Conference 7.286::sports_90

	Actually the real reason that I started this note is that I 
	couldn't keep this in any longer.  My 6 year old boy swam in his 
	first-ever swim meet last night, and he made me real proud!

	Anyway, he swam 2 events, the only events for the 6-and-under age 
	group.  Normally, he'd only swim backstroke, his specialty :-), 
	but he also swam freestyle since there was an open lane.  He 
	finished 4th in the freestyle, an arm's length from taking 3rd.  
	In the backstroke, he took 1st!  He almost blew it though.  He 
	starts out and takes a commanding lead.  Then, about halfway, he 
	curved into the lane line and stopped dead, allowing the rest to 
	catch up and even take a lead.  Realizing this, he made an awesome 
	dash for the wall, and won by an arm's length.  The crowd was 
	going wild!  I was going nuts!  What a comeback!  I'm still 
	buzzing over it!
	
	Unfortunately, my 9 year old girl is over in Hungary visiting my 
	relatives, so she won't be competing this summer.  However, I 
	know she would've done very well also.  She was practicing with 
	the team up until the day she left, and she raced in an 
	inter-team "mock" meet, placing 1st in breaststroke in her 
	10-and-under age group.  She also swam the breaststroke in the 
	18-and-under 200 yd. medley, placing 2nd!
	
	Hey, who knows, maybe I have Olympics material in my genes after 
	all!
	
	H�wk

I don't know much about competitive swimming.  I run.  

It's really funny though, because while running has tremndously increased
my endurance, I've found that I can't swim worth a damn.

Those competitive swimmers that go out there and swim beaucoup thousands
of yards in practice, to me, are amazing.

Personally, I'd rather run...


Congrats, Hawk, on your kids.  I guess they got your wife's genes
afterall 8^) 8^) 8^)

Seriously, that's something to be wicked proud of!

'SAw

    Hawk -
    
    Welcome to the wild, wacky world of being parent to a developing
    athlete.  It carries with it a unique set of joys (and ulcers).
    
    Congrats to your son on his achievement.  May he take great joy in the
    doing, and respect his opponents - win or lose.
    
    A&W

    This is my both of my kids' 1st year in competitve swimming, so it's
    very new to them.  They had no idea what to expect the 1st day for
    practice, which last 1 & 1/2 hours every morning, Monday thru Friday.
    My daughter's 1st day, she swam 73 laps (25 yds./lap)!
    
    I'm not a runner, but I'll tell ya, swimming laps ain't no joke either! 
    After hearing about the 73 laps she swam in practice, I felt compelled
    to do some myself.  I forced myself to do 36 over the course of a whole
    day- 6 here, 10 there, another 8 here, etc.  I couldn't swim for a
    whole week after that!  The day after she did the 73 laps, my daughter 
    pounded out 88 more!  I'm just amazed at her strength and endurance,
    and it's not just her, it's all the other kids on the team!  I swim
    laps now at least 3 times a week, not much, maybe a total of 24/day.  I
    have noticed a big difference in how I feel.  Makes drinking beers that
    much more rewarding!  :-)
    
    In the case of my son, being 6 years old, they don't put these younger
    kids through all of that.  He has practice for only a half-hour a day,
    3 days a week.  He'll be in the big leagues nexted year though!
    
    H�wk

    Thanks, Alison!  And yes, he has been taught, and knows, to respect his
    opponents.  I made sure of that a long time ago!
    
    Funny, as I replayed his race a million times in my head this 
    morning, I thought of the "Celebration" note in here.  Steven got
    out of the water, not sure if he'd won, and thinking that he probably
    didn't.  And here we all are whooping it up, congratulating him,
    telling him that he indeed won, and he's taking it like he did it
    hundreds of times before!  After a few high fives and scalp massages
    :-), and finally cracking a few smiles, he runs off to the playground
    to join his friends!  Gonna have to teach him to enjoy it a little
    more!  :-)  I must admit, the instant he touched the wall, I was
    yelling "alright!" so loud, that I had to leave for a minute cause I
    was making a scene!
    
    H�wk

Hawk --

I know swimming laps is TOUGH.  I'd rather run 5 miles than swim
five laps!

Hawk, at least your sun didn't get outta the pool and pull down his
trunks to clean the water out of them (a la STeve Lyons).

Again, Congrats!!!!  No flies on your son!!!! They AR NO TOO BLAM!!!!

'Saw

My little sister swam in one of those leagues for the Kids. I called her every 
sissy name in the book till she challenged me to a 50M race. I got blown out 
of the water. Then she said she'd swim the Breast stroke against me in a 100M
and I could swim any stroke I wanted. You cain guess that I was sucking wind 
and she laughed all day 

Well she is still a Sissy and throws a softball like a girl, but I won't say 
nothing  about swimming. 

    what size titles? and whats her age  jeff?
    
    :))
    

    Have you shaved the kid's head yet, Hawk?  You can either do that or
    buy a couple sandpaper pillows.  HTH.  Steve

    HAHA!!  Haven't thought of shaving his head.  But that's probably why
    I'm breakin' water so effortlessly!  HAHA!!
    
