Conference hydra::dejavu

    In a way, this is another way of nibbling at a problem that bothered
    Plato (or Sokrates; anyway, it was in Plato's dialogues).  He was
    speaking in metaphors.  He envisioned that there was a reality that
    we couldn't fully apprehend; that we were as men in a cave, looking
    not at _real_ reality, but at the equivalent of our shadows against
    the back wall of that cave.  Were we to go out of the cave, fully
    into the light, we'd be blinded: by looking at the shadows, we get
    a restricted, though operationally useful view of "reality."
    
    Now point: anyone who's used infrared film or an infrared viewer
    will note things look similar, but not identical to, what we see
    with normal vision.  Which is "real"?  Answer: both, depending upon
    your perspective.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

         noitamrofni ehT  .enoyreve tnereffid si ytilaeR  ?ytilaer si tahW
           ytilaer ehT  .niarb ruo yb dessecorp si pu kcip sesnes ruo taht
        eht dna ycarucca 'sesnes ruo sa etarucca sa ylno si tpecca ew taht
           si ytilaer ruO  .noitamrofni siht fo gnissecorp ruo fo ycarucca
       .hguorht tel sesnes ruo revetahw morf demrof ,niarb ruo ni egami na
       evig lliw esnes ew tahw ssecorp ro esnes ot ytiliba ruo ni walf ynA
        dluoc taht ytilaer etulosba na ereht sI  .ytilaer fo weiv dewalf a
         rewop gnissecorp hguone dna sesnes hguone dah eno fi deviecrep eb
        t'nod ew taht su dnuora si hcum woH  ?noitamrofni eht htiw laed ot
            ton s'ti esuaceb tuo nworht si ees od ew taht hcum woH  ?"ees"
         ni saw tahw yltcaxe yas ot elba saw I fi erus ton m'I  ?tnatropmi
       tahw wonk fi sa smees tI  .yrt a ti evig d'I derugif I tub ,daeh ym
       epoh I  .nwod deretaw smees ti ni ti epyt I nehw tub ,yas ot tnaw I
                naem I tahw no ni orez em pleh lliw siht ot sesnopser taht
    
                                                              evaD            
    

                                     ?kcab it gnikat uoy era rO  .boj dooG
    
    
    .rj ,sillaK evetS
    

    
    re 1.  after .2 & .3 getting serious again seems a little silly.
     nice work fella's - that was fun.
    
    A few thoughts on reality             
    
    Dave:  your note reminded me of Leadbeaters book on Aura's.  He
    draws from clairvoyant visions, which many others have supported,
    and sees humans as walking around in an egg shaped sphere.  Within
    that sphere is all our reference points, thoughts, beliefs, astral
    gargage, others 'stuff' which has leaked in and a whole mess of
    things.  Depending on how clear/conscious they are.  He talks of
    colors reflecting the emotional state of the being - I believe he
    also discusses the mental and causal impacts on this field as well.
          
    If, in fact, this is true, then one may look at individuals as walking
    around in their own, isolated cocoon....is that their reality? 
    and what happens when they go bump into a cocoon of a different
    electomagenetic pull or push? or one which is harmoneous?   Again
    it may depend on how conscious the individual is of what they are
    feeling, thinking and doing.
    
    Seth speaks of reality as being a function of our thoughts and
    projections. That we create our own reality based on our beliefs.
    What happens if our beliefs are different than our brothers or sisters?
    Ususally a communication problem and potential conflict.
    
    Neurolinguistic Programming talks of reality (i'm taking license
    here) partly as a communication function.  They say that people
    relate to their reality thur the senses of hearing, vision, feeling...
    and people will use words to tell you how to communicate with them.
    For example:  If someone's primary sense is vision, they may not
    pay as much attention to the auditory and kinistetic senses.  They
    will use words like 'I hear you, that sounds like etc'.  If an
    auditory type runs into a visual type the will not feel understood
    or understand the other - most likely.  The visual will paint pictures
    and also feel misunderstood.  Are these two different realities?
    
    I we all just need to help each other understand our reality and
    and do our best, thru many modes to understand theirs.  I'm not
    sure we don't all have more in common than it appears and we'll
    continue to learn as long as we're willing to keep talking and trying
    to understand others.  Dejavu's gone thru a little of that and some
    real nice things came out of it.
    
    Keep on truckin'
    
    Lora

    I entered the sdrawkcab note just to bring attention back to the
    original note.  I can't remember exactly which note I was reading,
    but someone said something about reality.  That word, reality, has
    always gotten me.  I've developed alot of ideas in my head, but
    they don't go into words easily, especially when typing.  I wish
    I had a little connector on my head so that I could dump out my
    thoughts as I think them.  It wouldn't make sense, but I could go
    back and edit.  As far as reality is concerned, I don't think that
    there is any one true reality.  Not that we can tell anyway.  Everyone
    sees things differently.  No one has the right answer. I do think
    some answers are righter than others though.  I feel that there
    isn't an end to what one can learn about reality.  There is no point
    when we can say we're done learning.  Well, this may still seem
    very simplistic, but I'm getting closer to what I mean.  I think
    that the next time I'm in a "run off at the mouth" mood, I'll try
    to sit down at a terminal.  I have to learn to just type and not analyze
    every word as I type.  Maybe then I can say what I mean. Oh, if
    you don't agree with anything that I've said, you're wrong :-).
    
