Conference 7.286::sports_90

    Time to get myself into trouble again.
    
    A properly thrown overhand curve ball is thrown exactly the same
    way as a properly thrown football forward pass - and I don't mean
    that sidearm stuff Bernie Kosar and Doug Flutie throw either.  Bring
    the arm up straight behind the ear, follow through and snap the
    wrist.  That's how you throw an overhand curve ball.
    
    That works fine in theory except that young children don't have
    enough discipline to throw that way all the time.  They drop down
    to a 3/4 overhand motion, strain the elbow and in effect start throwing
    sliders.  That's where the damage comes in.
    
    There's no absolute age to start.  I would recommend no sliders
    or screwballs until late high school.  A straight overhand curve
    ball is up to the individual, his discipline and so forth.  Don't
    have the kid do it but have him throw a football and see how he
    handles it.  If he can throw a football with a proper motion and
    not strain his arm, then he *MIGHT* be ready to throw curves.
    
    It's not a good idea but it is possible.
    
    John

    As usual, John is correct.  A kid should not throw a competitive
    curveball until he is fully matured, I'd say 15 or 16 at the earliest.
    Otherwise, he's risky severe arm injury.
    
    NAZZ

    They should not be allowed to throw a curve ball or any other type of 
    breaking pitch until they get into High School. The coaches and parents
    should worry about teaching the kids how throw a fastball in any locat
    ion. They could teach the kid to spin the ball.
    
                                         WILL THE THRILL
    

    
       John,
         How do you throw an overhand curve beachball? At what age should
    you start gnawing on them? Is there a correct (or incorrect) way
    to shred a beachball?
    
    Diarrhetic minds want to flow!
    Bull~
    

    When I was 11 our little league all-star team had a kid who threw a
    mean knuckleball, when he finally lost it was cause someone hit a
    dinger off his (slow) fastball.

I had a friend in the fire dept who threw the meanest curve I ever
saw.  The reason?

He had lost the tip of his middle (bird) finger, in an industrial
accident.  His curve ball had wicked motion, and he had a great
slider too.  

I always told him to go try out, but he never did....

Chainsaw


PS  Don't try this at home... don't go cuttin' off their fingertips....

    
    Boston(ap)
        Boston Red Sox pitcher Jeff "Rainbow" Redman, the man many
    recognize as having the best curve ball in baseball, was tossed
    from last night's game following a bizarre incident.
    
        Suspected of doctoring the ball for years, he was approached
    by the homeplate umpire in the sixth inning and asked to empty his
    pockets.  He complained, then nonchantely complied, when the umpire
    noticed the tip of his finger from his pitching hand fall from his
    pocket.  He protested that he had put it there due to a blister,
    but he was thrown out anyway.
    
       The league president will review the incident to see if further
    disciplinary action will be taken.
        
    Dickster
    

    The correct age to begin teaching beach ball destruction is around
    18 months.  The teeth are then sharp enough, and everything goes
    in the mouth anyway! :-)
    
    A&W

    Dickster, you've really got to hand it to the home plate ump for
    fingering Redman.  I really hope the league office nails him this time.
    
    Dan

   	Agree.... to a point.

   	as the ninja said, the kids aren't developed enough, and not
   disciplined enough to throw it properly. I'd also say, even if they are
   disciplined enough to throw it properly, it is still a bad motion for
   them. The curve ball has a forward spin imparted to it (as opposed to
   the backward spin of a fastball. The wrist/elbow snap required to
   achieve that properly is not anything I'd recommend for
   muscles/tendons/cartilage which are still developing.

   	The problem you run in to is... the kids want to be cool, and
   they WANT to throw curves; so they're going to try to throw curves
   whether you want them to or not. It depends on the kid, but sometimes
   the lesser of two evils is this:

   After you get them pitching with some consistency, and they have a good
   smooth motion, coming over the shoulder, picking up the target, good
   concentration, etc.... and they start fooling with curves, sometimes
   I'll show them a modified curve (I tell `em it's a real curve), which
   is more wrist `twist' than wrist snap ( If you watch, most kids tend to
   throw somewhat this way anyway ) and the spin on the ball tends to be
   more sideways, so they might get a little bit of curve, but not the
   downward dive of the true curve ball. Later on, if they stay with
   baseball (and pitching) into high school, they'll find out how to throw
   a real curve ball. When they come back and razz me about not knowing as
   much as I thought, not even knowing how to `really' throw a curve ball,
   I laugh right along with them. I don't mind a bit, because me being
   kind of a dummy means they still have an arm to pitch with at age 17.

   Mike JN

�   I laugh right along with them. I don't mind a bit, because me being
�   kind of a dummy means they still have an arm to pitch with at age 17.

Mike JN, a true hero of our time 8^)

    We also do not allow our kids to throw curve balls for our 
    Little League team. What we do teach them, though, is to grip
    the ball on the seams and to throw hard. As their arm strength
    grows throughout the season ( they throw 60-75 pitches every other
    day ) they start throwing harder and the ball begins to " move "
    naturally as a result of the grip and the speed. They then think
    they're throwing a type of curve ball and every one is happy.
    Unfortunately, the season is much too short here and as the kids
    really start hitting a groove, the season's over and the process
    waits until mid-April of next year. 
    
