Conference hydra::dejavu

	It sounds like you remembered what you had dreamed as apposed to
dreaming what you remembered.  I have read a tremendous amount on psychic
phenomena and your expeirience is the most common.  Many people have this
happen and it is recognized by an over-powering feeling of familiarity
with something that happens but you know it never happened to you before.
This is the textbook definition of a "DEJAVU".  Many self-proclaimed
experts have their own analysis about this sort of thing.

	One school of thought would proclaim that your dreaming it made it
become physical reality, "psionics".  And others would say you were practicing
precognition, like ESP, you predicted the future.  It seems to be the old
"chicken and the egg" story, what came first.

	Being from the engineering community I could draw an analogy here 
with buffer control.  Perhaps life or reality is arranged and channeled
thru a huge buffer say a month's worth of reality is filling the buffer
before it is output and there are some very special sensitive people out
there that get a chance to review the buffer before it is output and 
therefore predict the future.  From the "psionic" view you would either
change or fill the buffer yourself before it is output and therefore
control reality.  I like to think of the "psionic" view as closer.  Atleast
it would be nicw as far as the "MEGABUCKS" is concerned.

						PREDICTABLY YOURS,
						    JORGE'

How apt that the first note in the "Dejavu" file is on deja vu!  I have had
several experiences that *might* qualify, but I had them all before I heard
of an experimental technique to validate seeming dejavuic experiences: you
keep *two* notebook/diaries.  One you use when you wake up after experiencing
a vivid dream that you feel may be "prophetic."  Another you use when
you think an event you're experiencing is the result of a "prophetic dream."
*DO NOT COMPARE THE NOTEBOOKS FOR A PERIOD OF TIME*, preferably months later.
Then, see how they track.

You may have had some such dreams, maybe you only *thought* you did.  But
the notebooks, at least, are unbiased; they record what you put in 'em.

I wonder if it's coincidence that I've not had a "prophetic" dream since
I heard of the technique.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

As a child, I would occassionally dream of reading a book. Usually within a
week, I would find the book in the library. As I started to read it, I would
realize that I _knew_ everything in that book already. I would have friends
test me by reading random passages from the book. I could always tell them
which side the page it was on, what was happening, what character said it,
that sort of thing.

Now, it's not impossible that I had already seen the book (title at least on the
shelves of the library) since I tended to live in the school library. However, I
always kept a notebook with the list of books I had read. This notebook extended
back several years. I was a real fanatic about this, I never failed to record a
book read.         

Also, in none of the cases where this happened,  had I already taken the
book out of the library previously.

I dunno. You tell me.

Tamzen

My brother-in-law regularly (every 2 or 3 months) has dreams that come true.
He says they are very short and he doesn't remember them the morning after.
But he remembers them when they actually happen. I asked him if it was deja vu,
but he said that deja vu is just a feeling of familiarity with a situation
whereas he remembers a dream with the other.  He refers to them as "markers"
because he feels as if he's where he's supposed to be at the time one occurs.

		Dave

Yes, but it's also possible that his mind is playing tricks.  If he can't
remember that he had a dream intil "it happens," isn't it also possible that
when something happened he *thought* he had a dream about it?

That's why a two-book method is important.  If you can't keep a first book,
(due to lack of memory) you can't systematically study the event, or even
know if it *is* an event.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

Dave Stanley's brother-in-law is correct: Deja vu is a "haunting" sense of
familiarity; usually described as "I feel like this has all happened before"
or "I feel like I have been here before."  There are various plausible
psychological/cognitive explanations for it.  I see no reason to, in general,
associate it with psychic phenomena.  One theory is indeed that it is a
reaction to not consciously remembered dreams, but the dream would not have to
be accurate to have the effect, only coincidentally similar in some minor way.
This is similar to an experience I have had occasionally: sometimes I'll see
an actor in a movie, commercial or whatever and feel like I have seen him/her
before.  Sometimes I figure out who it is, sometimes I never do; but sometimes
I realize that the actor resembles another actor, and this was causing the
feeling.  Of course once in a while the dream that triggers the deja vu
experience might be a vericidal (sp?) precognitive dream, but I suspect that
this is at most an exception rather than the rule.

What was described in 2.0 was what is known as an "ostensible clairvoyant
dream."  Ostensible because, from the description, their is a possibility of
"sensory contamination;" e.g., the pamphlet may have been seen sometime in
the past and consciously forgotten, the program triggering a dream about the
hidden memory.  Alternatively, the subject may have been discussed in Martin
Anderson's presence without him paying any conscious attention (reading,
dozing, conversation too soft or whatever).  Many other explanations are
possible.  One can conclude very little about publicly available information
which appears in dreams.  Clairvoyant because it dealt with information which
exists in the present.

I'll have to do a note sometime soon about parapsychological terminology.
            
		Topher

The most common "scientific" explaination for visual dejavu is that as the
eyes perceive an image, the synapses transmitt at different rates and when
the images reach the brain, one is received micro seconds before the other.
This would cause the "I've seen this before" feeling, since you truly have
seen it before.

Tamzen

	Don't discount the idea that the dream could be a suggestion made
to/thru the subconscious which in turn can force the dream into a reality
base.  The idea of recognizing a scene as if you had dreamed it before could
be rationalized in many ways but I prefer to persue the explanation on a 
psychic plane atleast until I am convinced that this avenue is not valid.

							Jorge'

        A friend who had deja vu type dreams took to describing them to
        me when we were room-mates. Months later one of them started to
        happen. He turned to me, and when he got as far as "This is...",
        I interrupted him with "I know", 'cause *I* recognized it. It
        was very strange. Shared deja vu?

        JimB.

	RE.9:
	Leaky brains ;-), Jim.

	Tamzen

re .8:

> ... but I prefer to persue the explanation on a 
>psychic plane at least until I am convinced that this avenue is not valid.

Nothing wrong with investigating *every* possibility just so long as you
don't exclude the possibility that there are other explanations.  As Dr.
Donald Menzel said in a book on another subject roughly),

"If you see a man lying in the gutter of a street, you miht say, 'He's
drunk,' or 'he's been hurt,' or even 'maybe he's had a heart attack.'
but it's not logical to say, 'Well, I don't know how he got there, but ultil
someone proves otherwise, I'll assume that he dropped from Mars.'"

Investigate, but keep an open mind to alternatives.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

I have feelings of Deja-vu, but they usually make my flight response act up and 
consequently I never stay in the location that makes me feel that way long 
enough to find out what's going to happen.  I've never been brave enough, the 
feeling of doom was so intense. 

anyone else ever feel this kind of D-V?

Well, you seem to be talking situational dejavu rather than locational.
Interesting thing here is that if you "take flight" from whatever is de-
veloping, you'll never know howe it develops....

A sort of Catch 22, I'd say.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

I just found this note's file today, and I felt I had to reply.

For many, many years, I have been experiencing very many of the things
I have been reading in this notes file today.  Mostly "dreams" come true!
I feel very strongly that most people have a "ability" to do "psychic"
activities, but not many, relitively, have bothered to try.

The strangest and longest "dream come true" was about a month ago:
I was eating ice cream with two friends of mine at work on afternoon.
We all were just talking about the day's events, etc.  All of the sudden,
I felt that I knew EXACTLY what was going to happen next.  First, I started
mouthing the words that each one of my friends would say.  And after about
a minute, I took my pad and pencil, and excused my self from the immediate
location.  I went about 30 feet away and started writing down the rest of the
converstion between my two friends.  After about 22 minutes, I could not stand
the waiting and had to show them what I had been doing.

I showed both of them the paper seperately, and for the majority of the 
converstion, each one recalled that I had the words exactly correct.  I then
showed it to both of them together, and for the entire length of the written
converstion, only one of them would recall saying a different word than what
I had written down.

I have also noticed, on unrelated instances, that certain geographical
locations are better for "predicting" the future while I was awake.

A good friend of mine, Debbie, was going on a trip once, and she asked me
to tell her how it was going to be, namely the flying part, because she
was scared to fly.  I thought for a moment and told here that the flight on 
the way there was going to be scarey but not dangerous.  And that the return
flight was going to be flawless.  Upon her return, she told me that I was
exactly correct in my "prediction."

Being a person of scientific nature, I find things that I can not touch,
or know that exist, are hard to beleive.  This is one thing I must 
accept though, becuase I happens to me.

To keep this note from beeing too long, I will write other notes from
other experiences of mine.  I would like to here from anybody that
would like to talk about his/her experience.

		Thanks much
		David McDaniel

	By all means David, continue inputting any stories you have.
I enjoy them.  It's funny how true stories have a flavor wilder than fiction
at times.  Thanks for sharing that last one with us.  I too have had many
experiences like that.  But I usually can't remember them to the detail of
words spoken only having overwhelming familiarity with places and people I
have never met before.
							Jorge'

Just this weekend a dream I had came true. I have been worried about money
problems (who doesn't) but I had a dream about a week ago where my mother
gave me some money. I woke feeling that I had no need to worry about
not having enough money, even if my mother didn't give it to me, something
would happen. I had another dream about three days later that I don't
really remember except again I was told not to worry about it.

This past weekend I went home and my mother had just got her Christmas
Club and decided to help me ouyt by giving me some of it. This was
totally unexpected (except for my dream) and unasked for.

