Conference hydra::dejavu

This was touched upon in previous notes.  Particularly note #2, "Dream Come
True."

Steve Kallis, Jr.

    As a result of a head injury a few years ago, I have a seizure
    disorder, also known as epilepsy.  I've done extensive reading and
    I've had a number of episodes back in the early days before the
    medication helped stabilize the condition.  Having done the reading
    and had the experiences, I now agree with the medical "experts"
    who have determined that DeJavu is not a mystical experience, but
    merely a neurological "hiccup".  During the onset of a grand mal
    seizure, an epileptic will frequently experience an "aura".  An
    aura will manifest itself in many forms, and people have reported
    the smell of apricots, dizziness, and other unusual reactions.
    An aura can last for minutes, for hours, or not occur at all.
    In my experience, I remember hearing a radio announcer talking on
    and on.
    Occasionally I forget to take my pills, and DeJavu will almost
    certainly occur at some time during the day.  Various neurologists
    who I've consulted in the past have explained to me that this feeling
    is what's termed an "aborted seizure": my neurological signals were
    creating a seizure condition, but the residual medication in my
    system was preventing this from becoming a grand mal seizure.  
    I want you to know that I added this long-winded comment because
    I am so familiar with this feeling of DeJavu.  
    I have a wonderful gift of psychic ability and have had countless
    experiences when I have been willing to use this gift.  I know the
    difference between a true psychic experience and a mild neurological
    breakdown.  This probably won't please many people, but I'll explain
    my experiences and studies further.
    
    P.S. I'm enjoying reading this file and am a newcomer.
    
    -Ginny
    

    Many times when I have dejavu it is a strong feeling of familiarity
    that lasts just a second or two.  There are other very infrequent
    occurrances of dejavu that last for several minutes.  In some of
    these dejavu experiences I know what people are going to say word for
    word.  In others I know the general idea of what they are going
    to say but not word for word.  I'm not sure what dejavu is, but
    for me there are several different types of dejavu experiences.
    
    		Dave

    	And don't forget Vujades, which George Carlin explains as
    remembering events which never happened to you.  :^)
    
    	Larry
    

RE: .2
    
    There is quite a bit of evidence which is quite suggestive of a
    link between the temporal lobe of the brain and psychic experiences.
    I am told that grand mal epilepsy is frequently (always?) associated
    with temporal lobe problems.  Is your seizure disorder associated
    with temporal lobe damage?  Did your gift for psychic ability predate
    your injury, or increase after the injury?
    
    				Topher

RE: .3
    
    Dave,
    
    I feel as if you had held up a lemon and a cucumber and said, "there
    are several different types of lemon."
    
    When you just have a feeling of "familiarity", however long it lasts,
    *that's* deja vu.  If you *actually* know what someone is going
    to say, specifically or generally, then *that* is an apparent premonition.
    The apparent premonition may be a *real* premonition, obtaining
    the knowledge of the future paranormally; or it may be a matter
    of the genius that shares your head with you (your subconscious)
    figuring it out on the basis of things which "you" (the conscious
    you) didn't even notice or think about.
    
    It is interesting to speculate that the two may be related in some
    way; but they are not the same thing.
    
    There are no "thought police" requiring you to use words correctly,
    but if you use the wrong word to refer to something, *especially*
    if it *is* similar in some way, people will be confused about what
    you mean.  Worse, people won't be sure what other people mean even
    when they use words correctly, so you are making it harder for other
    people to communicate as well.
    
    				Topher

    RE: .6
    
    If I had held up a lemon and a cucumber I would have said, "there
    are several different types of cucumber." :-)
    
    For me, all the experiences that I described give me the same feeling
    but of different intensities.  Literally translated deja vu means
    already seen, and all of the experiences I spoke of are dejavu for me. 
    I don't know who decided what specific experiences fall under the
    definition of dejavu, but I think a dejavu experience may be different
    for everyone.  Couldn't there be a precognitive dejavu experience?
    
    		Dave

RE .7
    
    Yes.  And when I watch reruns of Get Smart on TV, I also have a
    similar feeling of familiarity (though without the eerie overtones
    since I *know* why it seems familiar even if I can't quite recall
    the particular episode after 20 odd years).
    