    And, sandpaper pillows?  Is this something that me and wifey should
    have in our bedroom for when the (full moon) mood strikes us?  :-)
    
    H�wk

< Note 297.13 by SASE::SZABO "Breeder of Olympic Champions!" >
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Stud Szabo... I kinda like the sounds of that!

    
    

    It's great to hear that your kids have taken well to swimming.   It's a
    great sport to get introduced to at an early age.  When I was about 9
    or 10, I was in a similar program and I remember there were some pretty
    tough and very long practices in the mornings.
    
    Last winter, instead of running or using a rowing machine for my
    cardio-vascular workout, I decided to head over to the pool and do it
    there.  Even though I hadn't gone swimming in years.  Hell, I was in
    shape, right.  Holy sh*t, I thought I was going to die after about 10
    laps.  I was  barely able to do my scheduled "light" workout.  I can go
    out and run pretty good distances, but I'll have to agree with the
    other replies, that swimming is a whole different ball game.  I too
    have a hard time seeing myself ever doing the kind of distance your
    kids are doing now(or anytime soon at least). Congrats on their
    success, too.
    
    Tom

>    < Note 297.16 by FSHQA1::JHENDRY "John Hendry, DTN 292-2170" >
>                    -< Swimming is not a Sport for Sissies >-

    Ninj, clearly you're confusing swimming with Scantily Clad Young
    Nubile Judging.
    
    Mark.

No, swimming is clearly a very manly sport.

There's a new song by Clarence Carter that's making the rounds
of the clubs down here.. It goes like this...

	"I'm strokin' to the east, and I'm strokin' to the west,
	and I'm strokin' to the woman, that I love the best,
	yeah, I'm strokin'..."

Now, if that isn't a song about the manliness of competitive
swimming, I don't know what is!

'Saw

    > ....... clearly you're confusing swimming with Scantily Clad Young
    > Nubile Judging.
    
    Heck no!  Why do you think I spent my entire 2 & 1/2 week vacation at
    the swim club, from 9am to 7pm, every single day?  So that just my kids
    can have fun?
    
    Of course, there were many a moment when a barf bag was needed for
    those scantily clad mommies who never returned to pre-baby-making
    shape.......  :-)
    
    H�wk, who kept an eye open for youngsters coming out of the water.....

 Congrats BOC. You should join your kids. I for one much prefer to swim
 than run to keep in shape. Basically I start slowly like swimming 1/4
 miles evey day for a week, than 1/2 miles the next week and by the
 third week I find I can swim a mile without a problem. It's certainly 
 less strainful and damaging to your legs. I've never swam competitively
 but have been itching too. I'm going to wait a few years until I can
 swim with the seniors where I might have a chance ;^)....

 mike

Boy Mike, my hat is off to you.  I doubt I could even think about
doing 1/4 mile!   

You are right about less strain on the joints, though....

Somewhere I read that running and swimming use mutually exclusive
muscle groups.  Any of you physiologists out there care to comment?


'Saw

    Thaks for starting this note, H�wk.  I wanted to start one when I first
    entered the conference but figured, "who besides me would want to talk
    swimming."
    
    If your kids are serious here is the life of a swimmer (at least
    according to me):
    
    Age 6-12 - The weeding out period
    
    Even some of the best "kid" swimmers get burned out by over-zealous
    coaches and parents.  The poor ones will give up.  The best thing to do
    is get them involved in a good AAU or Y program that has a good coach,
    even if you have to drive out of your way.  
    
    Don't worry about the lack of celebration.  If he takes defeat as
    mildly as he took the celbration, he's going to do just great.  Believe
    me, there will be many defeats down the line.  A good coach will be one
    that can convince your kids that at this age, a personal best is a
    victory, not a winning race.
    
    Ages 13-17 - The high school influence
    
    A lot of good swimmers that were on my AAU team just vanished once they
    got to high school.  The reason was all the other high school things to
    do such as other sports, the opposite sex, homework, etc.  It is a good
    test of your kids' multi-tasking abilities.  
    
    Being kind of bookish and introverted during my high school days, I
    never fell for the temptations of blowing off practices for a date or
    to go to MacDonalds after school.  
    
    Toward the end of my high school swimming career, after 8 years in the
    water, I started to burn out.  Swimming was becoming nothing more than
    work.  I'd get up for the 5 AM workout, look in the mirror, and just
    ask "Why?"  A lot of other guys on the team were the same.  Then toward
    the end of your junior year you start getting contacts from colleges
    wanting to give you free rides if you're good enough.  POOF!  Instant
    answer to the above question.
    
    Ages 18-22 - The college days
    
    Simply put, if you're on a college swim team, you eat, sleep, and drink
    swimming.  Only the best can handle it.  I saw high school state champs
    bag it after the freshman year just cause they couldn't take the heat.
    
