Conference hydra::dejavu

There are several possibilities, depending upon your perspective.  The ancient
Egyptians (Khemites) believed that people had more than one "soul"; a principal
one being the _ka_ or body-double.  It often visited a corpse (or possibly place
of death) after the _bu_ or ego-soul departed.  If you follow that line of 
reasoning, you might have encountered a _ka_.  Anotjer thought is one Rollo
Ahmed posits: the "etheric" body of an indivisual rather than transmigrating
to the appropriate "plane" can be "left behind" as a residual presence in
certain traumatic deaths.  This "body" would be an imperfect replication 
of the associated individual, and reflect the basest part of the persons.
Spiritualists would say you have a plain old ghost.  Some demonologists would
posit that you might have a minor demon that somehow was connected to the 
soldier in question.

What's interesting is that you seemed to be a condit for this "presence,"
whatever it was.  This implies that you might have a special ability to
detect paranormal phenomena, to the point of resonance with others in your
presence.  From your description, therefore, I suspect you're what's known
as a "psychic sensitive," a fairly rare gift.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

The concept of haunting fascinates me.  I've read several theories relative
to the 'reasons' for a haunt, but can't really decide.  There are a few
well-known haunted houses in this area, but they are not always accessible.
 I don't know what their status is right now.

Several years ago, I had the opportunity to walk around the Gen. Jonathan
Moulton home in Hampton, NH.  It was for sale at the time, but I never asked
to be let inside (chicken?).  On a purely intuitive level, I couldn't detect
anything there, though.

One other experience I had was a bit stranger.  I was sleeping on a couch
at my in-laws, and I distinctly remember being awakened by someone I didn't
know, and couldn't really *see* in a conventional sense.  Still, I know what
he looked like - old man, beaked nose, wearing a baseball cap and an old
sweater, unbuttoned down the front.  I mentioned this to a few people, and
got mostly strange reactions!  My mother-in-law did confirm that an old man
had died in that room, but he was a previous occupant, and she had no knowledge
of him other than his name.

Still kinda gives me the spooks when I *really* think about it!

BTW: this happened about 15 years ago, and *nothing* like that has happened
since.  Weird.

Sandy

I know a couple who are the present owners of the Gov. William Plumer
house in Epping, NH.  It is a house that was rebuilt on the foundation
of the original house after the original burned down a number of years
ago.  It is a large house that was used as a nursing home in the early
1970's.  A couple of years ago my son and a buddy "house-sat" in the
house during one winter when the current owner was out of town for an
extended period.  He is a down-to-earth 28 year old, but told us that they
never ventured above the main floor after dark because of the strange
noises they heard coming from the 2nd or 3rd floor at night.

The present owners of the house took a series of "before" photos in the
house before they undertook remodeling.  In one of the photos taken in
the study which contains and old, old desk, there was a very clear image
of a man seated in front of the desk.  I have seen the photo and I have
been a professional photographer and have no reason to believe that
"trickery" was involved.  A careful study of the romm and the conditions
at the time the photo was made reveals no logical explanation for the
image.  The only window in the room faces north.

An interesting thing about this is that I know what Wm. Plumer looked
like and the man in the photo is not him.
						Bill

It would be interesting to find out whether the phenomenon is transient
or recurring.  Have others reported it?  Are there other photos?  It
would be worth investigating whether the noises are actually hard or are
*perceived* to be heard (e.g. can they be picked up by a tape recorder?).

The whole "haunted house" or "haunted location" phenomenon has been
fascinating people for centuries.

As noted in .1, there are many explanations for it.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

It *does* sound like something worth investigating seriously.

-SK

WHO YOU GONNA CALL............ GHOSTBUSTERS!!

sorry... couldn't resist..
toni

RE: .4 & .5

Steve:

Unfortunately the present owners are not interested in investigating what
is going on.  They are reluctant to even show the photo to friends, apparently
due to concern for what people may think of them.

Another interesting point is that they disclaim any activity, such as the
noises, etc. so they discount the photo as a simple "fluke" of photography.

We have not told them about our son's experience because they seem to like
the house very much and we don't want to plant any "seeds" that may
influence that.

The prior owner was a rather eccentric woman who spent very little time
in the house.  She claimed to be a Plumer descendant and she did
experience unexplained noises and on at least one occasion of seeing
"someone" who was not there.  The couple that she bought the house from
sold it because of the wife's very "uncomfortable" feelings when she was
in the house, especially when she was alone.

Toni:

I don't know what Ghostbusters could do for the house, but I agree with
Steve that it appears to be something that would be of interest to check
out.  Such an investigation would be difficult unless the "noises, etc."
were continuing on a regular basis; but at the moment the house seems
to be quiet - at least, if we can believe the present occupants - whom
I have no reason to doubt.
				Bill

re .6:

Even if the conditions aren't regular, it would be interesting to determine
whether there is any periodicity to the manifestations (e.g., tied to lunar
phases).  If the manifestations are real, there is probably some pattern to
them; even cats and dogs adhere to a(n often self-imposed) pattern.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

I took a "course" at college one year that dealt with alot of occult
stuff and hauntings in particular. The instructor was a physic researcher
(and DJ for a local station) and had a number of good stories to tell
involving local (to Worcester) houses and locations. One think I do remember
is that the apparition can be "tied" to a particular piece of furniture
as well as a whole house. In the previous example, it might have been the
desk or chair that the "ghost" was "tied" to. If the furniture was removed
in the course of the remodeling, it would make sense that things have been
quiet since then.

DDA

p.s. it was a very interesting course, even the parts I was skeptical about.

    In my college days one of the girls on my floor told of her sisters
    experience in her new house:
    
      Sometimes they'd come home and the lights would be on (but noone's
    home), and they knew they hadn't turned them on before they left.
    Or, they'd be watching t.v. and the blender would go on in the
    kitchen...no one in the kitchen (just she and her husband lived
    there).  
    
       One afternoon she went up to her room and she saw a woman in
    a slip or nightdress brushing her long black hair.  She said
    something to her and she disappeared.  She recounted this to
    her neighbor and was told, "oh, that's Mary Grady.  She died
    there."  
    
    --janice

I'm a first time Notes user, I have just learned about Notes today.  Anyway, I 
got interested in this note and thought I'd tell you about a weird experience 
happening to myself.

My husband and I live in a small house in Brookfield.  This house originally 
was just one large room which had a Kitchen in it and a bedroom.  There was 
also a porch off the kitchen part of this room/small house.  My husband's 
grandfather speat his last few years there.  It was owned by his grandfather.  
Anyway, because he was getting unable to care for himself, my husband would 
trot over (he and his parents lived accross the field) and help his 
grandfather with whatever he needed.  Eventually his grandfather got so sick 
he had to be brought to a nursing home and died.  The house was unoccupied for 
some time.  As my husband grew older, he had talked to his father (who 
now owned the house) and told him that he wanted to live there.  They 
decided that together they would remodle the house and add on 3 new rooms to 
make it larger.  

Then my husband met me and we eventually married and moved into the house 
together.  We lived there for almost 2 years then moved away and eventually 
ended up back at the house (buying it off of his father).  

The strange thing about this is that alot of the time when I am in the part of 
this house that his grandfather lived in, I sometimes feel a cold chill and 
really feel like someone is watching me.  I really know someone is there but I 
never see or hear anything strange.  Just feel like someone is watching me.  
Sometimes it freaks me out so bad, I have to leave the kitchen and cross over 
to the living room (the new part) and the feeling leaves me but  if I turn and 
look into the kitchen I feel that someone is looking at me from the kitchen 
into the living room.  I get the same feeling sometimes when I'm in the 
bedroom (which is my son's room now) which was part of the house when his 
grandfather lived there.  Sometimes I feel like I'm being watched over to make 
sure things are ok with us and sometimes I feel like I'm being spied upon.  My 
husband never feels this nor does my husband's father but they both believe me 
and say that it is probably my husband's grandfather's spirit and not to be 
afraid because they know he wouldn't hurt me. Also, my son says that he 
sometimes feels "watched" and he won't go to sleep at night with the light 
off.  Sometimes he wakes up at night and comes into my room and says he's 
having bad dreams.  Because he's only 8 years old this could just be something 
he's going through.  

When I'm downstairs of the old part of this house doing the laundry, only when 
I'm standing in the part of the cellar where the house existed when his 
grandfather lived there I'll get the same erie feeling but if I cross over to 
the part of the cellar where it was added on, the feeling is gone.  Once I 
cross back over, the feeling comes back. 

To add to this when he was alive (my husband's grandfather) he would insist 
that he would get visits from his past relatives who died before him.  He 
would tell my husband story's about which one would visit him at night.  

I'm wondering if I'm bonkers or if there could be someone there wheather it's 
my husband's grandfather or his other relatives.  Can anyone elaborate on this 
for me?  Does anyone know about these things or had similar things happen to 
them?  This has been going on now for 9 years, and I've learned to live with 
it but it would help to live with it a little easier if I knew more about it.  


/Colleen

    Here is what you do.
    
    You put a blindfold on, and have your husband move you around the
    house in such a way as you do not know where you are.  This may
    be difficult (eg: because of furniture, floor coverings, stairs
    etc.)
    
    In each place, (and he should do it in random order, and do each
    place repeatedly), record whether or not you feel "watched".
    
    After having done the above, correlate where you feel watched with
    where you were in the house.
    
