Conference 7.286::sports_90

    Pay to see sports on t.v. via pay-per-view?  I haven't to this day paid
    to see a PPV sport event and I won't!
    
    C'mon, isn't paying when you go to the event enough?
    

   Sounds like somebody had a good idea. An organization dedicated to the
   fan is long overdue.

   Pay per view -

   	Never have - don't intend to start now.
   	I suppose all fans aren't like me, but I'll bet enough are to make
   this a poor idea on the part of the owners. They start charging to
   watch from home, and I'll just end up playing more and watching less.
   Scrooom. I'm rapidly getting to the point that I'm easily fed up with
   the whining, prima donna, greedy, millionaire criminals that seem to be
   comprising a larger and larger percentage of the professional sports
   population. 
   Did I say scroom?
   Oh.
   Well.... scroomagin!

   Mike JN

    Sounds interesting.  Of course, the $10 kicker there at the end makes
    me raise a suspicious eyebrow.
    
    An issue that hasn't been raised, however ...   This is a free market
    economy, for the most part.   Sports fans are allowed to spend their
    leisure dollars wherever and whenever they want to.  Nobody put a gun
    to my head to made me go see twenty years worth of Eagles games.  I
    went because I felt it was money well spent.  I went with some friends
    last weekend to see the Redskins play the Falcons in Chapel Hill.  I
    couldn't give a rat's butt about either of those teams.  Hell, I showed
    'em all what real Philly fans are like.  I booed *both* teams.  Why did
    I go then ???  Because this game was promoted by the group that wants
    to bring an NFL team to Charlotte and I *want* an NFL team in
    Charlotte.   I am going to miss going to NFL games during the fall now
    that I've moved from Philly.
    
    American sports fans have proven time and time again that they are
    willing to tolerate the questionable actions of the providers of
    sporting entertainment.   We have endured bitter baseball and football
    labor disputes all the while complaining and promising that we would
    forsake the powers-that-be forever and then we've returned like sheep
    to the slaughter each time.
    
    We may feel restricted, deprived, hurt, angry, depressed, and ready to
    fight back if the NFL goes to a pay-per-view distribution channel.  
    But what we cannot feel is "forced" to watch the games.   The NFL is
    not "forcing" anyone to watch. They are thinking about restricting the
    choices but thay are not forcing you or anyone to spend the money to
    participate.
    
    Do I want the NFL to go PPV ???   Hell, no.   Will I watch NFL PPV
    games ???   Honestly, probably yes but definitely not as much as
    over-the-air games.  I would probably pay for the Eagles games and
    some of the playoffs including the Super Bowl.  I would say "good-bye"
    to Monday Night Football (if no Eagles) and I would say "ta-ta" to
    Sunday double-headers.   And I wouldn't watch a single pre-season game
    even if the Eagles were playing.
    
    If you want to join this association, that's fine.   It may help.  I
    believe, however, that the NFL listens only to numbers.   If they go
    PPV and the viewer numbers plummet, they'll go back to over-the-air so
    fast you won't believe it.    Your viewing habits are your *real*
    voice.
    
    Bob Hunt

I read somewhere that the NFL is exploring some type
of PPV programming.  You would still get your local
teams, but would also have the option of paying to 
get teams from different locations.  I don't know how
that would impact double headers (eliminate them?).

Mike

    Haven't heard a thing, but I can certainly see it coming. 
    
    John

	As Mike said, I believe the NFL is exploring the possibility of
offering a pay-per-view service for fans who prefer an alternative to
what's on free TV that Sunday.  This is probably why the NFL wants to
scramble their transmissions.  Because right now you can go to any bar
with a dish (at least you can at the Graffiti) and see any game you want.
So why would anyone pay a fee for something they can see for free?  But
if these bars couldn't pick up the transmission, your only alternative
would be PPV, providing you really wish to watch a game not offered locally.

	The only thing that might hold back the NFL from going exclusively
PPV, especially the playoffs and Super Bowl, is Congress.  More than one
senator trying to get an NFL franchise has at one time or another uttered
the word "monopoly" when complaining about the NFL.  If public opinion was
strongly against PPV the Congress might decide to invistigate the NFL's
monopolistic practices, thereby "discouraging" the NFL from going PPV.
But I've never heard of a Congressman or Senator who can't be bought, so
you never say never.

				/Don

      I never thought of the PPV thing as the inertia for the NFL
      scrambling though it makes a lot of sense.  One thing I thought
      of is local advertizements.  Obviously the TV revenue that goes
      to the NFL is a function of the advertizement revenue that goes
      to the networks.  Well, how do the local advertizers feel about
      nonlocal viewing of the same network?
    
      Probably not all that favorably.
    
      As far as this fan thing goes.  It sounds good to me.  It would
      take a lot of the chaos out of being a fan.  If there was a more
      collective voice, the voice would be better heard and thus perhaps
      more possibly favorably responded to.
    