    And through all this, H�wk, be prepared to spend much time, engergy,
    money, and gasoline to get the kids where THEY want to be.  I can
    remember before I got my drivers license my dad would drive to and from
    two practices a day.  That plus the $400 per year AAU fees and meet
    fees really didn't make much sense to him, but it was what I wanted to
    do.  Once I got the scholarship to Ohio U, it all made sense to him and
    was retrospectively worthwhile.
    
    Sorry for the soapbox here, but you don't swim for 12 years of your
    life and not develop some sort of passion.
    
    	--dan'l

    Saw, you may admire those who can swim lap after lap.  Being one
    of those lappers, I can't see how you others can run like you do.
    I suppose it's whatever tickles your filberts though as once you
    get into the stroke of things, you start to get that buzz and feel
    like you could go on forever.  I have tried running time after time
    but just can't deal with it.  Even living in Hawaii and running in
    the most beautiful surroundings and nicest runs you could imagine
    just couldn't keep me going.  Now put me in the ocean to swim along
    a 2-mile beach, we're talking strokin to da max bra!  So my hat's
    off to you runners and even more so to you manly triathaloners, now
    that masochism at it's best.
    
    Shaka,
    Bret

Well, Bret, I wish I was a runner extraordinaire like JD, or 
some of those triathalon guys.

Right now I'm just a_overweight, 31 year old who feels this crazy
urge to go out at noon on a hot day like today and hear my footsteps
on hot ashpalt. 8^)   But about 10 years ago I managed to run a five
minute mile, so that's my goal...to get back that last 10 years
I pissed away drinking all that beer ;^)

Man, the thought of swimming *2 MILES* makes my filberts want to fall off!


AND HAWKSTER, MY OLYMPIC CHAMPION BREEDING FRIEND:

	Always remember the immortal words of Bill Cosby.

	You have a son.  You raise him.  You teach him how to
	play football.  You toughen him up.  You take him to
	high school football practice, you watch his games.
	You still throw the ball around with him, even though he's
	gotten so big he could knock you on your butt.

	He goes to college.  You go to all his games, proud that
	he's your son.  

	Finally, in his senior year, last game, national TV audience
	he breaks loose on an 80 yard touchdown run that puts his
	team ahead late in the game.  As the camera pans to him
	on the sideline, he raises his index finger, looks directly
	into the lens, and says "Hi Mom".....


'Saw

    Great note, dan'l!  Thanks!
    
    At this point, I really can't tell if swimming is *the* sport for my
    kids, and I know that they don't know either.  Both are very
    multi-sporting, especially my 9 year old daughter, although she appears
    to have taken a liking to it since she's done so well at it as far as
    lessons go, not competitively (yet).  Like I said earlier, it's a shame
    that she's gone for the summer (I miss her a lot already!) and won't
    get a taste for competition.  But, in the fall, she wants to get
    involved in the local Y swim team, which is highly regarded.  The kids
    at our swim club, the serious ones anyway, belong on the Y swim team
    throughout the fall, winter, and spring.  And then the real, real
    serious ones get on the high school team, again, perenially (sp?) a
    very strong and highly regarded team.  These high schoolers also swim
    at the club, and they are just amazing.  I'm waiting for the final
    score of the meet on wednesday, but I know we just blew the other team
    away........
    
    Anyway, this is just another phase of introducing yet another sport for
    my kids, to let them determine for themselves what their interests and
    strengths are.  Swimming has been a big interest to both for many years
    now.  
    
    And 'Saw, thanks for the Cosby excerp.  I've heard that before, and
    he's right.  It'll be mom who gets all the glory on tv.  But, I'm
    working on a gimick for the '96 Olympics.  They'll be spotting me in
    the crowd and saying, "and there's that wild man again, Julie Szabo's
    dad, looks like he's having a great time!"  :-)
    
    H�wk

Hawk, what are you going to do? Attach some wires to your solar panel
and power your own little TV so you can catch the replays?  ;^)

mike

    HAHA!!  Yeah, how'd you know, Mike?!  Also, I'm going to dye my
    remaining hair neon orange with neon green pinstripes.......
    
    :-)
    
    H�wk

Yeah, and hold a sign that says "Raul 16:69".....

For a nominal fee, I think we can get a group of youngsters from
Mefaa to make up a sign, and get them in the stands to hold it up.

And for an even more nominal fee, I'll come with you and yell bad
things about the other swimmers competeting against your daughter....

And, of course, we'll have to participate in the baseball game that
will inevitabley break out in the Men's room.....

8^),
'Saw

    
    -1
    
    Rollin' away, rollin away, 'Saw.  Say n'more, say n'more.
    
    Dickster
    

    Some suggestions for ya, H�wk (and other moms and dads out there):
    
    	- if you can afford it, buy a video camera and tape your kids'
    	  races and maybe even some practices.  You'll love the memories
    	  you save and in the future, they can use it for technique
    	  analysis once they get to that point of self-improvement.
    
    	- don't let them use those damn handpaddles at this young age.
    	  If their coach has them using them, have a talk with him/her.
    	  Swimmers should only start using those paddles in high school.
    	  I had shoulder problems by the time I was 15 and I'm sure
    	  the handpaddles contributed greatly.  There are other methods
    	  of coaching that produce the same results without artificial
    	  resistance.  A good coach will know this.
    