    The point is that deja vu means (in English -- independent on its
    specific roots) a seemingly unjustified (and preferably, unjustifiable)
    sense of familiarity.  If the feeling is justified, normally or
    paranormally, then it is not deja vu.
    
    Perhaps it would be better if the word had the broader meaning you
    attribute to it.  But it *does not*.  If you wish to communicate
    you cannot simply unilaterally change the meanings of words as you
    use them.
    
    The word apple used to just generically mean "fruit".  I could decide
    that I thought that that usage was, for some reason better, than
    the contemporary usage.  I could then go around refering to apples,
    oranges, lemons, and perhaps even cucumbers as apples.  That no
    one would understand what I was refering to would, however, be my
    own fault.
    
    If you want a term which means "either deja vu or a premonition",
    then make one up.  Then no one will be mislead by what you say.
    
    				Topher

RE: .8
    
    Sorry, didn't mean to imply otherwise.
    
    At the present time there is a body of evidence which hints at a
    relationship between temporal lobe activity and psychic experiences.
    In my opinion, that evidence is distinctly *under*whelming, i.e.,
    there exists only the bare beginnings of a convincing case.
    
    Physical damage to the temporal lobe results in change to its
    functionioning.  This change can take many different forms, including
    grand mal seizures, "aura" phenomena (not to be confused with the
    "human aura"), and frequent and intense deja vu experiences.
    
    *If* the temporal lobes are involved in psychic ability, then I
    would expect damage to them to effect such ability.  Either a strong
    increase or decrease in psychic functioning would then be evidence
    for this association.  Since Ginny refered to her gift in the
    present tense, I thought that in this case, at least, what was
    interesting was whether or not it had either appeared or strongly
    increased with the head injury.
    
    I did not mean to imply that I thought that the deja vu experiences
    and the psychic gift were the same thing (although I retain an open
    mind on the speculation that deja vu is some kind of "side tracked"
    premonition); any more than I thought that the grand mal seizures
    were a form of PK.  I was trying to ascertain whether it made any
    sense to consider the possibility that in Ginny's case they had,
    broadly speaking, the same cause.  If this had occurred in this
    case then there would be a little bit more evidence for an association
    between the temporal lobe and psychic ability.
    
    					Topher

re: .7,.9

It's interesting that, neurologically speaking, the FEELING of
familiarity (or conversely the FEELING of novelty) may be
independent of any particular object.  In other words, there
may be a "familiarity center" or a "novelty center" in the
brain (to abuse the same sort of already bad jargon that gave us
"pleasure centers") that does not necessarily have to have an
appropriate external object in order to wake up and start firing.
Conditions like epilepsy or the type of states induced by some
hallucinogenic drugs apparently trigger one or the other of these
centers to produce the internal, subjective feeling without there
being any external stimulus that we would consider appropriate.

The sensation of familiarity could possibly have a "psychic"
interpretation, or so it seems to me, given the right set of
circumstances.  But is there a possible psychic explanation for
the feeling of novelty (the sense that things which should be
familiar are strange or new)?  I can't think of one off the top
of my head, but it seems as if these things should be symmetrical.

RE: .12
    
    From what I have read, it is no longer considered really true that
    there is a "pleasure center".  Rather, in rather broad areas of
    the brain, stimulation of various neurons in various ways could
    produce a broad range of reactions, including "reinforcement" behavior.
    Early researchers, looking only for that response, rejected those
    mice (or cats, rats, monkeys,etc.) who didn't respond that way,
    feeling that they had "missed" the center with their probe.  In
    reality when the "hit it" the next neuron over might well have been
    a "miss".
    
    The broad area of the brain, where stimulation (or lesion) may produce
    a feeling of familiarity, with or without associated memories, is,
    I am told, the temporal lobe.  Epileptic deja vu is associated on
    EEG's with a "brain storm" in that area.
    