      I have to admit...I'd love to see the Packers out here in MA.
    
                                                  Tony

    >and T's geographic wizadry
    
    Why thanky, Dan'l.  While I normally don't like to flex my muscular
    geographic expertise around at the expense of others (Bob Hunt being
    the only exception), *this* little piece of NFL news in today's paper
    offended my geosensibilities from Patagonia all the way over to the Upper
    Volta!
    
    
    		GEOGRAPHY NOT HOGE'S AREA OF EXPERTISE
    
    "Someone, please, get Pittsburgh Steelers fullback Merril Hoge a map!
    
    Two weeks before training camp opened, Hoge was scheduled to go to 
    Montreal with some teammates to promote the Steelers' preseason game
    there.  When he arrived at the airport without a driver's license or
    any other identification, he was advised not to make the trip because
    Canadian officials wouldn't let him into their country without it.
    
    Country?
    
    'I didn't know Canada was outside of the U.S.,' Hoge said.
    
    'Then, I started thinking and said, I guess when we have a war,
    everybody heads up there, so I guess it isn't part of the U.S.'
    
    Good thinking."
    
    MrT

   I can readily believe that the NFL would go to a scrambled signal, a la
   HBO, for regular games, then go PPV for `specials'... ie. Playoffs,
   Superbowl. There was a time in my life when I wouldn't have dreamed of
   missing a Heavyweight Championship fight. Wanna guess how many I've seen
   since they went pay per view? Ayup...Zero. Now I don't even watch
   fights that are free. They screwed around and my interest first waned,
   then disappeared.

   I wonder if it would be Congress that would prevent them...or a
   realistic look at what could be marginal profit increases, balanced
   against MASSIVE fan dissatisfaction.

   Mike JN

    I just read in Sunday's paper that the networks are having trouble
    selling ads for this year's NFL season, which could spell trouble
    down the road.
    
    					Steve

    BOHICA
    
        Bend over, here it come again!

    OK, here's my opinion.
    
    When I read the mailing, at first I was glad that a group was being
    formed and that someone cared enough to take initiative.  Then suddenly
    I reflected on the Matt Sewell discussions in which I didn't
    participate but for the most part disagreed with T's (et. al)
    responses.
    
    But suddenly, a similar situation came at me from a personal angle and
    I said to myself, "Self, if you are a big enough sports fan that you will
    donate money to save your viewing pleasurs while the Japanese are out
    there slaughtering thousands of dolphins, whales, and sea lions, or
    while there is devestation in the rain forests, or while the AIDS
    epidemic continues, etc., you've crossed the line into sports obsession."
    
    That obsession, to me, is unhealthy.  There are times now that I feel
    "unhealthy" sitting inside on a beautiful Sunday Carolina afternoon 
    watching two teams I don't give a hoot about.  Yet I tend to do it more
    often than not.  To pay and do that or belong to a club that will help
    me further this "strange" behavior would be a total abomination of my
    own priorities.
    
    This is not meant as a commentary on anyone but myself.  This letter has
    opened my eyes, however, and made me think a lot about myself.  I'll
    still love sports, but perhaps I'll love them with a contained passion
    from here on in.  
    
    Greenpeace, get ready for some $$$.
    
    	--dan'l

    
    
    	P.F.V. ?
    
    	As long as they take off the commercials!  Do some interesting
    stuff, like keep a live mik on the coach! and on the players!  If I got
    to pay for it, I want to hear ALL of it!
    
    B.A.

   I think the comment on difficulty of selling network time is
   interesting. Awhile back when we were discussing the super high
   baseball salaries (obtainable due to advertising dollars) I questioned
   how owners expected to meet those salaries when advertising revenues
   declined. 

   They'd have been better off to institute a profit sharing type plan,
   tied to a fair salary structure, rather than mortgage their futures
   based on a (potentially) non-renewing source of income. 

   I think all of these high draft choices holding out is just another
   sign of how ridiculous things have gotten (anyone who has never picked
   up a football in the NFL is not really worth 1 - 3 million dollars a
   year. Just look at how valuable Brian Bosworth turned out to be). 

   In most circumstances, I'm not a pessimist, but regarding professional
   sports, I feel that the owners and players (sure kid, I'll sell you my
   autograph for $30) have lost sight of who is REALLY paying for their
   extravagant lifestyles. We Are! Whether at the gate or through
   advertising dollars reflected in the price of the goods we purchase.

   Once upon a time, a true sports star might have made 30,000 or 40,000
   dollars more than the average fan who lined up at the gate. Today it is
   MILLIONS more, and there is no more common ground. The only thing left
   even partially in common is the game. The fan's love of it, and the
   players' disdain for it (play hurt? take batting practice? sign
   autographs? get outta here, man! I'm too important!). Admittedly, this
   doesn't blanket all players, but it covers enough to make that
   description very much the ususal state of affairs.

