought it was interesting.
    
    Topher,I read that story about the French pilot.You sent it to me
    a while back.It was interesting,but inconclusive.What would be your
    explanation of how the plancette moves?I hope you dont say vibrations
    in your fingers,otherwise how could you explain the plancette being
    pulled right out of your hand,and also how could vibrations do 360
    degree turns?
    
    Carla,what do the masters say about reincarnation?
    
    I believe in soul mates,my wife is mine.I believe when the spirit
    is split that you are male/female and you remain that way.
    
    Carla,what do you think about my suggestion to have two different
    people use the board?there seems to be a common person.Did the
    gentleman who is always on the board start your group?
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Try to contact my father. He died about 15 years ago, and, a skeptic
    to the end, he claimed he would get in contact if it were at all
    possible.
    
    I've been waiting.
    
    -bs

MY BROTHER HAS USED A QUIJA BOARD FOR THE PAST SEVEN YEARS OFF AND ON.
    HIS FIRST EXPERINCE WAS WHAT HOOKED HIM. THE MESSAGE WAS SUPPOSEDLY
    FROM A HIGHER PLANE THAN MOST. THE POINTER WAS MOVING SO FAST THAT
    THEY ONLY HAD TIME TO RIGHT LETTERS DOWN. THEY THEN TRIED TO BREAK
    IT INTO WORDS AFTERWARD. MUCH OF THE MESSAGE SPOKE OF A LOVING GOD
    AND THAT OUR PURPOSE WAS TO WORK TOWARD BELIEVING THAT. MANY OF
    THE WORDS AND PHRASES WERE UNKNOWN TO MY BROTHER, BUT HE BROUGHT
    HIS NOTES TO A ENGLISH PROFESSOR AT CLARK UNIVERSITY WHO HELPED
    WITH DEFINITIONS ETC.
    
    FROM THAT MOMENT ON HE WAS HOOKED, HE BOUGHT HIS OWN BOARD AND WITH
    HIS WIFE BEGAN TO RECORD HIS SESSIONS, THEN TRANSCRIBE THEM TO PAPER.
    ALL OF US WERE QUITE SKEPTICAL BUT WE DECIDED THAT WHEATHER IT WERE
    REALLY SPIRITS THEY WERE CONTACTING OR A SIDE OF OUR SUBCONSCIOUS
    IT WAS WORTH THE EFFORT. FOR THE FIRST FEW YEARS THERE WERE MANY,
    WHAT WE CALLED POLTERGIST, WHICH WERE PEOPLE WHO WOULD LIE OR SWEAR
    ON THE BOARD. ONE DAY MY MOTHER AND BROTHER WERE DOING THE BOARD
    WHILE MY SKEPTICAL FATHER WAS WATCHING. "SUPOSSEDLY" MY IT WAS
    WAS MY FATHER'S UNCLE ON THE BOARD. WE ASKED MY FATHER TO ASK HIM
    SOMETHING THAT ONLY HE COULD KNOW. WHEN THE SPIRIT PRODUCED THE
    RIGHT ANSWER (WHAT TOWN WAS HIS BROTHER KILLED IN THE WAR) MY DAD
    TURNED WHITE AS A GHOST.
    
    THERE WERE MANY OTHER VERY INTERESTING SESSIONS IN THOSE FIRST FEW
    YEARS BUT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO "CHARLES" APPEARED ON THE BOARD.
    CHARLES WAS FROM ENGLAND AND SPOKE IN A ENGLISH ACCENT. HE CALLED
    US BLOKES & CHAPS. HE TALKED ABOUT THE WENCHES HE HAD MET IN THE
    PUBS OF LONDON. MY BROTHER HAD JUST MOVED TO GRAFTON WHEN CHARLES
    FIRST APPEARED. ONE DAY HE SAID THERE WAS SOMEONE WITH HIM THAT
    USED TO BE FROM GRAFTON. HE DID'NT COME ON THE BOARD BUT HE GAVE
    THE MAN'S NAME, DATE OF BIRTH, AND WIFES NAME. MY BROTHER WENT
    DOWN TO THE CEMENTARY (WHICH HE & HIS WIFE HAD NEVER BEEN TO)
    AND FOUND THIS MAN'S GRAVESTONE WHICH WAS EXACTLY RIGHT.
    
    OVER A PERIOD OF SEVERAL MONTH'S CHARLES ADMITTED THAT IT WAS
    NOT BY ACCIDENT THAT HE HAD COME TO THERE BOARD. HE BEGAN TO
    TELL THEM THAT THEY HAD BEEN RELATED TO HIM IN A PRIOR LIFE.
    HE GAVE THEM THEIR NAMES AND A TOWN IN NEW HAMPSHIRE WHERE
    THEY HAD LIVED. HE ALSO GAVE THEM THEIR OLD DATES OF BIRTH ETC.
    MY BROTHER AND SOME FRIENDS TRAVELED TO THE TOWN (WHICH THEY
    HAD NEVER EVEN HEARD OF) AND LO & BEHOLD FOUND BIRTH RECORDS
    OF EVERYTHING CHARLES HAD TOLD THEM. CHARLES TOLD THEM THAT
    THE REASON HE HAD DONE THAT WAS TO GAIN THEIR TRUST. HE TOLD
    MY BROTHER THAT HE WAS HIS SPIRITUAL QUIDE AND THAT IS WHY
    HE HAD COME TO THEIR BOARD.
    
    SINCE THEN THEY HAVE TALKED ABOUT MANY SUBJECTS INCLUDING
    SOMETHING CALLED "LAY LINES" AND THE VARIOUS PLANES OF THE
    SPIRIT WORLD ETC. IT IS ALL VERY POSITIVE AND USUALLY VERY
    SPIRITUAL. LIKE I SAID WE HAVE ALWAYS KEPT AN OPEN MIND AS
    TO WEATHER THIS IS REAL OR SUBCONSCIOUS BUT EITHER WAY IT
    HAS BEEN EXTREMELY FASCINATING.
    
                                           MICHAEL
    ACCENT. HE WAS FROM 19TH CENTURY LONDON.

    
    
    Re: .46
    
    Bruce,
    
    What means have you used to allow your father to communicate?
    What have you tried?  I'm sincerely interested.
    
    Carole
    

RE: .47
    
    Thanks, that is an interesting story (but please, DONT SHOUT).
    
    				Topher
    

    
    
    re: .45 Curious.  What was the name given to you as to who Jack
    the Ripper was?

    re: .45
    
    	In response to the question: "What do the masters say about
    	reincarnation?", I think you'll find that it's what you've
    	been hearing all along -- we continue to incarnate as humans
    	in order to learn the lessons we have not yet learned.  That,
    	of course, is an extremely simplified version, but sometimes
    	the basics that are the easiest to accept.
    
