Conference hydra::dejavu

			OUIJA WHAMO!

	I knew some people who were very much into the occult frame of
mind who viewed use of a ouija board as very dangerous.  They claimed
that when one does use a ouija board he becomes a channel from the 4th
plane of existense to the 3rd plane (here).  The 4th plane is where you
go from here when you die and you either recide there or get recycled 
as in reincarnation to do some more time on the 3rd plane.  Well the danger,
as they claim, is in the fact that you are opening the door to bad or ignorant
spirits (i avoid saying evil because they believe there is no evil).  These
spirits will use you to their ends and could care less if they hurt you along
the way.  They claim a group of high school students in this area did it a
few years back and suffered injury and one suicide because of it.  In a series
of books by Jane Roberts called "Seth" she has daily contact with a personality
called Seth from the 4th plane.  She doesn't need a ouija board anymore to
simply become Seth.  But that is how Seth originally got in.

	Take it for what it's worth!

							From the 3rd plane!
								Jorge'

There are three (not entirely mutually exclusive) theories of OIUJA oper-
ation [by the way, you might be interested in knowing that the name, which has 
an oriental flavor, is really a cojoining of the French and German words for
"yes":, "oui" and "ja"]:  One Jorge' has more or less outlined -- that there
are spirits from "the beyond" who inflyence the pointer.  A second is that
there are discarnate entities, some benign and others malign, that masquerade as
spirits (this ties in with the Medieval notion of obsession) and motivate the
pointer.  The third is that the subconscious minds of the participants force
the answers.
	With regards to explanation one, this hypothesis makes the board a 
chancy thing to play with, for the reasons stated above.  The second hypothe-
sis makes the board a _very_ dangrous thing to play with, particularly if
one or more of the participants has what occultists call The Talent (e.i.,
the ability actively to manipulate occult forces rather than just being sen-
sitive to them; such peple are said to be in the minority), since they can
open an _unprotected_ channel to a malign plane.  The third hypothesis also
shows the board to be potentially risky, though nowhere near what explana-
tions one and two, because if some people believe internal thoughts and
opinions to be external-factual, they might make horrible mistakes.
	In the 1950s, a book and spinoffs caused a lot of damage.  The book
was called _The Search for Bridey Murphy_, and concerned a "researcher's"
"proof" in reincarnation.  The book was later shown to be ... well, at best
a mistake and at worst a hoax, but in neither case actually factual.  Yet
because of the excitement it generated, at least one teenager committed
suicide so he or she (I forget which) could see what the next incarnation
might be like.

	The message, anent hypothesis three, should be evident.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

About five years ago I got into the OUIJA board with my wife and sister-in-
law.  My sister-in-law (Kristine) had been fiddling with it for several years
prior to that.  She told us that she regularly spoke to someone by the name
of Nick. He was quite mean and had been alive until the 1940s. As soon as
we tried it, Nick immediately announced himself.  He had told Kristine a
year or so before that he had committed several crimes while he was alive.
To test the validity of the board, my wife (Linda) and I asked some questions
without Kristine's hand on the cursor.  We found out that he had committed
rape and murder several times and he thought it was funny.  Kristine verified
that this is what he had told her.  It was quite creepy.

Another thing that bothered me about it was that Nick didn't like me and
was angered by any questions I posed.  He swore violently (the cursor moved
rapidly) and he threatened to kill me.  I don't know much about the 4th plane,
but it makes sense from my experience with the OUIJA board.

BTW  I don't play with the OUIJA board anymore.

		Dave

	I'd like to add a little fuel to the fire of it being an unwise thing
to mess with a ouija board.  The spirits on the 4th plane most likely to try
a contact with the 3rd plane are the ones that either can't make it on the 4th
plane or have unfinished business here.  The ones that can't make it on the 4th
plane have not lived their lives on the 3rd plane in such a manner as to earn
the permenant 4th plane existence.  So they have to incarnate back to the 3rd
plane to try it again.  It only makes sence that these individuals most likely
have been led astray  and are most likely criminal in nature.  The entities
that have unfinished business here usually are consumed with guilt becuase of
something they did here.  Any person consumed with guilt is dangerous and
irrational on any plane.

	In the case with "Seth" he claims he is a permenant 4th-5th plane 
entity who is a teacher by nature on all planes.  His perpose was to enlighten
us all thru Jane Rroberts as to the true nature of reality and history.  Some
of his stories as to historic personalities, events, and the future are very
interesting.  He doesn't claim to tell the future but he does point to the
most probable futures.  He does say that you can't predict the future but
hopefully you can have some control over the present as to stear us into the
future.  "Free-Will" still lives.

						Just PLANE me!
						   Jorge'

Re .4:

The "Fourth Plane" concept is a model, generally put forth by some mystic
schools that are based on a particular (Eastern-derived) form of theology.
Not everybody agrees that this is an appropriate model.  See, for instance,
Qabbalah, which posits an entirely different metastructure.

However, if we accept the idea of additional continuua ("planes"), and if we
assume they are inhabited; particularly if we assume (per above) that the
inhabitants are for the most part nonbenificent, then I'd suspect that such
beings wouldn't necessarily be telling us the truth.

For those interested in the "Seth" phenomenon, I'd suggest another book,
_Conjuring Up Philip_, wherein a group "created" a personality collectively,
outlining "his" life, characteristics, etc., and then successfully "raised"
the "spirit" in a seance.

As  humorous neopagan publication pointed out, "Never conjure up Anything
you can't dismiss."  Meant jocularly, but there's truth in it.

My personal feeling is that a Ouija board, a planchette, or anything else
designed to open the wielder up to another being is very dangerous to fool
around with; less so if you have the training/discipline to know what to
do and what to look out for, but nothing to "play"with as entertainment, even
for experts.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

    My own experiences with the Ouija board are minimal, but one was
    quite interesting.  It concerns the man I was going with in high
    school, who is now my husband.  When we played with Ouija boards
    in high school, they "went dead" whenever he was in the room.  I
    noticed that if he would wander off into the kitchen or wherever,
    the planchette would move for the participants, but when he would
    return to watch the action over someone's shoulder, there wouldn't
    be any (action, that is).
    
    I'm pretty sure this was not operating from power of suggestion
    because for the longest time I didn't tell anyone what was going
    on.  Finally I told him; intrigued, he and I would repeat the
    experiment without telling anyone.  We finally did mention this
    interesting coincidence to our friends, and after that they would
    instruct him to leave the room if they wanted the board to "talk",
    although a few times, they sprung his "power" on people who didn't
    know about it, just to see if it would work.  It always did.
    
    Explanations?  Theories?  If it was the power of suggestion working,
    in the beginning it was only my suggestion, which makes me a whale
    of a silent suggester.  I've never noticed that I could influence
    anyone's minds without saying something first.  If it was coincidence,
    (always possible) it sure behaved consistently.  And finally, if
    one assumes The Talent, and psychic sensitivity in particular, it
    is possible that some have a Talent for jamming the ether, or being
    a psychic short circuiter.
    
    Interesting . . .
    
    Marcia

    re .7:
    
    Isaac Bonewits in his book on magic suggested precisely that there
    were what he called "anti-psi" people who would act as the equivalent
    of psychic jammers or short-circuiters.  This might be a case of
    it.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    
    P.S.:  There's a story about someone who was putting on a psychic
    exhibition back in the 1930s who one evening was having _no_ luck
    whatsoever in doing her normal routine.
    
    "I just can't do it," she said.
    
    "_Now_ you'll be able to," said one of the observer, and left.
    
    After his departure, she had no more trouble.
    
    [Sorry I can't be a bit more specific; I heard the story more than
    25 years ago.]
    
    -S
    

    It's also interesting to speculate on just what is getting jammed.
    Steve K. put forth 3 theories of Ouija board operation, two of which
    posited that the planchette was moved by Otherworldly types, the
    last which said that it was moved by the subconsciouses of the players.
    
    If my husband is indeed a jammer, I wonder what he's jamming--the
    entry of other entities, or other people's own subconscious mental
    activity?  (which might include any telepathic, clairvoyant or other
    "interpersonal" talents?)  On the other hand, a person's ability
    to contact discarnate entities might be called an interpersonal
    talent (of sorts) and without the proper "receiver" the interested
    entity can't make contact.
    
    Marcia

    
    I had an experience about 5 years ago on Christmas eve using a Ouija
    board. We used an inverted wine glass because it flowed smoother
    on the surface. After 6 or 7 people used it we had everyone put
    their fingers on the glass to attempt to lift it off the table.
    To everyones surprise the glass rose about 6 inches off the board
    for between 3 to 5 seconds. Since most of us had a few drinks in
    us there were numerous explainations as to what happened including
    one person saying that they had lifted the glass as a joke. I think
    this was done because we are brought up believing that these sort
    of things just don't happen so we pretend that it didn't. Further
    attempts at lifting the glass resulted only in the glass rocking
    in a circle and then tipping over. To this day some of the people
    involved still discredit what happened-so people won't think they're
    crazy? I often wonder why it happened on Christmas eve and may try
    it again next Christmas. I think that we needed the energy of more
    than two people to do it and that's why we couldn't duplicate what
    happened with just two. Anyone else experienced a similar happening?
    
    Mark

    
    Sticky fingers...
                       
    
    /Bevin
    
    [A confirmed cynic]

    I had an experience with Ouija a few years back and just for
    entertainment I'll mention it.
    
    I friend of mine and I got discussing Ouija one afternoon and decided
    to get it out and see what we could get out of it. We asked standard
    questions like "Will I earn alot of money?" and "When will I meet 'that
    special girl'" and what not. After a few questions like this that got
    answered simply "No" or just "N", the "spirit" seemed to get quite
    irriated and spelled out "I no do future" or some broken phrase to that
    effect. Needless to say, we were quite excited by that and we both
    immediatley accused the other of horsing around. Intrigued, we
    continued and found out that the "spirit" was a Russian immigrant - I
    can't rememeber if he gave a name - who had been killed in an
    automobile accident in the early forties. After a while of "talking" to
    him, we started asking more personal questions (like "what's it like to
    be dead?" and were you married, did you have children?" We were going
    to try and find evidence of his actual existance) and he broke things
    off and we couldn't get any movement any more. A few weeks later we
    tried again and he said something to the effect of "I can't talk - too
    sad"!  
    
    When it came right down to it, we didn't find out anything about
    "him", which makes the skeptic in me say that my friend was pushing
    the board. But, who knows?
    
    lowell

    In talking about the Ouija, let's keep in mind that the "standard"
    board is a gamed marketed by Parker Brothers.  However, one need
    not have the Ouija Board to get results.  One book I read described
    a number of experiences which were the result of writing the alphabet
    and numbers on a bar-room table and using a whiskey glass as a
    planchette.
    
    I have only had one experience, many years ago.  I was visiting
    my parents house and my mother and a cousin (on my father's side)
    went off to use a Ouija Board.  I was quite cynical and followed
    to observe the antics.  Nothing exciting happened for a while, but
    then a confused series of messages began to appear.  Suddenly, I
    was convinced that someone else was in the room.  I looked around,
    but there was no one else.  However, the feeling that someone had
    entered the room was very very strong.  I also was positive that
    I knew who it was.  I said nothing.  I only told my cousin to ask
    if it wanted me to sit down at the board.  The immediate reply was
    yes.  Now my thought was that it presence wanted the two people
    at the board to be blood relations; since my mother was there, it
    would seem that I should have replaced my cousin.  However, I asked
    my mother to get up, and shared the planchette with my cousin. 
    She then asked who the presence was and the planchette immediately
    pointed out my Father's mother's name - our shared grandmother.
    This confirmed my earlier feeling that I knew who was in the room
    - my paternal grandmother.
    
    During the exercise, I deliberately kept my eyes off of the board
    - as did my cousin.  Our eyes were locked on each other.  From the
    experession on her face she was as surprised as I was at what was
    going on.  My mother read the letters off as they came
    up.  As far as I can tell, neither my cousin nor myself was exerting
    any influence over the direction the planchette moved.  In fact,
    on the few times I tried, I had no problem changing the direction
    of motion; however, it never came to rest until it wanted to.
    
    Was I scared.  YES!  All three of us KNEW that someone was in the
    room.  My cousin and I now share a special feeling for each other
    that we never had (we were never that close - she's a few years
    older than me), and none of us have ever touched Ouija again.
    
    I have related this experience to other people with more knowledge
    in psychic and occult phenomena and have been warned NOT to fool
    around with the board.
    
    One man's experience.  Take it for what it's worth.
    
    As for Jane Robert's and Seth, I have read the first two Seth books
    and would welcome a discussion of Seth theory of reality and
    personality.
    
    Ben
    

    I've had several prophetic of accurate Ouija exp's.
    
    1.  Once I was on a double-date with a guy, Noah, just up from Boston,
    my friend Bob, and his girlfriend, Barbara Potter.  Well, Noah and
    I both knew Bob, but we didn't know each other or Barbara, so conversa-
    tion was a bit awkward, so I asked if anyone wanted to Ouija, and
    Noah gave me a lift to my house to get it.
    
        I always first as I there is a message for anyone in the room
    (after a proper "hello"), and it immediately spelled out, "Barbara,
    tell mother to marry again."  Her father had died one year ago that
    day (for coincidences).  Next, "B.  Quit you job."  --she was a
    kindergarten teacher and wasn't happy with it.  Barbara then asked
    us to ask it questions that she knew the answers to, ie. "What frat.
    were you the Pres. of?"  It said, "Sig Ep." --which was the one
    her father had been Pres. of when he was at Dartmouth.  The list
    goes on but I don't want to get too long-winded.  
    
         Anyway, the popular concensus of those in the room during this
    occurance was that it was Barbara Potters father.  --Oh yes, like
    one of the former observances, when Bob (Barbaras date) tried to
    do it with me the planchette went wild and was swearing like a
    sailor.  I guess he didn't approve of Bob going out with his daughter.
    
    2.   My girlfriend was preg. and we asked girl or boy.
    It said boy died girl.  Turns out that when she must have miscarried
    during her 2nd or 3rd month cause when she went in for her 6-mo.
    check-up the doc said "you're only 3 mo. preggers."  At the end
    of a year of being pregnant she had a girl.
    
    3.   Danger of Sebago Lake was the message, so I warned my father
    not to go out in his boat that day, but he doesn't give ANY credence
    to Ouija boards or anything extra-normal, so he went anyway, and
    sure enough he hit rock and had a wicked leak in his boat -- call
    the reverse bucket brigade!! --  
    
    G O O D B Y E                   --Janice

    There are a couple of references in this note to the 4th dimension
    or astral plane.  I just want to pass along one of many possible
    structures to the planes that we exist on.  The one I have been
    taught is as follows:
    
                     1 - physical (+ etheric)
                     2 - astral (emotional)
                     3 - lower causal (mental)
                     4 - higher causal (mental)
                     5 - spiritual (buddhic)
                     6 - monadic (christ)
                     7 - divine
    
    When our physical body dies, we then experience in our astral bodies
    on the astral plane.  This experience can last for different lengths
    of time.  Some spirits can get stuck on this plane and never move
    on, however they do not reincarnate from this plane.  A "normal"
    process would be to spend some time in the astral plane and continue
    the process that we were working on here.  At a certain point, we
    experience death of the astral body and then are in the mental body.
    We also experience the death of this body and return to our higher
    mental body which can be considered our higher self.  As long as
    we need to reincarnate and have physical experience, we use the
    causal body to recreate the three "lower" level bodies for each
    incarnation.  While we are in physical form, there is a part of
    us that exists on all these 
    
    When we are in communication with spirits, they are usually on the
    astral plane.  It is important to have some guidance and discipline
    when opening ourselves up to this plane because we create a "light" on
    the astral plane that spirits are attracted to.  
                                                  
    There are also those spirits that dwell on the "higher" planes,
    and these are usually our guides or teachers, or "guardian angels".
    Some have been with us for many lifetimes, others may be with us
    only a short time, depending on our needs.  
    
    It's quite a fascinating area of study, and one of which we will
    always have something to learn about.
    
    Carole
    

    	I found your explanations very interesting, and your comment
    about guardian angels ties in with the Roman Catholic belief of
    guardian angels "assigned" to watch over everyone.
    
    	What I would like to know is WHERE did such information come
    from?  I am not asking what reference books did you get this from,
    I would like to know the original source of these concepts, and
    where and how did they learn (or make up?) such things.
    
    	Larry
    

    Re: .15
    
    This information was passed to me through a teacher who is also
    a minister and an evidential medium.  He has put together some
    very interesting classes dealing with spirit and the subtle
    bodies.  His source (though not limited to) are the works of
    Alice Bailey.  She was a medium whose spirit teacher The Tibetan
    wrote many books using her as his instrument.  It is from his
    teachings and the teachings of others in the spirit realms that
    this information comes to be.  What spirit bases this teaching
    on I don't know.
    
    Alice Bailey, I believe, was a Theosophist.
    
    Carole
    
    P.S.  I was wondering if anyone was going to read my note response!
    

    	What is a Theosophist?
    
    	Larry
    

    re: .17
    
    I wanted to make sure I had the definition of Theosophy correct
    before answering your question, so I verified it with the
    Theosophical Society in Boston.  Here goes:
    
      Theosophy embodies three objects.  They are:
    
      .  Belief in a universal spirit, and working toward forming
         a nucleus of a brotherhood of humanity.
    
      .  Members are encouraged to study all world comparative religions,
         world philosophies, and world science.
    
      .  Exploring the laws of nature and the cosmos, as well as the
         emerging powers of human beings as spiritual entities.
    
    (Madame) H. P. Blavatsky is considered the founder of the Theosophical
    Society.  They also have a very good book shop on the premises (Quest
    Books), and sponsor lectures and workshops on a regular basis.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Regards,  Carole
    
    

    	Yes, thank you.
    
    	I'm sure it also helped those who were also unfamiliar with
    Theosophy.
                                     
    	Larry
    

    re: .13
    
    Janice, concerning 1., who was at the board when the information
    about Barbara was spelled out?
    
    peter

	RE .18

  Are you a member of the Theosophical Society?  Is there one in/near 
Washington, D.C.?  I would be interested in finding people in the area
who share an interest in the works of H.P. Blavatsky or A. A. Bailey.  I
came across some of Bailey's books many years ago, but you are the first 
person who has ever mentioned her works.  I feel like I've just bumped
into an old friend.

As to Ouija boards, my thought is that they serve no useful purpose, but
serve largely destructive ends.  (who's ends is another question).  My
suggestion for people who might choose the board to contact deceased relatives,
or for insight/personal advice is to use meditation, prayer or lucid
dreaming.  

I had a friend who died the summer after high school graduation.  Some time
after that I began to see her in my dreams.  This continued over the course
of months, at first, so I began to take note and decided to communicate with
her in my dreams.  She was surrounded with much negativity at first, but over
the course of several years, she changed.  It is very difficult to describe
in words, and this is the only time I have ever said much about it, but I
believe that I was communicating with another spirit, which I knew, and was
able to help her in some way to move closer to the Path.  

The reason I should mention this now, is not without cause.  I earlier
read a note/replies on lucid dreaming, and another on Ouija boards and
contacting loved ones on the other side.  Additionally, though I've read
this notesfile infrequently, this is the first I have contributed.  I was
waiting for something to click.  I saw tonight a need to make contact.

		Regards,

		Pat

    re: .21
    
    Hello and welcome.
    
    I'm not a member of the Theosophical Society, though I've attended
    some lectures there.  As I mentioned in my previous note, a teacher
    whose classes I have attended bases much of his material on Alice
    Bailey's work, as well as C. Leadbeater (sp?).  I have read a couple
    of Bailey's books - they are so full of information and some of
    the concepts are so different that it takes me a long, long time
    to finish a book.  Being an astrology student, the one I'm fascinated
    with is her work on Esoteric Astrology - still have not finished
    this one!
    
    I don't know if there are chapters of the T. Society in the D.C.
    area.  You might try calling the Boston society, I'm sure they
    would be more than willing to talk with you.  They are located at:
    
                        Theosophical Society
                        122 Bay State Road
                        Boston, MA   02116
    
                        617-266-0410
    
    Again, welcome and I look forward to hearing from you again.
    
    Regards, Carole
    

    peter,
    
    Noel (my blind date from Boston) and I were at the ouija while
    Barbara and Bob sat on the couch just watching -- neither Noel
    or I had met Barbara before, but we both knew Bob -- also, it
    was a spontaneous idea to play with the oiuja brd. (mine), so
    that information was either esp or spirit influenced or a dam-
    good guess(s)
    
    why, have you had any uncanny exp.'s with the weegee?
    
    janice
    

    re: .23
    
    If Barbara had been at the board, I'd say she could be influencing
    the movements of the planchette. But because she was watching, and
    because she was a stranger to you and Noel, it was a very 
    interesting situation. 
    
    My theory of the Ouija is that it's a neuromuscular phenomenon of
    some sort rather than a connection to a spirit world. But your story
    has certainly made me think!
    
    peter  

    
    I believe the ouija board operates by pcyshic energy and that there
    is a field of energy around the person or persons using it.Some
    observations i have made:
           1.The last time we used the board my girlfriend Diane tried
    it by herself.It worked but moved slowly.I noticed if i touched
    her or came too close to the board it would stop moving and start
    again when i moved away.I believe i was interupting the field.
           2.If i joined her on the board the pointer moved a lot faster.
    I believe our energy combined at that point.
           3.I notice that the more positive we are when we use the
    board that the pointer moves much faster.I believe positive thoughts
    and manner increases our energy level thereby allowing better operation
    of the board.
                                        MIKE
    

    This conversation is continued in note 242
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Here is a strange experience that happened to me.  I still do not
    know what to think of it.  Maybe some of you would be interested.
    
    ...When I was around twelve years old, four of my cousins and I
    were playing with the Ouija board on the ice on an old Cranberry
    bog (my Aunt Butchie would give us a lickin' if we got caught in
    the house with it).  Well, we got some guy who was a real sarcastic
    person (ghost, spirit....).  He said some things that sounded sort
    of creepy.  Said alot of sadistic things about "little boys".  At
    the time, we truly did not understand what he was telling us.  Soon
    he became annoyed with us and said "do not wish to speak" we still
    continued to talk and ask him questions.  The board went nutso and
    the ice cracked under us so badly that we had to run leaving the
    board behind us.  For a very long time after that we all had dreams
    of a "bad man".  To say the least I am horrified by the Ouija board.
    
    Please comment
    
    Samantha

RE: .27
    
    You were obviously tapping into some personality, whether external
    or subconscious or (I don't think that we've mentioned this one
    before) arising by conventional or paranormal means from the "group
    dynamic", which was dominated by hatred and the desire to create
    fear.  Being able to "handle" such a personality (i.e., being able
    to avoid psychological harm from contact with one) is one of the
    necessary prerequisites for undertaking any form of "channeling"
    experience.  Children are emphatically *not* ready to deal with
    this.  Many adults who are attracted to this activity are not either.
    It is not a question of maturity but of a type of sensitivity.
    
    				Topher

    I've never had the simple persistence to work the OUIJA board as
    a character-by-character data-xfr device. It certainly has been
    'poisoned' by its representation in popular films, etc. as the
    prankish device-of-choice of charlatans. It seems to me that it
    is no more inherently evil than a telegram note-pad. It's just
    who's sending the messages that might cause some concern. My S/O
    always observes" "Assholes are evenly distributed" (here & There)
    as a simply deflationary caution. Why must They be better than Us?
    They Are us! just a mite deferred; some are itching to stay connected,
    & some are working off karmic debts (as a previous note described).
    As ever, the 'management of expectations' is a preliminary stage.
    
    - Boleslaw

    On and Ouija board, how does the thing move?  Does it just move
    by itself while you watch it or do you get signals where to move
    it.  Is it really true that it is dangerous to use an Ouiga board
    if your unexperianced.  If so, why is it that it is sold as a kids
    game, like monopoly?
    -=*>Jason<*=-

    The usual technique is that the participants placce their hands
    on the planchette.  Motion might be caused by some entity working
    through the person or people participing, currently being called
    "channeling," these days, or it might be the unconscious prompting
    of one of the participants.  Either way, contact is required [except
    in Hollywood films :-)].  Using a Ouija board _can_ be dangerous
    (do a dir/title=ouija to check all the notes on ouija experiences),
    though with proper controls, it needn't be.  
    
    >      ...         If so, why is it that it is sold as a kids
    >game, like monopoly?  
    
    Because:
    
    1) there's money in it, and,
    2) the manufacturers apparently don't see it as something to be
       taken seriously.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    I haven't had much experience with a Ouija board but I did have
    one that just came into light.
    
    	My brother, a nextdoor neighbor and myself used a Ouija board
    one evening, just around dusk.  We asked if there was a spirit present
    and it replied with a yes and then we asked who it was.  All we
    got was a "DR" and then my dog jumped on the door so contact was
    destroyed and could not get it back.
    
    	At the time I thought it was my brother or Dina (my neighbor)
    trying to be funny and pushing it with their fingers (they were
    14 and 13 at the time).  This all happened about a year and a half
    ago.
    
    	Well, just this past weekend, we had a yard sale at my house.
    One of our 'customers' said his mother used to live up the street
    from us and mentioned that a Dr. Colby may have lived in our house.
    Could the "DR" that the spirit mentioned been the beginning of trying
    to spell out Dr. Colby??
    
    		Just seems weird.  I haven't had a chance to do research
    on the house but I think now maybe I will.
    
    			Judy
    

    I myself never had an experience with an Ouija Board... but ...
    a friend of my sisters did... She had just started dating this guy
    and he had brought her over to a friend house.  They were sort of
    bored and one of the girls decided to mess around with the Ouija
    Board. Well, they came in contact with some spirit by the name of
    Joe.  The asked him how old he was when he died and he said 13.
    They asked him how he died and the board spelled out "Mommy did
    it"... My sisters friend thought that it was corny, so they tried
    it again and came in contact with another guy who died at age 30.
    They then asked how he died and the board spelled out murder. When
    one of the guys started talking to it, the spirit must have got
    mad and started spelling out all sorts of swears and then the board
    spelled out "K-I-L-L".  They asked who he wanted to kill and the
    board spelled out my sisters friends last name... None of the people
    there knew her last name except for her date who was in the other
    room at the time... Well, he took the board and threw it across
    the room and told them never to take it out again in front of him.
    She was a little upset about it, but she says that she will never
    fool around with it again. As they say, "YOU SHOULD NEVER FOOL AROUND
    WITH THE UNKNOWN"..
    

    I'm not sure how much of this was real, or imagined, but there were
    probably 4-7 people using our Ouija board several times a week when
    I was around 12 or so.  The "spirit" of the board was named Tarjos.
     He seemed Indian, and was nice.  There were "fun spirits" named
    Rusty and Dusty, and a nice young female named Sarah, who was always
    being hassled (punished) by an evil female spirit named Hester.
     One of the more powerful spirits to visit us was Jade.  He first
    made the candle flicker green, when asked for proof that he was
    there (never do this, folks, it may be BAD)....and then we all thought
    we saw his outline on the wall.  Maybe overactive imaginations.
     But I don't fool with the stuff anymore.  
    
    

    Well, it seems this conference has "died", but maybe I can get it
    goinh again. I don't use the WeeGee, but I do what that call "Walking
    the Table". (Or Rapping the table). It's the same principle as the
    WeeGee, but you use a four legged, wooden table, and it "raps" by
    bumping up and down. Three raps for yes, two for no, and it will
    "rap" out letters by counting the raps ans eaqating the letter of
    the alphabet.
    
    I "inheireted" this trait from my maternal grandmother who could
    do this and automatic writings.  I don't really know if I "contact"
    other entities, or my sub-conscience is linking into others, or
    it's just my sub-consicence. As this has been a long-statnding
    phenomena in my family, we all accept it, not as fact, but as fun.
    I won't "walk the table" in front of anyone who takes it too seriously,
    as I don't know what is really going on. We just have a lot of fun
    with it, and have had some "predections" come true. I've also
    "converted" a few skeptics because of the "knowledge" of things
    I was able to relate. 
    
    I am personally on a "search", but it doesn't dominate my life.
    I've had quite a few "wierd" experiences myself, but don't try to
    turn them into proof of anything. 
    
    Well, can we start these discussions again?
    
    				Earph (nickname given to me by a Haunted
    House Hunter - he found 2 he could never explain)

RE: .36
        
    Fear not, although topic 8 has not been that active, the topic of
    Ouija boards has been a frequent topic of discussion (One might
    even say it has been rather "topical", though you might perfer not
    to :-).
    
    Below you will find a directory of all notes containing the word
    "Ouija" assembled with the aid of the ENOTE batch NOTE program.
    Several limitations of this listing to keep in mind:
    
    	1) ENOTE lists the topic note in the directory whenever a
    	   reply contains the word searched for.
    
    	2) Many mentions may be completely trivial.
    