    	- make sure the kids know the value of stretching before 
    	  workouts and meets.  A muscle injury in a sport like swimming
    	  or running will haunt them the rest of their careers.
    
    	- For future reference: be expected to put up with wierd stuff
    	  like shaving off all body hair, shaving heads (another good
    	  reason to have a video camera - wish I'd have gotten my
    	  cueball on tape). Unruly, chlorinated hair.  In the case of 
    	  your daughter, a coach might ask her NOT to shave until 
    	  the championships.  
    
    	  If your kids ever make it to high school competition, stuff 
    	  like this is fodder for teasing.  I remember the "jocks" (for
    	  some reason swimmers never qualified) teasing us in the
    	  cafeteria before we went off to the state championships.
    	  We returned with the state-runner-up trophy a week later
    	  and set it at our table.  Our 0-10 football team and
    	  2-19 basketball team didn't have much to say after that,
    	  especially after the school held an assembly recognizing
    	  our accomplishment and that every senior on the boys' team
    	  (there were 3 of us) was offered complete scholarships
    	  to Drexel, Alabama, and Ohio, respectively.
    
    	--dan'l (on that soapbox again)

Dan'l,

Do you know a swimmer that doesn't have shoulder problems? I was friends with
a few guys in high school that were very good swimmers (2 of them got 
scholarships) but both had to retire after a few years of college swimming 
due to shoulder injuries that they had through high school but had gotten
worse to the point of needing surgery.

Is it that common an Injury for swimmers ?


John

    The shoulders and back are the most common injury, usually bursitis. 
    Actually, it's not the sport in general, but the stroke.  
    
    I was a butterflyer and my career basically ended after my sophomore
    year of college, though I continued to swim in my junior year.  My
    shoulders just couldn't take the constant rotation.  But I was a
    freestyler through most of highschool and that's when I first started
    having problems.  The handpaddles expidited the end of my career.  
    
    An additional catalyst to the end was that in college, the events are
    longer.  There is no such thing as a 100 yard butterfly event like in
    high school.  Suddenly I was training for and swimming the 200 yard
    butterfly (that's 8 lengths butterfly at race speed -- ugh).
    
    The safest strokes are backstroke and breaststroke as far as wear and
    tear on the joints, but competitive breaststroke is hell on the
    muscles, every one of them.  Anyone out there want to build up your
    pecs fast?  Forget Nautilis and weights.  Get in the pool, put a
    pull-bouy between your legs and try pulling breaststroke.  You'll have
    a Shwartzenegger chest in two weeks.
    
    	--dan'l

�                       -< What are handpaddles, dan'l? >-

    
You mean you and your wife don't have a set?  Hawk, they're so much
fun....8^)

I think they're these doo-dads you wear on your hands which get
more water outta the way on your stroke...

'Saw

    Handpaddles come in various sizes, shapes, and colors depending on the
    manufacturer.  
    
    Basically, they are pieces of hand-sized plastic that you slip onto
    your hand (via surgical tubing), kind of like a hard-plastic glove. 
    The object is to create resistance as you pull your arms through the
    water.  It does help refine your stroke.
    
    However, the trouble lies in the physics of the thing.  For every
    action, there is an opposite reaction.  When you pull through the water
    wearing handpaddles, you are forced to apply more pressure with your
    shoulders than your hands.  In the process of refining your stroke and
    building upper-body muscles, the shoulder joints take a real beating.
    
    Beware.
    
    	--dan'l
    
    

    Speedo has some new ones that are basically webbed gloves that give
    you the workout, but with less wear and tear on your shoulders and 
    they're much more comfy.  
    
    Bret

    
    
    I thought I'd write and tell you about my two kids who have been
    swimming competitivly for the last six years. The eldest one has
    started university this year and has now given up, however the youngest
    is still at high school and is still as keen as ever.
    
    When they started at ages 10 and 12 they were only swimming once a week
    during the summer at an outdoor 50m pool. Then when winter came they
    thought they would like to keep going so Dad started taking them about
    3 times a week plus competition nights.
    
    
    To cut a long story short, the youngest who is now 17 is going to 10
    sessions a week plus two weights and dry land training sessions. The
    swimming sessions start at 5 a.m. till 7.15 a.m. and the afternoon
    sessions 5 p.m. till 7.30 p.m. The average session is 7.5 kilometres so
    she sees the black line for approximately 75k a week and 20 hours.
    However she still loves going maybe because of the rewards, she has
    been to every state capital in Australia for national titles,Shanghai
    in China with an Australian team,also Hong Kong,and New Zealand. She
    would have made the 200m,400m,and 800m finals at the last Commonwealth
    games except each country is only allowed 3 swimmers. If she had been
    born anywhere else in Commonwealth she would have been there. I think
    her next ambition is the world cup in January this is in Perth Australia and
    Barcelona '92. I read in one of the previous notes that some guys
    managed scholarships to university for swimming is it the same for
    girls ?
    