    	I haven't asked the questions posed by Michael in .45 yet,
    	but I will.  I really must consider the other members of my
    	group -- the "mood" has to be right and I always defer my
    	questions if someone else has some urgent ones.  So please
    	know that I'm not putting you off (and I know you're im-
    	patient!), but please try to understand.
    
    	I've never heard of being contacted by someone from Hell.
    	What is the atmosphere in the room like when they are
    	communicating on the Board?  Do you personally believe in
    	Hell?  If it disturbs you to communicate with them (it would
    	me), envision yourself surrounded by the White Light and say:
    	"I transmute all that is less than Christ's perfection."
        
    	Carla
    
    
    	P.S.  Are you in a prayerful state before using the Board?

    Having my BS in Accounting I find it very difficult to believe that
    there is not a logical explanation to what is happening when one
    uses the Ouija board (however I certainly can't think of one). 
    As I am somewhat skeptical (very ignorant of the subject) would
    it be possible to observe some people on the Ouija board?  This
    topic and people's experiences has aroused my curiousity.  Any takers?   

    re : request for ouija reincarnation info
    
    My only expeience with "the board" is indirectly and from quite
    a few years ago before my eyes were opened to the possibility that
    not all experiences have textbook explanations.(i.e. I was a skeptic:-)
    
    A sister of a friend of mine was in contact with a "spirit" and
    we considered it "entertaining" to hear the latest info from the
    world beyond. (She on the other hand was quite serious about this.)
    
    One statement that for some reason has always stuck in my mind dealt
    with reincarnation. According to the entity we are born in the "sun
    sign" as our last time of death. So that our date of death determines
    our astrological entry point for our next life. 
    
    Any confirmation on this from other "entities"? Of course accepting
    that statement assumes you consider ouija, entities, reincarnation,
    and astrology plausible, which blows it out of the water for most
    people right away anyway.  ;-)
                     
    Thom

     Hello all,
    
    Its been a weird week.Seems like there has been an extra amount
    of problems to deal with all around.
    
    I was given the name of Jack the Ripper and i will look through
    my notes and print it here,hopefully tomorrow.
    
    I have used the white light ever since i started to use the board.It
    has been noticed several times by the spirits i talk to.My religous
    beliefs have always been more or less agnostic,but in the last 5
    years have become more a combination of Christian and mystic.
    
    I have been told that reincarnation is possible on the higher levels
    (that is,higher than what we would refer to as hell),but,it is a
    choice of the individual and according to their progression.I was
    told that you stay in the same family and that members of your family
    in the spirit world keep track of you until you return,at which
    time,someone will meet you as you make the transition.I was also
    told that I have lived 10 lifetimes and my main spirit contact claims
    to be my father in a previous life,which occured in the late 1700s.
    He tells me a lot of stories about his life and times.He also talks
    alot about what i was like and the things i would do,etc.I have
    also talked with my first wife(died in 1986) and had many conversations
    with her before she moved to a higher level.I am in contact with
    a spirit who claims to have been Moses,The Prophet Joseph Smith(Mormon
    prophet)and a catholic bishop by the name of Robert Green,who resided
    in Baltimore.
    
    If not true,at least interesting :^)
    
    PEACE
    Michael

    RE: .54
    
    Mike, ask Joseph Smith if he was right.
    
    
    John M.

    I had some trouble entering my note yesterday.I got cut off by the
    system.I will try again.
    
    I have limited time to talk with Robert Green,who says he was Moses
    and Joseph Smith,he is always in a rush to do other things.I did
    ask him about his vision and he told me that Jesus Christ did appear
    to him but,that the Father did not.He said he made a mistake about
    the Father,and that only Jesus Christ appeared.I havnt been able
    to question him much,its hard to get in touch with him.I have to
    set up times with him,and then i only get a few minutes to talk.
    
    My contact Jim told me that Jack the Rippers name was Walter Benjamin
    Turner and that he committed suicide and had his body cremated by
    a friend.
    
    Jim also said that he knew of the person that calls himself ST
    Germaine. He said that he is a dangerous person and is trying to
    get people in his confidence to control them.Be very careful Carla,
    of this.Do you discuss religion with St. Germaine and if so,what
    is his attitude?
    
    PEACE
    MICHAEL

         Don't know whether this should go in 499 or here, but I 
         decided to put it here...
         
         The other night, for the first time, I was able to use the 
         Ouija Board by myself!  I was feeling INCREDIBLE energy 
         within myself so decided to give it a go.  It took a while 
         for the entities to assimilate my energy field, but once they 
         "got used to me" the messages just flowed and flowed.  Much 
         of what I got was personal and about my soulmate, and that in 
         itself is another topic for discussion.  Anyway, I got the 
         following message -- it is in relation to soulmates -- and I 
         am really having a hard time interpreting it.  So here it is:
         
         "Our botanicals are biomagnetic bonds which bond and 
         sometimes make blood contact an ionic attachment in a 
         non-mobile atmosphere."
         
         The word *blood* was defined as *life*, and was referenced to 
         more than once.
         
         Carla
         

RE: .57
    
    I'm pretty sure that its nonesense on a literal level, so you'll
    have to deal with it on a symbolic level.  Symbols are very individual
    things.
    
    					Topher

    Carla--
      
       Have you every asked any of these spirits if they could channel
    through one of the members of your group?  Also, why or why not?
      
       This weekend I picked up some tapes of St. Germaine from my
    girlfriend's hairdresser.  I started to listen this morning but
    I dozed off.  I get the same feelings I get listening to this that
    I get from Ramtha or from my very brief observation of Mafu.  It's
    interesting how very similar the language and the accents are and
    also the "tone."  I will make an effort to listen to the entirity
    of the two tapes I borrowed; until then I am not terribly qualified
    to talk about this St. Germaine.
      
    Frederick
    

    Problem with St. Germaine:
    
    Elizabeth Clair Prophet claims to be the reincarnation of St Germaine
    (who was not a saint, BTW).  How then can he be a discarnate entity?
    
    
    John M.

    Maybe Elizabeth Clair Prophet is wrong.  Maybe the essence of what
    the being "St Germaine" is cannot be contained in a single entity.
    Maybe the personality entitled "St Germaine" exists in a series
    of component souls that together form the known sentient intelligence.
    Maybe discarnate entities are not "people", as we know them, but
    rather pure thought/emotion.  Maybe on the level of conciousness
    that St Germaine is at, he is not limited by the physical laws of
    our universe.  There must be a myriad of possibile answers for that
    question... lets think about them for awhile.

