Conference 7.286::sports_90

Good start PJ.  

I'll try to keep the Arsenal bashing to a minimum 8^)

I think Liverpool will be in contention again, as usual.  I think
the big question mark for them is Barnes.  If Barnes is still there,
then they'll be doing really well.  If not....

Beardsley is an important contributor also, and I thought he played
well in the Cup, so he seems to be on his game.

And of course, there's always Rush, and his new partner from Belgium
(forget his name....).

I think the teams to watch are 'Pool, Tottenham Hotspur, Aston Villa,
the Gunners, and Nottingham Forest.  Course 'Pool will take it all. 8^)
Can't overlook Everton either...

Who are the promoted teams?  I believe Leeds is one, but can't remember
the other two.  Millwall, Sheffield Wednesday and ? went down....


Go Reds, Pride of Merseyside

Yeah!  That's the name...

I miss the days of Rush and Aldridge together, but this Rosenthal is
a force to be reckoned with also.....

'Saw

    The three new teams in the First Division this season are:
    
    	Leeds United  (their hooligan fans are more notorious than the
    			team!!)
    
    	Sheffield United  (Manager Dave Bassett gets more press than
    			   the team) 
                 
    	Sunderland  (I'm not sure how they got promoted!!)
    
    
    
    I think this season will be the battle of the BIG clubs.  Most have
    spent heavily recently and dividends are well overdue.  I would
    expect the following to be in contention towards the end of the
    season....           
    
        Arsenal
    	Aston Villa                 (Note that the teams have
    	Chelsea                      tactfully been placed in
    	Liverpool                    alphabetical order......
    	Manchester United            with the best team on top!!)
        Nottingham Forest
        
    I predict that the surprise team of the year will come from one
    of the following:
    
    	Queens Park Rangers
    	Crytal Palace
    	Manchester City
    	Sheffield United
    
    The season's biggest disappointment......EVERTON
                                                         
    
    'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go......
    PJ

>>   I think this season will be the battle of the BIG clubs.  Most have
>>   spent heavily recently and dividends are well overdue.  I would
>>   expect the following to be in contention towards the end of the
>>   season....           
>>    
>>      Arsenal
>>    	Aston Villa                 (Note that the teams have
>>    	Chelsea                      tactfully been placed in
>>    	Liverpool                    alphabetical order......
>>    	Manchester United            with the best team on top!!)
>>      Nottingham Forest

    
    Sorry, I forgot to include Tottenham Hotspur.  They'll be right
    up there too.

    Manchester United and Nottingham Forest - those are two teams I
    remember from Soccer, British Style.   My two favs back then.  How
    have they been doing in recent years???
    
    JD

Fair....

Forest finished in 5th place, I believe last season.  Most notable
is their striker Nigel Clough, son of Forest manager Bryan Clough.

(If you remember the bishop skit from Monty Python, when they carry
the guy out and he's "coughing", he's really saying "Bryan Clough,
Bryan Clough".)

Bryan clough is most notable for getting into it with a couple of
fans 2(?) years ago and getting suspended...well, maybe not most
notable, but it's something he did....


Manchester United finished mid-table last season (I think), and
I believe Gordon Strachan plays for them (or am I all wet PJ, I don't
have my Rothmans here)....

See the (red) light, JD, and support Liverpool, the Pride of Merseyside!

     Nottingham will never win a title (or acquisition) cuz they cain't
    handle that clan from Sherwood forest. Of the teams I saw play I like
    Aston Villa and Liverpool. 	Arsonel also plays really well. 

   I'll bet Strachan is pronounced `Strawn', right?
   Just like Ruthven is `Riven'?

   I love names like that. Some of the Irish names are 
   really doozies, too.

   It'll be something like Cuchahulaigbredhon...
   and it'll be pronounced `Ken'

   Question.... do these teams have team nicknames
   (ya know? Like Denver Broncos... or Cleveland Fruits?)
   If so.. please list them.

   Thanks
   Mike JN

�   I'll bet Strachan is pronounced `Strawn', right?
�   Just like Ruthven is `Riven'?

Strock-en... he's Scottish, if I remember correctly.

�   Question.... do these teams have team nicknames
�   (ya know? Like Denver Broncos... or Cleveland Fruits?)
�   If so.. please list them.


Liverpool:  Reds, or simply 'Pool,  "The Pride of Merseyside", they play
	    at Anfield Road.   Sponsor is Candy.

Arsenal:    Gunners, PJ's favorite team, they're okay I guess, they
            play at Highbury(?).  Sponsor is JVC.