    If there is a strong correlation between that and where grandpa
    lived, then either there really is something externally real to this,
    or you (subconciously maybe) knew where you were.
    
    If there isn't, then its just your subconcious playing tricks with
    you.
    
    
    I wish people in this file would do a lot more experimentation when
    they "sense" things.  For example: several people have reported
    that particular houses feel very evil to them.  Well, jump in a
    car with a friend, blindfolded, and have him park you at random
    outside half a dozen including the one that felt evil and see if
    you can detect it without seeing it!
    
    There is a lot of confusion between internally "sensing" things,
    and external things triggering your senses in this file.
    
    
    /Bevin

    RE: .10
    
    Since you say you only feel the presence in the original parts of
    the house, and not the added parts, perhaps it is just an extention
    of Grandfather's aura, which was left in the house, rather than
    the presence of your husband's Grandfather himself.  This would
    works something like the psychics who take an item belonging to
    a person, and tell you about the person.
    
    Elizabeth

    	How are dogs and other animals able to sense presences we humans
    cannot?
    
    	And what exactly do they detect?
                       
    	Larry
    

    Re .11, .13:
    
    The suggestions made about blindfolded detection make sense if one
    of the following conditions exists:
    
    1) The "menace" is confined to a specific locality;
    2) It's of a reasonably permanent nature; and
    3) It's detectable at some distance, say up to 20 feet.
    
    If it's sporadic and one has to be nearby, well, then the test will
    fail.
    
    I cannot fault any attempt to systematize detection of a "presence."
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    I discussed this interesting development in this note with my husband,
    who is heavily into aerobic home renovation and knows a lot about
    old and modern building techniques.  He had some interesting ideas
    about why old, old houses that have been added to can have a different
    "feel" from their newer additions.
    
    Wall construction in your husband's grandfather's day was quite
    different.  Inner walls were generally more thickly plastered, and
    there was an interesting method of putting horsehair between the
    rock lathe and plaster.  Ceilings also tended to be higher, and
    there was no insulation in the air space between walls.
    
    The result that all this has is that old fashioned rooms in old
    houses tend to literally _sound_ different.  Sometimes this difference
    is so subtle that one only picks up on it subliminally.  But my
    husband, when going into a house, can guess its age with fair accuracy
    depending on what he hears as he walks through the rooms.  The thick
    plaster with horsehair underneath tends to deaden sound, perhaps
    making rooms sound a bit close, and therefore threatening.  I had
    occasion to experience this quite strongly when I toured Hughes
    Aerospace satellite testing labs (my brother-in-law works there
    and gave us a personal tour).  When I went into the anechoic chamber,
    which is specifically sound-deadened my flesh literally crawled
    after about 2 minutes in that room.  I never realized how much I
    love noise!
    
    Also, with no insluation, or poor insulation (construction did tend
    to be draftier in those days) old rooms can also feel colder.
    
    At the end of this discussion (which I found fascinating) Dave then
    said, "but all this doesn't mean that Grandpa _isn't_ around,
    especially if he built a lot of this house himself.  The building
    of an object is supposed to imbue it with a lot of the aura of the
    builder.  And if he built it _and_ then lived there all his life the
    sensation of his presence might well linger, like the odor of smoke
    after a fire."  Good point.  Did Grandpa build the original house?
    
    Marcia

    re .17, et al.:
    
    Another point worthy of note.  In some cases, infrasonics (that
    it, sounds below bass that the ear cannoty hear) of certain frequencies
    can make people very nervous.  In one of the high-school classes
    I attended, both students and teacher were usually nervous, though
    less so in the spring.  The reason apparently was that her room
    was directly over the oil tanks for the school's furnace, and the
    tanks often resonated in the infrasonic.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Another example, though it is not first hand experience:
    
    A sober (i.e. not the type to make things up, joke...) friend told
    a story about a couple he met.  My friend is British, living in
    the USA.  His parents invited some dear old friends from England
    for a stay.  They, too, were (reportedly) extremely sober people.
    
    They told a story of their own house.  A woman came to dinner. 
    At one point, she excused herself and asked directions for the toilet.
    When she got to the door, she tried the knob, and found it locked.
    Immediately came a reply from within, "In a minute." (I am
    paraphrasing.)  She said she was sorry (she had no *idea* that there
    were any others in the house) and waited.  Some time later, realizing
    that a good long silent time had passed, she inquired, then tried
    the door, to find it open easily.  No one was in the room.
    
    Returning to the dinner table, she told the story to her hosts.
    They simply responded "oh, that's just our ghost..."
    End of story, sorry to say.
    
    A funnier story occurs in Dan Greenburg's book "Something's There."
    Reccommended reading for the reader of this conference, who, like
    me, isn't sure that something is there.  Greenburg keeps a low profile
    all through the book - leaving himself not quite convinced that
    these things do happen - but the storytelling, like this conference,
    is worthwhile.

    Is it only dogs and humans who can "feel" or see this type of presence,
    or can cats perceive it, also?
    
             Carol

    Re .20:
    
    Cats are reputed to be quite sensitive ion this area.  However,
    some are less perturbed than others.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    
    
    Ten years ago I lived in a big old house that had 7 bedrooms.  I
    shared the house with 5 other single people.  One of these people
    worked nights and therefore was often at home alone during the day.
    He had mentioned several times that he would often hear a moaning
    and he asked if anyone else had noticed it.  None of us had.  He
    said that he would follow the moaning all over the house.  It would
    move from upstairs to down in no particular order, but he said that
    it would always end up in my bedroom just before it stopped.  I
    didn't know this guy very well and I considered him to be a bid
    of a jerk, so I paid very little attention to him.  I felt that
    he was makeing it up or perhaps he it was all in his head.  I was
    a bit angry that he was trying to spook me by telling me how it
    would always end up in my room.  I figured that since I said that
    I believed in such things he figured he could spook me into thinking
    I heard it too.  Well I wasn't going to be "had on" so easely! 
    Then, one day I had called in sick to work and was sitting in a
    chair in my room reading.  My house mate was also at home.  As I
    sat there in my room with the door part way opened, the house mate
    pushed open the door and just stood there with his mouth opened
    looking at me.  I looked up from my book to see what the guy wanted,
    but he just stood there.  Then I heard it.  It was as if there was
    someone standing to my left with their mouth not an inch from my
    ear (there was nobody there).  There were two short but distinct
    moans.  It's not like I might have heard them.  It was as if there
    was someone moaning right into my ear!  I have never been so frightened
    in my life.  I was in my bathrobe and slippers, but I got up and
    _RAN_ out of that hous as fast as I could.  It took about 1/2 hour
    to get the courage to go back in.  I did have to get some clothes
    on at least.  I moved shortly after that (for other reasons) and
    I never heard the moan after that day.  The experience was a starteling
    one.

    	Interesting how it occured during the day, and not at night,
    which is when such events usually occur.  
    
    	Did you ever find out why there was this "presence"?  Who lived
    there before, and did anything bad happen to the occupants?
    
        Or could it have been some ventriliquist trick played on you 
    by your housemate?  Why was he standing in your doorway with his 
    mouth open?  Was he throwing his voice, or was it a reaction to 
    his seeing something next to you?

    	Larry
    

RE: .23
        
    In the situation described, the elements necessary for the
    ventriliquism illusion were not present.
    
    				Topher

    re .24
    
            Such as?

    Re .25:
    
    Normally, the ventriloquism illusion requires someone to use visual
    clues to [mis]direct the attention of the subject so that he or
    she thinks the voice is coming from somewhere other than the ventrilo-
    quist.  Assuming full accuracy of the report, this could not have
    likely been the case.
    
    One exception: in an oval room, one can sometimes get a ventriloqual
    effect by standing at one focus of an ellipse and having the subject
    stand at the other.  The "Whispering Gallery" in Washington, D.C. is
    an example of that; but there was nothing in the report that would
    imply an elliptical room.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

RE: .25,.26
    
    To elaborate on Steve's statement a bit --
    
    When we are trying to figure out (way down deep in the subconscious)
    where a sound is coming from, we integrate various pieces of evidence
    or hints.  Down at that level, the concept of what makes a face
    a face is pretty primitive.  If we hear the sound of speech, and
    see two faces in the general region from which the sound is coming,
    one of which (the ventriliquist's) does *not* seem to be talking,
    and one of which (the dummy's) *does* seem to be talking, we will
    hear the sound as coming from the dummy.  Both television and the
    movies rely on the same illusion (though modern movies reinforce
    it with stereo effects).  When a figure on the screen seems to be
    talking and the speaker is not too far away, speech seems to be
    originating at the figure not at the speaker.
    
    The ventriliquist effect is very much a sensory illusion.  You percieve
    something which is simply not true.
    
    Sonic "images" can also occur under a variety of circumstances.
    Just as lenses and/or mirrors can project a light image, so various
    arrangements of sound producers, reflectors, absorbers and or benders
    can project an image of a sound, so that the sound, in a sense,
    actually comes from an arbitrary point in space.  Various whisper
    gallery effects (all involving curved walls or ceilings, as far
    as I know) are examples of these.  Stero sound can be considered
    either in this category or as an illusion distinct from the
    ventriliquism illusion, or (perhaps most sensibly) a bit of both.
    