    	3) Notes which talk about Ouija or are relevant to Ouija may
    	   not explicitly use the name.  For example, your note does
    	   not appear since in your only reference you spelled it
    	   phonetically.
    
    	4) I made this listing mostly to show that the topic is hot,
    	   and to allow people to look at a few notes whose title may
    	   be intriguing.  If you want to just look for all (or almost
    	   all) notes containing the word OUIJA, you're better off
    	   using the NOTES SEARCH command (Say HELP SEARCH), or the
    	   ENOTES EXTRACT command with the /CONTAINS qualifier.
    
    
    					Topher
    
_______________________________________________________________________________    
$ ENOTE DIR/CONTAINS=OUIJA DEJAVU *.*
Listing notes from DEJAVU (conference DMATE2::DEJAVU)...
                <<< DMATE2::DUA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DEJAVU.NOTE;1 >>>
                                Psychic Phenomena
Created: 22-JAN-1986 14:01         653 topics         Updated: 11-FEB-1988 12:01
                   -< Know more new notes (643 is just FYI) >-
 Topic  Author               Date         Repl  Title
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     8      DR::BLINN        25-SEP-1985    36  Ouija boards
        SNICKR::FIELD        26-SEP-1985     8.1  
        FURILO::STANLEY      26-SEP-1985     8.3  
        SNICKR::FIELD        26-SEP-1985     8.4  
           PEN::KALLIS       26-SEP-1985     8.5  
        NATASH::BUTCHART      7-MAY-1986     8.6  Jamming the reception
        NATASH::BUTCHART      7-MAY-1986     8.8  Jammers, cont'd
        FRSBEE::HIGGINS      22-MAY-1986     8.9  Hidden energy?
        HOMBRE::WILLIAMS     25-JUN-1986     8.11  
        WOMBAT::FELDMAN      26-JUN-1986     8.12  Another true-life Ouija experience
        HITECH::BUCK         11-SEP-1986     8.13  -< messages from beyond >-
        NEWVAX::FALCO        20-NOV-1986     8.21  MAKING CONTACT
        TPLVAX::FOX           1-DEC-1986     8.23   re. 20 -- peter 
         ORION::DONAHUE      23-DEC-1986     8.24  re. 23 -- Janice
         BAXTA::PUSHARD_MIKE 28-JAN-1987     8.25  ouija operation theory
        EDSVAX::MAKO         27-MAR-1987     8.27  <"Believe it or not">
         CURIE::COSTLEY      22-JUN-1987     8.29  " ******** are Evenly Distributed "
         CURIE::DECARTERET   30-JUN-1987     8.30  Confused?!
        ERASER::KALLIS        1-JUL-1987     8.31  have you read from the base note forward?
         VIDEO::MORRISSEY     1-JUL-1987     8.32  
         GRECO::MISTOVICH     6-JUL-1987     8.33  Another Ouija Experience
        PNEUMA::MCNALLY      24-JUL-1987     8.34  Another Ouija Board Experience
         LEZAH::BOBBITT      24-JUL-1987     8.35  my experience with Ouija
    14  MOTHER::PHILPOTT      2-OCT-1985    39  detecting a presence.
         VIDEO::MORRISSEY     1-JUL-1987    14.31  
           INK::KALLIS        1-JUL-1987    14.32  details help
         VIDEO::MORRISSEY     2-JUL-1987    14.33  
    16  BELKER::STANLEY       5-OCT-1985   180  Who are you?
        FREMEN::WMSON         7-OCT-1985    16.5  
        OEDPUS::PHILPOTT     21-OCT-1985    16.19  
        WFOVX3ESCARCIDA      17-DEC-1985    16.29  
         ATFAB::VINDICI       8-SEP-1987    16.132  Out on a Limb?
    27                       23-OCT-1985   323  UFO's
        ARCANA::CONNELLY     19-MAY-1987    27.170  less-than-holy communion?
    37  LEHIGH::WATSON        6-NOV-1985    12  Personal Experiences Anyone?
        CLOUD9::WMSON        21-NOV-1985    37.5  
        HITECH::BUCK         12-SEP-1986    37.7  
    52   NEXUS::MORGAN        7-DEC-1985     9  Jane and Bob.
           PEN::KALLIS       10-DEC-1985    52.2  
   121     INK::KALLIS       29-APR-1986    75  The Satan Connection: Watch Out For It!
         GRECO::MISTOVICH    20-FEB-1987   121.39  ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
         GRECO::MISTOVICH    23-FEB-1987   121.53  WHO'S BEING RIDICULOUS?
   127  WFOVX3::ESCARCIDA     5-MAY-1986    34  How about a Gathering?
        PBSVAX::COOPER        5-MAY-1986   127.6  GREAT!
   150  AKOV03::DALPE        12-JUN-1986    15  Proof?
        CSMADM::SAWYER       24-JUN-1986   150.10  final proof...
   242                       14-NOV-1986    29  ouija board experience
         ERLTC::COOPER       14-NOV-1986   242.4  Technique.
           INK::KALLIS       18-NOV-1986   242.19  Good Intentiona All Around
           INK::KALLIS       10-MAR-1987   242.28  
   244  MTBLUE::PUSHARD_MIKE 20-NOV-1986    24  lets try again
        PSYCHE::DECAROLIS    24-NOV-1986   244.15  y
           INK::KALLIS       24-NOV-1986   244.17  
         ERLTC::COOPER       24-NOV-1986   244.18  Dangers 
           INK::KALLIS       24-NOV-1986   244.19  
         BAXTA::PUSHARD_MIKE 25-NOV-1986   244.20  summing it up
           INK::KALLIS       25-NOV-1986   244.22  
   252     INK::KALLIS        1-DEC-1986     8  A Sinister Seance
           INK::KALLIS       15-JAN-1987   252.7  Investigate, but do so professionally
   275  BPOV09::PERRY         5-JAN-1987    18  Sensitive Animals ?
        PBSVAX::COOPER        9-JAN-1987   275.15  To seer or not to seer.
   288     TSG::MASON        22-JAN-1987    93  Trance Channeling
        PBSVAX::COOPER       24-AUG-1987   288.29  Female Channeled Personalities.
           BSS::BLAZEK       18-JAN-1988   288.93  Jap Herron
   290   ORION::HERBERT      26-JAN-1987    35  PARANORMAL EXPERIENCES
        BEANCT::TEMPSEC      30-JAN-1987   290.6  see-thru lids
   316  MTBLUE::PUSHARD_MIKE 25-FEB-1987    77  Mediums/Channelors
        MTBLUE::PUSHARD_MIKE  3-MAR-1987   316.9  TO CONTINUE....
   319   ORION::HERBERT      27-FEB-1987    15  The shape of things to come?
        COLORS::TBAKER        2-MAR-1987   319.4  The lion and the wind
   325  AKOV68::FRETTS        3-MAR-1987    21  Afterlife Experiment
        MTBLUE::PUSHARD_MIKE  5-MAR-1987   325.16  the search for...
   329   MLFS1::DALPE         9-MAR-1987    29  About the warnings
        CHUCKL::SSMITH       10-MAR-1987   329.7  Can anyone be more specific?
           INK::KALLIS       10-MAR-1987   329.8  But don't do it for frivolous reasons
        PBSVAX::COOPER       10-MAR-1987   329.9  Principles (rather than procedures) of safety.
        GOJIRA::PHILPOTT     10-MAR-1987   329.12  
        MRPRD8::PLACEMENT    11-MAR-1987   329.13  Have we gone to far? How far can we go?
        ERASER::KALLIS       11-MAR-1987   329.14  The key is _Responsiblity and Knowledge_
          ZEKE::LINEHAN      11-MAR-1987   329.16  ***OUIJA BOARD***
          VAX4::JOLLY_S       9-JUN-1987   329.17  I'm with Steve, sorta!
   332  MTBLUE::PUSHARD_MIKE 13-MAR-1987     3  "WITCHBOARD"
           INK::KALLIS       22-JUN-1987   332.3  addendum
   358     INK::KALLIS        4-MAY-1987    98  Truth, Faith, and Reality
        PUZZLE::GUEST_TMP    29-MAY-1987   358.46  "how can I release this prison door I'm holding?"
   368  SKYLRK::CIACI        22-MAY-1987    13  Seth
         NEXUS::MORGAN       14-JUL-1987   368.11  Rupert and Joseph
   394  SSDEVO::ACKLEY       24-JUN-1987    61  Invisible enemies?
        MTBLUE::PUSHARD_MIKE  7-JUL-1987   394.51  Seek out the answer
        BIGALO::PUSHARD_MIKE  7-JUL-1987   394.55  invited guests?
   401  THE780::MANSFIELD     7-JUL-1987     7  Sahaja Yoga and Realization
        MLCSSE::SU            1-DEC-1987   401.7  A Unique Discovery
   403   STING::MOREAU        8-JUL-1987    20  Psychics - Be prepared
        NATASH::BUTCHART     31-JUL-1987   403.12  
   406   GRECO::GADDIS       15-JUL-1987    24  Lazaris And Concept:Synergy
        BARAKA::BLAZEK        7-DEC-1987   406.18  Or we could...
        DECWET::MITCHELL      7-DEC-1987   406.19  A Ouija board with two extra O's...
          CLUE::PAINTER       8-DEC-1987   406.22  Going downhill quickly
   418  WOWBAG::MARSH        21-JUL-1987   176  August 16-17th
         BAXTA::PUSHARD_MIKE 21-JUL-1987   418.6  pieces of the puzzle
   421  MORGAN::MOREAU       21-JUL-1987     3  Ouija Boards
        USFSHQ::SMANDELL     21-JUL-1987   421.1  
   433  SKETCH::BASSETT      31-JUL-1987     1  Ouija board question
        PBSVAX::COOPER       31-JUL-1987   433.1  Relative danger and performance
   443  USRCV1::JEFFERSONL   11-AUG-1987    91  Any demons in the house?
        FDCV13::PAINTER      12-AUG-1987   443.21  Further explanation
   455  DECWET::MITCHELL     17-AUG-1987   145  What's Wrong with New Age Thinking
        PBSVAX::COOPER       26-AUG-1987   455.40  Return to normalcy
        DECWET::MITCHELL     26-AUG-1987   455.42  Hardly dangerous
        SSDEVO::ACKLEY       27-AUG-1987   455.47  subconscious minds �
        DECWET::MITCHELL     19-JAN-1988   455.99  Next I'll be hearing from Shirley Mclain
        GENRAL::DANIEL       22-JAN-1988   455.112  Butter is made from milk.  The sun's leaking.
   476   ATFAB::VINDICI       4-SEP-1987    83  More Ouija
        PBSVAX::COOPER        4-SEP-1987   476.4  Misc. Ouija notes.
        BARAKA::BLAZEK        8-SEP-1987   476.5  St. Germaine Connection
         CSC32::WOLBACH       8-SEP-1987   476.6  
         BAXTA::PUSHARD_MIKE  9-SEP-1987   476.9  ASKING THE WRONG QUESTIONS
        BARAKA::BLAZEK        9-SEP-1987   476.10  Asking The RIGHT Questions
          VINO::EVANS        11-SEP-1987   476.16  I wanna know
        PBSVAX::COOPER       11-SEP-1987   476.18  Differing traditions, differing practices.
           INK::KALLIS       11-SEP-1987   476.19  this old board ...
        HPSCAD::DDOUCETTE    11-SEP-1987   476.20  Please elaborate
        MTBLUE::PUSHARD_MIKE 14-SEP-1987   476.23  HELLO OUT THERE!
        BARAKA::BLAZEK       14-SEP-1987   476.24  'Fess Up Guys
        FRSBEE::HIGGINS      15-SEP-1987   476.31  Tidbits
        PBSVAX::COOPER       15-SEP-1987   476.33  Rigorous experiments.
         BAXTA::PUSHARD_MIKE 17-SEP-1987   476.45  Even more
        GERBIL::MORAN        22-SEP-1987   476.52  An open mind
          MIST::IVERSON      23-SEP-1987   476.53  "The Board" on reincarnation
        BARAKA::BLAZEK       30-SEP-1987   476.57  Help! It's Deep Stuff!
         CURIE::TZELLAS       5-OCT-1987   476.78  Help...
        BARAKA::BLAZEK        7-OCT-1987   476.80  re: .59, .78, .79
   477  ARCANA::CONNELLY      4-SEP-1987    39  What's Wrong with Science-oriented Thinking?
        UTRUST::DEHARTOG     25-SEP-1987   477.36  
   489  DECWET::MITCHELL     16-SEP-1987    32  An Experiment
        CHGV04::ORZECH       25-SEP-1987   489.23  This is embarrassing.  A grown man...
        SSDEVO::YOUNGER      25-SEP-1987   489.24  More threats :^)
        DECWET::MITCHELL     25-SEP-1987   489.30  Here they are!
   497   STING::MOREAU       23-SEP-1987    16  Pendulums...?
        PBSVAX::COOPER       23-SEP-1987   497.6  What you know you know.
   499  BARAKA::BLAZEK       24-SEP-1987    16  Ouija Messages
        DECWET::MITCHELL     27-JAN-1988   499.9  Temporal problem
         38146::STANLEY      28-JAN-1988   499.10  
           INK::KALLIS       28-JAN-1988   499.11  Quick, Watson!
          CLUE::PAINTER      28-JAN-1988   499.12  I just hadda do it.
           PSI::CONNELLY     29-JAN-1988   499.13  <groan>
        PBSVAX::COOPER       29-JAN-1988   499.15  Like fast hunt and peck.
   576  HPSCAD::DDOUCETTE    23-NOV-1987    15  Destiny
         AIS11::VINDICI      23-NOV-1987   576.6  Probable Realities
   639  CNTROL::GEORGE       28-JAN-1988     4  Has the New Age gone mainstream?
         29633::BLAZEK       30-JAN-1988   639.4  Looking for the Light
   647   28912::CALLAGHAN     2-FEB-1988    32  What of our own End?
        MTAVAX::CHRISTENSEN   3-FEB-1988   647.11  Getting Older

    re .36
    Walking The Table sounds facinating.  How does it work and have you 
    found out any interesting things that you can tell us about?
    Mary

RE: .36
    
    Table walking is anscestral to the Ouija board.  This phenomena
    was frequent at seances.  Michael Faraday, the great English
    experimentalist, placed small boards beneath the sitter hands,
    these boards in turn were placed on pieces of slippery waxed paper
    which in turn were placed on the table.  Faraday showed, by this
    device that the table was actually being moved by small, presumably
    unconscious, movements of the sitters hands.  Undaunted, the
    spiritualists adapted and adopted his device to form the planchette
    which made automatic writing much easier.  This evolved into
    the modern Ouija board.
    
    Table walking is also known as table tipping by the way.
    
    				Topher
    

    re: .36 (Earph)

    >>	Three raps for yes, two for no, and it will "rap" out letters 
    >>	by counting the raps ans eaqating the letter of the alphabet.
    
    	Doesn't that take quite some time, not to mention unwavering
    	attention, to get any sort of message through?  Was the "two
    	for no, three for yes" method passed along to you from your
    	grandmother?  Does the table actually lift (however minutely)
    	off the floor?
    
    >>	As this has been a long-statnding phenomena in my family, we 
    >>	all accept it, not as fact, but as fun.
    
    	I'm not quite sure I understand why you are doing this if you
    	don't take it seriously.  As has been indicated in many Ouija
    	stories, people tend to get what they've sought.  If you seek
    	thrills and/or sensationalism you're undoubtedly going to get 
    	it.  I would like to offer a peaceful word of caution to you:  
    	Please don't fool around with this in a frivolous matter.  I 
    	believe the authenticity of whoever it is you're "contacting" 
    	is minimized and the possibility for less-than-positive exp-
    	eriences enhanced by any display of frivolity.
    
    	Forgive me if I've completely misunderstood your entry!
    
    						Carla
    

    I have never messed with one of those boards and never will only
    because of my old roommates experience with it.  I came home one
    day from work and she and one of her friends were messing with one
    of the board and then about two weeks later she started getting
    these weird letters from Europe..These letters were things about
    Satanism, which I could not understand..A month later I moved out.

    Re .41:
    
    Did your roomate know the person sending the letters from Europe?
    Or were they *really* mysterious letters?
    
    wondering...
    
    Elizabeth
    

    As with any dealings in the spirit realm one has to be careful
    what one lets into this realm.  Ouija boards are merely tools
    like Tarot cards, a pen and paper (as in automatic writing) or
    the medium (as in channeling).  The danger comes when people
    "play" with the board allowing any entity to come through.  The
    best way to begin experiments with the board is attempting to
    contact a spirit one is familiar with i.e. a spirit guide, 
    relative, etc.  I always start each session with all the
    participants and observers closing their eyes and imagining
    surrounding the area in white light.  This provides a psychic
    protection.  It also helps to say a short prayer to the effect
    that we come here to learn and allow only positive energies to 
    share this physical space.  If by chance a negative energy does
    come through you might try telling the entity it is not welcome
    and to GO AWAY in no uncertain terms.  Then take a break and
    come back using new "operators".  Sometimes a person can attract
    negative entities without being aware of it.  Try the same
    person on the board another time and the results will probably
    be completely different.  
    
    Something that I believe is that a spirit cannot enter this physical
    realm unless someone here opens the door for them, so to speak.
    This is our dwelling place, not theirs.  Also it's best not to
    experiment with psychic phenomena around teenagers.  You know
    they'r at that point where their changing social scene and their
    hormones can make them do really strange things.  Personally I
    think that energy combined with psychic energy can be pretty
    dangerous.  (Did you know that most poltergeist experiences have
    been found to originate in homes with teenagers?  Once they're
    through puberty the phenomenon usually goes away.)            
    
    Nanci
    
    

    Hi,

    I have been in this notes file for a couple of months now, and 
    I have replied to a couple of notes, but this note is a personal
    issue for me, and I would just like to add a little of my own
    experiences.  There are no flames, nor am I trying to pass judgement
    on anyone, I would just like to share my perceptions and experiences.

    I have used a Ouija board for over 15 years.  I have always been
    the "easiest receiver", and therefore in great demand.  My family
    has always been very big on psychic phenomenom (sp?), and I was 
    raised in an environment of "just do it" -- caution to the wind.  As
    you can probably guess, this has led to more than one horror story.
 
    I have had various experiences with "friendly" and "unfriendly" 
    entities.  I agree emphatically with everyone who has suggested that
    this is not a toy.  I have had other psychic situations occur which
    I am <<POSITIVE>> were directly related to ouija experiences.   Is
    there any one out there who can be ABSOLUTELY sure that the entity 
    which is expressing itself is not a threat?

    Not to preach, but consider for example:  If an entity wants an
    avenue to this "plane" and KNOWS that to achieve this it must appear
    "friendly" even if its intentions are not.  I have to believe that
    intellegence (even at a simple level) would dictate that in its
    initial introduction, the entity would attempt a congenial meeting.

    I realize that there are many experiences where the entity has 
    immediately made its intentions known, but through my various
    experiences, I have found that on initial contact, the entity is
    usually amicable.  It is VERY tempting to re-establihs contact at
    a later date, especially if the first contact was "successful" (i.e. 
    some accurate information was provided).  I'm sure anyone can see
    that this can begin a pattern which may become [nearly] addictive.

    I have been privy to such a situation and it is very difficult to 
    reverse.  There are a lot of notes within this file that I know 
    little or nothing about, but this is one that I feel I have some 
    experience.  Ouija's are not harmless toys and I do NOT believe
    that you can "protect" yourself from "evil" when using one.  I accept
    that some people feel safe(r) when utilizing one of the various
    methods described in the previous replies, but if you feel that you
    have to use one, then you understand the danger involved.  It may
    seem exciting, but WHAT IF your style of protection doesn't work?

    Over the past 5 years I have not touched a ouija board, but recently
    decided to try my hand at it again.  The truly terrifying feeling
    that went through my body when I placed my fingers on the planchet (sp?)
    was unbelievable, I went physically ICE cold and I got real 
    "hot" in my head.  Needless to say that was more than enough to 
    convince me that 5 years wasn't long enough.
    
    I guess all I'm trying to say is BE VERY CAREFUL.  There are many
    well meaning people in this conference who may not agree with me, and
    they are intitled to their opinions, but IF they use some type of
    "protection", then aren't they in reality saying that there are 
    definitely "dangers"?  Sometimes experience is the best teacher, and
    unfortunately it is rare that we learn from other's mistakes.  Just
    be very thoughtful and take into consideration all the replies that
    you've seen in this note.

    Well, that's basically it, a REAL long-winded BE CAREFUL!  Sorry if
    this seems too long, I just have real intense feelings about this
    one, and I apologize if I have offended anyone, 'cause that was not
    my intention.  

    Thanks for hearing me out.

	Laurel

    
 

    
    Laurel,
    
    Thanks for entering that. 
    
    Always best to be safe than sorry....and your note reinforced that.
    
    Cindy

    This note has reminded me of a question I've wondered about (though I
    don't encourage people to go out of their way to find out the answer).
    Has anyone ever asked their ouija board spirits if there is a "correct"
    or true religion, and if the answer was yes, was a specific religion
    identified?
    
    								-mark
    
    p.s., does this topic give anyone else the willies?

    re .46 (Mark):
    
    >Has anyone ever asked their ouija board spirits if there is a "correct"
    >or true religion, and if the answer was yes, was a specific religion
    >identified?
    
    If one did, would you believe it?

    One problem with Ouija-evoked entities is that they _could_ be okay,
    but maybe not.  Suppose you encountered a total stranger on the
    street and asked him or her that question.  Would you risk everything
    on the answer the stranger gives?
                                     
    Caution is the watchword here.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    
    >p.s., does this topic give anyone else the willies?
    
    How does it give you the willies?  Using such an instrument is
    voluntary, after all ...

    	This topic does not give me the willies because I'm comfortable
    	with the always-positive communication I have with my guides,
    	and with the knowledge that if were to ever feel anything from
    	the board, it's *MY* hand and I can pull it away if necessary.
    	(For the record, I've never had to, but I have protections I
    	set up which have been very positive and successful.)
    
    						Carla
    

    re .47 (Steve)
    
>    If one did, would you believe it?
    
    	I didn't ask the question so that I could stake my beliefs upon it,
    and whether I'd believe it or not should have nothing to do with the
    answer (should it?).
    
>    One problem with Ouija-evoked entities is that they _could_ be okay,
>    but maybe not.
    
    	True, but that doesn't mean that they could not give an answer to
    the question, if posed to require a direct, unambiguous answer.  (Maybe
    it's just my impression, but many of the allegedly spirit-originated
    messaged posted in this conference are rather vague and generic, as if
    they purposely were composed with a lack substance, as if to avoid
    controversy that might cause one to question the merit and/or
    truthfulness of the message.)
    
    	Whether or not the answer might be a lie is beside the point.  The
    question is, has anyone ever asked such a question, and with what
    result?  If so, then the merits of the answer can be discussed.
    
    	Hasn't anyone else ever thought to ask such a question?  For my own
    reasons, I wouldn't pursue contact with the spirit realm, but if I
    didn't have the reservations that I do, I think my curiousity would
    impell me to make that one of the first questions I'd ask.
    
>                    Suppose you encountered a total stranger on the
>    street and asked him or her that question.  Would you risk everything
>    on the answer the stranger gives?
    
    	Not necessarily, but as I said above, I didn't mean to imply that I
    was searching for an answer to stake my personal beliefs on.  If I WERE
    searching for the answer to such a question, though, I'd probably ask
    more than one person, and make a decision only after having heard the
    answer or answers.  Again, what I personally feel to be the answer to
    my own questions is beside the point.
    
    	The reason I think the matter is different than asking the 'man on
    the street' is that many of the world's religions contain an aspect of
    the supernatural, and both presume and teach the existance of God or
    gods and/or other beings that exist invisibly to man's sight in the
    spirit realm.  If they do exist, then they, moreso than any human,
    should be aware of the true state of affairs in the spirit realm.
    
    	Obviously, if one did ask a ouija board spirit what the true
    religion was, if it answered, that would give one something to think
    about.  To my mind, this is a question with a potentially hard answer
    to swallow.  Are people only looking for easy answers to the easy
    questions?
                                     
>    Caution is the watchword here.
    
    	Given the substance of Laurel's reply, a few back, I couldn't agree
    more, and as I said to begin with, I'm not suggesting that anyone
    should go ahead and ask such a question (if they haven't already). 
    
    	As to my "p.s.," it was meant somewhat rhetorically, since it's
    obvious that a good many noters have no fear whatsoever of ouija board
    communication.  To me, that doesn't seem to be a very sensible
    attitude, but then, that's just my opinion.
    
    	Re Laurel's reply; it seems that there's been a lot left unsaid. 
    Sounds like she's had a devil of a time of things.
    
    								-mark.

    re: .49 (Mark)
    
    >>	Hasn't anyone else ever thought to ask such a question?  
    
    	I've never asked such a question, and doubt I ever will.  For one
    	thing, defined religions don't interest me, therefore no desire's
    	present to find a "true religion" other than what's right for me,
    	which doesn't include anyone's definitions but my own.  My truth, 
    	my beliefs, my convictions, and my own experiences.  That's about 
    	all I can deal with.  =8*)
    
    >>	I think my curiousity would impell me to make that one of the 
    >>	first questions I'd ask.
    
    	In which case you must be more religion-oriented than I.
    
    >>	If they do exist, then they, moreso than any human, should be 
    >>	aware of the true state of affairs in the spirit realm.
    
    	Ah yes, but it's all matter of perception, is it not?  And this'd
    	be what you described below as "easy answers".  For me, bypassing 
    	lessons is not the way to growth.  It may be easier to take an 
    	airplane from Point A to Point B, but I'll miss a heckuva lot of 
    	scenery and experiences, not to mention be putting faith in the 
    	pilot, since I am unqualified (at present) to fly the plane on my 
    	own.
    
    >>	Are people only looking for easy answers to the easy questions?
    
    	That's for individuals to answer.  Speaking for myself, no.  And
    	my guides give me anything but easy answers.  Sometimes can take
    	months before I understand what their messages were conveying.  I 
    	don't do this for profit or for thrills, I do it for myself (and
    	my Self).
    
    >>	As to my "p.s.," it was meant somewhat rhetorically, since it's
    >>	obvious that a good many noters have no fear whatsoever of ouija 
    >>	board communication.  To me, that doesn't seem to be a very sensible
    >>	attitude, but then, that's just my opinion.

    	Cautionary practices are always advised, but fear?  Similar to
    	worrying, I haven't found it accomplishes much other than to focus
    	negative energy on a situation.  As the old adage says, "You get 
    	what you give."  In seeking positive guidance, I've been fairly
    	successful in achieving what I want.  Don't believe adding fear 
    	would be productive, it would be directing pure negativity.  And 
    	I'm not overly fond of what negativity attracts in *any* realm!
    
    						   Carla
    

    re .48 & .50 (Carla)
    
>    	I've never asked such a question, and doubt I ever will.  For one
>    	thing, defined religions don't interest me, therefore no desire's
>    	present to find a "true religion" other than what's right for me,
>    	which doesn't include anyone's definitions but my own.  My truth, 
>    	my beliefs, my convictions, and my own experiences.  That's about 
>    	all I can deal with.  =8*)
    
    	Well, in that case, you can't really address my questions directly,
    can you?  But perhaps no one can.  (Nevertheless, thanks for expressing
    your thoughts.)
    
>    	In which case you must be more religion-oriented than I.
    
    	Maybe so, but I suspect that our views of what "religion" should be
    all about (as opposed to what most religions are all about) may differ
    somewhat.  I don't think I would be amiss to label the kind of
    spiritual pursuits you seek (to establish your own truth, beliefs,
    convictions, and experiences) as "religious", though.  It just might
    not be 'orthodox.'
    
>    >>	If they do exist, then they, moreso than any human, should be 
>    >>	aware of the true state of affairs in the spirit realm.
    
>    	Ah yes, but it's all matter of perception, is it not?  
    
    	No, I don't think so.  Either they exist, or they don't.  If they
    exist, they'll do so regardless of who does or does not perceive them.
    The problem is that since ouija-board spirits evidently have a
    propensity to lie to those that contact them, humans, having no direct
    way of verifying the truth of anything they say, are limitted by their
    individual, personal judgement.  This personal judgement might well be
    called "perception," but perception doesn't define reality.  Such
    perception is only an interpretation of (or reaction to) reality (or
    what we might be told is reality).
    
>    	                                   It may be easier to take an 
>    	airplane from Point A to Point B, but I'll miss a heckuva lot of 
>    	scenery and experiences, not to mention be putting faith in the 
>    	pilot, since I am unqualified (at present) to fly the plane on my 
>    	own.
    
    	At the moment, it's not my intention to lecture people as to what
    'trips' they should or should not take.  Speaking generally, though,
    it's not always necessary to take a particular trip to know [with a
    fair degree of certainty] that the trip is more trouble than it's
    worth.  Laurel's reply, which is evidently based on personal
    experience, seems to confirm this general notion.  If you've had a
    different experience, then so be it -- but that gets off the subject of
    my original inquiry.
    
