Conference hydra::dejavu

    Re .0:
    
    I almost forgot.  These methods that would be fun to discuss needn't
    have to be affirmed to work.  (I suspect if anyone had a foolproof
    method of doing _that_, they'd have cornered the market in something
    or other.)  What we'll limit our discussion here, I hope, is what
    people tried.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

(-:

I chewed on (well bit into) a laurel leaf (specifically a bay laurel
leaf) the other night at an Italian restaurant.  Soon after that I had
a vision that I would lose some money, and I did.  The vision was called
the bill.

:-)

		Topher

Although I don't use it myself (at least directly) the fortune-telling
technique which I have always found most interesting is bibliomancy.  It
is hardly obscure -- since it is widely used -- but it is talked about
less than many other, less used, methods.

Essentially, one takes an appropriate book, open it "at random" then poke
at the page (again "at random") with your finger.  The passage (verse,
sentence, paragraph -- whatever) that you point to is then interpreted
as telling you something about the present situation or its outcome.

In our culture this is practiced overwhelmingly most often with the
Bible.  This is considered to be "acceptable" by many fundamentalists
who reject all other "magic" as un-Christian or anti-Christian.

This may be why it is mentioned so relatively rarely.  The practitioners
get quite incensed if you suggest that it is no different from other
fortune-telling.  "It is not fortune-telling but seeking God's wisdom."
Among those with the education necessary to understand the word, even
calling it "bibliomancy" is likely to provoke outrage.

I remember hearing somewhere of someone who got what they considered
good results from "The Hunting of the Snark" by Lewis Carrol.

If you accept the "Book of Thoth" theory (that the Tarot cards were
originally the unbound pages of a book) then Tarot reading (one form of
cartomancy) is a form of bibliomancy.

Reading the I Ching can also be interpreted as a form of bibliomancy.
There is even a "vulgar" form of the I Ching (I forget what its called)
where the querient simply selects a numbered stick, and the corresponding
numbered passage is looked up in a special book of fortunes.  I had a
kit when I was a kid.

				Topher

    Apparently a *very* old method of divination was for the
    professional seer to be bitten by a poisonous snake.  If one
    has an immunity to the poison, the result is visions and
    hallucinations.  Development of an immunity is left as an
    exercise for the ambitious acolyte (Hint: a baby snake has
    only a little poison.).
    						Ann B.

    Re .4:
    
    Hmm... the priestess at Delphi was called the "pythoness."
    
    However, the _actual_ python (as Indian Rock Python) is a constrictor
    and nonpoisonous.
    
    Re .2:
    
    Did you lose the money, or did you choke on the laurel leaf and
    sue the restaurant? ;-)
    
    Re .3:
    
    I tried a little bibliomancy with Alburtis Magnus' _Marvels of the
    World_ for something appropriate for this conference and got: "And
    when salt peter is put in a vessel and vinegar upon it, it will
    boil or seeth mightily without any fire."  Make of it what you will.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    I blush to confess this, but I listen to songs on the radio
    (musicalmancy?).  When something is troubling me, a song that my
    subconscious decides has particular relevance to the problem at hand
    tends to stick in my head.  If I make an effort to "listen" to the
    song, my thinking usually clarifies on the issue and I can then
    take a course of action.  If I don't listen, the song just keeps
    playing itself louder as situations representative of it keep cropping
    up.
    
    Sheepishly yours,
    			Marcia

    You can peel a potato, apple, carrot (depending on who you ask)
    throw the peeling (it must be kept in one piece) over your left
    shoulder, ask a question, and look at the pattern it lands in to
    see what the answer is.
    
    Also, tea leaves.  Tea leaves are read in a similar manner.
    
    Kathleen
    
    BTW, I don't believe in either of these techniques.

    I know one future I can definitely tell from throwing vegetable
    peels over my shoulder, if done in my yard:  the racoons will 
    visit tonight!  (We have 3 regulars, and one is the size of a 
    garbage truck.)
    