    While ventriliquism seems ruled out in this case, deliberate
    stero effect unlikely to be that distinct and a classic whisper
    gallery effect inappropriate, this does not exhaust the possibities.
    There are lots of effects which could produce this kind of phenomena,
    and which are particularly effective on a "pure" tone or a simple
    combination of pure tones -- and a moaning sound could be either
    one.
    
    The most likely "conventional" explanation for this, I would say
    is that a fairly pure tone was being produced similtaneously in
    two parts of the house, probably by a water hammer in the pipes.
    Although the frequencies were the same (I might even have varied
    synchronously) they were not in direct phase with each other, and
    the relative phase shifted in a regular pattern.  The two sounds
    combined to produce a single source which seemed to move through
    the house as described.  Note that I am not talking about a stero
    effect but rather a sonic "interference" pattern.
    
    Please also note, that I am not dismissing the possibility of a
    paranormal explanation for what occured.  I am not interested in
    debunking.  I only point out that, under these conditions, we can
    not dismiss conventional explanations either.  I just don't know.
    
    				Topher

    
    RE: .23
    
    My house mate had come to my room because he was following the moaning
    and it had entered my room.  He stood there with his mouth opened
    because he didn't want to just blert out "do you hear that?" and
    therefore spoil any genuine reaction I might (or might not) have.
    Therefore he just stood there. 
    
    The house was quite old but well maintained.  I have no idea if
    there had been a history of the paranormal.  The lady who owned
    it was the town nut.  I avoided her whenever I could.  In fact,
    come to think of it, I had what could be termed an "aversion" to
    her.  That's how wierd she was.  I have heard recently that her
    husband had been put in jail for beating mental patients in the
    mental hospital where he worked.  A strange bunch ,that!! 
    
    RE: .27
    
    Any or all of the possibilities you put forth could be correct.
    All I know is that it sure did sound like someone was standing
    right next to me moaning right into my ear.

    "Hearing Something Not Seen"
    
    A couple of months back I was sitting on the couch reading and watching
    a beautiful fire I had lit in the fireplace.  My family was in two
    other parts of the house at the time.  The downstairs was very quiet
    that you could hear a pin drop.  All of a sudden a blast of male
    voices was coming through the wall into the living room from the
    dining room table.  Of course, there was nobody there.  I just sat
    a moment to think about what I thought I'd heard.  The voices were
    still there and just then I called out to my husband to come in
    there to see if he could hear the sounds that I'd been hearing.
    By the time I ran out of the room and he came down the stairs, the
    voices went away.  It sounded like a table full of men playing cards.
    
    ????? This was the anniversary of my father in law's death March
    3rd.  Only I had forgotten the date.  Now I think I know who it
    was as mentioned in another note I've written about spirits.
    
    Jo-Ann....

    I'm interested in this kind of stuff too. I usually agree with the
    paranormal side of things but alot of people have shown very posoble
    explanations. I have no story to tell of my experiences but I do
    feel like someone is watching me when there is no one around,very
    often. Please keep adding notes they're fun to read.
            Sarah age 11{Sue kallas's daughter.}

    
    I live in a very old house.  Approximately 150-160 years old.  (at
    least that's old to me)
    
    I have had a couple strange experiences.  I have mentioned in note
    8.32 (Ouija boards) that myself, my brother and a neighbor were
    contacted by a 'spirit'.  This happened in my brother's room.  Now
    there have been a couple times that I have been in my brother's
    room and have heard someone call my name.  So naturally, I went
    to see what my parents wanted.  But neither one of them had called
    me.  I looked outside, in the closets, etc.  But no one.  This has
    happened more than once and each time the person calls my name 3
    times.  It seems eerie or 'coincidental' that this would happen
    in the same room that the experience with the Ouija board came about.
    
    		Any thoughts??
    
    				BTW-- It's been over a year and a half
    				      since any of this has happened.
    Judy
    

    re .31:
    
    >... there have been a couple times that I have been in my brother's
    >room and have heard someone call my name.  ...  But no one.  This has
    >happened more than once and each time the person calls my name 3
    >times.    
    
    Interesting.  Did this start happening before or after the Ouija
    incident?  The three times per call is also interesting.  Can you
    remember how many times these ocurrences havt taken place?
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    re: .32
    
    	Steve,
    
    		If I remember correctly, it happened before the Ouija
    board experience.  It happened twice.  In the same night; about
    a half hour apart.  At first I thought it was my mother, because
    the voice sounded feminine.  Both times 'she' said my name 3 times.
    
    	Judy
    

    Re .33:
    
    Then they may have been coincidence.  Unless "Dr. Colby" was a
    woman, they might not either have been spirits of the dead.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.                                         

I have just moved into this country and what is - for us - a new
house. Recently I have seen shadows in doorways and I have also felt
a presence in different rooms. I have felt very frightened by all
this as nothing like this has ever happened before to me.

  After talking to a Psychologist friend of mine, I returned home
to find that I no longer felt this presence.  Two days later
though my 4 year old son started to get scared, saying that
there was someone in his room and now won't go upstairs alone. I
had been careful not to discuss my experiences in front of the
children, so I don't think it was something I said that caused
him to bring this up.

  I don't think this presence is there to harm us, but does
make us feel uncomfortable.

Has anyone advice on what I should do to find out more about who
or what this presence is ?


Lee

(using her hubbies login)

I don't think it really matters what kind of a presence it might be.

As I understand you, you don't want it around.

May I suggest that the next time you sense it, that you simply declare 
to it that it is not welcomed  and it should leave.

Of course you have to convey your conviction in your voice and 
mannerisms.

- Howard

RE: .36
    
    That's one approach (telling it its an intruder and that it should
    get lost).  Another related approach which seems to work is somewhat
    politer: explain to it *politely* that it no longer belongs there
    and that its presence is making you uncomfortable.  Explain that
    it is unlikely to get what it needs by hanging around and that it
    is much more likely to resolve its problems by "moving on".
    
    As many of you know, I am unconvinced of the existence of "spirits"
    of the non-alcohol variety: but for whatever reason psychological
    or spritist or other these simple procedures frequently help in
    these situations.
    
    					Topher

    A little over three years ago, I was visiting a friend who had been
    doing quite a bit of research on Tesla.  She lived in an older home
    near the Broadmoor area in Colorado Springs.  I followed her into
    her kitchen; she was directly in-between me and a chair that sat
    between the kitchen and dining areas; with my own eyes, I saw a
    male figure with dark eyes and round, wire-framed glasses lean forward
    rapidly, as if he had just realized I was in the room; he looked
    right at me, and vanished.  I told my friend what I had just seen,
    and she said that I was the only person, other than herself, who
    had ever seen this spirit, and that she and he were friends.  She
    didn't seem to want to talk about it much more;  I've never seen
    a picture of Tesla, but have heard descriptions that make me think
    this might have been his presence.
    
    In the book, "Linda Goodman's Star Signs", Goodman has an entire
    section on different people's experiences with ghosts in Cripple
    Creek.  Interesting reading.
    
    First_note_in_this_file_and_I'll_see_you_again!!
    Meredith

    Great beginning Meredith_:-)..._Welcome.

    RE:.10
    I understand what you're going through. Recently, my mom who was
    a criminal lawyer interested in psychic phenomena died. She would
    tell me about her out of body experiences as well as having been
    "visited" at the age of 9 from her favorite uncle. Coincidentally,
    or perhaps not, my cousin and I were "visited" by our favorite aunt,
    I was 9, she was 12. My aunt stood at the end of our bed and smiled
    contentedly at us. I was never so scared in my life. Upon discussing
    this with my mom, who was terminally ill, I asked her to visit me
    after her death. She insured that if I wasn't frightened and she
    had the capability she would visit me. This Easter will mark the
    third year anniversary of her death. I miss her quite a bit and
    would welcome a visit. She did visit me in a dream once but I was
    used as a channel. I dreamt my father was caring for her dead body.
    I walked in on him and insisted he let her go in peace. The next
    morning a psychic my father had been seeing called to say my mother
    had contacted him in the night to tell us it was time for her to
    move on. Just thought you might find it interesting. Consider yourself
    lucky, I would.
    

    This a spellbinding (excuse the terminology, please) file (conference
    - sorry I'm new to notes so I'm not sure which word is "correct").
    
    Of course, I too have felt a presence or presences, or I probably
    wouldn't be reading this file or contributing to it (birds of a
    feather someone said somewhere in file number one).
    
