| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 470.1 | | MANTIS::PARE | | Wed Sep 02 1987 10:58 | 1 |
| Where can we get a copy?
|
| 470.2 | pointer | ERASER::KALLIS | Raise Hallowe'en awareness. | Wed Sep 02 1987 11:21 | 5 |
| re .1:
It's advertised each month in _Fate_, for one.
Steve Kallis, Jr.
|
| 470.3 | I do sometimes know | MPGS::SANTELLA | I don't never know | Wed Sep 02 1987 12:15 | 18 |
| Hello,
I obtained my copy from a "like really far out" bookstore in
Berkeley, California. They accept MasterCharge over the phone, and
are fairly prompt (three weeks and $22.00 later).
SHAMBHALA
2482 Telegraph Avenue
Berkeley, CA. 94704
415-848-8443
Re .2
Steve, If you could let me know the address/tel# of the adver-
tisement in _Fate_ magazine sometime, I'd really appreciate it. I
have yet to meet anyone who knows anything about OAHSPE teachings
or Societies. Thanks.
Steve
|
| 470.4 | Doubting Thomas wants to know.... | IKE::BUCUVALAS | | Thu Sep 03 1987 09:22 | 35 |
| OK ..... pardon me but I was there to teach Doubting Thomas what
"doubt" is.
Can the following questions be answered AND verified:
1. How do we know the paper wasn't acid-treated to approximate
a specific age characteristic? And doesn't acid-treating
fool carbon dating?
2. Was the book carbon dated?
3. How do we know that some man went out and bought a turn of
century typewriter and wrote the entire treatise on acid-treated
paper?
4. Who are the sources of this document and can we get in touch
with them for historical data?
5. Is the data they would supply supportable?
These 5 come to mind. Don't misunderstand, I WANT to believe, yet,
have met so many who claim so much and do so little.
Samurai Writer
BTW All: I am off to a new contract ... Friday is my last day and
sincerely doubt that I will see DEC for quite some time. I feel
as though (with a few exceptions obviously) I havae finally found
acceptance with the DEJAVU family......even though I have anever
met anyone in it with the exception of one (Hi Marcia .. :-) ...)
I feel as though I have known some of you for a *long* time and
will miss this symbolic home!
Lenny Bucuvalas
|
| 470.5 | a day off | VMSDEV::DICKINSON | don't let LAT get you down | Thu Sep 03 1987 10:14 | 13 |
|
.4;
There is nothing wrong with with skepticism, as long as it's honest,
and I beleive yours is.
I don't see how acid treating could fool carbon dating, since it
deals with the chemistry of electrons rather than that of nuclear
chemistr.
I have ordered a copy of the book, and will be looking for the ideas
it proposes rather than it's authenticity.
pd
|
| 470.6 | | BUMBLE::PARE | | Thu Sep 03 1987 10:37 | 12 |
| There is no real "proof" on the spiritual level. We all sort of
learn to trust our intuition to recognize truth when we see it and
to discard the extraneous stuff. Its what feels right, what makes
sense, its like trying to see into another dimension with only the
senses that are restricted to this dimension. Belief can be a trap
sometimes. After a while belief is left behind and concepts are
either accepted or they are not but the "act" of believing becomes
irrelevant.... it becomes a matter of will. For example, I no longer
eat meat because I don't want to... not because I believe it isn't
right to eat meat.
p.s.
We will all miss you Lenny... and hope you will come back soon.
|
| 470.7 | Skeptics are believers! | IKE::BUCUVALAS | | Thu Sep 03 1987 10:40 | 44 |
| My skepticism is honest and positive. While most say they seek the
light, I too am seeking. I am seeking Truthe~ ........ I am seeking
a door to the past to the origin of our creation in order that I
may find a way to our destiny.
I have read a great deal and have seen how some accomplished minds
can take a shred of truthe adn weave a most complex fabrication
from it, even to provide somewhat verifiable proof to their claims.
I know a little about carbon datin though not that much. I feel
that at least carbon dating on the original will verify it's alleged
age in years.
I am very interested in the description of this book and what may
be contained within its covers. So interested that I am also purchasing
this document to "feel" my way as I read in order that I may gain
some insight as to its authenticity.
But I do stress that there has been a lot of bullsh_t written simply
to cash in on a very profitable market. Being a writer myself, I
have found that it is easy to weave a lie out of a truthe. Therefore
my skepticism.
Things such as Oupensky's book The Fourth Way .. a dissertation
on Gurdjieff's teachings ... is a remarkable document which delineates
how to receive and use power yet Kurt Von Donaken's book on alien
intelligences was somewhat debunked a few years back. Other documents
that "explain" the nature and use of a crystal lattice structure
go off the deep end and actually give falsehoods as to the nature
of crystalline lattices yet The Dancing Wu Li Masters, a document
describing the esoteric nature of quantum physics, is most truthefull.
This is why I am skeptical. Yet they say that in all skeptics lies
the soul of a determined seeker of Truthe and Light......which is
what I am.
As an aside I am going to purchase the document set and see for
myself. Also I will try to trace its's roots to provide some form
or at least a pointer to its authenticity. Whether or not Iam with
DEC when I acquire this information, DEJAVU will see it as I will
type it up and give it to one of my friends in the company to enter
into this NOTES file.
Samurai Writer
|
| 470.8 | Authenticity? Maybe so ..... | IKE::BUCUVALAS | | Thu Sep 03 1987 10:49 | 22 |
| RE:6 D_MN SAM! I'm going to miss you all to! I know there's no proof
on a spiritual level, it's that little *voice* inside that leads
us to new revelations and through trial and erro/cause and effect,
we find proof of authenticity by seeing whether those *concepts*
work or not.
