Conference hydra::dejavu

    "... like an "A" (440 cps) stimulating brainwaves that are close
    to the same frequency".
    
    Could be, but keep in mind that all *known* brainwaves are much
    lower in frequency -- subsonic actually.  Furthermore, the "frequency"
    itself doesn't seem to get past the inner ear -- it becomes
    (simplifying grossly) a more or less steady "signal" on the specific
    nerves representing that frequency -- that's what reaches the brain.
    
    If particular frequencies have particular effects, I would bet on
    a more subtle mechanism than simple "transference" into brain waves.
    
    				Topher

    	The book "Superlearning", (I don't remember the author's name)
    goes into a technique to enhance learning using background music
    of a certain rhythm.   Baroque music was said to work best, with
    a 60 beats per minute rhythm.    Here the tonal frequencies
    didn't appear to be too important, as long as the music was
    soothing.    The rhythm of the music appeared to be the most
    important factor.     With this learning technique, the music
    plays in the background while a teacher delivers a phrase to
    be remembered, with one phrase each 8 beats.
    
    	alan.
    

    
    	Tones or pitch of a sound may not have much effect, but the
    rythm certainly does. As was mentioned in a previous reply, the
    so called "brainwaves" are subharmonic in frequency. Therefore,
    the brain will respond to rythmic inputs that are in-phase with
    "it". Rocking is one example...
    
    	Another is the rythm set up between the preacher and the
    congregation of "the old southern Baptist church". There is a
    definate rythm when the preacher says his line, the people answer
    "A-MEN", the preacher speaks again, the congregation answers
    "GLORY-BE", and the cycle continues. Note that music was also a
    big part of these celebrations. These folks *knew* how to get ya
    goin and into it deeply.
    
    	JJJ

	I understand that simple transference couldn't work,
	I had forgotten the frequency range of brainwaves is
	subaudible.

	I had read something once (where escapes me) that talked
	about the "exalted" state that was reached during the
	rhythmic praying and singing of certain Jewish Rabbis.
	It was my understanding that the rhythms were extremely
	important.

	Does anyone have an idea what would work best, or a starting
	point from which to experiment?  I have a programmable
	synthesizer and I want to make some test tapes to experiment
	with.

						-- Mike

                                       
    (From eastern Massachusetts) I was watching a talk show a few months
    ago - probably 'Good Day' - and on the show were 3 people who's bodies
    were taken over by 'aliens' to the extent that the original people
    in the bodies no longer existed.
                  
    Although they spoke English to the host, their primary language of 
    communication consisted of tones.  After they were done speaking 
    with the host, they gave the audience a sample of their tonal 
    language.  Pretty amazing!  They were able to produce sounds that 
    reminded me of being in a church with the organ playing.  It was 
    quite soothing actually.
    
    The people did mention before their demonstration that if there
    were people out there who did not want to be influenced by the tones
    that they should turn off their set.  I didn't perceive any hidden
    messages myself, but who knows, perhaps someone else did - and maybe
    even I did but just didn't realize it.
    
    Cindy

    Alpha brainwaves range from 5 to 8 cycles per second.. not quite
    subsonic, kind of a 'putputput' sound.. however, both the tonal
    frequencies and rhythmic frequencies could be multiple of this
    frequency range.    
    
    I've noticed that a very prevalent tempo for soft rock music is 
    72 bpm. 8cps * 9 = 72... heartbeat speed.
    
    karl 

    >Alpha brainwaves range from 5 to 8 cycles per second.. not quite
    >subsonic, kind of a 'putputput' sound.. however, both the tonal
    >frequencies and rhythmic frequencies could be multiple of this
    >frequency range.    
    
	I think, as a starting point, I'll try tonal structures
	that are multiples of 5 to 8 cps apart... this should cause
	a "beat frequency" that are multiples of the desired wavelength.
	This frequency, even if it is subsonic, should be picked up
	by the senses... discounting transference, there might be some
	effect that I can notice.

	Once I get a tonal sequence that seems to have some positive
	effects, I'll play around with the rhythms.

    Alpha waves are between 7-14 cps.  Theta are 3-7 cps.  The cassette
    I have has Alpha in the background starting at around 12 cps then
    dropping to 7 or 8 cps.  Over the top of that is a sound like a
    heartbeat of starting at 70 bpm (heartrate) dropping to 55 or 60
    bpm.  The tape goes for about 20 minutes.  The first 5-10 minutes
    are top speed, then it drops down to the slower.  You will find
    your heart rate and brain waves drop to match.
    