My mother and I have at times been psychically linked so I'm not sure
whether she had been thinking about this and I felt it or whether it
was a precognitive dream.
kris

	This is a great topic and one that I have had alot of experiences
with.  I have 3 categories of experience as follows:

	1) Dreams as prophecy-I frequently have dreams that turn out to
	be reality.  Sometimes the dreams need some analyzing which I 
	got into after reading 'The Interpretation of Dreams' by Freud,
	and other times the dreams 'hit the nail on the head'.  One 
	especially stands out because I kept a record of my dreams every
	morning for about half of a year.  I dreamt a whole series of
	fragmented pieces concerning my father being ill and needing
	hospitalization.  As it turned out, the very next day he WAS
	put into the hospital for a semi-serious illness and many of the
	dream fragments matched arbitrary details and this was a freak out.

	2) Telepathic Communication- This one I experience with close friends
	and family.  This is also a form of the above, I believe, due to
	the nature of the relationship.  It seems that all situations
	that I have concern an intense relationship therefore the strong
	'whatever' that is picked up and transmitted.  In its simplest
	form a good example would be when you answer the phone and it
	is someone that you were just thinking about.  A more complex
	one would be the following which is a true situation;  my brother
	(another close relationship) was 2000 miles from where I am and
	was doing some hefty travelling so we lost touch for about a year.
	I started getting extremely strange sensations that involved
	vivid dreams (later verified), depression and a haunting feeling
	that something was desperately wrong.  There was no way for me to
	contact him and as you can imagine it was a very helpless feeling.
	But a month later he contacted me and told me a distressing
	account of what he had been experiencing the last few months
	and although I really cannot relate to you this personal misfortune,
	it justified the scene that I had been involved in previous to
	our contact.

	3) This last one I don't know what it is called; something
	like DREAM RELOCATION or something.  It occurs usually when
	I am falling asleep and it is like dreaming while you are awake.
	I have read about this and how people have invented things,
	solved formulas (a dream/trance of a snake led a scientist to discover
	a certain carbon chain) and solved personal dilemmas in this 
	awake/dream state.  What is unusual about this is that sometimes
	I can travel (astral? I know this sounds crazy..) and I can see
	very vividly places that I am totally unfamiliar with..The resolution
	of what I am seeing is unlike any dream and I have control over
	direction and I am floating.  There is a strange feeling I get
	of being drained almost to the point of dying and I have to stop
	and I think that is sleep coming over me because all during this 
	I am awake and in a state of trance.  It sucks me in and sometimes
	it is difficult to get out of.  None of the things that I've seen
	are real as far as I know because I've never seen them in real life.
	
	Any Questions or observations??

	Neil

re 17
	For a "return to physical" signal, try moving the fingers of your
	right hand. That should be enough to bring you back.  You might also
	check out the book "Far Journeys" by Robert Monroe to see if there
	are any similarities between his experiences and yours.


  - Bill

		RE:17 I have an experience to share which would fall under
	category 1 of the three listed in reply 17.  This involved a lady
	I knew who had a dream come true.  Her dream was in a setting around 
	her home where she was hanging around outside her house when a big
	black limo pulled out front.  She walked up to it and the window came
	down and her mother was inside (her mom had died quite a while before
	this dream.).  Her mother called her closer and she whispered a four
	digit number into her ear.  The window then closed and the car left.
	The dream ended here.

		The next day she played that number in the Mass daily lottery.
	She hit the number exactly and won over 5 grand.  I must add that she
	was in some financial difficulty at the time and this win was a real
	saving grace for her.

		This dream sparked interest in me toward the psychic.  It 
	involving her mother who she often prayed to for help and the black
	limo symbolic toward the funeral of her mother seemed all to coinci-
	dental.  

							Jorge'

	    [RE .4 & .6]:  I get very strong instances of deja vu.  In
	fact, I've had several occurrences of recursive deja vu, where
	the recollection included a recollection of the recollection,
	and so on, until the effect of *that* hits me, and the recollec-
	tion of the effect.  Needless to say, this hits me like a ton of
	bricks.
	    The "marker" or "haunting feeling" does come at times that
	aren't real examples of deja vu, but I can usually tell the dif-
	ference.  It's the recursive occurrences that really clinched it
	for me.
	    I used to think that my previous experience was in a dream,
	but I think it's just probably because I knew it didn't happen
	in the real world.  Now I'm not sure if they're from dreams or
	not.
			<_Jym_>

    THIS IS A TEST FOR VAX NOTES!

    
    I've had the experience several times in the past few years of
    being in a situation, feeling strongly that i've been there before,
    knowing the dialogue between people before they say it.  (e.g. inside
    my head 'and now Bob will say "x..."' which he does say.)  So far
    pretty 'normal' within the context of this discussion.  But the
    really strange part comes when I become aware of two potential 
    outcomes - a fork, as it were, as to how things could procede. Usually
    it feels as if one outcome is positive and one negative.  More often
    than not the positive course is taken and I have an 'oh good that
    was avoided' feeling.   It takes much longer to type it than for
    it to happen in reality.  Also during the time it occurs I have
    a feeling of being set apart from the situation.   Probably just
    laging synapses; but it sure is weird.
    
    Alison
    
    p.s. - anybody out there get a feeling of 'cosmic relief' when
    Gorbachev took over.  This is so far out on the fringe that it'll
    probably fall off the edge, but when I heard about Gorbachev my
    constant feeling of impending nuclear war/death/destruction went
    away.  As far as media influence being the cause, in this case I
    doubt it, at that time I lived in a bubble as it were.  Anyway,
    just curious if anyone else out there felt the same.
    
    

    re .21
    
    Congratulations!  You passed the test!
    
    re .22:
    
    The idea of reaching a "fork" is consistent with the idea of Free
    Will (to which I personally subscribe, though I know many who rather
    fancy predestination).  If there are no choices, then there's no
    responsibility -- but that's better talked about in NOTES:PHILOSOPHY.
     Most "precognative" experiences/mechanisms I've dealt with are
    more "trend spotters" than "thus it is written" statements.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Back to the topic of dreams-come-true --
    
    Several years ago, my brother had joined a religious cult, and
    subsequently moved out west.  I hadn't heard from him in a long
    time, and one night I had a dream that I was in a crowded hall
    with many people walking in my direction.  In the middle of the
    crowd, I saw my brother, and I remember feeling happy to see him.
    
    About a month later, my mother told me that she had received a
    call from my brother.  He had had a falling out with the group
    with which he was involved, and wanted to come home.  She arranged
    to have airplane tickets sent to him, and he was to fly into
    Logan Airport.
    
    I went to the airport to meet him -- there I stood, at the top
    of the arrivals ramp, watching the many people walking in my direction.
    In the middle of the crowd, I saw my brother....
    
    Yes, I _was_ happy to see him.  (-:
    
    - John
    

    My wife, Linda, had an interesting dream  a few nights ago.  She dreamed
    that her friend Ellen's sister was going  to get divorced.  She thought
    that it was a strange dream because they  had never met.  The next day 
    Linda told Ellen about the dream and she  seemed surprised.  Ellen said 
    that the night before, her sister called  to tell her that their brother
    was getting a divorce.  It's not exactly  a dream coming true, but I
    thought it was a "coincidence".
    
    		Dave

        Uh, Dave, that was just a strange coincidence, right, the way the
        white space lined up?  Then you went back and put in the extra
        space to emphasize it, right? 
        
        Tom

    re: .26
    
    White space?  Your terminal must be in reverse video. Anyway, I
    thought that would wake somebody up. :-)
    
    	Dave

    I seem to have two types of dejavu.  The first is the normal,
    "everyday" type where you see or experience something that you could
    swear you dreamt of before.  I could even swear sometimes that I've
    told someone about the dream, but they're never around to confirm
    it.  This seems to happen in cycles, a lot at one time, and then
    nothing for a period of months.
    
    The second type is where I've actually had a dream that I've told
    several people about, and then it is followed by a terrible feeling,
    heavy, doom-like, you name it... it's BAD!  And then it happens.
    
    The first one I had like this was back in seventh grade.  I was
    nodding off to sleep and saw a man giving an older woman mouth-to-mouth
    resusitation.  I went through all the steps with him, tilt the head
    back, hold the nose, etc.  Then a nurse with dark hair came and
    put a screen in front of it so I couldn't see it anymore.  I thought
    it very strange that she wouldn't let me look, because it was MY
    dream.  Next day... the air was very heavy at school, and I wasn't
    the only one to feel it.  I mentioned to the girl sitting next to
    me "Today doesn't feel right, does it?  Something seems very wrong."
    She nodded in agreement.  JUST THEN our instructor keeled over,
    and started to turn blue (I realize that I'm getting a bit descriptive
    here.  Sorry about that.).  Mr. Strafaci, the art teacher ran over
    when one of the other teachers screamed, and started giving her
    mouth-to-mouth.  I couldn't move; I just stared.  Then the nurse
    (dark hair and all) came and brought the screen.  We were ushered
    out of class into the library where I told the teachers that our
    instructor was dying.  They told me not to think such things and
    that it would be okay.  I didn't believe them, and it wasn't.
    
    The last time I had it was just a few months ago.  The funny thing
    about these things is that they happen to people not close to me
    at all, and it doesn't seem to have a happy ending.  This last one
    seemed more symbolic, though, especially since I didn't see the
    outcome of the event itself.
    
