Conference hydra::dejavu

    What does it mean???
    
    -d
    

<---
Possibly Rossicurians? [not sure of the spelling] A religion that uses
marijuana as part of its practice?????

<--- NOPE!
Rosicrucian   n.  A member of an international fraternity of religious
mysticism devoted to the application of esoteric religious doctrine to
modern life.  

    Re: .0
    
    What kind of stuff did your mother do that blew your mind???
    
    Sheila
    

       ...no one ever said these respondants have no humor!
      
    I have a co-worker who is a Rosecrucian...they have an Egyptian
    museum nearby in San Jose complete with mummies, etc.  It is one
    of the largest of its type around.  I also have another friend who
    is a Rosecrucian, along with a former girlfriend, although I myself
    know very little about them.  I will try, however, to get my co-worker
    to enter some information.  
      
    Frederick
    

    
    The Rosicrucian Order was founded by the ancient Egyptians.  Presently
    many of the advanced practices are extremely secretive and from
    what I understand always have been.
    

    
    
    My mom always claimed to be able to clearly see a persons aura.
    Very early in life I learned to trust her judgement about people.
    
    	The one thing she did that made me significantly less skeptical
    occured when I was 9 years old.  I was running barefoot and stepped
    on a broken glass bottle.  My left foot was nearly severed at the
    arch.  The blood was pouring out like a faucet.  My mother came
    right over to me and placed her hand over my foot without touching
    me.  She closed her eyes and within 30 seconds all bleeding had
    stopped.  The six! doctors who were called in one at a time were
    at a loss to explain why my nearly severed foot was not pumping
    out blood.  My foot quickly healed and is as good as new.  To this
    day I know of no other explanation of why the bleeding had stopped
    immediately.  She attributed it to one of the secret practices she
    had mastered as a member of the order.

	The Brotherhood of the Rosy Cross was founded by Christian Rosenkreuz,
during the XV - XVI (?) century. Rosenkreuz, according to tradition, spent his
life in the orient, searching for occult wisdom and haven found it, founded the 
Brotherhood.
	At his death his was buried in a secret place. After 120 years, a
Brother from the order found his tomb. This was the signal for the Brotherhood
to declare its existence openly and invite the learned from Europe to join.
	This was done by means of a pamphlet published in 1614 titled "Fama
Fraternitas of the Worthy Order of the Rosy Cross". In it was revealed the above
story and an open invitation for those interested to join (by only making their
interest known; accordingly, those who did so would be eventually contacted).
A year later another Rosicrucian pamphlet apeard "Confessio Fraternitas", this
one spoke of a reformed world and hinted at some marvelous occult knowledge.
	A third publication "The Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreuz"
appeard about a year later of the previous one. Curiously, this short novel
was very similar to one published ten years before,"The Chemical Wedding"
written by a minister named Johann Valentin Andreae, and scholars established
that he was the author of both writtings and probably of the other two.
	Andrae was in fact a member of the Brothehood (as incidently, was also
Sir Isaac Newton, who later dedicated much of his effort to researches into
alchemy). Although the origin of the Brotherhood is still somewhat vague, there
has been some recent findings that connect it with an even older order...