Belife can be a stumbling block to Truthe~ as the acct of beleving
itself may lead a seeker to accept that which she/he finds acceptable
rather than what is an absolute. I do believe there are some absolutes.
As we all believe in gray, we must accept that gray is a combination
of black + white. Another way of expressing this is yin + yang or
left + right .......... two absolutes form a moderate comprised
of both absolutes.
I approach the new concepts on a scientific basis employing
scientific methodology to attempt to verify the authenticity of
its source. At the same time I also read the documentation to absorb
and allow my inner *voice* to lead me ... to lead me as to whether
the concepts espoused within *feel* right and true.
Lenny
|
| 470.9 | GOOD LUCK | MTBLUE::PUSHARD_MIKE | | Thu Sep 03 1987 11:47 | 13 |
|
Good luck Lenny,and keep questioning until you are fully satisfied,its
the only way to find the answers that you seek.Where would we be
if people didnt doubt things and searched for the truth?
What works for one may not for another,its what works for us as
individuals,that will lead to knowledge and wisdom.
Take care.
PEACE
MICHAEL
|
| 470.10 | | AKOV68::FRETTS | Shine your Spirit! | Thu Sep 03 1987 17:16 | 17 |
|
Steve,
There is a copy of this book in the church I belong to. It used
to be out on display, but haven't seen it for awhile now. I do
recall that the book looked fairly old. Since the church is over
100 years old, perhaps the book was acquired by the founder. I'll
check this out and let you all know.
---------------
Lenny, take care.
Regards, Carole
|
| 470.11 | Try before you Buy | MPGS::SANTELLA | Rocks are Alive | Fri Sep 04 1987 08:27 | 136 |
| The following is Chapter I. My fingers are very happy that it is
quite short. The book uses an older style of English ("thee"s and
"thou"s) and therefore is somewhat difficult to slog through initially.
The beginning of the Kosman Era (the seventh era) was in the year 1848.
Whether this is analogous to the "New Age" or not, I can't say.
If you are heavily Christianized, you might want to voluntarily
SET/HIDDEN this reply as it is not my intention to insult or cause you
to contemplate your steadfast beliefs. Although OAHSPE holds Jesus in
a very high light, it does not afford the same privilege to Christian-
ity as you will see in the first chapter. But remember, Jesus did not
found Christianity. In my opinion---Oh, never mind.
Re .10 Thank you Carole, I'll look forward to hearing from you.
Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
OAHSPE
After the creation of man, the Creator, Jehovih, said unto him:
That thou shalt know thou art the work of My hand, I have given thee
capacity for knowledge, power, and dominion. This was the first era.
2. But man was helpless, he understood not the voice of the
Almighty, neither stood he upright. And Jehovih called His angels,
who were older than the earth, and He said unto them: Go ye, raise
man upright, and teach him to understand.
3. And the angels of heaven descended to the earth and raised
man upright. And man wandered about on the earth. This was the
second era.
4. Jehovih said to the angels that were with man: Behold, man
hath multiplied on the earth. Bring ye them together; teach them to
dwell in cities and nations.
5. And the angels of Jehovih taught the peoples of the earth to
dwell together in cities and nations. This was the third era.
6. And in that same time the Beast (self) rose up before man,
and spake to him, saying: Possess thou whatsoever thou wilt, for all
things are thine, and are good for thee.
7. And man obeyed the Beast; and war came into the world. This
was the fourth era.
8. And man was sick at heart, and he called out to the Beast,
saying: Thou saidst: Possess thyself of all things, for they are
good for thee. Now, behold, war and death have encompassed me about
on all sides. I pray thee, therefore, teach me peace!
9. But the Beast said: Think not I am come to send peace on the
earth; I come not to send peace, but a sword. I come to set man at
variance against his father; and a daughter against her mother.
Whatsoever thou findest to eat, be it fish or flesh, eat thou thereof,
taking no thought of tomorrow.
10. And man ate fish and flesh, becoming carnivorous, and
darkness came upon him, neither yet heard he the voice of Jehovih, nor
believed in Him. This was the fifth era.
11. And the Beast divided itself into four great heads, and
possessed the earth about; and man fell down and worshipped them.
12. And the names of the heads of the Beast were, BRAHMIN,
BUDDHIST, CHRISTIAN, and MOHAMMEDAN. And they divided the earth, and
apportioned it between themselves, choosing soldiers and standing
armies for the maintenance of their earthly aggrandizement.
13. And the Brahmins had seven million soldiers; the Buddhists
twenty million; the Christians seven million; and the Mohammedans two
million, whose trade was killing man. And man, in service of the
Beast, gave one-sixth of his life and his labor to war and standing
armies; and one-third of his life he have to dissipation and
drunkenness. This was the sixth era.
14. Jehovih called to man to desist from evil; but man heard Him
not. For the cunning of the Beast had changed man's flesh, so that
his soul was hid as if in a cloud, and he loved sin.
15. Jehovih called unto His angels in heaven, saying: Go ye
down to the earth once more, to man, whom I created to inhabit the
earth and enjoy it, and say ye to man: Thus saith Jehovih:
16. Behold, the seventh era is at hand. Thy Creator commandeth
thy change from a carnivorous man of contention, to an herbivorous man
of peace. The four heads of the Beast shall be put away; and war
shall be no more on the earth.
17. Thy armies shall be disbanded. And, from this time forth,
whosoever desireth not to war, thou shalt not impress; for it is the
commandment of thy Creator.