>    >>	As to my "p.s.," it was meant somewhat rhetorically, since it's
>    >>	obvious that a good many noters have no fear whatsoever of ouija 
>    >>	board communication.  To me, that doesn't seem to be a very sensible
>    >>	attitude, but then, that's just my opinion.
>
>    	Cautionary practices are always advised, but fear?  Similar to
>    	worrying, I haven't found it accomplishes much other than to focus
>    	negative energy on a situation.  ...
>    	I'm not overly fond of what negativity attracts in *any* realm!
    
    	Well, if it's necessary to use cautionary practices, there must be
    some danger, or at least the potential for danger.  Fear of negative
    consequences needn't be an abject, quaking fear; but rather, it can be
    viewed as having a healthy respect for something that could easily
    go out of control.  Sometimes negativity "attracts" safety.
    
    								-mark.

    
    
    Mark,
    
      I have been using a Ouija board a couple of years now.I have several
    hundred pages of material written down.My experience tells me that
    I must understand that i am dealing with other souls,individual
    personalities,each one different.Therefore,i must relate to them
    just as i would meeting other souls here on this plane.A relationship
    must be established over a period of time,in order to know the person.
    In this way you are able to discern whether you believe what they
    may tell you.
      To answer your question,Yes,i have asked that question.Whether
    you will believe it,is your choice to make.I was told that "God
    loves all religions that are based on his basic commandments"If
    you look at all the established religions and their basic moral
    standards,you will find a common set of rules,common to all.They
    are all influenced by his spirit.God deals with us each individually
    based on whether we follow those basic commands,whatever we may
    believe.
    
      Peace
      Michael
    

    
    Thanks Mike, for providing the answer to the question that Mark
    asked, which seemed to have almost gotten lost back in the defensive
    rhetoric somewhere.
          
    Just my own opinion/observation - there were quite a number of
    assumptions made by everyone involved in the last oh, 15 notes or
    so - assumptions that seemed to me to be a little unfair, and then
    the whole issue became compounded (which is usually evident when
    people start extracting and replying to prior messages....again
    just my own observation).
    
    Could we perhaps adopt an "I'm OK, you're OK" attitude with regard
    to using a ouija board please?  In other words - it's OK for those 
    who wish to use a ouija board, and it's OK for those who do not wish 
    to use a ouija board.  I happen to be in the latter group for my 
    own valid reasons, however I will not pass judgment upon those who 
    do use ouija boards.
    
    OK?
    
    Cindy

    Re .53 (Cindy):
    
    >Could we perhaps adopt an "I'm OK, you're OK" attitude with regard
    >to using a ouija board please?  In other words - it's OK for those 
    >who wish to use a ouija board, and it's OK for those who do not wish 
    >to use a ouija board.  I happen to be in the latter group for my 
    >own valid reasons, however I will not pass judgment upon those who 
    >do use ouija boards.
     
    Cindy, I don't think I ever "passed judgement" on those who use
    Ouija boards.  I did and have posted cautions about them, specifically
    that I don't consider them toys or parlor games, and that treating
    them as such is not a good idea.
    
    However, if someone asked me, "I've never used a Ouija board, and
    I wonder whether or not I should," I'd probably advise against him
    or her doing so.  But not that this person has not _yet_ used one.
    
    As for those that have, it certainly would be presumptious of me
    to say, "Stop that!"
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    Um...Steve...I didn't mention your name or anyone elses.   It was
    just meant as a general observation, that's all.
    
    Don't feel so guilty!  (;^)  You're OK.
    
    Cindy

    Yeah, Steve.  You're way past OK - all the way up to OKEY-DOKEY!
    
    Marion

    re: .51 (Mark)

    >>	Well, in that case, you can't really address my questions 
    >>	directly, can you?  But perhaps no one can.

	*You* can.  8-)
    
    >>	I don't think I would be amiss to label the kind of spiritual 
    >>	pursuits you seek ... as "religious", though.  It just might
    >>	not be 'orthodox.'

	I'd be happier with spiritual pursuits rather than religious.
	Call it semantics, but the word "religion" inspires thoughts
	of churches, boundaries, and restrictions.  But that's just
	me!

    >>	The problem is that since ouija-board spirits evidently have a
    >>	propensity to lie to those that contact them

	I would say that people who get on a Ouija board and ask for
	"whoever is out there" are not using good judgement in their
	practices.  Somewhat similar to walking down a street wearing 
	a blindfold and calling out for strangers to gather round and
	answer questions.  Not necessarily advisable, eh?  However, I
	believe we all have guides (guardian angels, if you like) who
	travel with us throughout lifetimes.  Because I don't ask my 
	guides for advice nor ask futuristic questions (they wouldn't 
	give such answers anyway) I'm not concerned with being lied to.  
	My guides are lovingly present in my life for positive support.  
	As Mike said, you build a relationship with them, you learn 
	about their personalities and energy, and you develop a level 
	of trust.

    >>	Speaking generally, though, it's not always necessary to take 
    >>	a particular trip to know [with a fair degree of certainty] 
    >>	that the trip is more trouble than it's worth.  

	I agree.  But my point had to do with not taking shortcuts or
	looking for easy answers, something you mused Ouija board
	users could be after.

    >>	Well, if it's necessary to use cautionary practices, there must 
    >>	be some danger, or at least the potential for danger.  

	Seems you're intent on labelling the Ouija board as negative.
	Many people seek thrills, many people find thrills.  Whatever
	you're into is what you'll find no matter what tools you use.
	At least in my experience.

						Peace,  Carla

    re .57 (Carla)
    
>    >>	Well, in that case, you can't really address my questions 
>    >>	directly, can you?  But perhaps no one can.
>
>	*You* can.  8-)
    
    	Can do, but won't. :)
    
    	I absolutely agree that the word "religion" tends to inspire
    thoughts of "churches, boundaries, and restrictions", but it's still
    sufficiently broad a word to apply to more unstructured "spiritual
    pursuits."  It appears to be true that many people have simply replaced
    'structured' spiritual pursuits for 'unstructured' (or less orthodox)
    ones.  It strikes me that many of the pursuits advocated by DEJAVUers,
    though being very "unbounded" by ecclesiastical authority, are still
    somewhat ritualistic.  The associated ritualism alone could easily lead
    one to see them as "religious."  (Is not paganism an alternate form of
    religion when contrasted to the world's major monotheistic religions?)
    
>	I would say that people who get on a Ouija board and ask for
>	"whoever is out there" are not using good judgement in their
>	practices.  Somewhat similar to walking down a street wearing 
>	a blindfold and calling out for strangers to gather round and
>	answer questions.  Not necessarily advisable, eh?
    
    	I find it easy to agree with this statement.
    
>	                                                    However, I
>	believe we all have guides (guardian angels, if you like) who
>	travel with us throughout lifetimes.  Because I don't ask my 
>	guides for advice nor ask futuristic questions (they wouldn't 
>	give such answers anyway) I'm not concerned with being lied to.  
>	My guides are lovingly present in my life for positive support.
    
    	The thing about this is that neither you nor I has the ability to
    confirm whether or not the spirits that act like "guardian angels" are
    any more legitimate than someone that comes to the beckonning of a
    blindman in the street.  You are still simply taking them at their word
    as to who they are (if they have said who they are), or you are simply
    believing the inclinations of your imagination.
    
    	Now, since you feel that they have been a loving and positive
    influence in your life, I'm not going to argue with you about it, since
    1) that would truly be negative :-) and 2) I don't feel the need to
    impose my reservations on the whole matter of spirit contact upon you. 
    (My stating that I have reservations is no need for you to get
    defensive, in other words.)
    
>	I agree.  But my point had to do with not taking shortcuts or
>	looking for easy answers, something you mused Ouija board
>	users could be after.
    
    	Actually I didn't intend to make any assertions at all about what
    Ouija board users could be after.  I think you've read more into my
    comment about "easy answers" than I had intended.
    
>	Seems you're intent on labelling the Ouija board as negative.
    
    	If you mean that I'm intent on convincing YOU that using the Ouija
    board is negative, you're wrong.  True, I see it as dangerous, but
    that's only my own view, which I have made no attempt to make binding
    upon you or upon anyone else.  My only goal was to see if anyone was in
    a position to answer my original questions.
    
    	There's no need for everyone to be so defensive.
    
    								grins,
    								-mark.

    re: .58 (Mark)
    
    	Sorry Mark, I didn't mean to come across as defensive!
    
    >>	The thing about this is that neither you nor I has the ability 
    >>	to confirm whether or not the spirits that act like "guardian 
    >>	angels" are any more legitimate than someone that comes to the 
    >>	beckonning of a blindman in the street.  
    
    	I agree.  But I would (hopefully) know within a matter of time 
    	whether I liked and/or trusted the person who approached me, 
    	assuming I was the blindman in this scenario.
    
    >>	you are simply believing the inclinations of your imagination.
    
    	Can be quite self-amusing at times, often very fulfilling.
    	=8*)
    
    >>	(My stating that I have reservations is no need for you to get
    >>	defensive, in other words.)
    
    	No worries!
    
    						Peace,  Carla
    

RE: .57, .58

About the word religion... (this is a quote from _The_Power_of_Myth_).

<begin quote>
MOYERS:  Well then, what is religion?

CAMBELL: The word "religion" means religio, linking back.  If we say it is
the one life in both of us, then my separate life has been linked to the
one life, religio, linked back.  This has become symbolized in the images
of religion, which represent that connecting back.
<end quote>

I didn't like the word either until I understood what it really meant.
I have to say that my spritual quest *is* an attempt to link my Self back
to The Source, First Cause, God, the Absoulte (or whatever one chooses to
call It), therefore, in this context, it is a religious quest...

Terry (playing_with_semantics)

     
    I mean this without insult to anyone, I don't understand why a game
    board made by Parker Brothers is part of a link between two levels
    of exsistence.  Would the same effect occur if people sat around
    a Monopoly board?  How is it that this concept developed?
    

    Re .61:
    
    The Ouija was developed when there was a high interest in spiritism.
    It evolved from the planchette, where a simpler planchette with
    a pencil was used to enable people to write out  messages [whether
    what was coming out was "channeled" information or from Something
    Else is not relevant; what is relevant is that the methodology was
    known].  The Ouija Board  was just meant as a simple and nonambiguous
    way of receiving messages.
              
    >.........  Would the same effect occur if people sat around
    >a Monopoly board?
     
    No.  An analogy: years ago, you could by "chemistry sets."  These
    were available over the counter at toy stores.  With such sets,
    you could amuse yourself with tricks (e.g., "turning water to wine"
    or vice versa using phenolthalein), making things of some utility
    (e.g., making "invisible inks"), or even manufacturing dangerous
    substances (all had the ingredients necessary for producing gunpowder,
    for instance).  Does the fact one bought the set at a toy store
    prevent it from being used destructively?  Likewise the Ouija: there
    was an _intense_ interest in things involving spirits when it came
    out.  Parker Brothers manufacture(d) it as something to be used
    for entertainment; that it may be something more is something else.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    re .61:
    
    I don't know, but somehow whenever *I* play Monopoly, I can feel
    the spirits welling up inside me. Indeed, I might say that Monopoly
    *does* bridge the gap between levels of reality.  Imagine a reality
    where Atalantic City is arranged in a humoungous square, with the
    county jail at one corner.  For the effort of going through this
    mystical city block, you are paid 200 dollars (provided you are
    not on your way to Jail).  You can own railroads without trains,
    and pay for utilities that do not exist.  *Very* Zen-like.  The
    streets are straightand paved in colors and every building is a
    stark green house or a monolithic red hotel.  These identical buildings
    are everywhere!  If you are really lucky, you'll make it to the
    boardwalk.  People are transported in what appear to be hats, shoes
    and racing cars around and around, eternally exchanging brightly
    colored currency for the privilege of existing in this strange world.
    
    :-)
    
    - Dan

RE: .63  (Dan)


	Sounds more like the 'Twilight Zone'...
	
	Terry

    re: .62  Mr. Kallis, I do not think your analogy fits.  A test tube
             or two of gunpowder and applied flame can loose you body parts.
             "Misuse" of an ouija board (an MB special or an ornate
             hand-made one) does what?  Sounds like we need a note on
             Bad Ouija Board Experiences to get the feel of the
             consequences of misuse.  Has anyone, using an O board, 
             contacted a "spirit" whose becoming a spirit was directly
             related to the misuse of his/her board while on the physical
             plane?
                                             
    re: .63  Change a few words and you could enter it in a Dream or
             Mystical Experience note.  Well done!
    
    My experience with an O board was indirect (the planchette just
    sat there when I tried it) and was odd to say the least. Some of
    the questions asked of it were accurately answered (nothing heavy; 
    just a bunch of guys with time one their hands and no burning
    questions); half were posed w/o knowing the answers but were confirmed 
    later.  This was in 1969, and I had no further interest in it, chalking
    it up to coincidence.  Lately I've leaned of those who positively will 
    not have one in their home.  A singular reaction to flat pieces of 
    plastic and pressed board.  
                                
    Is the movie WITCHBOARD based on a actual occurance?  :-)
    
    							Don 

>Mr. Kallis, I do not think your analogy fits.  

"Mr. Kallis" ???

How do you know it's not "DR."  ?

:-) 

    Re .65 (Don):
    
             >.............. Sounds like we need a note on
             >Bad Ouija Board Experiences to get the feel of the
             >consequences of misuse. ...
              
    I think in some of the current notes there are already examples.
    
    You might want to check out notes 242, 421, 433, 476, and 499.
    
    >Is the movie WITCHBOARD based on a actual occurance?  :-)
    
    No.  I've reviewed it in this and in the MOVIES Conference.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.                                         

    I'm not a Ouija board user.....I don't know if I ever will be...however
    I must admit my interest sure has been sparked by this conference.
     At the start, there were some *really* great "accountings" of peoples
    experiences with the Ouija board, and very interesting opinions
    of various situations.  
    
    My point:  haven't we gotten a bit off the subject here?  Do we
    have to analyze everyones comments & remarks.  How about getting
    back to some *good* Ouija board experiences??? That IS what this
    note is about, right????
    
    Interested Observer
    

In my early teens, a friend of mine and I used the OUIJA to ask who we were 
going to marry.  I had a crush on a guy named Ron at the time, so when I saw 
R-O as the first two letters, I got thrilled, but then the third letter was a 
D.  I thought, Oh No!  and was disappointed.

A little over a year ago, I started seeing Rod, and we are making wedding plans 
now.

;-)

    
    >  Is the movie WITCHBOARD based on a actual occurance?  <
       
    
    The movie is such a turkey, don't even bother to find out.
    
    
    John M.

    
    I could write a book on my Ouija experiences.I have entered several
    in this conference.The only way to know about something like this,is
    to experience it.I have.Just last night i communicated with a girl
    who was a slave in the 1800s.
      Just one experience i had that i think is quite interesting.I
    once asked my contact where my son was,and,he discribed who he was
    with,and where.Later i confirmed it with my son.I did not know the
    people he was with.
      To tell my story,would take about 500 pages.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    I have to echo some of Steve's sentiments here.
        
    It takes a lot of energy to move a plachette and typically lower astral
    entities have energy to shed. These entities can be sportive too,
    somtimes telling the truth and other times leading one on a merry
    chase. 
    
    I am working with a fearful woman who made contact with an 18th century
    opera singer Bob who says that see will not find a sastifying
    relationship with a man until after she dies. Nice story! 
          
    We have pointed out that she will have to let go of this connection
    before it drives her insane (by manifesting himself in her reality
    sphere uninvited).
    
    The moral here is that if one wants to communicate with higher powers
    they should communicate with those entities that have already learned
    to economize their remaining energy, ie, sporting is a waste of energy
    so they give truthful and correct answers the first time or better yet
    they do not communicate with the physical.
    
    Still one has a choice and the adventure lies in following a path to
    its end to see what's there. Just remember that on the lower astral all
    sorts of ickky things abound. Have your 8 gauge astral elephant gun
    ready. B^) 

    
    
      ref .72
    
    
    If BOB could convince her of that,and,she took her life,she would
    be on his level,which is what he wants.She is in a very vulnerable
    position,and,if THEY see this,they will work on her.This is one
    of the dangers of using the Ouija.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    
                          -< Hmmmm, interesting! >-
    
    
    	I have read this topic with an interest which caused me to remember
    an Ouija experience of my own.
    
    	I was a child when it happened.  My family was given an Ouija
    board by a neighbor, my parents had no interest in 'the thing' so
    it was stored away and forgotten.  We never really had any interest
    in such things - being from a proper 'christian' family - so my
    sisters and I weren't all that curious about the Ouija board.
    
    	That is until one day a friend of my sister spotted it in our
    basement and was intensely excited about trying it - for fun(!).
    Well, we saw no harm in it and proceded to follow the instructions
    of play.  At first we had no response, but we soon found that the
    planchette worked for a certain pairing of us at the board at a
    time!  The best responses were obtained when my younger sister and
    I were partnered at the board - I couldn't believe it actually moved!
    
    	We continued to play 'the game' for weeks - asking silly childrens'
    questions.  I don't remember any of the questions we asked, except
    for one - "Who is answering our questions?".
    
    	'D O N ' T   A S K', was the reply.  Were we ever spooked by
    that answer.  Needless to say, we never played the Ouija again.
    But, now I wonder if the spirit was kind enough to warn us against
    continued play so that we can avoid future harm?  From reading previous
    notes it does seem that it was a danger for us then.  I don't delve
    into such 'occult' activities and don't really mean any real harm,
    but I do have an interest - I find this a curiosity!
    
    	Any opinions?
    
    
    
    					Regards,
    
    					Anthony
    

    HI ANTHONY,
    
     It is possible that the spirit was warning you.It would be interesting
    to know how many people use the OUIJA board on a regular basis,and,for
    what reason.
     I wonder if any scientific study has ever been done on Ouija boards?
    I could tell you some responses i've gotten that would stand the
    hair up on the back of your neck!
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    re: .75 (Michael) 
      
         You know, Michael, I've been reading your replies since the
    first time I entered these notesfiles one and a half years ago
    and I am somewhat puzzled.  What I am puzzled about is why it is
    that you choose to dabble in so much negativity?  You have repeatedly
    indicated that there are dangers and that there are "demons" who
    warn about "hell" and other negative concepts/ideas/places and
    yet you continue to use the OUIJA as a source for what?  enlightenment?
    [Please note that the "Tone" of this is supposed to be mild, not
    confrontational or abusive...I'm just not sure of how to ask this
    in a serious manner and not sound that way.]
      
         Surely there are better sources of information than OUIJA boards,
    aren't there?  I mean, we keep talking about positivism and
    hope and spirituality (in the positive sense) and yet OIUJA boards
    clearly are a mixed bag...there are other "bags" available on this
    plane, in this reality, that aren't even a little bit negative.
    Why not access them, instead?  It's almost as though you "get off"
    on the negative potentials...
     
         Any truth for you in what I say?
    
    Frederick
    

    < Note 891.0 by FRICK::ROSADO >
                               -< Ouija boards >-

    As I wrote in another notesfile (before I finally figured out
    how to add dejavu to my files), the ouija board really works. 
    How many of you have ever tried using one? I mean, just as a 
    game, not like I'm REALLY into this, but I've tried it a couple
    of times with a friend of mine (years ago). Both of us were
    convinced that the OTHER person was moving the triangle. 
    It has to played in a dark, quiet, room and you have to both
    concentrate. (No laughing). And ask serious questions, not 
    like: Whats tonights lottery number or when is the world gonna
    end. A couple of times I used the board by myself (Yes, it worked
    I Knew I wasn't moving it). Well, I gave up fooling around with
    it when it was getting just a bit too scary. (Ever watched the 
    movie "Witchboard" on HBO? I'm talking hearts pounding here.
    Has anything really scary happened to you using Ouija?

    < Note 891.1 by FHQ::OGILVIE "The EYES have it!" >
                              -< NEVER AGAIN.... >-

    
    
    I'll have to just "sum" this one up real quick:
          
    When I was fifteen and my "boyfriend's" sister was fourteen, we
    both figured we "fool" around with my ouija board.  Summing it up,
    her "boyfriend" (also my neighber) was going to be in a car accident
    on a street beginning with the letter "W".
          
    A couple of months later, she and her brother were killed in a car
    accident, driven by my neighbor.....on Water Street!
          
    That was IT!!  Into the trash it went......I wouldn't allow a ouija
    board in my house ever again!
          
    Cheryl

    Anthony, that reply you got was weird. When I used the board, 
    the first question I asked it was: what is your name? Then I ask, 
    how old are you? My boards name was Samuel,when I asked his <--(?)
    age, it said: 17. I mean, every board has a name. Keep in mind
    of course that these "names of the boards" are dead people. Now
    don't even THINK of trying the Ouija by yourself. I've tried that.
    NO WAY, EVER AGAIN. At first, I figured, oh this isn't so bad. here
    I've got a board who calls  itself Samuel....no problem.....
    
    I know a lot of people who would laugh this off but until you really
    try it.......I wonder about the person who invented this game...wonder
    how it works, how it knows things.........
    
    

    
    RE: -1
    
    	Yes, it was weird.  I can almost refeel the chill up my back
    and the sence of someone nearby - watching.
    
    
    RE: .75
    
    	Yes, tell me more.
    
    
    
    					Regards,
    
    					Anthony
        

    
    Fredrick,
      Well,to me,my experience has been enlightening,in that,i have
    learned quite a bit in the process,not only about myself,but also
    of others.I see my experience as dealing with the negative aspects,
    and,at the same time getting some positive use of it,such as my
    making contact with my father thru "JIM",and also my first wife
    as well as the mother of a good friend.It helped my friend and her
    family to deal with her death.
      It would be hard to explain the relationship i have with "JIM"
    without spending several hours explaining it.I will say that for
    me,i have a great curiousity about whats happening in the spirit
    world,and,the Ouija board has given me some insight into it.If i
    had gotten totally negative from my experience,i probably would
    have put the board away.
      I continue to warn people of the board,because,if you dont know
    what you are dealing with,it could be hurtful to you.I have two
    boards,one which i use very seldom,since all the spirits i have
    talked to on it have been very evil.
      I dont think i will repeat what i was told by that board,since
    it could be upsetting to some who read this conference.
      I dont spend much time now on the board,only occasionally.
      This might be interesting,or,it may have been a coincidence,but,
    my contact once told me that Satan was in Pakistan.The very next
    day i read in the news paper that the President of Pakistan was
    killed in an airplane crash.Now they are saying that the plane was
    sabotaged,but,didnt know how or with what.
    
    
      

    re: .81
    
         Mike, thanks for the reply.  Clearly the board has had
    a great deal of value for you.  
         I tend to look for the greatest value at times, without
    recognizing or acknowledging "other" values...and greatest values
    to me may not be so to someone else.  In any case, what I was
    attempting to convey and you helped clarify is:  avoid using the
    OIUJA board unless it is known precisely what one is attempting
    to find out and, if known, is this the most elegant way to do so?
    Moreover, information coming from the board may not be of high
    quality, and this needs to be kept in mind.  
         Does this appear to be a fair approach?
                               
    
    Frederick
    

    Fredrick,
      I can only speak from my own viewpoint,based on my experience.Of
    course,that could change at any time.I would say you have expressed
    what i feel about it,as of today.We should always proceed causiously
    when dealing with things we have little understanding of.We must
    decide what we do in life,whether evil or good,based on our personal
    values and beliefs.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    
      

    
    Hi Mike,
    
       I have an amazing curiousity for the board.  As a matter of fact
    I'm about to embark on my first adventure this evening.  Is there
    anything you can tell me that will give me a reasonably "good"
    experience ???  I'll be using it with a friend of mine that has
    used a board of her own.  She's been in contact with a rather
    undesirable fellow.  We'll be using a different board tonight and
    she's wondering if this guy will appear even though we aren't using
    her board.  What do you think ?????
    
    "D"

    
    Hi "D",
      There are several places in this conference that talks about safety
    and discusses methods.Many have suggested visualizing being surrounded
    by white light,or,praying for protection from any negative
    influence.You might want to read all the entrys on Ouija,if you
    havnt already.
      Its not likely you will have the same person that your friend
    has on her board.Each board has a different spirit assigned to it,
    but different ones may be assigned at different times,so,if you
    were not using the board for a while,you might find someone different
    the next time you used it.
      I have had "JIM",who is my contact,break in on a conversation
    i was having with someone on another board.I also have had
    conversations with the contact on my neighbors board,thru "JIM".
    Some spirits have more than one board assigned to them.My contact
    "JIM" has several.He even had one in the same town.He told me who
    the person was,and,where they lived.I checked it out and found it
    to be true.I didnt make contact with the person who had the board,
    since i had promised "JIM" that i wouldnt.It was a matter of trust,
    and,he wanted to show me that he was real.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    
      

    
    Hi Mike,
    
       Thanks for the reply !  My friend is a little more experienced
    in using the board than I am.  Although, she still isn't sure how
    to start.  I had some success last night in speaking with my
    Grandmother.  It sure was an eerie feeling !  I wanted her to prove
    to me that it was really her so I asked questions that only she
    would know.  Something interesting happened too.  She asked me to
    help her and when I asked her what she wanted, she said "Come Now".
    I probably should have asked her where she wanted me to go but I
    didn't think of it till later.  
    
       Tell me, is it ever possible to contact someone when only one
    of the persons using the board believes ???  And is it advisable
    to use the board by yourself ???  Before I spoke with my Grandmother
    we got some strange responses.  Someone was definitely there but
    we couldn't get the person to tell us who he or she was.  The board
    made no sense at all.  At one point, there was someone there that
    we thought may speak a foreign language.  When we questioned the
    person the board went to the number 6, twice in a row, and the place
    it stopped next was between the 5 and 6.  I'm not really up on the
    subject of you know who but my friend said that three 6's is REAL
    BAD.  Will a person build a relationship with a spirit based on
    how often the board is used ????  I'm really looking forward to
    using the board again though.  I just hope I continue to have good
    experiences.  Have you had any not so good experiences ????
    
    "D"

    
    "D",
    
    I dont know if you have read all the Ouija entries yet,but,you will
    find quite a few of mine,which will tell you what i believe concerning
    the boards.I have had some contacts that were not good,and,had to
    terminate our contact.I have communicated with one that knew German,
    and would,at times,spell out in German,and i would have to ask him
    to translate.I'm curious if your grandmother told you anything that
    would prove it was her?The boards have spirits that control it,and,it
    is through them that you would get contact,and,only if she was on
    the same spirit plane.The 666 response would be in accord with my
    belief.Usually there is more energy with 2 people working the board,
    so,it makes for better contact.It would take some time to get to
    know the spirit,and,whether it would be willing to develop a
    relationship with you.You would have to be very careful to scrutinize
    your communication with it.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    
    Hi Mike,
    
       These are things I asked my grandmother......
    
    What is my mother's name ???
    When was she born ??  Month ?? Day ??
    What day did you leave us ??   Month ?? Day ??
    What year were born ??
    What's my boyfriend's name ??  (When she died I was married)
    
       She got all the answers right !   Do you think it could not have
    been her ???  
    
    Debbie
                                    

    
    I have a rather naive question - 
    
   Don't you have to ask for answers that you yourself might not know
    but could check up on later? Since you're one of the people controlling
    the planchette, it would seem to me that the disposition would be
    to supply (subconsciously) answers that you already knew. 
    
    Gloria

    
    Debbie,
    
     I think the only way you would know,would be to remember your
    grandmothers mannerisms and personality.After a time you can sense
    these things.I would hope that it wasnt,because its not a very good
    place to be.It could be that if you own the board,the spirit gathered
    imformation on you and your family,in order to trick you when you
    used it.I have had my contact ask me things about things that took
    place in our house,when we were not on the board.One time he told
    us something our son had done while we were away from home.Dont
    you think our son was surprised!
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

RE: Last bunch.

    Debbie, you can believe whatever you wish, and I would be the last
    person to call you foolish or to in any way look down on you.  I
    certainly have no monopoly on the truth, and my opinions could easily
    be wrong, but consider the alternatives. 

    First off, I think it important to keep in mind that Michael is
    speaking from his own experience (as he would be the first to say).
    When, for example, he says that each spirit is associated with a
    particular board that is what he has found to be true and/or has been
    told by the personalities he has "spoken to" through the board. Others
    have had the same experience, but still others (perhaps a slight
    majority) have a radically different experience -- that the people
    using the board (as a group, and including, to some extent "active
    onlookers"), along with their intentions and mood determines who they
    contact and whatever board they use is largely irrelevant. Similarly,
    the cosmology discovered by each independent group of users through the
    use of the Ouija board tends to be quite substantially different,
    though most are based on the basic Judaic/Christian model (I know of no
    studies of cosmological models developed from Ouija or related
    techniques from "operators" with non Judaic/Christian backgrounds -- it
    would be interesting). 

