Conference hydra::dejavu

"It doesn't help a prophet to be too specific." -L. Sprague deCamp.

Nostradamus, who has been both praised and belittled, wrote a series of
quatrains that purported to tell the future.  The problem was (and is)
that Nostradamus' writings are highly symbolic, and he uses allusions
rather than proper names.  By saying that "the blues" will conquer
"the re4ds," for instance, he seems to be making a prediction.  "The blues,"
could represent any victorious force, particularly one that was fighting
an enemy whose standard was colored red.  For instance:
	There is blue in the flags of France, England, and the United
States (there is also red, but _not only_ red); the flags of Nazi Germany
and Japan were white and red (no blue); therefore the statement could be
taken to mean that the flags with blue as well as red would overcome the
no-blue-but-red flags: that could be taken as a "prediction" of the out-
come of World War II.  But it could have meant anything else.

Hindsight is 20-20.  In all the Nostradamic quatrains, there's bound to be 
something to fir an historical occurrence that took place prior to the present
but after the boiok was written/published.

Many "propheccies" are of this sort.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

	Steve, your comment that hind sight is 20/20 is right on the
mark.  I feel that all the people who capitalized on nostradamus are the
authors of the books displaying this 20/20 hind sight.  There was a prediction
of doom a few years back based around some significant line up of planets and
what Nostradamus said.  The doom didn't come.  Just prior to this happening 
many people put alot of faith in his predictions sighting the past acuracy.
It makes me feel that if enough people believe something will happen it
could actually cause it to happen by this belief alone and not the prediction.

	Tell the people a lie enough times and it becomes the truth.  I'm
sure Hitler followed that philosophy.

							Jorge'

	On the subject of World War II,  he (Nostradamus..Sp?) wasn't too
far wrong in "predicting" the German leader's name as (if my memory serves
me correctly!) "Hister".


  Regards,
--Martin.

Re .4:

The acid test would to set a date on such a program (say January 1, 1986)
and work on predictions _after_ the date of taping/filming.  Then, some
agreed-upon time later, reviewing the tape to see how accurate the "pre-
dictions" (i.e., interpretations) were.

As noted earlier, hindsight is _always_ 20/20.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

I saw the program "The Man Who Saw Tomorrow", and I seem to recall that
one of his predictions was that 1986 will be a year of severe worldwide
drought - at least that is the interpretation.  Judging from the amount
of snow we have been getting in Colorado this winter, I would predict
that the prediction is in error.  Did anyone else see the show?

/Mike

    I have finally made it back and am glad to be able to participate
    again.
    
    Re .-1
    
    Yes, I saw it.  I think its the only time I've seen anyone project
    any of his predictions of the future.
    
    Remember the prediction is for "worldwide drought".  You may have
    had a lot of snow, but here in New England it is supposed to be
    one of the dryest winters that we have had in a long time, and local
    predictions are that there will be a shortage of water this spring.
    
    					Bill

RE: .5

Here are some specific predictions of Nostradamus from the "Man Who Saw
Tomorrow".  These are events which are to take place in our future.


May 1988  - Major Earthquake in "New City"		

Dates are determined by planet alignment - I didn't do the calculations,
they came from the show.  "New City" isn't exactly defined, but quatrain
scholars tend to agree that "New City" usually refers to someplace in the
new world.  Geologists also agree that, due to plate stresses, we can expect
a major earthquake in the LA/SF area within the next 5 years.


1994 - 2021  - Nuclear war with Middle Eastern "Blue Emperor".  

Exact start not revealed, but war well under way by 1999.  Will last 27
years.  (Don't ask me how it's supposed to last that long!)


3000 AD. - End of Life on Earth

Anything else need to be said?



It *was* an interesting show.  I just hope he's wrong!

-- Sam

    If I see anybody in the mid. east walking around with a blue turbin 
    (one of the anti CHRIST that NOSTRADAMUS predicted that would rise
    out from that region) then i'll truly be a beliver in his quartrains(sp)

    Hmmm. I realize I'm both "new" to the conference and "late" in 
    becoming involved in this conference.....
    _BUT_!!!
      What about Nostradamus' reference to "Spanish Franco"??
    
      How about his prediction of the route that Louis and Marie   
      Antoinette chose to try to escape Paris??
    
      What about his reference to "The Tile Works"?
    
      How did the plaque become attached to his skeleton that had the
      month and year that his grave would be robbed engraved on it?
    
      Sure, these Quatrains are interpreted differently by different
      scholars.....But so is the Bible!!!
    
      Frankly, his predictions scare the daylights out of me!!
    
      And in answer to the "drought" prediction...there's no excess
    of water in Ethiopia and other countries in northeast Africa now
    is there???
    
      Another thing...he stated repeatedly in his works that MAN was
    in control of his own destiny..and that none of the predictions
    _HAD_ to come true...if man did not cause them to...
    JMCD

    
    Major draughts in 1986?  Naw, just ask the south east, no major
    droughts down there...
    
    I wanna live in Australia in 1994.
    
    Bob
    

    I'm with those of you who hope his predictions don't come true --
    or at least not all of them.  
    
    My heart lurched the day I say Quadaffi wearing a turban -- does
    he qualify for Mid-East?  Truthfully, I don't care if you think
    I'm a redneck -- I wish he had been killed in the bombing.  He
    scares me.
    
    Nostra. also predicted famines, floods, drought at the time some-
    thing streaks across the sky (can't remember exact words, but he
    was referring to Haley's Comet).  I think the news has touched on
    these disasters recently.
    
    Also his prediction about the 3 Kennedy brothers and JF being shot
    but his assasin never know -- well the bullet that Ruby shot was
    not the fatal one and went in thru the back of his neck.  The 
    fatal one was shot from a different angle -- the killer was the
    "man in wood"  that N. described.  Blowup photography of the 
    scene of the crime shows the silowette of a man with rifle in
    a bush.  I think Nostradamus was a little too accurate for my
    peace of mind, but, maybe we should all think positively and
    in that way drive out the excess negativity that could cause
    the devestation that he predicts imminently.
    
    Can I go Down Under with you Bob?  Why Australia? Is that area
    supposed to escape the worst of it?
    
                                         janice 8^)

    I saw "The Man Who Saw Tomorrow" (rented the video tape), but it
    has also been on HBO this past May.  I have to admit that I was
    very frightened by it.  The great earthquake predicted for May 1988
    was dated based on certain planetary configurations.  I don't remember
    them exactly now, but at the time I checked my ephemeris and the
    configuration occurs in late April/early May 1988.  The 1994 to
    1999 events also are triggered by a planetary configuration in 1994.
    I guess I'll have to watch it again and find out exactly what they
    are.
    
    He predicted the '88 earthquake would hit the "NEW CITY".  This,
    in his terms, meant the New World, so it could mean anywhere, not
    just California.  By the way, during the summer I was driving into
    work listening to WRKO AM and they had a news report of a finding
    in Connecticut of numerous cracks in a rock formation.  The people
    who found these cracks said that to them it was a sign of perhaps
    a great earthquake occurring in the Southern New England area
    "sometime".  I searched for newspaper articles on this, and searched
    VTX AP NEWS for any items and have never heard of it again.  Anybody
    else hear of it?
    
    

    It's been known for awhile that a major fault line transits New
    England. So yes, the possibility of a major catastrophe occuring
    there does exist. Most residents probably don't think much of it
    though, because it's not as active as the fault lines on the Pacific
    plate.