    
    	I think Elizabeth Claire Prophet is "channeling" St. Germain.
    In her books I have run across no reference to her being his
    reincarnation.   Since she says St. Germain is an "Ascended Master",
    the implication is that he has advanced beyond the need to
    incarnate.   She has written many channeled books, only a few of
    which are "by" St. Germain.
    	I suppose there is no final way to "prove" that a given
    channeled entity is the same as an entity coming through another
    channel, even if the same name is used.   Even if he were to
    materialize in my room, I might still entertain sceptical doubts.
    	The only indisputable fact here is that St. Germain has become
    a part of the New Age mythology.
    
	Alan.

    re:  (John)
    
    There is no reason that an entity that is currently incarnated cannot
    also exist on a spiritual level, and speak to other people as the
    previous incarnation.
    
    Elizabeth
    

    Reply to .60; Mitchell,
    
    One explaination is that a deceased person leaves a shell on the
    etheric or astral plain, much like peeling an onion, after an
    individual departs physical life. Some think this shell can be
    communicated with by sensitive individuals.
    
    In the model of reincarnation I'm contemplating, one could drop shells
    and still reincarnate over a period of time. 

    RE:.63
    
    Sorry, Elizabeth, I don't buy it.  If that's the case then I claim
    that I also exist "out there" and hereby challenge any DEJAVUer who so
    dares to channel me. 
    
    I promise unparalleled wisdom!
    
    
    RE: .64 (Mikie)
    
    What is this shell of which you speak?  Bodies?
    
    
    John M.

    Reply to .65; Mitchell;
    
    Theoreticlly, as far as I can make out, these shells are like core
    memory that retains a charge after power is turned off. Actually
    that is a bad methapor because no charge is retained if the core
    is taken away completely.
                            
    I think I have experienced at least two shells in OOBE's. The first
    shell retains some resemblence of human life or memory of life. The
    other was more like a free electon, zooming about with no care or
    concern. (Does this give new meaning to "free electron shell"?? B^)
    
    Yeah right, unparalleled wisdom. I certainly hope you've been stocking
    up on Doonesbury for this extravaganza. B^) BTW, could you, by chance,
    give us a peek of what's in store for Doonesbury tomarrow?

    RE .65
    You DO already exist out there John .... and I accept your challenge
    to channel you.  I will conduct my first channelling session tonight.
    Stay tuned for the results.

    
    
    I can't wait for this!
    
    C.
    

.67 (Re: .65)

*I* ws gonna say that. John, I agree with mary, you do exsist 'out
there'. Or rather your higher self exists out there. But, I believe only 
you can channel you, (or your higher self) [no, not the kind of higher].
I would like to see Mary channel you though, could be interesting ;')

Jay

RE: .65

Oh Mikie, come out of your shell!  :-)


    > BTW, could you, by chance, give us a peek of what's in store for
    Doonesbury tomarrow? < 


No.  I can't stand Doonesbury.


RE: .67 (Pare)

    >   You DO already exist out there John .... and I accept your
    challenge to channel you.  I will conduct my first channelling session
    tonight. Stay tuned for the results. < 

Hmmmm....  Now that I've seen this, maybe YOU'RE the reason I had such a
lousy sleep!  I had nightmares all night that I was living in a haunted
house and I was "possessed."   

Next you'll be sending a crystal salesman to my door.  ;-)


RE: .69 (Jay)

    > I would like to see Mary channel you though, could be interesting ;')
    < 


You'll know she has been successful if she:

1. Begins to babble coherently

2. Goes on food binges and develops a love for '78 red Zinfandels from
   the San Luis Obispo region

3. Becomes obsessed with her weight

4. Starts "interpreting" for dogs

5. Starts annoying SOAPBOX readers with incessant animal rights tirades

6. Starts "correcting" Topher and Frederick

7. Can't get enough of cheap horror flicks


Maybe Mary will reconsider now.  Don't say I didn't warn her!  ;-)

John M.
     

RE: Last bunch
    
    Why do you assume, John, that you would recognize your "higher self"
    if channeled through another?
    
    						Topher
    

    RE: .72
    
    The same way I recognize my right foot, obviously.
    
    Really, Topher, if I can't recognize myself then who can?  If such
    is the case then anyone could say ANYTHING and claim it came from
    my higher self.
    
    John M.

    re: last two
      
         (Poor Mary, keep on rolling...)
      
         What I think Topher means is that what you described is *you*
    (the "limited self" *you* that Lazaris talks about.)  Your Higher
    Self is responsible for ALL of your incarnations, so it could very
    well pass on to Mary your life as Omar the tentmaker or Snafu,
    the killer tomato, etc.
         So, if you wish to have Mary channel *you* then you need to
    depart from your body for a little while.
         For all of you who know Mary, if you find her doing strange
    things in the Men's room, we'll have this to use as "proof" of why
    that could have happened.
      
    Frederick
    

    Whoa, Frederick!  Are you saying I do strange things in the Men's
    room?!  ;-)
    
    OK, Mary can get in touch with me and tell me when to leave my body.
    Then she is free to channel me.  I promise not to give away any
    of her secrets, (bust size etc.) after I take over her body.  Deal?
                                                          
    Maybe it would be a better idea for YOU to channel me, Frederick.
    Then again, Lazaris would NEVER forgive you!  :-)
    
    John M.
           

.71  John

>2. ........................develops a love for '78 red Zinfandels from
>   the San Luis Obispo region

Red or blush? Any specific label(s)?   
In case Mary DOES channel you, we need specifics! (Also, I'm always in
search of good California wine.)

Jay

RE: .73
    
    You recognize your right foot, not because it shines out with
    "you-ness" but because you have seen it before.  I've been watching
    my daughter learning to recognize her own body and that it is
    connected to her.  Very much of a learning process.
    
    Presumably, you've never seen your higher self directly.
    
    As for me, I sometimes have trouble recognizing things I wrote only
    a couple of years earlier (though I may remember writing it).
    Presumably, what I wrote reflects, in content and style, part of
    my personality.  I would expect my "higher self" if it exists, to be
    less recognizable than something I can actually remember writing.
    
    In scientific terms, I don't see how this experiment can be conclusive
    (though, like some other experiments John which has proposed recently,
    it may have *interesting* inconclusive results).
    
    					Topher

    
    I just bought a Ouija board last night.  I was wondering if anyone
    can give me some tips.  I never used the board and I am a little
    scared of it.  How do you call a spirit?  Can you call a particle
    one?  If anyone can give me some pointers, I would appreciate it.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Kathi
    

    
>    "Our botanicals are biomagnetic bonds which bond and sometimes make
>    blood contact an ionic attachment in a non-mobile atmosphere." 
 