18. Neither shalt thou have any God, nor Lord, nor Savior, but
only thy Creator, Jehovih! Him only shalt thou worship henceforth
forever. I am sufficient unto Mine own creations.
19. And to as many as separate themselves from the dominion of
the Beast, making these covenants unto Me, have I given the
foundation of My kingdom on earth.
20. And all such shall be My chosen: By their covenants and by
their works shall they be known henceforth on the earth as Mine, and
shall be called FAITHISTS.
21. But to as many as will not make these covenants, have I given
the numbers of the Beast, and they shall be called UZIANS, signifying
destroyers. And these shall be henceforth the two kinds of people on
the earth, FAITHISTS, and UZIANS.
22. And the angels of heaven descended to the earth, to man and
appeared before him, face to face, hundreds of thousands of them,
speaking as man speaketh, and writing as man writeth, teaching these
things of Jehovih and His works.
23. And in the thirty-third year thereof, the Ambassadors of the
angel hosts of heaven, prepared and revealed unto man in the name of
Jehovih, His heavenly kingdoms; and have thus herein made known the
plan of His delightful creations, for the resurrection of the peoples
of the earth.
24. Not infallible is this Book, OAHSPE; but to teach mortals
HOW TO ATTAIN TO HEAR THE CREATOR'S VOICE, and to SEE HIS HEAVENS, in
full consciousness, whilst still living on the earth; and to know of a
truth the place and condition awaiting them after death.
25. Neither are, nor were, the revelations within this OAHSPE
wholly new to mortals. The same things have been revealed at the same
time unto many, who live at remote distances from one another, but who
were not in correspondence till afterward.
26. Because this light is thus comprehensive, embracing corporeal
and spiritual things, it is called the beginning of the KOSMAN ERA.
And because it relates to earth, sky and spirit, it is called OAHSPE.
|
| 470.12 | Carole, what church is it? | IKE::BUCUVALAS | | Fri Sep 04 1987 09:13 | 19 |
| RE: 10
Hi Carole and thank you ... BUT .... they have extended me another
2 weeks! OK .... who's out there influencing the ether? Whomever
... thanx .......
Carole could you send me the address and name of your church please?
I am very interested in attending a few times to "feel" what it's
like.
RE: 11
Yo! Very interesting! And it is my opiion also that Christ did not
establish religion .... Man established religion. What Christ did
was establish a philosophy of peace and (perhaps) a tutorial method
whereby Man can employ the facility for power Man was born to.
The more I hear about this book the more I want to read it.
Lenny
|
| 470.13 | Thou hast vexed my mind | DECWET::MITCHELL | The Disney Channeler | Fri Sep 04 1987 14:37 | 9 |
| RE: .11
Thanks for entering that. One thing that bothers me (as with the
book of Mormon) is that it is writen in pseudo-King James English
when that language was not being spoken at the time of the writing.
This is to make it sound more "bible-like" and dignified. But if
the content is true, why the need for such artifice?
John M.
|
| 470.14 | Ye King James English, y'all | PBSVAX::COOPER | Topher Cooper | Fri Sep 04 1987 15:41 | 24 |
| RE: .13
I always find that amusing also, that there seems a widespread belief,
apparently because of the King James bible, that spirits, gods,
etc. naturally speak the language of that era.
One possibility is that what is being channeled from the higher
entity is not "words" but ideas. And the expression of those ideas
is subject to the subconscious limitations and biases of the "channel."
I have a request. If anyone is going to type in more passages,
how about the passages which anticipate future scientific discoveries
about relativity, etc. This way we can judge for ourselves whether
the references are unambiguous enough to be taken seriously (assuming
that the currently available editions correctly reflect the actual
contents of the supposed document predating those discoveries).
Wisdom may exist in this "bible" without this being true, but *if*
the author has truely demonstrated such advanced knowledge of the
structure of the universe, than I would certainly have a reason
to spend time looking at this document in preference to many seemingly
similar ones.
Topher
|
| 470.15 | It really _is_ old! | AKOV68::FRETTS | Shine your Spirit! | Thu Sep 10 1987 08:58 | 13 |
|
Well, I finally got some more information on this book. Over the
weekend, I spoke with a woman who used to be on the Board of
Directors of my church. She recalls hearing that the Oahspe book
was used by the founder (Marcellus S. Ayer) as a teaching source.
He passed away in 1921, and the church was formed in 1883 - so it's
a good guess that the book's origin date of 1881 is accurate. She
also said that there were three additional copies somewhere in the
church archives.
Carole
|
| 470.16 | some more info | STAR::DICKINSON | | Fri Sep 11 1987 17:10 | 46 |
|
The copy I ordered just arrived - here is whats on the first page:
OAHSPE
a
NEW BIBLE
in the
WORDS OF JEHOVIH
and the
ANGEL EMBASSADORS.
-----------------
A SACRED HISTORY
Of the Dominion of the higher and lower heavens on the earth
together with
A synopsis of the cosmogony of the universe, the creation of planets,
the creation of man, the unseen worlds, the labor and glory of Gods
and Godesses in the etherean heavens,
with the
new commandents of jehovih to man of the present day. With revelations
from the second resurrection, formed in words in the thiry
third year of the KOSMON era.
OAHSPE PUBLISHING ASSOCIATION,
NEW YORK and LONDON,
(1882)
Anno Kosmon 34.
**
The book is pretty thick, I'll try to enter stuff here when time
permits. I am curious about who/what Anno Kosmon (age 34??) is.
peter
|
| 470.17 | September 14, 139 A.K. | USRCV1::CARNELLP | I gotta get another hat | Mon Sep 14 1987 11:22 | 11 |
| Re: .16
> I am curious about who/what Anno Kosmon (age 34??) is.
