| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 271.1 | Three of the seven. | NEXUS::MORGAN | Walk in Balance... | Sun Dec 28 1986 21:36 | 112 |
| Planes and Sub-planes from lowest to highest, from most dense to least dense. I
understand that there are four planes above these three, but I don't have the
information presently for those planes. Anyway here is some basic info which
can be chewed upon and tossed out if needed.
/ Solid
| Liquid
| Gaseous
Physical < Etheric: etheric
| super etheric
| atomic *I'm not sure of the definitions.
\ sub-atomic * " " " " " "
This is the physical world as we know it. When the physical material
is used up the first transition occurs. Be here now! B^)
/ A form of Dantean Hell *darkness filled with horrors.
| Physical surface *those tied to earthly ways.
| Sky/heaven *People here create realities according,
Astral < Sky/heaven *to preprogrammed notions/religions.
Described in reference| Beyond sky *loss of some materialistic ways,
to physical earth for | Beyond sky *more exploration of the nature of light.
ease of description. \ Loss of form *very spiritually minded prepare for
*next stage. Second transition.
The astral planes are where we create our next form of existence. It is
possible that we could think of the astral planes as a stepping stone
from here (physical) to the mental planes. During our time on the
astral plane we gradually lose our desire for houses, friends, cities,
societies, governments and begin to explore different modes of
existence. When the astral material is used up the second transition
should come peacefully as if one were to fall asleep and wake up in
another dimension. Be there then! B^)
Bob Monroe describes two experiences in the astral plane that seem, at
least to me, to shed some light on aspects of the astral plane. In the
first encounter Bob and a friend find an inhabited area outside the
physical plane. Bob and friend are seen by a woman who takes them to
the pastor of the community to discuss how they got there and where
they are from. As the conversations go on Bob finds out that this is a
Christian community and the pastor and his flock are awaiting
something, probably the end. Bob noticed that some people had already
left the community but the remnant didn't know where they went. They
just went off and never came back. All indications were that this was
a normal community with buildings, houses and clotheslines. The second
encounter was with a group of friends that Bob had made from before.
One of the individuals was apparently female. This female was very
adjusted and was described as ready to 'graduate'. Bob was not told
what she was graduating too but it seemed to be understood that she was
going to progress onto something else. This encounter took place
in an alternate physical reality event some 3,000 years in the future.
/ After one experiences the second transition, one
Causal | has experienced physical involvement, astral dis-
Mental | enthrallment from attachment; one is able to dwell
Devachan < impersonally in the permanent meaning of each experience
Shining Land | as well as their ramifications. A time or harvesting
| and recapitulation. The culminating period of an
\ incarnation.
Some will experience Devachan as "Bliss". Others having paved the road
to heaven/Shining Land with their mental outlook and spiritual content
will experience it differently. Each of us create, while on earth, our
spheres in heaven. It seems that one must plan their path to and
through Devachan. No one leaps beyond themselves mentally either here
on earth or there in Devachan. One grows in their ability to perceive
and comprehend within the limits of their evolved abilities. In
Devachan one enters into the mental level that corresponds precisely to
the stage of their mental evolution and proceeds from there.
Supposedly Devachan is a universal inheritance of all. The Shining
Land is as necessary to the Soul as sleep is to physical man. Still,
the texts indicate that there are some exceptions to the rule. For
those who want to be trapped in the hells of their choice any number of
hells can be conjured by them. I don't know why an entity would want
to be trapped in such a place but maybe there is a need to 'burn' off
something 'bad'. Perhaps these hell bound souls forget how to extract
themselves from their own hells and are trapped. On the other side of
the coin there may be individuals that opt for a quick series of lives
in which to accomplish some work. Again these individuals may be graced
with the knowledge of how to reincarnate quickly.
"Normal reincarnation is life's swift method for the evolution of
consciousness. To perceive this clearly, we have only to imagine the
predicament of one who lived out the entire span of his incarnation on
earth, say lasting a thousand years, in the physical body alone! His
consciousness would become stultified again and again in habitual
patterns of sluggish inertia. These would alternate with storms of
furious enthrallments, that would sink again in age long ennui and
weariness. His chances of spiritual progress would be blocked on every
side by memories, and the burdensome awareness of limitations endured
in physical life. Added to this, there would be unlimited
opportunities to slip into evil tendencies and indulgences that,
through karmic effects, could bar his progress for further ages to
come." [Ibid. page 116]
"Compare this with the truly wondrous mechanism of life, death, and
reincarnation, that at the conclusion of a few decades of embodiment in
physical form, life alternates, with the period of centuries required
to slough away limitations, and evil tendencies. Thus, the very memory
is closed off, and the Self is recharged with good influences, leaving
only the whisper of conscience to guide one through a new life, freshly
reborn. Contemplating this, one can only realize that if there be a
God whose beneficent and ever-gentle hand is guiding his nurslings, it
is here displayed ceaselessly with the manifold demonstrations that
occur in the great rhythms of reincarnation." [Ibid. page 117]
Now the question remains, "Mikie, do you really believe all that?"