    >  an Anti Christ rising up, Nostradamus pointed out 3 Anto Christ's,
    >  the last being the worst. He named Hitler as one and was only off
    >  by one letter Hister. Both the Boble and Nostradmaus point out the
       
    "... the temptation to translate 'Hister,' a name mentioned in
    several quatrains, as 'Hitler.'  ('Hister' is simply Latin for
    'Danube.'  There is not the slightest doubt that Nostradamus
    was referring to a river, not a dictator.  In Century V:29, there
    is even a bridge over 'Hister'!)"
    
    	quoted from "The Modern Revival of 'Nostradamitis'" by Piet
    	Hein Hoebens, in _The_Skeptical_Inquirer_, Vol. VII,
    	No. 1.

    
       This is a bit strange, but........
    After browsing thru this notes file this morning, I grabbed a cup
    of coffee and decided to read the morning paper. On the bottom of
    page 3 (paper needn't be mentioned), was this little item you all
    might find interesting, under the title:
    
       UNDER A CLOUD
    AP, Pope John Paul II is scheduled to visit Lyons, France, Oct.
    4, but a 400-yr. old prophecy by Nostradamus warns: "Roman Pontiff
    beware of approaching the city which is washed by two rivers; your
    blood and that of your people will be spilled near here when the
    rose blooms." Many in Lyons, it goes on to say, fear this means
    their city.
    
    Any comments? I not too familiar with anything in this notes file
    other than what I've read here, but it sure makes interesting reading.
    
    Paul

    Nostradamus was evidently beset by risk (abilities that were no
    longer acceptable theologically), calamaties (loss of family to
    The Plague), profession (an M.D. was suspect), extraction (Jew
    in the Midi), & finally - if those were not enough - fame. QED.
    You should reckon all those against the quatrains: encoding as
    self-protection, reaction to his present circumstances, hopes
    for survival, & - if those were not enough - smashing success.
    Few survive all those in any century & in any culture. 
    
    - Boleslaw

    Add to the equation that The rennaissance was a time of turbulence
    comparable to our own: military technology advancing exponentially
    & artists like Leonardo da Vinci mastering military technology for
    protection & pay (his patron was Francois 1er).
    
    Michel de Nostredame was looking from a time like ours outwards
    to times like his & ours: turbulent.                                       
      
    - Boleslaw
                                                                             

    
    I also saw 'The Man Who Saw Tomorrow' when it appeared on HBO lasat
    year and all I have to say about it is that the possibilities of
    any of the things that he predicted coming true, scare the $%^&
    out of me!!
    
    

    You might consider that those observations scared the !@#$%^&*()
    out of Michel de Nostredame, as well, & so he encoded them into:
    enigmatic little quatrains that lock-up the things-seen inside an
    intellectually-buffered puzzle. That is: to view it is to see it:
    directly; to decode it is to infer it in segments, fragmentarily.
    That's why the quatrains (4-liners) take some paragraphs to make
    explicit. Vatic (prophetic) statements are (almost always) coded. 
    It decreases the immediacy of the things-seen (I'm deliberately
    avoiding the word 'visions' with all the connotations attached).
    
    Whether Micel de Nostredame was targeting certain years, decades,
    or centuries is always a matter of decoding clues in the quatrains.
    
    He saw things; he had inferential perceptions about the situation;
    he didn't have a on-screen clock running with the date incrementing.
    
    A great deeal of explication has been done about his quatrains on
    The Napoleonic Era (late 18th into early 19th cent.) Also some on
    his quatrains that appear to pertain to the 20th cent. Recently
    a paperback has come out on his quatrains that pertain to the
    last years of the 20th century: 1986-2000+ & ithas been available
    in most mass-market bookstores (cf. Barnes & Noble where I work
    Sundays, for ex.) I'm sure you can find it w/out much hunting.
    
    - Boleslaw
    
    
     

    I have to agree that hindsight is 20/20.
    
    Perhaps Hitler read Nostradamus.  I don't think he was born under
    that name.
    

    Re .22:
    
    >Perhaps Hitler read Nostradamus.  I don't think he was born under
    >that name.
     
    Correct.  His name origibnally was Adolf Schicklegruber.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    I can't help but wonder about something...
    
    Every generation does something that shocks the generation that
    went before it.  The elders seem to always be warning that we're
    going to blow ourselves up, or ruin our lives; they're always talking
    about the "Good Old Days"; about how things were better "then" than
    they are "now".  Perhaps it is this attitude, and the negative
    predictions found within it, that is (at least partially) responsible
    for the invention of bigger and better weapons for "self-protection".
    Perhaps it has been so ingrained into our minds that things are
    getting worse and worse, that we believe this, and, in our mass
    belief, are actually bringing the reality about.
    
    I guess that the point I am trying to make is, if we believe the
    worst is inevitable, and if we prepare for it and visualize it and
    talk about it, are we not adding force to its actuality?  Do we,
    then, begin acting in ways that help bring it about?
    
    Could N., from his uncomfortable stance in life, make these predictions
    based upon the direction of things at that time and place?  If there
    is one thing I have learned, it is that, at any given moment, we
    are headed toward outcome B...but every moment we live, and every
    action we take between now and the time of point B effects change
    upon point B.  If we give credibility to N.'s predictions, we increase
    the power of the predicted outcome; we look to point B to be that
    outcome, and so, act in ways, talk in ways, think in ways increase
    its truth.
    
    N. could have precognized names, and could have given improper
    attributes to the names (i.e., Hister; perhaps he precognized the
    name, but got the ideas behind it, wrong). (Am I making sense?)
    
    Also, as far as the HBO special goes, we're one generation removed
    from the intent of N.'s writings.  We're seeing someone *else's*
    interpretation of them.
                           
    I also feel, sometimes, that we take words too literally.  Jesus
    spoke in parables.  I feel that much which is quoted from different
    sources, including the Bible, is taken at face value; religious
    rituals have lost a good deal of their symbolic value; roles are
    acted out which have lost their deeper, symbolic, figurative meaning.
    Scratching the surface is easier than exploring the depths.
    
    I didn't mean to offend anyone, or open up a can of worms, although
    that might be the outcome.  If anything, I am looking forward to
    others, sharing their views.
    
    Meredith
    

    re: .24 (Meredith)
    
    >>	The elders seem to always be warning that we're going to blow 
    >>	ourselves up, or ruin our lives;...
    
    	A lot of that also seems to be happening right now, with people
    	like *us* in the role of the elders.  Only we're not only talking 
    	to the younger generation, we're talking to *all* generations.
    
    >>  Perhaps it has been so ingrained into our minds that things are
    >>	getting worse and worse, that we believe this, and, in our mass
    >>	belief, are actually bringing the reality about.
    
    	You're right.  Concentrating on anything in your life (reality), 
    	whether positive or negative, sends energy to the circumstances 
    	encompassing that situation, which in turn only intensifies that 
    	situation's power.  If I constantly worry about losing my job or 
    	that I'm not good enough to do my work, chances are I'll frazzle 
    	myself into such a lintball that my productivity and effective-
    	ness will wane into nonexistence.  My energy can (obviously) be 
    	better directed rather than towards such negativity, which would 
    	actually be feeding fuel to the fire, so to speak.  (I realize
    	this is a very weak analogy to the real problems of the Earth, 
    	but it's an analogy nonetheless of how focusing AND belief are 
    	the keys to manifestation.)
    