Nottingham Forest: Forest, sponsor is Shipstone

Norwich City:  Canaries  (wear yellow shirts, green shorts), forget
               where they play and who their sponsor is...

Conventry City: Blues(?)

Derby County:  (pronounced "Darby", which also is the term used for a 
                rivalry, like Liverpool - Everton derby).
		They play at The Baseball Ground.


PJ, can you correct this, and fill in the rest?  

If not I'll bring in my Rothmans tomorrow and do it...

'Saw

    Don't mean to pick nits, but Coventry City are known as the "Sky
    Blues". A sure way of figgering this out: Almost all teams are
    identified some way by their coloUr.
    
    A couple of others from Scotland
    
    Celtic Glasgow: The Bhoys, The Tims, The 'tic.
    Aberdeen FC: The Dons, The Sheepshaggers
    Glasgow Rangers: The 'gers, the Bears, the Blues, England :-)
    
    Speaking of Monty Python a few back, I always liked the game show with
    various revolutionaries (Karl Marx, Freidrich Engels, Che Guivara, Mao
    Tse Tung, etc.) being quizzed on Football trivia:
    
    Q: When was the last time Wolverhamptom Wanderers won the FA Cup?
    
    Karl Marx: "The workers of the world control the means of
    production......"
    Q: Sorry, that is an incorrect answer. The answer is...1948, when they
    beat Leicester, 3-1. 
    
    The Bonus Question was:
    When was the last time Coventry City have won the FA Cup?
    
    No one answers, and the host says, "Well, I'm not surprised no one got
    the answer, it was in fact, a trick question, Coventry City have NEVER
    won the FA Cup..."
    
    Until 1987, that is.
    
    Tom 
                                     

Sky Blues...how could I have forgotten!  

Check out David Speedie...Hawk, you'd love 'im.  Little bald Scottish
guy (at least he looks bald anyway).  Runs his a__ off, and outjumps
a lot of guys who're taller than him.

In fact, I'd almost call him the Spud Webb of English soccer.

I forgot to mention Tottenham Hotspur, nickname is Spurs.  The way
we're all forgetting them, I wouldn't be surprised if the stole
the championship this year.

Celtic, of the Scottish league's colours are green, and their fans
are predominantly Catholic.  Rangers colours are blue, and their
fans are predominantly Protestant.  Makes for some interesting
discussion in the Football conference.

'Saw

A little background on the English League and FA Cup.

The English League has four divisons, One thru Four (some leagues
call the top division Premier).

Anyway, there are twenty teams in Division One.  Every year, the
bottom three finishers are relegated to Division Two, and the first
place finisher of Division 2 is automatically promoted.  There is
a playoff scheme for the other two Div 2 teams who will be promoted.

It works similarly for Division 3 into Division 2, and Division 4
into Division 3.  The last place finisher in Division 4 is 
relegated to the GM Vauxhaul Conference, and their champ is promoted.

There are no playoffs at all.  If after 38 fixtures, Liverpool sits
atop the Division 1 table, they are the champs.  (Oh yeah, PJ, if
Arsenal is there, Liverpool is still the BEST 8^))


The FA Cup is a tournament that's really kind of neat.  It runs
concurrently with the season, and teams (all?) from all four divisions
compete.

There are pairings drawn, and they play a home and home series.  So
Liverpool, if they've drawn Wolverhampton (Div3 ?) will play one match
at Anfield Rd, and one at Wolverhamptons grounds.  The winner is the
team with a higher goal aggregate.  The winners advance, the losers
are eliminated.

The culmination of the FA Cup is the championship match, usually in
mid to late May.

The crowning glory of the English league is to win the "Double".
That is, to be league champs, and FA Cup champs in the same season.

Liverpool came within a very late goal of doing that in 1989.  They were
FA Cup champs, but (o pain, o misery) Arsenal and LIverpool were tied
atop the table, and Arsenal beat Liverpool on goal difference, the 
one goal difference a VERY late goal in their final league fixture...

HTH,
'Saw

    'saw -
    
    That does in fact help.  Suddenly I understand about 50% more of the
    Football conference!  Many thanks.
    
    A&W

>>    A little background on the English League and FA Cup.

>>The English League has four divisons, One thru Four (some leagues
>>call the top division Premier).

>>Anyway, there are twenty teams in Division One.  Every year, the
>>bottom three finishers are relegated to Division Two, and the first
>>place finisher of Division 2 is automatically promoted.  There is
>>a playoff scheme for the other two Div 2 teams who will be promoted.
>>It works similarly for Division 3 into Division 2, and Division 4
>>into Division 3.  The last place finisher in Division 4 is 
>>relegated to the GM Vauxhaul Conference, and their champ is promoted.