It would seem to indicate that the date of publication was in the
34th year after (Anno) Kosman, what/who ever Kosman is. Such as
Anno Domini (A.D.) means in the years after the birth of Christ.
> ...formed in words in the thiry third year of the KOSMON era.
Paul.
|
| 470.18 | | MTV::NEWFIELD | | Tue Sep 29 1987 09:50 | 5 |
|
Also available at:
The Alchemist
Hudson Ma
|
| 470.19 | Is This Topic Dead? | CHGV04::ORZECH | Alvin Orzechowski @RDC | Mon Oct 19 1987 02:31 | 25 |
| It was just getting interesting. I still want to know if anyone can
verify the age of this book.
RE: .11
That first chapter whetted my appetite for more mainly because it
corresponds to something that I've been thinking for many years; how
can a God, described as Father, condemn whole groups of people who
never could have been converted to the "true" faith because they
didn't know about it? Also, how can a God, described as all-loving,
condemn anyone who removes themselves from a formal "faith" but stills
tries to lead a good life because he/she sees that as the best way to
live - God or no God? The answer I believe is, if there is a God who
merits those given titles, then that God probably couldn't condemn as
easily as some would have that God do. I confess that this is a
self-serving answer. So is my interest in this book. But I am
skeptic. If this book really is as old as the introduction says _and_
it was written as described, I'd be happy to know.
By the way, this is *not* a request for someone to type in more of
this book; it's just meant to be a prod to keep this discussion going
and a call to anyone who's done more research on this book to share
their findings.
Alvin
|
| 470.20 | | AKOV11::FRETTS | Shine your Spirit! | Mon Oct 19 1987 12:11 | 8 |
|
re: .19
I guess my reply .15 is not enough to verify the age of the book?
Carole
|
| 470.21 | Charter Member-FDA (Future Dead of America) | MPGS::SANTELLA | | Mon Oct 19 1987 13:51 | 46 |
| RE: .19
I haven't given up on this topic, but as I mentioned before,
the book is incredibly difficult to slog through due to the old
style English used, and the cryptic tablets used to decipher old
ceremonies. Somebody is trying to say something but I'll be damned
if I can figure out the gist of the entire volume as a whole.
Verification of the age of the book is easily accomplished by
copyright dates. First American edition date is listed as 1882.
Whether copyright dates can be doctored or not I don't know --
anyway why is that so important?
There is something rather disturbing about both editions that
I currently have (the first being copyrighted 1945, and the second
is the latest available). In 1935, the rights to the book were
given over to a man named Edward Wing Anderson. Ed took it upon
himself to add copious footnotes to his edition of the book -- his
edition is the only one available since 1935. As Ed saw fit to
add to the book he also allowed himself the authority to delete
from it. Therefore, ALL OF THE SECRET RITES AND CEREMONIES were
withheld from publication, or as Ed puts it:
"(Signs and passwords, and form of initiation
withheld from publication, because the rites
are still practiced.)"
There is NO WAY to be able to understand the hundred or so cryptic
diagrams without these passages. Atta boy Ed. Rewrite history?
No problem. Our only recourse is to ask Carole (hint, hint) to
look at the ancient (pre 1935) editions she has in her church to see
if these passages exist in those versions. Especially in the book
of "Sapah" which is an account of the North American Mound Builders,
and their beliefs.
I would appreciate others who are reading OAHSPE to enter their
ideas also as it is impossible for me to read and understand it
on my own. *:-?. Besides, after seeing all these deletions, I'd
much rather whet my appetite with The Urantia Book.
Steve
Steve
|
| 470.22 | | AKOV11::FRETTS | Shine your Spirit! | Mon Oct 19 1987 13:59 | 10 |
|
Steve,
I'll see if I can get a look at the book over the weekend. If
they've stored it away, I may not be able to (just so that you
don't get your hopes up to high and then be disappointed :-)).
Carole
|
| 470.23 | Dates won't confirm authenticity, but... | CHGV04::ORZECH | Alvin Orzechowski @RDC | Wed Oct 21 1987 03:14 | 66 |
| RE: .20
> I guess my reply .15 is not enough to verify the age of the book?
Sorry, Carole, but in .15 you said:
> He passed away in 1921, and the church was formed in 1883 - so it's
> a good guess that the book's origin date of 1881 is accurate. She
That's "guess," right? No reflection meant on the woman from your
church, but, according to your REPLY, she herself has never actually
*seen* the book, only heard about it. I will be very interested to
know that *you've* actually seen a copy that's been around since
before 1921.
Being old enough to remember the "Hitler Diary" forgery a few years
ago, I'm skeptical of documents whose history can't be verified. Or
how about _Desiderata_ having been "found on the wall" of an old
missionary or something like that? One of my favorite writings by the
way, but its author and the date of its writing is known. The "found
on the wall..." bit was his too, but I don't think it was meant to
mislead anyone, only to give it an air of mystery. After all, the man
was a poet.
Now I don't mean to imply that _Desiderata_ is a forgery, or that the
bogus "Hitler Diary" is inspirational. I only want to point out that
that nice story about a so called Dr. John B. Newbrough being a
"sincere seeker after spiritual light" and sitting before a typewriter
and finding "that his hands typed without his conscious control" and
all the rest, may be just that; a nice story. Is _OAHSPE, A New
Bible_ an inspirational writing or some kind of strange novel? Did
Dr. John B. Newbrough really exist and, if so, did he live around the
end of the ninetieth century? Is he known for anything else? Maybe
confirming the 1881 date will generate more questions, but at least
it'll be known that the document is authentically from that time.