    For some reason when I saw the word botanicals I immediately thought of
    flowers. The reference to atmosphere continues to suggest flowers to me
    due to their scent. Not knowing the context of your question other than
    that it "is in relation to soulmates" it is hard to guess much more.
    Are you searching for your soulmate? Could be the board is recommending
    the use of a particular perfume or something. 
    
    
    				Lance

    	re: .59
    
    	I don't think anybody in my group has ever specifically asked
    	any of our spiritual guides if any of us could channel any of
    	them.  I know it hasn't been asked for as long as I've been
   	going.  Interesting question, and I will ask that tonight at 
    	my meeting.
    
    	re: .78
    
    	Kathi, please be sure that before each use of the Ouija board
    	you are in a prayerful state.  You'll have to find your own
    	way to accomplish this, but I always meditate for at least a
    	half hour.  Envision yourself being surrounded by the White
    	Light (or pink) and try asking for your spiritual guide.  You
    	will feel the energy, and you will know immediately if you
    	*connect*.  Please don't let fear enter into your mind, because
    	that may open you up to other less loving entities that are
    	out there.  As in all circumstances of life, you get what you
    	seek -- if you are truly seeking love and peace you will never
    	have any problems on the Board.
    
    	re: .79
    
    	Thanks for your input!  I'm not spiritually searching for my
    	soulmate - I know who he is on both the spiritual and physical
    	level.  But physically I suppose I am searching for him, because 
    	we have not yet physically met face to face in this lifetime.  
    	I am searching for the right way *to* meet him.
     
    	Any other ideas??
    
    	Carla
    

RE: .76 (Jay)


When I say RED Zinfandel I mean RED, not blush.  White Zin is a waste of
a good grape (do you not agree?).

If Mary wants to channel me, she should wait till I'm over this virus. 
Maybe if I had a crystal... :-).



John M.

.81 John, You *did* say red, sorry I didn't notice. White has it's place.
Not as flavorful as red, 'specially if you chill it. It's not a waste if
you take the skins and use them to make an extra deep red (or do they do
that only with pinot noir?).

What was the topic of the note??

Jay

    .81
    I have to wait before I channel you John.  Your higher self has
    the flu...(or he may be hung over from all of that red wine)_:-)

I don't know if anyone is reading this note anymore, but I have only
recently discovered ouija and this note, so i will add my entry anyway.
I have been ouija-ing fairly regularly for the past week or two, with
some interesting results.  I do it by myself.  I have seemingly spoken
with a number of entities.  Most of the things I have been told are
about the entity or about me.  Almost all of the messages i have
gotten are either unverifiable (My name is Randy. I was killed by a
tiger in Sumatra in 1780.) or have yet to occur.  The few things i have
been able to check are untrue.  Some things i will know by the end of
the year.  I have also gotten contradictory information.  Once, when this
happened, I asked the entity if he was sure.  He said, "no."  I said, "are
you sure of anything?"  He said, "yes. Nothing is sure."  Many times i get
garbled letters interspersed with decipherable words.  I have not been able
to get a correct answer to a question to which someone else already knows
the answer, and i do not.

					-Marla

    I would be very leery of any entity that was giving me obviously
    bogus information - you've said some of what it has told you is
    false.  Please ask whomever you worship to protect you, and surround
    yourself with a blue or white light when working with the Ouija
    board.  Or better yet - leave it alone.  You may be calling up entities
    that mean you harm.  Please be careful.
    
    Elizabeth

    This note has been dormant for a while, but I thought I'd get some
    feedback on an experience.
    
    My fiance and I had talked about her experiences with the Ouija
    and related matter.  She worked the board regularly many years ago
    until she discovered that the entity she had been conversing with
    was malevolent.  At that point she was instructed to burn "her"
    board and the entity, who went by the name Cave (pronounced "ka vey"
    would be cut off from further influencing her.)
    
    Last night I went out and got a board, and we sat down with it. After
    taking precautions suggested in this note, we almost immediately we
    connected with a presence.  This entity wished to be call "Lemen"
    (pronounced "lee men").  Upon further questioning, Lemen said that she
    has never taken human form (which suggests that her essence was
    feminine rather than female as we know gender), and that she was the
    entity of our new condominium.  She also said that she knew Cave, but
    that she wasn't afraid of him  and that there were a couple of other
    entities present. She also said that I was in my 6th life and that
    my fiance was in her 5th life.
    
    I have a couple of questions:  Has anyone ever met Lemen?  Has anyone
    ever met Cave?  Has anyone ever heard of an entity taking the form
    of a condominium, not the entire building but just our unit (this
    reminds me of the fairy tales about Tomptas, the resident spirts
    of Swedish homes - I am 50% Swedish by genetics though I suspect
    somewhat moreso by spirit.)  I also want to make sure that Lemen
    is benevolent or at least benign.  Are there questions which one
    can ask which "force" entities to reveal their true colors?"
    
    All comments are appreciated.  

    RE: -.1
    
         If personal opinions matter, then mine is that the 
    spirit in question is pulling your leg.  Often they start out
    strong and interesting, then somewhere along the way once
    their interest wanes, they change their tune.  Either this one
    is very confused or it's joshing with you, I think.
    
    Frederick
    

I think Frederick's comment is very valid and maybe under emphasized.

Another miscellaneous comment, speaking in general terms and not 
addressing any previous reply:

It never ceases to amaze me that there is such a strong tendency in 
people to associate such power and intelligence with the disincarnate. 
So much time is spent with Ouija boards, etc., trying to make contact 
with those on the "other side", when the wisdom on *this side* has not 
been spent and is so much more readily available and far more 
verifiable. 

Oh well, the grass is always greener... I guess.  But it still amazes 
me.

Jeff

    I don't think that a joke is involved, at least in the usual sense
    of the word.  This type of "connection" is very common in channeling
    as well as in subconscious material (this similarity is easily
    explained if you believe, as I do, that they are the same thing).
    Cav� --> cave --> a-spirit-of-a-dwelling is quite unremarkable.
    
    The concept of a minor deity or spirit associated with a dwelling
    is a common one throughout the world.  I rather suspect that
    in modern cultures which continue to take the concept seriously
    you would find an equal number of such household deities in
    apartments and condos as in the private homes of people matched
    in education and socio-economic class.  Such spirits are typically
    more associated with the "home" than with the "house": while the
    structure is part of the association the people who live there are
    also an important component.
    
