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Conference hydra::dejavu

Title:Psychic Phenomena
Notice:Please read note 1.0-1.* before writing
Moderator:JARETH::PAINTER
Created:Wed Jan 22 1986
Last Modified:Tue May 27 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2143
Total number of notes:41773

413.0. "programs,runes,i ching" by AMULET::STOLOS () Fri Jul 17 1987 10:50

    hello i have a question to ask this conference, last week my
    sister had shown me alittle about how she reads runes.
    my question is is it important that you choose a stone for its
    symbol or that you picked a picture of a stone from a monitor
    screen, have people ever played with computer programs that
    provide random posibilities...i know that random is a loaded
    word, i'm curosity if people haven't tryed this for runes or
    i ching...
    pete
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413.1PRANCR::TIMPSONReligion! Just say no.Fri Jul 17 1987 15:216
    Note 45 is a discussion of Runes and note 81 is on the I Ching
    
    For future reference doing a Dir/title="<string>" will find topic
    information.
    
    Steve
413.2I tried an I ching program....SSDEVO::ACKLEYNo final answers hereFri Jul 17 1987 16:1921
    	I once wrote a Fortran program to generate I Ching readings.
    It read in a sentence (related to the question asked) then used
    the ascii code of the letters in the sentence for a "seed" number
    for random number generation.   It was quite a hassle typing in
    the hexagrams, and I don't believe I ever finished that.  Usually
    I just looked up the hexagram generated in the book (Wilhelm-Baynes
    translation).
    	I was not really very satisfied with the results of this
    method.   I usually use the three coins method to select the
    hexagram, and I still like that better.
	The computer access was so easy, that it became too easy
    to ask trivial or ill-formulated questions.   Also the method
    I used to generate the seed, depended on the consciously
    generated phrase typed in, whereas the coins or yarrow stalks,
    it seems to me, allow the unconscious (tao?) more access to 
    the outcome.
    	So, in my experience, computerizing oracles buys you nothing
    but maybe a new sort of video game.   It seemed to trivialize
    what might otherwise be a rather profound mystical process.

    Alan.
413.4Computerized I Ching.PBSVAX::COOPERTopher CooperMon Jul 20 1987 18:3328
    I've seen several versions of the I Ching on computers, usually
    seeding the random number generator from the system clock.  Many
    people seem to find it as meaningful as the "real" one.  Its clear
    that trivialization is a problem, but it is anyway.  I suspect that
    when the coins were first introduced the traditionalists (who used
    yarrow stalks) made the same complaint.  It may be that when the
    I Ching was codified and actually written down, and the yarrow stalks
    started to be used with it (whether at the same time, before or
    after is, I believe, unknown) the traditionalists (who would crack
    tortoise shells with a hot "poker" and read on the basis of a memorized
    oral tradition) made the same complaint also.
    
    Convenience should not be avoided simply to make life difficult.
    As long as you avoid trivializing its use, why not keep things simple?
    
    Neither the coins nor the yarrow stalks produce a "uniform"
    distribution (i.e., all four types of line equally likely) and so,
    if you are writing a program for the I Ching you shouldn't simply
    generate pseudo-random numbers, but should try to simulate one of
    these two random processes.  (I'm sure that the coins are not uniform,
    since I remember the details of using them; I'm less sure about
    the yarrow stalks, but as I remember it, its not uniform either).
    
    One of the programs I've seen is available under TOPS-20, the other
    is one of the common games available for UNIX.
    
    					Topher