    So if anyone out there is considering showing their kids the nearest
    swimming pool, it can lead to many early mornings but they if they stick
    to it there are some good rewards. It also has the good results in that
    they only watch a minimum of TV, they are off the streets and not
    causing any problems.
    
    
    Regards 
    
    Mike

    That's impressive, Mike.  We'll be looking for her in '92.  
    
    Sounds like your daughter could snatch up a free education in any state
    she chooses if you wanted to send her to this country.  In fact, most
    college swim teams these days have several members from other
    countries.  When I swam for Ohio, we had six Norwegians and a
    Venezulan.
    
    	--dan'l

    I kind of have mixed feelings entering this, seeing the true feelings of
    many folks concerning the direction of ::SPORTS, but the "proud dad" side
    of me overpowered the "the hell with it" side.....  :-)
    
    Anyway, my boy was in 2 meets over the weekend, friday night and
    saturday morning.  Friday's was a make-up from wednesday night's
    rainout.  Even though our team lost the meet on friday, Steven placed
    3rd in the freestyle and another 1st in the backstroke!  On saturday,
    the team won the meet, as Steven improved in his freestyle to place
    2nd, and kept his unbeaten streak alive, placing 1st in the backstroke! 
    Three meets and 3 1sts!
    
    Hawk

    
    Does a swim meet getting rained out sound odd to anyone else but
    me?
    
    Dickster
    

    Sounds odd only if its an indoor pool....we have a pool at our house
    and I won't stay in it if its raining!
    
    Wheel

    They had a local 14 year old lady on the radio the other day.  She's
    supposedly the next wonder and a good bet for a gold in the next
    Olympics (has set some records already).
    
    The most interesting part of the interview (to me) is that she said she
    started swimming because of her asthma.  Her coach said that some of
    the best swimmers (i.e., medal winners) are asthmatics.  Swimming helps
    open up the lungs.
    
    Mike

    Dickster, I was going to comment about the rain-out......  It's an
    outdoor pool, actually, they all are in this particular league.  The
    problem is not so much with the swimmers, but the starter, timers,
    organizers, and spectators getting drenched.  During daily practice, if
    it starts raining, the kids keep swimming and the parents/whoever go
    under the picnic area tent to continue gossiping.  :-)  However, under
    the threat of lightening, obviously the pool is cleared (and only the
    troublemakers/punks/future junk noters are forced to stay in).  :-)
    
    Hope this helps in a sports-related (frank)way!  :-)
    
    Hawk

    Mike,
    
    I have a friend who is asthmatic....when we go to the gym to workout
    if she swims too many laps she gets an asthma attack!  One time she
    left her inhaler in my car!!!  Talk about scary!  I have printed out
    your note, however, and will pass it along to her.
    
    Wheel

    Funny you should mention the asthma, Mike.  My son had some nasty bouts
    with asthma as an infant and toddler, in and out of the hospital, under
    oxygen and mist tents, inhalators, constant medications, you name it.
    Fortunately, he grew out of this so-called "Childhood Asthma" at around
    3 & 1/2, having been diagnosed with it at <6 months old.  We didn't
    start him on swim lessons until a year later, at 4 & 1/2, just to make
    absolutely sure that he wouldn't get sick again.  Two years later, he's
    swimming and doing other normal things as if he never had a problem in
    the past.......
    
    I have heard of athletes, swimmers and track and field especially, who
    suffer(ed) from asthma and still excell.
    
    Hawk

My daughter is 3 and she has been playing in the pool since birth. This year she 
has started to hold her breath and go under water. At what age can I expect her
to figure out how to really swim. She enjoys playing in the water. How can I 
encourage her to start swimming.

Jeff

	I'm not surprised that Swimming helps Asthma. From my experience with
running I would hazard a guess that any sport that gives you a good
cardio-vascular workout could help asthmatics.

	I developed allegery-induced asthma starting arround age 26 or so. It
was pretty mild at first, but slowly worsened. At its worst point I was taking
pills twice a day (200 mg Theodur, for you doctors out there :->) and I wouldn't
day go out of the house without a my inhaler. Two years ago, I started running
again (after about a 10 year layoff). The 1st 3 months or so were awful. I 
started out by jogging 30 seconds and walking 1 minute. I was so out of breath
after 30 seconds I had to walk. I slowly increased my jogging intervals until
I could jog for 15 minutes straight. Then I got rid of the walking breaks. But
I never would have made it through a 20 minute jog without the inhaler!

	Anyway, all of a sudden after about three months the most of my
asthma attacks just stopped. Now I only take my pills when I have a cold (or
I'm confined in a small room with a cat!!!) and the last time I had the
prescription refilled was March!!! I never carry the inhaler running anymore
(it is always in the gym bag though). I'ld encourage anybody with asthma to
start excercising, with their doctor's OK of course (mine encouraged me to try).

	Sorry for the diversion from swimming. 

JimH

    Jeff, call your local YWCA, or whatever organization offers toddler
    swim lessons, and ask for the times they give lessons.  Stop by and
    watch, and I'm sure you'll sign your daughter up for the next session. 
    