    The word "leman", by the way, is an obsolete term meaning "sweetheart"
    (gender non-specific).  A much older meaning of the term (archaic
    rather than simply obsolete, to use the lexographers distinction)
    is a specifically illicit lover.  Offhand I don't know but I rather
    suspect that the plural of "leman" is "lemen", if this is so and
    if this is the source of the personalities name, then we have another
    plural personality (very common in channeling).
    
    					Topher

    I just looked up the word "leman" and sure enough, it is an archaic
    word meaning 1. Lover. 2 Mistress.  It is from Old English/Germanic
    which accounts for "Lemen's" affirmative response to our question
    as to if she was "german".  In the appendix of the dictionary, the
    lexography (is that the corect word) traces to the latin forms of
    libere, meaning to be dear, and libido, meaning pleasure and desire. 

    
    If boards are somehow connected to spirits, and your board only
    receives this one spirit, does that mean that you have in a weird
    sort of way........"bought a Lemon?"  
    
    Remember...Just because they dont have a body doesn't mean
    they are smart.
    
    "finding true colors"
    	I dont know but some interesting questions would be...
    Q. Why is she connected to the condo?
    Q. where was she before here?
    
    Craig-no-rest-for-the-wicked-Brown.

     
     I have never heard of those entities.
    
     You might ask it where it is,and,what is its purpose?
    
     Are you interested in an experiment?If so,ask the entity if
    it knows of "James Michaels" or "Robert Green".
    
     Also ask it about "The red Room".
    
    I am interested in the response you get.Are you interested?
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Okay, I'll ask the question.  We got on the board the next night,
    and learned a bit more about "Lemen," in particular, that she is
    a he and that he was pulling our leg.  Consequently, I am not prone
    to beleive much of what has been said.  We'd ask a question and
    Lemen would not answer directly, (s)he would make us guess at the
    answer.  Also, Cavey (prounounced ka vey) showed up and we had to
    shoo him away so to speak.                               
                                         

    
    Great!also note any response other than written,that is,is the
    plancette move to the bottom of the board,or,if a real quick response
    is given.
    
      There may be many entities involved here.I have spoken with at
    least a dozen different ones.Each one has its own personality,and,
    manner of manipulating the plancette.You can also tell emotional
    state by the way they respond.
    
      I'll be waiting to hear what happens.Thanks.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Michael,
    
    Okay, we got on the board last night and here is what transpired. I
    captured about 75% of the session on tape.  Some of it makes sense and
    some does not. I will enclose editorial comments in brackets "[]."
                                                                    
    We meditated for a short period on the white light and a white room,
    then we asked if any(one/thing) was present.  We received something of
    a tentative and halting "yes."  I asked if it was Lemen, and it
    responded, "yes."  I asked if it knew what the "red room" was and it
    responded "yes" in a tentative fashion.  I asked, "what can you tell us
    about the red room?"  It spelled out "B-A-D" very precisely.  I asked,
    "Bad? Is that what you want to say?  The red room is bad?  Is the red
    room bad?"  It moved the plancette very quickly to "yes."  The I asked,
    "Do you want to talk about the red room?"  It responded with a quick
    sweeping "No."  [This seemed like an emphatic "no." This particular
    entity will make low, sweeping moves, almost down to the numberals,
    between no and yes.]  So then I asked, "Do you know a 'Robert Greene?'"
    The entity moved the plancette back to yes, I do not remember the
    quality of the motion, but on listening to the sliding sound on
    the tape, it seems easy, smooth and reasonably quick.
    
    [I'll continue in dialoge format from here on out.  I will denote
    my questions with "ME," my fiance's questions with "SO" and the
    entity's parts with "ENTITY."  This is condensed.]
    
    ME	"Tell us something about Robert Greene.  Is Robert Greene in
    the red room?"
                  
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth move to no.)
                                          
    ME	"Was Robert Greene a person?"     
                                          
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth move to yes.)
                                          
    ME		"Is he dead now?"         
                                          
    ENTITY  	(A looping move away from and then back to yes.)
                                          
    ME	    	"Did he die recently?  [I don't recall the entity's
    response, but I don't hear any significant sliding sounds on the
    tape.  Which I believe means a yes.  Often this entity will not
    move the plancette if the answer to the question is the same as
    the answer to the previous question.  It loops off and returns when
    we are moving quickly through conversation, if you can call it that.]
                                                                             
    ME		"Do you know where I work?"
                                          
                                          
                                          
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth move to no.)
    
    ME		"Do you know any of the people I work with?"
    
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth move to yes.)
                                          
    ME		"Who?"
    
    ENTITY	"B
                  
    ME		"Name the people I work with, who do I work with? Anyone."
                
    ENTITY	(Moved the plancette around, but couldn't seem to put
    any coherence to the movement.)
                 
    ME		"Can you tell us something about Robert Greene?  Tell
    us something about Robert Greene.  Anything."
                 
    ENTITY	"A"
                 
    ME		"Tell us something about Robert Greene.  Who is Robert
    Greene?"     
                 
    ENTITY	"A B E N"
                 
    ME		"Is N the last letter you told us?"
                 
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth move to no.)
                                          
    ME		"What was the last letter?"
                                          
    ENTITY	"A"                       
                                          
    ME		"I'm going to ask you about all of the letters.  Was
    A the first letter."                  
                                          
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth move to yes.)
                 
    ME		"Was B the second letter?"
                 
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth move to yes.)
                 
    ME		"Was E the third letter?"
    
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth move to yes.)
    
    [This was a real struggle.  I had to ask several times about the
    letters.  Finally, the entity got it out.]
    
    ENTITY	"A B E A N"               
                                        
    SO		"BEAN?"                 
                                        
    ME		Is Robert Greene a bean?
    
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth move to yes.)
    
    SO		"Is that his form?"
    
    ENTITY	(Make a quick looping move away from and then back to
    yes.)
    
    [At this point we started to laugh.]
    
    SO		"What kind of a bean?  A lima bean?"
    
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth loop yes.)
                                        
    ME		"Are you joking with us?"
                                        
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth loop yes.)
    
    [We started laughing again.]
    
    ME		"Really, we want to know about Robert Green."
    
    SO		"Robert Green's a bean."
    
    ME		"A green bean, right?"
    
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth loop yes.)
    
    ME		"Very clever.  I have a friend who asked me to ask about
    Robert Green.  Tell me something that I can tell my friend about
    Robert Green. [We didn't get anything intelligible from this.]
    
    SO		"Do you know who Robert Green is?"
    
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth loop yes.)
    
    SO		"Is he dead?"
    
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth loop yes.)
    
    SO		"Does he have another form?"
    