    Marcia

    re .7:
    
    Tea leaves are treated in the same manner?  If _I_ threw tea leaves
    over my left shoulder to establish a pattern, my wife would kill
    me! [Techical term: imposed human limitations.] :-)
    
    Re .8:
    
    Would vegetable-matter-casting be a special form of evocation for
    local nature forms? ;-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

The the book _Illusions_, Richard Bach mentions the technique of
bibliomancy (sp?). Richard gets a copy of this "Handbook for Messiah"
and is playing around with it when Don mentions that it works with
anything...

I personally think that we interprete what we read/see/hear in terms
of what we are thinking/feeling at the moment. So if you are worried
about something, a random bit from a book might help you think about it
in a new way and hence the random bit "helped" you...

DDA

    
 
    My most successful forecast.  If I enter a trance state (i.e. take
    a nap) between 8AM and 5PM, Mon-Fri (holidays excluded), I can foresee
    my boss paying me a visit.
    
    (It's not as easy as you think.  I'm  a remote specialist, and my
    boss is 36 miles away.)
    
    Dave
    
    P.S. Marcia,  It works as well down here, but we get 'possums, not
    'coons.
    
    DMc

    This is what I do when I play Megabucks:  I take a walk down this
    road in my neighborhood that I've nicknamed "Bunny Lane", because
    one can always see wild rabbits in people's yards.  I count the
    rabbits I see and play that many bets when I buy my next Megabucks
    ticket.  So far I've won free games each time I've tried this method.
    Now if I could just figure out a way to get the bunnies to guarantee
    me six correct numbers . . .
    
    Marcia

    re .12:
    
    "Lepusonancy?"
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    RE: .9
    
    What I *meant* in .7, was that the forms the peelings land in are
    interpreted in the same way that tea leaves are read in the tea
    cup.
    
    Steve, would your wife be any happier having you throw potato and
    apple peelings over your let shoulder than she would be having you
    throw tea leaves :^)?
    
    I predict that throwing vegetables will cause the the thrower to
    have a messy floor.
    
    Kathleen

    Well, it took me a while to get this entered in.  I ran it through
    DECSPELL and added 95 new words to my dictionary.  It is the most
    complete list I could find.  I apologize for any duplications with 
    previous replies.  I also apologize that some of them aren't true 
    means of divining.  You can take out the ones you don't like.