In actual fact the top 2 get promoted automatically,the next 4 teams
i.e 3rd,4th,5th,6th playoff for the last remaining promotion place
This last year was strange in that although Swindon town beat Sunderland
in the final Qualifier they lost their promotion place due to tax fraud and
irregular player payments and will be in division 2 this season.
Sunderland were promoted.




>>The FA Cup is a tournament that's really kind of neat.  It runs
>>concurrently with the season, and teams (all?) from all four divisions
>>compete.

>>There are pairings drawn, and they play a home and home series.  So
>>Liverpool, if they've drawn Wolverhampton (Div3 ?) will play one match
>>at Anfield Rd, and one at Wolverhamptons grounds.  The winner is the
>>team with a higher goal aggregate.  The winners advance, the losers
>>are eliminated.

The FA cup is a knockout tournament one match each round
this tournament is open to all affiliated clubs of the English Football
Association.
Preliminary rounds are played between Amateur teams (teams not in divisions 1-4)
1st and 2nd rnds involve 3rd division,4th division and amateur teams
3rd round sees the 1st and 2nd division teams enter

>>The culmination of the FA Cup is the championship match, usually in
>>mid to late May.

>>The crowning glory of the English league is to win the "Double".
>>That is, to be league champs, and FA Cup champs in the same season.

>>Liverpool came within a very late goal of doing that in 1989.  They were
>>FA Cup champs, but (o pain, o misery) Arsenal and LIverpool were tied
>>atop the table, and Arsenal beat Liverpool on goal difference, the 
>>one goal difference a VERY late goal in their final league fixture...


Liverpool won the double in 1985
Arsenal won the double in 1971
Tottenham won the double in 1961

Thank for the corrections.  I was doing it from memory without
my trusty Rothmans at hand.

I guess I got the format for the FA Cup mixed up with the
European Cup (all the league champs from Europe) and the
European Cup Winners Cup (all the Cup winners in Europe).  

They do the home and home deal (right?) and if I remember correctly,
a goal score away counts for more than a goal scored at home in those
matches.....

Anyway, it should be a good season coming up!

'Saw

>They do the home and home deal (right?) and if I remember correctly,
>a goal score away counts for more than a goal scored at home in those
>matches.....
    
    Almost.  If, after both home and away legs have been played, the
    aggregate score is equal, then goals scored "away" are counted as
    double.
    
    e.g. A draws with B at A's ground 0-0.   Second leg at B's ground is
    1-1 then team A will go through on the "away goals" rule.
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    Steve
    

    Players to watch this season....
    
    Apart from the obvious players (like John Barnes, Paul "Gazza"
    Gascoigne, and Bryan Robson) here are a few players to keep an eye
    out for.....
    
    Lee Dixon, Nigel Winterburn, Paul Davis, Andrew Cole  (ARSENAL)
    Tony Dorigo   (CHELSEA)
    Ronnie Rosenthal   (LIVERPOOL)
    Paul Ince, Danny Wallace   (MANCHESTER UNITED)
    David Platt  (ASTON VILLA)
    
    
    There are others, of course,  how about some nominations from the
    field??
    PJ

Well, PJ, Steve Nicol is a sentimental favorite.  Gawd can he play D.


Other interesting players:


		Shilton (DERBY COUNTY) or is it Luton?  
			because he's an old guy still playing goal

		Southall (EVERTON)  A somewhat chunky goalie
			who has a style all his own, and is really a
			very good keeper.

		Des Walker (I forget)  A really speedy defender


Have to bring in my Rothmans next week....

later,
'Saw

    In my opinion, Englands future forwards, are Southampton's
    
    		Rodney Wallace and Mathew Le Tisier.
    
    Both are exceptionaly talented and quick. I bet they will play in
    friendly for England soon.
    
    Wayne.

Thanks Wayne, for refreshing my memory.

I couldn't think of Rodney Wallace's name for the life of me.

He's one of a trio of brothers, right?

'Saw

    Quite right, Wayne....
    	Everyone said that Man United bought the wrong brother!!!
    
    
    Pity the rest of the team play like a bunch of sick nuns!!
    
    Oh Well,
    PJ

Thought of another quaint little habit that the British have, that
sometimes fools me and other Yanks when reading soccer results.

When reading English league results, the home team is always
listed first, thus:

	Liverpool 4, Aresenal 1  

took place at Anfield Rd, whereas:

	Arsenal 0, Liverpool 2

took place at Highbury.