    There are basically 7 theories about how the Ouija works: 

	1) It doesn't.

	2) It's fraud on the part of one or more of the operators.

	3) It is the result of expectations on the part of the operators
	   manifesting through a level just below the conscious.

	4) It is the result of a complex subconscious interaction among
	   the operators, and others present, effected by group dynamics,
	   expectations, desires, fears, knowledge and beliefs manifesting
	   through multiple levels of the subconscious -- from the almost
	   conscious to very "deep" levels very divorced from the conscious
	   personality.

	5) As in 4 but with the belief that some information comes into
	   the subconscious via ESP (telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition,
	   retrocognition, etc.)

        6) It is the result of subconscious manipulations but that those
	   manipulations are directed by personalities which are independent
	   of the operators.

	7) It is the result of direct manipulation of the planchette by
	   independent personalities who use the operators only as a
	   means of activation or as a source material energy.

    The questions you would want asked, Gloria (in .89), are those
    necessary to distinguish 4 or (more weakly 5) from 6 or 7.  The intent
    seems to be to determine the truth of the statements made by the
    spirits about their identity under 6 or 7.  Note that under 6, your
    questions would be more appropriate since it is reasonable to suppose
    that a spirit who can speak through your subconscious can pick up the
    answers to such questions the same way. 

    Without bothering with the details, we can say that people who believe
    in the first three possibilities are simply unfamiliar with Ouija
    boards.  Very little familiarity with them allows brings about
    observations inconsistent with those theories. 

    I personally, subscribe to 5.  There are very few cases of events
    inconsistent with number 4 and those are quite adequately explained by
    reference to 5.  A very, very few cases require a bit of stretching
    from 5.  Theories 6 and 7 are also consistent with all the available
    observations (indeed, its a little hard to imagine what observations
    they would be inconsistent with) but very frequently require a great
    deal of stretching to make them work. 

    Since almost everything needed for 5 to be true has already been
    established by other means, while almost everything needed for 6 and 7
    to be true is based entirely on the Ouija board or similar mechanisms
    (e.g., automatic writing).  Confidently I can say that the universe
    implied by 6 or 7 is orders of magnitude more complex than that implied
    by 5.  If someone sees another person drop a coin and you go over and
    look and find a quarter, you do not assume that they actually dropped
    another coin but a vast armada of spaceships arrived conquered the
    Earth, switched coins and forced everyone to go back to where they were
    moments before they arrived then blanked everyones mind of the event.
    It *might* be true, but when there is a much simpler explanation for
    everything you observe you can't say that you have any real evidence
    for the more complex explanation. 

    Four (and thus 5) is scary for a lot of people.  They are comfortable
    with the idea of the subconscious (i.e., that there are parts of their
    mind that they are not aware of and do not control) only if it is a
    little "closet" tucked away in the back, or at most a small dark
    cellar.  They are uncomfortable with the idea that the conscious --
    what they consider themselves -- is only a tiny piece of the whole
    mind, no more than the tiny vestibule on the front door of a vast
    skyscraper. 

    What 4 and 5 presume is that anything which the operators might have
    had the opportunity to learn, or guess or deduce (even if they would
    have to be very, very smart to make such a deduction) might be known to
    the subconscious.  Phrases in a foreign language, and sometimes even
    substantial amounts of the language, can, for example be picked up from
    very casual contact.  In addition, it can be shown that people can
    signal to each other using body language, so anything known by anyone
    in the room during a session is consistent with 4 -- without even
    invoking the ESP in 5. 

    Well I've rambled on quite long enough (longer actually). 

				    Topher

    
    I guess i would say that i believe 5-7,that is why i suggested that
    Debbie read all the Ouija material,to get a broader perspective.It
    is something we each have to decide for ourselves based on knowledge
    and experience.Like Topher says,its only my beliefs,based on my
    experience with it.Its an area that has no solid proof,but,a lot
    of theories.Perhaps at some point in time we will know for sure
    what we are dealing with.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    
    Hi,  I have been reading these Ouija notes for a while, and I have
    a question.  Where can I find information about Ouija boards?  I
    cant seem to find a book anywhere.  I had an Ouija board 4 years
    ago, used it a little without much luck.  It broke and I got another
    about a year ago, haven't used it yet.  Is there anywhere that I
    could get more information about this?
    
    Curious......Sheila

    In an earlier note my brother, Michael, told the story about my involvement
    with an entity named Charles Robert Hanover III. We have now been
    in continuous contact with Charles--via the Ouija board--for over
    three years.  All of the conversations have been taped and subsequently
    transcribed.  The transcriptions now fill two large three-ring
    notebooks, and we are now about to start on the third.  Suffice
    it to say that we have covered numerous fascinating (a weak adjective
    when describing this) subjects.  There is SO much I could tell you
    about Charles and our discussions with him.  However, given the
    limitations of space and the enormity of the subject matter involved,
    I will relate one story for your perusal and comment.
    
    In one of our sessions, Charles was holding forth on one of his
    favorite subjects: the ley line. VERY briefly, the ley line is one
    continuous line of "energy" which spirals around the earth. This
    line affects our world in the physical, mental, and--most
    importantly--spiritual realms.  In one example of the power of the
    ley line, Charles told of situation which occured in Czechslovakia in
    1944.  It seem that on a particular road in the countryside,
    automobiles would
    pass a certain spot on the road  and simply die--the engines would 
    stall out; the operators could not restart the engines, no matter
    how hard they tried.  This went on for months, and according to
    Charles, was a result in a shift in the Ley line.  What he found
    most humorous about this story was the fact that the Czechs believed
    that the neighboring Germans had developed some sort of "ray" which
    would enable them to zap their cars.  Charles told us that we could
    find an account of the story in the New york Times.  He gave us
    the month and the date of the issue.  The next day, I went to the
    Worcester public library and looked up the particular issue he had
    told us about.  I had to search through microfilm to find it, But
    I DID find it, in the exact issue where he said we'd find it--including
    the little aside about th "ray."  Wonderful story from a wonderful
    man 

     ref .93
      
     I have been able to find books on the Ouija board at the public
    library.
    
    Ref .94
    
     Thats an interesting story.Have you ever asked Charles about where
    he is,and,what its like there?
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    re: .81
    
    Go ahead, put it in.  Put an <FF> before it so we all have a choice.
    After all, we survived the end of the world...
    
    							Don

    Don,
    
      I am not going to put that in here,because i feel that it is not
    useful.I will say that it concerned the way in which he killed his
    wife.It is something I dont like to think about,that is,knowing
    how much evil exists around us.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    	Then why not focus on the POSITIVE?!  Man oh man I'm so tired
    	of these evil-obsessed people!  Lighten up!
    
    						  Carla
    

    Carla,
    
      I agree 100%,we need to focus on the positive,but,we need to know
    about the negative,in order to survive.Unfortunately,there is so
    much evil in the world,and,its getting worse.What are we to do?This
    is my plea,from a song I wrote:
            
        So lets turn away from anger and hate
        face our fears and change our destiny
        look towards tomorrow with faith and hope
        a new age of peace and joy
    
                          copywrite 1988
    
    I have learned from using the Ouija board,that,we have many challenges
    to face,and,what i have learned could some day help to turn the
    tide of evil.Knowing your foe and his activities is a good strategy.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    re: .97
    
    
    O.K., Mike, thanks for the clarification.  I wasn't interested
    in the gory details; I thought it was a revelation which you 
    thought would blast our eyes.  I always try to get as much data 
    as I can to base my opinions on.
    
    							Don

    Has any one tried this.  Blind fold everyone that sets at the Ouija
    board.  One person not setting at the board takes notes. The board
    is placed on the table but those setting with it will not know how
    it is facing.  After the questions and answers see what the persons
    who has taken notes has down.  It seems this way if the Ouija board
    is working there won't be any interferance from the people setting
    there.

    RE: 85 & 87
    
    I can just see all of these little "spirits" standing next the the
    Ouija Board assembly line, pointing their little "spirit" hands
    at the board of their choice, saying:  "that one is *mine*"....
    
    8*)                 8*)                  8*)
    
    Cheryl

    Cheryl,
    
      How did you know thats how they do it? :^)
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    I think the blindfolded test is a good idea.
    
    Really, why don't the spirits just move the planchette themselves?
    
    
    John M.

    I have tried being blindfolded while my wife read off the letters
    to me.It didnt make any difference.I havnt yet tried having a third
    party copy while we were both blindfolded.I think i will try this
    and let you know what happens.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    In an early reply someone mentioned a "spirit" is assigned to each
    board.  The assembly line comment triggered something:  In later
    reply people have stated the firsts contact wasn't making sense
    so a 2nd (or 3rd, etc.) "spirit" was requested.  Also, I'm getting
    the impression the "spirit" contacted has much to do with the person
    operating the board.  Very conflicting; or is it (d), All of the
    above?
    
    						Don

    I havnt been in contact on my board in the last few weeks.Some of
    the things that my contact says just doesnt make logical sense,and,
    i question it.However,when we talk about television to him,he doesnt
    understand how all those things get in that small box.Just as it
    is hard to explain television to him,its as hard for him to explain
    his world to me.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Mike,
      Does your contact in the other world beleive he will return to
    earth in a physical form? what is his (?) feelings or am I being
    presumptious in assuming that you communicated with him (?) about
    this. also can he be reached via another board just curious. can
    any enity you wish to speak to be reached this way?
                                            Bill-

    Bill,
    
      My contact says that you cannot return to the physical plane from
    his plane,but,you can from higher levels than his.I have communicated
    with him on another board.My contact says that if I wished to
    communicate with someone it would be two possible ways,either directly
    on the board,if the person is on his plane,or,by message,if they
    are on a higher plane than his.I have communicated with family members
    by both methods.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

RE: .107 (Michael)

    >  However,when we talk about television to him,he doesnt understand
    how all those things get in that small box.  < 

But he does understand how to communicate through a ouija board.


That hound don't hunt.

John M.
    

    
    Yes,John,he does know how to communicate using the Ouija.I know
    how to access this conference,but,dont ask me how it all works.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    I recall when we used our ouija board, there was a single spirit
    through which we contacted all other spirits.  He would "access
    them" for us.  I assumed that all ouija boards had a single spirit
    that acted as a go-between, but I'm sure I could be wrong.
    
    -Jody
    

    In other words, there are spirits that act as network routers for
    oujii boards?
    
    Kind of like spiritual LATs?  :-)
    
    Brings a whole new meaning to $SET GHOST :-)

                                     
    	(sorry, couldn't resist.  I blame it all on a goofy mood :-) )
                                                                    
    	-Bill

    RE: .113
    
    "Set ghost."   Hahahahahahaha!
    
    What do these spirits do when not talking on the board?
    
    John M.

    
    John,
    
    When they are not on the board,they are having very spirited parties
    ;^) .
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    
        One of the dumbest things I ever did was asked a Ouja board
        how old I was going to be when I died...I was only about 8 or
        9 years old when I did it (I think my babysitter was playing
        with it).  Sure do regret it - because I don't think I"ll ever
        be able to get that age out of my mind!  Maybe I'll be senile 
        by that time ...    ;')  Oh well...I don't recommend asking
        such a question to anyone else.
    
                                                  Bill P.
      
    

    re: .107
    
    Mike, When you say he has trouble describing his world, is that
    where he is now or where he was before?  I'd say it would be easier
    for you to understand his time on earth than he yours.
    
    Which brings me to another thought:  What is the percentage of spirits
    communicated with ex-earthians?  Or have they always been where they
    are now, or did they come from someplace else?
                                                          
    Do they commute?
    
    Maybe someone should suggest the spirits assign themselves to computer
    boards instead of Ouija boards.  :-)
    
    The next time the spirit moves you (sorry), try a hand on the 
    keyboard and a hand on the Ouija board.  If it can make a planchette 
    and 2 hands move it should be able to push keys.  It can interpret 
    the words/letters on an O board so it should be able to do the same
    for a keyboard and doesn't have to know how the computer puts 
    letters on the screen.
    
    Just doing my bit to bring Spiritualism into the '80s.  ;-)
                                   
    							Don

    Don,
    
    I meant that my contact has trouble decribing his spirit world in
    a way that I could understand.He can describe his world on earth
    and I can relate to it.All the spirits I have communicated with
    all say they had an earthly life.Each one has a story to tell,and,
    each story coincides with the time period that they lived,right
    down to little details.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    re. 117 by STRATA::RUDMAN "The Posthumous Noter"
                                                    
>    Maybe someone should suggest the spirits assign themselves to
>    computer boards instead of Ouija boards.  :-)                       
 
    Apparently, alot of them have done just that. Just look at all the
    "channeled" books that are being published.
    
    	- Bill             

    RE: <.113>
    
    
    $	SET G*HOST LAUGHTER::SPIRITED
    
    hahahahahaahahah!
    
    T
    

    
    I am new to this note and enjoy it.  I have a question concerning
    something that was mention way back in this file.  What is 
    "The Talent"?   I have had my cards read a few times in the last
    6 years, by 3 different readers, in 3 different areas and have been
    told that I possess this "Talent".  They have all suggested that
    I pursue the Occult but to be very careful for evil is close.
    I went to these card readers with an open mind, but I must say I'm
    alittle concerned.  I have been thinking about buying an Ouija board,
    but do not wish a bad experience.  I had few(what I would call)
    pyschic experiences in my life, but these readers say its something
    that I have not learned to tap into and in turn could be dangerous.
    I guess I'm quite baffled by this and could use some guidence before
    I embark on an Ouija board experience.  Can anyone help?
    
    K

Re: .121 THOTH::SCHRAGER - Knowledge please? 

Well K, you haven't had a reply yet, so here's my
five pen'worth.

> What is "The Talent"?   

I don't know. But, I would guess that in this context
it means some 'psychic ability'. How someone would know
this about you is another matter. 

The person(s) who told you "you have 'The Talent' - but watch out"
should, I think, have given you a bit more advice than that.

>     alittle concerned.  I have been thinking about buying an Ouija board,
>     but do not wish a bad experience.  I had few(what I would call)
>     pyschic experiences in my life, but these readers say its something
>     that I have not learned to tap into and in turn could be dangerous.
>     I guess I'm quite baffled by this and could use some guidence before
>     I embark on an Ouija board experience.  Can anyone help?

I would say get into this very carefully. Do some gentle meditation
(for example breath counting). Read some of the books 
mentioned in this conference. Respect and consider your dreams.
And if you *still* want to dabble with something as quirky as
ouija - then go ahead, but read all the good advice about that
in this conference first.
    
John D.

< Note 8.122 by FNYFS::DONALDSON "Okay! The green *rabbit* leaps..." >
                            -< ouija - yes? Or no? >-

Re: .121 THOTH::SCHRAGER - Knowledge please? 

Well K, you haven't had a reply yet, so here's my
five pen'worth.

> What is "The Talent"?   

I don't know. But, I would guess that in this context
it means some 'psychic ability'. How someone would know
this about you is another matter. 

The person(s) who told you "you have 'The Talent' - but watch out"
should, I think, have given you a bit more advice than that.

>     alittle concerned.  I have been thinking about buying an Ouija board,
>     but do not wish a bad experience.  I had few(what I would call)
>     pyschic experiences in my life, but these readers say its something
>     that I have not learned to tap into and in turn could be dangerous.
>     I guess I'm quite baffled by this and could use some guidence before
>     I embark on an Ouija board experience.  Can anyone help?

I would say get into this very carefully. Do some gentle meditation
(for example breath counting). Read some of the books 
mentioned in this conference. Respect and consider your dreams.
And if you *still* want to dabble with something as quirky as
ouija - then go ahead, but read all the good advice about that
in this conference first.
    
John D.

Hi COGITO::MCMENIMAN, perhaps you'd like to have another 
go at entering your reply - instead of mine! :-)

John D.

    I would like to report my experiences as far as spooks go etc,
    spiritualism has been in my family for many years, but none of us
    have really got in to it in depth, but I had one experience which
    frightened me to death.  I had gone to stay with some friends of
    mine, we had gone to bed and like all girls together we got chatting
    about this that and the other, anyway my friend put the light out
    and we all settled for the night, but not me, I lay there and I
    felt my whole body go very hot and then very cold, and I had this
    feeling of being totally paralysed, so on when the light and my
    friends thought that it could be the fact that I was laying between
    twin beds and that there could be a draft, so I shared one there
    beds, and sure enough as soon as the light went out it happened
    again, only this time it was more intense, carolyn, who I was sharing
    with couldn't believe the change in temperature on my body.
    
    When I went home, I spoke to my grandfather about it, and he said
    that what I had described was the feeling of a presence i.e. ghost,
    I must admit it really did frighten me and it was along time before
    I would go back to that house.
    
    Anybody else have any similar experiences.
    
    Regards
    
    Chrissie
                         

    re .125
    
    Not to make light, but I have had a similar experience--a fever.
    Also happens during dizzy spells related to nervousness or after
    over-exerting.
    
    -Keith
    

    Ok now I can say I read every single response.  It is funny, I have
    always been a skeptic of the weejee since it is sold in stores like
    Toys 'r' Us, I always thought it was harmless.  When I was young
    I wanted my parents to buy me one, but they always told me it is
    not good to dabble with the unknown.  Still I was skeptical.  Anyway
    buy reading this notes file and reading all the other noters
    experiences with the board...Now you all got me wondering, honest,
    reading some of these experiences sent chills up my spine.  A few
    months ago my husband were in Caldor's Department we were in the
    toy department and my husband had one in his hand....we both wanted
    to buy it...though we were hesitant, and even though I was skeptical
    about it, something inside of me said"Lynne don't...."  I am glad
    that I listened to that something inside...because after reading
    all these responses, I have to admit, I would not even attempt to
    purchase one...yes it is a frightening thing to dabble with, and
    I do agree with all the others that say that it can be a dangerous
    thing.
    
    I admit I do believe,
    
    Lynne S.

    Michael,
    
    you said you 'spoke' with family members thru the weejee.  I just
    wondered... can you contact someone that doesn't want to be contacted?
    Also, how would you go about contacting someone? I've never really
    used the board (when I was about 12 we asked it which boys liked
    us, etc, but not since then). I do have a family member I've though
    about contacting, but am not sure if I really want to. What if I
    find out something horrible.?
    
    Thanks for any input you may have
    Beth

    Re:  -1  
    
    Dave Stone (now Digital VP in Europe) once suggested I should never ask
    a question if I didn't want to hear the answer.  
        
    DR 

    
    
    
    
    
    I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE HISTORY OF THE OUIGA BOARD..ANYBODY GOT
    ANYTHING ON THAT?

    Hi Beth,
    
      I just saw your note.I havnt been reading much here lately.It
    isnt that easy to talk to relatives,especially if they are on higher
    planes.You would then have to use your contact to attempt to find
    them,which isnt easy either.I might have lucked out on the ones
    I have had contact with.I have tried others on my wifes side and
    mine,as well as a couple other people,but,have not been able to
    get in touch with them.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Thanks Michael,
    
    I guess it wouldn't be that easy.  Just as well, I'm kind of scared
    of using the Ouija anyway. I don't know enough.
    
    Thanks,
    Beth

    
    Beth,
    
      It can be scary,it has at times with my experiences,but,probably
    no more than what the first explorers from Europe,or,the first time
    astronauts venture into space.Life is an adventure for us all.Take
    care.
    
    Michael
    

    Thanks Michael, maybe when I find someone who knows a bit more and
    is experienced (none of my friends - that I know of- are much on
    this) I will try it. I'd like to learn more. But don't think I should
    fool around with it on my own.  Thanks, I'll let you know if anything
    comes up (or anyone!!!) 8-)
    Beth

    Over the last three years I have used the oujia board on many
    occasions. The problem being, I don't have a real board. My
    friends and I use a round table & pieces of paper. I have been
    told that it must be at least two or three people, is this true?
    Is this the case when using a real board ? 
        On one occasion when on holiday last year we were with people
    we'd met there. They wanted to join in, so we said o.k. We con-
    tacted a boy who they used to go to school with. By the end, all
    four lads were crying openly because of what they had experienced.
    It was the most convincing experience of oujia I have had.
        Finally, is it true that it is very dangerous to use the oujia
    for financial gain, i.e "What will win the Derby" ?
        Also, can anybody tell me WHERE I can get a ouija board in
    England.
        Also will it work if I do it on my own
    
    TONY ABSOLOM 
                  RDL, QUEENS HOUSE, READING, ENGLAND

    1. There is nothing "magic" that the manufacturer does, so I see no
    difference whether or not it is homemade.  Of course, the easier your
    "planchette" slips over the surface the better.
    
    2. I don't believe that it is any more dangerous to do it for money,
    but some operators find that the "spirits" are likely to be resistant
    or cagey about such information.  Also there is no reason to suppose
    that they will be particularly reliable.
    
    3. Have no idea where you can get it in England, but the manufacturer
    is Parker Brothers (in the U.S.)  Check at the library and see if they
    have British offices or affiliates.
    
    4. People generally find that it is much harder to work the board with
    one operator than with two.  It is not impossible, particularly if you
    have some practice working with other operators.
    
    5. This is your decision, but there have been many warnings posted in
    this conference.  You should read them and think about them.
    
    					Topher

    
    
    Ouija Boards are found in toy stores or the toy section in a department
    store.  They are usually found with games.
    
    Joanne
    

    Re .135
    
    I've said this in here before, and I'll go through this again.
    
    OUIJA BOARDS ARE DANGEROUS!  Even in the case that you experienced,
    you have no way of knowing that it really was your school friend
    you contacted, or if it was a good imitation.  Some of these beings
    are very nasty to deal with and to get out of your life.  There
    are other means to be sure of who you're contacting, and Ouija,
    especially when viewed as a parlor game, has none of these safety
    features.  It's essentially the same things as living in an inner-city
    tough neighborhood, and opening your door at midnight Saturday night,
    hoping to find someone interesting to visit with.  You might get
    someone nice, you might get a serial murderer.  You're doing the
    same thing in the spiritual realm.
    
    As for money, I suppose it would be a little more dangerous when
    using it for money, as spirits who have a high interest in greed
    tend to be worse than the "general" crowd.
    
    Elizabeth

	I dont know bout dis.

	It would seem to me that a spirit would have to be close to
	a person already if something like a ouija board were to be
	effective. 

	Or some emotional stress / vibration would have to be present
	to manifest such a result.

	In either case there is a spirit/energy showing itself that
	was there all along. Are these boards simply tools that tell us
	what is in the static around us? Possibly trying to get into our
	conscious? Spirits or emotional energies manifesting from without
	for our own ease in handeling or expressing them? Energies that we
	have drawn to ourselves? 

	Certainly in learning to like, accept and love ourselves we have
	drawn energies that could have taken the form of "shady charictors"
	;-) Is it possible that we have drawn or created these images from
	ourselves and only use the board to glimps them? When we look through
	the board do we see ourself? and our own creations/vibrations of our
	own energies returning as an echo from the deep?

	Can they possibly be of any more danger than we are to ourselves
	already? ;-)

    re .139 (CB):
    
        >It would seem to me that a spirit would have to be close to
	>a person already if something like a ouija board were to be
	>effective. 
        >
	>Or some emotional stress / vibration would have to be present
	>to manifest such a result.
        
    Well, assume you're out in the desert, weak from lack of thirst,
    and as you crawl along the sands, vultures start circling overhead.
    Seems that, using the observation, the vultures would have had to
    be close to you or they'd never appear....
    
    Any "I'm available" vibration, including an emotional turmoil, might
    be enough to attract spiritual predators or scavengers.
    
        >In either case there is a spirit/energy showing itself that
	>was there all along. ...
         
    See above anent vultures.
    
        >Certainly in learning to like, accept and love ourselves we have
	>drawn energies that could have taken the form of "shady charictors"
	>;-) Is it possible that we have drawn or created these images from
	>ourselves and only use the board to glimps them? When we look through
	>the board do we see ourself? and our own creations/vibrations of our
	>own energies returning as an echo from the deep?
         
    That's one possibility.  Another is that we're "tuning into" the
    shasdes of the departed (even then, you couldn't be sure whether
    it was _really_ the spirit you were after).  A third is that some
    other kind of supernatural entity is masquerading as a shade, and
    not to the benefit of the person "calling."
    
        >Can they possibly be of any more danger than we are to ourselves
	>already? ;-)
         
    Without the smiley face, yes.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

         
    RE .140 Steve E.
    
>    Well, assume you're out in the desert, weak from lack of thirst,
>    and as you crawl along the sands, vultures start circling overhead.
>    Seems that, using the observation, the vultures would have had to
>    be close to you or they'd never appear....
 
    I dont know if I understand. If I was in an emotional/psycological
    desert I would expect to see vultures. I again have placed myself
    in the desert... I have started the vibration by placeing myself
    there.. arn't the vultures a return of my innitial vibration of
    my mental/sprititual/emotional state?
    
    A GOOD ADVERTISEMENT FOR FOLKS GETTING SOME COUNSELING ECT IF
    SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING RESEARCH IN THIS AREA.
       
 >   Any "I'm available" vibration, including an emotional turmoil, might
 >   be enough to attract spiritual predators or scavengers.
  
    I again think it depends on the enviornment one is in personally.
    predators should always be watched and respected however we can
    deal with them if we ar physically and mentally fit...... another
    good advertisement.... 
     
   > That's one possibility.  Another is that we're "tuning into" the
   > shasdes of the departed (even then, you couldn't be sure whether
   > it was _really_ the spirit you were after).  A third is that some
   > other kind of supernatural entity is masquerading as a shade, and
   > not to the benefit of the person "calling."
     
    possibly. However if one truly has an intrest to do such things
    and takes things slowly and doubtfully ;-) it will possibly lead
    to a degree of self realization. Of course there are risks... some
    of which make it fun.
    
    >    >Can they possibly be of any more danger than we are to ourselves
    >	>already? ;-)
         
   > Without the smiley face, yes.
    
    ALWAYS WITH the smiley face... heaven forbid we take these things
    we dont understand seriously!!  ;-)
                     
    Craig

    
    > RE .140 Steve E.
    
    ?!?!? I havn't the slightest idea where the  "E." came from Steve.
    The "E" isn't even close to the "K" on the keyboard.
    
    Sorry... I dont know what got in to me. ;-)  

    Finally! I've just read through this entire note.  I'm wondering
    several things...I recall using a Ouija board as a child (can't
    remember the age exactly).  I used it with several friends, and
    even though we followed the instructions, none of us could ever
    get ANY response.  When I tried, nothing happened at all.  Over
    the years I had forgotten about it, until reading this note.
    
    I've always been fascinated by the paranormal, but growing up strict
    Catholic, that subject was severely frowned upon.  The entire group
    of us were all same religion...could that have had an effect on
    things?  We were all "God fearing" at that time.  Since then, many
    things have changed for me...and I've had interesting experiences
    with a card reader and a channelor.  (sorry, about to go somewhat
    offtrack)  Both of these women (who don't know each other) and who
    did readings a year and a half apart, told me the same things...things
    which no one else could know.  They both told me that I have "the
    talent" as well.  The channelor was a woman I met through work,
    who made it her business to meet me, get to know me and after enough
    time had gone by, to tell me that she was the only psychic who would
    "come forward to me" because she "had a message".  I admit at the
    time, I was a skeptic.  She used a crystal ball to channel the spirit,
    who was with me for nearly two hours.  I was so amazed by what he/she
    was saying, it never occured to me to ask anything about who it
    was. What did happen was that I was convinced
    for ever more.  The spirit told me things to verify that I would
    believe, very personal things from my childhood that I've never
    shared with anyone.  
    
    After the 'believing lessons' the advice came.  To make a long story
    short, I was told that this was the only psychic that would ever
    come forward, that from now on I must search.  The search would
    help me to develop and overcome problems which I was having at the
    time.  And that focus on 'higher' thoughts would help me not to
    'dwell' on current/past problems.  
    
    This first time I took notes, and have refered to them many times.
     Searching for my next contact was something I never considered,
    just thought was interesting.  About a year and a half later, I
    happened upon an ad for psychic readings done at the Psychic Learning
    Center in Salem.  I had no reason to take an interest in the ad,
    so I ignored it.  Over time, I kept finding it and re-reading it
    until I eventually called.  The woman did over-the-phone readings
    or in person (I chose phone) using Tarot cards.  She did an hour-long
    reading, which I found to be unbelievable because she told some
    of the same 'secrets' that the first woman knew about...that no
    one else still knew.  She also told me many things about my abilities,
    so what I am wondering (thanks all for reading on...and on) is:
    
    I am getting the same feeling about Ouija that I had about going
    back to the ad again and again.  I really don't have anyone who
    would seriously try it with me though, so does anyone have any advice?
    
    If you have the 'talent' is it better/worse to use the board?  Should
    I leave well enough alone?  Michael, I hoped you would be able to
    shed some light on my questions.  I am a believer, but very afraid
    of experiences going awry.
    