    It happened this past January (probably some of you already know
    what I'm about to say).  My husband was going on a business trip
    to New Mexico.  I had a dream the Thursday before that there was
    this white 1952 (or similar year.. I don't know them too well)
    ambulance (a cadillac with fins, you know the type) that was flying.
    It was going very slowly, or so it seemed, and didn't get too far
    off the ground before it blew into flames.  A woman fell out, and
    although she was deceased, she did not show too much evidence of
    having been burnt.  Then came the feeling of dread the next few
    days.  This time the feeling wouldn't go away, lingering for several
    days, at least until two days after my husband left.  I thought,
    well, maybe I'm feeling guilty because I just bought a puppy that
    he had no idea about (women have strange ways of getting back at
    their husbands when they go off on business trips and leave their
    wives home alone and terribly worried).  Then the announcement came
    at work about the shuttle explosion.  Funny, I didn't feel any more
    dread.  I did feel awful sorry for them, and very helpless.
    
    Perhaps it wasn't really the shuttle that I had seen, but it was
    so like the other experience, and I knew that other experience was
    very real.  Actually, I prefer the ordinary, "everyday" type of
    dejavu.  It's safer.
    
    Dale
    

    Re: .12
    	That is exactally my reaction. On the various occasions where
    I have had deja-vu type experiences my reaction has been to get
    some place else as fast as possible. On those occasions where this
    has not been possible, the results have been uniformely bad.
    							/s/ Terry
    

    I had a very long dream last night about flying in a hot air balloon.
    The dream was very involved and there were several points where
    the balloon started to deflate and drop altitude.  I didn't remember
    the dream right away.  My memory was jogged on my drive to work
    by a hot air balloon hovering over a field about a mile from my
    house.  The last time I saw a hot air balloon (that I remember)
    was about a year ago.  It's not quite a dream coming true, but it did
    strike me as interesting.
    
    		Dave

    I just wrote a reply to 2.3, but it got aborted, so here goes again.
    
    Several times I've been near sleep, but kinda aware, and I'd feel
    like I was reading a book, ie. could see the pages and words.  The
    stories were fascinating, but elusive when I came out of my "near
    sleep".  
    
    I never came across books that jogged those memories, unlike you
    -- it was just imaginings, but lots of fun.  I hope to have some
    more of those "readings" again.
    
    --janice

    Re: .31
    
    Maybe this is your unique version of other people's "Voices in the
    Night", where as they're dropping off to sleep, they hear their
    subconscious muttering to itself.  I can't remember the note's number,
    but its title is VOICES IN THE NIGHT.
    
    Marcia

    
    How about Jules Verne visions ??
    
    any explanation ?
    
    CA @shire

    Re .33:
    
    If you're referring to some of the "predictions" in the various
    Jules Verne books, these are less predictions than speculation.
    If you accept, for instance, that the space-shot in _From the Earth
    to the Moon_ was a "prediction" because the launch took place in
    central Florida (after all, that's where the [real] Cape is...],
    then you have to rationalize that it wasn't on the right coast,
    the technology of the launch was wrong, the mechanics of the launch
    were inaccurate, etc., etc.
    
    Verne (whom I enjoy immensely) was no more nor less a "predictor"
    than many other science-fiction authors.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

George Carlin speaks of a phenomenon he calls "Vuja de", which he 
describes as the eerie feeling that "none of this has happened before".

Anyone ever had an experience like that????

    I call the phenomenon "jamais vu" (jamais is French for "never").
    The times I tend to experience it are when driving tired at night
    and suddenly seeing a formerly familiar locale look totally new
    and strange.  I always have a momentary flash of panic, wondering
    where the heck I've gotten to, convinced I've never been in this
    place before in my entire life.
    
    Marcia

allied to deja vu and jamais vu is presque vu - "almost seen." That feeling
that you're one the verge of figuring things out, that if you could just
peer through the curtain you'd see how everything makes sense. But the
understanding just won't come.

d.

    Funny thing for me... I tend to find certain geographical areas
    either very comfortable and welcoming or very alien and frightening.
     They may actually be very similar in appearance, but be totally
    different in the feeling they give me.  For instance, it's as if
    my mind breathes a sigh of relief when we cross the border into
    Vermont at White River Junction, and the higher we get the stronger
    I feel.  Not too long ago, we were driving around some back roads
    from Charlton, and although it was pretty country, I had this heavy
    feeling of foreboding and depression.  Now although my husband finds
    Vermont very pleasant, and enjoys driving around in the mountains,
    he also found driving around the country near Charlton pleasant
    and could not, for the life of him, understand my discomfort! 
    
    My mother's explanation is related mostly to reincarnation.  She's
    a highly educated woman, with an M.A. and almost finished with her
    PhD., and when this subject is discussed with her, it is hard to
    write it off as superstitious bunk.  So, I guess I give her theories
    some air time because, although Catholic-reared, I don't have the
    arrogance to say that anyone's version of what is is the definitive
    version...so I guess that's my interpretation of geographical deja
    vu...some place you've been before in a previous life, whose energy
    you recognize, even though the buildings and plants and trees may
    be different.
    
    Roxanne

    RE: .36
    
    I have also had the feeling of not knowing where I am, sometimes
    on a road that I have travelled many times.  I have no explanation
    for it, however it is a very frightening experience.

    RE .36 and .39
    
    This type of an incident happened to me some 16 years ago in Junior
    High.  I walked into the Gym during lunch period and was stopped
    cold for about a minute because the place looked totally unfamiliar
    like I had just walked in for the first time.  I was in the 9th
    grade so I had been going to that school for 3 years. After about
    a minute all was normal.  Kind of like temporary amnesia.
    
    Steve

    Has anyone out there ever experienced odd physical symptoms when
    hearing/reading about any strange psychic ocurrences?  I get "goose
    bumps" and a tingling sensation all over and my eyes water to the
    point of tearing.  This happens for the entire time I'm hearing
    about the psychic occurence and for a few seconds afterwards.  It's
    not a scary or uncomfortable feeling it's just odd.  It only seems
    to happen at certain times as well.  I was wondering if it might
    only occur when I'm hearing about a genuine psychic ocurrence as
    opposed to someone "telling stories".  What do you people think???
    
    
    

    The tingling, goose bumps and eyes watering are all signs that
    the balance between the parasympathetic and sympathetic sectors
    of your autonomic nervous system has been disturbed.  Something
    has been "activated".  Something in your mind is trying to tell
    you something, but cannot speak, show you images, or make you
    sense an emotion; it's very primitive.  Watery eyes doesn't
    sound like part of the program for fright.  Perhaps you're
    experiencing some type of empathic reaction?
    
    Pat
    

    	Sometimes, at times similar to those mentioned in .41, I get
    a distinct tingling in my "third eye" (center of my forehead, between
    my eyebrows). At these times, it is very easy for me to get into
    a meditative state. While watching Shirley MacLain's "Out on a Limb"
    part two, this was particularly strong, for example. I did not get
    the watery eyes, though there might have been some "goose bumps".
    
    	Ed

RE: .41

    What you describe *could* be almost anything.  There are other
    possibilities, however, which are much more likely than the recognition
    of the genuinely psychic.

    In loose "generic" (as opposed to specific Freudian, Jungian, etc.)
    psycho- analytic terms --

    The mind contains many pockets of psychological/emotional "energy"
    which have been walled off for one reason or another.  The energy in
    these pockets may be positive (constructive) or negative (destructive).
    Whenever we are exposed to an idea or story or whatever, it triggers a
    sequence of associations.  These associations can trigger other
    associations, and so on.  Sometimes these spreading associations will
    "bump into" one of the pockets of energy before they die out.  When
    this happens some of that energy is released and odd things happen.
    One of the possible results of a small "venting" of one of these
    pockets is just the type of physical response you describe.

    The energy involved may be of many kinds -- including "psychic" energy.
    But it is probably the content and the context of the stories rather
    than there genuineness which is causing your reaction.

				Topher

    Re: .45
    
    Not _total_ victims, I think.  What I've noticed happens to me is
    that I have tended not to find out about the existence of the negative
    pockets (since I've blocked them out of conscious awareness) _until_
    a circumstance triggers them.  In the aftermath, when I start wondering
    "what was _that_ all about?" I find I can become conscious of them,
    and thereby subject them to transformation if I so choose.  For
    me, conscious recognition of some negative feature of my Self is
    important for me to be able to change it.  And it does seem that
    nothing brings a negative feature to my conscious attention than
    an event where I blow it, so to speak.
    
    The people in my life I find most remarkable do not seem to need 
    an event in order to find their own pockets, drain them, and heal
    them.  Part of my study of astrology is made in effort to do this
    --first for myself, now, increasingly, helping others.
    
    Marcia

RE: .45
    
    The purpose of psychoanalysis is to find and release those negative
    pockets of energy.  Its effectiveness is open to question.
    
    Using somewhat different language, the advocates of various systems
    of meditation also claim to be doing this.
    
    The negative pockets cause problems even when not released -- they
    absorb energy and continually leak (hopefully small) levels of poison.
    
    Personally, I doubt if *anything* can be 100% effective in eliminating
    these.  Truly perfect health, physical or mental, is probably
    unobtainable in this reality.  Nothing you can do will guarentee
    that you won't instantly dislike someone because, whether or not
    you are aware of it, they have ears just like that bully in second
    grade, just as nothing you can do can will guarentee that you won't catch
    a cold.
    
    I think that anything which promotes mental/emotional growth/health
    will help to minimize the number and power of these pockets.  You
    must discover for yourself what is right for yourself at the present
    time in your life
    
    					Topher

    I just started reading this notes file and the topic here reminded
    me of two events that happened a few years back.  The first occurred
    one day on my way to a class  - when a car pulled over into my lane
    and hit me head-on.  My car was totalled, and I was able to walk
    away from it.  I called home to my parents to tell them about the
    incident and spoke with my mother.  My father came home from work
    a few hours later.  The first thing he said to my mother was that
    he had had a strange dream the night before that he found very
    disturbing and it had bothered him all day.  All he could remember
    was that someone in the family had been involved in a car accident.
    Her response was "don't worry - she's o.k."
    