We over hear, usually place the home team last, as in

	NY Giants 39, Devner 20

which would have taken place in Pile it High(tm).


So, don't be confused by this British habit....(but what can you expect
from folks who drive on the wrong side of the road 8^) 8^) 8^) 8^) )

'Saw

COGITO::HILL                                         21 lines  23-JUL-1990 12:55
                             -< Wembley memories >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    RE .51, Everton and Liverpool
    
    Saw, you would have loved the Charity Shield at Wembley that I had the
    chance to see in 1984. Everton vs Liverpool, 1-0. (Not to mention the
    '89 FA Cup Final!) 
    I was in England the previous May, and had a chance to see the FA Cup 
    Final between Everton and Watford. Everton won, 2-nil. I bought a 
    terrace ticket in the Watford section from some tout (scalper) for 
    face value, 5 quid, just as they were playing "God Save the Queen" 
    inside. The section was packed, so we climbed up on a chain link fence 
    by the rafters and could see perfectly. Late in the game, Watford scored 
    a goal, but he was offside. When play came back down to our end, the 
    Watford crowd chanted in unision, "Who's the wanker, who's the wanker, 
    who's the wanker in the balck!" I just about fell off my perch, I was 
    laughing so hard.
    
    My whole experience in England was like a 24 hour long Monty Python
    episode. The place is amazing!
    
    Tom
    
================================================================================
CAM::WAY "For I intend to go in harm's way"           9 lines  23-JUL-1990 12:58
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I personally won't be happy until I get a chance to take
in a game at Anfield.  Hopefully while Rush is still playing....

Then, afterwards, stop in a pub, suck down some ale...

That is of course if I don't kill myself driving on the left hand
side of the road ;^)

'Saw
    

>                                          ....(but what can you expect
>    from folks who drive on the wrong side of the road 8^) 8^) 8^) 8^) )  
    
    You seem to get the scores the wrong way round, as well, 'Saw !
    8^)  8^)  8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    Wayne

>>   thus:
>>	Liverpool 4, Aresenal 1  
>>   took place at Anfield Rd, whereas:
>>
>>	Arsenal 0, Liverpool 2
>>   took place at Highbury.
             
	Hey 'saw,
    	
    	Remember that thin ice you were standing on??
    
    			ker..SPLASH!!!   
    
                                          
    	PJ
    	(Who's taking the gloves off now!!)
    

PJ, 

Ain't it gonna be a great season?

I'm glad you get such a kick out of my subtle little innuendos...

Actually, if I were to predict, I'd predict a split, home and
home, for our two teams.  

I think 'Pool is going to have a harder time of it this year
than last....

later dude,
'Saw

    Just got my tickets for opening day (August 25th)....
    
    	WIMBLEDON  vs   ARSENAL     (at Wimbledon's Plough Lane)
    
    The last time Arsenal won the League Championship, when they defeated
    Liverpool 2-0 at Anfield in the last game of the season (sorry 'saw
    I just had to rub it in), they started the season at....Wimbledon!!!
    So this is without question a positive omen and a predictor of future
    glories for the Gunners. 
                                          
    "Away the lads, away the lads...."
    PJ

    > ......opening day (August 25th)......  WIMBLEDON vs ARSENAL......
    
    Holy earthquake, Batman!  Giantsmania and Arsenalmania on the same day!  
    Can the world survive both?  Tune-in in another month, same bat-time,
    same bat-channel.......  :-)
    
    H�wk

PJ,

Don't have my new Rothmans yet... who do the Reds play that day, and
will they open at Anfield?

(And you wait, dude, I'm gonna get me the words to some of those
terrace songs, and I'll be postin' 'em back at ya...8^)

I'm gonna love this season!

'Saw

    The NEW Archbishop of Cnaterbury is an ARSENAL fan !

Yeah, but Liverpool has me, and I'll go up against God anytime 8^)

(Don't forget, I used to catch Jesus in the old Jerusalem league, 
so I know his stuff ;^))

'Saw

    
    'saw
    
    I tried to send you a Liverpool schedule by VMSmail from another
    conference.  Did you get anything yet or are the Gremlins in the
    machine Arsenal fans???
    
    PJ

    
    		<Gunners demolish Aston Villa>
    
    ...but then lose to Sampdoria in the final of the Makita Invitational.
    
    Arsenal beat Aston Villa 2-0 in the semi-final of the Makita
    Invitational Tournament at Wembley this weekend with goals from two new
    and rising stars.  The first was a cracking shot from Anders Limpar,
    the new million pound signing from Sweden and the second a well placed
    shot from Arsenal reserve player Campbell who is trying to fight his
    way into the first team.
    