   Aeromancy or divination from the air and sky concentrates upon cloud 
shapes, comets, spectral formations, or other phenomena not normally
visible in the heavens.
   Alchemy is the science of transmuting base metals into gold or silver
with the aid of a mysterious substance termed the "philosopher's
stone."  Alchemist also claimed to prolong human life indefinitely by
means of a secret elixir.
   Alectryomancy is a form of divination whereby a bird, usually a black
hen or a white gamecock, is allowed to pick grains of corn from a circle
of letters, thus forming words or names with prophetic significance.
Another method is to recite the letters of the alphabet, noting those
at which a cock crows.
   Aleuromancy requires slips with answers to questions.  These are
rolled in balls of dough, which are baked, then mixed.  One is chosen at
random and presumably will be fulfilled.  Modern "fortune cookies" are
a survival of this ancient ritual.
   Alomancy is divination by salt.
   Alphitomancy utilizes special cakes that are digestible by persons
with a clear conscience, but are distasteful to others.
   Anthropomancy involves human sacrifice.
   Apantomancy covers forecasts from chance meetings with animals, birds,
and other creatures.
   Arithmancy or Arithmomancy is the ancient form of Numerology and 
applies chiefly to divination through numbers and letter values.
   Astraglomancy or Astragyromancy was worked with crude dice bearing 
letters and later numbers.
   Astrology is divination by the stars, planets, and moons.
   Augury is the general art of divination, covering many forms and 
applying chiefly to interpretations of the future based on signs and
omens.
   Austromancy refers to divination by a study of the winds.
   Axiomancy requires an ax or hatchet, which answers questions by its
quivers when driven into a post, or points out the direction taken by
robbers or other miscreants, according to the way the handle falls.
   Belomancy required the tossing or balancing of arrows.
   Bibliomancy involves divination by books.
   Botanomancy requires the burning of tree branches and leaves to gain
desired answers.
   Capnomancy is the study of smoke rising from a fire.
   Cartomancy is fortune telling with cards.
   Catoptromancy was an early form of crystal gazing, utilizing a mirror
that was turned to the moon to catch the lunar rays.
   Causimomancy involves divination from objects placed in a fire.  If
they fail to ignite, or burn more slowly than anticipated, it becomes a
good omen.
   Cephalomancy refers to divinatory procedures with the skull or head
of a donkey or goat.
   Ceraunoscopy draws omens from the study of thunder and lightning.
   Ceroscopy is a form of divination in which melted wax is poured into
cold water, forming bubbles which are interpreted.
   Chiromancy is divination from the lines of a person's hands.
   Chirognomy is the study or traits through general hand formation.
   Clairaudience is "clear hearing", a form of esp.
   Clairvoyance is "clear seeing", another form of esp.
   Cleromancy is a form of lot casting, akin to divination with dice
but using pebbles, or other odd objects, instead of marked cubes.
   Clidomancy or Cleidomancy is worked with a dangling key that answers
questions.  It is a form of radiesthesia.
   Coscinomancy is similar, utilizing a dangling sieve.  It is also
a form of radiesthesia.
   Critomancy is the study of barley cakes, in hope of drawing omens
from them.
   Cromniomancy finds significance from onion sprouts.
   Cyclomancy pertains to divination from a turning wheel.
   Datylomancy is an early form of radiesthesia using a dangling ring 
indicating words and numbers by its swings.
   Daphnomancy requires listening to laurel branches crackling in an open 
fire; the louder the crackle, the better the omen.
   Demonomancy refers to divinations through the aid of demons.
   Dendromancy is associated with both the oak and mistletoe.
   Diving rods are radiesthesia devices.
   Dowsing is a form of radiesthesia.
   Gastromancy was an ancient form of ventriloquism with the voice lowered 
to a sepulchral tone as though issuing from the ground.  Prophetic 
utterances were thus delivered in a trance state.
   Geloscopy was the art of divination from the tone of someone's laughter.
   Genethlialogy was the calculation of the future from the influence of 
the stars at birth.
   Geomancy began with tracing figures in the ground and later was 
extended to include random dots made with a pencil, which were interpreted
according to accepted designs.
   Graphology is the analysis of character through handwriting.
   Gyromancy was performed by persons walking in a circle marked with 
letters, until they became dizzy and stumbled at different points, thus
"spelling out" a prophecy.
   Halomancy is another term for Alomancy, or divination by salt.
   Haruspicy had to do with observing objects of ancient sacrifice and 
drawing prophetic conclusions from them.
   Hippomancy was a form of Haruspicy.
   Hieroscopy was a form of Haruspicy.
   Hydromancy, or the divination by water, covers a wide range of lesser
auguries, such as figures formed in water, the color of water, its ebb and
flow; or the ripples produced by pebbles dropped into a pool, an odd number
being good, an even number, bad.
   Ichthyomancy was divination by fish.
   Lampadomancy signifies portents from lights or torches.
   Lecanomancy involved a basin of water in the divination process.
   Libanomancy used incense as a means of interpreting omens.
   Lithomancy utilizes precious stones of various colors.  In its modern
form, these are scattered on a flat surface, and whichever reflects the
light most vividly fulfills the omen.  Blue, good luck soon.  Green the
realization of a hope.  Red, happiness in love or marriage.  Yellow, 