    I might add that since meditation my heartrate has dropped from
    72 (never been below) to 64 bpm this is every day.  I am trying
    to get it below 60 bpm.
    
    There is also a theta tape available that has a beep of 2-6 cps.
    It is a distinct beep but I don't like it as much as the alpha waves.
    
    I might add, if you get to the stage where you meditate regularly,
    you shouldn't need any stimulant.  I often dash off to the loo (toilet)
    to get through some project or to handle a problem I have or to
    send some friend some help.  I can even drop to alpha whilst driving
    or walking and talking.  Check around there are tapes available.
    
    ....dale

    Dale, can you post the names of those tapes and of the supplier?
    (..People only go to the loo in England so we may be out of luck
    anyway_:-)   
    The Monroe Institute does a lot of research on what they call
    hemi-sync.  Its basically using sound through headphones to get
    the left and right halfs of the brain to work together.  Its a very
    good way to learn self-hypnosis or meditation.  Bob Monroe wrote
    Journey Out Of Body about astral projection.

    A "pure" tone (i.e., a sine wave) will not be heard if it is below
    about 30 hertz (what used to be called cycles per second).  If it
    is loud enough it may be felt, and may even rythmically "shake"
    up the body causing physical effects.  A non-subsonic sound repeated
    or modified at lower than 30 hertz will of course be heard, possibly
    as a put-put-put sound.  If it is repeated much faster than this
    then it will be heard as a, possibly rough, continuous sound.  A
    non-pure tone (e.g., a square wave) may be heard because it can
    have harmonic components above 30 hertz -- but what will be heard
    is those harmonics not the fundamental frequency.  If you filter
    out everything below 30hz it will sound identical.
    
    					Topher

	I *do* meditate regularly... about an hour a day... and have
	for a few years.  It's "my personal time" that I take every
	evening at about the same time.  I'm just interested in pushing
	my limits and playing with the tones... my roommate just started
	meditating so I have a willing subject who has not had the 
	experience.  We started talking about meditative states and
	psychological changes and we thought that we would try an 
	experiment.  Rich (the "victim") is gathering information from 
	libraries, and I thought I would get some feedback from this 
	conference while I was working on the synthesizer program.

	I felt that, since I have been working on myself for so long, that
	the tapes might not make much difference to me... but I'm going
	to try them anyway.

    
    	I like "John Klemmer" as music for meditation...it's really
    out there -
    
    	Joe Jas
    

   re: 8
    
    The balance of 7 is always there - 7-14, 3 1/2-7 etc.
    
    re: 10
    
    I am sorry, I received both tapes when I did an Alpha and Theta
    course.  I know they are available, but not sure where.  You could
    check with somebody that has done the Alpha Awareness course, my
    instructor came out from Canada, but they are throughout the States.
    The tapes are quite well known  - to the known!!
    
    re: 12
    
    I apologise if I came on so strong.  It wasn't meant to be so
    assertive.  Scorpio/Leo/Cancer tends to make me a little off balance.
    (those in movies.notes know this well in my answers)
    
    Let me try again - as you are so advanced, I would not imagaine
    you would gain anything, but your friend would - with the waves
    slowing gradually you also slow down.  Two people that have shared
    many, many lives with me are able to communicate anything with each
    other together, apart, the most incredible things happen.  
    
    So if you are thereabouts, my feeling is it will only be background
    material.  But do try to get a copy of the tapes.  I know they are
    available.  I think Silva has a theta tape available, check to see
    if it is the beep beep theta one.
    
    ....dale

	Re .14

	No offense was taken, Dale, I should have been more explicit
	in my base note.

	Currently, I find that I can "drop out" after about 30-45 seconds
	and concentrate on my heartbeat... not as a sound but as a feeling.
	After about 3-5 minutes of this (less if I'm relaxed) the room 
	literally "disappears" from sight... even though my eyes remain
	open unless I deliberately close them.  I don't need a quiet room,
	but I don't want to be disturbed so I usually burn incense and
	put Kitaro on the CD as a signal that I'm "not home".

	I'm going to look for John Klemmer and Patrick O'Hearn at my local
	metaphysical bookstore... they have a great selection of tapes.

	There is a local musician that does some neat things by mixing
	music with whale and dolphin sounds.  I've heard some of it, and
	it sounds great.  He usually shows up at the art and wine festivals
	that are so prevalent out here during the summer.  I'm going to
	get some tapes when I see him next.  If anyone is interested, let
	me know.