	In 1888 Berenger Sauniere the priest of Rennes-Le-Chateau ( a small
village on the French side of the Pyrinees) was making some repairs to the
church. Workmen discovered that one of the pillars of the high altar was hollow
and inside they found three wooden tubes containing rolls of parchment. The 
writing seem to be in some kind of code which Sauniere tried to decode. He was
sent to Paris to consult experts, and when he returned he did so as a rich man;
which was rather strange. Sauniere was sent to Rennes-Le-Chateau as a kind of
punishment, trying to quiet his rebeliousness and he was very poor.
	With the wealth he brough, he builted several things for the village
and of course, built an elaborated church which he adorned (among other things)
with two paintings bought while in Paris:"St. Antony the Hermit" by Teniers
and "Les Bergeres d'Arcadie" (The Sheperherdesses of Arcadia) by Poussin's,
and with and enourmous lame demon carrying the font of holy water. Over the
door he had the words "Dreadfull is this place" inscribed.
	There was some speculation that Sauniere was led to a treasure, posibly
the treasure of the Cathars, an heretic sect asociated with this region and 
whose last adherents were burned alive in 1243. It is said that three men
escaped carrying "The treasure of the Cathars" aldo others believed that this 
treasure were the Holy Books and not a treasure in the common sense. The story 
of the treasure was believed because of the simbologic asociation of the lame
demon. The lame demon has been identified with Asmodeous, the guardian of
King Salomon's legendary treasure. 
	Henry Lincoln, an english scholar of present time, decoded Saunire's
manuscript (using a computer) and also the hidden secrets of the two paintings.
Rennes-Le-Chateau was once called Aereda, and was an important centre of the
Knights Templar, the order dedicated to guarding the temple of Jerusalem.
Lincoln uncovered evidence that the templars were conected to a much ancient 
secret order known as The Priory of Sion, also connected to the temple of 
Jerusalem. Strong evidence shows that this secret society continued down the 
ages, and that the Rosicrucians were The Priory of Sion under another name.
	So Sauniere discovered some secrets of the order of the Rosicrucians
and the money he received was from them.
	

	By the way, according to my sources, there is no direct linking of the
above mentioned (by means of the tradition) with the modern order of the
Rosicrucians in California -AMORC-.



- JSR -
 

    Reply to .2; Jollimore,
    
    Those folks are Rastiferians. As a member you get to smoke alotta' dope
    and throw your comb or brush away. 

RE: < Note 428.9 by NEXUS::MORGAN "Mike Morgan -- DTN 522-5765" >

Ah, yes! Never was good at names. Actually, I think I used to know some.
Never knew they were an organized group with a name, people just called 'em
hippies/yippes/wierdos/freaks  ;') Come to think of it, I may have bin
one.

Jay

    


Addendum to .8:


I forgot to mention some details, so here they are:

	
	After the first Rosicrucian publication appeard inviting those with 
interest to become members, Dozens  did; however, its not publicly known if
any of these were in fact admited to the order.
	The Brotherhood held its meetings *very* privately and most of its
teachings were secret. Knowledge was imparted by the Grand Master and mostly
by some other brothers who have mastered different aspects of knowledge. This
was done during their meetings under both trascendental and ceremonial magikal
rituals, and of course using the "traditional" method of lectureing.
	As the initiated advanced, he was confereed Degrees, which stated to
the rest of the Brotherhood, his standing.

	The present day order in California -AMORC- have its distinctive way of
spreading knowledge. It is done by means of mailed written lessons called 
_nomographs_ that contains the theory and exercises to be learned and performed.
Degrees are also granted as you progress along the path. Secrecy is no longer
an issue in the Californian version of the order and anyone interested may join.
	There is still a mistery surounding the whereabouts of the original 
order, as it sometimes looked as it had never existed; but facts and history
itself prove it did. Its theorized that The Order of the Rossy Cross is still
active, interwined with the highest level inner circles of other Brotherhoods.




And so now .8 is more or less complete.

								- JSR -

re .8 .11

Thanks for the history. Is AMORC an acronym for something?
Jay

RE: .8
    
    Could you point me to these recent sources which indicate a "real"
    Rosecrucian order.  The reading I have done all agrees that there is no
    known *exoteric* (the opposite of esoteric, i.e., secret) evidence
    for such an organization.  Certainly the original documents you
    mentioned were full of contradictions and non-existent supposedly
    public events and places.  The founder of the order was identified
    in them as C.R.C.  The name Christian Rosencreutz (spelled various
    ways) didn't appear (publicly at least) until much later.
    
    Again the sources I have read indicates that there is a great deal
    of scholarly dispute about the author(s) of those original tracts.
    
    For many years the Roscrucian order had a very bad name in occultist
    circles, most considered it a fraud which gave secret societies
    and occultism a bad name.  This was principaly because of the apparent
    failure of the supposed order to carry through on the dramatic programs
    announced in those early tracts, as well as the religious intollerance
    evidenced in them.  Among some occultists it is still so considered.
    