    Six months later, as I was driving along 95 in New Jersey, my mother
    told my father that she had a very strange feeling that I should
    never have gone on this trip - that something was going to happen.
    I travelled frequently and this was the first time she ever felt
    uneasy.  Sure enough, right around the time she spoke, I was
    involved in an eight car pile-up - where one car had cut off another
    and sent that car into the dividing wall.  As it was on a corner,
    the rest of us did not realize what had happened until we were
    right on top of the accident and could not stop. (Luckily, just
    a few bruises.)
    
    Strange, eh?
    Kelly
                                               

    I'm glad to see that my growing exeriece of birds-of-a-feather flocking
    together is borne out by dipping into this notesfile for the first
    time today. I'm lso not @ all surprised to find terry McCutchen's
    been in here some while ago, too (15 JUN 86). It's often my own
    experience that it's 'perfectly obvious' (my own favorite phrase
    for describing the commonly perfectly implausible) that things 
    are 'what they are' even though 'what you don't see' is the 
    more compellingly real part. Let's just think of ourselves as
    'sensitive' (which we are) as well as 'positioned' for it.
    Worrying it is a bit like sharpening a wooden pencil into
    a pile of shavings, rather than using it to write. Let's
    make some use of this now we've admitted to it. Time
    to be of use as well as of good cheer. 
    
    -Boleslaw
    

    I know this doesn't have much to do with de javu, but this was
    the only file I could find that discussed dreams.  There's this
    one dream which still bothers me, but I haven't had it in years.
    
    When I was about 6 years old, I started having this dream.  Every
    night I would dream it.  It always took place in the field that
    my family owns.  I would be in this field and someone would start
    "picking" on me, and would want to kill me.  When they would go
    to kill me, they couldn't because of my power.  My power was the
    ability to float up into the air and escape the danger.  I had this
    dream every night for 6 years. (Among various other strange dreams
    ).  Then, one night when I was 12, the dream started again.  However,
    this time, when the person went to kill me, and I floated up into
    the
       air, well, he could do it too.  I guess he killed me.  I never
    had that dream again.  Not even something similar.  I've asked
    psychologists about it.  They say that my floating up was my way
    of expressing invincibility, and I finally was killed because I
    realized that I was helpless in a sense.  This, however, does not
    explain it for me.  There was more to it.  Anyone know the
    answer?
    
    __Sparky__

    Dream interpretation is a tricky thing.  However:
    
    >Then, one night when I was 12, the dream started again.  However,
    >this time, when the person went to kill me, and I floated up into
    >the
    >   air, well, he could do it too.  I guess he killed me.  I never
    >had that dream again.
    
    I doubt he "killed" you or you might not have awakened.  My suspicion
    is that "the person" was a menace  who terrified you, but you couldn't
    figure out just what he would do that would be horrible enough,
    sort of the dream analogy of a "nameless dread," so you wakingly
    think of it as maybe being killed.  I suspect that the symbolism
    of the dream might be more like the saying, "There's no problem
    so big you can't run away from it," with the last dream in the sequence
    being something on the order of, "Running away doesn't always work."
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

RE: .51
    
>    I doubt he "killed" you or you might not have awakened. 

   Steve,
	I don't understand what you mean... Could you explain?

	I've died 3 times (that I can remember!) in dreams.
	Is it unusual to be killed in a dream?

			Robert.	

    Re .52:
    
    >I've died 3 times (that I can remember!) in dreams.
    >	Is it unusual to be killed in a dream? 
    
    Extremely.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
        

RE: .53
    
    Sorry to disgree Steve but my impression is that while for most
    people it is extremely rare to die in their dreams, for a few (*not*
    extremely few) it is not at all uncommon.  I suspect that most people
    have a "filter" which prevents it -- a distinctly unpleasant dream
    I would think -- just as most post-adolescent men seem to have a "filter"
    against dream orgasm.  But some people don't.
    
    The old story about dying "for real" if you die in a dream is just
    that -- a story.
    
    					Topher
    

Re: last few

I've heard of people who have died in their dreams, and people who have
seen themselves dead in a dream. What I've heard about dying for real
while dying in a dream, always had to do with falling a great distance.
I've heard that you generally wake up before you hit the ground. I don't
recall why this is so. It has certainly happened to me and I remember
waking up in a start and sitting up staight, my eyes wide, saying
'whew!'.

Jay

    re: .54
    
    	Actually, as I remember it, not too unpleasant at all! Very
    	dark and very quiet, but not unpleasant.
    
    		Robert.

    Is it really necessary to apologize for disagreeing with an
    individual?  No one is sacred/we are all sacred.  Disagreements
    abound throughout these files, why single out an individual for
    "special" consideration?
      
    Frederick
    

    Re .54:
    
    Okay, Topher: you're quite right; I should have said "for most
    people..."
    
    Re .55:
    
    The version I heard was that before our ancestors were close to
    human they were primarily tree-dwellers.  Those that failed to wake
    up while perched on a tree limb, sleeping, and starting to fall,
    _wouldn't_, ever.  Therefore, waking up while having the sensation
    of falling was a strong survival mechanism and apparently is genetic.
    
    re .57:
    
    Well, I apologize when I disagree with others, too.  It isn't
    necessary, but it's polite.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
       As for dejavu,... As for dejavu,.. Hmmmmmmmm?! Just kidding. Dejavu
    is something that I and just about everyone has experienced first
    hand. The interesting thing about that particular phenomenon,is
    there seems to be several different kinds. One is the common,every
    day spooky feeling of repeating a few minutes of ones life,replete
    with identical surroundings etc. The second kind is dream dejavu,where
    something is happening and you realize you dreamed it in the past. This
    is a very strange type. With me, the funny thing is the dreams I
    had relating to the experience almost always occured many years
    ago,or even decades ago,when I was so young that I didn't even understand
    what the dream meant!  A variation on that,is dreaming of being
    another person,in another place and,usually, in another time. There
    is no theory I can offer on what these things are or how they occur,since
    there are no fixed criteria or instuments IN THIS REALITY to investigate.
    If these events are valid entities in themselves,then obviously,there
    would have to be some other dimension,reality or "Twilight Zone"
    if you'll pardon the expression, that trancends both time and space.
    Even this goes against my reasoning,since I don't believe that time
    exists as a true dimension in it self,but merely an arbitrary measuring
    stick to chronicle the order of events we consider relevent. Yes,I've
    read about relativity,which to me only says that while traveling faster than
    the speed of light, time becomes irrevelent to the traveler. To
    me,this is not really time travel,nor is viewing the past of a distant
    civilization,through a theoretically powerful enough telescope.
    the past. These are mere light images of the past,which to the civilization 
    that generated them are long forgotten.
        
        The last kind of dejavu,of which there are two types, is "false
    dejavu". The first type I discovered when I started a dejavu
    experience,then realized that I HAD been somerwhere before that
    was physically and environmentally the same. A trick!  The other
    type backs up what one noter (an epileptic) said in note "DEJAVUs".
    Neurologically induced dejavu. One time I hadn't eaten all day and
    because of this and certain other conditions,passed out while in
    a standing postion and landed smack on my head,getting a minor 
    concussion. For about two hours after,everything I thought,saw or
    felt was like one continuous dejavu. Very quickly the sensation
    got rather irritating to the point of being sickening,and I was
    very glad when it finally subsided. So ends another one of my
    long-winded dissertations.I hope it provided some insight into that
    strange. By the way,in the past,people kept things like to themselves,
    lest they be burned at the stake!
                                     
                                             Be seeing you!
                                             Ken
    
    P.S. Did I right this before?

    
    
    	re .31
    
    		You said you can 'read' while you are falling asleep,
    but can't remember after what you read. I haven't had this happen
    in a long time, but I used to do it all the time! (except I was
    always asleep or in the process of waking up). I would read pages
    of these fascinating books - in foriegn languages too! I always
    woke up with the sense of regret and disappointment that I could
    not remember what I had just read. I always attributed it to the
    fact that I read about a book a day during the time that these dreams
    occurred, however, I knew that what I was reading in my dreams was
    nothing I had ever seen before. 
    

    This dream was documented....My girlfriend recently had a
    birthday (Sept. 9). Her grandparents on her father's side offered 
    to take her to California for her birthday gift. She showed me a 
    postcard that was dated in July that she never had the chance to
    send out. On the postcard she mentioned a strange dream she had
    where her grandparents had given her a trip to California for her
    birthday!
    
    When her grandfather was explaining the gift to her, I recall
    him stating that they were tired of international travel. They wanted
    to stay in the US. They also wanted someplace reasonably warm. My
    girlfriend had never mentioned the dream to them beforehand. In
    fact, she has still not told them of the dream. I believe that she
    had no influence on their decision at all. I may be wrong, but this
    is extremely strong evidence for prediction in dreams.  

RE: .62
    
    Very good!  Clear documentation of a dream and its date is what
    makes for a good case in parapsychology (idealy, it would have been
    even better if it had been sent and been postmarked, and a complete
    investigation would include how frequently she mentions the contents
    of her dreams in correspondence; but these are relatively minor
    points).
    