    My daughter took her 1st lesson at the YWCA at the age of 6 months. 
    They even allowed younger infants in, but it's the parents who're too
    scared!  When they're still infants, parents go in the water with them. 
    The 1st thing we did with our kids was to gently blow in their face,
    then dunk them under and let them float up.  Although the instructor
    assured us that infants have a natural tendancy to hold their breaths
    under water, the thought of dunking this "helpless" little thing was
    real scary!  After we realized that they did hold their breaths, it was
    a piece of cake.  And most kids even enjoyed it!
    
    I've noticed that toddlers (2-4 year olds) will either love swim
    lessons or hate it.  And you can't really force the ones that hate it. 
    But hopefully, they have a great instructor who can encourage them
    in.....
    
    Go for it, it's never too early!
    
    Hawk

I've been an asthmatic since 2nd or 3rd grade. At first they thought it was 
tied to my allergies but recent testing has shown that it is equally tied to
Stomach acid that splashes up my esophogus.

Fortunatly for me it isn't as bad now as it was in high school. I only need the
inhaler during extreme pollen season. For those of you with asthma be careful
with it. There are at least 100 cases a year of death resulting from asthma 
attacks. I always know where the nearest hospital is in case of emergency and
I usually carry my inhaler with me when playing sports. 

PS _ I find that Theodur gave me the shakes and eventually caused me to vomit
	after taking it for a day. I was so hyper after taking it that I couldn't
	sit down..(of course I started the medicine during finals week during
	college a 4-5 years ago:-(  )

Metz

    
    I've seen some films of these tiny babies, not old enough to walk,
    swimming around in pools.  What I don't understand, is how do they
    "teach" a six-month year old kid to swim?
    
    Are babies born with a natural ability to swim?  If so, then at
    what point are they not able to swim, so that they have to be taught
    all over again?
    
    I understand that all animals have a natural ability to swim.  Is
    man the only animal that does not have this ability and has to be
    taught?
    
    Dickster, being serious today.
    

    Theodur gave you the shakes, Metz, because it's a caffeine derivative. 
    That was my son's daily medication to prevent asthma flare-ups
    although, once he caught a cold, the flare-up was inevitable, and so
    was hospitalization.......
    
    Chocolate has caffeine in it and I've heard that eating a chocolate bar
    can provide some relief for a mild asthma sufferer......
    
    Hawk

Dickster, think about it....

We swim around in the womb for 9 months.  

I don't know if man's swimming ability is inate, but I do know that
if you learn something like that at a very young age, you are more
comfortable around the water, than if, like me, you learn much older.

I enjoy the beach or the pool, but I learned in a first aid course one
time when i had to play a drowning victim that I never really relax 
in the water...

FrankWa

    Dickster, you're making me think back 9 years!  Ouch, that hurts!
    
    If I remember correctly, an infant doesn't actually swim, as in
    freestyle, bactstroke, etc.  What an infant does, or is trained to do,
    is to be able to hold it's breath under water (blowing in it's face
    before dunking initiates this response), then float back up to the
    surface and stay afloat on it's back.  I guess it's more of a survival
    technique than being able to swim.  Then they get a bit older, say, 1
    to 1 & 1/2 years, and they learn to reach for either something to keep
    them afloat or to grab the side of the pool, as well as learning to
    tread water.  Then, you start in with kick-boards, which by then,
    they're actually learning to "swim".
    
    HTH.
    
    Hawk

    addendum to last reply.......
    
    Regarding infants treading water.........  Now that I think of it,
    treading water, I believe, is more a natural response, not a learned
    one.  But, I could be wrong.......
    
    Hawk

    FWIW, I also remember the swim coach saying that asthmatics have such a
    hard time breathing to begin with that they build up better endurance
    than non-asthmatic swimmers.
    
    FWIW, these last few notes show how good SPORTS can be.
    
    Mike

    re: babies swimming
    
    A friend of my mothers was going to take her baby to the Y for
    swimming.  Apparently (this is what I was told) they just throw
    the babes in the water and instinct takes over.
    
    Wheel

    I taught "Baby Swim" in college.  We didn't accept babies over 18
    months.  The technique was invented by an Australian doctor who taught
    his baby daughter to swim at 1 month.  His theory was that fear of
    water is learned once a child can begin to reason (i.e. water can hurt
    you, you can die).
    
    He proved his theory.  We are mammals and most if not all mammals
    naturally know how to swim.  It is said the ability to reason is what
    sets man apart from other animals.  However, when it comes to swimming,
    not being able to reason gives a point to the animals.  Like Nike, they
    Just Do It.
    
    	--dan'l

Well Speaking from experience, my 1 yr old dumped himself out of his float ring 
into the pool while I was looking at a literary classics Titles. He floated up 
and grabbed hold of my arm and gave me one of those "you F***** up dad" looks. 


Jeff

In a related vain (similar to Scuba Diving),  if any of you
saw The Abyss, the fluid breathing apparatus in that movie
is technically not that far off.