    Unaccustomed to playing two games with ten hours and playing in 90
    degree heat, Arsenal then succumed to Sampdoria 1-0 in the final.  The
    solitary goal coming from Desena 2 minutes before half-time.
    
    FYFC (from your foreign correspondent)
    PJ
    
    (Only two weeks to the start of the season!!!)

    The Football League season began last Saturday and lay the seeds for a
    fascinating contest.  The League's stronger teams showed their true
    form and all indication are that this season will be fought down to the
    wire.
    
    
    Selected scores   (home team first)
    
    Wimbledon 0      Arsenal 3
    	Boring first half, but Arsenal took charge at the start of the
    second.  Watch out for new Arsenal signing Anders Limpar this season as
    well as the two Paul's....Merson and Davis.
    
    Sheffield United 1    Liverpool 3
    
    	Sheffield goalie Tracey carried off after twenty minutes with a
    broken chinbone.  Replaced by new signing Townsend a defender. 
    Liverpool should have dominated but didn't make the effort.
    
    Tottenham Hotspur 3    Manchester City 1
    
    	Gary Lineker scored after 1 minute 57 seconds to give Tottenham a
    lead they never looked like losing.  He added a second later in the
    game with Paul 'GAZZA' Gasciogne finishing a fine performance with a
    third.
    
    
    More scores later,
    
    PJ

PJ --

What did Southall do to get fined �4000????

I heard it was a goal mouth protest.  Well, for that kind of money
it must have been *SOME* protest?

Any details would be greatly appreciated...

'Saw

PS For those not familiar, Neville Southall is Everton's keeper and
   one of the best in the English League...

    Well, ten weeks of the season are behind us and the top of the 1st
    Division has that familiar look to it....
    
                        Pl	W   T   L    pts
    	1. Liverpool    10	9   1   0    28
    	2. Arsenal      10	7   3   0    24
    
    Tottenham are looking good in third place, but they have financail
    worries and the surprise team at the top is fourth placed Crystal
    Palace who are also unbeaten.
    
    Disappointments so far this season are:
    
    		Aston Villa
    		Nottingham Forrest
    		Chelsea
    
    all of which had high pre-season expectations.
    
    
    
    The seasons first show-down is sheduled for December 2nd
    
    		Arsenal v Liverpool
    
    I'll give you a first hand report from ringside on the 3rd.
    
    PJ

Damn!

I've had no news on the league since this note.  I was hoping
'pool could break Tottenhams record of 11 straight wins to start
the season.

Oh well, can't complain.

Hey, PJ, nothing better than a good old shoot-em-up gunfight, eh?

Go Reds!

'Saw

    'saw,
    
    They came close, but were held to a 1-1 draw against Norwich last week.
    
    PJ

PJ --

Coverage in The Hartford Courant has been spotty at best, and 
VOGON has not been putting in the tables.

However, I'll take a 9-0-1 record after ten games any day....

'Saw

    League match played yesterday....
    
    		  Spurs 1- 3 Liverpool

>    League match played yesterday....
>    
>    		  Spurs 1- 3 Liverpool

Oh yeah!

I knew they played, but my paper give partial scores (like every other
Division 1 score except for Liverpool)....

Gee, you don't think that Strage is paying off the Hartford Courant,
do you????

Go Reds!!!!

'Saw

    Spurs - Liverpool was played Sunday afternoon so it could be televised
    live.  All other League games are played on Saturday afternoon that's
    why it wasn't in the Hartford Ragsheet!! ;-)
    
    The game was typical Liverpool...(and 'saw I will admit that as an
    Arsenal fan it made me nervous)  Liverpool didn't look very impressive
    and yet managed to beat a good solid team (with Gary Lineker and Paul
    "Gazza" Gascoigne) 3-1.  Furthermore, they managed to do it without
    John Barnes who left after 15 minutes with a thigh injury.
    
    Anyway, all attention is now firmly focused on Sunday Dec. 2nd
    
    		Arsenal V Liverpool	(The Showdown!!)
    
    I have my ticket and wild horses couldn't keep me away..
    
    The standings look like this:
    
    			Pl	W	L	T	Pts
    1. Liverpool	11	10	0	1	31
    2. Arsenal		11	8	0	3	27
    3. Spurs		11	7	1	3	24
    
    
    PJ  (Phantom sportswriter for the Hartford Ragsheet)

PJ --

Reading Monday's paper late in the day, it was included in there.

Thanks for the update.

Beating Spurs is a good accomplishment.  For those that don't know
both Lineker and Gazza are on the English National team as well,
and are superb players.