    While this *is* without question strong evidence for prediction
    in dreams, it is somewhat weaker as evidence for paranormal prediction
    in dreams.  The reason is that your girlfriend *might* have
    subconsciously made the prediction on the basis of her knowledge
    of her grandparents: how they were likely to act, reading "between
    the lines" on things they said, etc.
    
    Still a good one for someones case files of such things.
    
    					Topher

    re:  .62   .63
    
    You are correct, Topher.  This is a good example.  Further, it is
    a good example of how dificult it is to have an "air tight case".
    It is true that a post mark on the card would enhance the situation,
    but it would also be very desirable if she had no knowledge that
    she had grandparents.  I am not being sarcastic.  The point I am
    getting at is that the sort of situation that would be necessary
    to constitute "proof" is rare.  I guess the situation described
    could be termed "practically proof", but to some, even a thousand
    of these sort of situations would not be as good as one "proof"
    situation.  (sigh)
    
    Marion

    RE: .62
    
    Well, I don't know if she is psychic, but if she was born on Sept.
    9 then she must be special!  ;-)
    
    John M.

    
    howdy'
    i have had dreams about the same thing over the course of several
    years. i had dreamed that i had risen above the ground on my body
    power as if on will at anytime i wanted to. at times it was difficult
    and at times i could do it easy. 
    a year later it would occur again and always in a simular place,
    like above the citys large buildings.
    
    does anyone know how to interppet this type of dream, and what could
    it mean.
    it seemed so real, like i was actually flying--i could feel it
    litterally. thanks''z
    

    RE: .66
    
    When you find out, tell me.  I have this same type of dream.
    
    
    
    John M.

    re: last two
       Me, too.  Sometimes I'm running and "fly" (I used to run track,
    but never like this.)  Sometimes I just leap out of the way and
    levitate, sort of.  When I wake up I get a bit irritated that I
    can't do it "here."
      
       Perhaps it has to do with the desire to soar?  To be unbounded?
    
    
     Frederick
    

    hello'
    iv'v had over some years--dreams about flying without a balloon.
    i would just raise my body up to the sky and take off, just like
    a chopper. i felt safe untill i sometimes started to lose altitude
    fast. "what a scary feeling haveing mother gravity punishing you''
    
    bye''
    

    I have this re-occuring dream where I turn into "JIM" from TAXI
    AAHHH !!.
    Do you think Im going MAD.

    re:.70
    
    No, you're not mad - but in your next incarnation you'll
    be a mad scientist who invents a time machine.
    
    Trust me.
    
    --DE
    

    No, it was in his *last* incarnation that he invented the time machine.
    That was in the future, and is how he got into this mess in the first
    place! 
    
    	Chris

    Sort of returning to the subject:
    
    A few days ago, my wife told me about a strange dream she had. 
    She dreamed that a young boy had fallen underwater, and that she
    dived in to rescue him (she once took a lifesaving/swimming course).
    She kept trying, and "took a long time," but she never rescued him.
    However, before she woke up, sahe "knew" that everything would
    be okay with the boy (i.e., that he would be rescued).
    
    She told me the story.
    
    Later, we both heard on television news about a boy who fell through
    thin ice and was under water for an extended period.  He was finally
    reescued, unconscious, and was taken to a local hospital where he
    was tended.  The details aren't an exact correlation, but are amazingly
    close.
    
    My wife has shown flashes of precognition before.
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    I have had many dreams which have "come true" and also experience
    *VERY* strong feelings of dejavu quite often. There is one dream
    which stands out in my mind. 
    
    I had the dream when I was quite young, maybe 7 or 8 years old and
    living in Cleveland, Ohio. My family moved to Mass. when I was a
    freshman in high school and I was in college when I actually 
    experienced the situation that I had dreamed. I was working as 
    a waitress in a Chinese restaurant, among other places, and had 
    been given the job of serving a private party in a separate room, 
    off the main dining room. Before this time, I had never been 
    in this room for any reason.
    
    All of a sudden, I *knew* what the room looked like, how all the
    furniture was set up, etc. As I started waiting on these people,
    I found that I *knew* where each person would sit, what each would
    order to drink, etc. As the evening wore on, this continued. After
    the party left, I was cleaning up the room with a guy who worked
    there and I knew what he would say each time he spoke - before he
    said anything. I was really spooked. 
    
    I could write this off as 'coincidence' or whatever, except this
    kind of thing happens to me all the time. (strong feelings of dejavu,
    both because I have "dreamed it before" and sometimes just because.)
    I have gotten somewhat more used to the feeling, that is, it doesn't
    spook me anymore and I sometimes even find it kind of fun.
    
    I also have dreams about someone I haven't heard from in a long
    time, only to have them call the next day. 
    
    Sometimes, it also seems that my dreams serve as a sort of an emotional
    clearinghouse. Recently a friend did something that made me *so*
    mad and hurt, but I couldn't tell him about it. For a few weeks,
    everytime I thought of him, I got mad all over again. Then one night,
    I had a very vivid dream in which I told him off, in a big way!
    I noticed that after that day, whenever I think of him, I am no
    longer so mad and hurt that I can hardly see straight. And I think
    that maybe I'll even (someday) be able to tell him about this and
    get our friendship back on the right course. 
    
    The point I am trying to make (I think) is that I think dreams are
    very important, even if we do not remember them. Definitely not
    a "waste of 1/3 of our lives" as someone stated earlier.
    
    				-Amy.
    
    (sorry this is kind of rambling....)
      
     

    re: .74 (Amy)
    
    	Don't apologize!  This whole conference is a series of
    	ramblings!!!  Your experience is very interesting, and
    	I agree that our dreams have a cleansing effect on our
    	conscious self.  On the same subject of you telling your
    	friend off for hurting you, I've had dreams that I'm so
    	mad at someone I'll slap them about 50 times.  When I 
    	wake up I'm soooooo happy it was just a dream and so 
    	relieved I'm really not mad at them!  (I'm not a violent 
    	person, so don't know where this comes from.)
    
    					Carla
    

I have had a couple of dreams that have come true, and many more that
    haven't, so when I have a dream about something...I don't sit around
    and wait for it to happen.  My strangest dream come true and by
    far the scariest, was about the Challenger accident.  The night
    before it happened, I had a dream about the sudden and bizarre death
    of Krista MacOuluffe(sorry for the spelling), the New Hampshire
    school teacher.  In my dream, the spacecraft exploded in mid air.
    It really shook me up, and in the morning, I told my roommate about
    it.  At about noon time, I got back from classes and turned on the
    tv.  It was the eeriest experience of my life to watch the news
    broadcasts.  My roommate came running back to the dorm as soon as
    she heard and we both kind of laid around white as sheets and spooked
    out all night.  WEIRD STUFF.
    
    Kristen
    

    About the apparitions...
    If you read "OUR LADY OF MADAJORIE" (found in most religious stores,
    and some book stores)  you can learn more about the apparitions.
    There is also a journalist from Virginia who, not being religious,
    traveled to Madajorie to get a story, and is now publishing a small
    news paper monthly about these children and what they see.  He will
    send them to anyone free of charge anywhere in the country.  If
    you would like his name and where to send I would be happy to get
    it for anyone.

    My dreams don't come true. However, my roommate dreams do very often.
    Two years ago she had a dream of driving her car on a back road
    and the car hit a tree.  A couple of days after her son was in a
    car with a friend driving on a back road and they hit a tree head
    on.  Fortunately, neither boy was hurt badly.  
    
    She will also dream of family deaths.  She will dream of a funeral
    and coffins but cannot see the faces.  She will generally dream
    this same dream three nights in a row. She lost a grandmother and
    a uncle after these dreams.
    
    Denise 
    

    
    
    My wife has dreams like that also.She also gets certain feelings
    that tells her something is going to happen.
     
    Before she met me,she use to have a dream about a man coming into
    the house,to her bedroom door,then she would wake up.In the dream
    he had the key to the house.When she met me she recognized the man
    in the dream,Me!
      
    Just recently she told me that someone in the family was going to
    be sick within the next two weeks.A few days later her mother had
    a stroke,and is now recovering.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    I am happy to have found this note - This is my first reply -
    hope it is not too long! 
    
    I would like to share a couple of my experiences regarding dreams
    and the future.
    
    I always remember having predictive dreams - I have discovered that
    in "regular" dreams I recognize people but never have a sharp view
    of their faces - In predictive dreams, the features are sharp and
    clear, even though I may not have seen them before.  Here are two
    I recorded:
    
    About two years before my oldest daughter was born, I had a dream
    with clarity so that I was aware that I needed to record it.  The
    scene was simple - I walked into my living room and a (approx) two
    year old "boy" in a blue and white shirt raised "his" hands to me
    to be picked up - The child had white/blond hair and an oval
    birthmark on "his" left leg.  I told my husband of the dream and
    wrote it down.  Four years later, I walked into my livingroom to
    check on my daughter - her hands were raised in the same position
    as my dream.  My daughter was born with an oval birthmark on her
    left leg and her hair was white/blond - she had very little hair
    and looked like a boy at that age.  Small example, but interesting.
    
    The second is a little different - I was about two months pregnant
    - All night I had this dream - a chinese man dressed in traditional
    black pants/top and hat with long pigtail was pushing out of the
    closet telling me he was going to get my baby - There was a crib
    on the other side of the room.  I pushed him back into the closet
    a number of times - Finally he got by me and went to the crib
    As he picked up and held the baby (which was now a doll) he cried
    I have your baby.  At that point, I woke up and found I was hemor-
    rhaging.  On the way to the hospital, I told the story to my husband
    and told him we would not be able to save the baby.  I knew when
    the chinese man had taken the baby that it was too late.  6 hours
    later after great effort by my doctors, I was told the baby was
    lost.
    