RE: .21
> Whether copyright dates can be doctored or not I don't know --
> anyway why is that so important?
See above.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
New questions for Steve:
1. Did you say you had two copies of this book? It's not clear to me
where this second copy came from.
2. Didn't you say the "currently available edition is a
photocopied... version of the 1881 manuscript?" If so:
a. Is the 1882 copyright date you mention part of the photocopied
part, or part of a list of such dates?
b. Did Edward Wing Anderson block out pages or something?
c. Do his footnotes appear to *not* be part of the original
document?
3. Do either one of your copies show a Library of Congress Number?
Alvin
|
| 470.24 | snicker | VINO::EVANS | | Wed Oct 21 1987 11:35 | 8 |
| RE:.23
[Desiderata found].."on the wall of an old missionary.."
Good Heavens, had he been tattooed?! :-)
--DE
|
| 470.25 | | DECWET::MITCHELL | Choose short personal names because | Wed Oct 21 1987 13:30 | 9 |
| RE: .23
I believe the Desiderata footnote said "Found in Old St. Peter's
church."
Uh... Who DID write it and when?
John M.
|
| 470.26 | | AKOV11::FRETTS | Shine your Spirit! | Fri Oct 23 1987 09:27 | 31 |
|
Well, I have right here in my little hands the Oahspe book from
my church. The copyright date is 1882. It measures 9" x 11", is
2" thick, contains 890 pages and is bound in leather (I think).
It is rather worn. The pastors confirmed that it was used as a
teaching resource by the founder of the church and others who
followed him. There are many hand written dates throughout the
text, ranging from 1883 into the 1930's, though there could be
later ones that I missed. I'm not sure what they mean.
Steve (or anyone else who has a copy), do your editions have at
the back of the book a copy of a letter written by the author
describing how the book was written? At the back of this book,
there are 6 typewritten pages glued to blank book pages. They
look like the original typed copy, with minor typos here and
there and one or two erasures and type-overs. There is no way
to tell if this is the author's original letter, or if someone
typed this up to have a copy. There is no hand-written signature,
just a typed name at the bottom "J. B. Newbrough". It is dated
"New York, Jan. 21st, 1883." and was addressed -
"To the Editor of the Banner of Light:"
whoever that may be. I would be willing to go through the
book to see if the removed sections are in this copy. I will also
be entering the content of the author's letter in a new reply.
Carole
|
| 470.27 | | AKOV11::FRETTS | Shine your Spirit! | Fri Oct 23 1987 13:23 | 170 |
|
Here's the letter written by the author of OAHSPE, for those
interested.
Carole
-------------------------------------------------------------
"OAHSPE"--THE NEW BIBLE--HOW PRODUCED.
To the Editor of the Banner of Light:
In compliance with your request that I furnish for publication
a brief article in regard to the writing of Oahspe, the New Bible,
I cheerfully proceed to do so.
You have observed, no doubt, that in Oahspe no mention is made
of the manner in which the book was written, nor by whom. Well,
was it not plain to anybody acquainted with such matters, that any
statement on my part would not be believed by persons unacquainted
with spiritual manifestations? And had I said that I myself wrote
it, my own acquaintances would have known better. Had I said that
the angels wrote it through my hands, then I would have been denounc-
ed as a pretender. Again, if a book have merit, what matters it as
to who wrote it? And if it have no merit, then certainly it does
not matter whence it came. The time has been when the name of an
author clothed his product with some sort of authority. I rejoice
that that day is past: that man-worship is at an end, and that all
books, including Bibles, are perused not as authorities, but as pas-
times, to lead us nearer and nearer to the Everlasting Light. And
if a man turn out a good book, I accord him little more credit than
I would a ripe apple for being on the sunny side of the tree. But
I rejoice most of all because our Heavenly Father, through his an-
gels cooperating with our forefathers, provided us a government
that protects us in publishing our highest conceptions, regardless
of creeds or dogmas. Why, to-day we have Protestant preachers in
their pulpits denying the inspiration of the Old and New Testaments,
and only in the slightest possible degree less than Thomas Paine.
They begin to judge so-called sacred books according to what they
are, and not be a supposed authority. This is progress undoubtedly.
On reflecting on these things, it was concluded to publish the
first edition of Oahspe without any reference to its authorship.
No attempt has been made to conceal the method in which it was writ-
ten, but most of the particulars have been told from time to time
to inquiring friends.
Briefly, then, Oahspe was mechanically written through my
hands by some other intelligence than my own. Many Spiritualists
are acquainted with this automatic movement of the hands, independ-
ent of one's own volition. There are thousands and thousands of
persons who have this quality. It can also be educated, or rather,
the susceptibility to external power can be increased. In my own
case I discovered, a great many years ago, in sitting in circles
to obtain spiritual manifestations, that my hands could not lie on
the table without flying off into these "tantrums". Often they
would write messages, left or right, backward or forward, nor could
I control them any other way than by withdrawing from the table.