    

    RE:  .144
    
    I forgot to sign that last one...it's 
    
    Nancy

    I've been thinking about this some more (non-stop) and have a few
    more questions for those of you well-versed in the subject.
    
    One note mentioned a reference to 'once you've let a spirit 'in',
    it may be hard to get it 'out' of your life'...how do you suppose
    this could be possible?  It seems that the spirit could only speak
    to you through the board, and if you were disturbed by it, the solution
    would be not to use the board again.  Also, would using a different
    board make a difference?  Could a spirit 'haunt' you, in dreams,
    thoughts, or some other way that I am unaware of?
    
    Also, could someone please tell me a little about 'Wicca'?  I keep
    hearing the name only, but no reference to what the term means.
    Some type of witchcraft?
    
    Regards,
    Nancy
    

    
    Re: < Note 8.146 by AKOV13::BOWERS >
        
    >Also, could someone please tell me a little about 'Wicca'?  I keep
    >hearing the name only, but no reference to what the term means.
    >Some type of witchcraft?
    
    Yeah? What do you want to know? There's Wicca and Craft which are
    joined to form WiccaCraft which became Witchcraft. This is the American
    flavor of course. B^)
    
    Try reading _Drawing Down the Moon_ by Margo Adler or _Spiral_Dance_
    by Starhawk. You can probably find them in your public library though
    they are usually always checked out. B^) Most retail bookstores
    have them.

RE: Note 8.146  AKOV13::BOWERS     Nancy,

>    One note mentioned a reference to 'once you've let a spirit 'in',
>    it may be hard to get it 'out' of your life'...how do you suppose
>    this could be possible?  It seems that the spirit could only speak
>    to you through the board, and if you were disturbed by it, the solution
>    would be not to use the board again.  Also, would using a different
>    board make a difference?  Could a spirit 'haunt' you, in dreams,
>    thoughts, or some other way that I am unaware of?
    
	Having read many accounts of such things, it appears that
    spirits will follow people around, sometimes.    People who
    move into a haunted house may move to escape then found that 
    the haunt has followed them.   (as in the Amityville Horror story)
    I recently read about a man who was involved with a succubus,
    the legendary type of female demon who materializes to have sex with
    some man.    She began to dominate his life, wanting him every
    single night, so he moved from Europe to Canada to escape, but
    she was still with him when he got to Canada.
    
    	It appears that such creatures (if they do in fact exist
    as separate creatures, and are not just psychological projections,
    which would be *expected* to follow one around) may be a little
    like people, in that they follow what arouses their interest.
    Thus one danger of the Ouija is that a link is formed that flags
    the attention of those 'on the other side'.    Once they 'have your
    number' they may not be willing to forget.    It could be harder
    than keeping out harrassing phone calls, since you can change your
    phone number, but it may be really hard to block out something
    that accesses your mind directly.   How would you get a persistent
    suitor to let you alone?   How much harder would it be if the
    suitor was not visible to the naked eye, and could walk through
    walls?

    						Alan.

             DID YOU KNOW?
    
    OUIJA BOARDS ARE ILLEGAL IN THE U.K?
    THEY SUPPOSED TO BE PASSED ONLY WITHIN THE FAMILY?
    ANYONE HEARD OF SPIRIT CODES?
    ANYONE HEARD OF SPIRIT LEVELS? (i.e 1-6)
    ANYONE HEARD OF THE POWER OF THE WHITE LIGHT?
    HAS ANYONE SPOKE TO AN IMMEDIATE MEMBER OF FAMILY,DECEASED OF COURSE?
    DOES ANYONE THINK THEY HAVE CONVERSED WITH THE BIG "D"?
    
    TONY ABSOLOM, RDL, SPOOKSVILLE, U.K
    
    

    Re .149 (Tony):
    
    Please don't use all caps (SHOUTING); it's harder to read.
    
    >OUIJA BOARDS ARE ILLEGAL IN THE U.K?
    
    Really?  Do you happen to know why?
    
    >ANYONE HEARD OF SPIRIT LEVELS? (i.e 1-6)
    
    Yes.  Carpenters and bricklayers use them to determine when things
    are truly horizontal or vertical.  A fluid is put into a small curved
    tube, and it has a bubble in it; when the bubble is between two
    marks, the ends of the tube are level (usually the tube is mounted
    in a holder); advanced versions of this, with multiple tubes (usually
    3-4) can determine whether things are vertical as well as horizontal.
    
    >ANYONE HEARD OF THE POWER OF THE WHITE LIGHT?
    
    Depends upon whom you talk to.  A lot of people visualize "white
    light" as a spiritually cleansing agent, or as a form of protection.
    Opinions vary on what might constitute "the White Light," and it's
    not clear that there's a single thing that can be singled out as
    "the" White Light.
    
    Light, itself, is frequently thought of as "good" as opposed to
    darkness as "evil"; thus, Satan, for example, is called "the Prince
    of Darkness" to illustrate his evil nature.  A person who's come
    to knowledge is said to be "enlightened," and an erring person brought
    to his or her senses is said to have "seen the light."  However,
    there are ambiguities; for instance a (or the) chief devil is known
    as Lucifer, meaning "light-bearer."
    
    >DOES ANYONE THINK THEY HAVE CONVERSED WITH THE BIG "D"?
    
    By that, am I correct is assuming you're asking whether anyone thinks
    he or she has had a run-in with a devil?  Perhaps Satan?
    
    A question of this sort can be entered frivolously, seriously, or
    confrontationally.  I doubt that there is a person in this Conference
    who would welcome, or even seek out, a conversation with any sort
    of devil, much less the leader of the host of Infernus. 
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.                                       

    O.K ,
         Can anyone in the good ol' U.S of A tell me how i can purchase
    a board from America?
         There must be a company who makes them who has a mailing service.
    If anyone has any information ( telephone numbers, addresses etc.
    I would be very grateful,     
    
           
            TONY ABSOLOM                                                               
      
                                                                   
          
    

    
    RE .151
    
    	Well there is only A company that makes them... Parker Brothers.
    
    	I was interested to hear that the UK doesn't have them. There
    	is an economy store by me that brought a whole bunch of them
    	and is selling them for about 8 dollars each. I was thinking
    	of doing my holloween shopping early and bying a gross
    	to cover me for christmass and all the major holidays. ;-)
    
    	I will see if they have a mail order thing going. This may
    	sound stupid.... but is there any law agains sending one overseas?
    	I doubt it... but laws is screwing things some times.
                                                             
    Craig ;-)

    
    I have been at training the last couple of weeks,so,had some catching
    up to do.Nancy,I believe,that,being able to use the Ouija board,is
    an indication of a talent.It is preliminary to channeling.The energy
    required to operate the Ouija is less than what is required to channel.
    My wife and I have worked the board for about 3 years now.I have
    wrote of some of our experiences throughout this conference.I donot
    plan to try channeling,because,I see it as very risky.You dont really
    know who,or,what,you are dealing with.To "open" the door for unknown
    entities by inviting them in,is taking a big chance.
      Tony,I have had conversations with my first wife directly on the
    Ouija.I also have sent and received messages from my father,who,is
    on a higher plane,and,cannot communicate directly.I also have had
    conversations(not solicited)with an entity that claimed to be Satan.
    He wanted me to know that He was in charge,and,that I had no power
    over him.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    
    Cheers Craig,
    
     Could you,or,anyone else supply me with a number for PARKERS in
    the U.S. I would be eternally grateful!!
     This would be much appreciated, PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE.
    
    TONY AB. RDL 
                                                     

    One of the most incredibly mystical (and spooky) experiences
    I had in my life was with a group of friends and an Ouija board.
    
    We contacted a entity who called him/herself simply "Friend".  He/She
    said his/her function was to influence dreams.  I don't remember
    all the details, but I remember we all accused each other of moving
    the "pointer", and of course, we all denied it.  So we had all who
    were touching the pointer look away from the board and each other,
    and an observer wrote down the messages.  The spirit still spoke
    coherently; which we were having trouble doing ;-).
    
    Other times since I have witnessed visitations by darker spirits; full
    of lies and contradictions.
    
    Richard

    Richard,
        My wife and I have experimented by having our son take down
    the letters while we were both looking away from the board and each
    other.It didnt make any difference.I have been told that it is caused
    by vibrations in the hand,but,we hardly touch the pointer,and,at
    times,it moved from under my hand until the contact was broken.I
    believe it operates by energy not yet detectable by scientists,and,
    by using more than one person,increases the energy by combining
    each persons energy fields.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    From The National Directory of Addresses and Telephone Numbers, 1987
    edition from the DEC Hudson (Mass.) library:
    
    	Parker Brothers and Co. Inc.
    	5303 Navigation
    	Houston, Texas 77011-1025
    
    	(713)926-4461
    
    I'm sure that they *must* have a British subsidiary or associate --
    they are the largest manufacturer of board games in the world.  As well
    as Ouija they own Monopoly, Risk and Ping-Pong (every one else sells
    "Table Tennis").
    
    					Topher

RE: .156
    
    Michael, that test signifies nothing, though your open mindedness in
    testing competing hypotheses does you credit.  Subconscious
    "touch-typing" is way to easy for an experienced user of the board and
    peripheral vision could help a great deal with the way you did it.
    To be meaningful:
    
    	1) All operators would have to be completely blindfolded.
    
    	2) The board would have to be *randomly* reoriented after
    	   blindfolding and before the hands are placed on the planchette
    	   and again frequently throughout the session.
    
    	3) Any time a hand, wrist, arm, etc. or the planchette came in
    	   contact with the edge of the board it would have to be
    	   reoriented (*randomly*) again.  Alternately a special circular
    	   board could be used.
    
    	4) The person taking down the results should give absolutly no
    	   feedback as to what is going on.  Much better would be to use
    	   a video camera and simply record the session.
    
    The light touch is as expected (the Ouija board is carefully designed
    to only require a light touch) as is the moving away from your fingers.
    What would be surprising is significant movement after it has left
    contact with everyones fingers.
    
    The ball-bearing test can be definitive.  Place some ball bearings on
    the planchette and immobalize them with modeling clay (the clay should
    not come between the ball-bearing and the planchette nor cover the top
    of the ball-bearings).  Place a second surface (piece of plastic or
    stiff cardboard) on top of the ball-bearings and operate the board.
    
    If it does not "work" at this point the test is inconclusive since
    there is an adequate explanation within both theories: either the
    ball-bearings/extra-surface insulates the "psychic energy" or the
    operators are subconsciously blocking the procedure either because they
    believe that the "psychic energy" will be blocked or because of a
    subconscious fear of a definitive test.
    
    Now remove the clay so the ball bearings can roll freely.  The
    "subconscious movements" theory predicts one of two things will then
    occur when an attempt is made to operate the board:
    
    	1) Nothing noticable will happen since the feedback loop which
    	   directs the small movements into consistent macroscopic
    	   movements is broken, or
    
    	2) The planchette will stay in place while the extra surface
    	   moves around a bit and possibly slides off.
    
    The "unknown energy" theory predicts:
    
    	3) The planchette will slide out from beneath the ball-bearings.
    
    Note that many occultists believe that the board is moved by small
    movements of the hands which are directed through the subconscious
    by discorporeal entities -- essentially that the board is an easy
    and limited form of channeling.
    
    					Topher

    
    Topher,
    
      I guess,in the scientists point of view,the test would not be
    of any validity,which after reading your reply,I could see your
    points.However,I still hold to the theory of Energy Fields.I know
    there are many things we are not aware of,I believe this is one
    area we are in the dark.I think the energy is connected with the
    Aura,and,comes from our spirit body.Of course,it is only a theory.
    I dont think scientists will get proof,if the proof will not be
    given.I challenged my contact to use one of his other boards,and,give
    the person on the other end my phone number,a code word,and for
    that person to call me,with the code word,and my contacts name.He
    has not yet accomplished it,because I dont believe they are allowed
    to offer proof of it.I would think it would be pretty convincing.
    Thanks for the scientific process,an area I have limited knowledge.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Re .158 m(Topher):
    
        >	3) Any time a hand, wrist, arm, etc. or the planchette came in
    	>   contact with the edge of the board it would have to be
    	>   reoriented (*randomly*) again.  Alternately a special circular
    	>   board could be used.
         
    Alternatively, the board could be either painted in a large surface
    (such as the table) which is movable, or it could be under glass
    so the operators cannot feel an edge.
    
    >Note that many occultists believe that the board is moved by small
    >movements of the hands which are directed through the subconscious
    >by discorporeal entities -- essentially that the board is an easy
    >and limited form of channeling.
     
    This brings us full circle.  If we assume that the subconscious
    is responsible for moving the planchette, than it could be:
    
    a) channeled entities (ghosts, demons, whatever)
    b) a secondary personality
    c) a manifestation of a paranormal talent (e.g., clairvoyance) detected
       by the subconscious.           
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

RE: .160 (Steve K.)
    
    > Alternatively, the board could be either painted in a large surface
    > (such as the table) which is movable, or it could be under glass
    > so the operators cannot feel an edge.
    
    The glass is a good idea, if it does not interfere (via "insulation" or
    psychological mechanisms) with the boards working "in the clear"
    (without blindfold).  The table doesn't really help matters -- unless
    it is circular (in which case it is the "special circular board" with
    legs) -- since it would be too easy for the operators to learn
    something about the orientation by contact of the table edge with their
    bodies.  A table-sized circular board would eliminate the tendency of
    the planchette to fall off the edge in a blindfold test.
    
    						Topher

    
    Okay, how about a painted glass table that's round and *motorized* to
    turn constantly with a randomly varying speed within certain limits,
    or we could, instead of paint, also have the letters moving randomly,
    by using lasers.  Then house the entire set-up (with room inside for
    the participants and an observer) in a giant molybdenum steel ball that
    rotates at .005 Hz and randomly aligns itself with either the position
    of the sun or with Mrs. Hazel Farcus' rhubard (also selected randomly).
    Then we could house all of this in a warehouse where various other
    random events are taking place - I don't know why, but random events
    just seem like good things to have around test environments. :-)
    
    Guy
    

    RE:8.157
    
    Topher,
           The British side of Parker Bros. don't sell boards. Although
    they are not illegal in this country, they are ilegal to make.
           There are alot of funny laws in this country.For instance,
    the Prime Minister is allowed to drive sheep over London bridge!!!
    I wish someone would drive the Prime Minister over London bridge
    
    
        TONY ABSOLOM, ENGLAND.
    
    P.S  Frank Bruno nearly knocked out Iron Mike.                   
                                                                   
       
    

Hmm...has anyone tried using two boards to set up a communication
link? Pick a text or idea at random and try to "send" it to the
second board which is at some remote location.

Perry

    I havn't read all of the replies but most of them - thought I'd
    add my thoughts (this is all new to me..)
    
    When I was about 7 I can remember watching my mum, sister and friends
    sitting around a table talking to people through a glass.  I found
    it absolutely fascinating , and was drawn in some kind of way? 
    In later years I decided to ask my mum what had been going on -
    she explained it very briefly, but that it was not something that
    should be done, and that she regretted it very much.
    
    I decided when I was about 15 to have a go with some friends one
    evening very late, I was taking the whole situation very seriously,
    but my friends were not.  Something did happen though the glass
    began to move - it appeared to be very angry and the glass shattered
    into pieces.  My friends left and I was left to ponder.
    
    About 4 years after that incident I eventually persuaded my mum
    and sister to indulge me and we began.  We lit a candle and the
    atmosphere was very tense.  The first ?spirit? that announced itself
    claimed to be my Grandmother - and described a a lot of things about
    me (that I certainly hadn't told my mother - nor did I want her
    to know!!).  That spirit left suddenly - and it seemed to be very
    upset.  The second spirit to announce itself began to ask us to
    pass messages onto living members of its family i.e.  tell Karen
    if she doesn't get her act together I'll have to sort her out. 
    We never did find out who Karen was.  The third was quite dreadful,
    and actually threatened us with violence.  We all became very
    frightened (during the whole of the this time the candle was going
    crazy and eventually blew out).  My mother threatened myself and
    my sister not to let go of the glass, otherwise dreadful things
    would happen, we had to ask the spirit to leave the room.  We did,
    and eventually it did.  
    
    I later went to discuss these happenings with friend who was a psychic
    (who had previously told me I had the power???) and she warned me
    against dabbling with things so sensitive.  Reading some of the
    notes - I now know why.  I'm still fascinated though.
    
    And am enjoying DEJAVU enourmasly!!!!!!!
    
    Sarah

    HOORA & BALYHOO!!
    
    I have finally contacted Parker Brothers, Massachussetts. They were
    quite happy to give me all the information I needed.
       
    It will cost me $18.10 post & package, and $13.00 for the actual
    board. I found it curious that a company that, by law, cannot sell
    these items in this country, are willing to sell them by mail order.
    
    Hopefully I will be able to add more contributions to this conference
    now.
    
    By the way, do any of you moguls know if you can use a real board
    on your own?????
    !!!!!!! I NEED TO KNOW THIS!!!!!!!
    
    Cheers chaps,
                  TONY ABSOLOM, RDL, ENGLAND.
                                                       

RE: .166 (Tony Absolom)
    
    Well, last time I checked I wasn't a mogul (i.e., a rich and powerful
    person), but the answer to your question is -- maybe.
    
    Some people can use the OUIJA alone, most can't.  Some people who can't
    initially, find that they can after they've had group experience for
    awhile.
    
    Good luck with the board, and be carefull -- even skeptics believe that
    OUIJA boards can cause problems.
    
    					Topher

    RE: .167 (Topher)
    
    
                            Can you?
    
    
    
    T.A.

RE: .168 (T.A.)
    
    I've never tried.  I've only used the board a dozen or so times.  My
    knowledge is principally from less immediate sources: casual
    conversations and more "formal" interviews with users of all levels of
    experience, some observations of sessions and lots of reading on
    this and related subjects.
    
    You might want to experiment with the "pendulum" before you spend
    money on the "board".  Its clumsier and less spectacular, but most
    people can do it by themselves, and it appears to be less dangerous
    (perhaps because it provides such a "narrow", clumsy communication
    channel).  There are directions from several people elsewhere in this
    conference.
    
    					Topher

    RE: 21. "WINNING MEGABUCKS"
    
    Now don't get me wrong, (Steve,Topher!), I wouldn't attempt this
    as I've been told it is dangerous.
    
    Has anyone ever used the board to make money? If not why not.
    
    A friend of mine once asked a 'spirit' what was going to win a race.
    The horse duly won.
    The curious thing being, he hadn't seen what was running in the
    race, and so there for couldn't have urged the board to tell him
    this particular horse's name.
    Fevered with excitement he asked again later on, the "spirit" 
    answered. Only this time it lost.
    Obviously you cannot trust everything a "spirit" says, but do have
    knowledge of such future occurences? If so, how?
    
    Answers in plain,(and I mean plain), English please.
    
     TONY ABSOLOM ,RDL,ENGLAND.
                                     

    
    
    
    
    
         WAS IT SOMETHING I SAID?

    
    I dont think it was something you said.. your last question was
    something like...
    
    	"Do spirits have knowledge of future events and if so...how?"
    
    How can anyone even start to list the possible answers? all of
    which could.. and most likely are.... wrong.
    
    Craig 

    Once when myself and a few 'friends' were using the board they asked
    questions which were weird.
    We asked if we were going to heaven or hell. The board informed
    us that three of us were going to heaven, and three to hell. We
    then asked,(those of us who were going to hell!), whether it was
    something we had already done, the answer, no. Now, I didn't want
    to know what I was going to do, but my friends did. The first one
    asked why he was going down, the board spelt out, H.I.T.A.N.D.R.U.N
    This is when 
    
                                                                   
                                                                  
     
                                                                                                                                
      

    
    RE: 173
    
    < This is when...>
    
    This is when I decided these were not good questions.
    Now this is the weird bit, the headlines in the next days paper
    (Daily Mirror, 5/7/88,) were, HIT AND RUN KILLINGS.
    
    Now thats weird.
    
    Tony Ab.

    
    re: 173 & 174
    
    	Did your friend who asked why he was going to hell have a good
    alibi at the time of the hit-and-runs?
    
    	Or do you suspect him.....?
    
    (I agree those were not good questions!) 
    
    /Greg Aharonian

                                                         
    Re.170-1 (Absolom)
    
    Tony,
    
    >Was it something I said?
    
    Yes indeed.  You asked for...
    
    >Answers in plain, (and I mean plain), English please.
    
    Nobody felt up to the task that particular day!  (;^)
    
    Cindy

    Tony Absolom,this is your future speaking.......:->
    
    Alex Rex will win the 2.30 at Newbury on the 6th July,Christine
    Marsh is also a good each-way bet................
    
    You will not go to hell,rather you will be banished to an eternity
    in death park..........
    
    your jp&r will be twarted by the introduction of giles newth  as
    cmo controller........
    
    PHil........

    WHen I was a teenager my best friend and I used the board everyday
    for about 6 months.  We asked all the typical questions (99% of
    the answers came through).  Both my friend and myself came from
    very religious upbring.  One day we asked it (I'm starting to get
    the creeps) when the answers came from and the board responded "satan
    the devil."  Well we were getting pretty spooked by this itme but
    continued to ask it questions relating to biblical facts.  This
    is not lie - the pointer started moving rapidly all by itself. 
    We finally flipped out when we asked it if it believed in Jesus
    the pointed spelled out "F U" all by itself and the pointer was
    then into the ceiling and the board was flung across the room. 
    We never ever touched another board again.  The feeling both of
    us had was sheer terror.  I will never in my life ever go near one
    again.  Just needed to share this.
    

    Just read my reponse and didn't realize all the bad feelings that
    were coming thought again.  However looking at all the typos and
    spelling errors I realized it is still difficult to even address
    that experience.
    DOC

    Re.178/9 (OConnor)
    
    Thanks for entering that.
    
    It's never a good idea to play around with high voltage when you 
    have no idea what it's all about.  If you choose to though, then 
    it's wise to be properly educated and protected beforehand.
    
    Cindy

RE: .178 (D_OCONNOR)
    
    Thank you for sharing that, it was obviously difficult for you, and
    I appreciate it (I suspect rather strongly that others in this
    conference do to).  I have some questions, but it is perfectly OK
    if you do not wish to answer, or wish to answer privately via MAIL.
    
    1) I assume that the "religious upbringing" for both your friend and
    you was Christian.  Correct?
    
    2) What part of the world did you grow up in?
    
    3) What do you mean when yousay that the pointer moved "all by itself?"
    Do you means your hands were not in contact with it when this occured?
    Or do you mean that it felt exceptionally independent of your fingers,
    though they were still in full contact?  Or were you simply emphasizing
    that at that time, as at other times, you were not moving it?
    
    4) When you said that the pointer spelled out "F U" did you mean
    literally that it spelled out those two letters, or were you
    abbreviating so as not to offend (I would not by any means disapprove of
    this or consider it "prudish", concern for the feelings of others is
    *not* prudishness)?
    
    5) What was your feelings about its truthfulness when it identified
    itself as the devil?  How about later?  How about now?  Why?
    
    6) Was the board on a table, the floor, your knees or where?  How were
    you sitting?
    
    7) Did the pointer go straight up or in an arc?  If the latter how did
    the direction compare to the way you and your friend were sitting?
    Which direction did the board go, relative to you and your friend and
    relative to your friend?  Was it flung across the room high or low?
    
    Thats all for now at least.
    
    Let me emphasize once again that you are under no obligation -- even
    "social" -- to answer these questions.  I do not in any way wish to
    pressure you to do something you do not wish to do.  My reasons for
    asking are "curiosity" but *not* idle curiosity.  I wish to understand.
    
    Thanks for your attention, and thanks once again for sharing what you
    have with us.
    
    					Topher

    Phil you liar,
    
    Alex fell at the first, Chris took the wrong the course.
    
    Mind you, I think Giles is now Master of the Universe.
    
    **** MESSAGE ****
    
    When I get a second I have some good stuff to add to this file,
    anyone heard of Lucifer?

    Tony,
    
    Chris didnt take the wrong course,she got excited when alex went
    down...........                                                 
    
    Lucifer has a note put in much further down in this file,if I remember
    correct,hes the bringer of light,doesnt make much sence to me,but
    then again..
    
    Did you see the making of the Evil dead last night? That film may
    be funny but what effects!! I like the bit where they trap the 'ol
    beastie in the celler,trap its head and stamp on it..its eye pops
    out and hurtles throught the air, straight down a screeming girls
    gob!!!  Sikkkooo!!
    
    Phil

    
    re; last two
    
    	You flunk the rationality test. 
    
    	/prc

    While doing the board a couple of weeks ago, I was speaking to a
    `spirit' named George. When carried on for around about twenty minutes
    until without any reason,(i.e he was spelling nothin nasty), my
    friend asked if his name was really George, "No", "What is your
    real name," "Lucifer". Well apparently Lucifer isn't the nicest
    bloke around. CAN SOMEONE TELL IN PLAIN ENGLISH WHO HE IS.Is he
    something to do with the Devil?
    Also my friend has acquired this trick when we get this spirit 
    Zelum, of asking questions without saying a word. We checked he
    wasn't lying with the usual family names,birthdays etc. It was all
    correct.CAN ANYONE ELSE DO THIS?

RE: .185
    
    Yes Lucifer is the devil.  According to tradition it is the name he had
    in heaven before his revolt and consequent fall from grace.  I would
    not believe him, however, in his claims of being Lucifer.  The devil
    is supposedly the 2nd most powerfull being in the universe -- why would
    he bother to have a personal conversation with you?  Lucifer is lies
    incarnate (if he is anything at all).  If he were Lucifer then nothing
    he would say could be believed at all -- including his claim that he
    is Lucifer.  We may safely conclude that George is a liar, one way or
    another, and nothing he says can be trusted.
    
    Whatever the nature of the personalities who communicate through Ouija
    board, it is *very* clear that many or even most of them enjoy shocking
    or even scaring the operators sometimes.
    
    If your friend was anywhere in the room, much less operating the board,
    then you may find it worthwhile to know that being able to come up with
    such personal information is entirely explainable in "normal" terms.
    It is to be *expected* that the personality would know such things. 
    That does not mean, of course that those "normal" explanations are
    correct in this case.  Much more interesting is if the personality
    knows things that no one in the room knows or could ever possibly
    have known (since the subconscious remembers many seemingly trivial
    things that we have consciously forgotten) or guessed (since the
    subconsious is extraordinarily good at deducing and guessing things
    that we consciously find surprising).
    
    					Topher

    Re: 8.186, Topher,
             
    >     Yes Lucifer is the devil.  According to tradition it is the name
    > he had in heaven before his revolt and consequent fall from grace.  
     
         Repsectfully I disagree. The noun Lucifer was mistranslated in
     the O.T. It is "son of the morning" and astrolonomically is Venus. My
     nearest guess is that Venus was seen as a counterfiet Sun.
     Consequently confusion exists when "astrological" knowledge of
     perhaps the Babylonians, their captors, is mixed in with Hebrew myth
     cycles. Sorta' a mixture of fishes and worms. 
         
         Such a mixture of myth systems is expected when one culture is a
     captive of another.  Previously the Egyptians were the Hebrews
     captors and the same happened with the Opposer of Job being
     transformed into Set/Set'hen/Satan. 
         
         The Devil is a relatively new occurance. Somewhere about 300 to
     400 C.E. the church tried to wipe out Pan/Cernnunos worship. Pan,
     along with Dionysus (from 1800 BCE or so and very strongly worshiped),
     is from Arcadia and was typically represented with horns and goats
     leggings. Pan/Cernnunos was turned into the Christian Devil to repel
     the common folk away from the Nature based religions. A henious crime
     indeed.
             
    >     I would not believe him, however, in his claims of being Lucifer.  
     
         In my experience a communication or vision based upon mixed or
     confused myth cycles is just that, confused. There seems to be a
     reason though...    
             
    >     Whatever the nature of the personalities who communicate through
    > Ouija board, it is *very* clear that many or even most of them enjoy
    > shocking or even scaring the operators sometimes.
   
         My personal experience with entites such as these is they get
     off scaring incarnates. My guess is they feed upon emotional
     energies. It's sorta' a form of speed for them. Maybe a form of
     feeding.

RE: .186
    
    Somewhere you'll find that I recently wrote something about the origin
    of the name Lucifer.
    
    I was not aware that it appears in any translation of the OT (although
    I am no biblical scholar).  The devil as such does not appear anywhere
    in the OT (the Serpent of Eden was traditionally interpretted as a
    Serpent; Satan, literally Opponent, in the story of Job was a term which
    was part of the ancient Hebrew system of justice and is best translated
    into modern terms as Prosecuting Attorney).  It is the Latin name,
    not Babylonian and was no longer used in astrology by the time of the
    Roman Empire (it refered only to the Morning Star, and not to the
    Evening star).
    
    My strong impression is that the association of Lucifer with Satan did
    not come about until roughly the time of Dante.
    