Well, I don't know. I suppose it is as good a map as any. B^)
|
| 271.2 | Note 8.14 | NEXUS::MORGAN | Walk in Balance... | Sun Dec 28 1986 21:41 | 3 |
| Please refer also to note 8.14.
Mikie?
|
| 271.4 | the soul and its existance | BAXTA::PUSHARD_MIKE | | Tue Dec 30 1986 04:52 | 14 |
| Our soul is a changing entity according to its own choices and
desires.It may be positive or negative and will experience the results
of its choices.As it proceeds onward through existance it chooses
its road to travel.
It can be lead astray and that is where Satan comes in.It can
also be lead to greater and better existances and that is where
GOD comes in.For those who do evil and retard their progression
a definate Hell exists until they change enough for the better to
get themselves out.
One great gift we have is free will,but,we are subject to laws
and will experience the results of our use of free will according
to those laws.
MIKE
|
| 271.5 | Could we visit... | NEXUS::MORGAN | Walk in Balance... | Wed Dec 31 1986 19:45 | 6 |
| Since it seems that the astral plane is where we find most of our
heavens and hells could we say that it is possible to flit between
heavens. That is, could we visit the Buddhist Nirvana, Christian
Heaven and Norse Valhalla on the astral plane? What a party!
Mikie?
|
| 271.6 | Wanna' visit heaven?? | NEXUS::MORGAN | Heaven's died and gone to Hell | Sun Feb 01 1987 22:23 | 27 |
| Well I guess that no one has thought of the possibility of traveling
between the different heavens. I occured to me about a year or so ago.
Looking at the differences in all the different and separate views of
the Cosmos and wondering how those folks got that view I came to the
conclusion that they were right. From here is was an easy step from
believing that all the different perspectives of heaven and hell were
real to thinking that there must be a way to pick your heaven and hell.
Perhaps the heavens and hells are little islands in the astral plane.
And on these islands are those people who have found their way there or
made their way there by agreement. I toyed with this by writing
a story about an OOBE out into the astral plane, crossing the void,
meeting the people in the Christian heaven, climbing the Tree of
Life and finding no star on top of the Tree. Afterward I depart
the island and cross the void to another island and another heaven.
Any comments?
+-----------------------------------------------------+
| Mike Morgan |
| NEXUS::MORGAN Colorado Springs |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
| "We never learn but we know too well that, |
| Heaven's died and gone to Hell!" |
| Berlin |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
|
| 271.7 | How can you know Heaven if you don't visit Hell? | ORION::HERBERT | Walk me out in the morning dew... | Thu Apr 02 1987 12:54 | 58 |
| Mikie?
Re:
> Since it seems that the astral plane is where we find most of our
> heavens and hells could we say that it is possible to flit between
> heavens. That is, could we visit the Buddhist Nirvana, Christian
> Heaven and Norse Valhalla on the astral plane? What a party!
I would think one could. I also wonder though, about the desire for
"experiences". Wouldn't it be very tempting to not only take a peek at
various heavens, but to peek at various hells? Suppose you're just
floating along, minding your own business, and you hear, or catch sight
of, some wild hell going on. If we're as curious in that form, as we
are on this Earth, we might take a glance at that hell...and perhaps in
doing that, we could very quickly be sucked into something because of
our own fears.
I know what I want (usually)...and that is peace and happiness. However,
I do find a certain fascination with scaring myself on occassion. I
don't know why, but I must be fascinated by it to do it so well and so
overwhelmingly. I think that's part of one's power. To create anything
for onesself. And because of our curiosity for new experiences, we can
get ourselves into all kinds of *stuff*.
I'm not sure if this means it's best to become firm on one particular
path...and to be dedicated to that path so as to not be swayed by the
curiosity tendencies... - OR - if it's best for us to learn to enjoy all
experiences so nothing bothers us. ???? Could that even be possible?