Sometimes, the power thus baffled would attack my tongue, or my
eyes or my ears, and I talked and saw and heard differently from my
normal state. Then I went to work in earnest to investigate Spirit-
ualism, and I investigated over two hundred mediums, traveling hun-
dreds and hundreds of miles for this purpose. Often I took them to
my own house and experimented with them to my heart's content. I
found that nearly all of them were subject to this involuntary move-
ment of the hands, or to entrancement. They told me it was angels
controlling them. In course of time, about ten or fifteen years, I
began to believe in Spiritualism. But I was not satisfied with the
communications; I was craving for the light of heaven. I did not
desire communications from friends or relatives, or information
about earthly things; I wished to learn something about the spirit-
world; what the angels did, how they traveled, and the general plan
of the universe. So after a while I took it into my head that wise
and exalted angels would commune better with us if we purified our-
selves physically and spiritually. Then I gave up eating flesh and
fish, milk and butter, and took to rising before day, bathing twice
a day, and occupying a small room alone, where I sat every morning
half an hour before sunrise, recounting daily to my Creator my
shortcomings in governing myself in thought and deed. In six years'
training I reduced myself from two hundred and fifty pounds down to
one hundred and eighty; my rheumatism was all gone, and I had no
more headaches. I became limber and sprightly. A new lease of
life came to me.
Then a new condition of control came upon my hands; instead of
the angels holding my hands, as formerly, they held their hands over
my head (and they were clothed with sufficient materiality for me
to see them), and a light fell upon my own hands as they lay on the
table. In the meantime I had attained to hear audible angel voices
near me. I was directed to get a typewriter, which writes by keys,
like a piano. This I did, and I applied myself industriusly to
learn it, but with only indifferent success. For two years more
the angels propounded to me questions relative to heaven and earth,
which no mortal could answer very intelligently. I always look
back on those two years as an enigma. Perhaps it was to show me
that man is but an ignoramus at best; perhaps I was waiting for
constitutional growth to be good. Well, one morning the light
struck both my hands on the back, and they went for the typewriter,
for some fifteen minutes, very vigorously. I was told not to read
what was printed, and I had worked myself into such a religious
fear of losing this new power that I obeyed reverently. The next
morning, also, before sunrise, the same power came and wrote (or
printed rather) again. Again I laid the matter away very religious-
ly, saying little about it to anybody. One morning I accidentally
(seemed accidental to me) looked out of the window and beheld the
line of light that rested on my hands extending heavenward like a
telegraph wire toward the sky. Over my head were three pairs of
hands, fully materialized; behind me stood another angel, with her
hands on my shoulders. My looking did not disturb the scene; my
hands kept right on, printing--printing.
For fifty weeks this continued every morning, half an hour or
so before sunrise, and then it ceased, and I was told to read and
publish the book Oahspe. The peculiar drawings in Oahspe were made
with pencil in the same way. A few of the drawings I was told to
copy from other books, such as Saturn, the Egyptian ceremonies,
etc. But I had no money, for I had previously fulfilled the com-
mandment of giving to the poor all I had, putting my faith in the
Father, making myself a servant to him by doing all the good that I
could unto others. In fact I had thrown myself into his keeping,
to do his will, hoping to render some good that might help to raise
the nations into a harmonious brotherhood. So when I was told to
publish the book, and perceiving it would require several thousand
dollars to do it, I kept constantly saying to Jehovih, "I know this
is from thee, through thy angels, and I have faith thou wilt pro-
vide in due season." Well, one day the postman delivered a small
paper box to one of the members of my family, addressed to me. It
contained fifteen hundred dollars in bills, with a note for its ap-
plication to be for publishing the book. I never learned who sent
the money. One thousand dollars more, in bills also, were sent to
me by an Englishman, a stranger to me. Five hundred dollars, also
in bills, were sent to me by an errand boy who disappeared before
we knew what the box contained, and so I knew not from whom it
came. There thus came in all over eleven thousand dollars to me to
publish and engrave the book. Besides this a few of my own friends
threw in a little afterward, so that I had in all upward of four-
teen thousand dollars sent me, enough to publish the first edition
and to provide a splendid printing-press, type and sterotype ma-
chinery besides. Neither did I ever ask anybody for one single
dollar for the publication or engraving.
Now, during all the while I have pursued my avocation (dentis-
try), nor has this matter, nor my diet (vegetables, fruit and fari-
naceous food) detracted any from my health or strength, although I
have continued this discipline for upward of ten or more years. I
am firmly convinced that there are hundreds of mediums who might
attain to marvellous development if they would thus train them-
selves. A strict integrity and purity should be the motto and
discipline of every one capable of angel communion. With this in
their practice, we might have enough Bibles in a little while to
deluge the religious world. But since _talking of one's self is the
greatest damage one can do his own mediumship_, I thus close.
Truly yours,
J. B. NEWBROUGH
P. S. Oahspe has gone into the churches, reaching a community
that most other spiritual productions cannot enter. The first edi-
tion of three thousand copies is nearly all sold. To the clergy of
New York and Brooklyn we have sold about one hundred and fifty co-
pies, and given away about as many more.
J. B. N.
New York, Jan. 21st, 1883.
|
| 470.28 | Copyrights are recorded | REGENT::BROOMHEAD | Don't panic -- yet. | Fri Oct 23 1987 16:50 | 12 |
| It should be a simple matter to contact the Library of Congress,
and ask them for the original copyright date on this book. Part
of the copyright process in this country involves sending two (or
three?) copies of a work to the LoC. (And you wondered where they
got all those books.)
I noticed that the author of OAHSPE used the term "typewriter".
Are you sure you copied that correctly? In the nineteenth century,
and into the twentieth, "typewriting machine" was the dominent
term, and "typewriter" meant the typist.
Ann B.
|
| 470.29 | | AKOV11::FRETTS | Shine your Spirit! | Fri Oct 23 1987 17:00 | 7 |
|
I checked it again and it does say "typewriter" when referencing
the machine.
Carole
|
| 470.30 | I am at best an ignoramus | MPGS::SANTELLA | | Mon Oct 26 1987 14:20 | 89 |
| Hello,
Thanks for entering the material. It was fascinating. Would I
love to give it all up, let God do the driving, and live in a one room
shack. I'm sure my wife would understand? Well, maybe someday.