disaster or betrayal.  Purple, a period of sadness.  Black or gray, 
misfortune.  Colored beads may be used instead of jewels.
   Margaritomancy was a procedure utilizing pearls which were supposed to
bounce upward beneath an inverted pot if a guilty person approached.
   Metagnomy is a form of intuitive divination covering past, distant 
scenes of present, and future events viewed during a hypnotic trance.
   Meteormancy involves omens dependent on meteors and similar phenomena.
   Meteoposcopy is the reading of character from the lines of the forehead.
It is based on Astrology and has factors akin to Palmistry but belongs 
under the heading of Physiognomy.
   Molybdomancy draws mystic inferences from the varied hissing of molten
lead.
   Myomancy concerns rats and mice, the cries they give, and the 
destruction they cause as prophetic tokens.
   Numerology involves interpreting names and dates in terms of vital 
numbers that are indicative of individual traits.
   Oculomancy is a form of divination from the eyes.
   Oinomancy utilizes wine in determining omens.
   Oneiromancy is the interpretation of dreams.
   Onomancy gives meanings for names of persons and things.
   Onomantics is a form of Onomancy involving personal names.
   Onychomancy is the study of fingernails in the sunlight, looking for 
any significant symbols that can be traced.
   Onyomancy is the interpretation of personal characteristics from the 
nails.
   Oomantia is divination by eggs.
   Ooscopy another form of divination by eggs.
   Ophiomancy divination from serpents.
   Orniscopy involves omens gained by watching the flight of different 
birds.
   Ornithomancy another form of gaining omens from watching birds.
   Ovomancy another form of divination by eggs.
   Palmistry interprets lines and formations of the hands.
   Pegomancy is divining from spring water or bubbling fountains.
   Pessomancy is divination from pebbles.
   Phrenology deals in head formations.
   Phrenopathy is similar to Phrenology but incorporates hypnotism.
   Phyllorhodomancy consists of slapping rose petals against the hand and
judging the success of a venture according to the loudness of the sound.
   Physiognomy deals with character analysis through physical appearance.
   Precognition is an inner knowledge of things to come.
   Prediction is the announcement of events to come.
   Premonition is a foreboding of the future.
   Prognostication a combination of Precognition, Prediction, and 
Premonition that goes into specific details.
   Prophecy is inspired knowledge of important events with their 
fulfillment almost certain.
   Psychography is a form of mysterious writing, usually of divinatory 
type.
   Psychometry is the faculty of gaining impressions from a physical 
object.
   Pyromancy is a form of divination by fire, wherein powdered substances
are thrown on the flames.
   Pyroscopy is another form of divination by fire.
   Radiesthesia is a general heading for divination by holding objects that
move.
   Rhabdomancy is divination by means of a wand or stick.  The forerunner
of the divining rod.
   Rhapsodomancy divination by opening a book of poetry and reading a 
passage at chance, hoping it will prove to be an omen.
   Sciomancy is divination gained through spirit aid.
   Sideromancy is the burning of straws on a hot iron and studying the 
figures thus formed, along with the flames and smoke.
   Sortilege is the casting of lots in hope of a good omen.
   Sopdomancy provides omens from cinders or soot.
   Stichomancy is another form of Rhapsodomancy.
   Stolisomancy draws omens from the oddities in the way people dress.
   Sycomancy involves writing messages on tree leaves; the slower they dry,
the better the omen.  A more modern way is to write questions on slips of
paper, roll them up, and hold them in a strainer above a steaming pot.
Whichever unrolls first will be answer;  but a blank slip should always be 
included in the group.
   Tephramancy is the seeking of messages in ashes; tree bark is burned for
that purpose and the diviner looks of symbols as with tea leaves.
   Tiromancy is divination by cheese.
   Xylomancy is divination from pieces of wood.  Some diviners pick them up
at random, interpreting them according to their shape or formation.  Others
put pieces of wood upon a fire and note the order in which they burn, 
forming conclusions as to omens, good or bad.

  What a nice list!  Thanks for putting it in.
  
  This just occurred to me as I was driving in to work this morning. 
  Would a self-fulfilling prophecy be called "psychomancy"?
  
  :^)
  
  						Terza
  

    I didn't want to start a new topic, as there are enough on futuretelling
    as it is, so here goes...
    
    One question I have about futuretelling is that if you were told that
    your future was (to get the tacky example) 'you will marry a tall, dark
    stranger', then, at some time in the future, when you _meet_ a tall
    dark stranger, because of the prophesy, you believe that you will marry
    this person, and so you will taint your view of the person.
    
    Also, to have your future read, you need to believe that it is possible
    to forsee the future, and so when the prophesy has a chance of coming
    true, you will believe that it is the truth - This seems a viscious
    circle.
    
    (It's a bit muddled (due to last night), but please give me your
    opinions - this dilemma has hurt a good friend of mine)
    
    			Andy.
    

    re: .17
    
          I'm not sure what your question is, but at least a part
    of a response that I would give is to remind you of a truism.
    That is, "Belief precedes reality," therefore "yes" to your
    supposition.  If you believe it, it will be so (keeping in mind
    that beliefs are "nested.")
    
    Frederick