    ENTITY	"B E A N"
    
    ME		"He's a bean."
    
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth loop yes.)
    
    ME		"Are you still joking?"
    
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth loop yes.)
    
    ME		"Do you think this is funny?"
    
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth loop yes.)
    
    SO		"Is this Cavey?"
    
    ENTITY	(Quick smooth loop yes, more emphatic than the others.)
    
    ME		"Would you please get out of here Cavey."
    
    SO/ME	"Lemen?  Is Lemen there."
    
    ENTITY	(Smooth yes.)
    
    ME		"Do you know Robert Green?"
    
    ENTITY	(Away and then back to yes."
    
    ME		"What is Robert Green's form?"
    
    ENTITY	(The plancette moved around and around five or six times."
    
    ME		"A circle?"
    
    ENTITY	"B E A N"
    
    SO		"Who is this Robert Green guy?"
    
    ME		"I have no idea."
    
    SO		"Who asked you to ask about him?"
    
    ME		"This guy right here."  I showed her the note.
    
    SO		"Okay, lets go.  Let's ask it some good ones.  Forget
    this Robert Green.  Lemen, are you there?
    
    ENTITY	(move to yes)
    
    SO		"Lemen, where are you?"
    
    ENTITY	H E R E
    
    SO		"ARe you here?"
    
    ENTITY	(Move to yes.)
    
    SO		"What is your purpose?"
    
    ENTITY	"N I N E"
                        
    
    Phonetically, nine is "no" in german, which supposedly is Leman's
    ethnic background.  The net of this conversation is that the entity
    said that it had no purpose.  We asked if the entity knew James
    Michaels.  It said yes that that James Michaels was alive and ninety
    years old and knew Robert Green.  Then we took a break.
    
    After that we got into some religious/spiritual questions.
    Unfortunately we did not record this part of the session.  This part
    makes me feel uncomfortable.  We asked if there was a God and the
    entity said "yes."  When asked what it called it's god, it spelled the
    word, "YAFON."  I have no idea what that is or if it is even spelled
    correctly.  We asked some more questions and got some contradictory
    answers around who this YAFON is and if YAFON is the God we know as
    Jesus. The entity said that YAFON was not the God as we know him. I
    started to ask questions about who the entity bows to and who it
    serves.  It said that it bowed to Jesus, but that it also bowed
    to and served the the "angel of light."  At that point my SO broke
    off not wanting to get into that realm.  However, I still want to
    check out what I'm dealing with.
    
    That's about it.
    
        
   
                                   
    
    

        Recently a group (the name has at least temporarily slipped
    my mind) released their version of an old Elvis song (actually,
    there are no new Elvis songs so I guess that is redundant) ;-)
    and, so, a local popular radio station has offered something
    new...a version of the group's songs sung by Elvis...if you send
    away for either tapes or compact discs, they will send you a 
    Ouija board along with your order.
    
    Frederick
    

    
    ref .95
    
    It seems like these entities understand about "the red room".Their
    response is as I would expect from them if they had knowledge of
    it.
    
    Also it is obvious that they know the entities "Robert Green" and
    "James Michaels",but,are very careful not to say anything about
    them,and,managed to avoid it by playing games with you.
    
    Usually when the plancette moves in circles or doesnt move in a
    smooth manner,it is an indication of confusion on the part of the
    entity,or agitation.
    
    Its not likely they will say anymore about the entities i mentioned,
    but,you could tell them that you know someone who is friends with
    both of them,to see what the response is.Do not give them my name.
    
    Here are some more questions if you wish to continue the experiment.
    
         Who is in charge there?
    
         Are you cold and in darkness?
    
         Why are you there?
    
         
    They may try to get you to tell them my name,so,be aware.
    
    This may seem strange,but,this is DEJAVU,and,anything can happen
    :^)
    
    Thanks for the report,and,the detail of it.I will be awaiting the
    results of your next session.Its very interesting already.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

The gating factor in continuing the experiment will be my SO's willingness
    to do so.  I do have a couple of questions.
    
    1.	Can you sit at a table with the board on the table rather than
    on ones knees?
    
    2.	Any take on "YAFON" or anything close????

    pardon my ignorance, but....
    
    what is the "red room"? Is it an evil place? Can someone
    provide a little detail here or point me to where it is discussed
    elsewhere? My curiosity was peaked with the entity's reaction
    to "the red room"........      
    
    thanx
    

    Is this the "red room" of The Shining?
    
    				Topher

< Note 476.100 by PBSVAX::COOPER "Topher Cooper" >

>    Is this the "red room" of The Shining?
    
Wasn't that "red rum"?

		Dave

    
    
    Yes,you can put the board on the table,it will work fine.Also,
    you need only use one hand.
    
    The reason the entity reacted as it did,was,because,the "RED ROOM"
    is a place of punishment.
    
    The reason i have not said who Robert Green and James Michaels are,is,
    so not to give any imformation that would spoil the experiment.
    
    Now I can.Robert Green is an assistant to Jesus,and,James Michaels
    is my Ouija Board contact.
    
    I am a bit uncomfortable about saying very much,since,I have developed
    a trust,that i donot want weakened.
    
    It is very hard to know something,that,probably most people would
    think is crazy.I take a risk revealing things like this.
    
    I have plenty of evidence to show that I am in contact with spirits,
    but,it is of a personal nature.I am not out to prove anything,just
    to offer my knowledge to those who wish to receive it.
    
    My experiment with Craig just gives me more of an understanding
    of things in the other world.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    
    
    I communicated with my contact last night.I asked him about Lemen
    and Cavey.He said he did not know them,but,that they might know
    of him.He then said his master was there and he asked him.He said
    his master knew them,but,would say nothing about them.
    
    I asked him about YAFON.He said it was a code word,that,each letter
    was a word.He said one letter was missing.It should be YAFONE.He
    said it meant:You Are Frightned Of Nine Evils.Apparently a reference
    to weaknesses.
    
    He also said his "angel of light" was Satan.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    re .103 (Michael):
    
    >He also said his "angel of light" was Satan.
    
    Two observations:
    
    An alias for Satan is Lucifer, or light-bearer.
    
    Any contact who says his "angel of light" is Lucifer/Satan, I'd
    be a bit wary of.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Something struck me as odd while I was reading these past notes,
    so I've gone back and re-read some of the significant ones.  Up
    front I want to say that I have never used the board myself but
    have a great deal of respect, curiosity and a touch of fear concerning
    it.
    
    In .95 ANDERSON's contact Lemen said it's purpose here was NINE.
     It also said it bowed to Jesus but served the angel of light.
    