A highly oxygenated fluid is being researched for similar type
applications.

When you come right down to it, human start out with fluid in 
their lungs for 9 months.  We can extract oxygen from water, but
our lungs don't have muscle to push it out.  An oxygenated fluid
would make this easier...

Babies are very used to a fluid environment.

Hope this has been Sports related, and has not been taken as
disparaging by non-swmimmers, non-babies, or non-fluid breathers.

'saw

    
    Ironically, last night after getting home I flipped on the evening
    news and they had a story about a guy who dived into the water at
    some zoo to rescue a drowning chimpanzee.  They said it was pretty
    stupid and dangerous because drowning people are tough enough to
    handle, but these sumbitches are supposed to be incredibly strong.
    
    Chimps, according to the newscast, cannot swim.  That shoots the
    "animals can instinctively swim" theory all to hell, doesn't it?
    
    Maybe it's just a trait of the humanoids.  Can anyone point me to
    the ::SPORTSANIMALS Note?
    
    Dickster
    

    
    re. -.51
    
    Not all animals can swim.  A chimpanzee can not swim.  The new Detroit
    Zoo chimp exhibit has had some problems because of a 5ft deep moat
    around the exhibit.  All the zoo directors thought chimps were afraid
    of the water.  About a month back a female chimp drowned and just last
    Sunday two males were fighting and one of them fell in.  A man climbed
    over a 4ft fence and jumped in to rescue the chimp.  Someone had their
    video camera rolling and caught the entire scene on videotape.
    
    Most people were equally split on whether he should have risked his
    life to save the chimp.  The chimp was unconscious when the man
    reached him otherwise the chimp could have ripped his arm off.
    
    Sorry for the digression from sports.
    
    \pjb

Phil, I find your remarks potentially disparaging to people who
likes chimps and people with no arms...

Actually, I think it was commendable for that man to do that.

Since they have made such inroads in teaching things to chimps, I wonder
if they could be taught to swim.  Hmmm....well, I suppose I should
take that to the animal behavorists conference...

So, Hawk, when is your son's next meet?  Can we expect another
win in the backstroke (which is my particular favorite.....)

'Saw

    I would think that all zoos would be responsible enough to take their
    baby chimps to the Y for swim lessons and avoid these senseless
    drownings...........
    
    Can you just picture a chimp doing a "butterfly" the nexted time you go
    for a visit?  Before you know it, there'll be chimps competing in the
    Olympics!  :-)
    
    [insert standard no offense intended clause here]
    
    Hawk 

    All tomfoolery aside......
    
    Psycho's next meet is Saturday morning against the Beverly (MA) Swim
    Club.  Beverly has been very strong, going home with the league
    championship the last 3-4 years in a row.  Before that, our club had a
    long streak of about 7 or 8 years.  We're looking to take it back this
    year.  Saturday's meet is just a regular meet.  The championships are a
    couple weeks away.......
    
    Hawk

>    Chimps, according to the newscast, cannot swim.  That shoots the
>    "animals can instinctively swim" theory all to hell, doesn't it?
    
    Not necessarily.  It could conversely be supportive reasoning for these
    animals' human-like ability to reason.  Perhaps they are more like us in
    that they too gain a fear of water once they reach reasoning age.
    
    	--dan'l

    That's why I say that the earlier they get these chimps to the Y, the
    better.......  :-)
    
    Hawk

    
    Could be dan'l, but now I don't know how to categorize the dolphin,
    a mammal that seems to swim pretty well, and is supposedly highly
    intelligent.
    
    However, if they're so smart, how come I've never seen one walkin'
    on land and, like, doing his own shopping at the supermarket.
    
    Dickster
    

>   However, if they're so smart [dolphins], how come I've never seen one walkin'
>    on land and, like, doing his own shopping at the supermarket.
    
    I do walk on land and I do shop at the supermarket.
    
    	--dan'l
    
    	MAC Champ '82 & '83
    
    ;-)

    
    
    I have just read in the newspapers that an Aussie schoolgirl completed
    the English channel swim. Susie Marony a 15 year old from Sydney swam
    the English Channel (approx 21 miles/35km) in 8 hours 29 minutes. The
    water temp of 17 degrees celcius/63 degrees F was her main concern.
    However after 6 hours she was in pain and her coach had to keep her
    going. She says that she intends to compete in the round Manhattan swim
    on August 19th before coming back to Sydney and returning to school.
    
    How many swimmers take part in the New York race and is their any prize
    money or is an amateur race?
    
    Mike G

>    She says that she intends to compete in the round Manhattan swim
>    on August 19th before coming back to Sydney and returning to school.
>    
>    How many swimmers take part in the New York race and is their any prize
>    money or is an amateur race?
    
    I'm not sure, but I think with that water it might be a foot race! 8-)
    
    Yucko!  No way you'd get me in that water.
    
    	--dan'l

   The New York Free Style Grand Prix is held in the sewers of the city.
   Thousands participate each year, and they're a hard ticket to get.
   Coverage is on PUBIC (Public Information Channel). It is  traditionally
   held on July 14th (Bastille Day). Winner this year was a 15 year old
   Australian girl who listed swimming the English Channel as her next
   challenge. Second and Third place went to a pair of chimps named Psycho
   and Booger.