    Bart
    

    John Olrud's father had, I believe, the best approach regarding
    curve balls.  He did not allow John to throw a curve until he was
    a Senior in high school.  Why?  First, for the often discussed
    health reasons.  But, also, he beleived John would learn how to
    pitch if he worked on location and changing speeds - taking something
    off the fastball and a straight change.  
    
    It seems to me more and more kids in the teen years are relying
    on trick pitches- the curve and do not learn how to effectively
    pitch- location & changing speeds.  
                                        
    

about the only trick pitch I'd teach a kid would be along the lines of the 
circle changeup. No stress on the arm and the changeup is a widely underused
pitch in high school /college. 

It becomes a formidable weapon when used properly....


Metz

Personally, there are many pitches I'd teach my son...

The first pitch is probably the Supermarket Produce Pickup.
Easily learned, the young man gets a bewildered look on his
face, walks up to a likely prospect, and asks her if she can
help him choose a ripe melon.  Seasoned experts prefer to
work with cucumbers and zucchini.


The next pitch is the Laundromat Underwear Scam.  Again
easily learned, the young man will get that bewildered look
again, walk up to a likely prospect and ask about the merits
of hot rinse vs cold rinse.  Seasoned experts will often times
try the dryer bait and switch ploy.


The change up is also easily learned.  Take the young pitcher
to a bar.  Have him size up a likely candidate.  Now there are
two approaches.  First, is the brute force approach often
favored by short relief, which entails taking a known line
(every one knows he's gonna pitch heat, right) and making 
it work:  "What's a nice girl like you doing in a place like this?"

The second approach is the finesse approach oftern used in 
long relief, which entails some slick lines and sliding them
by:  "I know you... you were on Star Search last week?  Sure, that
had to be you...  No?  Well you should be..."


These pitches should only be attempted with thorough coaching.

Hope this helped,
Chainsaw

    
    I tried those pitches, 'Saw (in younger days, of course).
    
    Usually she would show me her best knuckler upside the haid.
    
    Dickster
    

    
    I should also explain that in the produce department I'd ask for
    help picking out a couple of melons.  When she'd ask "What size?"
    I'd look around a little bit, then go "Uhhh...let me see..", then
    I would point "Like those...yeah..about that size."  WHACK!!
    
    Dickster
    

    re-.1
    And don't pint to her "cheeks" either when answering the "What Size"
    question.
    
    
    JaKe
    

   Rollin' Stephen.

   Another good line is Tina!..... You're not Tina.

   The way it works is... you walk up and yell `Tina!, and whip a major
   league (obligatory sports reference) lip lock on her. When you stop,
   you step back and say `you're not Tina'.

   That's all it takes. There will be lust in her heart. You will take her
   home, ravish her, fall in love, get married, have lots of kids, start
   getting migraine headaches, your daughters will turn to drugs, your
   sons are wastrels, your wife will run off with an unemployed Tuba
   salesman, you'll turn to drink, accidently burn the house down, the IRS
   will call you in for an audit, your mother will call you an idiot, so
   will your boss, you'll lose your job, become a hobo, work for food,
   arrested for vagrancy, chaingang ( and so on, and so forth )

   On second thought... maybe you just oughta walk up and slap the b*tch!

   Hope this helps
   Mike JN

  >>> arrested for vagrancy, chaingang ( and so on, and so forth )
    
    You forgot your marriage to "Bubba" in prison.

    Too, too young is dangerous. My cousin for example threw the meanest
    junk I have ever seen. He started in little league and started all the
    way through high school. Curves, sliders, drops and few things that I
    don't believe that we have ever found a name for. He threw in the 70-80
    mph range and had unreal control. He was scouted by the pros from the
    time he was in the 10th grade but after a very successful high school
    career, his arm was dead. He used coat his arm down with ATOMIC BALM
    and then pack it in ice but to no avail. Shame though, he was a lefty.
    
    
                                                           Nate
    

�    career, his arm was dead. He used coat his arm down with ATOMIC BALM
                                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^


(minor digression)

	Has anyone tried that new stuff from Kramer, RED HOT.  Holy
	Jalapenos Batman, is that stuff HOT....

'Saw

    I had a minor pull in track practice one day in HS. Our trainer put
    some Red Hott on mr leg and I continued practice. The stuff didn't seem
    to bad so'z after practice I was sore soI rubbed a little more on. BIG 
    MISTAKE!!! Dat stuff ended up burning so bad that I couldn't get to sleep 
    that night. We put that stuff in this one dude's jock before football
    practice. (yeh its been done before), anyway he didn't catch on until
    too late. By the time we was conditioning he was nearly crying aand
    threating to kill whoever got him. We was roolliinnnggggg!!1
    
    Dat stuff actually looks like there is chil in it.

One of our locks who plays on the first side, had hurt his neck.
He was trying to get ready for the game....

First he started with Mineral Ice, and rubbed that in.  Then he
went to Atomic Balm, and finished with Red Hot.  Unbelievable!

He never complained, and said that he actually wanted his neck
to burn....

Needless to say he played a helluva game!

'Saw