    Mike later mentioned YAFONE and it's Nine Evils.  Did anyone else
    notice the "NINE" tie, or am I just seeing (well, reading :^} ) things? 

    Still curious --
    	Tracy

    re:  .105
    
    Yeah, me too. I noticed that there was a reference to NINE.
    What does that mean? Is Lemen one of the "nine evils" or 
    connected with evil in some way?
    

    
    
    It is my belief that the Ouija board is used for monitoring and
    to play on the weak,to gain control over them.I therefor,based on
    my experience,consider it a tool of Satan.
    
    The "nine evils"I believe,are weaknesses,that,if they could get
    us to do,it would put us in Satans control.
    
    What better tool than a game in the toy section.But then,Satan is
    a very confident,clever entity.I have been told that he looks more
    animal than human.I have had occasional short conversations with
    him,because of my contacts position.I recall in one conversation
    that he said to me: "You have a price,like all humans".He is very
    confident that he can tempt anyone.He looks for your weakness.
    
    All for now.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    
    RE. .107
    
    Mike,
    
    	Would it be possible to get a list of what the "nine evils"
    are??? I am not sure if they are beings or actions.
    
    Craig

    
    
    Craig,
    
    I will have to ask my contact next time about it.He will be gone
    for a week(he didnt say what for or where).I suspect they would
    be actions that would cause us to be on the lowest plane,which is
    controlled by Satan.Murder would be one evil.Suicide would also
    cause us to be in his domain,although,most people who commit suicide
    dont stay long and are not mixed with those who do worse things,
    like murder.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    When I was a young girl probably ten or eleven I used the board
    and innocently asked if Satan was there.  I got a yes reply and
    I'll tell you it scare me silly. That was the last time I use 
    it.
    
    Denise

    
    Michael,
    
    Would you please elaborate on your mention of suicide and how it
    ties in with Satan?  I'm curious about this connection because...
    
    I happen to believe that all deaths are ultimately suicides, and
    believe that we all choose our time and method of 'death', no matter 
    how unconsciously.  There was a time when I didn't/couldn't believe 
    this, however I've seen too many of my relatives recently who were in 
    the process of deciding to leave this life, speaking of relatives who 
    had passed on, reminiscing of their youth, etc., and then subsequently 
    'dying' of 'natural' causes.  The most recent one was my husband's 
    grandmother.  I knew that the one thing she was living for had taken 
    place in her life (a family reconciliation) and at that point it was 
    only a matter of time.  I even told my husband this and sure enough, 
    she passed away peacefully a week later.  Something very similar
    happened with my grandfather a few years earlier.
                                             
    Cindy

    
    Cindy,
    
     From my experience and investigation,I believe,that if we take
    our own life,knowing exactly what we are doing,we will initially
    place ourselves on the lowest level plane,where Satan has dominion.
    However,I believe that such souls are isolated and are visited by
    souls from the higher level,to explain and prepare them to advance
    higher,once they have served their time there.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    
    
    Michael, any entity could come thru on the board and identify
    itself as Satan.   Just as someone could call you onthe phone
    and say "Hello, this is Satan."  Is that person on the other
    end REALLY the person you identify as "the real Satan"?  For
    that matter, there could be more than one entity (or voice on
    the phone) by the name as Satan.  If you spoke with a person 
    named Adolph, would you assume it was Adolph Hitler of WWII
    fame (infamy?)....
    
    I personally do not believe thathere is a 'real' Satan.
    We create our own evil and we create our own good, and one is
    often the other, depending upon ones' perspective.
    
    Suicide or free will?  We each choose our time of entering an
    earthly body and our time of departing.  Suicide can be viewed
    as positive or negative, and your view will make it just that,
    but only for you.  
    
    We each experience what we need to experience.
    
    Deb
    
    

    Re .113 (Deb):
    
    >I personally do not believe thathere is a 'real' Satan.
    
    A matter of belief.  Others, including me, believe there is.
    
    >We create our own evil and we create our own good, and one is
    >often the other, depending upon ones' perspective.
     
    Please read note 12 ("Rushing In") on my thoughts about moral
    relativism.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Satan, by the way is not really a name -- it is a title.  Roughly
    speaking it means "The Opponent".
    
    					Topher

       I agree with Deb...except to add that any entity aligning
    itself with Satan can't be too terribly enlightened, in my
    view.
    
    Frederick
    

    
    Re: .116 
    	Hava-happy-B-Day
    
    I dont think Good or Evil has anything to do with the level of
    comprehension or intelligence one has. Matter of fact, if I knew
    almost everything, I would be more likely to go Evil.
    
    Goddess, delete my need to know!
    
    Craig, ;-)	

    
    Theres always the possibility that He is lying,and,that He is not
    Satan.I went by his attitude(to me,he acts like Satan),of course,
    that would be my own perception,and,by other entities confirmation.
    Of course they all could be lying.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Craig,
    
    Have you had any further contact on the board since your last report?
    
    I once was asked by a friend to see if I could contact her mother,who,
    recently died.I asked my contact and he did find her,and,gave me
    a message from her.There were things said that I had no way of knowing
    about,like pet names for children,concern for health problems I
    knew nothing of,etc.My friend was several hundred miles away when
    i received the message.She later confirmed all that was said was
    correct.Pretty convincing to me.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Mike,
    
    Thanks for sharing with us your experiences with the ouija board.
    I, for one, would love to hear more.
    
    But a question, do you think it's possible to contact _anyone_ who
    has died or are there limitations that exist either by a contact
    or some "force" in their existence?

    
    I can only speak from my own experience and belief.There is so much
    I dont know.My contact is reluctant to try to contact other souls,but,
    sometimes he will do it as a favor to me.
    
    At this point in time I believe there are many planes of existance.My
    Ouija board connects with the lowest plane.My contact can,at times,go
    one level higher,or,send messages to the higher level.I have received
    several messages from my father this way,since he is on a higher
    plane.Its not likely you will get much cooperation from entities
    on the board.I have worked for a long time to develop a trust with
    my contact.We may not be able to contact anyone we want,since some
    of us may decide to reincarnate,and others not.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    How many peoply are required to work with a Ouija board??
    

    
        -<"You mean I was supposed to stand INSIDE the triangle ?!">-
       
    Michael,
    	I have never worked with a "talking board" and I no longer deal
    with these folks directly.
    	Time has passed and memories have warped but if I am remembered
    by anything/anyone...say "Hi" to Wendy, and ask that she never have
    her boss visit me again without warning!!! Oh...and tell DAVID that
    "I dont know how I would have made it without him".
    
    	Was it a slip that you addressed this to me.....I sorta hope
    so.
    	perhaps there is another Craig in this Conf???
    