In the book, "Rebirthing - The Science of Enjoying All of Your Life",
I was first introduced to the concept of learning to enjoy everything.
I must say it has worked very well at improving my enjoyment of my life
because some of the things that used to drive me crazy with anger, are
now more humorous to me. HOWEVER, as I learned how to enjoy those
little things, I'm now faced with BIG, mean, ugly things that seem to
be taunting me to learn to enjoy them. ;^)
In looking at myself, I see a constant fascination with experiences. I'm
fairly sure I control these things, but I don't trust myself in what I
will create! That's why I try to be careful with psychic toys...I view
myself as a small child with too much curiosity and not enough wisdom to
know how to handle my own ability.
So...based on these feelings, I wonder about your suggestion of looking
into other heavens...and whether or not we would look into other hells
as well. Maybe we could only get the answer if people are willing to be
really honest about their curiosity in all experiences?
Perhaps this is why people dedicate themselves to a religion or belief...
as a way of being more controlled about their path. Seems to me this is
limiting, but who knows? Could leaving myself "open" with no particular
belief system mean that I'm more likely to "float" into "terrible" places
(as well as "wonderful" places)? Hmmm. I guess I better find a belief
pronto, or start working faster on enjoying EVERYTHING! ;^)
(Wow...this is getting deep.) Any comments?
Jerri
|
| 271.8 | One-way ticket to ... | ERASER::KALLIS | Hallowe'en should be legal holiday | Thu Apr 02 1987 13:54 | 11 |
| Re .last couple:
Well, the traditional Christian Hell is a place _from which there
is no escape_. Indeed, in _The Divine Comedy_, Dante has inscribed
over the Gate of Hell "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."
Thus, "visiting" that particular Hell might prove to be a _looooooong_
trip.
Steve Kallis, Jr.
|
| 271.9 | What you resist persists | ORION::HERBERT | Walk me out in the morning dew... | Thu Apr 02 1987 14:23 | 20 |
| Re: .-1
Or perhaps it's not that you never get out, but that you'll be stuck
there until you're wise enough in *that* situation to know how to
choose out of it. And yes, that could take a loooooong time...just
like the amount of time our current attachment to this reality seems
to take.
By the way, I'd just like to clarify that when I said (in .7) that
I'd like to learn to enjoy everything...that doesn't necessarily
mean I'd want to experience everything. I feel that resistance
to things only makes them hang around longer. Acceptance frees
you up to move on to something else. So by saying "enjoy everything",
I am defining that as acceptance of everything. I only use the
word "enjoy" because people can relate it to not enjoying things.
Not everyone knows how to "accept"...but most people have a good
idea of how to "enjoy". [Communicating with words is a pain in
the neck sometimes.]
Jerri
|
| 271.10 | Bigger Bait? | NEXUS::MORGAN | Walk in Balance... | Sat Apr 04 1987 23:01 | 113 |
|
Reply to Jerri in .7;
What is the problem here? B^) When one begins to think that
one has the power to control their destiny they have to also
trust themselves. I believe that this also includes trusting
ones guiding purpose. I would agree that one has to be
careful of what they flit into. On another note, people have
seen a great light in their near death experiences. What if
that great light is a star? Will we be gobbled up in that
cosmic inferno? What soul could survive that?
Our root assumptions are in question here. Perhaps we should
trust our instincts and consign ourselves to our fates. I
guess we'll find out.
---
I know what I want (usually)...and that is peace and happiness. However,
I do find a certain fascination with scaring myself on occasion. I
don't know why, but I must be fascinated by it to do it so well and so
overwhelmingly. I think that's part of one's power. To create anything
for oneself. And because of our curiosity for new experiences, we can
get ourselves into all kinds of *stuff*.
---
Are you a "T" or "t" type? That's not fair is it? I think
we thrill ourselves with danger because we want to explore
new areas. Self stimulation. If we get our tails in a sling
because of this exploration we'll just have to get them out
won't we? The emphasis here is to learn. (And if we aren't
having fun we aren't doing it right?? B^)
---
I'm not sure if this means it's best to become firm on one particular
path...and to be dedicated to that path so as to not be swayed by the
curiosity tendencies... - OR - if it's best for us to learn to enjoy all
experiences so nothing bothers us. ???? Could that even be possible?
---
Yes! That's the ticket. By exposure to various experiences
in life I feel that we are better qualified to contend with
whatever may come after the transformation. In flitting over
to the Christian Heaven one should be able to enjoy the
happenings taking place there and not be owned by the
happenings. There is a level of rational detachment there
though and I'm not sure we have any rational capabilities in
that state.