    I have many more - many more types - if you want more, let me know.
    
    Thanks for the ear
    sk
    

    Re.-1
    
    Please continue!  There is an example of this in "Bridge Too Far",
    by Richard Bach, so you're not alone.
    
    Cindy

    
    
    Cindy,
    
    Did you mean to refer to "Bridge Across Forever" by Richard Bach?
    
    C.
    

re: .80

	We're all here to learn and we do that by sharing.  By all means,
	continue!

	The second dream was very interesting and it seems that there is 
	no question that your dream was telling you something about what
	was going on in your body.  Maybe you should explore it a bit
	more.  Why was the man in the closet, and why was he Chinese,
	why did the infant transform into a doll?  These things may indicate 
	some influence in your life that may have been partly responsible 
	for the loss.  You could try dialoging with the man.   Ask him why 
	he was there and why did he want your baby - then play his role 
	and answer the questions as ideas 'pop' into mind.  Pretty effective 
	way of getting to the meaning.  

	Terry

    Yes, Carole, it is "Bridge Across Forever".  Thanks for the correction.
    
    Cindy

   Hi,
    
    This file is really interesting and I think its my turn to get 
    in on it.   Does anyone have any input about someone dreaming about
    you.  There are two people that I work with that dreamed that I 
    was getting married (I'm not married).  One person had it twice 
    and the other person, about a month later, also had a similar dream.  
    I never talked about getting married to either in fact I never talk 
    about my social life to the person that dreamt about it twice.
    
    It just seems a little wierd that two people that aren't 
    close to me would dream about me.  What do you think? 
    
    Sandie
    
    

    re: .85
      
         It really isn't that strange if one believes in psychic
    energy.  Apparently, in any case, you must have put out very
    strong energy of some type that was picked up on consciously
    or subconsciously and then dreamed about later.
    
    Frederick
    

    re: .85

	One approach to characters in dreams is that they represent
	aspects of ourselves.  If in these dreams this is the case,
	then both indivuduals used you as a symbol of some part of
	themselves.  This doesn't rule out that people in dreams can
	be taken literaly, sometimes this is the case.  However, for me, 
	people ususlly represent some part of me that I subconsciously
	project onto particular individuals in waking life.

	Terry

    re: .85
    
    I think you're going to get married... probably within a year or
    so.  Aren't dreams great?_:-)
       
    Mary

re: .85

	You may want to take these as precognotive dreams rather lightly or
	you may find yourself self-fullfilling the prophecy - and that's
	not the most optimum way to start a marriage.

	Terry

    As a new reader of this conference, I find the replies fascinating...
    I've had several psychic phenonema, usually related to a close
    relative (relating my father's death to a friend when the
    accident was 500 miles away and not told to me for 24 hours,
    wife's similar distress during a period when her father had died,
    unknown to her, etc). 
    
    My interest is in quantifying and documenting such occurrences
    so that we can apply modern scientific methods to their study.
    Has anyone in the conference done any reading on the subject
    and have any suggestions on literature?
    
    Beau
    

RE: .90 (Beau)
    
    Are you interested in the scientific literature studying such
    "spontaneous" cases or in laboratory evidence for the existence
    of precognition?  In either case, if you give me some idea of
    your background (for example, very technical vs very untechnical)
    I can probably suggest some reading.
    
    				Topher

    (RE. 2.38)                                                                                              
     The item about feeling uneasy in certian areas struck a chord with
    me.In the summer of 1972,there was a flood in Corning,N.Y.,and surr-
    ounding areas along the Susquehanna(sp.) river.My parent's families
    came from Corning,and were then living largely in the area flooded.
     After the waters receeded,our family drove down to help rebuild,
    move,console, etc.I was staying with my aunt and uncle in an area
    called Big Flats,which was heavily damaged.Floods were not uncommon
    there,as you can imagine by the name,and many people had no insurance,
    and lost everything.Consequently,there were hundreds of abandoned
    houses,entire neighborhoods,waiting for the bulldozers to come.
      This situation led me to the unique experence of being able to
    walk down deserted streets,and into any house or building of my
    choice.After a short while, it occured to me that each house felt 
    very,VERY different-that's the only way I could describe it.Some
    houses still felt inviting and "homelike"-others were very unsettling
    and I could not stay long in them.But the point is this- each house
    seemed to have a strong,lingering "feeling"about them,a kind of 
    memory of it's occupant's lives.I realize this is all so much un-
    scientific conjecture, but it's my two cents. 
                                   -Lost & Profound

    Ok here goes...
     Last sat afternoon I was lying in my bed just resting I Was AWAKE
     but did close my eyes and when I closed my eyes I saw scenes (like
     watching a movie negitive) flash before my eye lids, A lot of cars
      a tow truck police ect diffenetly an accident scene and I opened
      my eyes to get rid of the thoughts and images and when I closed
     my eyes again the images would re-appear it was disturbing because
    they were so real. Well I decided to go for a ride and gets down
    to rt20 in marlboro by lake williams (the oxford restraunt) and
    all of a sudden theres cars every which way on road tow truck was
    there police were just getting there there was quit an accident
    it sent shivers up and down my spine it was the exact same thing
    I saw not 25 min before!
                               Bill- 

    I read these notes and kinda shudder.
    
    My mother, whenever she had dreams of snakes, would tell us that
    someone in the family is going to pass away soon.  I never had 
    any such dreams until I passed the 30 year mark.  When I did have
    a dream of snakes I'd call mother and she would mention the fact
    that she had one also. Lo and behold, within a couple of weeks
    someone in the family would pass on.  But it wouldn't happen with
    every passing.
    
    The bond between my wife and her mother is so strong that they know
    instantly when the other is in need of help.  Quite a few years
    ago her mother was out in the garden picking vegetables for sale
    in local markets when she stood up and looked at her husband and
    said "Mary's in trouble".  Ran to the car, drove to the house and
    indeed, she was. I wont go into that.
    
    Fred

    This dream happened many years ago. One of our cats had not been seen
    around the house and I commented to my wife, "I wonder where Spot is, 
    I haven't seen him for some time". We figured he was just out tom-cat'n
    as he had done in the past. If he didn't show up by tomorrow (Sunday), 
    I was going to go looking for him.
    
    That night, actually early Sunday morning, I had a very strange dream.
    The dream started out with a montage of rapidly changing images, so
    rapid and short were the scenes that I couldn't discern what they were.
    The effect was like watching a movie made up of many different short
    film pieces running through a projector at high speed. The scenes would
    change just as you were beginning to make out what they were.
    
    Suddenly, the speeding montage stopped and I found myself standing in
    the living room of our house in "normal time". I walked to the front
    door, opened it, and went out onto the front porch. Lying on his side
    in the grass, next to the edge of the concrete porch, was Spot. He
    raised his head and looked at me with a great sadness in his eyes.
    
    I awoke shortly after this and told my wife of the dream. The dream had
    such a strange quality and lucidness to it that I immediately went out
    to our front porch to "see if Spot was there". I felt sure that he
    would be there, but alas, he wasn't. I was disappointed. Disappointed
    that Spot hadn't come home and disappointed that my dream hadn't come
    true.
    
    Later that morning, I was working in our garage when I heard my wife
    calling me from our back patio. We had a regular size door leading to
    the back patio which I used. My wife was standing at the far end of the
    concrete patio looking down at something. When I reached her, I looked
    down and saw Spot lying on his side in the grass next to the edge of
    the patio. The position of Spot's body relative to the edge of the
    concrete and my position of perspective were identical to that of the
    dream's. Only this time Spot didn't turn his head and look up at me, he
    was dead.
    
    My analysis of the dream and the events that followed is this:
    
    Since our two children had played in the back yard most of the day on
    Saturday and would of seen Spot had he been there, he must have gotten
    there sometime Saturday night or early Sunday morning.
    
    There were no visible signs of injury to Spot's body. More than likely
    he succumb to "cat fever" which we found out later was going around. He
    probably was ill for some time and had isolated himself among some old
    lumber that was stacked along the side of the house off from the back
    yard. It's not unusual for animals to crawl off into some dark little
    corner when they're sick.
    
    Spot and I were very close. We had many cats and everybody had their
    favorite. Spot was mine and I was his. He was the only cat we had that
    never meowed. He would open his mouth to do so, but nothing ever came
    out. Yet, we both somehow were able to communicate with each other. With
    a look, with a thought, with the spirit.
    
    I feel the dream was precognitive and telepathic in nature.
    
    Precognitive in that the discovery of his body correlated with that of
    the dream, i.e. walking through a door, angle of perception while
    looking down at Spot, position of body relative to edge of concrete.
    The only difference being the back yard instead of the front yard and
    the garage back door instead of the front door of house.
    
    And finally, I strongly believe the dream to have been telepathic. My
    bed was less than 30 feet from Spot's body. He must have crawled there
    with the last remaining strenght in him. He could go no further. He
    laid there weak and exhausted...dying. The moment arrives. Death can
    wait no longer. And at that moment he raises his head one more time to
    look into the eyes of his friend. And with sadness says, good-by.
    
    Jack Walsh 
    
    

    
    	This reminds me of an incident my great-aunt told me of - she
    	was asleep, when she (thinks she) woke up an looked to the
    	end of her bed. Standing there was an old friend of hers.	
    	He said to her, `I just came to say goodbye', and turned 
    	and walked away. At this point, she looked at her bedside
    	clock, it was 2 AM. In the morning, this friend's wife 
    	called my aunt and said, `I just wanted to let you know 
    	that [her friend] passed away last night at 2 AM'. Did he,
    	like Spot, say goodbye in the only way possible to him at
    	that time?? 
    