How long is Barnes to be out?

Did Rush score?  How's he playing these days?

Go Reds!

'Saw

    Barnes will probably be out a few weeks (they'll probably rest him
    until the Arsenal game).  Rush scored against Spurs, but couldn't find
    the net against Manchester United in the Cup competition.
    
    In case you missed it, 'saw,  Manchester United beat your Reds 3-1 in
    the Rumbelows Cup in midweek.  Rush has not scored against Manchester
    United in 21 attempts and in the middle of the match (when a Liverpool
    goal might have changed the outcome), Rush missed an open net from
    about three yards out. (He managed to kick the ball over the cross-bar
    confirming that he really was jinxed!! at least against Man United.)
    
    How did Man United win so convincingly??  Two factors:  a) Man United
    played positive attacking football with lots of passing and shots on
    goal (just what the fans like to see) b) Bruce Grobellar had a
    miserable night in goal dropping crosses and getting caught off his
    line.  Arsenal take note.
    
    PJ

PJ --

Yes, I'd heard the news.  A friend and fellow Reds fan from Scotland
filled me in.

btw, is that the FA Cup????

Anyway, Grobelar always give me the willies when he's in goal.  I
get a little nervous.  Personally, my favorite is Southall....

Rush does appear to be snakebit against Manchester!


What's the news on Aldrige...is he still in Spain????

'Saw

    There are two cup competitions in the Britain... the Football
    Association (or FA) Cup and the League Cup. Both are single elimination
    tournaments and in both competitions there is a draw (from a hat) to
    determine which team you play in the next round.  (i.e.  Liverpool and
    Arsenal can get picked out of the hat to play in an early round even
    though they may be the best teams and ought to meet in the final.)  The
    reason for this is to give lesser clubs a chance of glory.
    
    Anyway the difference between the two competitions is that the League
    Cup is open only to the 92 league teams (and is open for sponsorship -
    hence the Littlewoods Cup last year and the Rumbelows Cup this year),
    while the FA Cup is open to all teams that are members of the Football
    Association (of which there are several hundred).  In the FA Cup,
    therefore, you have the chance of a non-league part-time club meeting
    the likes of Liverpool, etc.  Its a thrill for the little clubs and
    occasionally an embarassment to the big clubs!!  (Coventry City, FA Cup
    holders three years ago lost to non-league Sutton United the following
    year.)
    
    Is that clear??
    
    (like mud)
    PJ

Thanks PJ...  Yes, actually that is very clear, since this is
the first time anyone has ever explained it to me.

I was worried that the Rumbelows (what the hell are they?) Cup
might have been the FA cup, and thus would have spoiled 'pools
chances at the double they will surely win this year 8^)

thanks again...
'Saw

    'saw,
    
    The Reds were handed the League Championship on a silver platter
    yesterday by the pencil-pushing geeks at the Football Association.  As
    a penalty for a full team brawl against Manchester United a few weeks
    back, Arsenal have had TWO points deducted!!!  (and Manchester United
    have had ONE point deducted.)
    
    So the title race now looks like this:
    
    				P	W	D	L	Pts
    	Liverpool		12	11	1	0	34
    	Arsenal			12	8	4	0	26
    	Tottenham		12	7	4	1	25
    	Crytal Palace		12	5	6	1	21
    	Leeds United		12	5	4	3	19
    	Manchester City		12	4	6	2	18
    	Manchester United	12	5	3	4	17
    	Southampton		12	4	3	5	15
    
    
    The decision s*cks royally.  If you want to stamp out violence on the
    field, do it with fines and suspensions - don't distort the League
    Tables.
    
    Its a bad day in paradise, my friend.
    PJ

Yes, PJ, I saw that in VOGON....

I'm *very* disappointed.  This has not only hurt Arsenal, but Liverpool
as well.  I was so looking forward to the head to head fixtures coming
up as being a big factor in the race.

Now the damned league has diminished Liverpools title (which they
surely would have won on their own anyway....)  This makes
me mad....

Bummer!


'Saw

PS  I agree about the fines....

    A couple of nights ago, Tony Meola let in a sitter of a goal that
    knocked his team out of a domestic cup competition.  The fans got all
    over his case and he never really settled down.
    
    I'm not sure how much longer he's going to last.  The Brits are
    particularly brutal when it comes to ranking on 'Septics'.
    
    PJ
    
    
    
    
    All right I'll explain 'Septics'....It's cockney rhyming slang for an
    American....  Septic Tank = Yank  
    
    Got that??