    						Carla
    

    RE: -.2
      
         Good!  Bueno! Bon!  If I were present with you, I'd offer you
    a high five, a handshake, a hug or whatever an appropriate
    acknowledgment of your understanding merits.
         I congratulate you (and give you "2 points") for understanding
    a very important tenet and most basic premise in creating your own
    reality.  Or, maybe better put, in recognizing that you *DO* create
    your own reality (although you are just hitting on the outskirts of it.)
                                                         
    Let me offer the following quote from the new Lazaris book,
    "The Sacred Journey..."  THe following excerpt is on page 23 and
    is printed without permission:
      
    "...
        
        The mystics of your ancient past, we would suggest, knew it
    was real.  The soothsayers and prophets knew it was real, too. 
    Recorded prophecy, prolific through the ages, comes abruptly to
    a stop at the end of the 20th Century and at the beginning of the
    21st.  Many point with a quaking finger claiming that this is proof
    of an End that is near.  Yes.  Yes, we would suggest that an end
    is near:  an End to the Old Age and the beginning of a New Age.
        Those who were insightful enough to be so profound in their
    predictions were, similarly, insightful enough to know not to make
    predictions for an Age of Humanity when people take their own power
    back and proceed first to consciously create their own personal
    reality, and then to consciously create their own global reality,
    out of and with their individual relationship with
    God/Goddess/All-That-Is.
         You see, in the Old Age you created your own reality, but you
    were not willing to be conscious of it.  Therefore, we would suggest
    that the blueprint of the future that you laid out in your subconscious
    mind was the blueprint you lived out consciously.  Those who were
    sensitive enough to see or read your subconscious blueprint could
    foretell your conscious future with astounding accuracy.  When an
    individual steps into the New Age, however, reality is created
    consciously, and therefore the blueprint of the future can be changed
    at will--at your Free Will.  Those who are sensitive enough to
    *honestly* see or read your blueprint are also humble enough to
    speak no longer of absolute futures, but instead they speak of possible
    and probable futures.  The operative word here is "honestly."
         As you step into the New Age, the futures become your futures.
    They become what you want them to be.  As more and more of you step
    into it, the New Age becomes more real than the Old.  Then the
    soothsayers stop saying.  The prophets stop prophesyzing."
     
     
      
    Frederick
    
    
    
    

    So the Age of Aquarius (as first brought into the general consciousness
    in "Hair" I believe) will come about as a result of our all focusing
    our energy on it?  Great! I hope it happens.  We certainly have
    the power to change things for the better, but it requires a certain
    percent of us to be focused - or generating "good vibes".  I get
    somewhat (only somewhat) pessimistic when I see that the world's
    population is increasing extremely rapidly and most of those new
    people are only concerned with *surviving* because of their economic
    situation... So, I think we have to concurrently work on improving
    the economic situation in the Third World so that the "new age"
    is not just a mental state in the minds of the well off...
    
    Comments?  Larry  @.@
                      \-/
    
    

    The world is out of balance and is in the process of "correcting"
    itself in my opinion.  All of the old institutions that perpetuated
    the problems are being shaken up and within the next three years
    they may be shattered.  

    
    Re. a few
    
    Carla on lintballs - so *that's* what that asterick is at the top
    of your favorite sideways happyface!  
    
    My goodness - I haven't seen Frederick this excited since the Indian
    reincarnation in "Across a crowded room......."
    
    *<(8*)|| - skier at large
    
    Cindy

    re: Cindy
      
        Hmmm!!  Well, if you could "see" my excitement whenever it 
    occurred, maybe some of those responsible for my inspiration would
    act more predictibly?
        Would they be "reading my subconscious" or acting out their
    own fantasies?
    
    
    Frederick
    (Peacefully-rising-bull)
    

    re: .29 (Cindy)
    
    	Ah, dear Cindy, you HAVE been away too long.  Since my new
    	haircut my smiley face now spouts an asterisk for a *nose*!
    	(Been sniffing too many lintballs!!!)  =8*)
    
    						Carla
    

    re: "institutions that (caused the problems) crumbling within the
    next three years..."
    
    My astrologer said something about that.  On what is it based? And
    what type of institutions would be involved in the crumbling action?

    Its a question of control... or rather losing control and it involves
    financial, religious and political institutions world-wide.

    
    A few years ago I bought a copy of the predictions of Nostradamus,
    which gave explanations to the Verses the Author? considered to
    have been fullfilled.
     I must admit I wasn't too impressed as everything seemed to be
    pretty vague, and could have referred to almost anything. Then I
    read a verse which really got me thinking.
     This was at the time when the Ayotolla was busy overthrowing the
    Shah in Iran, and I happened to spot a verse (which had no explanation)
    about the Peacock being overthrown by religeous leader.
     I cant rememeber the exact wording, and I no longer have a copy
    of the book, but maybe someone out there could look it up and see
    if it was as close to the truth as I thought. 
     I do remember it seemed spot on to me at the time.
    
    All the best
    
    George
    
    P.S. A note to Steve Kallis.
    
         Hitler was never known as Sticklegrubre. (sp?)
         I read an article in a Sunday paper last week which put an
         end to this myth.
    
    
    

    Re .34 (George):
    
         >Hitler was never known as Sticklegrubre. (sp?)
         >I read an article in a Sunday paper last week which put an
         >end to this myth.
          
    All I can say is that when I was alive during World War II (as a
    young boy), much of the information we heard on radio and read in
    the newspapers referred to Hitler as once being named Schickelgruber.
    What did this Sunday paper cite as an origin for this "myth"?
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    Re .35 (Steve):
    
    As I recall the article:
    
    Hitlers Grandfather was called Schicklegruber. He fathered an
    illegitimate son (Hitlers father) but did not become involved
    with the child. Hitlers grandmother then persuaded a relation
    (uncle, I think) to put his name to the birth certificate. His
    name was something something akin to Hitler, but the spelling was
    different. Over the years it was standardised as we know it today.
    Adolf was therefore born and christened Hitler.
    
    The article stated that this story started in the early thirties
    during Hitlers rise to power, when the opposition was trying to
    discredit him. (Pity they didn't succeed)
    
    All the best
    
    George
    

RE: .34,.35,.36
    
    I have heard the same thing from several seemingly reliable sources,
    Steve.  I think it may be in the Dictionary of Misinformation, which
    is well worth having.
    
    					Topher

    re .28
    
    Yes, I believe we're in for a period of "adjustment" also, and that
    the resulting chaos in world institutions and everything else has
    a parallel in physics.  Its called a "phase transition".  It seems
    that when a system goes from a state of less order to one with more
    order (like liquid to solid for instance), there is a period just
    before the transition when there is more disorder in the system
    than the "base state". Graphically, it looks similar to this:
    
      more    |          |----- phase transition
     energy   |          v
              |         ***
              |        *   *                    more energy in a system
              | *******     *                   means more disorder
              |              *
      more    |               *
     order    |                ********
              | -----------------------
                                                                   
    So, the conclusion I make here is that we are in for some real
    upsetting times before the "new age" sets in.
    
    Larry  *.*
            -
             
    

    Thank you for entering that Larry.  It was very interesting.

    re; 36.38
    
    I appreciated your entry, also.
    