    				Topher

                           { Could This Be Dejavu?}                
     

       When  I was a member of the Jaycees,one of my fellow members
      
     was a caretaker for a large old house in the next town, he
    
     and his girlfriend resided in a small cottage that was with the
    
     property, we went to visit him, and on this occasion were taken
     
    to the main house, and into the kitchen area,where we shared a cup
    
    of coffee with the lady who was watching the main house.       
                                                                   
       We were able to see from the kitchen,through an archway into
    
    what was a formal dining room.   This was for the most part the
    
    extent of the visit.  I have not been in contact with this person
    
    for some time as they have moved out of state, but, when I was looking
    
    for a larger house for myself, I was refered to this place by another
    
    person when I mentioned that I was looking for a larger house to
    
    house all my magic equipment and book collection.  Imagine my  
    
    surprise when I went into this house with the real estate person.
    
      I had not seen this place in well over 5 years and yet I was able
    
    to remember the placement of the rooms and where certain things
    
    were located in the house.  Is this dejavu or what?
    
    
    Magically
    
    
    Paul     

    Re .16 (Paul):
    
    >  I had not seen this place in well over 5 years and yet I was able
    >
    >to remember the placement of the rooms and where certain things
    >
    >were located in the house.  Is this dejavu or what?
     
    Well, my off-the-cuff reaction would be "what."  If you either toured
    the house once or were given clues in conversation with the owner
    or inhabitant from which you could pick up clues about the house's
    layout, such information could have lasin dormant in your subconscious
    until such time as you had a need of it, and then be recalled.
    
    It might indeed prove to have been something paranormal; but apparently
    for some people, a _lot_ of old memories can be stored, normally
    "out of reach" until needed.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Re. 17(Steve):
    
    Thanks for the info Steve, The subconcious must really store a lot
    of info,because when I was talking to a friend about magic and
    puzzles he was telling me about a certain one that he had.  I was
    able to locate the exact book in which the puzzle appeared.    
       He  was amazed that out of all the books which I have that I
    was able to single out the one that contained the right info.
    
      I just got a chance to read this as I have been on vacation.
    
    Will try to keep in touch and to contribute what I can to this
    
    conference. 
    
    Magically
    
    Paul.
    
    

    Just what is a dejavu?
    
    Joel
    

    Just what is a dejavu?
    
    Joel
    

re: .19,.20

Yes.

							paul

    
    You know what they say, Todd - like attracts like.....:-)
    
    
    guy

    Just a little holiday smile...
    
    Joel
    

    re: guy
    
    Like what?  ;-)
    
    Nanci

    
    Like, wow Nanci, I don't know....:-)
    
    guy

    Rats!  And I was counting on you to have the answer! ;-)
    
    Nanci

    I know the answer...
    
    Joel
    

    ... the answer to what ?

Was there a question?

    You don't have to have a question to have an answer
                                                        ... but it helps.

    Is that like having an effect without a cause ?

    see .25 and .28.
    
    Joel
    

    
    re: .34 (Todd)
    
    Haven't I heard that before?
    
    :-)
    
    guy

    
    TODD!!!  I just read parts of Yogananda's "Man's Eternal Quest".  In
    there he writes that God was never 'caused'.
    
    Why?  Just be-cause!
    
    Cindy                

    
    The answer to 'Why?" was supplied by a good friend and DEJAVU emeritus.
    
    Cindy

    Cindy !!!   Your 'cause' note reminded me of something I read a while
    back, about how the typical games we play are finite, but that there is
    one and only one infinite game, with no start and no end.
    I guess if you choose to play that one for a while, you get an interesting
    perspective.  
    
    	Todd
    

    
    Oh dear, Todd, does this mean that my collecting all these toys won't
    let me win after all?  (;^)
    
    Cindy

    re: .39, Cindy,
    
>    Oh dear, Todd, does this mean that my collecting all these toys won't
>    let me win after all?  (;^)
    
    Not necessarily !  Some toys bring more joy than others ;-) and I tend to 
    focus on the motivational effect of the toy on the game, rather than
    defining the game by the toy. SO, from *my* perspective, toys might
    well indirectly help you win !   I have a feeling you're winning
    already, at least in the games I perceive ... :-)
    
    	todd