Concerning the manner written, the 1945 edition states only what
is contained in the preface that I typed in to open this topic. The
photocopied version (known as the "Green Oahspe" copied from the 1882
edition) that I just recently bought contains an addenum written by
the current publisher Ray Palmer. The article written to "The Banner
of Light" which you typed in is mentioned, however, is not included.
Instead is an account from the diary of the grandson of Edwin Davis
(Edwin Augustus Davis was John Newbrough's closest friend and is
responsible for the much of the footnote information). This account
differs quite from the Banner article in that John Newbrough was
originally contacted by the other beings early in 1870, and purified
himself for 10 years, etc.,etc.,etc.
The original manuscript and paintings, it is said, were destroyed
by a flood in El Paso, Texas, after being carefully checked against
the 1891 edition by Andrew Howland, who aided Newbrough in the work of
revising the 1882 edition. Newbrough's daughter maintains that the
only differences between the two versions are the elimination of some
typographical errors. However, Andrew Howland, in a letter written in
1883 mentions the the Book of Praise was nearly double its present
size, and that quite likely this is also true of the Book of Ben. The
Book of Discipline, which appears in the 1881 edition, does not appear
in the 1882 edition, and unfortunately there is now no evidence that
it appeared in the original manuscript......
I am not going to continue expounding on these contradictions --
there are tooooooo many.
Ray Palmer also mentions that it took him 15 years of diligent
searching to find an original 1882 copy -- the one you are holding in
your hands, Carole!! Evidently he doesn't have DECnet.
>I would be willing to go through the book to see if the removed
>sections are in this copy.
Great - here we go!!
1. Does it have an index at the back of the book?
2. Is there a list of portraits in the front or back of the book?
These portraits are drawings of the major lawgivers
during the times that the book covers. Although the
portraits do show up in my photocopied edition, the 1945
edition states that the original electro-plates were lost,
therefore not printed in any edition after 1891. Also, are
these portraits in your copy at the following pages?
a. Zarathustra opposite page 172
b. Po opposite page 312
c. Abram opposite page 324
d. Ea-Wah-Tah opposite page 362
e. Moses opposite page 496
f. Joshu opposite page 708
3. Deletions occur at the following places:
Book of Saphah
Chapter of Fonece after verse 56
Chapter of Kii after verse 24
Chapter of Port-Pan Algonquin after verse 39
Chapter of Anubis (the haunted chamber) after verse 45
Chapter of Emethachavah after verse 49
Chapter of Hi'dang after verse 42
Chapter of Chamber of Adepts after verse 16
After the verses indicated, in parentheses, is usually a
short sentence saying something like " withheld from
publication", or "signs and passwords, mystic ceremony,
bells, and music, etc. withheld from publication".
My only concern is whether these passages were deleted
before or after the first edition of the book.
4. Does your copy have The Book of Discipline?
If it does, you have one of the rarest copies imaginable.
I've just read through my reply and find it to be the most
confused piece of writing I have ever conceived. I can't possibly
imagine why. Please excuse me -- I am trying.
Love, Steve.
P.S. The spell checker loved this one.
|
| 470.31 | I'm impressed... | CHGV04::ORZECH | Alvin Orzechowski @RDC | Mon Oct 26 1987 18:13 | 29 |
| and more interested than ever.
Carole, that's great! Did you get to borrow the book, or can you only
look at it at your church? And Steve, did you ever get around to
reading .23, especially, now, the questions about the photo-copy?
RE: .24
D*mn, I wish I could take credit for that one! No, it was just a
typo. I wish all of my typos were as witty! (:^D
RE: .25
> Uh... Who DID write it (Desiderata) and when?
Brooke House publishes "Desiderata" with illustrations by Emil
Antonucci. Here's the afterword, sans the promotional hype:
_Desiderata_, which is usually said to have been copied from
an inscription "found in Old Saint Paul's Church, Baltimore;
dated 1692," was actually written by an Indiana poet named
Max Ehrmann and registered with the Copyright Office of the
Library of Congress early in 1927. Copyright was renewed
after the author's death by his widow, and the work is still
protected by the United States Copyright Law. Thus, this
popular philosophical statement is neither anonymous nor
ancient, having both an author and a fairly recent date...
Alvin
|
| 470.32 | | DECWET::MITCHELL | Choose short personal names because | Mon Oct 26 1987 19:10 | 10 |
| RE: .31
Thanks for the desiderata info!
Now I wonder where that "Old St. Paul's" line came from?
John M.
This whole OHASPE thing is engrossing. I can't wait till the
comparison is done!
|
| 470.34 | | AKOV11::FRETTS | believe in who you are... | Tue Oct 27 1987 09:13 | 71 |
| Hi all,
I borrowed the book for as long as I need it! However, the results
of my search are not promising. Here goes...
> 1. Does it have an index at the back of the book?
No. There is a 2-page index at the from of the book.
> 2. Is there a list of portraits in the front or back of the book?
> These portraits are drawings of the major lawgivers
> during the times that the book covers. Although the
> portraits do show up in my photocopied edition, the 1945
> edition states that the original electro-plates were lost,
> therefore not printed in any edition after 1891. Also, are
> these portraits in your copy at the following pages?
> a. Zarathustra opposite page 172
> b. Po opposite page 312
> c. Abram opposite page 324
> d. Ea-Wah-Tah opposite page 362
> e. Moses opposite page 496
> f. Joshu opposite page 708
No. There is an index of principal plates at the front of the
book (one page). None of the above were listed in it, nor
were the portraits where you suggested.