    However by the beginning of the C.E. the concept of the Devil existed
    as part of the common belief system of many Jews.  This can be found
    from reading various Appocrapha.  Its source is probably three-fold:
    Iranian (it shares the concept with Mithraism), Helinistic (the concept
    of the Dialectic) and Gnostism (the concept of the Alien God and the
    evil rulers of the Universe).  I am not sure at what point it became
    part of official Christian doctrine but it almost certainly existed
    at least unofficially from the very beginning.  (Correct me if I am
    wrong but doesn't Satan -- now clearly literally God's opponent rather
    than companion -- appear in the NT to tempt Christ).
    
    The Pan association is one very good contender for the source of the
    traditional *image* of the Devil, but his roots are much deeper.
    
    All myths come from mixings and borrowings and learnings from "foreign"
    sources.
    
    In any case all this is irrelevant.  A name is a name, and if there is
    a Devil, then his name is unlikely to be directly renderable or
    comprehensible on an English based Ouija board.  The personality chose
    to give a name for the Devil which is in common use, and which is
    supposed to be, unlike either Satan or the Devil, a *name* rather than
    a title.
    
    					Topher

    re:               <<< Note 8.188 by CADSYS::COOPER "Topher Cooper" >>>
    
   > Somewhere you'll find that I recently wrote something about the origin
   > of the name Lucifer.
   
    Thanx, I'll look for it.
      
   > The devil as such does not appear anywhere
   > in the OT (the Serpent of Eden was traditionally interpretted as a
   > Serpent; Satan, literally Opponent, in the story of Job was a term which
   > was part of the ancient Hebrew system of justice and is best translated
   > into modern terms as Prosecuting Attorney).
    
    It seems to me there is a differencce between "devil" as demons and
    "Devil" as teh Evil One. The Devil is so recent it wouldn't appear in
    the O.T.
    
    
   > It is the Latin name,
   > not Babylonian and was no longer used in astrology by the time of the
   > Roman Empire (it refered only to the Morning Star, and not to the
   > Evening star).
    
    I think it was something like "Hespathos". And the Latin name probably
    would predominate in the Latin Vulgate.
                                           
   > My strong impression is that the association of Lucifer with Satan did
   > not come about until roughly the time of Dante.
    
   > However by the beginning of the C.E. the concept of the Devil existed
   > as part of the common belief system of many Jews.  This can be found
   > from reading various Appocrapha.  Its source is probably three-fold:
   > Iranian (it shares the concept with Mithraism), Helinistic (the concept
   > of the Dialectic) and Gnostism (the concept of the Alien God and the
   > evil rulers of the Universe).  
    
    Ok, is that "Devil" or "devil"? And what is the relationship between
    the Asian Indian "deva" and "devil"?
    
    Rulers of the Universe?? The Evil Demiurge?!! Run away! Run away! B^)
                                               
   > I am not sure at what point it became part of official Christian
   > doctrine but it almost certainly existed at least unofficially from the
   > very beginning.  (Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Satan -- now
   > clearly literally God's opponent rather than companion -- appear in the
   > NT to tempt Christ).
   
    True the Devil appears to Christ. But was that in the original or added
    later? And what is meant by the Aramaic word? I don't know now. It get
    very confusing when archaic languages are translated.
                                                         
   > The Pan association is one very good contender for the source of the
   > traditional *image* of the Devil, but his roots are much deeper.
    
    A theory of mine is that since Dionysus and Pan came from the same
    place that they were, perhaps intentionally, confused together. The
    Dionysusian rites were very violent, probably indicating a rebellion of
    women (Maenads ?) against the strongly patriarchial sociatial norms.
                                                                        
   > All myths come from mixings and borrowings and learnings from "foreign"
   > sources.
    
    I don't know. There seems to be a kernal of a tribal myth cycle mixed
    with more advanced myths of more advanced cultures as they were
    contacted. Siffening out the original myth cycles is enlightening. 
    
   > In any case all this is irrelevant.  A name is a name, and if there is
   > a Devil, then his name is unlikely to be directly renderable or
   > comprehensible on an English based Ouija board.  The personality chose
   > to give a name for the Devil which is in common use, and which is
   > supposed to be, unlike either Satan or the Devil, a *name* rather than
   > a title.
    
    A truer statement has not be said in a while. B^)
    
    

    re:                      <<< Note 8.185 by SUBURB::ABSOLOMT >>>
    
   > While doing the board a couple of weeks ago, I was speaking to a
   > `spirit' named George. When carried on for around about twenty minutes
   > until without any reason,(i.e he was spelling nothin nasty), my friend
   > asked if his name was really George, "No", "What is your real name,"
   > "Lucifer". Well apparently Lucifer isn't the nicest bloke around. CAN
   > SOMEONE TELL IN PLAIN ENGLISH WHO HE IS.Is he something to do with the
   > Devil?
    
    Lucifer was a rather minor Roman deity. You might start with that in
    the Library. Perhaps a reference on local Roman deities would provide
    the starting point.
                       
   > Also my friend has acquired this trick when we get this spirit 
   > Zelum, of asking questions without saying a word. We checked he
   > wasn't lying with the usual family names,birthdays etc. It was all
   > correct.CAN ANYONE ELSE DO THIS?
    
    I had an interesting run in with one of these. My guess is that the
    entity is an extension of yours or his being. It knows what you or he
    know. After realizing that it is another part of your being it usually
    goes away, knowing the gig is up.
    
    The real Lucifer usually shows up, uh, expresses itself, as flashes of
    bright light. Generally no words are offered. Your experience
    apparently is a Trickster.

    Re .187 (Mikie?):
    
     >>     Yes Lucifer is the devil.  According to tradition it is the name
     >> he had in heaven before his revolt and consequent fall from grace.  
     
     >    Repsectfully I disagree. The noun Lucifer was mistranslated in
     >the O.T. It is "son of the morning" and astrolonomically is Venus.
      
    The passage you have in mind, I suspect, is Isiah 14:12-14 --
    
    "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
    how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    "For thou hast said inb thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,
    I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon
    the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north:
    "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds: I will be like the
    most High."
    
    Now here, clearly, the writer is _not_ talking about a devil (or _the_ 
    Devil); rather he is writing of one who would emulate one.  This
    is paralleled by the Satan story (Rev 12:7-9) --
    
    "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against
    the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.
    "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent called the
    Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out
    into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
    
    >    Such a mixture of myth systems is expected when one culture is a
    >captive of another.  Previously the Egyptians were the Hebrews
    >captors and the same happened with the Opposer of Job being
    >transformed into Set/Set'hen/Satan. 
     
    The Set to Satan connection is hardly proven, or even demonstrated.
    The so-called "Set'hen" explanation is discussed in some detail
    in the RELIGION conference under "Temple of Set" discussion, and
    seems scholastically dubious.
    
    re Venus:]
    
    >I think it was something like "Hespathos".
    
    I believe that in early times, "the Morning Star" and "the evening
    star" were thought to be different.  The Morning Star was "Phosphoros"
    and the Evening Star "Hesphoros."  "Phosphoros" eventually was changed
    to "phosphorus" when referring to a chemical, but that's another
    matter.  Later, the Morning and Evening Stars were identified as
    a singler planet, Venus.   
  
    Under any circumstances, whatever the entity who's involved is _really_
    is, ther key point is that it might not be smart to take its messages
    without question.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

�    Under any circumstances, whatever the entity who's involved is _really_
�    is, ther key point is that it might not be smart to take its messages
�    without question.
 
    I suggest that it is smart NEVER to take ANY messages without
    question.   
    
    /bruce

    Can I just say that you boys know some really heavy stuff, is this
    a long-term hobby or what?

    re: <<< Note 8.193 by SUBURB::ABSOLOMT >>>
        
    >Can I just say that you boys know some really heavy stuff, is this
    >a long-term hobby or what?

    Let's just say it's a way of life. B^)
    

< Note 8.191 by LESCOM::KALLIS "To thine own self be candid." >
>    The passage you have in mind, I suspect, is Isiah 14:12-14 --
>    
>    "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
>    how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
>    "For thou hast said inb thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,
>    I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon
>    the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north:
>    "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds: I will be like the
>    most High."


This sounds to me like a description of a very bright comet.

Perry

         
    Re.193 (Absolomt)
    
    They're just bliss followers.
    
    (;^)  Especially Mikie.
    
    Cindy

    I think I'll have to agree with Tony,Its a great subject
    to read on,but,and this is not a critisism S.K.jr, when you
    are trying to describe a topic,could you at least keep the reply's
    abit more understandable,if just for a while,huh? 
    
    tankxs in advance
    
    Phil.

    Re .197 (phil):
    
    > ........ but, and this is not a critisism S.K.jr, when you
    >are trying to describe a topic,could you at least keep the reply's
    >abit more understandable ....
     
    It's worthy of a criticism, and one for which I must offer an apology.
    I was trying to throw half a dozen points together in my reply while
    simultaneously being involved with a telephone conversation; I hope
    I was less obscure on the phone.
    
    My basic points were that 1) Lucifer was indeed mentioned in the
    Old Testament, and that the reference was keyed to the idea of some
    person or entity that, from the text, appeared to be trying to emulate
    the chief rebel of the Heavenly Host, as described in the New
    Testament; and 2) that "Lucifer" as an astronomical object may have
    been synonymous with the planet Venus, but that the usual names
    for the planet were "phosphoros" [which I rather incoherently pointed
    out was a name later modified slightly and tagged to one of the
    chemical elements] and "hesphoros," depending whether it were the
    evening or morning star at the time.
    
    I'll try to be less rushed in the future.  Sorry.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Phil,
    
    You ought to get one of these things for your party, it could be
    very interesting.
    
    One thing I don't understand, is if you haven't got a ouji board,
    how do you make one out of paper, as is suggested in earlier notes,
    I'm very interested in this kind of thing and have never dabbled.
    
    If truth be known, I'd be scared witless.
    
    Regards
    
    Chrissie
    
    

    
    Heck, if anyone wants a board, I'll give mine away. Don't have the
    pointer though.
    
    /prc

    
    Whats a pointer thou, and what do both the board and pointer look
    like, sorry if I appear to be dumb, but I've never seen one of these
    things before.
    
    Cheers
    
    

    re .201:
    
    The "pointer" is generally called a "planchette," though a planchette
    with a pen attached can be used by itself in obtaining messages.
    The usual planchette for Ouija is an arrow-shaped (or triangular)
    object, usually with legs or rollers to enable it to traverse the
    board easily.  Some planchettes have holes in their centers for
    letters to show through.
    
    With some larger boards, a small glass is occasionally used as a
    planchette substitute.  Actually, any object that isolates a single
    letter (or other indicator) from the rest can be used.

    Ther board itself has a row of letters and numbers in an arc across
    its surface and a few short-response choices like "yes" and "no."
        
    Steve Kallis, Jr.                                                

    
    You could make one out of poster board,using the shiny side as the
    surface.Make the letters in an arc from the left side starting at
    letter A thru M in one and,under those,the letters N thru Z.Put the
    word YES in the upper Left corner.The Word NO in the upper right
    corner.Put the numerals 0 thru 9 in a straight line under the
    letters.The planchette can be a piece of plastic in the shape of a
    triangle with a hole in the middle.Glue some small felt feet on each
    point of the plastic piece.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    
    In my naive years, my friends and I made and used a piece of paper
    with the alphabet, "YES", "NO" and 0-10 written on with pen.  For
    a pointer, we just used a quarter.  Though it was small, it worked.
    When asked what it thought of Anton LaVey (sp?) it spelled 
    
    "A 1"   ! ! !
    
    /Greg Aharonian

    
    Steve
    
    Thanks for explaining, somehow, I don't think I will be dabbling,
    curiosity got the better of me, and prompted me to ask.
                         
    
    Cheers
    
    Chrissie

    
    AW,Chrissie,
    
    Wot,no dabbling on party night *-:-)))))))))
    
    Phil-who-loves-a-dabble-

    I'm not sure if I'm replying quite right, since this is only the
    second time I've written in notes.  But I'll try.
    
    I have always been very afraid of the weejee, since I "feel" danger
    or something very close to it when ever I am near one.  I am rather
    curious though.  I have been told that I am one who should never
    try this particular method of communication since I am very "sensative"
    by nature.
    
    Can the Planchette be moved without touching it or the board?  Some
    how I feel it could be moved by the energy of the users, but I am
    not sure.
    
    Is it possible for a "spirit" or whatever to inhabit a person from
    this experience?  I'm sorry the word has escaped me for this term.
    
    I am very glad that you give the warnings that you have in this
    conference, even though I have not played around with this particular
    method of communication I believe in its danger.  I have tried seance
    (sp).
    
    Thanks for a great reading list and the history.  I'd be interested
    in learning more.
    
    Beth
    

    Kal my man,
    
        None of my friends want to use the board when I do,so I want
    to know if there is more danger involved doing it alone. 
        I remember the girl in `Witchboard' went a bit squey after she
    had used it alone.
        
    
    Tony Ab

My only experience of a Oiuja board was a round pub table with letters written
in chalk around the edge. There was a girl there, who was well into 
spiritualism, who explained that the idea was to trap a spirit in a down-turned
glass. If you got the devil you should immediately turn the glass up, otherwise
if the glass flew of the table and smashed every one at the table would die
horribly in the near future. 

Any one heard of this?

Another lad there said he'd previously and windows had blown open, pictures 
fell of the wall and they got the general impression that some one out there
didn't like them.

Neither of these two would take part, but undaunted, myself and three other 
sceptics tried, and it worked far to well for my liking.

I am now convinced that playing with Ouija boards can be dangerous for your
health.


Alan. 

                      < POOPER SCOOPER > 
    
    Well, I finally broke down and got a Oiuja board.I tried it out last
    night,and the results were amazing!I contacted a spirit named
    euirhtg,and it told me, among other things,that both John and Bobby
    Kennedy would be shot,men would walk on the moon before 1970, and
    that Joan Collins would die from complications from a botched face-
    lift.With that,the board lifted straight off the table,and flung 
    itself into the trashcan,where it remains to this very day!
                                    - Convinced

    O.K. once you've got your board and pointer is there anything else
    you need such as a candle. I heard that you should have the 4 elements
    situated around the table (candle, soil, water, air). The lights
    should be out yes???
    
    Also how do you make actual contact...I mean after watching so many
    movies saying 'IS ANYBODY THEEERRRREEEE????' would seem really silly!
    
    Bruce, Leeds

    
    
    You donot need anything else,just the board and the pointer.You donot
    need the lights out,it will work fine in broad daylight.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Last time a group of us use the Ouija, we had on hand a candle,
    an open Bible and a bell.
    
    I was advised that the bell, book and candle were old and powerful
    symbols for driving away evil spirits.
    
    Well, it didn't hurt!;-)
    
    Richard

    Hi, I'm new to this conference and the Ouija subject attracted my
    attention.  I read all the notes on it, and despite the warnings
    received, my curiosity got the best of me.
    
    I had a long conversation with a spirit that was supposedly my gaurdian
    angle.  He told me he was there to protect me and he could do me
    no harm.  Well, part way through the conversation, we broke contact
    and this aweful spirit came on and told me that my sister, who is
    pregnant right now, is going to have a baby boy.  Then he said that
    the baby was going to come out fine, and the mother wasn't.  I asked
    it if my sister would live and it spelled out "No".  Needless to
    say, I just wanted to take that board and find the nearest trashcan.
    
    Well, I decided that I would not be able to live with myself thinking
    that, so I tried again and got in contact with the spirit that was
    supposedly my guardian angle.  He told me that the other one was
    evil and was just trying to scare me.  I was relieved, in a way,
    but it still frightens me.
    
    We continued the conversation and at the end he told me that the
    Ouija was a cult, and that he was evil and would hurt me if I continued
    using it.  He told me I should throw the thing away.  I did just
    that.  We (the other person I was doing this with was my boyfriend-I
    wasn't alone) hacked it up then burnt it.  I never want to touch
    another one again.
    
    I admit, I was skeptical at first, but after all that I saw and
    heard today, I don't doubt a single thing anyone says about it.
    The story I told was shortened, but I told most of it.  I feel better
    telling people about it.  Especially people that understand, and
    won't think I'm nuts.
    
    I just want to know about my sister.  I don't know what to believe,
    and even though I don't want to believe what that other spirit said,
    and my "guardian angle" said it wasn't true and not to worry, I
    still wonder what to believe.
    
    Any comments?

RE: .215
    
    Whatever the mechanism of the ouija:
    
    The personalities which manifest through it frequently seem to have as
    their goal to scare the bej**s out of the operators.  They say whatever
    is apropos which will do that most effectively.  Although there are
    exceptions, the ouija rarely proves to be a reliable way of learning
    things about this plane which we don't already know.
    
    I wouldn't worry about it, I really woudn't.  You've been talking to
    some thug who gets pleasure from scaring you -- that is all.
    
    					Topher

    
    I would not believe what you were told. These entities must have sensed
    your fear,and,had their fun with you. They will do that. I know from
    experience.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Thanks.  I hope you're right.  They did a pretty good job at it
    though.  Have you (or anyone) found the entities reliable in predicting
    the future?  Just curious.

     As far as predictions,I have not found them to be reliable,in fact,
    my contact stated that he could not predict future events.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    My stars!!  From reading some of the notes in this file, you'd think
    the Ouiga Board was a channel for all sorts of malevolent entities
    to get their chance to mess up the minds of earth-bound creatures.
    
    I have never had any reaction from the board at all. Maybe,
    the "pond scum" that can inhabit the other side are intimidated
    by my close ties to my sister-in-law who is a Dominican nun.
    
    Actually, I can just picture one of my deceased grandmothers arm-
    wrestling with anyone who tries to mess up my mind with false and
    predatory garbage.
    
    
    Mary who has become a bit cynical about it all!!!
    

    
    
    .218
    
    I have had an 'entity' (personality) accurately predict a
    future event.
    
    15 years ago the personality with whom we corresponded mentioned
    that I would have 1 child.  At another time he told my husband
    he would have 3 children.  I remember being mildly confused, but
    didn't think much of it.
    
    I do indeed have one child.  My husband and I are now divorced
    (a situation that was inconceivable to me 15 years ago). In ad-
    dition to his child, he is also the stepfather of 2 more children.
    
    Future events cannot be predicted.  Possible futures can be dis-
    cussed, but nothing is set until the individual actually sets in
    motion the events necessary to cause the predicted future to be-
    come reality.
    
    Deborah
    

    
    Kathy,
    
      I am responding to you here instead of the new note. I'm sure the
    moderators will help you move your note. I am sorry to hear about your
    sisters situation. I would be very concerned too. In her state of
    mind,I would be sure to keep close contact with her,and,try to be with
    her as much as possible. I would be very concerned about the
    children,as well. Its hard telling what she might do. I would suggest
    she continue to get medical treatment. In addition to that,there is a
    number of things you could help her do concerning the Ouija board. Look
    thru these notes for suggestions. I would get rid of the board first.
    Another thing that could be done is a cleansing of the place where she
    lives. By meditation,visualize a strong,powerful light surrounding the
    place where she lives. Have the light penetrating thru,and,surrounding
    your sister,and,her children. Have her do this also,as often as
    needed. She should visualize this light as a protector,that,she carries
    it with her,and,can draw from it at any time. I wish you the
    best,and,hope things work out.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    In light of recent tragedies involving Ouija boards, I have compiled a 
    list of safety measures to insure against accidental Ouijiisms.
     1.NEVER clean a loaded Ouija board!!!This cannot be over stated.When
    cleaning,always point planchette AWAY from others.
     2.When transporting a board, keep planchette pointed at the ground.
     3.Never store board and planchette in the same place- always keep
    planchette in a separate, locked case, out of children's reach.
     4.Do NOT mix Ouija board with other board games.Mixing Ouija with
    Monopoly has caused wild stock market fluctuations.An Ouija and Clue
    combination caused Mrs.Lurleen Fuddpucker of Bedpan,Ohio to be
    budgeoned to death in the library by Colonel Mustard.
     5.And last but not least, avoid semi-automatic Ouija boards, as their
    erratic bursts of electroplasmic energy have caused major appliences
    to malfunction.
    
    I hope this list prevents any more Ouija misfires.
                                Sincerely,Dr.I.C. Beyond

    FLASH!!!!!NEWS UPDATE!!!!!!
    My Ouija board is still in the trash, and in the SAME PLACE I LEFT
    IT!!! Amazing coincidence, or Satan? YOU DECIDE!
                                               Dave's Clone

    Re.224 (Clone) on trash
    
    Nah - just a lazy housekeeper.  I leave my trash in the same place for
    WEEKS.
    
    ...except sometimes it's been known to take on a whole new life of its 
    own and walk away by itself...sometimes in the direction of the
    dumpster...
    
    Hm...y'know, it might be Satan after all.  I'll remember to tip him
    well when the holidays roll around.  *<(8*)
    
    Cindy

    re.225:
     Cindy,
    I think it's satan after all.My trash stinks like hell!
                                                        - Me

    
    Hello to all DEJAVU noters.
    
    I don't know where to begin. I've read all of the notes in this
    conference. It has been very interesting.  I want to say that I
    beleive in the ouijai (sp.) board.  It took me a couple of days
    to get through all of the notes.  In those days all I could think
    about was going out and buying one of these boards.  As I progressed
    in the notes, I began to think should I buy one or not?  I have
    thought about who I would use it with and it would probably be my
    fiance (sp.) anyways I don't know if she would want to do this.
    Or even want to try and uderstand why I would want to do something
    like this.  
    
         I've read all the warnings about the ouijai board.  I know
    that you should imagine the white light and say a prayer before
    using the board.  I want to have a good experience.  I think if
    we had a bad experience with the board, it would scare my fiance
    very much.  
    
    QUESTION:
    
         How would you end your encounter with the spirit after you
    have had enough excitement for the evening?
    
    Does anybody have anything they would like to tell me? Please.
    
                                    
                                              Shawn
    
    
     

    Fold up the board,put it back in the box,put the box away!
    
    
    
    
    
              Learned from a Buddist Monk in Tibet
    
                            JT

    Re: .227

    Hi Shawn, in case that board is still open, just
    a few thoughts from me. Ask yourself carefully why
    you want to do this. If it's because of an urge to
    'inner growth' then have you tried some of the many other
    options available? (Many detailed in this conference).

    Don't do this for excitement. And don't involve your fianc�e
    if she isn't keen on the idea.

    Finally, if you still want to go ahead then try to do
    it with someone who has experience of this.

    John.

    Well, to close out a ouija session, we used to do the following.
    
    Dismiss the summoned spirit with whom we were conversing
    
    Thank the "spirit of the board" (we had a "resident" spirit who
    would get other spirits' attention so we could converse with them)
    for his efforts
    
    Slide the planchette ALL the way off the board (no particular
    direction) and move it back and forth across the edge of the board
    several times (we were under the impression that a spirit could
    be within/touching the planchette ON the board, but not when it
    was OFF the board, so we'd kind of "wipe the spirit" off the
    planchette, if that makes any sense).
    
    Put the board away (I assume some people wrap the board/box in a
    special scarf or put it in a special place - as one might do with
    tarot cards - but we didn't)...
    
    -Jody
    

    
    	That's interesting, Jody, I used to wipe off the planchette too
    	but it was more to cleanse the energy of the board of MY energy
    	rather than that of the spiritual entity's.  I never had really
    	thought about it the meaning before.
    
    	Carla
    

    Re.229
    John,
    
    Sorry that I took so long to reply, but we had P.I. last week.
    This is the first time I've had a chance to write back.
    Well, I thought about what you said, and I don't think I'm going
    to try it yet.  For one, Becki was not to keen on the idea.
    For two, what you said about doing for excitement hit home with
    me.  Don't get me wrong I believe that there are spirits out there
    that can be reached.  But I don't think I'm ready for them yet.
    I figure that if I meet someone who has more experience with this
    sort of thing and they wan't to give it a whirl I'll go for it.
    
    Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it.
    
    I would love to here more about anybodys experiences with the ouija
    board.  I find them very interesting.
                                                   
                                                  Shawn
    
    
     
        
    
                                                             

    GEESH maybe some of your warnings should be on the back of the box
    that the board and planchette come together in? 
      interesting thought 
           weird how the board is manufactured in that little infamous
            town of SALEM MASS. wonder if theres a connection?
                        Bill-

    
    
    Come on theres got to be somebody out there with a story to tell.
    
                                                shawn

    
    	Shawn,
    
    	Many people have relayed many stories about Ouija experiences,
    	some good and some not-so-good.  My own personal experiences
    	have been good but they've also already been expressed, or at
    	least the ones that I want to share, here.
    
    	And experiences can be so personal that the individual is not
    	ready to share it with others, especially in a public place as
    	DEJAVU.  Please respect that with patience.
    
    	Carla
    

Carla
    
    I'm not trying to pry into anybodys personal experiences.  I was
    just intersted in anything somebody would like to share.
    
                                        shawn    

    
    RE.233  (et al)
    
    not to mislead, but i do believe that node "SALEM" is in NH not
    MASS.....is that right Shawn?
    
    

    Yes you are right SALEM (NIO) is in N.H.
    
                                Shawn

    
    Shawn,
    
      I have,on a regular basis,entered some of my experiences here in
    DEJAVU. A lot of what I do is personal in nature. I have been
    communicating for the last 3 years or so. I havnt much lately. I have
    been able to communicate with many different spirits,some
    interesting,some not. I occasionally use it to find out things that may
    have occurred when I am not around. Sometimes the imformation has been
    given to me. I have been able to get messages from some relatives and
    for some friends. I dont understand how and why it works,but it does.
    My wife and I work it together. 
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

     Michael
    
    Thanks for writing.  If you don't mind, I have a question.
    What do you mean when you say "I occasionally use it to find out
    things that may have occured when I am not around." If it is 
    personal I understand.  ;*)
                                       curious
                                             Shawn

    
    
    Shawn,
    
      My contact on the Ouija board sort of "watches" over things when my
    wife and I are away. He has,on several occasions,told us of things that
    happened while we were away. We have confirmed this. So,sometimes,I
    will ask him about it if I feel a need. 
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Michael
    
    I'm not sure I understand.  Do you mean that he watches over things
    at your home, or things that happen in his world?
    
                                           Shawn

    
    Shawn,
    
      Both. His position of authority in his world requires his "watching"
    over his area of responsibilities. He also seems to watch over our home
    when we are at home or away,because he will mention things that
    happened when we are home,and,if we are away,he will tell us about
    things which we have confirmed many times. I dont understand how any of
    this works,although I have some theories of my own. I am just amazed at
    it and,my curiousity keeps me working with it.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Hello,
    
    I am a newcomer to this file.  I am very interested in this topic and I
    am eager to try the Ouija Board.  I understand that the board can be a
    dangerous tool, however I have read nearly half of the replies on this
    file and I must say, alot of it scars me.  I will not attempt the board
    until I am totally in a "positive" state of mind.
    
    What I wish to accomplish from the board, is to contact my broght who
    was killed in a car accident 10 years ago.  Can I accomplish this from
    the Ouija Board?  Should I do this alone?  My father just died in June,
    and I have 2 other very close relatives who also passed away within the
    last 5 years, could they be considered "guardians" of mine??  I still
    live in the same house I grew up in, would it help if I tried it there? 
    Or does the place matter?
    
    The only thing I'm concerned with is contacting a negative entity. 
    I've even gone as far as to make a few calls to people I know that have
    tried this, and asked for guidance on protection and cautions.
    
    I'd like to try this with one other person using the board with me, and
    another writing the responses down on paper.  Should I ask people who
    knew my brother?  Or should I ask anyone at all?
    
    All responses welcome, PLEASE!
    
    
    Thank you in advance,
    
    Melissa
    

    RE:8.244
    
    
    It was my brother who was killed in the car accident (typo "broght").
    
    Thanx,
    
    Melissa
    

    re: 8.223
    
    When you mentioned "CLEAN" a loaded board, what does this mean?  I do
    not understand the term "Clean".  Do you mean actually "clean" it, like
    with a household cleaner, or "clean" it of spirits?  How would this
    "Cleaning" be done?
    
    Just asking.
    
    Thanx
    
    Meliss

    

                 MELISSA 

                    WELCOME TO THE FILE. I AM A NEWCOMER MYSELF. I FIND
                    IT VERY INTERESTING THAT YOU WANT TO FIND YOUR DECEASED
                    BROTHER BY USING THE OUIJA BOARD. IF YOU DO USE THE
                    BOARD I SUGGEST THAT YOU BE VERY CAREFUL. I HEARD LOTS
                    OF STORIES. I MYSELF WOULD BE SCARED TO FIND SOMEONE I
                    LOVE BY MEANS OF EVIL.
                                            JOHN                   
                                                    

    John,
    
    I've decided to go another route, in regards to contacting by Brother. 
    A co-worker told me of a medium who practices locally, So I've made an
    appointment and I'm off to the medium.  
    
    We'll see.  It's almost as if my brother needs to speak to me for some
    reason.  I have a very strong desire to do this, yet, in the past, I
    never would have gotten involved with this sort of thing.
    