�    A couple of nights ago, Tony Meola let in a sitter of a goal that
�    knocked his team out of a domestic cup competition.  The fans got all
�    over his case and he never really settled down.
�    
�    I'm not sure how much longer he's going to last.  The Brits are
�    particularly brutal when it comes to ranking on 'Septics'.
    
He's young.  He'll bounce back.  First seasons are alway a bitch.

I think of some that Grobbelar lets in every once in a while, and
have to chuckle.    
    
    
    
�    All right I'll explain 'Septics'....It's cockney rhyming slang for an
�    American....  Septic Tank = Yank  
�    
�    Got that??


Actualy, I've got to give the kid credit.  It takes a lot of guts to do
what he is doing.  

And hey, at least he made a team over there.  Don't see any of those
phenom British "American Football" players making the NFL....  [many 8^)!!!]


Go Liverpool!

'Saw

>>  And hey, at least he made a team over there.  Don't see any of those
>>  phenom British "American Football" players making the NFL....  [many 8^)!!!]
    
    
    
    'saw,
    
    Smiles [ 8-)!!! ]  accepted by me and all the Brit kickers who have
    graced the game  (e.g.  Mick Luckhurst (Atlanta Falcons)  although he's
    probably not the best example!!!)
    
    PJ

    Now some news on the League Season....
    
    Liverpool dropped two points at Anfield this weekend by managing a draw
    with Manchester City while closest rivals Arsenal waited until the last
    12 minutes of their game against Queens Park Rangers before scoring 3
    goals.
    
    In third place, Tottenham continue to do well...2-1 winners over
    Norwich and the surprise of the season, Crystal Palace won away against
    Southampton despite scoring an own goal after just 30 seconds!!
    
    
    The table now looks like this:
    
    			P	W	L	T	Pts
    	Liverpool	14	12	0	2	38
    	Arsenal		14	10	0	4	32 *
    	Tottenham	14	8	1	5	29
    	Crytal Palace	14	7	1	6	27
    
    		(* 2 points deducted by FA for disciplinary reasons)
    
    
    PJ

PJ --

I said PLAYERS!  Everyone knows kickers can't play to save their lives 8^)


Our fly-half is from England, and he's a phenomenal kicker.  (Although
I thought he kicked poorly in our loss to Old Blue).  He can't get a 
try out with any NFL team.  I don't know why, this guy can boot it a mile.
Actually, though, I suppose that's good, since we stil have his services....


Go Reds!

'Saw

               ARSENAL                  LIVERPOOL
    
    		-----			----------
    		    /			!	 !
    		   /			!	 !
    		  /_	   ----		!	 !
    		    /			!        !
    		   /			!        !
    	       ___/			!________!
    		
    
    
    Need I say more....
    PJ

Was it at Anfield?

I'm not worried.  Liverpool will still beat them to the Championship 8^)

I am glad that Arsenal decided to make it interesting....

But my hat is off to you for your team's effort,
'Saw

    Yesterday's 3-0 win was at Highbury.....
    
    	but as you know, 'saw, we can beat Liverpool at Anfield as well!!!
    
            (Remember May 1989...Liverpool 0  Arsenal 2)
    
    Regards,
    PJ
    (The rematch at Anfield is scheduled for March 2nd 1991)
    
    
    (Is it my imagination, or is this a two-man note!!)

    G'day, PJ.
    
    I read this note a lot, but I get most of my fitba info from
    BALZAC::FOOTBALL. My Favourite team in England is Everton. I know, they
    are having a rough year, to say the least, but now that Kendall is
    back, the Blues should be pointed in the right direction.
    
    I also get a kick out of the Huns & Tims rivalry, but there arent too
    many people who follow that in these parts. We had a few on our 7 a side 
    team out here, but they've all gone back to "Scoo'la". I miss the cries of
    "Ooonlookih!" (unlucky) when one shanks the baw off the side of the foot 
    and miss the net by 30 feet! 
    
    Cheers,
    
    Tom 
    

Tom --    

My favorite goalie is Southall...  I think he's quite a character.
Doesn't look the part, but plays well....

re Huns and Tims...

I'm real hazy on this...it would be Celtic - Rangers would it?  The
term Tims rings a bell but I can't quite place it....


'Pool will take the rematch, PJ, no doubt about it!

'Saw

PS  PJ, give me your interoffice mailstop....
    

    Yep, Saw,
    
    The Huns are Glasgow Rangers and the Tims are Celtic Glasgow. It's an
    old rivalry, about 100 years old. They play each other 4 times a
    season, as well as sometimes in the Scottish FA and Skol Cup
    competitions. The Cups are single elimination tournaments that involve
    all the lower teams as well. 
    