    I've heard that the time leading to the New Age will not be as
    upsetting if we, with it, can flow.  If one is not flowing, one
    will experience pain.  If one insists upon hanging on to old ideas
    and ideals that are not useful, one will suffer.

    Re .40 (Meridith):
    
    > ...............  If one insists upon hanging on to old ideas
    >and ideals that are not useful, one will suffer.
    
    However, have a care.  "Ideals that are not useful" puts an interesting
    perspective on how one might view "right" and "wrong."  An "old
    idea," indeed, may even have its utility if applied correctly. 
    When was the last time anmyone seriously considered the Earth the
    center of the universe, with the sun, planets, and stars orbiting
    it?  Nobody, but the "idea" of it so being creates an excellent
    model for mariners doing celestial navigation.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
                          

    Quibbling aside, the next 3+ yrs are gonna be doozies, mes ami(e)s,
    & as Bob 'Dylan' Zimmerman quite trenchantly observed:
    
            " He who is not busy being born is busy dying. " 
                                                          
    One is best advised to aid&abet the transition for Humankind etc.
    everywhere by being mutually-supportive. We're ALL in it together.
    Anyone wishing to be exempted most certainly will be.
    
    -Boleslaw
                                                                     
    

    Read the original;  translations are heavily influenced by hindsight.
    

    Re the 'Age of Aquarius' that was mentioned a few notes back, you
    may or may not have heard of a book (published 85 I believe) called
    "The Aquarian Conspiracy" by Marilyn Ferguson (Paladin books). 
    This goes along the same lines - that there is a slow but sure change
    of thinking taking place, in all aspects of life, moving away from
    religion as such and towards the "New Era" philosophies.  Very
    interesting (and inspiring) reading.
    
    Debs.
    

    
    	   According to old Nosty, a major earthquake was supposed
    	to strike a city in 1988 causing great death and deeeestruction.
    	I'd have to say that Armenia had the killer quake of the 80s,
    	so far.  The only problem is that the prediction was that the
    	quake would shake the Angel's city (presumably L.A.)  This was
    	to be a portent of the first major blow of the third antichrist
    	who will come from the Middle East (Persia).
    
    	   Mikey also predicts that by 1999 WWIII will be well under
    	way.  WWIII is slated to last 27 years by his predictions, and
    	will end with an alliance of the red and white (presumably,
    	US & USSR) against the dark forces of Persia.
    
    	- Greg

    
    RE: .45
    
    Hi Greg,
    
    In the movie "The Man Who Saw Tomorrow", the prediction of the 1988
    earthquake stated in would occur in the "New City", which many 
    translated to mean the New World.  It was not specifically Los
    Angeles.  Also the timing was stated as May, 1988.  This was based
    on certain planetary positions.  However, all the planets mentioned
    in the quatrain were in the correct positions *except* for Mars.
    In May 1988, Mars was in Aquarius, whereas the quatrain had Mars
    in Virgo.  The other planetary positions were Saturn in Capricorn,
    Mercury and Jupiter in Taurus, Venus in Cancer.  Another
    issue that came to my mind was the difference between planetary
    placements in the constellations and planetary placements in the
    zodiac.  There is a difference, and how can we know which one
    Nostradamus was using?  Anyway, I don't believe this planetary
    configuration will occur again for quite a number of years.
    
    Carole

re: .47 

    > It was said that the anti-Christ would reign for 7 years.
    > Sometime he will suffer an atempt on his life but will survive. 
    > Perhaps a bullet scrapping his forehead. 

    Hmmmm.  Regan served for eight years and had an attempt made on
    his life.  If you subtract the time he spent in the toilet from
    his two terms, that probably reduces it to 7 years.  Egads, have
    we seen the anti-Christ???  If so, what does that make Mr.Bush?  

    *<;')

    Terry

    
    
    RE: .48
    
    Hey Terry....great 'smiley' face!
    
    Carole

RE: .49 (Carole)

    Now if you ever pass me on the street, you'll be able to recognize
    me...

    Terry

    
    
    Terry....I'll need just a little more information in order to
    recognize you....
    
    
    
    ....is that your hair or a hat! ;-)
    
    Carole

    Besides the predictions of the Anti-Christ ruler, what else has he
    predicted for the 90's?
    
    Is any of it good news?  Or is it all basically bad news?
    
    Melissa

    While leafing through the New Titles section at the library this
    weekend, I came upon a new book about Nostradamus and his predictions.
    According to this author, Nostradamus predicted that the third
    antichrist( Napoleon and Hitler were the first two) is here( circa
    1990) and his name is either Mabus or Malus!

    What is the name of the New Nostradamus book?  I'd like to check it
    out.  
    
    Melissa

    "What is the name of the new Nostradamus book?" Don't tell me the
    old dog is still publishing......? ;-)
    
    I remember reading a "Staggering predictions of Nostradamus!!!"
    type publication, which claims that the quatrains were pure angrams.
    The one I remember best (I can't remember the quatrain's original
    form) went something like,
    
    "Beware Thatcher and Reagan
    For they shall join the forces
    Of their powerful nations together
    And the world shall be brought to darkness..."
    
    What the article failed to mention was that lots of letters had
    been omitted to acheive this "staggering" revelation. The above
    is not an exact regurtitation of the "translation", but I remember
    that some wag managed to make, from the same letters used, something
    akin to
    
    "Jack Benny shall play for Bruce Springsteen
    And the demon known as Lawrence Welk
    Shall sign for the Boston Red Sox
    Bringing a bag of doughnuts"
    
    I think the second one has more substance..........
    
    Phil
    
    

    Sounds like Zippy
    

    The book is called Nostradamus And The Millenium, and the author is
    John Hogue...
    
    Nostradamus was fond of anagrams and word play... For example, in
    Century 1, Quatrain 8 "Pau,Nay,Loron will be more of fire than of the 
    blood..."
    
    "Nay Pau Loron as an anagram becomes Napaulon Roy- Napoleon the King.
    The spelling for NAPOLEON in Corsican style is Napuleone."A man of fire
    more than of the blood".. could be interpreted as meaning a soldier
    rather than of royal blood..."
    
    From Century 2, Quatrain 62..." Mabus will soon die, then will come
    a horrible slaughter of people and animals,
    At once vengeance is revealed coming from a hundred lands.
    Thirst, and famine when the comet will pass..."
    
    "As an anagram Mabus could be Abu Abbas. Leader of the Palestine
    Liberation Front and allegedly responsible for many brutal raids
    including the attack on the Achille Lauro in 1985, this man could be
    the third Anti-Christ described by Nostradamus. The Achille Lauro
    was hijacked one month before Halley's comet became visible..."
    

    A recently started topic made me search for the previous note on
    Nostradamus.  I found (.47):
    
    >In 1992 a "new contry" will emerge in Europe through unification
    >of many of those contries. Such an unification will probably require

    Sounds eerily like the EC, which is set to officially form in '92,
    right, everyone?
    
    I would have like to read that quatrain, though, as an interpretation
    could/did change the words to fit the present situation.  Something
    to think about, though.
    
    /Greg

I was flipping through my Nostradamus book looking for the reference in
the previous note about a unified country in Europe and came across this
little gem...