    Several years ago when I was living with a man who was physically
    and emotionally abusive and on a night when my self-esteem had become
    so miniscule that I thought I would fade into non-existence, I got
    out of bed to go to the bathroom.  As I sat there in the dark (people
    with low self-esteem dread the light because you have to see yourself
    in the bathroom mirror), I looked up from the bathroom floor to
    the wall.  In the darkness I percieved 3 sets of green eyes -
    disembodied and menacing eyes.  I use the word percieved as someone
    else has in this file because it is not the kind of "seeing" we
    are accustomed to, yet a picture most assuredly registers in the
    brain.  It is almost as if you are looking through a door or window
    that allows you to see things that are there all the time unbeknownce
    to you.  Strange but very real.  Anyway, these eyes just hung there
    in front of me and I had this overwhelming feeling that they were
    laughing at my state of mind (low self-esteem) and had presented
    themselves specifically for the purpose of encouraging my spiritual
    decline (did I just lose 90% of my credibility with my readers?).  I
    ran back to my bed and craweled under the covers and fell asleep in an
     attempt to forget what I had just seen and felt. The next morning
    I proceeded to take a shower in the same bathroom and as I was standing
    under the water, I FELT a shadow pass over me.  I thought you could
    only SEE shadows, but anyway what can I tell you: it was a new
    sensation to me.  Needless to say, I decided to avoid that bathroom
    for the rest of the day (fortunately, we had 2 bathrooms).  When
    my boyfriend got home I told him about my experiences with the eyes
    and the shadow, but I did NOT mention the color of the eyes.  Without
    hesitation, he marched into the offending bathroom and commanded:
    "Get out of here!  You are not welcome here!"  He came back into
    the living room where I was waiting and said simply: "Green eyes,
    right?"  I got excited that he had seen the same thing I had and
    as soon as I felt a little relief that I wasn't crazy after all,
    my misogynistic friend explained that it had to be a post hypnotic
    suggestion from me to him, because he didn't believe in things like
    that (how creative some people can be when they don't want to admit
    any new information into their lives). Anyway, telling the spirits 
    that are troubling you to leave in an authoritative way must be
     effective, because I was never bothered again - by the eyes or the
     shadow. 
    
    

>    This a spellbinding (excuse the terminology, please) file (conference
>    - sorry I'm new to notes so I'm not sure which word is "correct").

topic/subject are terms most often used
    
>    Several years ago when I was living with a man who was physically
>    and emotionally abusive and on a night when my self-esteem had become
>    so miniscule that I thought I would fade into non-existence, I got
>    out of bed to go to the bathroom.  

his abusiveness is illustrated later on when he did not give you any credit for 
your experience on a real level, but rather basically said "you made it up"

You didn't lose your credibility with me.  Things happen.  Whether they are 
manifestations of our "creative minds" or really there doesn't matter; what 
does, is that you perceive why this message was brought to you.  In your case, 
I would guess that it was a (fearsome?) message to start believing in yourself.

Hope things are better now, and that your next experience with a presence is 
more pleasant.

Meredith

    RE:  .41
    
    Prolonged and/or intense periods of unhappyness can produce the
    ability to perceive things that are non-physical.  Typical is your
    description of "feeling a shadow".  Sometimes it is difficult to
    describe the feelings involved in any rational way.  I remember
    some ten years ago I was going thru a _very_ tough time.  I was driving
    from Norfolk, VA to Hartford, CT. at around 3:00am.  Suddenly I
    knew, just *KNEW* that there was a giant who was traveling with
    me who was sort of attached to the car.  I felt that he had his
    arms around the car and was protecting me from any harm.  I somehow
    felt very secure knowing he was there.  So, which do you think is
    wierder - green floating eyes, or a giant hugging a car???
    
    Marion
    

    Oh . . . I don't know, I think the giant is weirder!  (Just kidding!)
    You know, if you have any theories as to why "prolonged and/or intense
    periods of unhappiness can produce the ability to perceive things
    that are non-physical", I wish you would share them with me.  As
    it happens, this is exactly the state of affairs that usually
    precipitates all of my experiences which could be termed "sensing
    a presense".  I thought maybe it had something to do with my
    fundamentalist background wherein "the devil" was always lurking
    in the shadows waiting to assist our demise.  Fear - non-specific
    fear - seems to overtake me and then . . . my fear becomes very
    specific: the oven timer went off by itself! ad finitum.

    re: .44
    
    >You know, if you have any theories as to why "prolonged and/or
    >intense periods of unhappiness can produce the ability to perceive 
    >things that are non-physical", I wish you would share them with me.  
       
    It would seem to me that any intense emotion might make one more
    aware of "things that are non-physical". Maybe it's due to the fact
    that when one is in the midst of some very intense emotion, especially
    over a prolonged period, you are focusing on the emotion and not
    working so hard (sub- or unconsciously) to keep from being aware of 
    the "other" things going on around you.
    
    Just a thought.
    
    -Amy.    

    
    
    RE: the last few replies....
    
    And then there is always the possibility that the presence(s) that
    you feel around you are friends and loved ones in spirit who are
    drawing close to you to help you through difficult times.  It could
    just be your emotional state that translates the feeling of a 
    presence into something frightening or negative.
    
    Carole
    

    RE: the last few replies (about giant around car)
    
    Did you see _Harry and the Herdersons_?  Maybe it was Bigfoot...

    Sorry, I had to say it *<:')

    Terry 

   
     RE:  giant
    
    Actually it was more of the "genie out of a bottle" type giant.
    He had a turbin and wore a red shirt with puffy sleeves and a yellow
    vest with red "rick rack" type trim on it.  
    
    Marion

    
    Re.47
    
    "Harry and the Hendersons" was *great* movie!
    
    I laughed harder while watching that then I've laughed in a long
    time.  Definitely recommended.
    
    Cindy

    Terry, you remind me of the men with binoculars that perch on the
    cliffs overlooking the beach at Bonnie Doone.  These conferences
    are about participation.
    
    Teresa

	re: .50 (Teresa)

	Thanks!  I enjoy this conference quite a bit.  Cindy, in her note
	Community (764), expressed something I think we all feel and it's
	why I like to participate.  I've never met 99.9% of the Dejavu'ers,
	in fact I don't know where most of you are noting from.  It doesn't
	matter, you're all wonderfull and the sense of community I feel
	here makes a difference in my life! 

	BTW, where/what is Bonnie Doone and what are these guys looking at?

	Terry

    re: -.1
      
         Bonnie Doon lies approximately halfway between Santa Cruz and
    Half Moon Bay in California.  Half Moon Bay is about thirty miles
    from San Francisco. 
         Anyway, that 40 mile stretch of Ca. Hwy 1 along the coast is
    lined with rugged cliffs and beaches and fog much of the year. 
    In addition to providing some of the best viewing areas available
    to watch whale migrations and some of the best kelp beds around
    for marine life studies, it is also notorious for the dress, undress,
    and behavior of people who find themselves there.
         Most of the beaches are inaccessible enough to allow for nudity,
    when the weather cooperates, and, as a result, there are the "usual"
    variety of lookie-lews that wander the cliff tops looking down at
    the nudes below.  There are occasional deaths from people who
    fall off cliffs, or from people who find themselves in the rugged
    surf or from fighting with whoever they happened to have confronted
    somehow.  There are also scores of people who enjoy their nudity
    and surfing (University of California at Santa Cruz provides a 
    good score of the local "interest.")
          A few years ago I ran into a movie actor (who was on Dynasty
    a couple of years ago) sunning on one of the beaches.  And, to be
    sure, one can have fun there.  There is always an element of danger,
    however, so caution needs to be taken (at least mentally.)  What
    is interesting is that the voyeurs would rather watch from a distance,
    usually, than go down the cliffs and see things "up close and
    personal."  Anyway, for anyone ever visiting the coast, be aware
    that each beach and area is unique and is probably slightly different
    from some other area.  THis is a marvelous opportunity for each
    person to apply their psychic and intuitive abilities.
    
    Frederick
    

    Frederick: I was waiting with bated breath to see how you were going
     to relate your detailed description of California's nude beaches with
     "sensing a presence" . . . well done!! Also, thank you for saving
    me the effort of an explanation.  I might add that if you pay the
    couple dollars it costs to visit the Red, White and Blue beach (just
    a little south of Bonnie Doone), you will probably avoid "the sense
    of danger" - unless that is your natural response to nudity.
    
    Terry:  Please see Frederick's note for an explanation of Bonnie
    Doone.  If things are still a little foggy, send me a note!

    
    Re.52 (Frederick)
    
    >Element of danger.....
    
    I didn't understand this - what kind of danger do you mean?
                       
    Or is this just something I shouldn't ask......?
    
    (;^)
    
    Cindy

re: last few (Frederick & Teresa)

I kinda get the picture, but what's so dangerous about sunning in the buff?
Or, shouldn't I ask...

Terry

    While sunning any part of your body seems to have its hazards, I
    don't believe that is the danger Frederick was referring to.  To
    tell you the truth, I'm not sure what Frederick was trying to say.
     I just asumed he meant that feeling you get when you are afraid
    you might get caught for something . . . which is probably the same
    feeling those men on the cliffs with the binoculars get.  You know,
    it's more fun if you think you are getting by with something.
    Personally, I like to frequent the nude beaches because of the feeling
    of freedom and peace of mind that I get.
    
    Frederick, do you care to comment?
    

    re: -.1 and a couple others...
      
          The sense of danger I was alluding to has to do with creating
    a less than positive reality, *naturally*.  What I meant was that
    I have experienced some, for me, unsavory types at some of those
    beaches...drunks and druggies, red necks and "migrant workers" who
    perch on the rocks fully clothed drinking something from paper bags
    while watching the people (I assume, the female people.)  During
    one of the first visits I had a dozen years ago, a couple of people
    with large placards walked up and down a beach screaming at everyone
    to repent and that Jesus was the only salvation (talk about forcing
    things...)  Also, there are ocassional motorcycle-type "gangs" who
    can "requisition" a territory.  Just looking at the litter at most
    of these locations can indicate the level of consciousness of many
    if not most of the patrons.  I also get a bit paranoid at times
    sitting on a beach while someone is 100 feet above me with the power
    to throw heavy things down.  I don't know about the rest of you,
    but for me most of these things are either threatening or unpleasant.
    