    Thanx for responding.
    
    Melissa

    MELISSA 
           
           I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE IT IF YOU WOULD RESPOND TO ME AFTER
    YOUR APPOINTMENT TO LET ME KNOW HOW IT WENT! ONLY IF YOU REALLY
    WANT TO OK! WELL GOOD LUCK!       
    
                                    JOHN
    
    
           

    
    
    Another newcomer here. I have only used a ouija board once nad not too
    seriously. I am still waiting for the one future event to happen to
    verify what the board said.
    
    I would like some clarification....
    
    		1. Many replies have stated that its dangerous to use the
    board, but not one has said what will happen. Also no one has said
    anything bad has happened directly to them because of the board. How
    about some specifics.
    
    ed

    ED,
    
      The imformation you seek is contained in this conference. You might
    want to do a dir/title=Ouija to find all the notes on the subject,which
    discusses the pros and cons. I have been working the Ouija for the last
    3 years.Some of my experiences are written in this conference.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Hello dejavu readers,
    
    I'm back!!  I had my appointment w/the medium last night.  I felt that
    she was very accurate in her impressions.  I brought my mom along for
    the session, she also thought she was accurate.  First she took
    something of mine (my watch) which I wear everyday, and she began
    telling me all about my life, past present and future.  *This woman
    only knows my first name, she does not know where I live, how old I am,
    or any other personal iformation about me.  When I made the appointment
    I told her my first name and gave her my work #, if she had to change
    the appointment for any reason.  I didn't even tell her how my brother
    died.
    
    Any way, she really said alot of things that hit the nail on the head!! 
    After reading me, she took my mom's watch and told her all about her
    life, past present and future!  My mom was shocked w/some of the things
    she said!!  Very accurate!!!  The medium (Ann) claimed that my brother
    was right in the room w/us and she could feel his presence VERY strong! 
    Also she could see and feel my Father's presence very strong.  She
    decribed him to a "T".
    
    I asked her to ask him (my brother) if there was something he wanted to
    say to me, (I felt that he brought me to her because he had something to
    say to me)she told me that he stressed to her for me to pray for his
    progress and elevation!!  He told he to tell me to "let go" so he can
    progress to higher elevations.  He told me that the more I mourn him,
    the slower it makes his progression, that I must let him go towrards
    God.  He and my father also wanted us to know that they are at peace. 
    She said one thing that both me & my mom can't understand what it
    means, but she said that if she says things that didn't make sense,
    than someday they will, it just hasn't happen yet!  
    
    We were there for one solid hour!  I will go again, She told me that I
    have spiritual powers within me, but I haven't figured out how to use
    them yet.  She told me that someday she could see me doing the same thing
    she was. 
    
    I am enlightened.  I'm glad I went.  And I will pray for him, although
    it will be hard to let go.
    
    Melissa 

    re .251
    
    OK , I looked thru the notes. Still no evidence of "bad" things
    happening because of the ouija board. All I see is a lot of "Ooohhhh,
    it's spooky " and the like. What physical things have happened and how
    many spirits have made it back thru the board.
    
    ed
    

    Here's a bad thing...
    
    When I was a teenager (I had just gotten my license so I was about
    16 yrs old.), My sister, freinds Jean, Rose, Bonnie, and myself
    (maybe others) fooled with a ouija board.
    
    We contacted someone who called himself Captain X (meaning I
    don't remember the name he used with Captain).  We asked
    about the future and he warned us of something that was to
    happen on September 13th (or was it the 9th), in the afternoon
    while driving.  This took place some time in the early spring,
    I remember it was kind of chilly out.
    
    So time went by and we really never gave it any thought.  That summer
    I got my license.  My sister (older) had just gotten a car
    (a used piece of junk) with her boyfreind.  September rolled
    around, and we would venture out for fun, smoke you-know-what
    and just kind of do things.   One day we went out to the 'flats'
    (located at the Grafton/Westboro line in MAssachusetts) to fly
    a kite.  It was a blustry warmish day.  When it was time to
    go home, I BEGGED my sister to let me drive. She did.
    
    We were rounding the bend on route 30 in Grafton when this grasshopper
    fly in the window.  Of course it scared the life out of me, I 
    remember it just repulsed me terribly (I don't usually mind bugs).
    I veered off the road and hit the guardrail.  I put a nasty dent
    in the car and my sister was totally P O 'd.  At the time I 
    remembered about the OUIJA incident so we checked the notes we
    made at the session. (We wrote down the responses and stuck
    them into the OUIJA box and forgot about them).  The date
    was that days date and the events were accurate.  
    
    My opinion is that Capt. X was either being helpful to warn
    us or was the one who caused it...kink of playing games with
    us down (or in) here.
    
    I wouldn't suggest using a OUIJA board unless you understand
    the spirit (or 'other') world alittle.   This way you'll 
    know how to deal with the situation...In my opiinion with
    out protecting yourself first (a thought of a circle of
    white light or something aloong those lines - there's a 
    note on that somewhere), then you danger yourself by opening
    up your thoughts to a world we don't know alot about
    (unless you are an experienced magus or adept in some
    spiritual thing). 
    
    So I agree with the initial warning given by Mr. Kallis
    at the beginning of this conference....
    
    
    Many blessings.
    joe p.

RE: .254 (joe p)
    
    It's also possible that this was an example of unconscious
    self-fulfilling prophecy.  That you did not *consciously* remeber the
    date has no bearing at all -- people often act unconsciously on things
    they have forgotten consciously.  Your atypical panic reaction to
    the insect might have been because you unconsciously associated it with
    the suddenly unconsciously remembered prediction, and the panic
    resulted in the accident.
    
    I see no particular reason in anything that was said here to believe that
    Captain "X" caused the accident in any more direct way.  I don't blame
    the weatherman on TV if it rains.
    
    						Topher

    
    So far not one incident of DIRECT spirit induced danger. Come on, put
    up or shut up.
    
    ed

    re .255
    	yeah you are probably right.  I know I didn't conciously
    	cause the accident - but maybe what you suggest is 
    	accurate.
    
    ed: so dive in!  See what happens.... but don't say we didn't warn
        ya!
    
    joe p

    yo ed...
    
    check out conference # 1108 having to do with someone's expereince
    with a O - board....
    
    joe p

                      
    Re.256 (Neumyer)
    
    >Come on, put up or shut up.
    
    Excuse me???  For a moment I thought I was in a conference other than
    DEJAVU - a place where all are welcome, their stories and all.  If you
    would rather not read them, then please use the <next unseen> key as
    opposed to writing words like the above.
    
    Cindy

    Hello, Dejavuers,
    
    	I have an old ouija, and am trying to find an appraiser of old
    games and toys.  Dunbar's of Milford has placed a price of $50. on
    this item, but believes  someone more familiar with this type of
    thing could give me a better estimate.
    
    	The board was purchased at a yard sale in 1967 by me, and I paid
    $20. for it then.  On the back is a label of directions and origin
    stating the mnf. was a WM. FULD, 1306 W.Central Ave, Baltimore, MD USA
    Factory & Showrooms 1226-1228 N. Central ave.
    	
    	Does anyone out there know of any game or occult article
    appraisers?  I would hate to sell this item only to find out 
    it was very rare and worth more.
    
    	It is in good condition, with a maple veneer front and back.  No
    planchette came with it.
    
    			Any info, let me know, Thanks,  Kristin

    Hello,
    I have been thinking about trying this for some time. I guess I
    just have to know for myself if something from another world exist.
    I am afraid from all of the responses that I have read but am still
    consumed with the thought of using it. I wonder what is out there
    and must once and for all find out for myself if there is more than
    I am aware of. Can anyone offer me any info about how to go about
    contacting someone from beyond. It would scare the heck out of me
    but I just have to know!

    react 261
    
    There are several ways for contacting the "others." Some of them will
    be already bescribed somewhere in this conference. I have used till
    now, three methods ;
    - the ouija-bord.
    - making a cross out of two pieces of wood. A nail right in the
    center of the cross, with the point sticking out. Write on a little
    paper the letters of the alphabet, the figures 0 - 9 and yes and
    no. Let four people put one side of the cross above the spot were
    the letters and figures are. The nail will touch the papers, when
    the "others" answer.
    - using a glass. Put your finger ( at least 3 people) on a glass
    on a table. Use the figures and letters and put them in a circle.
    Yes and no on opposite sides. The glass will slide for answers.
    
    WARNING !
    
    Watch out carefully. Do not do any of this method if you don't feel
    you can do it. I believe that we all have an inside mechanism that
    warns you to do this or not. If you feel insecure, don't do it.
    The powers you call upon you, either your own unconsious or from
    outside, can take over control. You need an experienced spiritist,
    medium or even an exorcist if you can't keep control !
    If you are lucky, nothing will happen. If you are still interested,
    only try it out with people who did it before out of interest, not
    only for excitement !
    
    Questions ?  ^O^

    Hows everyone doing?  I put a few notes in this conference back in
    November and December.  My user name was SALEM::SMORIN but now I'm at
    another DEC in Billerica Ma.  Anyways in my last note I said that if
    an oppurtunity arose that I would try it out.
    
    Well last Sunday night 2/25/90 that oppurtunity came.  I was with a 
    couple of friends, (Tammy & Greyson) one who had used A ouija-board
    before.  We were at my house and Tammy brought the ouija-board with 
    her. 
    
    We started by sitting on the floor with a couple of candles lit.
    We all sat around the board with our fingers on the board and
    concentrated on a white light surrounding us.  After about 5 minitues
    I asked if there was anyone in the room with us.  The planchette
    started to move very slowly towards YES.  I then asked the spirit
    his/her name.  It spelled BEN.  We asked what year he died.  His reply 
    was 3/14/32. Before we could ask it another question it continued to
    spell  H E L P.  We then asked where he was.  He then spelled H E L L.
    Well needless to say we were all a little shaken up.  None of us new
    what to ask it next. The planchette continued to move to the bottom of
    the board to goodbye.  Thats where the planchette stopped moving. It
    was so weird, you could almost sense him leaving the room.
    
    Does anyone have any comments about this experience.  I would be very
    interested in anything anyone has to say.
    
                                               Shawn

    Re .263 (Shawn):
    
    >I asked if there was anyone in the room with us.  The planchette
    >started to move very slowly towards YES. ..
     
    > ...
    
    > ... We then asked where he was.  He then spelled H E L L. ...
    
    Sounds like "Ben" has a little positional difficulty.
    
    > ... We asked what year he died.  His reply was 3/14/32.
                                                 
    "32" could take in a lot of years.  (1932, 1832, 1732, ... etc.)
    
    It's hard to check the validity of such an experience.  It could
    be a real spirit, something passing itself off as a spirit, a form
    of telekinesis, etc.
    
    However, accepting "Ben"'s comments at face value (a rash thing
    to do), two points:
    
    1) Conventional Hell doesn't come with furloughs.  ["Abandon all
       hope, ye who enter here.']
    
    2) The question, "How can we help?" might at least have supplied
       further data.  Whether one wished to act on such data might be
       another thing altogether.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Steve
    
    The question, "How can we help?" did come into mind but, I could'nt 
    ask it.  I think I was afraid of its reply.  
    
    In my last note I did'nt mention that we tried it again afterwards.
    This time we talked to some one named RANDAL.  Every time we asked it 
    something, all it did was move from R to E and vice versa.  After a 
    while RANDAL left.  Does this mean anything to anyone?  
    
                                             Shawn
    
    

RE: .263 (Shawn)
    
    I have no way of knowing what caused the events which you experienced
    and report in .263, but it does seem worth mentioning that the events
    described are completely explainable -- and entirely expected under
    the circumstances -- in terms of well understood psychophysiological
    principles.  These explanations do not in any way require or imply that
    you or your companions are or were fraudulent, gullible, stupid,
    weak-minded or otherwise wierd.  They only require that you be human.
    Of course, that events can be conventionally explained does not mean
    that the conventional explanation is the correct one, but nothing
    you reported would indicate that your experiment didn't simply
    demonstrate one of the amazing but well understood characteristics of
    the human mind.
    
    						Topher

    
    There are times that I put on my skeptic hat,then,I talk with Jim,my
    contact,and,he stuns me with information that I have no knowledge
    of,which I have confirmed several times! Well,something here is not
    normal. My children dont like the Ouija,because it tells on them! Just
    recently Jim told me of some things my children were doing. I
    confronted them with it,and,they denied it,until Jim told me exactly
    where I could find the evidence. He knew in detail. They know they cant
    hide things from Jim. Whether it is a spirit at work here,or,something
    else,it is very much paranormal. I allowed a friend of mine to talk
    with Jim over the week-end. I was not on the board,just my wife and my
    friend. The character did not change. It made no difference,it was
    still Jim. Still amazed by it. 
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Mike,
     Have you tried having someone  in your family hiding something
     with you not knowing the object or the hiding place and see if
    "JIM" can tell you waht and where it is. very interesting.
                 Bill-

    
    well,no,but,I have had Jim tell me where things were without either my
    wife or I knowing about it. Jim told us exactly where our children had
    hidden things they didnt want us to see. When confronted with the
    facts,they had to reveal it to us,or,we would have found it anyway.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

RE: .267 (Michael)
    
    Michael, I am the last person to deny the existence of paranormal
    phenomena, nor that the Ouija board may be, at times, a medium by which
    such phenomena manifests, but, some points to keep in mind:
    
    - That the personality which manifests through the Ouija board has
    access to apparently paranormally obtained information does not mean
    that the personality is distinct from the Ouija board's operators.
    People seem to be able to subconsciously tap into paranormal sources of
    information without any sign of intervention or mediation by
    disincarnate personalities.  (I know from previous discussions with you
    Michael that you understand this;  I am making this point for others.
    
    - That paranormal manifestations for some operators, boards, sessions,
    etc. occurs does not imply that such paranormal manifestations are
    universal or even common in using the Ouija board.  The evidence is
    quite overwhelming that most personalities which manifest through the
    Ouija board are products of the operator's subconscious (NOTE: this does
    *not* make them savory characters, nor does it make playing games with
    your own subconscious a harmless game).  These personalities have much
    the same "reality status" and independence as the people you meet in
    dreams -- they are quite independent of your "consciousness" but they
    are not independent of "you".  The question is not whether or not the
    Ouija board generally produces paranormal phenomena nor whether the Ouija
    board generally communicates paranormal information -- those issues
    are both strongly settled to the negative.  The question is whether
    there are exceptional positive answers among the vast majority of
    negative ones.
    
    -  I was commenting on a specific incident.  There was absolutely
    nothing in that report to distinguish it from the majority of Ouija
    experiences which are produced by conventional (but not simple)
    subconscious mechanisms.  I realize that the "I am in Hell" answer is
    one familiar to you from your interactions with Jim, but it is
    essentially a "stock answer" -- Heaven or Hell are the only answers
    that are really expected by people with a Christian background (even if
    they have consciously placed that background behind them), and Hell
    fits with most operators feelings of tampering with the forbidden.
    Whether or not it is true for Jim, it is the answer which one would
    expect to be the most frequent from subconsciously generated
    personalities.
    
    - If any of the operators already knew Jim, then it is completely to be
    expected that Jim's personality would remain substantially intact with
    the introduction of a new operator.  I know your wife has previously
    met Jim, so this really gives no evidence for his independent
    existence.  If Jim were to manifest for a set of operators none of whom
    had ever met him -- preferably without any of Jim's aquaintences
    present -- and Jim's personality were identifiable under double-blind
    conditions from transcripts, then there would be evidence (not proof,
    but good evidence) of Jim's independence.
    
    - I can't emphasize this enough.  A fact known by any of the operators
    will be expected to be known by the Ouija personality.  Anything which
    any of the operators knew, or might have known, at any previous time,
    even if they have consciously forgotten it, and even if they have
    consciously forgotten having once known it; might easily be known to
    the Ouija personality.  Anything which might be deduced or guessed at
    by the operators on the basis of any piece of consiously remembered,
    forgotten, noticed or unnoticed information, even if it would take a
    "genius" to do so, might be deduced or guessed by the Ouija personality
    (which is why I refer to him/her as the "Sherlock Holmes in your
    Head").
    
    - Generally *anyone present in the room*, whether or not they are in
    contact with the planchette, *can be considered to be operators*.  The
    Ouija board is marvelously designed for unconscious playing of "hot-
    warm-cold."  Is it amazing that two people can use the Ouija in that
    way to communicate highly detailed knowledge without either being
    consciously aware of it?  Without question -- conventional human
    capabilities are truely amazing.  Does that imply that anything
    paranormal is taking place?  Absolutly not!  If your children were
    not present when Jim revealed where the evidence was than this incident
    *might* be evidence for paranormality (depending on how unlikely it
    would be for a very, very smart and observant person to deduce or
    guess).  If your children were present than, no matter how amazing, it
    is not evidence for paranormality (NOTE: once more, that it is not
    evidence of paranormality does not mean that it is not paranormal, only
    that we do not have a basis for distinguishing it from conventional
    phenomena).
    
    					Topher

    
    Yes,Topher,I am aware of your viewpoints,and,I agree with the major
    parts of them. I also however,have experienced some things that I would
    consider to be paranormal. The imformation we were given about the
    children was given when they were not present. We confronted them later
    with the facts. Neither my wife or I had any idea or suspicion that
    anything was going on. This happens on a regular basis,and,not while
    they are present. If not paranormal,then,a very good case for it.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    re .270
    
    Hi Topher,
    
    I can follow your comments and I believe in many cases you are right.
    Many times I did it I had the same idea as you have. There were
    however some exceptions ;
    Once we had a spirit who gave a full name and adress ( the house
    where we did our seance), job and date of dying. He gave us very
    detailled description of the surroundings, only from about a 100
    year before. He told some amazing things and also said he could
    see our future. Sceptic as I was, I asked him were I would be the
    next day at 3.00 A.M. He gave an answer I really couldn't believe,
    my plans were completely different. But, you understand already,
    next day I was sitting at 3.00 o'clock sitting on the place he
    mentioned. It was in a pub were a very old clock was hanging...And
    at three the thing did bang-bang-bang (as it should do). Only, the
    barkeeper said that the thing hadn't worked for ages....And I had
    forgotten what the spirit had said, untill that moment....
    Still I believed it would be my own or others subconsious untill
    somebody found out that name and adress and job did exist ! Somebody,
    not attending the seance had searched that for us. And speaking
    later to older people I found out that the description of the
    surroundings also was fabulous.....Also other details of the house
    we found out later ( and no one of us could know) appeared to be
    right....
    The other moment was the time when a girl, did ouija for the first
    time. At first laughing and believing it was all nuts...but suddenly
    she looked very serious and got very pale. I described this moment
    in another note TERZA::PSYCHOLOGY. I had the feeling that a unknown
    power had "taken her over." I really had to concentrate ( don't
    ask me how I did that) to let the force disappear.....
    For me a reason to stop with the ouija. Frightened that I can't
    control it next time.....
    
    John ^O^

RE: .272 (John ^O^)
    
    - Let me reiterate.  I believe that there do exist phenomena which have
    to be described at the present time as "paranormal" (meaning we
    fundamentally do not understand them).  These existence of some of
    these phenomena, specifically ESP and PK, have been established under
    rigorous laboratory conditions.  These studies indicate that these
    phenomena are best described as *subconscious* abilities.  Since the
    Ouija board seems to be a fairly effective method of tapping into
    certain aspects of the subconscious -- manifesting by the creation
    of artificial, subconscious personalities -- it is not only possible,
    but even probable that paranormal phenomena, specifically ESP, may
    sometimes manifest.  That is, I would expect that the subconscious
    personalities manifest in the Ouija board would be able, *occasionally*
    to use information obtained via ESP to support the illusion (which, in
    some sense, they share) of their independent existence.
    
    I do not, therefore, in any way, deny or question that the Ouija may
    occasionally be the medium for the manifestation of paranormal
    phenomena.
    
    - However, you should also know that there is much, much more that we
    can know or guess subconsciously than we consciously know we know.
    There is no way to rule out the possability that all the information
    about the surroundings 100 years ago came from hints and guesses that
    you were completely unaware of: a newspaper article which you don't
    remember reading -- or which was visible to you for a while even though
    you didn't, consciously, read it; subtle discolorings and bumps in the
    walls indicating old positions of furniture, doorways, walls etc.;
    old woodcuts casually seen; conversations not consciously overheard;
    general deductions on the basis of general knowledge of the period
    which you have consciously forgotten; etc., etc., etc..  Remember that
    there is a Sherlock Holmes living in your head.
    
    - Since you give no details of how your plans ended up changing its a
    bit hard for us to know how much weight to give to the incident of
    you ending up in the pub.  If you could have subtly or not-so-subtly
    influenced the probability of you being in the pub at that time, then
    there is absolutely nothing to explain.  It should be no surprise that
    the subconscious can effect our actions without our being aware of it.
    It seems rather significant to me that you *did not* remember the
    prediction from just the night before.
    
    - Again it is rather hard to judge just how much weight to give to the
    clock incident.  Amazing coincidences happen all the time.  It is
    astoundingly unlikely that a particular astoundingly unlikely event
    will occur, but it is almost certain that out of the many, many
    astoundingly unlikely events which could happen, that some *will*
    happen.  On the other hand, it might be a legitimate example of PK.
    
    - Overall the evidence is only moderate that anything paranormal took
    place here (at least on the basis of what you have reported).  Even
    if something paranormal did take place, then I see no strong evidence
    that a completely independent personality was involved.
    
    - Once again -- lack of evidence is not the same of evidence of lack.  I
    don't know whether or not there was paranormal phenomena involved, and
    if so whether or not an independent "spirit" was involved.  But, so
    far at least, you have given me only a weak reason to believe the
    former and virtually no reason to beleive the latter.
    
    - As far as the apparent brief "possession":  I have said it before,
    that most (all?) Ouija personalities are products of the subconscious
    does not make it safe to muck with them.  Nothing you said makes
    me believe that the "possesing spirit" was external to her, but that
    does not make the "possesion" any less likely a serious incident.  On
    the other hand, nothing you said has excluded that she was only
    suffering a momentary muscular spasm or a petit mal seizure (which she
    might suffer periodically without you being aware of) or whatever.
    Your "feelings" count a great deal -- but not as evidence.
    
    					  Topher

    re.273 (Topher)
    Hi Topher,
    
    I hope you didn't red my reply to you as an offense, I'm still
    brainstorming myself. I think you have a point there, a point I
    see often in this conference. It is very difficult to find evidence
    that could give the one and right answer to these phenomena. It
    stays guessing and interpretating things that occur to us.
    I found it a pity to write down my story (.272), so many extra
    information got lost by writing in stead of telling it to you.
    Let me be clear to you, I really believe that most of the ouija
    experiences are from the subconsious. But some incidents make me
    doubt a lot. If I understand you well, it's the same with you, right
    I cannot let to tell another story. Not to offend but to give you
    more info about my doubts.
    Once I attended a seance as observer. You know, a group of older
    ladies, coming together once a week to ask questions like ; "will
    I be in love again, when do I die and so on." The answers however
    were always very diplomatic and sometimes very funny. Suddenly the
    boyfriend of the daughter of the house appeared ( not on the table
    ofcourse). The spirit said he had a message for that guy. He didn't
    believe the whole theatre so he asked what it was. "Your Mother
    is dead !" Well, it wasn't a secret that the woman was very ill.
    But she was improving, and the boy, just returning from the hospital
    got very angry." I can't laugh with these jokes, tell me, great
    ghost, what's the name of the doctor who controlled that ?" The
    answer was dr X ( I don't remember). The boy replied :"You see it's
    a lie, only a quarter of an hour ago the only doctor was dr Y.
    Exactly on that moment dr X called to tell him that his mother died...
    Dr Y had to visit somebody suddenly and X had just arrived to replace
    Y. You can imagine how the boy felt. He never deared to come in
    the house when the ladies were meeting........
    I know, also in this story it could be possible that the subconsiouses
    were working. Especially people who just die cab sent out very strong
    messages..... But, something made me doubt much.....
    OK, for so far,
    
    still thinking but also giving best greetings,
    
    John ^0^ 

RE: .274 (John ^0^)
    
    > I hope you didn't read my reply to you as an offense,
    
    Not at all -- if anything just the opposite.  Someone who is willing
    to discuss these issue and provide data in the form of there own
    experiences is doing me a favor.  Even if they don't entirely agree
    with me (which I'm not sure is the case for you).
    
    It seems to me there are several issues:
    
    1) Does the planchette move the operator's hand, or does the operator's
       hand (without the operators conscious knowledge) move the
       planchette?
    
    2) Are the personalities manifest in Ouija sessions external to the
       operators (e.g., they are spirits of the dead, or are demons) or
       are they sophisticated manifestations of the operators'
       subconsciouses?
    
    3) Is the information presented in a Ouija board session obtained from
       conventional sources or is it obtained paranormally.
    
    All three of these questions need to be answered in terms of frequency:
    "always thus", "almost always thus", "sometimes thus" "never thus" etc.
    
    In my opinion the evidence is very strong that the "conventional"
    answer is correct almost all the time.
    
    The major evidence that the Ouija personalities are "spirits" rather
    than manifestations of the operator's subconscious is that they are
    able to present information which the operator could only have obtained
    paranormally.  Sidestepping the issue of how very, very difficult it
    is to rule out conventional sources of information, we nevertheless
    know both from spontaneous instances and laboratory studies, that
    people seem to be able to obtain information paranormally without the
    apparent need for the intervention of spirits.
    
    The argument then comes down to claims that the amount or coherence of
    the information rules out ESP.  But we know virtually nothing about
    the limits of ESP.  Until we understand it better (something which I
    am trying to do) arguments based on its supposed limits are weak at
    best.  Furthermore, given the support of the conventional mechanisms
    which the "skeptics" try to force into explaining all such phenomena,
    the amount or coherence of the information may not be that high.
    
    While I am willing (even anxious) to be convinced otherwise, I think
    that the Ouija board simply provides an outlet for subconscious
    personalities to express themselves.  They almost always use
    information obtained in conventional ways, although sometimes the
    conventional ways are extremely subtle.  Occasionally, the
    subconsciously generated personalities add small amounts of
    paranormally obtained information to support the illusion of their
    independence.
    
    None of the cases you described seem at variance with these beliefs.
    
    					Topher

    Hi Topher,
    
    There is a point in what you say. My problem is, how can we put
    up some good evidence in that. In all the sessions I did I tried
    this, but as you saw there is always some sort of explanation.
    Only, an explanation is an interpretation, and not a waterproof
    evidence.... I studied parapsychology and stopped because I had
    to deal with two ways of looking at phenomena ; one who just did
    research on telepathy by putting someone in a room. In the room
    next door someone would draw something and the guessing was a fact.
    When somebody scored more than the statistical chance (don't ask
    me what) he was paranormal ( watch the word ; here it means every
    phenomena which has no scientifical explanation (then telepathy
    wasn't scientifical evidence as now). The other group was against
    the way science is doing research on the world. Instead of trying
    to set up an alternative they dived away in philosophy. Interesting
    but no base to put your theory on.....
    For that reason I only believe now what I feel. Believing your feelings
    is for me a way to look at the world, not the truth.....
    Sorry have to stop, I continue later....
    
    John ^O^

    Back again.....
    What I wanted to tell is, you state that the evidence clearly is
    pointing to the subconsious. In many situations I believe it could
    be so ( because I feel it that way) in other I'm not sure. The evidence
    is not clear to me, it doesn't prove anything. The evidence doesn't
    give any direction if we are dealing with a other "entity" or the
    subconsious of a living human being. I wish it would be that clear.
    That's the reason why we try to explain these things, but the actual
    truth ? Who knows. Or do you have clear evidence to state the
    subconsious of the operator is actually the source ? Please, let
    me know....
    Something else I didn't write here yet is that the Ouija-bord isn't
    used much here in the Netherlands. Instead of that we use a turned
    glass and put our fingers on it. So more people can join and the
    control (muscle-movements, or the touch of the glass) is better.
    Doing this with serious people, while others watch, is a way of
    controlling someone's pushing ( don't care un- or consious).
    Around the glass we have spreaded the alphabet, numbers and the
    words yes and no. Sometimes the glide is so fast you can hardly
    follow which letters it's pointing.........
    Has anyone suggestions how we can improve our evidence ?
    
    still thinking......John ^O^

RE: .277 (John ^0^)
    
    I'd like to answer more fully when I have a chance, but as for:
    
    > Has anyone suggestions how we can improve our evidence ?
    
    There has been a lot of thought put into experiments intended to
    demonstrate post-mortem survival.  I direct your attention to note
    1105 where one test is discussed.
    
    					Topher

    re.278 (Topher)
    
    Just a quick and dirty from my side ( I am not playing the game
    you answer short, I answer short). It's because I have a meeting
    What do you think of 1205 ?
    Hope to get soon back on you, ciao...