Century IV, quatrain 39

Original French                             Translation
---------------                             -----------
Les Rhodiens demanderont secours,           The people of Rhodes will
Par le neglect de ses hoirs delaissee:      demand help, abandoned by
L'Empire Arabe revalera son secours,        neglect of their heirs. The
Par Hesperies la cause redressee.           Arab Empire will assess its
                                            course, its cause revived
                                            again by the West.

Hummmmm.  US Troops in Saudi Arabia???

Terry

    I see the translation as more:
    
    The people of Rhodes will demand help,
    Due to the neglect of their <adjective>� heirs:
    The Arab Empire will re-evaluate its [level of] assistance,
    Due to the Western Islands rectifying the problem.
    
    						Ann B.
    
    � Dilatory?

        In the PEAR::SOAPBOX notes file someone brought up the Nostradomas
        stuff.  Mention was made that the Anti-Christ would wear a blue
        turbin.  Sadam wears a blue hat. supposidly the AC will nuke an
        American city according to ND.  Saddam does not have that capability.
        At least not yet.  Also the Bear (Soviet Union) would be aligned
        with the AC and on the nuking of the New City they would align
        with the Eagle (USA) and defeat the AC.  Well the Bear was aligned
        with Iraq but seems to have pulled out of that deal.  Maybe ND's
        quatrains are a little off.


	I am suprised that more talk of what is going on in the Middle
	east is not going on here.  I have it from one source (a channel)
	that the Anti-Christ has arrived "Saddam Husain"(He is number 2 of 3
	predicted) who number 3 is has not been revealed.

	If I missed a note where this is being discussed then please point
	me there.

	Steve

    
    Re.62
    
    Steve,
    
    Try note 1328.  Though there isn't much going on there either.
    
    Cindy

re: .-2

	> I am suprised that more talk of what is going on in the Middle
	> east is not going on here.  I have it from one source (a channel)
	> that the Anti-Christ has arrived "Saddam Husain"(He is number 2 of 3
	> predicted) who number 3 is has not been revealed.

        Mr. N predicted three (according to the translations). The first
        was Napoleon (NA PA LEON - or some such name per ND) and Adolf
        Hitler (Histler per ND).  He didn't give a name to the third as
        I recall.

        Terry

That's right.  Nostrodamus called Hitler, Hister.  The third was identified as
only wearing a blue turbin.

    Re .62:
    
    > ... Nostrodamus called Hitler, Hister. ...
    
    "Hister," as I recall, was an alias for the Danube River.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    re: .65 (Steve)
    
    Unless it was you I heard it from!
    
    Mary

	In the quatrain in which Hister is mentioned, I recall that
	it claims "Hister" will overtake the mighty "Germaines".
	In which case, replacing "Hister" with a river doesn't make 
	sense...

	I'll look it up - if I can remamber...

	Terry

RE: .69 (Terry)

    Before you can say things do or don't make sense you have to be sure
    that the translation you have read was done by someone objective and
    expert in the dialect in which they were written, and who gives
    alternate translations when a phrase or passage is ambiguous.

    In any case, a river overtaking someone sounds like a flood to me --
    perfectly sensible and a reasonable thing for someone to predict who
    was in the predictin' business.

				    Topher

re: .70 (Topher)

    Good point about the river.  I hadn't thought about that.  The author
    of the book (can't recall her name) is a professor at Oxford University
    in England and has been studying Nostradamus for most of her life. The
    publisher claims she is qualified in the translation of the archaic French 
    that Nostradamus wrote in.  The book is actually fairly objective and
    contains both the original French as well as her translations.  Most of
    her attention in the book goes into events that have happened that she
    feels were predicted by ND.  There are a number of quatrains that she
    confesses she can't make sense of.  She's translated them but she
    dosen't know what they may be referring to.  Only two quatrains have
    actual date references so most of her "future" analysis doesn't point
    to specific dates.  I find it pretty interesting to browse through but
    tough to read from cover to cover since it bounces all over history.
    It has a pretty good index so looking things up is fairly easy.
    BTW - I don't find this book to be doomish-n-gloomish like some of the
    others I've seen.  To me, the book comes off as the result of
    some serious, objective research on Nostradamus (it includes a brief
    history of ND) and isn't at all sensationalistic.

    As far as ND's ability to predict - beats me what his intentions were
    but it sure is interesting stuff. :-)

    Terry

    I recently bought the book "The Final Prophecies of Nostradamus" by
    Erika Cheetham, and agree that it is difficult to understand how
    the quatrains are attributed to certain events in history, given
    that there are no actual dates on the majority of them.  Also, the
    quatrains don't necessarily refer to just one event; each line may
    refer to completely unrelated events.  The author gives an explanation
    of her interpretations in each case, but not how she came to tie it in
    with a particular event.  Also, I think her interpretations are biassed
    towards belief, because she mentions something in the foreward about
    going with a TV crew to ND's burial place, and on saying "This is the
    place of ND's bones" a huge clap of thunder sounded.  So if she
    believes in ND's prophecies, her interpretations are bound to be biased
    towards this.  Has anyone else read this book and what do you think?

The current UN resolution against Iraq is 664 not 666.

Steve

U.S. policy makers don't have much memory and try to play by their own rules?
U.S. policy is totally screwed up. We make lot of noise about oil
crisis in the middle east and blame Arabs to be protective or controlled
by dictator such as Saddam Hussein while at the same time we protect our
high technology from third world nations. There is nothing wrong with
Saddam controlling oil prices by attacking Kuwait. What a big deal? After all,
it is U.S. who nourished this lunatic for the last 10 Years and suddenly 
discovered that he is lunatic when he attacks Kuwait? Our support for
world wide human right is not great either. Syria massacared 50,000 his
own people. His support for U.S. policy in Iraq-Kuwait is praised a lot. We
blame third world countries for using chemical gas, while we were the
first to use nuclear weapon against our enemy. What is the difference?

We have always supported dictators (such as Marcos, Zia, Noreiga, Saddam
Hussein, etc) as long as they don't turn against us. Our support for
democratic countries is were poor.

re:     <<< Note 36.75 by ELMST::VERMA "Virendra, MRO4-3/H10, DTN 297-5913" >>>
                              -< Who is lunatic? >-

Yep, I agree.  Definitely double standards in U.S. policy.

		Dave

    The U.S. was built on double standards.  They are part of the
    foundation.
    
    Mary

Thanks. Just wanted to confirm.

Not sure if this is the right place to put it. China has drowned about
1 million baby girls so far in order to control its population. When will
the civilized world awaken before it is too late. Or is it OK to do that
according to our double standard? Is double standard morally good in a
civilized world? This shows how Super Powers are so weak to raise voice
against such atrocities going on quietly elsewhere.

- Virendra

    
    Double standard is never morally good.
    
    What this shows is that the Super Powers are no better than most other
    governments, worse than others.
    
    The world is changing.  This too will change.
    
    Mary

Re:  36.75  ELMST::VERMA 

  >There is nothing wrong with Saddam controlling oil prices by attacking 
  >Kuwait. What a big deal? 

If it ain't wrong for Saddam, then the U.S. should have done it first.

    The Chinese have been drowning baby girls - since I was in grammer
    school.  The nuns used to collect pennies from us to buy the babies. I
    used to wonder how many babies we bought turned out to be serious
    members of the communist party.  So, you see, there is nothing new
    under the sun.  (P.S. I'm a sexy senior citizen!)  Ellin
    

RE: .80

> If it ain't wrong for Saddam, then the U.S. should have done it first.