   Mike JN

   PS No offense is intended blah, blah, blah....

    Well, "Psycho" met his match on Saturday morning.  If you recall, I
    mentioned last week that the team we were competing against is very
    strong and are the defending champs......
    
    Anyway, in the freestyle, Steven didn't place in the top 3.  In the
    backstroke, even though he swam his best-ever race, he placed a real
    close 2nd.  It was so close, that it was reaction time on the part of
    the timers that determined the winner, as they both touched the wall at
    the exact same time.  The way a race is timed is having 2 people (1
    parent from each team) in each lane with an electronic stop-watch, and
    averaging their times.  Obviously, no 2 people will have the same
    reaction time, and this race could've gone either way.  Oh well!
    
    Now the Psychman is psyched to win back his #1 spot from the kid who
    took it away from him.  The league championships will start this
    thursday and he's going to Wade(tm) for it all, then route on his
    teammates to bring home the gold too!
    
    Hawk

    Could be the best thing that ever happened to him, Hawk.  I remember
    quite a few seasons in Little League that we'd lose a game half way
    through the season, and come back stronger, and with more determination
    than ever before.
    
    					Steve

    Yeah Steve, definitely good for him.  Although he never copped a cocky
    attitude after his 1st 3 wins, he seemed somewhat complacent before
    this last race.  He sure isn't complacent now- he's definitely psyched! 
    One thing's for sure, whether he wins or loses to this kid on thursday,
    he will be offering a handshake after the race......
    
    Hawk

    Hawk, I was on vacation when this note started, and really never
    got into it until today.  
    
    Congrats to Steven on his 3 wins.  Sure is tough to be a papa of
    an athlete, huh?  
    
    On losing, I think that's the EASIEST time to be the parent.  Usually,
    the kid is so down, and no one else is really comforting him, that
    you can get to him.  When they win, that's tough.  Everyone loves
    a winner, so they get all these people telling them how great they
    are.  You see this, and it's tough to bring them down a little,
    so that reality doesn't wack them when they lose (and, they all
    lose sometime).
    
    But, with Steven and Julie being so active in sports, you're in
    far a hell of a lot of enjoyment over the next 12 years or so.
    
    Give him my best wishes in his meet.
    
    Lee

    Thanks, Lee.  If he wins this thursday, I'll load up the back of the
    family-wagon with all his trophies and ribbons and come over to your
    house and show 'em off......  :-)
    
    Seriously, even if he doesn't place 1st, but 2nd or even 3rd, I try to
    make him feel like he's still a winner.  When he took 2nd the other
    day, I was still very proud of him, which helped him feel better about
    not getting the 1st that he was used to getting.  You're right, Lee, it
    is much easier to talk to kids after a loss, and they definitely do get
    much more out of the talk........
    
    Can't wait for thursday afternoon!
    
    Hawk

Hawk --

FWIW, I've always felt that anyone who lines up on the starting 
line, hears the gun, and gives 100% is still a winner.

There are many here among us (to borrow a line from Jimi and Bob) that
are hung up on BESTs.  Who's the best this, who's the best that.
Let's see, if you take his possible chances of handling the ball 
on the 3rd tuesday of every month during his career that there was
two full moons, and divide that by the size of his inseam, then
multiply by the square root of the size bat he used, you'll see
the he beats player y out hands down and is therefore the BEST.

Well, you get the point. 

At any rate, I feel participating is the key.  The Red Sox program
had a historical feature in it on the players who were on the
Red Sox World Champion Team in 1915.  Looking at them, there were
men I never heard of.  Men who made no impression on me other than
a face staring back out of an old photograph.

And then it dawned on me that these men participated in something
unique... something so unique that no one will ever be able to
reproduce it.  

They played baseball in the early years of this century.  The atmosphere,
the times... all gone.

By participating you experience something that few other people will
ever know.....

Your son, as he continues his swimming will come to know himself in
a way that a non-participant never will....  That in itself is victory.

'Saw

    Agreed 100%, 'Saw.  I haven't lost sight of the fact that even if he'd
    be finishing dead last every time he lines up, that he's a winner in my
    eyes and that he knows that he's a winner in his own........
    
    Good point on the "best" hang-ups/syndrome.
    
    Hawk (who'll be stuffing the Psychman with hi-carbs the night before
    	  and Wheaties the day of the race! :-)  ).
    

    One of the first prominent black swimmers, Chris Silva, was killed in a
    car wreck in Fort Lauderdale Sunday.
    
    Silva swam breaststroke and butterfly for UCLA back in the early 80s
    and just missed the cuts for the 84 and 88 olympics.
    
    I can remember seeing his picture in SI when I was in college and
    remarking that he was the first black swimmer I had ever seen.  Then
    that year, I swam against a black swimmer at Johns Hopkins (and got
    beat badly by the way).  Other than that, I never met another one.
    
    	--dan'l