    It's a pretty fierce rivalry, sometimes getting ugly. One aspect is
    that  Rangers were a traditionally Protestant team, and Celtic were
    originally founded by Irish Catholic Priests in the 1880s. The lads
    over in the "fitba" conference get pretty wound up over this from time
    to time.
    
    Tom

And if I remember correctly, if you're an outsider attending the
match it's best not to wear blue (Rangers) or green (Celtic) colors.

There was also a big to do over Mo Johnston joining one of the teams
from the other, but it's been a while since I've been in the football
conference.....

And folks think that the Yanks-Red Sox rivalry is big!

'saw

    Right, be VERY careful not to wear the wrong colo(U)r shirt at an Old
    Frim game, unless you know which supporters will be in your section
    (better br SURE).
    
    The deal with Maurice (Mo) Johnston, one of the better strikers in the
    game,is that he player for Celtic about 5-6 years ago. He grew up a
    Celtic fan and said something like what a New Englander would
    say if he made it to the Red Sox. A few years later, he signed for tons
    of money with a French team, Auxerre, I think. He and his wife were
    homesick, and rumours of him returning to Scotland and Celtic were 
    rampant. He was suposedly all set to sign, but signed with Rangers 
    instead. The big to-do is that few Catholics have played for Rangers, 
    and Celtic fans feel betrayed.  Not to make an issue out of religion, 
    but it does exist there and there will always be the people in the 
    terraces singing ofensive songs, etc. BTW, after a year with Rangers, 
    the fans accept him as one of their own...  
    
    Tom

Yeah, Tom, I've decided that if I ever get over there, I'll
just where Red to the game, then everyone can get on me for 
being a Liverpool fan 8^)

It's great to hear that Mo is fitting in well with the Rangers.

I saw him score two goals against the French in a qualifying round
for the world cup and really enjoyed watching him play.  Also,
Layton (Leighton?) was unconscious that night with his saves, and
Nicol was right on also...what a game by the Scottish internationals...


'Saw

    That's great that you had the chance to see a game (and a "meaningful"
    International to boot) while you were over there. The last couple of
    times I was in Europe it was the off-season (summer). Finally this
    September I saw Diego Maradonna & Napoli thrash Juventus in the Italian
    SuperCopa 5-1 at the opening of the season. It was well worth the
    billion or so Lire the tickets cost from local scalpers. 
    
    Tom

>>    SuperCopa 5-1 at the opening of the season. It was well worth the
>>    billion or so Lire the tickets cost from local scalpers. 
      ^^^^^^^  
  
Jeepers Tom,

You must be a real fan to pay $10 million to watch 90 minutes of football!!

;{)

rick ellis

re .67:

Alas, Tom, I only had the privilege of seeing it live on French TV 8^(

But, compared to what we get to see here in the states, that was a 
big event.  And the game was phenomenal....

'Saw

    Slight exaggeration there, but just about everything in Italy WAS very
    expensive. We ended up getting the tickets from an Italian scalper
    outside the Olympic stadium, just before kickoff. We paid 80,000 Lire
    (about $37 each) for 2 pretty good tickets about halfway up, opposite 
    one of the goal lines.  
    
    This, believe it or not, was on my honeymoon, and I had to do some serious 
    convincing of my wife that it was worth it. My biggest worry was that the 
    game would be one of those boring 0-0 draws that are all too common in the 
    Italian Serie A.  She enjoyed the game so much that she was actually 
    disappointed when we couldn't get tickets for the AC Milan game 2 weeks 
    later, the day before we left....
    
    Tom

    Tom,
    
    Are you sure your wife enjoyed the game or the legs!!!
    
    PJ  (who's wife comments more on the legs than the game)

    Yeah, she did have a few comments to that effect. Then again, all of
    Italy was full of eye-opening people. For example, some of the outfits
    worn by women.... We're not talking out on the town for an evening, but
    women going to work in a bank or office dressed in the skimpiest
    mini-skirts I have ever seen. I never thought I'd see the day when my
    wife would be telling me to check out other women walking down the 
    street. Of course, there's NO way American women could get away with 
    dressing like that, certainly not to work. Of course, there were some 
    pretty sharp-dressed men there, too (just to give equal time). One guy 
    was leaning up against a railing, smoking a cigarette, wearing a baggy
    olive-green suit, no socks and leather shoes. He looked like a modern
    James Dean. He had an air about him that made you think that if you
    looked up "cool" in the dictionary his picture would be there...
    
    A very interesting country, to say the least
    
    Tom