	That's exactly what U.S. has been doing in that region for a
	a long time. My point is that why make so much noise about 10% oil
	which Iraq has grabbed by attacking Kuwait. 

	It seems that there is no notion of right or wrong in double 
	standard-like policy. I have no problem with double standard policy. 
	But, is an average U.S. citizen aware of it? I don't think 75% public 
	support for Bush's policy indicate that an average American 
	understands where the policy of our government will lead to. The 
	piecemeal policy is not going to last long (British could hold it 
	for almost 400 years, I will be surprized if U.S. can hold even 
	100 years). There is already so much hatred against us. The root 
	cause of it is our confused policy. If we are so much proud of our 
	stick, let us use it once for all and show the world we mean 
	business. If we are law abiding by nation, let us respect other 
	countries by keeping away from their internal politics. Why should 
	we be champion of democracy if we openly support autocarcy and 
	dictatorship. A confused policy for a nation like U.S. will not 
	straighten things out.

RE: .82

	I don't think calling "lunatic" will defuse the possibility of
	war. Truth is bitter. You believe it or not, the hostages card
	seems to be stopping the war for the time being.
	

A_concerned_naturalized_U.S._citizen.

Re:  .83

The point being that attacking another nation for profit is not the thing
to do and should never be condoned.  I learned very only on that it was
wrong to hit.  Perhaps I missed your intent.

Collis

I think the key thing is exploitation whether it be by attacking a nation
and installing your favorite govt. or divide the masses and entice few elites,
or attack and annex. I don't see much difference from a moral perspective.
Either all techniques are right or all are wrong. I think if Arabs would have
united without annexing each other, U.S. would have faced the same situation
as it is now in today after Kuwait invasion. U.S. is not there because of the
fact that they have love affair with Arabs or Sheikhs. They are there beacause
of oil. China has annexed Tibet. I didn't hear much noise about it.

    
    So what has this got to do with Nostradamus?    Perhaps another
    conference would be more appropriate for this discussion.  Try
    VOGON::ARABIC.
    
    

    The Great Randi has just written a book about
    Nostradamus. Of course it is essentially a
    'debunking'. However I think that Randi is
    respectful of Nostradamus as a very capable
    person and a 'survivor'. I haven't read the book
    - only a longish review in the 'New Scientist'.

    It's probably required reading for Nostradamus
    freaks.
    
John D.

    re: .87
    
    Do you have the citation?
    
    Joel
    

    Re: .-1, Joel

    Yes, I'll try to remember to bring it in tomorrow.

    John D.

    Finally,

    the review was in 'New Scientist' 10-November-1990.

    the book is 'The Mask of Nostradamus' by James Randi,
    published by Scribners, pp256, $19.95.

    It's obtainable in the UK from:
	Mike Hutchinson Books,
	10 Crescent View,
	Loughton,
	Essex IG10 4PZ
    (�15.95 plus �1 for postage)
    
John D.

    re: .90
    
    I just deleted a previous reply of mine, entered this morning,
    because I picked up the book at lunch.
    
    1/2 hour perusal indicates that only a relatively small
    portion of the book is devoted to debunking Nostradamus.
    Looks more like a biography than anything else, an attempt
    to understand Nostradamus, the man and the myth.
    
    Things like: what did he actually write?  There are apparently
    no original manuscripts left and the various sources of
    course vary in quality and accuracy.  
    
    Anyway, it look very intersting.  Thanks for the tip!
    
    Joel
    

    A forced night-long stay at the office accelerated Mr. Randi's
    book to the top of my book list and, since it isn't very long,
    I was able to finish it.
    
    I think it would be worthwhile to check out of the library or
    even to pick up in paperback.  But, overall, I'd have to give
    it only a C+.  I am perhaps spoiled by biographers like Richard
    Ellman, but I found Randi's book to be somewhat rambling and
    not well organized. 
    
    As was clear from a brief examination, only a relatively small
    portion of the book is devoted to the examination of specific
    "prophecies."  Most is devoted to the study of Nostradamus's life
    and mileiu and is fairly interesting.  Randi also examines exactly
    how Nostradamian myth has developed.
    
    One part I found interesting and amusing was Randi's "Rules
    of the Prophecy Game" which are:
    
    1. Make lots predictions, and hope that some come true.  If they
    do, point to them with pride.  Ignore the others.
    2. Be very vague and ambiguous.  Definite statements can be
    wrong, but "possible" items can always be reinterpreted.
    Use modifiers like these whenever possible:
    	I feel that...
    	I see a picture of...
    	It might be that...
    	Perhaps...
    	Look for...
    	I'm getting...
    3. Use a lot of symbolism.  Be metaphorical, using images
    of animals, names, initials.  They can be fitted to many
    situations by the believers.
    4. Cover the situation both ways and select the winner as the
    "real" intent of your statement.
    5. Credit God with your success, and blame yourself for any
    incorrect interpretations of His divine messages.  This way,
    detractors have to fight God.
    6. No matter how often you're wrong, plow ahead.  The Believers
    won't notice your mistakes, and will continue to follow your
    every word.
    7. Predict catastrophes; they are more easily remembered and
    more popular by far.
    8. When predicting _after_ the fact, but representing that the
    prophecy _preceded_ the events, be wrong just enough to
    appear uncertain about the exact details; too good a prophecy
    is suspect.
    
    [foregoing reproduced without permission]
    
    Randi, of course, proceeds to demonstrate how each and every
    one of the above guidelines applies to Nostradamus.
    
    Still, as I say, the book is a tad disappointing, and I would
    definitely not recommend shelling out for the hardback version.
    
    Joel
       

    re: .92
    
    I KNEW you were going to write that, Joel.  ;-)
    
    	Toddy

    re: .93
    
    Good one!
    
    Joel
    

    
    Sorry to jump into this note so late but after browsing (trying to get
    up to date in this conference :-) I wondered if anyone could tell me
    what sort of configuration the planets were in (either relative to the
    zodiac or to the constellations) around the time of the Californian
    earthquake in October 1989 ? Alternatively, what was the complete set
    as specified by N. please ?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Frank

From the _Hot Dots_ Section of the Boston Phoenix:

      *Nostradamus: the Man who Saw Tomorrow.*

      Based on the mental exploits of a 16th-century
      astrologer and seer named Mike of Notre Dame.  He
      predicted everything___ Napolean, Hitler, the _Lost in
      Space reunion tour.  You name it___ he warned us.
      Spelling was not his strong suit, but once you figure
      out that he menat Winston Churchill when he wrote,
      say, "Clarence Carter," it all falls into place.
      Includes supposed predictions about the Middle East,
      so tune in to find out who's going to win the Gulf
      War.
    
    In the Boston area, Wednesday, February 20, 1991,
    ch 4 (NBC)  9-10PM.

>      Spelling was not his strong suit, but once you figure
>      out that he menat Winston Churchill when he wrote,
>      say, "Clarence Carter," it all falls into place.
    
    I believe there is a correspondence table to this effect built into
    a forthcoming product ...
    
    	DECPROPHECY
    
    Edit your document, spell check it, and find out what it *really* means
    and what will happen as a result of it, all on one shot !  I wish I had 
    it now when I write these silly Notes.  This on-line Tarot deck is
    murder to use.  
    