        I have been to Red, White and Blue but do not care for the blatant
    chauvinism and sexism...i.e., single men pay many times what a single
    woman pays.  Finally, my four acres at the peak of a mountain affords
    me plenty of opportunity to be nude, if I so desire.  I also have
    access to a pond two miles away, should I desire either of two things,
    water or people.  Who wants to drive 2 hours only to be spurned
    by 45 degree weather (when the mountains are 80-90 degrees) on a
    foggy day at the beach?  I've seen enough naked women to not have
    a particular lacking in that area, so the "benefits" don't necessarily
    outweigh the drawbacks.  
         I have additionally observed gay men "acting on each other"
    and have witnessed couples in various stages of "intimacy."  I'm
    not prudish by any stretch, but I do believe people should be aware
    of what the possibilities (and probabilities) of events might be.
         As I made an effort to imply, since I believe in creating 
    one's own reality (we need to get metaphysics in here somewhere
    ;-) )  then I believe one could program a pleasant reality instead
    of the less-than-positive one I mentioned.  Additionally, if one
    is in an "allowing" (reality) mode, then it may make a lot of sense
    to tune in to the scene psychically or intuitively to sense what
    the situation may be.  In any case, the scene I discouragingly 
    portrayed above does not need to be anyone else's but my own...I
    take responsibility for having created those particular realities
    and do not wish them upon anyone else.
      
          Theresa, I can offer you some alternatives if you are interested.
    
    Frederick
    

    Well, I visited the Red, White and Blue this last Sunday and my
    skin is still tender and red - no not where you might think!  I
    was very careful to put on lots of lotion in the obvious places.
     It's my back that hurts.  Anyway, four of us went (all females)
    and we had an enjoyable time.  I too have been witness to at least
    one couple having intercourse, a year ago, but no such shows this
    time.  More and more I truly believe that wherever I go, I find
    myself.  In other words, my physical world seems to reflect the
    interior of my mind and heart.  I must confess, however, that the
    price descrepancy for males and females is offensive to me - even
    though I am the one who gets the price break.  
    
    Frederick, I'm always interested in alternatives.
    
    TAP

         This is my experience with a presence:
         
         #1
         
         During WWII, my mother lived with her mother-in-law, a
         wonderful little Irish lady, while my father went off
         to war.  (Florish here!)  Well, he ended up at Bastogne
         (Battle of the Bulge) and after had a chance to come home on
         a troop ship with *no notice in any form*...in other words,
         "Ya wanna go bud?...ya go now, no trunk, no duffle, no
         mail, no telegraph"  He went.
         
         One night, my mother, (a stauch New England Puritan of
         remaining doubt) woke to see a tall (My Nana she was short
         and round...) woman with a long gray braid hanging over
         her shoulder, dressed in a non-descript dress or sorts,
         covered with a lighter colored shawl...(all this description
         was to try to identify the interloper) standing at the
         foot of her bed.  Once my Mom was actually awake and sitting
         up in bed, the woman calmly turned and walked through
         the wall into my Grandmother's room.
         
         Mom, being the true disbeliever she is, lay down and went
         back to sleep.  My Nana, being the true believer *she*
         was, got right up and started cooking.  Early next
         morning, my Mom asked Margaret (Grandmother) what on earth
         she was doing...baking and such.  Margaret looked up and
         said:
         
         "Didn't you see the Lady?  Dick"s coming home."
         
         My Mom has great dignity and did not reply out loud, but
         I am sure what she thought was unprintable.  My Dad arrived
         at the font door three hours later.
           
         #2 
         
         When I was eight, I felt that I had "gone beyond" the
         need for a night light.  I "retired" for the evening in
         all dignity and tried my best to go to sleep without dying
         from fear. It was 8:30.
         
         I awoke to the overhead light galring in my eyes.  It
         was 10:00.  Being a descendent of the true disbeliever,
         I muddily thought I must have gone to sleep before I really
         turned out the light...only just thingking about it. 
         So, I got up and turned the overhead off.  Left the night
         light off also, and went back to bed.
         
         I awoke to the overhead light glaring in my eyes. (repeat
         above paragraph). It was midnight.
         
         I awoke to the....(even *I* am not that gullable) I went
         tearing into my parent's bedroom, demanding that my Father
         (who always had a wicked sense of humor) stop turning
         on my light.  He was *so* dis-oriented that it was bovious
         to even my deranged little brain that he had *no* idea
         what I was talking about.
         
         Back to bed.  Light out.  But I was pissed this time and
         I set up and watched.  About 15 minutes after I settled
         down, The Gray Lady sort of "faded in* (best I can do
         folks), smiled at me, and turned on the light.
         
         I *ran not walked* back to my parent's bedroom and this
         demanded to know who the hell (I was even then a precosious
         bitch) this woman was.  With my mother bablling in the
         background that "Melinda youcouldn't have seen her..."
         my Dad told me about the Lady.  It was the first time
         I had ever heard story #1.  (I told you Mother was
         Puritanical).
         
         I made a deal with her.  I promised to keep the night
         light until I was 10.  She left my overhead alone.
         
         (There ensued several minor sitings...the dog nearly had
         apoplexy once...etc)
         
         #3
         
         The first night my future (and still after 17
         years...determined gentleman that) husband came to visit
         at my home in Maine, he slept on the third floor.  And
         she rocked in the rocking chair all night long.  Small
         wonder he appeared a bit frazzled the next morning.
         
         #4
         
         She now visits my son.  And has paid visits to my sister's
         sons in California.  None of these children were ever
         told about her until they asked who she was.
         
         ...
         
         She is technically not a haunt, I guess, since she seems
         to have no connection to any particular place; but *does*
         have a family connection.  She goes where she thinks she
         is needed, and some of my *neat* memories of being very
         little are of her covering me up at night.  I have *never*
         told my son about being covered up, and he explained the
         other night that I didn't have to check later for thrown
         off covers, that Rachel would do it.
         
         Well, I seem to now have a name.  I never knew one, but
         small person seems convinced that's it.  Who am I to argue?
         
         Any observations?
         
         Mel
         

    Great stories!
    
    Since he knows her name, he obviously asked.  So suggest he ask
    some more!
         
    							Don
    

    First of all, I want to say how much I enjoy reading this file now
    that I've discovered it.
    
    I have to disagree with some statements made back in .44 +.  The
    discussion was about the ability to better perceive things during
    or after a prolonged/intense period of unhappiness. Some of the
    other opinions stated that the reason could be due to focus on the
    problems left the person free to "accept" the feelings for the
    perceptions or presences.  I feel it's just the opposite.  During
    any intense emotional period, _especially_ a prolonged one, the
    person's feelings and emotions are better tuned or sharpened from
    the constant use.
    
    It's the same principle as any other skill -- if it gets practice
    or use it has more skill.  If it falls out of use, it gets rusty. 

    
    Just an opinion --
	Partly/Mostly from experience
    
    		Tracy

    About twelve months ago my fiance moved into his flat in Handsworth
    (U.K. - no riots though!), he had been in the flat two days and
    it was bonfire night and we had been to a display.  He dropped me
    off at home about 11.30 pm.  Drove back to flat went to put his
    car away in the garage - and saw at the back of the garage what
    seemed to be a person.  He actually walked into the garage (trembling
    slightly), and realised that the person was dead.  (I will spare
    you the gory details - but he had committed suicide).  The lad (he
    was about 17) had been suffering from severe depression and had
    tried on several occasions to kill himself.
    
    I moved in with my fiance about 6 months after this happened.  We
    decided that as my car was bought (and my fiances was a company
    car) - I should have the luxury of a garage.  When putting my car
    away in the garage I used to feel that there was a presence there.
    It may be quite true that it was my imagination, but the temperature
    definately dropped when I entered the garage.  The strange thing
    is my fiance never felt this (he said it was all in my mind).  I
    was very upset that he felt like this, but it really did disturb
    me, so much so that I eventually moved back home.  -  But one night
    about 8.30 pm at night I was putting my car away - I got out and
    I saw a figure to the rear of the garage it was a lad of about 17
    and he smiled at me.  I got out of there at high speed and never
    entered the garage again.  I told my fiance it he wanted me - the
    flat had to go.  It did and I have felt a great deal happier since.
    Do you think it was my imagination - (I don't), and do suicides
    seem to be more of a presence????
    

    Hi,  
    
      NO, I don't think you imagined it.  I don't know much about it but it
    seems to me that suicedes would be more likely to linger in the
    "in-between" world.  Spirits that return after death are those that
    left with unfinished work, or cannot resolve some conflicts that cause
    them to linger before they can move on in the spirit world.  This
    would especially be the case the 17 year boy who committed suicide in
    your garage.  
      Another point that I have heard about returning spirits is by
    appearing to people related to their conflict (maybe you are considered
    to be related to his suicide because it was in your fiance's garage)
    the spirit can work out the element holding them back.
    
      Then again, I really don't know much about it.  Just a few
    thoughts...
    

    Re: 62
    
    My grandmother died several years ago.  For a long time after her death
    I would frequently feel her presense in my apartment.  Eventually she
    stopped visiting me.  I was talking to my mother about it a couple of
    months later.  It turned out that my grandmother was now visiting my
    mother (her daughter)!.  We compared times.  When I stopped feeling my
    grandmother's presense, my mother started feeling it.
    
    I don't know if a suicide has a stronger presense or not.  Because of
    the way he left the physical plane he might have a stronger tie to it. 
    I don't know.
    