    I should point out that there is a long tradition in occultism to
    tap into the power of names by associating books, organisations
    etc., with names which have gained psychic power by one means or
    another.  The historical existance or lack of it of the Rosecrucian
    Order does not really effect say yea or nea to any real occult,
    mystical or spiritual insight which might be imparted by a modern
    organization claiming descent from it.
    
    					Topher

    I visited the museum in San Jose quite a few times when I lived
    there.  The garden and surrounding grounds are *Definitely* Egyptian
    in nature.  The entrance to the museum has two concrete lions at
    the foot of the steps which lead to two immense gold colored doors.
    Inside the museum are Egyptian artifacts that include mummies, jewelry,
    pottery, sarcophagi (is that the correct plural?) and other withered
    fetal looking things.  One of the interesting places was a 'burial
    chamber' which was replicated.  There are also lots of hieroglyphics
    re-created on the walls of the chamber.  The tour was interesting,
    but there were quite a few buildings that were off limits to the
    general public.  There were rumors of them being a cult and sacrifices
    held in the off limit areas during full moons.  I've always thought
    they were kind of a hybrid of ancient Egyptians and Inca/Aztec Indians.
    BTW, the tour was $3 for my kids and $5 for me....a little steep
    in light of what was inside.

    < A FRIEND >
    
    Aticipating questions which may be asked by the participants of
    this conference, I wish to announce that there is but one universal
    Rosicrucian Order existing in the world today, united in its various
    jurisdictions, and having one Supreme Counsil in accordance with
    the original plan of the ancient Rosicrucian manifestoes.
    The Rosicrucian Order is not a religious or sectarian society.
    
    This international organization retains the ancient traditions,
    teachings, principles, and practical helpfulness of the Brotherhood
    as founded centuries ago.
    It is known as the "ANCIENT MYSTICAL ORDER ROSAE CRUCIS" which name,
    for popular use, is abbreviated into "AMORC".
    The headquarters of the Worlwide Jurisdiction (The Americas,Australasia
    Europe, Africa, and Asia) are located at San Jose, California.
    
    Those interested in knowing more of the history and presentday hjelpful
    offerings of the Rosicrusians may have a FREE copy of the book entitled
    THE MASTERY OF LIFE, by sending a definite request to:
    SCRIBE I.P.T., Rsicrusian Park, San Jose, California 95191.
    
                I will take part as we go along, or I could also just
    be a one time participant.
                            You know what I mean.
    
    from """SAN JOSE CA.""" your always friend, here there and everywhere.
    
                                               GERARDO.

RE.12 AMORC
    
See re.15
            

RE.13 --Details please--

My pleasure...

	The Magical Mason	- By R.A. Gilbert; Forgotten Hermetic Writings
			of William Wynn Wescott, physician and magus. Of parti-
			cular interest would be Part one: Rosicrucian, chapters
			1. Christian Rosenkreuz and the Rosicrucians, 2. Data
			of the history of the Rosicrucians and chapter 3. The
			Rosicrucians, Past and Present, at Home and Abroad.

	The Directory of Posibilities - By Colin Wilson and John Grant; A
			collection of mystical and paranormal phenomena events,
			people, and theories. Part one: Mythology and the
			Ancient World, chapter on Mystery of Rennes-Le-Chateau,
			and on Part five, chapter on Rosicrucians.

	The Occult		- By Colin Wilson; A history of occult phenome-
			na, Chapter on Adepts and Impostors.

	The True and Invisible
	Rosicrucian Order	- By Paul Foster Case; a thorough presentation
			of the Rosicrucian system of Initiation. Part one: The
			Rosicrucian Allegory - a carefull examination and inter-
			pretation of the principal Rosicrucian manifestoes,"The
			Fama Fraternitatis" and "Confessio Fraternitatis". It
			contains the full English Translation of both documents.