    	Todd

  Re .97 (Todd)

  > I believe there is a correspondence table to this effect built into
  > a forthcoming product ...
  >
  >     DECPROPHECY                                                    

    Funny you should say that ... been looking at your crystal balls again ?
  Anyway, running the prototype (X6.66) over your note produces the following
  output from the front-end analyser :

  > Edit your document, spell check it, and find out what it *really* means  
                        ^
  %DECP-W-WIZDET, magic found when grammar expected at line 10

  > Edit your document, spell check it, and find out what it *really* means  
                                            ^                ^        ^
  %DECP-W-BUDDHA, possible introspective loop at line 10

  > and what will happen as a result of it, all on one shot !  I wish I had  
             ^
  %DECP-W-NOTCERT, clause too decisive for notesfile at line 11

  > and what will happen as a result of it, all on one shot !  I wish I had  
                                                ^        ^
  %DECP-W-WEKNOW, reference to popular knowledge at line 11
  -DECP-I-IOERROR, spellong mostakes corrected durong parsong

  > it now when I write these silly Notes.  This on-line Tarot deck is       
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  %DECP-F-AARRGGHH, ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

  The prototype failed at this point ... my guess is either the presence of
  absolute truth is so unexpected in Notes that it didn't have a suitable
  data-type declared or else it just died laughing :-)

  Frank

        Last night on French television there was a programme called Envoy�
        Sp�cial, part of which was about chemical warfare.  They showed a
	photographs and film of wounds caused by chemicals used in the
	Iran-Iraq war.

	Then they showed a 1987 shot of the Iraqi army marching past some
	officers and other dignitaries.  This shot was on the screen for
	around a second, and all that I took in was Saddam Hussein, wearing
	a blue turban.  Not a beret, not a cap, but a middle-eastern style
	turban in a colour that was definitely blue - a sort of mid blue,
	bluer than airforce blue but not vivid.

	My question is, did he read the book before or after deciding to
	wear that headgear?

	Delia

    re-.1
    Maybe he hasen't read it at all and simply felt like wearing blue that
    day.
    
    -j

>>          <<< Note 36.57 by CRISTA::MAYNARD "FAMOUS BLUE RAINCOAT" >>>
>>    
>>    "As an anagram Mabus could be Abu Abbas. Leader of the Palestine
>>    Liberation Front and allegedly responsible for many brutal raids
>>    including the attack on the Achille Lauro in 1985, this man could be
>>    the third Anti-Christ described by Nostradamus. The Achille Lauro
>>    was hijacked one month before Halley's comet became visible..."
    
  That's interesting...  Both the PLO and Halley's comet are in the news
  today.  Baker says we're no longer talking to the PLO and now in the
  ASTRONOMY conference I find the following:

                <<< LDP::DJA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]ASTRONOMY.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Astronomical discussions >-
================================================================================
Note 143.3                Halley's - follow-on studies                    3 of 3
ADVAX::KLAES "All the Universe, or nothing!"         40 lines  11-MAR-1991 15:10
                      -< Comet Halley is spewing debris >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 9 Mar 91 00:59:57 GMT
From: pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.
      nasa.gov!mahendo!jato!mars.jpl.nasa.gov!baalke@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  
      (Ron Baalke)
Subject: Halley's Comet article
 
New York Times -- 3/7/91
"Dust Cloud Erupts on Halley's Comet"
 
"Five years after a much-heralded pass near Earth, an immense dust cloud 
has erupted from Halley's comet, making it hundreds of times brighter." 
 
The Times reports that the potato-shaped, ice-ball core of Halley's
comet had been very faint up until last month when a University of
Hawaii astronomer, Dr. Karen Meech, sighted the new apparition. 
 
According to the Times, Meech noticed that the comet had sprouted a
cloud extending up to 180,000 miles from the icy core of the comet and
more than 1,000 times brighter than should be the case for an object
so far from the sun. The Times quotes Meech as saying "to have something 
turn off and suddenly brighten up at this distance is unheard of." 
 
The story further quotes Smithsonian planetary expert Dr. Brian
Marsden as saying "this is much farther than anything we've observed
before."  The article says Marsden and fellow colleagues at the
Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics noted this will be very
hard to explain given the distance from the sun of the comet. 
 
The story concludes by citing comments made by astronomer Meech that
other comets have produced extended clouds like this but that the
other occurrences have been of a continuous cloud, not the sudden
appearance of one as happened with Halley's comet. 

      ___    _____     ___
     /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|      Ron Baalke         | [email protected]
     | | | |  __ \ /| | | |      Jet Propulsion Lab | Is it mind over matter,
  ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |___   M/S 301-355        | or matter over mind?
 /___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /|  Pasadena, CA 91109 | Never mind.
 |_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                      | It doesn't matter.
 

  
  Re .-1
  
  "Boring out here isn't it ?"
  "Just do your job and slow down a bit will you ?"
  "Oh come on, this is vacuum, nothingness, gap between celestial bodies"
  "Oh yeah ? Well just watch out for that comet over there !"
  "What comet ?"
  
  *S*P*L*A*T*
  
  > Five years after a much-heralded pass near Earth, an immense dust cloud
  > has erupted from Halley's comet, making it hundreds of times brighter.
                                                                          
  Frank

    
    
    Or...  stay behind the comet, guys.. and they'll never see us.
    Put those lights on before we get within sighting distance.
    
    :-)

This note's been inactvie for a while but....

re: anagram stuff  and Mabus

Mabus - in the mirror says = sudam 

do we know it was written as Mabus or mabbus or mabbas

Does anyone know the correct spelling of his *full* name???

Do the letters of his name = 666 ???  Saddam Mister Husein

    I'm not gonna say much on this topic because I don't really know all
    that much on it except that what I've read is all and I meen all of
    what I've read about his predictions are comeing true just look at the
    flooding and the earthquakes and all the stuff thats going on now days
    and you tell me that it's just a qouincidence (sp) or not. Its about to
    end in about 10 - 15 yrs i think. For most of us at least.
    
    
    				scared of the trueth
    
    					John

    There were thousands of predictions made by the guy and someone only
    bothered to point out the ones that seemed to be true.  What about all
    the predictions he made that never came true.  They've been predicting
    the end of the world for hundreds and HUNDREDS of years.  This is
    nothing new.
    
    I'm not into the "REPENT REPENT THE END IS NEAR!"
    
    I used to be scared.  Then I talked to my mother.  She said the same
    things were going around when she was a little girl.  There were major
    earthquakes and floods in the 60's, 70's, and much much earlier!  What
    about the great earthquake that nearly destroyed San Francisco?
    
    I talked to my grandmother.  She said the "end of the world is coming"
    happened when she was even a little girl.  How'd you like to be around
    when WW I and WW II was here and the invention of the atomic bomb.  She
    said they all decided that the Biblical reference to the end of th
    world being by fire made them "KNOW" that it as going to be the atomic
    bomb that was going to do the world in and it was going to happen in
    the 40's-50's.
    
    There was a show on the other night that was talking about the fact
    that a lot of the people whose houses were destroyed by flood never
    bothered to get flood insurance.  They knew the risks, but they decided
    to build anyway, and now they are going to collect hundreds of
    thousands of dollars in aid from the government because they decided to
    gamble.  They interviewed people who had been through the same thing in
    the early 70's and they built again, in the same dangerous place.  They
    know the risks, and yet they build there.  I don't see anything so
    supernatural about that.
    