RE: .279 (John O^O)
    
    I think that it is an excellent example of a apparition phenomena, and
    a touching story as well.  But except that the visual channel is a bit
    more resistant (but far from completely resistant) to such overt messages
    from the subconscious, I don't see that it is evidentially any
    different from Ouija board experiences with possible paranormal
    content.
    
    (Sorry, for my continued brevity -- I'm really bogged down with work).
    
    					Topher

    re .280 (Topher)
    How do you know I wear glasses ?!
    
    You are really tough, aren't you ? But let me still trying to turn
    the getting evidence around. For me the 1105 was no evidence
    enough...You have very logical interpretation and explanation, but
    still not the hard evidence that these phenomena are from the human
    subconsious. In the 1105, I think someone living and strongly telepatic
    could find it out.......
    On the other hand I'm very impressed about the unexplored powers
    of the human mind. I can imagine that we are able to do much more
    than we actually know.
    In any case, Topher, thanks for your inputs. I think we will meet
    again in this topic or conference, right ?
    I have to work now too .......I have to watch not to loose to much
    time here in notes !
    Wish you a good weekend...John ^O^

    Any U.K noters know how I can get hold of a board.???
    
    Good money paid.
    
    p.s I am very experienced in this field!!

This should probably go in a humor note somewhere but...

I heard a short piece by Howie Mandell.  He said he went to a
restaurant called "The Ouija".  His comment, "The food was great
but the tables kept moving around".

Terry

    
    The closest I've come to speaking with evil on the board is, once,
    when I asked who we were speaking to, the planchette moved to D..E..V
    and then my friend and I immediately removed our hands!  
    
    Does anyone know if it is bad to use the Ouija board too much? 
    Someone told me you shouldn't use it every day.  Just wondering.
    
    CG

    I have never written (or talked) about Ouji boards, because I only ever
    did anything with one when I was about 12.  I was with my sister and
    cousin (female - so am I) and my cousin brough out the board.  I don't
    remember any of the question we asked except one: I asked "how old will
    I be when I get married?"  I remember this question, and I remember the
    answer, AND...I rememeber "testing" by having all of us take our
    fingers off at the same time.....AND IT KEPT MOVING FOR A SECOND OR
    TWO!  I was NEVER so scared....I "tested" right after I got the answer
    to my question..it answered "23"...being 12, that was an eternity.  But
    I never forgot.
    
    When I was 22 I met a man that I REALLY liked, and for the 1st time in
    my life I was a tiny bit ggressive.  He started going out.  My first
    REAL love....and lover.  Well, he dumped me after 1 year....he had been
    engaged to another woman since 2 months AFTER we started seeing each
    other.  He never told me (she was in another state) until 6 months
    later....I worked with him so I quit my job.  I WOULD have married
    him..he admitted he wasn't in love with me at first, but really was at
    the end....long story (she pressured him, he thought I was "too quick"
    (mentally) for him (ANGER!!!!!!) ..etc) anyway, I WAS 23!!  Butsine he
    dumped me (thank God, in retrospect)..it's been 3 more years and no
    go..marriage wise. 
    
    I waited 11 years for that D*MN Ouji board prediction, only to say a!
    You were wrong!
    
    Sorry for babbling...but I was SO SCARED, that I believed it for 11
    years.... was I a total jerk or what?
    

    RE .-1 sorry for the typos....evidently the noise on this modem line
    has a mind of it's own when it "accepts" my reply.
    

Just read the two previous Ouija board experiences.  Even if I weren't
a Christian, it sounds like you're playing with fire.

    could someone tell me how you can find out the name of the spirit of a
    particular board?  We've been able to call up a spirit from another
    friend's board, and he tells us which spirits are evil.  But I've been
    too scared to just ask "Who is the spirit of this board?" because I've
    heard that it spells out S-A-T-A-N.  Is this true?
    
             Thanks!
    
             Jennifer
    

    
    Jennifer,
    
      You may,or,may not,get an answer. Be direct,and,ask their name. If
    you dont,they will play along and make it a game. The main thing is to
    show a genuine interest in who they are. If they answer by saying
    Satan,then,continue to ask who "they" are,really. 
    
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Thank you for your answer.  I have another question.  If it does say
    Satan, that doesn't mean it is an "evil spirit"?  How can you tell if
    the spirit is evil?  We always surround ourselves with light,  and when
    Rick, a spirit that we've befriended, is on the board, we know because
    he shows us a sign that we have.  He also gave us nicknames, so we know
    for sure when we are talking to him.  But when the planchette starts
    moving differently, we get kind of scared because there are some
    spirits that aren't all that friendly.  When a spirit spells out Satan,
    we get off the board.
    Also, is it possible for a spirit to try to warn one of the people on
    the board of the other person on the board.  I was on the board with a
    girl that I haven't always gotten along with.  Rick wouldn't answer any
    questions, and instead asked, "Lori (the girl), who do you hate?"  At
    that point the phone rang. My friend got on with me, and immediately
    the board spelled out Andrew, which is who was on the phone when Lori
    answered it.  After Lori was off the board, it spelled out EVIL, and
    BEWARE.  My friends who were there with me told me later that they
    thought Rick was trying to warn me about Lori.  What do you think?
    
    Jennifer
    

    
    Jennifer,
    
      If you havnt already,I would suggest you read all the notes in here
    on this subject. The answers to your questions is there. There are many
    notes about this,so,it may take you a while,but,will give you a lot to
    think about. IMO,anything you are told by these spirits should be
    tested and questioned. Dont let them lead you on unless there is solid
    hard evidence of the truth. They may not like your friend,for one
    reason or another and want to start trouble. These spirits are
    individuals,and,should be dealt with as you would deal with people you
    would meet here in the physical world. Each one will have a different
    personality and operate the planchette differently. You will be able to
    tell their moods by the way the pointer moves,sometimes very
    energetic,sometimes slow methotical,sometimes quick,agitated,missing
    letters. It is very interesting,but,use your head,dont let them be in
    control,you be in control.
    
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    	Just wanted to say Thanks! to all of the people that participated
    in this note file. I had only one experience with the ouija and was 
    to young to remember what happened.  I think we were just playing 
    around.  I'm very facinated about the board but not enough to buy
    my on board.  Maybe one day I'll try it, but I'm not in any hury.
    	It makes interesting reading, from .1 to .291.  Again thanks
    for the stories.
    				Later,
    
    					***************
    					*             *
    					* Awesome Ant *
    					*	      *
    					***************

    I have a question.  The planchette I have has a hole in it covered by
    a clear piece of plastic.  The plastic has a small hole in it the size
    of a pinhole.  When I borrowed this board, the brass tack that origi-
    nally came with the planchette was missing.  I tried replacing it first
    with a straight pin, then a plastic-covered metal tack.  I got
    absolutely no response from the board.  Can anyone tell me if that
    brass tack is mandatory to receiving a response or does it not matter?
    
    L.
    

    re..293
    
    
                   As I understand it the brass tack is just a pointer
    device to help in determining which letter or number is indicated.
    I further understand that a simple inverted (stem type) wine glass 
    will work too. 
    
    
                                  Later,
                                   Mark
    
    

    Hello,
         I've been reading this file with great interest. My husband used a
    weejee  before I met him, he said he has contacted his best friend and
    blood brother, Mark, Mark shot himself last october and says he has to
    stay here and learn what he did wrong. My question, my husband is an
    alchohlic and drug addict, we are both clean and sober now for a while,
    I have brought up trying to contact Mark again, but was wondering if
    something other than Mark was contacting my husband at the time since
    his mind and body where in such bad shape and maybe he didn't realize
    it. Can we decide who we want to reach and has anyone else heard of a
    spirit staying here to learn?
    
    Thanks,
    Caroline
    

    re .295
    
    Hi Caroline,
    
    it's nice to see that you can ask a question and answer it yourself :
    it could be possible that you had the right spirit, it could also be
    another one. You never no, you have no facts who can tell....
    I always try to find out what I feel. I mean, if I feel well, I think I
    have a friendly spirit. If I feel bad, I stop immediately.....but a
    100% garantee, no way.......
    I have heard from people who indeed did stupid things, after they did
    ouija.....others got mentally sick......
    So I can only say, don't rely to much unless you are absolutely sure...
    
    Hope this helps......
    
    John ^O^

    
    During the holidays I brought up the topic of the Ouija board and I
    heard an interesting story.
    Apparently , my friends were camping this past summer in northern NH.
    They had been using the board while sitting around the campfire one
    evening. They apparently had been conversing with a spirit. They had
    asked many questions of it and finally, almost jokingly asked it to
    show itself. The next message from the board said "Grey Fox" and this
    is the truth, a moment later a Grey Fox (which is quite rare to appear
    near humans) walked through their camp and then back into the woods !
    
    Todd
    

    This is an experience as related to me by a friend. When she was
    married and living in London, England herself and her husband along
    with another couple would often use the Ouija board. She said they
    almost always got a response especially if she was present and was
    asking the questions. While they never really took it seriously always
    doing it 'for a laugh', once she said they all took their fingers off
    the glass and it carried on moving. They never had any real thought
    provoking experiences until one night when asking the 'spirit' where
    he lived the reply was 'in a house built on this land before the house
    they were in as built' - last century some time. They then asked
    personnal details about his name, birth/death date and how he could
    prove it was true, he said he was buried at the bottom of the garden
    and there should be a headstone there. They all laughed after this
    but after a couple of days as there was no headstone at the bottom
    of the garden decided to dig it up and found the  headstone with the
    details given. I can only vouch for the person who related the
    experience to me as obviously one of the others could have set the
    whole thing up by burying such a headstone in the night, but it was
    quite a thought provoking experience.
    
    regards
    
    Lewis
     

Guys

I believe in : telepathy, premonitions, ouji boards and ghosts.  I only believe 
because I have experienced all four at close quarters.

I also believe in life and really enjoying the few years we get to spend on this 
planet.  I've seen death up close and believe me life is sweet.

What I do not believe is the absolute fascination many of you seem to have with 
death and evil forces, while I do not dispute that they exist I would really 
appreciate it if you would LIGHTEN UP A LITTLE.

Less of the Doom and Gloom please guys ?

Gillian

 

Re .299 (Gillian):

I believe the responses are less "doom and gloom" than cautionary.  The problem
with a Ouija board, to take that first, is that it's highly unselective.
"Is anybody there?" isn't very specific (at least in a standard seance, the
medium looks for a specific entity such as the proverbial "Uncle Charlie").

With respect to ghosts, I suppose some want to make sure that what they're
encountering is really a ghost rather than something else masquerading as one.
(Hamlet had a similar concern in Willie Shakespeare's drama of that name.)

Telepathy and premonition are inherently subjective experiences.

SWho hasn't lightened up?

Steve Kallis, Jr.

    re: .298
    
    Lewis, why did they stop digging???  Speculation on whether the 
    headstone was a "plant" is one thing, but human remains, now that's
    something else, considering an M.E. would get involved, and etc.
    
    I understand about possibly not wanting to disturb someone's remains
    (especially when you've just spoken with him), but this seems to be yet
    another instance of not taking an event to its logical conclusion to
    give a more completeness to a paranormal occurance.
    
    I just realized something: I've been maintaining nothing paranormal
    (or extraterrestrial, for that matter) would ever happen to me as
    I either "just miss it" or whatever was supposed to happen doesn't
    happen when I'm there (I've also been accused of having "negative
    vibes"; that is, my skepticism prevents the occurance or angers the
    "powers that be" to refuse to perform), but the last two Ouija Board
    stories caused me to make the connection to an exprience involving
    an Ouija Board, a slightly "spooky dude", and a Dark and Stormy night
    'way back in 1969.  The ol' memory is a bit hazy on the details, so 
    I'll have to work at it to put it all together & post it here.  (If
    I haven't already; after all, this *is* Dejavu.)
    
    						    	Don

    
    There have been a few enquiries as to what unpleasantries can occur
    when things don't go exactly as hoped for. I have one story that may
    interest those who are curious and/or worried about using the board.
    
    A group of youngsters, some of whom had used the board before with
    varying degrees of success, got together one evening and after a period
    of absolute silence from the board established contact with an
    individual who literally burst in on them. The story has it that he had
    the same effect on them as a bull in a china shop. Apparently he was
    the victim of a fatal motorcycling accident and was really very angry
    at having his physical life snuffed out so quickly. The contact was
    immediately aggressive and threatening, and the youngsters were aware
    of a presence in the room with them. They broke off the contact and
    later got rid of the board, however the contact did not end there. The
    aggressor managed to keep the "channel" open and began to pick on one
    lad who had been present at the ouija meeting. Over the next few months
    this boy was subjected to threatening behaviour; crockery flying off
    shelves at him, stumbling down stairwells, and feeling a threatening
    presence in his room with him at night. Bad enough an experience for
    anyone, especially a young child. It would seem that the aggressor had
    decided to "hound" the boy, and apparently this lasted for a long time
    before gradually subsiding in frequency.
    
    I read this account in a reference book on the paranormal, and the
    above transcript is obviously somewhat compressed. It struck me how
    much it resembled the poltergeist film "The Entity" (I think, anyway!).
    Whatever the similarities and however credible the story is (I wouldn't
    stake my life on it), it does point to the possibility that just because
    an operator may sever a contact doesn't mean that the "spirit"
    contacted has to follow suite, especially if you have contacted a
    powerful entity, or are inexperienced. As far as potentially bad or
    hazardous occurences I would suggest that if you are a new or novice
    user of the ouija you would not realise that something might be about
    to go wrong. This may well be one of the most worried about parts of
    experimenting with the board.
    
    Thus, perhaps it may not be such a good idea to try it unless you are
    confident that you can handle what you are doing; it may be that this
    confidence is what "wards off" potential troublemakers. Whether you
    give the above story any credibility or not, it would be interesting to
    hear peoples opinions on points raised here.    
      
                                         Jeremy
    
    

    Re .302 (Jeremy):
    
    >I read this account in a reference book on the paranormal, and the
    >above transcript is obviously somewhat compressed. It struck me how
    >much it resembled the poltergeist film "The Entity" (I think, anyway!).
    
    _The Entity_ was the story of a woman who was repeatedly and brutally
    raped by an invisible [and possibly demonic] being.  The film is
    unpleasant, though the edited-for-television version isn't too bad. 
    Did anything of that ilk happen to the boy in question?
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Re. 303
    
    Glad to see that someone's still watching! This conference started many
    moons ago and so I doubted whether people would still be writing in by
    1992.
    
    No, memory tells me that the boy wasn't molested sexually, although he
    was subjected to lesser physical assault (flying objects, things thrown
    through his windows, etc) and, at least at the beginning, a virtually
    continuous torrent of intimidatory behaviour. Not pleasant. The most
    violent action by the aggressor was to "seize" the boys hands whilst he
    was riding his bike and jerk the handle-bars out of his grip. I know
    that a number of my freinds have also heard of this story, but they
    understand that the boys family moved from their house, believing it to
    be haunted and the aggressor followed them; I'm not sure about that,
    however........
    
    The boy in question was in his early teens, which would  tie in with
    the theory the poltergeist activity centres around adolescents; in this
    case possibly triggered by fear, so resulting in a series of aggressive
    subconcious incidents. Alternatively the aggressor could have been a
    very real threat. The account written in the story was slightly
    sensationalised, but based on fact.
        

         Some friends and I are planning to have a Ouija session on
    Halloween. The site we have chosen is VERY close to a grave-yard that
    dates back to the 1800's. Many who are interned there died from
    cholera, exposure, Indians, gunfights and animal attacks. Colorado was
    a very tough place to live in when it was still part of the Kansas
    territory. Does anyone have any opinion, facts, stories or anythings
    else they can share on the subject of a Halloween Oujia session and\or
    performing it near an old grave-yard?
    
    Thanks,
            Drew...
    
    

    
    On contacting the spirits of the dead in general: wait until AFTER
    midnight.  Given what possibly is occurring on this night, plus the
    general risks involved with a Ouija board, makes this a BAD plan unless
    you really know what you are doing.
    
    Beth

    
    	I agree and second the motion of .306,
    	unless you are thoroughly familiar with
    	the inhabitants and risks of the Astral plane, 
    	which are the ones you will be contacting, you
    	are putting yourself at risk by doing that.
    
    	Of course, the ultimate decision is yours,
    	you know the saying: You can take a horse
    	to the water, but you can't make him drink.
    
    			

    I agree with the others. Using a Ouija Board on All-Hallows Eve, in a
    graveyard, especially one with a history of death to the inhabitants by
    illness, or violence, is IMHO very dangerous. You leave yourself open
    to all sorts of things by doing this.
    
    You know, I was just thinking, (don't laugh gang. I have been known to
    occasionally practice this method of coming up with ideas.) One of the
    reasons for the danger of Ouija Boards might be that when one is using
    it, chances are that one has not cast the proper protective spells or
    wards or circles. This leaves a person open to all sorts of nasties.
    If this has been stated before, then I apologize. It just came unbidden
    into my brain.
    
    PJ

RE: .308 (PJ)

>    It just came unbidden into my brain.

    From where I wonder? :-)

				Topher

    Topher, probably from where most of my thoughts come from. Some dank,
    dark, disgusting, rat infested sewer. :-)
    
    PJ

    Thank you Cindy. :-)
    
    PJ

         Can anyone tell me anything about the book "Ouija, The Dangerous
    Game"? Any info would be helpful.
    
    Thanks 
    
        Drew
    

         
    
                Drew,
                     What did you decide?
    
                          Later,
                           Mark
    
    

         We were unable to use the Ouija on Halloween night. Our friends
    could not find baby-siters  for their kids on that night and my wife
    and I did not wish to "go it alone". We had a site near an old(very
    old) graveyard in a house that should be on a Hollywood set! It was
    dissapointing not to be able to work with the Ouija on that particular
    night so we vowed to do it in the near future. A few of my old college
    friends showed up a couple of weeks ago and were really "gung Ho" so to
    speak. To cut a long story short, it was very intriguing.(sp?)  Im not
    prepared to say what happened that night except to say that my, as
    well as everyones present, heartbeat reached upper subsonic levels.
    It was quite an experience. I now know why my sisters threw theirs
    away. Im not ready to go to that extreme yet, but I thought about it.
    I don't think anything bad/evil happened on a long term level. But the 
    night was something that made you go, "Hmmmm, now why would he/she/it
    say that? Anyway, sorry I didn't write in this file for awhile, like I
    said before, I'm not really ready to talk openly about it yet.
    Thanks
         Drew
    
                                               

    Wow. That was interesting. Kinda reminds me of the day I went somewhere
    to buy something. It was very interesting.
    

    Yup, it had me on the edge of my chair too.

    Jamie.

    Sorry guys, it's just some of the things that were spelled out were
    things that i'm not sure I really wanted to know. The house we were in
    was in itself interesting, the kind of house that makes you feel
    uneasy. If you've ever been in a place that gives you the feeling that
    you know something is wrong, or out of place, that's how we all felt.
    Whether it was because of what we were going to do there or not I don't
    know, but we were really jumpy. Does anyone know if that can effect
    what happens when using a Ouija? Well to me, just exploring an old
    house, especially at night, is fun and interesting. Sorry I cannot add
    more. 
    
    Drew

    Oh how I wish that I has the ability to explain thing as concisely,
    vividly and with such detail as Drew.

    Jamie.

    Re -1
    
    I would think that in an `enlightened' conference such as this suggests
    it is, people wouldn't be so judgemental.  I tire of all the negative
    energy that gets slung around in this conference so I believe I'll step
    out.

<<    <<< Note 8.320 by ICS::ODONNELL "It's hard being string all the time" >>>
<<                  -< How long til I get crucified for this? >-

Hope you'll reconsider and stay.  Yes, there are always some who will 
spout negativities and be downright cruel with their judgements and 
namecalling.  But it would be a shame if they were allowed to drive 
others out, by their lack of understanding and empathy.

Ro

    If you like, I will crucify you for being so judgemental and negative
    yourself.
    
    But I have the decency to stick around and wait for the responses.
    
    						Ann B.

    
    Let's get back to the topic.
    
    Drew, please continue.  I'm interested in what you have to say.
    
    The rest of the comments...well, it was a full moon last night...(;^)
    
    Cindy

    >Drew, please continue.  I'm interested in what you have to say.
    
    Cindy, we would all be interested in what he has to say. So far he has
    written two replies in which he stated absolutely nothing. 

    Jamie.

         I would like to appologize to all those interested parties for the
    in-appropriate responses that I have given. I do not want to talk about
    what happened that night but I felt compelled to note something to all
    of those who were interested. Unfortunatly I did not do a very good job
    at it. At some point I may dictate the night's events but until that
    time I again appologize.
    
    Thanks
        Drew
    

    Hi 
    
    I'm fairly new to notes, and to this conference, I have just spent the 
    last couple of weeks reading all there is to know about Ouji boards.
    
    I have to say, I take my hat off to Drew, although my interest is 
    incredibly high, my fear is very close behind and prevents me from 
    going any further, there is no way, I would have ever put myself into 
    the position that he did.
    
    I guess it must have been something really horrendous for Drew not to 
    want to relive it.
    
    ciao
    
    Chrissie

    re. 8.142
    
    A ghost in the machine I presume?
    
    barry.

A friend and I have been asking a Ouija board some questions about an old
house.  In the course of our encounters with the Ouija board, we've found 
two spirits that "belong" to the house, and they tell us something is hidden
in the house.  

One spirit has already led us to a hidden compartment (nothing was in it)
but the spirits say there is another one.

Unfortunately, we don't understand everything the board is telling us.  It 
makes certain movements that we don't know how to interpret because over
the years the instructions with this board have been lost.

Can anyone answer what the following movements mean:

	1.  There is a Sun near the YES and a Moon near the NO.  To answer
	    some questions, the planchette moves to the Sun.  Sometimes it 
	    cycles from the Sun to the Moon and back.  What do these symbols
	    mean?

	2.  What does it mean when it cycles back/forth from A-N?
	    What does it mean when it cycles back/forth from O-Z?

	3.  Can I assume that if it moves faster and faster (usually 
	    from O-Z) that it's annoyed/angry/etc?

Thanks.

Kath

    re-1
    It's hard to say what the movements mean ; in fact you have to feel
    what it means. If you feel anger/agression it can be agression. In all
    the times I used the bord there where movements unknown to us. When
    there were no other clear messages we found out that we were dealing
    with 'forces of disturbance', just there to play with us. If there were
    clear messages we asked simply what it meaned. Many times the answer
    was trying out or just the kick of communicating with us ( movements to
    the sun !).
    
    ^0^

    Well, I'm really new here, in April 94 no less, but I had an
    interesting experience with the Ouija as a kid too. My sister and I
    "played" with one a few times and got the normal gobbledy-gook mixed in
    with some interesting messages, warnings that came true, etc.
    
    After one particular incident where my sister was warned to beware of a
    pan of water two days before my mother swung around from the stove and
    sprayed my sister with scalding water we decided to try something a
    little different.
    
    We did the night-time bit with the candles and a little twist... a tape
    recorder.  See, I had read abit about what was possibly happening and
    seen a show on tv that had spirit recordings and such so I figured if
    it was possible to have images appear on film it might also be possible
    to have things appear on tape that were inaudible.  During the session
    you could hear our voices asking questions and spelling out the answers
    like you would expect, but what we didn't expect came from before we
    got going.
    
    We started with the basic "is anyone here" (I know, I know, dumb thing
    to do), and asked for some sound or sign that there was actually
    someone (thing) there. We didn't get anything and went on, contacted a
    being and had a normal session.  Afterwards we listened to the tape and
    in that space after asking for a sound (about thirty seconds) there was
    mostly silence until there came a roaring sound. I don't know quite how
    to describe it, not like a train or a lion, maybe like a man with a
    deep voice. It started low and grew quickly, then faded out again, like
    there was a windup and winddown. rrrrRRRROOOOOAAAAAARRRRRRrrrrr.
    
    Nothing else strange on the tape but to this day I can hear that sound
    and get the same prickly hair on the neck.
    
    On a similar note, a couple of years ago I took a class on channeling
    (it was a requirement) and had another experience with a tape recorder.
    I was "channeling" and a partner was asking questions that I had pre-
    written. You could hear her ask the questions, you could hear people
    all throughout the room, but you couldn't hear ONE answer I gave, even
    though she also wrote the answers down. Spooky, eh?
    
                          Steve
                       (not just a new age knucklehead)

    Well you just spooked the h*** out of me... I had a very weird 
    incident with a Ouija board and until this day, I never wanted
    to think about it or talk about it.  But when I was a little
    kid we did the same thing with Ouija boards, just fooling around
    type stuff. Until one day the Ouija board was sitting on top of
    our piano down stairs and I swear to god that thing that moves
    around on the board was moving by itself.  I still get chills
    thinking about it..  and no I haven't lost my mind...and I
    believe your story..
    
    Nancy

    Kath (I believe that's your name from other notes you've written),
    happy to have you here exploring everything!  Hopefully you've read all
    the replies regarding Ouija boards in this note 8.  My own personal
    experience with Ouija boards is, I tried one a few times years ago but
    stopped when a friend whom I respect begged me not to do it any more
    because she believed (via her religion) that it was controlled by the
    devil or satan also; and after reading everyone's experiences in here,
    I have no desire to do so.
    
    	*Stella*

    
    
    I, personally, do not advocate the use of Ouija boards. I also do not
    believe in Satan. But I do believe that when you are using a tool (the
    board) you can easily open yousrelf up to lower entities which can
    cause you great harm. Usually people tend to treat the board as a toy.
    (In my experience anyway) It is not a toy, it is a tool and tools not
    handled safely and properly are dangerous.
    
    There are special ways to dispose of ouija boards. I do not think that
    tossing them into the trash is a good idea either. I have a friend that
    does a cleansing and buring ritual of boards.
    
    Serenity Starbright

    I agree 100% with Serenity. Ouija Boards are not to be fooled with. It
    would take a very strong will indeed to control what entity comes
    through on a Ouija board. One also needs the proper safeguards and
    unless you are trained and have a strong will, you're taking chances.
    
    Bright Blessings,
    
    PJ

    
    I often wonder why you see them stacked to the ceilings in toys-r-us.
    I had one as a kid, and had fun with it ,  we thought it was a fortune
    telling tool, similar to a crystal ball or something !
    
    We would ask questions about the future.
    
    Nothing malicious like demonic posesson or anything ever occured 
    fortunately. {:') I guess we were protected by the light.
    
    If the board itself is merely a means to communicate with the spirit
    world then I wonder why satan and evil seems to be so prevalently 
    associated with them ? Are these evil entities always around ?
    Or perhaps that's exactly what these entities do , which is to prey 
    on the innocent.
    
    I was given a board as a gift about 5 years ago and have yet to 
    really use it. I've tried a couple of times by myself without
    success.
    I have been warned by others to not get involved with it.
    
    I find this pretty interesting due to the fact that most ancient
    as well as non-western cultures believe in evil spirits and their 
    possible influence on our lives. 
    Perhaps there is some truth to this after all and that this evil 
    is exactly what they were referring to. 
    
    
    /todd
    
    
                         

    I have never messed with an Ouija board, my fianc�e has.  When I was at
    college I was warned by a teacher who recounted a particular tale about
    a guy who messed with one of these, turned from an outgoing
    personallity into a recluse, and within a few weeks was found hanged in 
    his room one day.
    
    I'm interested, but it frightens me.  And I will never mess with one. 
    I have been reading a few early replies and .298 onwards and I find all
    the information very interesting, however, I do have a couple of
    questions         
    
    i.	What is a Ouija board and is it made out of anything special?
    
    I look forward to any responses.
    
    Denzil

    
    
    
    Hi again Denzil,
    
    A Ouija Board can be made of anything.
    Its just a flat surface with the letters of the alphabet,
    numbers 0-9 and YES and NO on it.
    Mirrors are favourites with somepeople.  They draw the letters and
    numbers etc on.  Mirrors seem to have a strange connection with the
    paranormal.
    Waddingtons, the board game manufacturer, actually sold it years ago as
    a board game.
    My sisters once did one when they were at school, some 15 years ago.
    They did it in my Grandmothers house with a few of their friends.
    They said it did move all by itself and being in the house by
    themselves it really scared them and they all ran out screaming.
    So they said.
    There was a strange presence in that house though.  My Grandmother, who
    lived alone, said on a few occasions, that she felt a hand on her
    sholder.  On turning round, noone was there.
    She died a few years ago now.  My parents were left the house and were
    re-decorating it to sell it.  One day they took me and my Girlfriend
    down there to see how things were going.  We all went upstairs to have
    a look around and there was a tin plate being used for the decorating
    in some way on a pasting table.  We all went into another room and
    heard this plate fall on the floor.  We all rushed in and it was on the
    floor a couple of feet away from the table.  We were all sure it wasn't
    on the edge of the table before it fell, but maybe it was or maybe...
    Anyway, I have been present when some friends from school tried to do a
    Ouija board.  They had no luck.  Or perhaps they 'were' lucky.
    
    John...