    As for you sensing the presense and your fiancee not being aware of it,
    people have differing sensitivities to things like this.
    
    Meredith
    

    Don't know if anyone is still interested in this topic but I've got
    one for you.......
    
    My Mom and most of the women on her side of the family seem to believe
    that dead friends and relatives come around for visits.  The way they
    manifest themselves is to "sit" on mom and the other gals and wake them
    up out of a sound sleep!  The first time I ever heard of this I was
    in my early teens and sleeping over with my cousins.  Their dad had
    passed away earlier that summer.
    
    Sometime in the middle of the night, I heard what I thought was the
    family dog whimpering and whining.  I woke up enough to ask my cousin
    who was sharing the bed what the noise was.  Before I could get the
    full sentence out, she was up like a shot, out of the room and over to
    her Mom's room flipping the lights on.  By the time I staggered into
    the room, my cousin was rocking my aunt and comforting her.  My aunt
    kept saying that Louie (my dead uncle) had been there and he had been
    sitting on her!!!  I thought she was crackers at the time!  Too wierd
    to even mention it to my Mom when the weekend was up and I returned
    home, I had forgotten about it.
    
    A year or two later, another family friend had died and I had overheard
    Mom and Grandma talking about how "Stanley came to sit on my Mom."
    that night and when Mom (being deeply Catholic) said a "Hail Mary" and
    asked Stanley to go away, he did.
    
    It also seems that some of Mom's buddies (all of Eastern
    European/Polish/slavic decent) experience the same things with dead
    loved ones.  
    
    Any thoughts?  Is this an ethnic explanation for an anxiety attack in
    the middle of the night?  I'm not really a skeptic but I have a hard
    time believing that the rlatives come by to sit on Mom now and then
    just to say "Hi!"
    
    Judy L
    

    Hi Judy,
    
    I don't know about anyone else, but I'm still interested here!
    
    Regarding your question though, I've heard of psychic awareness
    running in families.  But never one particular race over another.
    
    Funny though, I seem to have read just recently in another note
    ~somewhere~ in here about another family where psychic awareness
    was also a trait the females in the family had.  Intereting?
    
    If you don't mind my asking, have you ever noticed or felt anything
    along these lines?
    
    --  Tracy
    

    Hi Tracy....
    
    It's been awhile since I got to look around in notes....been busy.
    
    As for your question.  Well.....yes, I guess so.  Back in college,
    I took a psych elective called "The Psychology of Altered States 
    of Consciousness."  In that class we were supposed to "expand"
    our  awareness of other planes and prescences. I'll admit I was
    pretty successful with most of it.  With practice, I was able to
    see auras and adjust the energy level in the auras of others and
    I even got into some of this "out of body experience" stuff.  One
    of those incidents was particularly disturbing.  I was also
    good with the Ouija board.  I haven't been visited or "sat on" by
    any friends or relatives yet but I have a theory that these 
    acquaintences that have come to my Mom and her sisters do so 
    because of a closeness that they shared in the world of the living
    and I'm still young enough that those I'm that close to are still
    among the living.  I firmly believe my time will come to be "sat upon"
    as I like to call it.
    
    As forthe other comment about it being intrinsic to an ethnic or racial
    background.  I don't believe it is.  However, I do believe that certain
    ethnic groups are more open to the "mystical" in their lives.
    
    Look at all the literature that is written on Haitian voodoo (as a
    religion and a cultural entity) as well as African mysticism.  Not
    to mention the "bad press" that those from the "Baltic" region of
    Europe (the guys we call gypsies) get because of their abilities in
    the "supernatural" world.
    
    It's fun to talk about this with people like the noters here who have
    open minds!  Keep the discussion open!
    
    JL
     
    

    LET'S KEEP THIS NOTE GOING....
    
    I have a similar story to share....
    
    My father had passed away 3 yrs ago.  The night after he died, one of
    my brother's had an experience.  My brother was sleeping on the couch
    while my sister and brother-in-law slept in his bedroom.  While he was
    sleeping he said it felt as though a body was lying on top of him
    hugging him tightly.  He said the weight felt so heavy and he couldn't
    move.  He screamed (at least he thought it was a scream) calling out to 
    my sister for help.  He later woke up and the feeling was gone.
    
    Now my first reaction to this was that he was dreaming, but now I 
    believe differently.  I think that my brother felt my father's presence
    that night and my father was trying to reach out to him to comfort 
    him and let him know that everything is OK.  I think my brother (out of 
    6 other siblings) took the longest to finally come to terms with my 
    father's death.  He was the one who had to tell my mother of his death 
    and he probably was feeling the pressures of having to be 'strong' for 
    my mother.  It wasn't until this past September, the day of his wedding,
    he visited my father's grave and it was there that he finally came to 
    terms with everything and allowed all his pent-up emotions to flow.  
    
    So, I don't know....maybe my brother did just have a dream that night...
    but it is still very real to him and he still can describe the feeling 
    as if it happened yesterday.
    
    Donna
                                 

    I have a short little story to tell.
    
    My 3 yr. old son and his grandfather were very close.  My father-in-law
    (the grandfather) was a great fan of the Detroit Tiger baseball team
    and constantly wore a Tiger ball cap.  Well of course my son also had a
    Tiger ball cap than only came off for bathing and sometimes sleeping.
    
    My father-in-law had a sudden heart attack and recovered and went home
    from the hospital a week or so later. Everyone, including his doctor,
    expected a full recovery.
    
    One day while we were going about our daily cleaning routine at home,
    my sons hat broke in the back and fell off of is head onto the floor.
    He cried for a minute, and I told him we could get a new one.  He said
    with some anger in his voice that he didn't want another one and
    proceded to throw the broken hat into the trash.  For some reason or
    another I looked up at the clock when the hat fell onto the floor it
    was exactly 11:05am.
    
    About a half and hour later my sister-in-law called me to say that our
    father-in-law had suddenly passed away at home.  Later I found out that
    he died at approximately 11:05am!!
    
    I did go buy my son a new baseball cap. He wore it for a couple of days
    and I hung it on his bedpost when he went to bed.  In the morning the
    hat was no where to be found.  
    
    Since then we have moved into another house and one morning my son came
    downstairs and was wearing that ball cap!!  I asked him where he got
    and he said "hanging on my bed, where else!"
    
    lv

    Growing up I was extremely close with my grandmother.  She was
    everything to me - my mother (since my mom had to work because my
    dad had died), my best friend, and my grandmother.  Grandma lived
    with myself, my mom, & my 2 brothers.
    
    When I was 18 grandma had passed away.  For about 2 years after
    her death I used to wake up every night between 2 & 3am.  During
    this time I always felt a "presence."  It wasn't a bad presence and
    I always felt it was her "checking up" on me.  I never had enough
    nerve to look and see though (I sleep on my stomach.)
    
    I always kept this inside me thinking maybe it's in my head or
    something.  Anyway, while visiting my brother down in Dallas we
    got into some in-depth conversations.  I then told him, "Bobby,
    you're going to think I'm crazy but - and told him the story." 
    Bobby told me I wasn't crazy because he too used to get this "visit"
    around the same time every night during the same timeframe as me.  
    I honestly belive it was gramma checking up on us.  
    
    My husband & I have recently bought a house across the street from
    where I grew up and it's really wierd because sometimes I feel a
    "presence" there too!  Although, I don't think it's gramma.
    
    It's kinda scarey sometimes.
    
    Comments?
    
            

    Once in a great while I will have a dream where I am trying to find
    "something". There is great fear and anxiety during this dream as well
    as an overwhelming feeling of evil. What's strange is that I allways
    remember the dream with great clarity. The last dream that I had in
    this respect was when I found the object I was looking for it was
    wrapped in a brown paper inside of a box. It was a foot and a half tall
    (Approx guess of the dream) plastic horse. Well I woke up drenched in
    sweat with an undeniable feeling that there was something very evil or
    bad in the room watching me. My wife woke up and was very frightened by
    something she could not and still cannot describe. (I don't believe I
    could have awoken her for when I woke up I laid very still.) We live in
    a fairly new apartment with no history to speak of there-fore I am
    clue-less to the origination of this phenomenon.
    Am I affecting my wife with my own nightmares or is there something
    more?
    
    Any comments would be appreciated.
    
    Drew
        

Re: .72

Drew,

Even though you lay still, you could be affecting her by your body tension,
however, I don't see that it would generate fear in her, just her being aware 
that you are "upset" (unless she is empathic, and feeling your terror).

From the standpoint of a dream, it could mean you are (subconsciously) aware of 
something you must do/learn, while at the same time you are afraid to do 
it/learn it, and so oppose yourself.

Another possibility is that it is less a dream, and more "astral activety".
Whatever this task is that you are doing, for whatever reason, there is 
opposition to your accomplishment of it.  

Do you know your (in dream) motivation for seeking the object?  Do you seek it
for yourself, or for another?  Is there something you are supposed to do with
the object afterwards, or are you just to find it?


Beth

    OK Gang, I'm going to take the plunge. This will be my first REAL reply
    in this file. Frederick, are you proud of me? ;-)
    
    Quite a few years ago, I was a very active member of the Marlboro Fish
    and Game club in Marlboro, MA. The resident caretaker lived in a
    little house right next to the club house. 
    