    (rationalizing) Craig ;-)

RE .122
        
    That rather depends on the people.  Most beginners need two or three
    people to get it to work.  With experience some people find that
    they can do it alone.  A few people can use it alone from the start.
    
    					Topher

    Yes, there is another Craig in the conference, me.  Mike, based
    on the unfavorable character of the responses and the alignment
    of the entity(s) coupled with some VERY strange and undesirable
    events (coincidence) we burned our board to a fine ash which we
    washed away.  We decided that we're not going to dabble with something
    that we don't understand.
    
    The other Craig

    ref .125
    
    
      Hi Craig,
    
     I was wondering what had happened to you.It can be a very scary
    experience working the board.I guess,for you,and your friend,it
    was a good decision to trash the board.I'm glad you destroyed it
    instead of passing it on.It was an interesting experiment.I think
    it got some people thinking and,perhaps,showed some evidence for
    it being more than just a toy or our subconscience.
     Thanks for trying it.Anybody else?(:^).
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

RE: .126 (Michael)
    
    Michael, I must have missed something -- or was something said
    "off line".  I'm not going to bother arguing that what took place
    was due to subconscious manifestations -- you have your opinions
    and I have mine, and I don't see anything in what has been posted
    here which argues strongly for my opinion.
    
    However, I really don't see anything in what was posted that isn't
    perfectly consistent with a subconscious explanation -- even without
    psi which I do think comes into the picture sometimes.  In other
    words, what was posted seemed to me to be a complete wash as far
    as evidence for one viewpoint over another.
    
    The closest to evidence was the identification of the "red room"
    as BAD.  But in the context, this was an obvious guess: red is the
    traditional color of rage, blood and of the flames of Hell.  If
    I were trying to fake things (and let me emphasize very strongly,
    I am in no way suggesting that anyone is, I think that a very remote
    possibility at most) its the response I would have made in that
    context.
    
    I am not attempting to challenge you, or anything.  Really!  I'm
    just trying to understand what you saw which I missed or saw
    differently.
    
    (Let me add that I agree that this was a demonstration that the
    Ouija is *not* a toy.  Whether they come from within or without,
    the Ouija can tamper with some very powerful, essentially
    incomprehensible "forces".)
    
    					Topher

    
    Topher,
    
     I know you have a different approach to these things.I believe
    it to be communicating with spirits,based on my experiences.I have
    only entered a few of the more interesting ones here,but,there are
    months of written text i have saved from my sessions.
     I felt that my experiences have shown a slant against the
    subconscience explanation,and,toward either PSI or SPIRIT.I chose
    the spirit.I wasnt directing my comments specificly to you,but,the
    theory.
     I respect your opinions,even if i dont agree with them.I dont know
    if we will ever know for sure,until our time comes to leave this
    world,or,even then.It is interesting to compare experiences,and,thats
    what I try to do.I am,however,trying to keep an open mind,and therefor
    not totally convinced of my own theory.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

  I had my first experience with a Ouija board last night, and
  I'd like to share it with all of you. The session was
  unfortunately short due to sleepiness, and my partner and I
  received no startling revelations, but it was altogether an
  enjoyable and enlightening time.

  After about three minutes of silent meditation, the planchette
  began to move, at first slowly and then more rapidly, in
  sweeping circular motion around the perimeter of the board.

	Me:	What is your name?
	Board:	Random letters (no vowels) for a few minutes.
	Me:	Do you have a name?
	Board:	No.
	Me:	Do you have something to tell us?
	Board:	No.
	Me:	Is there someone there who would like to talk
		with us?
	Board:	Yes.
	Me:	Go and get them.

  At this, the planchette stopped moving for about 30 seconds.

	Me:	What is your name?
	Board:	Bev Ditz.
	Me:	Where are you?
	Board:	Random letters
	Me:	Do you know where you are?
	Board:	No.
	Me:	Would you like to tell us something?
	Board:	Dew never he else
	Me:	Dew never he else? Is that it?
	Board:	Yes.
	Me:	Else what?
	Board:	Random letters
	Me:	Bev, how old are you?
	Board:	6.
	Me:	Is there someone else there who can speak to us?
	Board:	Yes.
	Me:	Get them now.

  Again, the planchette stopped moving for about thirty seconds.

	Me:	What is your name?
	Board:	GDH
	Me:	GDH? Are those your initials?
	Board:	Yes.
	Me:	What would you like us to call you?
	Board:	He.
	Me:	How old are you?
	Board:	47.
	Me:	Tell me something about Ariel (my friend).
	Board:	Remember get...I'm 66.

  Here, Ariel was about to drop off into sleep.

	Me:	Can we speak with you another time?
	Board:	Yes.
	Me:	Goodnight, He.
	Board:	(Planchette zips to bottom of bboard and falls to
		the floor)

  As I said, nothing earth-shattering, but interesting to me. The
  planchette moved differently with each change of character;
  Bev's communication seemed slow, and the planchette spent a lot
  of time searching for letters. He's method was more sure; the
  planchette moved swiftly from letter to letter, pausing only
  briefly each time.

  Both Ariel and I remarked at how the planchette felt...we
  rested our fingers very lightly on it, and I had trouble
  "keeping up" with it as it zipped around under He's influence.
  Ariel said the same thing. I kept my eyes closed to preclude
  knowing what letter was where, although I did have a general
  feel of how the alphabet was laid out on the board.

  The next morning I realized that Bev had made reference to
  He..."Dew never he else"...but I can't imagine what she meant.

  I haven't decided what I believe about this phenomenon. As I
  think about it some more, I'll enter my opinion.

  Perry

    
    Hi Perry,
     Thanks for your entry.I have communicated with at least a dozen
    different entities,each one with its own way of operating the board.
    Many of them are poor spellers.I can tell which entity is on the
    board by their style.Let us know more,i find this subject quite
    facinating.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    
     

    	Perry,
    
    	Good luck in your Ouija board sessions.  The entities you
    	contact can be comforting and friendly, and I wish you all
    	the luck in the world (this or any other!).
    
    						Carla
    

    
    This subject has been quiet for a while.Anyone have any new stories
    to tell about your sessions?
    
    I was on my board last night.I remembered that someone had asked
    if we ever tried to operate the board without looking,so,i tried
    it.I had my son write down the letters while my wife and I closed
    our eyes and looked away from the board.It didnt make any difference
    at all.We still was able to communicate with our contact,no problem.
    Hmmmm.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Any U.K noters know where I can get hold of a board. I've lost mine,
    (long story!), good ���� paid. I'm very experienced!?!
    
    Tony Absolom @rdl