    It's the same with the earthquakes.  In college I took a geology class. 
    I forget the numbers exactly, but there are dozens of schools for
    hanicapped, hospitals, and public places built right on the San Andreas
    fault line.  San Francisco Bay itself...they brought in tons of dirt
    and packed it against the already existing shoreline and then built on
    it.  It is NOT STABLE GROUND!  The chances of an earthquake causing
    liquifaction (where the ground shakes so hard it literally turns to
    liquid) are immense and almost guaranteed.  Everyone will run screaming
    if that ever happened, yelling that the end is near, all the
    predictions are true!
    
    Listen, if you have someone living in an unafe area and something bad
    happens, are you going to blame it on some supernatural prediction? 
    Some force of nature?  I'd say that's just plain stupidity.  You're
    almost asking for it if you build your house on a fault line.
    
    My brother and his wife recently moved their family to Michigan
    from California.  They told me stories that made me wonder ... th
    stairs coming away from the wall, cupboard doors opening and all their
    dishes smashing to the floor.  The refridgerator shaking away from the
    wall, etc etc.  They got smart...MOVE!
    
    It reminds me of a child who builds a sand castle on a beach, close to
    the water, and then expects it to be there the next morning.  The tides
    come in every night and an adult may have tried to warn the child to
    build the castle farther back on the beach or else the tide would come
    in and wash it away.  But no, the sand down near the water is much
    better for building sand castles, because it's wet and compact.  The
    adult may suggest that the child bring some water up to the sand
    farther up the beach but the child is lazy and says no, he wants to be
    near the water where it's better.  The next morning the child comes
    down to find the castle has been washed away and yet he'll get angry at
    the water.  It's all nature's fault for ruining his sand castle!  
    
    The people that build close to the water in California...the gorgeous
    million dollar homes that overlook Malibu beach...did you ever see
    them?  One earthquake and WHAM!  They all fall down!
    
    I don't think there is one superstitious thing about it!  If anything,
    they should predict the suptidity of humanity!  They'd be RIGHT ON
    EVERY TIME!
    
    

    Have you ever read the original Nostradamus preditions?  They are so
    cryptic, vague, and hard to understand that interpreters can say
    they mean almost anything.  Interpreters pick and choose the ones they
    want.  None of the predictions have clear dates.  Does prediction X
    apply to 1500, 1700, or 2000?  The interpreter makes this decision.
    
    I recommend that you read them in the original (translated if
    necessary) before you put your faith in the interpretations.  You'd be
    as skeptical as I am.
    
    Laura

    Prophesy is perhaps most compelling in that respect.  Really 'good' 
    prophets, unlike mediocre astrologers and numerologists, make fairly 
    _specific_ predictions, and then end up with some startingly close hits 
    and some hillarious misses.    On the other hand, some of the modern
    interpretations of Nostradamus' predictions are very specific
    applications of previously very general predictions.  There are even some
    numerical codes around for using his words to generate further
    specific predictions.  Martin Gardner has written some interesting
    articles in the past reviewing these, I think.
    
>    They've been predicting
>    the end of the world for hundreds and HUNDREDS of years.  This is
>    nothing new.
    
    In fact, the year 1000 A.D. was one of the first and best recorded 
    examples of widespread doom hysteria around a specific date,
    (cf. millenialism).   
    
    On the plus side, there is usually a widespread elation and relief
    when a prohesized final catastrophe doesn't occur, and that can be
    a constructive force.  And the thoughts of doom can sometimes help to
    focus people's minds on beneficial things, depending on the person.
    
    A number of interesting social trends came out of the doom and gloom
    perspective around the 2 world wars, including a lot of the
    'spiritual' movements that are popular today.   The modern emphasis
    on 'saving the planet' is to a great extent still a response to
    the horrors of world war, which brought the frailty and complexities of 
    modern life into sharp focus.   
    
    						kind regards,
    
    						todd

Like some other folks of my ethnic background, I've been able to make a
pretty penny thanks to the doomsayers. Folks who are persuaded that the
end is near don't mind parting with their belongings for a pittance.
For example, you can pick up a practically new car for beans from
somebody who believes that they won't be needing it, or anything else,
in a couple of months. Then resell it, or even sell it back to them, at
a handsome profit.

We've been doing it for centuries, and the prospects are better than ever.

    Just an additional note here:
    
    Name one year in history when one of the following DIDN'T happen:
    
    (Just one year)
    
    Earthquake
    Flood
    Tidal Wave
    Hurricane
    Tornado
    Volcanic Erruption
    Tropical Storms/Winds
    
    If you think about it...somewhere in the world there is always some
    sort of disaster wreaking havoc on some civilization.  How many times
    did Pompeii make history?
    
    The volcanoes on Hawaii become active and inactive at intervals. 
    People in the midwest know that tornadoes are as much a part of their
    life as hurricanes/tropical storms are to Floridians and coastal
    peoples.  
    
    Has anyone seen the theory behind Pangeaea?  (sp?)  How would you have
    liked to have been around when the continents were splitting apart?
    
    All the talk of gloom and doom lately is inspired, it seems, by the
    fact that these disasters are hitting a bit closer to home.  When we
    hear of people dying in Japan and/or 3rd world countries we acknowledge
    the tragedy of it, but we don't run around in hysteria saying the world
    is coming to an end.  
    
    btw:  If any of you are convinced that the end of the world is upon us,
          send me mail off line.  I will discuss the location of where you
          can send all your worldly goods.  After all, you won't be needing 
          them, but I could  use a VCR, etc.
    
    ;^)
    
    

RE: .112

>    Has anyone seen the theory behind Pangeaea?  (sp?)  How would you have
>    liked to have been around when the continents were splitting apart?

    Err... I am around when the continents "were" splitting apart.  For
    example, Europe and North America are still seperating, the Red Sea
    is a continental rift, as is a lake in Russia (the name escapes me,
    but it is the deepest lake in the world, and contains some significant
    fraction, like 1/5, of all the world's liquid fresh water), while
    some theories point at Yellowstone Park in the US as a site where the
    process is just starting.

    (Not that I disagree with your basic point, its just that rifting is
    so slow.  I would point at the Yukatan Meteor which probably did the
    final deed to the dinosaurs, or the flooding of the Mediteranian Basin
    -- which occurred when there were hominids around -- as an example.)

                                            Topher

    Did I hear someone cry, "The sky is falling!"?

    BTW if anyone could predict the future with any form of accuracy there
    would be no horse races.

    Jamie.

    
      I don't know about how true all of Nostradamus' interpitations are
    but if The Pope dies on Oct. 24,1995 I will be a believer. I will 
    also be one scared S.O.B.
    Scott
    

    So If I nip round the Vatican and shoot the Pope dead on Oct 24 1995, I
    will convince you that Nostradamus was predicting the future?

    Jamie.

    	No, Jamie, he's scheduled to be in NYC that day addressing the UN.
    Maybe he could come on the David Letterman show that night at 11:30PM
    live!  He could survive until midnight Oct 25th on live TV defying the
    prediction. We could call it: Stupid Pope Tricks!   BillM

    Given the fact that all of his so called prophecies are very well
    hidden and widely open to interpretation he is bound to have a good hit
    rate when viewed in hindsight. It is incredibly easy to twist the logic
    round and make his prophecies fit the facts after they happen.
    Unfortunately when it comes to predicting the future his track record
    is pitiful.

    Jamie.