> 3. Deletions occur at the following places:
> Book of Saphah
> Chapter of Fonece after verse 56
> Chapter of Kii after verse 24
> Chapter of Port-Pan Algonquin after verse 39
> Chapter of Anubis (the haunted chamber) after verse 45
> Chapter of Emethachavah after verse 49
> Chapter of Hi'dang after verse 42
> Chapter of Chamber of Adepts after verse 16
All of these chapters end at the same place except for
Port-Pan Algonquin which has two more verses, as follows:
"40. Thou art wise, and now, by virtue of my power and
wisdom and love, do I crown thee brother of the Hoanga
(prophets). Peace be with thee, Amen!
41. He who taught thee all the other signs will now
teach thee three thou knowest not. After which the Oi
will invest thee with cloth and with the signs of Chaigi
(words of enchantment), that when thou travelest in far-
off lands thou shalt be received as a brother.
(Signs and pass-words withheld from publication.)"
> 4. Does your copy have The Book of Discipline?
> If it does, you have one of the rarest copies imaginable.
No.
Does your book have a Commentary at the back (3 pages)? A glossary
of words at the front? A two-page synopsis at the front?
I am disappointed at my findings. However, I won't give up yet! :-)
There are supposed to be other copies around, and I will call one of
the pastors today to see if he can round them up for me.
Carole
|
| 470.35 | Where do dying topics go to die? | CHGV04::ORZECH | Alvin Orzechowski @RDC | Mon Nov 16 1987 15:17 | 11 |
| I don't know, but I hope this one isn't going there.
FYI I just checked _Books In Print_ and OAHSPE is still there. So,
for those of us who don't get the magazine mentioned in an earlier
note, you can order it through your local bookstore. Cost: $21.00 or
$21.95, I forget.
To anyone who's seen/read this tome; is it worth the cost just to
satisfy a curiosity?
Alvin
|
| 470.36 | | AKOV11::FRETTS | believe in who you are... | Mon Nov 16 1987 16:00 | 10 |
|
Hi Alvin,
No, this topic is not going to die! I'm waiting for the
pastor of my church to find the other copies of the OAHSPE
so that I can go through them and see if the missing sections
are in there. I'm hoping to get them this weekend.
Carole
|
| 470.37 | | BUMBLE::PARE | What a long, strange trip its been | Tue Nov 17 1987 10:03 | 2 |
| Great Carole! I'm looking forward to reading them.
Mary
|
| 470.38 | | AKOV11::FRETTS | you are a shining star... | Tue Jan 05 1988 13:08 | 46 |
|
Hello all,
Well, I finally managed to get all the copies of OAHSPE from my
church library and took them home. This was no easy task, as they
had some minor concern about having all the copies outside the
library, and there are approximately 20 books.
I went through each one to check for the missing material. Here's
what I came up with....
Re: .30
> Does it have an index at the back of the book?
Yes.
> Is there a list of portraits in the front or back of the book?
Yes - in the front.
It does contain the portraits mentioned (a thru f).
> Deletions - Book of Saphah
Unfortunately, none of the passages are contained in any of the
copies I have. I would guess they were never included in any of
the additions.
> Does your copy have the Book of Discipline?
Yes.
One of the books has a picture of the author in it with his
signature. He was quite a striking looking individual.
I don't know if I will ever read through this book. I started
to read a bit here and there and it is quite a lot to grasp.
I am still willing, however, to do research and to try and
answer questions.
Regards, Carole
|
| 470.39 | Discussion perhaps? | SCOPE::PAINTER | Life only appears to be chaotic. | Wed Jan 06 1988 14:30 | 16 |
|
Carole,
I received the Urantia book as a gift a couple of days ago and would
be interested in participating in a discussion comparing the two
in certain areas - particularly that of what Jesus was supposed
to have done (and places he travelled to) during those 'lost years'.
The Urantia version differs with E. Prophet's findings in her book
"The Lost Years Of Jesus", though I haven't really delved much into
the Urantia book at this point, so this is only about an hour's worth
of comparing.
So much to read.....so little time.
Cindy
|
| 470.40 | | AKOV11::FRETTS | you are a shining star... | Wed Jan 06 1988 14:53 | 10 |
|
Hi Cindy,
I'll review the OAHSPE and see what I can find. At least it is
a place to start, and is a subject that I am being very strongly
drawn to now. Will let you know what I come up with initially.
Carole
|
| 470.41 | What was that about curiosity? | CHGV04::ORZECH | Alvin Orzechowski @RDC | Wed Feb 10 1988 15:53 | 17 |
| I just ordered a copy from my local bookstore. In case someone wants
to order it on their own (I don't get "Fate" magazine either), _Books
in Print_ shows the following information:
Oahspe, 1882
John Newbrough
Amherst Press
$21.95
It doesn't seem to be in paperback.
If my bookstore's suppliers don't have it in stock (anyone wanna puts
odds on _that_ probability (:^D), it'll cost me about $2 more and I'll
have to wait a month.
Alvin
|
| 470.42 | Quotes on The Bible | ACE::MOORE | | Thu Oct 11 1990 17:59 | 12 |
|
The Bible contains the vitamins for a healthy soul.
Bible verses will save you from spiritual reverses.
It's a terrible responsibility to own a Bible.
We should study the Bible as a privilege, not as a duty.
Don't criticize the Bible; let the Bible criticize you.
RM
|
| 470.43 | Another quote | USAT05::KASPER | Drumming to beat all hell... | Tue Oct 16 1990 09:59 | 8 |
|
I got another one...
Don't believe everything you read...
Terry
|