---
In the book, "Rebirthing - The Science of Enjoying All of Your Life",
I was first introduced to the concept of learning to enjoy everything.
I must say it has worked very well at improving my enjoyment of my life
because some of the things that used to drive me crazy with anger, are
now more humorous to me. HOWEVER, as I learned how to enjoy those
little things, I'm now faced with BIG, mean, ugly things that seem to
be taunting me to learn to enjoy them. ;^)
---
The real challenge here is to know ones self. When the bait
is bigger the risk may be greater. That is a choice we will
all have to make many times in this life and afterward. Know
thyself.
---
In looking at myself, I see a constant fascination with experiences. I'm
fairly sure I control these things, but I don't trust myself in what I
will create! That's why I try to be careful with psychic toys...I view
myself as a small child with too much curiosity and not enough wisdom to
know how to handle my own ability.
---
This is wonderful. You'll grow to the point where you allow
yourself the latitude to create spontaneously. I would
enjoy the toys for now remembering that greater things exist.
---
So...based on these feelings, I wonder about your suggestion of looking
into other heavens...and whether or not we would look into other hells
as well. Maybe we could only get the answer if people are willing to be
really honest about their curiosity in all experiences?
---
In my shaministic voyaging I have seen other hells. What is
most common to these areas is that darkness, fear, filth,
ignorance and a pitiful lack of personal power dominate the
participants.
The most common attributes of the heavens is light, cleanness,
joy, some knowledge and some personal power. At least enough
knowledge and power to get there.
Presently I don't think any heaven or hell could contain an
entity with great personal power. Please don't confuse
heaven and hells with large energy vortexs, such as stars.
If I were to travel inside of a star I believe that the human
(?) energy field would be ripped apart.
---
Perhaps this is why people dedicate themselves to a religion or belief...
as a way of being more controlled about their path. Seems to me this is
limiting, but who knows? Could leaving myself "open" with no particular
belief system mean that I'm more likely to "float" into "terrible" places
(as well as "wonderful" places)? Hmmm. I guess I better find a belief
pronto, or start working faster on enjoying EVERYTHING! ;^)
---
It seems to me that people will do what is perceived as their
best interest. That's natural and nothing to fear. This
natural trait needs to be understood though. I would think
that ignorance and fear are what enslaves us, not leaving
ourselves open to whatever comes along.
Mikie?
|
| 271.11 | Exercise what? | NEXUS::MORGAN | Walk in Balance... | Sat Apr 04 1987 23:14 | 14 |
| Reply to .8;
Steve, What can I say in the face of tradition? B^)
Reply to .9;
Presently I seem to be discovering the philosophies of the ancient
shamans. This belief system, striped of its trickstery, seems to indicate
that one gains personal power in life and uses that personal power
during and after physical life. Perhaps one gains this power through
exercising their mystic link with nature. But then again, who know??
Mikie?
|
| 271.12 | Thinking of balances | ORION::HERBERT | Walk me out in the morning dew... | Mon Apr 13 1987 16:25 | 19 |
| RE: .10
I've been out of the notesfile for awhile, so I'm way behind in my
reading...
> What is the problem here? B^) When one begins to think that
one has the power to control their destiny they have to also
trust themselves. I believe that this also includes trusting
ones guiding purpose.
I was indulging in your concept of "visiting other heavens"...and
playing around with that idea. I wanted to point out that in that
reality where one thing might be possible, so might the opposite.
I was just playing around with that fantasy. It doesn't feel real
for me, personally.
Sorry if I was adding confusion.
Jerri
|
| 271.13 | No way to get to Nirvana by Astral travel | ZGOV05::JAMESLIAW | | Fri Mar 11 1988 01:37 | 23 |
| Heaven and Hell has been defined as mental states as well as
actual planes of existence in many belief and religious systems.
So in getting the experience(mental aspect), try doing some
meditation.
Ref 271.7, if u have read some zen and Tibetan Buddhist texts
esp, by Turtang Tulku, 'enjoying' whatever comes long
allows u to get into deeper things (I' m not there
yet though). Good and bad, heaven and hell has to be
transcended..
Ref 271.5, it would be fun to get to the Nirvana and then Christian
Heaven , however, I think we have to get the definition
of Nirvana right. It'ain't just astral travelling..
My first try, regards
James
|