    	Sherry
    

re-.1
This happened to me a few years ago. My grandfather was visiting from 
kansas city and while at our home died of a heart attack. I had just hung up the 
phone from calling the (no 911 then) fire department when it rang the person
on the other end was my aunt in Kansas City. She said " is grandpa alright? 
I just had a dream where he told me he was leaving and to take care of mother
(my grandmother)"! I then told her what was going on at that very instant
900 miles away and she knew he had died before anyone could be told.
More interesting still is he knew he was going to die( I think) because
he went to the bedroom where my mother and grandmother were told them he loved
them both then dropped dead.

-j

    HI,
    	I Just found this note and have been reading wondering whether to 
    respond or where. On July 3rd 3 years ago a very close friend of mine
    was murdered. It was in the papers and I never got to see her and
    hadn't seen her for about 6 yrs. We had gone seperate ways. On July 3rd
    of this year at 4 in the morning Janie was in my house in my kitchen
    talking to my husband when I came in she turned around and said hi I'm
    ok and we both hugged and kissed each other. I woke up crying. Janie
    and I hadn't seen each other in 6 years, she didn't know my husband
    and had never been in my house. But everything was exact. As I write
    this now I'm crying as it was so real. I think Janie came to say good
    bye. there is more to explain as her and I were in terrible situations
    I left mine but she stayed. Janie left a husband and a now 21 yr. old 
    daughter. She was killed by a neighbor/tenant who was after his wife he
    actually killed them both. I remember Janie talking to me and saying it
    was all a mistake, everything is alright and I miss you so much.  And I
    told her I missed her too and that is when we hugged and cried and I
    woke up and felt she was still there.Thank you for listening and if 
    anyone has any thoughts on this I'd appreciate it. As it was and still
    is very unsettling.

re.-1

	Your reply touch my heart.   How wonderful, that Janie came
        to visit.

	Bless you both,

	Meredith

    re:99
    Thank you Meredith,
    	I like to think that she came to say good bye also
    as I said I never got to say good bye to her either. 
    I don't even know where the grave is. 
    	We were friends for 11 yrs. but when I broke
    away I choose to leave my old life behind which is why
    I lost contact with her. I always felt she deserved better.
    Her husband and daughter were good to her, but circumstances
    around them were not. 
    Well thank you again. 
    
    Carole

	Your very welcome, Carole.   It reminded of my Dad appearing
in one of my dreams a short time after he died.   I didn't get to say
'good-bye' to him either.  We were out shopping and he had a heart attack
in a men's store while I was in another store.  But anyway, he came to
me in a dream; he was in the woods  in a log-cabin, I went in and he
was there by an warm fireplace.  He held me lovingly. I never thought
of it as a 'good-bye' thou, just a visit...;')

	take care,

	Meredith

    Hi Meredith,
    	I'm sorry I have not replied before this. That is a nice thought
    in re.2.101. I hope Janie comes for another visit. Thanks for the
    thought.
    
    	Carole

    I haven't been in this file in a couple of months but I'm back at least
    as a read mostly. I just would like some interpretation on the
    following dream if possible. Several weeks ago, at least 8, I had a
    strange dream. Actually all I can remember is a mish-mash of images,
    which probably means several dreams bunched up together in my mind. The
    one image that stands out is me undergoing a surgical procedure on my
    abdomen. I don't remember what for or how it turned out. I didn't
    remember anything until that morning when I stepped out of the shower
    and while drying off I noticed a long narrow veticle band on my
    stomach. The only reason I noticed and the only thing different from
    the rest of my skin was that the hair was missing as if shaved off. It
    wasn't all over my stomach like it would be if I had had actual
    surgery. It was about 5 inches long and 1.5 inches wide narrowing at
    both ends. It's on my right if that means anything. I'm not missing any
    organs that I know of and have never undergone any surgery beyond a
    couple of tooth extractions and some stitches on my right hand. The
    hair is finally starting to grow back and it should disappear soon. 
    I'm sorry to be so long winded about it but it's just really weird to
    have happen after dreaming about an operation and I'm at my wit's end
    to explain it. No one else knows about it and I haven't taken my shirt
    off in public this summer. 
    
    Any ideas, gang.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Phil

    The possabilities that occur to me are as follows:

    1) The hair was lost previously (e.g., the day before) in some
    conventional or unconventional way but you did not notice
    *consciously*.  The dream was an "alternative explanation" for what
    occured which you did not consciously understand the inspiration for
    until you found "mark".  (Variation: though it seems startlingly
    obvious to you now that you've noticed it, you did pay any attention
    to it until your dream "drew your attention" to it).

    2) The hair was lost by some process while you slept and this process
    gave sense impressions which were insufficient to wake you up but
    sufficient to produce dreams of being operated on.  The rationalization
    for the sensations provided by the dream may have been what allowed
    you to sleep through it.

    3) Occured previously but not noticed.  The dream was a response by
    your subconscious to a precognative awareness of your upcoming shock
    at finding the mark -- an attempt to "soften the blow" by providing
    a "rational explanation" for the mark.

    4) As you said in your title -- a stigma.  Your dream resulted in,
    by mechanisms which are unknown but well documented, the loss of the
    hair.

    For the first three alternatives, what caused the hair to be lost? I
    don't know, perhaps friction, pressure resulting in surface blood
    starvation, something pinching, or some sort of chemical.  All seem
    a bit far-fetched, so I would vote for the 4th.  We *know* the body
    is capable of this.

    If it is any help I have had similar experiences with much less
    mysterious "marks": small abrasions or irritations.

					Topher

    Thank you Topher. I was wondering and a little bit disturb by this. I
    just couldn't figure it out. You've given me some choices and maybe I
    can determine what happened. Maybe not but with a narrower limit, I
    won't think about it so much. I'd hate to think "little elves" snuck
    into my room one night and removed a specific section of my stomach
    hair. :-)
    
    Thank you again,
    
    Phil

	You were obviously picked up and dissected by a UFO.
	You won't remember it except in dreams.  B^)

	I agree that stigmata can do that.

    Ken, I thought about the UFO scenario. The only problem with that is I
    believe in UFO's and have been looking in the skies for one for years.
    This being the case and from what I've heard and read about them, I'll
    never see one. I hear they never go after people who are not looking
    for them.
    
    Phil who doesn't want to start a rathole. :-)

     Steve, (and others), this is my first reply to dejavu so have
    patience.
     I think perhaps there is a "valid or scientific" explanation for many
     of the Dejavu experiences, however, one that has always baffled me
     is the infatuation with the past! Things like old houses, towns, art-
     ifacts etc. Do I and others feel a strong link with these objects due
     to the simple fact they are just different, old, etc, or is there a
     true memory-link to them.
    
       I know when I visit certain places I "feel" more comfortable and re-
     laxed then others, and most of the time they are old towns etc or with
     certain people that "look" or appear to be old though they are young!
     This all may sound a bit absurd, but I truely do think most of our
     so called "Modern" art and so on is unattractive (at least to me),
     and our "new world" is cold and forbidding when compared to the 
     structures built with grace and class in the past.
    
       Hope someone can "straighten me out" on this one and help me to
     appreciate this clinicly white, plastic, cement world we have created
     for ourseleves...I am both of the eng. and philosophy community!
    
                                       Respectfully Yours;
    
                                       Lewis.     

    Hi!  I've heard of this file before, finally am reading it, and am
    encouraged to relate several similar experiences (thanks, folks).
    
    On places and things giving off a "feel", I notice this often. 
    Sometimes, I can get information that might confirm the feeling (good
    in a happy home, discomfort in an unhappy one).  Even people give off
    these same feelings to me (I once worked for a man that I just did NOT
    want to touch.  Shaking his hand made me feel slimey.  Later, as I got
    to know him, I learned he really was a slimeball).  Places are
    different.  There was one apartment I lived in where I had a dream that
    the first tenant, a young girl on her own for the first time, was
    murdered.  I know where the guy hid while she came in, and where the
    violence took place.  I never tried to confirm this, but it was all so
    real.
    
    I have also had experiences with knowledge of the death of a family
    member.  One morning at work, (I just happened to note the time, 10:05)
    I felt a kind of headache, then the impression that someone needed
    reassurance.  I "sent" the reassurance, but was confused about why it
    happened.  The next night, my sister calls and says that Pop pop died
    the day before at @10AM.  To me, it means he reached for help, and
    found me.  He didn't want to die alone (without a family member
    nearby).
    
    I have had two other grandparents die, but they died in their sleep, as
    opposed to Pop pop (he died coming out of anesthesia).  But with both
    of these grand parents (husband and wife, wife died @10 years before
    the husband), I feel they visited me after they were buried.  I saw my
    grandmother is a dream, urging me to look to some relatives for
    guidance, and I felt grandpa "give" me something 3 days after he was
    buried.
    
    
    As for the usual deja vu, I have experienced the common type ("I've
    dreamt about this"), but its unreliable, and only accurate for a short
    stretch of events (less than a minute).  Like someone else commented,
    they seem more like markers.  The sensation is more common (although
    the dreams occurred months or years ago) during times of change in my
    life - freshman year of college, marriage, moves, new friends.  When
    the sensation occurs, I start looking for something to happen or
    change.
    