    I used to tend bar, and do a lot of cooking there with my husband. He
    was president one year. We practically lived there.
    
    It was said that there was a ghost named "Harold" in the building. No
    one knew if this was a real name, they just decided that was a good
    name for a ghost. I don't know of anyone dying in the building,
    (Besides my Father-in-law, but that was after this story began) and
    Harold was a good ghost. Sometimes if I was going to open the club the
    next day on a weekend, I would leave a few things undone, which I would
    go in early the next day to do. Quite often I would get there the next
    day, and everything would be done. I asked if the caretaker did it, and
    he would always say no, it must have been Harold. I don't know if this
    was the truth, but it happened a couple of times when this guy was away
    on vacation too. I'd just say, "Thanks Harold! You made my day!" and
    that would be that.
    
    I never really sensed anything in the building though to make me "feel"
    that Harold was around, but I accepted the help gratefully!
    
    This is really a different story about the same place, only htis
    happened outside.
    
    I was cleaning the pots and pans in the kitchen one night, as I had
    done many times in the time I was a member of the club, and had to dump
    the water out of a big pot, so I opened the bzack door to the kitchen
    and went out on the loading dock to dump it off the edge.
    
    As I was bending over, dumping the water, all of a sudden the hair on
    my neck started prickling, and my heart started pumping like mad. I had
    a horrible feeling that something was out there, and VERY close to
    where I was, and it was NOT my friend Harold. (I'm getting gooseflesh
    just writing this!) What went through my mind in that instant was that
    there was something, or someone extremely dangerous to me, and to bet
    my butt back inside the building, NOW! I grabbed the pot, and rushed
    back into the kitchen, slammed the door and locked it. I stood shaking
    in the kitchen for quite a while. (The door was one of those big heavy
    metal ones, with a huge dead bolt, so I figured I'd have some warning
    if someone tried to follow me.) I then went out to the bar and got a
    stiff drink! 
    
    Since there was a party going on with lots of friends I knew, and lots
    of alcohol, I soon sort of forgot about the incident. I went back to
    the kitchen later to finish up my dishes, and went out onto the dock
    several times after that, and was fine.
    
    It wasn't until a few parties later, when I got the sensation again,
    that I realized that out of the dozen or so times I had gone out onto
    the dock the first time, I only felt a presence once. The rest of the
    times were normal.
    
    After the second time, I wouldn't go out on the dock alone at night,
    and I always made sure there was someone left at the club at night to
    walk me to my car. It wasn't long after that, that my husband and I
    quit drinking, and pretty much stopped going to that club.
    
    I will never forget that feeling of absolute dread I felt on those two
    occasions. I hope I never feel it again.
    
    Well, there's my LONG story. 
    
    Y

    OK, one more story. This one won't be as long.
    
    About 12 years ago or so, I was going to school, and living with my Dad
    Mum. My mother is an artist, and also taught oil painting in the studio
    in our house.
    
    They decided that they needed more income, and were looking to buy a
    larger house with lots of bedrooms, and open a sort of boarding house,
    and have the studio out in a barn or out building.
    
    We looked at a lot of houses, but this one house we went into made me
    feel uncomfortable as we walked into it. Nothing real bad, it just
    seemed like an unhappy building to me. I hope that makes sense.
    
    We went upstairs, and were gong through all of the many bedrooms in the
    house, and as I walked into this one room, the feeling in there was
    like someone punched me in the stomach! I almost couldn't breath in
    there. I looked around quickly to see if I could see anything that
    could be causing this feeling, and as I was looking around, it seemed
    like I heard the words "GET OUT!", only not out loud, more like in my
    head. I booted it out of there as quickly as I could.
    
    Then as we left to go look at the barn, I was horrified to hear that
    they were thinking of buying that house! Thank goodness the barn was
    sagging and would cost too much to fix up to be a studio! I would not
    have been able to live in that house!
    
    This past year, when I was down in Florida, and my father was passing
    away, I told my mother about how that house had made me feel. I had
    never mentioned it to her before. Her eyes got big, and I thought she
    was going to laugh at me, and she said, "I felt the same thing there!"
    Then she explained that it was my dad who had wante dthe house. He
    didn't feel anything, and my mother made good and sure that the barn
    would not pass inspection, so they wouldn't buy it.
    
    This was not something I could feel until I was actually inside the
    door, so that experiment of a blind test from the road would not have
    worked here. 
    
    OK, enough for one day!
    
    Y

    re: .74 (Y-oh-U!)
    
         "Frederick, are you proud of me? ;-)  "
    
         Sure, Y not?
    
    ;-)
    Frederick
    

    Thanks for the information Beth. I do not know the reason behind the
    compulsion to find the object, nor do I know what to do with it. From
    what I remember I was just looking for something. There was an urge to
    find whatever it was. When I found the horse I was horrified by it.
    Strange I know but what can you do?
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Drew
    

As a youngster I often said that I would NEVER believe in ghosts until I saw 
one.  I now officially believe.

Above a pub in Whitchurch (where I used to live) I kept glimpsing a black figure 
following me around the old rooms.  Being quite a spooky place I passed it off 
as my over active imagination and told nobody.

My boyfriend who lodged in the pub (a big hunky army man) left one morning at 
extremely short notice.  He told me that he had seen a black figure standing in 
door ways but had also passed it off as an over active imagination.

The frightening part was when he awoke one night to find it at the end of his 
bed shaking him violently by the ankles.

NASTY


When I was on holiday I met a different ghost.  A sweet young girl in a pretty 
but plain outfit with something held carefully in her hand.  

She stood approximately 3 feet from me, looked me directly in the eye and smiled 
a sweet and charming smile.

Within a few seconds, a very long few seconds, she turned away and was gone.

My mother also told me that she had seen, in the same flat, a light which seemed 
to travel accross the bedroom and out through the door.  This light did not 
travel against the wall or on the ground.

NOT AT ALL NASTY  in fact I hoped to see her again but was never that lucky.


When our dog of 13 years died I frequently saw her in the house, heard her 
scratch on my bedroom door and felt her beside me.

Due to the delicate nature of this particular ghost I could never discuss it 
with my family and ask them to confirm my story.  It did however bring me great 
comfort at a time when I really missed her.

I cannot say how much of this particular story was my imagination because I did 
so want to see her again.

We lost another dog last September through old age, I still see him from time to 
time.

Maybe the dogs are my imagination, I miss them so . . .

Gillian

Get your teeth into this puzzle . . .

I had a friend who visited her boyfriends home for the night (no there was no 
hanky panky) only to be disturbed during the night by the sound of heavy 
footsteps pacing the landing, up and down, up and down . . .

She mentioned it at breakfast to have her story confirmed by the boy's mother 
but not by the men in the house.  It would appear that for months the boys in 
the house had been suggesting the mother was going 'loopy'

Thinking it may be a trick (boys will be boys) my friend stayed awake on her 
next visit until she heard the footsteps again.  When they started pacing she 
stepped onto the landing to find it empty.

Then she got creative.  

Still listening to the footsteps she stood in the middle of the landing, arms 
stretched out and hands placed on either wall.  

When she recounted the story to me she said that it became very cold at the 
point at which the footsteps simply passed through her.  They continued to pace 
up and down for several minutes and then simply stopped as normal.

I knew Sarah for some time and this is the only strange story she ever told me.  
I have no reason to dispute what she and the mother heard in that house.

What does confuse me however, is why only the women in the house, why could the 
boyfriend and the father not hear it ?

Any ideas ?

Gillian

    Hi All,
    	This is my first note in this conference, so I hope it's in the
    right bit. What I'm going to write about happened to me a couple of
    months ago in a hotel in Fife, Scotland. It's called the Balbirnie
    Hotel and its near a place called Glenrothes. The hotel is a few
    hundred years old. This is what happened. 
    	Myself and Clare, my fiance, were looking for a hotel for the
    evening reception of our wedding this October. We visited the Balbirnie
    Hotel a couple of times and got a tour of all the facilities.
    Everything looked great and the setting was perfect. The following
    week, with Clare's parents, we went for dinner, prior to booking the
    hotel for the reception. I know this seems a bit long winded but it
    gives the background info.
    	There were four of us at the table and we were eating our desert at
    the time. Clare, who was on my right at the circular table, suddenly
    felt as if someone crept up behind her and then pulled at her hair. She
    then was completely frozen as she felt someone walk through her. At
    this moment I suddenly felt a cold chill and felt as if something
    walked straight through me. 
    	I was talking to her Dad when this happened and he said that my
    face suddenly turned pure white just as I felt the prescence. 
    	As you can imagine, we were both pretty freaked out by this. Her
    Mum and Dad did not feel anything at all. We asked the waiter whether
    the place was haunted and he said that he could tell us stories all
    night about the number of ghosts(including some dogs in the bedrooms!!)
    	We slowly finished our meal and were still sure that we wanted this
    hotel for the reception. After the meal, Clare and I went through to
    one of the lounges to relax after the meal. The room was quite large
    with several sofas and about ten people in the room. There was some
    music being played in the background...all very pleasant. We were
    sitting on the sofa talking for about ten minutes. All of a sudden both
    of us stopped talking at the same time and looked across the room in
    the same direction. There was nothing to be seen but we both heard a
    woman singing with a high pitched voice. This went on for about ten
    seconds. I then felt as if someone was running towards the both of us
    very aggresively and very angrily. I leaned over, turned with my back
    to where the feeling was coming from, and pulled Clare behind me so she
    was sheltered from what was rushing towards us. We both then felt as if
    a hugh rush of energy passed through us. 
    	As you can imagine, I'd had enough of the hotel for that day and we
    left very quickly. We're not having the reception there anymore.
    	Hope this story isn't too long. There's more to tell about another
    hotel we went to book for our wedding night. This just happened last
    weekend. I'll write it in tomorrow when I've got more time.
    