    		Dave

    Re .6:
    
    I think Lora covered a lot of that in .5.
    
    The only one who could _fully_ understand reality would be an
    omniscient being.  The rest of us are like unto the blind men feeling
    various parts of an elephant's anatomy to get an idea of the beast.
    And then we build our models on that basis.
    
    First approximation: if it works for you _at all_, it's got some
    validity.
    
    Second approximation: if you change what you do and it works _better_,
    you're probably closer to "reality," but you still might be a long
    way off.
    
    Third approximation: Goto second approximation.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

What is reality?  Good question!  Everyone is going to have their own 
opinion, even if that means "no opinion".  To me, reality is just what
is "real to me" at the moment.  It's hard to describe something that 
changes so often.  I feel like I've been a hundred people in this one 
lifetime, and my reality keeps changing and evolving to where I don't 
know what is real anymore, and sometimes don't care.

You've probably heard the humorous saying:

  "Just when I thought I knew all the answers, they changed all the
  questions!"

Boy, can I relate to that.  Maybe we think there's a set of final
truths or answers at "the end" of all the searching.  But I think it
would be totally consistent if just when you became a god and thought
you were THERE, it would all be different.  Maybe everything is an 
infinite spiral of evolving things into new and different things.

Whatever reality is, I think the main goal is to be happy in whatever
reality you're in at the moment.  No matter where you think you are or 
who you think you are...your reality will be a drag if you're unhappy.  
And since your reality will probably keep changing all the time...it's 
easier to flow with it instead of trying to figure it out.  

When I struggle for BIG answers to things...they never come until I 
sit back and say "Okay, whatever...".  And then they are just there, 
clear as day and don't seem very important.

Also, if you don't think you're heading somewhere and that there's
some supreme "end" to it all, you can be a lot happier with where you 
are right now.  

It's kind of a scarey thought to think that the rode we're walking on 
might go in a big circle, and the scenery just keeps changing.  It 
seems like we think there has to be a destination for every road.   
Someone, somewhere, said, "It's the trip that counts."  Maybe that's
true on an even deeper level than we might first think.

Maybe the idea of "reality" is simply another attempt to define our
surroundings somehow...something we feel a need to do to feel secure.  
But how can you accurately define something that keeps on changing?

Jerri

"The wheel is turning and you can't slow down..."

    re .8
    
    There is also another interesting aspect of this elusive thing called
    reality.  I think there may be some constants like universal laws
    vs the variables....  universal laws are applicable
    to all beings; all life.  What kind of reality is that?
    
    The variables which give me so much trouble are the
    ones which ride on that non-descript thing which Einstein referred
    to as E=MC2... I think energy came into existance as the ultimate
    joke on us all.  I refer here to the subtle energies which transport
    emotions, thoughts, feeling, love/hate etc......it's a language
    all it's own...some know it, some only sense it and some are oblivious
    to it...as a thought changes, so does the individual and her/his
    environment.....reality?  It's amazing we can keep up with ourselves
    let alone others.
    
    All things are relationship.....to self (own reality), others (their
    reality) the environment (its reality) the massas (and their reality),
    and it goes on and on. It could be overwhelming if we really let
    ourselves think about it.  
    
    I suppose the trick is to stay with the universal laws and see the
    variables as just process...when I can remember to do that then
    things work smoothly...when I forget I get caught in all those fun
    variables and go for a rollercoaster ride! 
    
    Just thinking outloud.
    
    Lora
                                                             
    

re .10

There could be some universal laws that apply to everything, but maybe it's
not necessary and/or possible for us to ever know what they are.  Like that 
great line in "Altered States" (which I probably won't quote accurately) 
"the final truth is that there is no final truth".  ?Who knows?  Even if we 
could define reality on some grand scale, it probably wouldn't matter to us 
THEN anyway.  I've often thought that if I knew everything, there wouldn't 
be anything left to do.

But, since our relationships seem to be how we judge our present reality, 
it seems most beneficial to improve the quality of those.  Not only can
that make life more enjoyable, but it can improve our overall understanding 
of the world around us...which may be the only reality we can know right now.

...and as the roller coaster speeds along...just hang onnnnnnnnn!  (and don't
try to grab on to anything or you'll get ripped clear out of your seat!)

Jerri

    	As the last phrase in the movie BEING THERE says:
    
    	"Reality is a state of mind."
    
    	Larry