    
    Beth

    Beth,
    
    Interesting to read about your experiences. I've never actually
    predicted, if that is the word, the deaths of relatives, but this is
    something strange that happened to me - 
    
    My much-loved Bull terrier had died about a year ago, and I missed him
    like anything. For a few months, I had a massive lump on my right hand
    which was very painful, but I was too scared to go to the doctor. One
    night I dreamt my dog was by my bed licking my hand and making the lump
    not hurt. On waking the next morning, the lump had completely vanished,
    and has never recurred......
    
    I have a few strange dreams that seem to come true, the best two were:
    
    1) An FA cup final (I'm English) where i dreamt the final score and who
    had scored the goals. I was ten at the time
    
    2) The Epsom Derby in 1987 - Two nights before ( I didn't even know the
    Derby was going to be run ) I dreamt about a green horse whose name was
    "Khaki". When a friend asked me if I was going to bet on the Derby, I
    glanced through the paper and saw a horse called "Kahyasi." The jockey
    was wearing green silks. I bet, the horse won.
    
    By the way, I often sit watching a big horse race and tell my boyfriend
    which horses are going to come in first, second and third, it comes
    true about 9 times out of ten. I know this sounds very useful, but as I
    never "see" until the Commentator shouts "They're off!" it's too late
    to go to the Bookmaker! Oh well........
    
    ANGELA

    SO DID MA WET ONE ?
    

    This is my first time in this file and I've sat here and read all 111
    notes here!  Anyway, I'll keep this short as possible.
    
    My family and I support our local Ice Hockey team, the 4 of us go once
    a week, to support them.  It was during the journey there that I
    realised that somethng was going to happen, I just said "Someone close
    is going on th ice tonight"  It happened to be a close friend of the
    family who had the chance to win a car if they got the puck in a
    hole on a piece of board.  As I had told all my family they recognised
    it immediatley.  I had not dreamed this though.  Another time the same
    thing happened but I said "One of us is going to win some money"  As it
    happened I won �150 that night on a raffle ticket!  Real wiered!!
    
    I've also found lost items in the house that I've never seen!!  
    
    Any ideas??
    
    
    Karen

    I've just found this conference and read all the replies to this.
    
    Does anyone know if Sandie Williams in .85 got married? I tried to VMS
    mail her as a long shot but no luck!
    
    Interested,
    
    
    Greg

    This is my first entry to this conference.
    
    I am here in Tokyo - Japan. A couple of days ago I received a phone
    call from my mother who is in India. She called me at 0300 hours
    (Indian Standard Time). She woke up from a bad dream and gave me a call
    immediately. Apparently for three consecutive days she had dreams that I 
    am in great trouble. Even though I insisted, she wouldn't reveal the 
    dangers to me. She sounded very worried and it took me a lot of time to 
    calm her down.
    
    I have been reading this notes conference. So, I felt it would be a
    good idea to record this incident. (Un)fortunately if something bad
    really happens to me, I shall key in a reply. 
    
    Let us wait and see.
    
    TVS 

    re: .114 (TVS)
    
         Why not take a more positive approach?  That is, why not come
    back in a few days and say "See!  I knew my mother's dream wouldn't
    be real for me.  Here I am all healthy and wonderful."
         What you said is almost baiting some bad event.  IN other words,
    what you are doing is setting out to PROVE your mother right.  Don't
    make your mother right!  Make her wrong!  Show that you are more
    powerful than that.  Don't wait for bad karma or bad realities.
    Determine that you will have good karma and good realities---then
    do it.
    
    Frederick
    

                               
    Hi TVS,
    
    Welcome!  Thanks for sharing that.
    
    Sending you love and light, and the hope that you experience the best
    possible outcome of whatever may happen.
    
    Please do keep us informed.
    
    Cindy

    Re. 115 (Fredrick)
    
    I am not trying to PROVE anything. I am plain curious. I felt it was
    important to record such incidents. Yes, in my subconcious mind I am
    trying to disprove it - I think. I found myself being more careful 
    while crossing roads, or walking down the stairs....  
    
    I have a doubt. I have noticed in a number of other replies - the time
    interval between a dream and its occurance varies from a few minutes
    to several years. So, how long is long enough before one decides that the
    dream hasn't come true ? Quite tricky - isn't it ?
    
    Re. 116 (Cindy)
    
    Thanks for your good wishes. I am hale and hearty and enjoying my life
    in Japan :-) . Tell me if I am mistaken - Haven't you been exploring
    around in India notes file too ? :-)
    
    TVS
    

    It could also indicate that a change in what you eat directly before
    you go to bed is called for.

    Jamie.

    re: .118 (Cliff)
    
         Do you really *know* you create your own reality?  If so,
    then you would also know that there are two ways of accomplishing
    that.  One way is by making it happen...the other, less obvious
    way, is by allowing it.  Allowing our reality, by the way, is the
    most common in the reality of which I am a part.  What TVS is doing
    is "trying" to create (consciously, willfully) his reality.  But
    by turning his "power" over to whomever (his mother in this case)
    he's *allowing* his reality.  
         Allowing a reality is possibly fine for the enlightened, etc., because
    for them it could be looping back from conscious towards Higher conscious.
    (Higher Conscious-->Unconscious-->Sub-conscious-->CONSCIOUS-->sub-
    conscious-->unconscious-->Higher Conscious.)  That is, the CONSCIOUS
    mind has taken responsibility/"control" for reality and has turned it
    over (consciously) to the sub-conscious, (etc.)   For the rest of us,
    however, we are still functioning from a standpoint of unconscious/sub-
    conscious oozing out all over our consciousness.  We are still *allowing* 
    our reality.  We have not yet reached consious reality creation.  We
    have not yet reached consciousness. 
        From this understanding, based on the wording, etc., then I would
    say that TVS is coming from the "allowing" position, as are you.  
    Three days of dreams must manifest?  Why?  Whose dreams are they?
    These dreams of negativity are his mother's dreams, not his.  They
    are projections of his mother's unconscious/sub-conscious mind.
    To the extent that he speaks with his mother is to the extent that
    he is getting feedback from his reality, which we all do.  However,
    the question now is, "What do I do?"  
        No one says, "IGnore the train."  The statement would be more
    appropriately answered by saying "I see a train; I will avoid being
    hurt by it.  Then, at my soonest opportunity, I will sit down and
    analyze and process and do self-therapy or whatever it takes to find 
    out WHY I put that train there.  Where in my sub-conscious or where
    in my un-conscious [most likely] did that train come from and what
    steps can I now take to de-rail any future trains?"  And then,
    doing it!
         Once determined and resolved, there will be no more frantic
    mothers running into your reality screaming about impending doom
    and gloom, based on whatever illusions.
         Ignore it?  No.  Take responsibility to understand it and to
    defuse it.  
    
    Frederick
    

    
    Re.117,
    
    TVS,
    
    Yes, that's me.  (;^)
    
    Cindy

    Here are the delvelopments since yesterday.
    
    Last evening my manager called me and told me that I have to return
    back to India by this month end. There are certain business strategic
    reasons behind this decision. I am basically on an assignment to Japan
    from India and was expected to stay here till June'93.
    
    It is no secret that my savings when abroad are much higher than my
    savings during my stay in India. This sudden change in plans for me to
    go back to India has sure upset all my planning. This isn't an easy
    situation for me to be in. However, I am a person who strongly believes
    that every crisis brings along with it an opportunity. I am sure to
    turn this situation to my advantage. 
    
    Comments ?
    
    TVS 
    
      

    re: .122
    
    
                 TVS,
                    I think you have a good attitude. Positive thoughts
    bring positive results.
    
                               Later,
                                Mark
    
    
    
    Ps. I saw a bumper sticker once that said "When life hands you a
    lemon.... Make lemonaide.

    Hi,
    
    	I don't really know for sure whether my experience could fall under
    	the same category, this particular note is alluring to. But then
    	all the same here I go...
    
    		Recently in Bombay there was a terrible accident, in which
    	40 women got mowed down by a local train in a local train station. 
    	Just a few days back I had this nightmare where I am in a railway
    	station where an accident has occurred and I witness it. I can
        still recall that dream with graphic detail. The train has mowed
        down a dozen people and I see detached limbs and mangled corpses
    	around. It was a horrible dream. I woke up with a heavy headache,
        sweating profusely.
    
    
    		The next day I spent a lot of time analysing my dream. I 
    	had the following explanation:
    
    	* As a kid I was witness to a train accident where an oldman was
    	  mowed down by a train annd I never could forget it. There was a
          huge crowd gathered around the scene of accident. I had one glimpse
    	  and turned away. Eversince I was scared of crowded trains, trains
    	  and crowds in general.
    
    	* I figured that the dream reflected some prominent fears and 
    	  insecurities in my subconsious.
    
    
      Also previously I have had dreams of being about to be mowed down by
      trains...
    
    	I wonder whether the las t dream I had was a premonition.
    
    Muck...

    Hi,
    
    When I was three months old I predicted the moon landing, the Americans
    bottling it in Viet Nam, Bhopal, The exploding Space Shuttle, A senile
    American President (or two), Charles and Di's marriage etc. etc.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Yes I know, about as believable as any other reply in this note.
    
    Charley.
    

    This a reply to 2.12.......D.V. is just that...it's not intended to
    last long, for some it does......but the longer it lasts the more you
    are throwing your imagination into it. I get it almost every other day
    and I love it. Very interesting indeed.

    	Replying to 2.17........You have experienced...an
    Out-of-body-experience. Lovely if you can control it further, and
    control where you go and who you can see and hear.

    Oh dear.....
    
    
    CHARLEY