						-- Mike

    
    This seemed like a good spot for this ... from Ruth Montgomery's
    "Threshold to Tomorrow," one of her books on *Walk-Ins*.  Bjorn
    Ortenheim (reportedly a Walk-in [Einstein]) sent her the following
    with a tape of Bach's Toccata und Fugue in F Major on organ:
    (BTW I've tried it, and it's quite an experience)
    
    "You probably know that the Great Pyramid of Cheops is a huge
    mathematical formula telling most of the scientific secrets from
    the lost civilizations of Atlantis and Lemuria, and even of the
    Mayans.  If you meditate on a picture of the Great Pyramid, while
    listening to this recording of Bach's, you may, after a few times,
    see how the Great Pyramid was built.  This music from Bach contains
    the same methematical vibration-formula that was used when building
    the pyramid.  The vibration of evry tone multiplied through the
    harmonies in this particular Bach music corresponds with all the
    methematical measurements in the Great Pyramid.  A computer could
    easily prove this.  If a computer separated the frequencies of every
    tone in this music and turned these frequencies into numbers, the
    computer would reveal a perfect replica of the mathematical pattern
    that shapes the Great Pyramid."
    
    
    If nothing else, the music is a wonder in itself.
    
    C.
    

RE: .17


    Oh brother.  I haven't read so much gobbledygook since I entered that
    excerpt from the foot reflexology manual.  The part about the computer
    was particularly humorous. 


    John M. 

    Are you still into feet John?_:-)

    
    Seems like a great place to advertise an upcoming concert:
    
    	The Nashoba Valley Chorale, based in Groton, Mass. is performing
    	the following works:
    
    		Respighi - Laud To The Nativity
    		Yeakle   - Sir Christemas
    		Lockwood - Carol Fantasy
    		Rutter   - Dancing Day
    
    	Saturday, Dec. 12th at 8:00 PM - Christ Church, Fitchburg, Mass.
    	Sunday, Dec. 13th at 3:00 PM - Union Congregational Church,
                                       Groton, Mass.
                                                                        
        Tickets:   $7.00 Adult, $3.00 Student and Senior Citizens
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    We performed the 'Magnificat' last winter - beautiful piece.
    
    The Chorale is a non-profit organization and all are welcome to
    sing - there are no auditions required.  Rehearsals are once per
    week, 3 hours per night and we perform once in the winter and once
    in the spring.  The group has been in existence for 12 years now. 
    
    Contact me for further information (I'm the treasurer and also a
    first soprano in the group).
    
    Cindy

    I have a copy of Music Works running on my Mac at home, one of the
    songs available within the repitore is Tocatta and Fugue.
    
    One of the windows in the software shows an "overview" of the score
    as it plays.  The pattern shown is *extremely* symetrical and is
    patterned almost like saw tooth waves.  I'd love to show you what
    it looks like, but alas, there's no bit-mapped graphics available.
    :-(
    
    Dave

    I'm surprised no one's mentioned Paul Horn's albums (Inside I, Inside
    II).  He uses human voice and flute inside the great pyramid of
    cheops, inside the taj mahal, and probably several other place.s
     The echoes are great, because he winds up playing a duet with himself
    most of the time.  VERY relaxing.  Also good to relax to:  Keith
    Jarrett's Arbour Zena.
    
    -Jody
    

lets talk about something almost unknown
about music and its amazing role
its rhythm and harmonious flow , to the young and to the old
like magic , can't touch , or even hold
a bright tone hovering over the soul 
asking permission to descend and finally fall 
to embrace and gently behold
like a butterfly, jumping from a rose to a rose
swiftly, dancing in delight around to its final goal
or a sad tone , in rage suspended and feeling lost and alone
inside a little child, with the wish that it was never born
holding its breath , fighting in sorrow and remorse
and the soul will finally fall , for it can take no more
and the memory rope holding it all
shutters in one final and tremendous roar
so why do you ask for more?
more music to save you from it all
to escape the heavy crush of what we call the modern world
    
    that is enough rammbling for now, back to doing my homeowork ;-(
    later folks !
    
/Nasser
I spelled checked
    

    Because the music is all there is...
    the sound of the atoms dancing with themselves
    the faint light strains of the stars orbiting in the sky
    the music of the spheres plays within us all
    and we dance forever to the sounds
    until exhausted we drift to the rhythm
    searching always for the singer... for the song.. that we are