	

		It is true that some "occult" writings say that the original
	documents are full of contratictions etc. But when reading them,you
	will find that it isn't true; it just happens that if the reader reads 
	with the wrong glasses, he will come to the wrong conclusions.
		As of the fact that Rosicrucianism acquired a bad name in some
	occultist circles, well there is more than what meets the eye in this
	one...
		The manifestoes appeared in a time of change. The Reformation
	was sweping the western land with change; particulary of the religious
	kind. The manifestoes contained ideas, described events, that even for
	the most open-minded learned people of the time was difficult to accept
	and most less, understand. This includes the occultists of the epoch,
	at least the" publicly" known ones. You see, who were this people, that
	dared to say such things in public, endangering our own existence ?
		That was more or less the state of mind reigning among those,
	who had spent most of their lifetime devoted to acquiring occult
	knowledge, and who had to struggle to gain credibility among the so
	called learned men from the society. But mostly, those really enraged
	were the ones belonging to the clergy; Catholisism had just passed thru
	the gratest storm off all times; so who are these who proclaim some
	kind of superior knowledge ? as if it were not enough with what we had 
	already pass thru !! (We must remeber that some of the greatest occul-
	tists writers were, in one way or the other, closely related to the
	church)
		So this (and the fact that several of the most respected figur-
	es of the time also requested membership but were never contacted) crea
	ted a flood of "bad publicity" that eventually stood above of that of 
	those who rightfully recognized value in the Brotherhood of the 
	Rosicross.
		
				************


		During the course of my life, I've met and know several people
	who belong the Rosicrucian Brotherhood of California. One thing I say,
	the great majority of the ones I've meet are thru seekers of light, who
	have found in the above mentioned, a system that works for them. (I am
	not endorsing the institution, just stating my personal opinion)
		None of them claimed to have occult powers; but I have seen 
	the gradual transformation (for the better, in my judgement) of the
	ones I knew before and after they became members.





			- " As above, so below; as below, so above. " -
							The Kybalion

								- JSR -

    RE: .13
    
    Another work that deals with this is "Holy Blood, Holy Grail." 
    
    There are three authors whose names escape me, but I'm pretty sure
    one was Henry Lincoln. It's out in paper-back.
    
    Although the evidence for it's basic premise is tenuous, it does
    go into detail on secret societies.
    
    The authors claim that a secret society, the Priory de Sion, was
    formed by a group of crusaders after the conquest of Jeruselem.
    Sion is reputed to have spawned numerous other societies down through
    the ages including the Knights Templer, Masons, and Rosecrucians.
    It's past grand masters are said to have included Leonardo DiVinci,
    Sir Isaac Newton and Victor Hugo among others.
    

    Worth a look if this type of thing interests you.
    
    

    According to mom (Rosicrucian for 55 years!) the following account
    from "The New Encyclopaedia Britannica" is the most accurate:
    
    	"Others, however, view 16th- and 17th- century developments
    	 as simply a revival of the order and contend that Rosicrucian
         doctrines not only flourished in ancient Egypt but were espoused
         by such outstanding figures as Plato, Jesus, Philo of Alexandria,
         Plotinus, and others."
    
    
    BTW  The childhood incident I wrote of earlier occured in San Jose
         on the Grounds of the AMORC.
         

     Three things, a question and a couple of observations:

     1.  Okay,  after  reading  all  this  I  still  don't  know;  are  the
         Rosicrucians a "secret" society or not?

     2.  "Secret" societies, whether or not the Rosicrucians fall into this
         category, are natural victims of prejudice and persecution.  There
         are lots of reasons for this; paranoia or even jealously  are  two
         that  come to mind.  The real tragedy is when groups are _accused_
         of being "secret" because it's easier than taking the time to find
         out  and  understand  them; Jews, surprisingly, have been made the
         victims of this by one religious group that should have known them
         very  well  indeed  - Christians.  It's very sad to reflect on the
         results of this kind mindlessness.

     3.  It seems to me that a secret society in  a  democracy  presents  a
         real paradox; if all men are equal, what need is there of secrets,
         but if all men are free, aren't they free to keep secrets  with  a
         select  few?   I  suspect  this  is  too deep for Oliver North and
         company.


     Alvin