    
    						ROD.
    
    

    Hi, Rod.  Thanks for sharing your story.  Sounds like a rowdy place!
    
    An aside, after your marriage, your wife's name will be Clare Blair.
    Neat.
    
    :-)  *Susan*

    Rod,
    
    What a story to tell your (grand)children! Save it for some stormy 
    night.
    
    I'll wait for you to tell us about the other experience, and hope I
    don't "spook" you, but if you have more of these, maybe it's not the 
    hotels.......
    
    
    Marilyn 

    Hi Susan,
    
    	Thanks for your reply. Yes, I know, Clare Blair does sound a bit 
    silly !!! Not too sure if she's going to change her name or not.
    	I've got time to write about what happened last weekend.
    	
    	For the wedding night, we don't want to stay in the hotel where the
    reception is taking place so we decided to try elsewhere. There's a bit
    golf tournement on at St. Andrews that weekend so there are no hotels
    available in the area. We decided to try a hotel called the Houston
    House Hotel. It's quite luxurious and would be perfect for a wedding
    night. The only trouble is, it's about 300 years old. We both joked
    about how it might be haunted but didn't take any of it seriously. We
    visited on a sunny Sunday afternoon.
    	We asked about the rooms available and were shown around the
    building. The first room was perfect and we looked at another in a new
    part of the building and it was okay too. The whole building was pretty
    warn because it was a sunny day. When we returned to reception to book
    the first room, we found out it had been booked. We were taken to
    another room with the same 4 poster bed etc. There were 3 of us in the
    room (Clare,myself and the receptionist). We were in the room about 15
    seconds when I felt a sudden cold chill and a sense of pressure on my
    body. I turned to Clare, who was at the other side of the room, and say
    her look at me with the same anguish. We both felt the same pressure
    and coldness at roughly the same time. The receptionist felt nothing.
    The room was in direct sunlight with no windows open and there was no
    wind outside. 
    	I don't know what it was that made both of us feel this way
    but,..... we're not going to be staying there !!! We left the hotel
    fairly quickly after this happened. We explained our predicament to the
    receptionist and left.
    	We've found a nice new hotel for the wedding night that feels nice
    and comfartable. 
    	Anybody out there had similar experiences or any ideas about what
    the two of us are going through. Before we met, we both have had similar
    experiences and lots of dejavu type dreams. 
    	
    P.S. We're both pretty normal people really !!!!!
       
    
    
    	

    Hi, Rod.  It sounds as if both Clare and you are super-sensitive to
    these disembodied spirits.  Thanks for sharing your experiences.  You
    relate them very clearly; I can picture it.  I have no idea how I would
    react if this happened to me, but I think I'd be happy to have someone
    with me while it was occurring.

    
    Welcome, Rod.  What a story!
    
    Cindy

    Looks like nobody's written in awile. But I'll try to start it back up
    again.  My name's Scott, I'm new here at DEC and I've found this to be
    a very intersting conference. But about my story.
     I originally come from West Jordan,Utah. the house I was born to was
    built on an old indian reservation and there was always a sense of
    someone or some thing "looking in" on me that never made me feel quite
    right. No one else in the neiborhood ever felt quite right about it
    either. There were more divorces and suicides in that town than
    anywhere else in the state. I still don't like to go back there,not
    that anything really "bad" happened to me there it's just the strangest
    feeling.
    /Scott
    

    
    A fascinating conference. I have just been scanning a few of the key
    notes in here, and I love it. This is my first note in this conference,
    so please forgive me if I should have signed in elsewhere first.
    
    It was suggested that I connect to this conference to relate a tale of
    a problem that I am experiencing at present in my new apartment in
    Brussles. Mysterious closing and opening of doors and windows, and the
    like, but since I currently suspect the old lady next door of coming
    through the supposedly locked door that links the two houses, I shall
    presume (for now) that there is nothing too spiritual involved.
    
    This note, however, has prompted me mention an experience of my own
    which may interest you. I gained a reputation, as many of you will
    have, for being interested in the 'paranormal'. I am curious about many
    things in life, and whilst I seek evidence if possible I do not exclude
    any possibility. Only a fool denies something merely because they
    cannot explain it. 
    
    The first story occurs during my time in Plymouth a few years ago. I had a
    number of experiences of a minor kind myself, the most notable of which
    was a temporary apparition spotted out of the corner of one eye. About
    3 foot high, a foot across, oval and about 3 foot from the ground it
    'hung' in the air in the middle of our dining room. Our house is about
    300 years old, and the dining room was once a slaughterhouse for local
    cattle. I froze, without turning, blinked a few times and then slowly
    turned my eyes to look more directly at the shape. There was none of
    the usual 'cold' or 'bad' feelings that I and others have felt so I
    presumed an optical illusion. The shape did not move as I slowly turned
    to face it, but about halfway around it vanished. Still assuming an
    optical illusion I resumed walking through the house, and nearly fell
    over the cat which was sitting, it hackles up, staring at the same
    point in the room that I had seen the shape. It heard me, turned,
    relaxed and wandered off, apparently not bothered by what it might have
    seen. For the next few nights my cousin's young son, who would have
    been about 5 at the time, had very bad dreams, and the cats seemed a
    little spooked, after that all was OK again. We never had any other
    problems, and my cousin still lives in the house.
    
    About this time, I became more interested in these things again, and
    set about asking friends and relatives for any experiences that they
    may have had. My reputation as a 'ghost-hunter' preceded me, and a
    colleague at Devonport Dockyard in Plymouth asked me to check out his
    house for him. He had had some major problems with a 'presence' that
    had spooked other people that had stayed in the house, so that many of
    them would not return. He had never felt anything himself, but these
    people were so genuinly scared that he called in the usual bunch of
    semi-professional experts to try to find anything - they failed - and a
    few religious persons to exorcise the place. All to no avail, guests
    still reported VERY bad feelings when they stayed over. I agreed to
    check the house out, mainly through curiosity, and he invited me over
    for dinner. His house was in Cornwall, in a very secluded, cold and
    windy location. It was dark by the time I got there, and the place was
    pretty spooky anyway. Fortunately it was bright and warm inside and we
    had a nice dinner and a good chat about the age of the house and what
    work had been done on it. Before we ate he showed me around the house,
    and the particular room which was said to be the problem, the guest
    room. This one room was almost separate from the rest of the house due
    to the architecture and the fact that it was the only bedroom not to
    face the front of the house. I suggested that this and the location of
    the house could have caused a psychological effect, which combined with
    the noises of foxes etc. could possibly be taken as the 'crying child'
    that could be heard by these haunted guests. I felt nothing myself, but
    claimed to be no 'psychic' anyway. After dinner and our chat about work
    on the house he said that I must see the barn, so we went out into the
    garden, where stumbling down the path I made my way to the dark looming
    barn. Again, I should point out that at this point I had dismissed the
    ghost theory for psychological reasons, so I was not expecting anything
    out of the ordinary. This chap went into the barn before me and
    switched on a series of strip lights in the roof, helping me find my
    way to the door. I was relieved to be out of the cold and dark, but the
    feeling I had when I stepped into the barn, made me step backwards
    straight out again. Every hair on my body must have risen, and to say I
    felt chilled would be an understatement. My eyes were drawn immediately
    to an old beam in the barn and to a point on the ground below the beam.
    I must have sworn because this guy turned around and aked what was
    wrong. After a few seconds the feeling had passed, and although I felt
    unwelcome in the barn I was OK there. I had to ask, did any of the
    rooms of the house overlook the barn? Only the guest room he told me.
    The kitchen was too low, and the other rooms faced front. Had any of
    these 'specialists' checked out the barn? No, he said, the house was
    supposed to be haunted not the barn. Had any of his guests seen the
    barn? He was not sure, but it had not been cleared very long. He saw
    the link I had made and said that he would get in touch with these
    'experts' again and get them to check the barn. I had no opportunity to
    speak to him again over the next few weeks and soon after I left
    Plymouth to work in Sussex, so I'm afraid I don't know the conclusion.
    
    I hope these are of some interest. I never feel threatened by the idea
    of some kind of spiritual contact, and my experiences have never seemed
    threatening, only unwelcoming or troubled. I sometimes wonder whether
    all you have to do in these cases is find out why the spirit is there.
    Perhaps they just want someone to know the truth. Perhaps they are just
    imprints of a massive emotional trauma. Who knows, but I find it really
    extremely fascinating. Almost everyone I know has some story of the
    paranormal, but most have dismissed them as they don't like that which
    they cannot explain. I would rather retain a healthy, if guarded,
    curiosity. I hope that I will be welcome here, as many of you seem
    kindred 'spirits'.

�                               so I'm afraid I don't know the conclusion.

    I don't like being left in suspense! :-(

    Good story though. I might add, that I had goose pimples/bumps (chicken 
    skin, as they say here in France!) when you stepped into the barn!

    Martin.

    
    Yes, me too!
    
    Cindy