   I predict it's going to come back and bite `em in the butt.

   Mike JN

    The sporting fans are the ones who ultimately pay the price for
    everything.  If the networks do charge ppv for each event, the
    chance of tickets going up in price to make-up for the lost revenue
    in viewing is increased.
    

    I hate to admit it, but I agree with B.A. I probably wouldn't watch
    much of it if any and if I did happen to watch it I would want to hear
    everything that was said even in the locker rooms at halftime.
    Everybody wants more money and if they can get it, they will....
    No matter what they have to do.
                                                 M.J. 

>
>   In most circumstances, I'm not a pessimist, but regarding professional
>   sports, I feel that the owners and players (sure kid, I'll sell you my
>   autograph for $30) have lost sight of who is REALLY paying for their
>   extravagant lifestyles. 

	Lets but the blame on the whole absurd autograph situation on the
people who caused it, the collectors.  They've turned what was once something
people got to save and remeber their heros by into an item to be bought and
sold for profit.  

	Anyone read the recent article in SI on the autograph craze?  very 
interesting article that shows how out of hand the whole scene has become.

Mc

RE: .19

	Ok, I probably used the wrong term.  I have no problem with people 
who collect autographs and memoriblia.  It's the people who have turned it into
a business that I don't like.  They have ruined it for the kids.

mc

Interesting tidbit on this autograph think I saw on the sportswire this
morning. RJ Reynolds and Barry Bonds of Pittsburg have been fined 1500
bucks by the team because they skipped an autograph session that the 
team setup for charity. RJ says it's against his nature to charge kids
for autographs so he couldn't do it. Double edge sword for me I can see
his point, but I can also see managment's given that the money was headed
for charity....

mike

I collect autographs occasionally.

I have a varied bunch of autographs, and some neat memories to go with
them.  I got Arlo Guthrie's autograph one evening after a show in
Pennsylvania.  Got to go on the bus with him, and have a beer with
him while he signed autographs for me, my girlfriend and my brother.
Made me feel most welcome, and wasn't in a rush for me to leave the bus.

I've also had incidents where I've met sports players in situations where
I haven't wanted to ask for an autograph.  Met Gordie Howe several times,
one of which was in McDonald's in Glastonbury after a game.  He was
very pleasant and most talkative, and I think to ask for his autograph
definitely would have spoiled the moment.  I have a nice memory of 
a conversation with one of hockey's legends.


On the other side of that coin you have the speculators.  I'd never 
consider selling any autographs that I have...they mean too much to me.
But I guess some folks see it as big business.   That's too bad
because it does spoil it in a way for those of us who just collect....

'Saw

    RE Mike Corbett,
    
    That was a good article in Sports Illustrated.   Collecting is
    something else.   My nephew is 11, so this past birthday I sent
    him a bunch of baseball cards - cards I have triples of from 1966-1970.
    I've never bothered to check if any are worth anything or not. 
    
    I knew something was up when he called me to say thanks.   I guess
     I sent him a Reggie Jackson and a Nolan Ryan and a Tom Seaver rookie
    card.  He was foaming, spouting out worth regarding relative condition,
    and all this crap.  I didnt' knwo what the heck he was talking about.
    
    I told him "Hey Brian, don't go using them for flipping..."  Long
    pause - "What's flipping, Uncle John...."    When I told him he
    said he couldn't believe it.  Why flip away investment.  The kid
    is 11 and talks long term investment.  Sheeet.  A long term investment
    for me when I was 11 was saving my paper route money to buy a new
    bat.   
    
    Re:  Mike Childs - agree with you on the double sword, but I kind
    of cheer RJ for standing up to his convictions.  So few do these
    days...
    
    JD
    

    re .22
    
    Saw, did you ever get Kelly's autograph ?
    
    Doc
    
    p.s. You're a (DECworld) wimp !!!!!

Doc 

>>  Saw, did you ever get Kelly's autograph ?
    
No, I never did.  I'd love to meet her someday.  Probably the
most interesting person I ever met was the jazz drummer Buddy Rich.
I shared an almost empty shuttle with him and his band (well, that was
it, me, him, and 5 members of his band) on the way out to our flight
at the Munich airport.  Buddy was really personable, even though he
was ripping mad at some promoter that stiffed him out of some money.

Again, not a situation where I'd have wanted to spoil it by asking
for an autograph.

    
>>    p.s. You're a (DECworld) wimp !!!!!


With all the stuff I had going at the time, I couldn't afford to take
the time.  I'm sorry I missed it.

Actually I was there in a way.  That PI was running a smooth as a sled
on snow (or so I was told) and the DAS that's doing it was my baby...8^)

C/NOOPT ya later 8^)

'Saw

Rj should tell them he'll pay the fine if they give it to the charity. Seems
to be the best compromise for all involved.

mc