Conference 7.286::sports_90

Rookie of the Year:	Tim Hardaway - thanks for the big Olympic 
				No Effort, Dave.
Coach of the Year:	Pat Riley - he deserves it! ditto!
Most Improved Player:	Reggie Miller - he stepped up to the stars
Comeback POY:		Buck Williams - rescued from New Jersey
Sixth Player Award:	Ricky Pierce - top 6th man, unstoppable O
Defensive POY:		Akeem - led league in blocks, rebounds
MVP:			Magic Johnson - led the overacheiving Lakers
Biggest Disappointment:	Mark Jackson - came in out of shape, didn't 
				improve
Underacheiver:		Dale Ellis - radical ways for not playing
Overacheiver:		Muggsey Bogues - top 10 in assists, steals
Snake Bitten Team:	Cleveland - now Nance is out
Biggest Goat:		George Shinn - booed by the fans, he threatened
				to move his team to SC 
Strangest Move:		NY Knicks trading for Stewart Gray, giving 
				Charlotte (trade) Ruddy Keyes

TTom

Rookie of the Year:	David Robinson.  What he did before playing
			in the NBA don't mean squat!

Coach of the Year:	Chuck Daly.  Masterful job with Agguire.

Most Improved Player:	Tony Campbell.  Showed flashes before
			but was solid this year.

Comeback POY:		Kevin Willis.  With another team...

Sixth Player Award:	Ricky Pierce.  True sixth man.  No
			competition.

Defensive POY:		Dennis Rodman.  Every players nightmare

MVP:			Charles Barkley.  Magic a close 2nd

Biggest Disappointment:	I agree with Mark Jackson.  

Underacheiver:		Benoit Benjamin.  Any agressiveness and
			he'd be an All Star.  Even in the west.

Overacheiver:		Muggsey Bogues.  Inspiring.

Snake Bitten Team:	Clippers.  Were making their move when
			Harper was hurt.

Biggest Goat:		Donald Sterling.  Should retire the
			trophy.

Strangest Move:		NY Knicks trading Strickland for Cheeks.


				/Don

    Rookie of the Year:		David Robinson easily.
    
    Coach of the Year:		Forget Riley.  I could coach Magic Johnson 
    				to 50+ wins.   The Portland coach (Adelman?)
    				deserves Coach Of The Year.  And Jimmy
    				Lynam is a close second.
    
    Most Improved Player:	Reggie Miller ???  Perhaps but Hersey
    				Hawkins has picked his game up several 
    				notches and he's about to get fitted
    				for a division champeenship ring.  
    				Tony Campbell has carried the T-Wolves
    				this year.
    
    Comeback POY:		Buck Williams is a good choice but
    				nobody has come from farther "back"
    				than Sam Bowie.
    
    Sixth Player Award:		Ricky Pierce in a no contest.  But Ron
    				Anderson ain't chopped liver either.
    
    Defensive POY:		Akeem Olajuwon barely over Air Jordan.
    
    MVP:			Charles Barkley, the only player with 
    				the filberts to both talk *and* play a
    				monster game.
    
    Biggest Disappointment:	Mark Jackson maybe but Ralph Sampson
    				was a no-show again this year.  So was
    				Reggie Williams.
    
    Underacheiver:		Dominque Wilkins' act has gotten old. 
    				Kelly Tripucka had better be history
    				soon and the Hornets, of all teams,
    				have played *better* since Rex Chapman
    				was hurt.
    
    Overacheiver:		Muggsey Bogues has played his heart
    				out.
    
    Snake Bitten Team:		Has to be the Clippers aka "Knees R Us".
    
    Biggest Goat:		George Shinn.  What is it about owners
    				named "George" ???
    
    Strangest Move:		Anything the NY Knicks did.  From
    				Atlantic Division champs to 3rd place.
    
    Best Move:			Sixers trade to get Rick Mahorn.   In
    				an instant, "driving the paint" became a
    				bad move again.  Mahorn's a winner.

    Bob Hunt

    Rookie of the Year:		David Robinson
    
    Coach of the Year:	        Jimmy Lynam
    
    Most Improved Player:	Tony Campbell

    Comeback POY:		Sam Bowie
    
    Sixth Player Award:		Ricky Pierce

    Defensive POY:		Dennis Rodman
    
    MVP:			Three-way tie:  Jordan, Barkley, Magic.

    	Rookie of the Year: Yawn ... Dave whatshisname in San Antonio ... :-)
    	
    	Coach of the Year:  Tie between Pat Riley and Jim Lyman
	
    	Most Improved Player:  Reggie Miller, (Sincere I'm Sorry to
    	Tony Campbell and Rony Seikaly)
	
    	Sixth Player Award:  Rickey Pierce
	
    	Defensive Player of the Year: Dennis Rodman 
	
    	MVP:  Charles Barkey - by a hair over Akeem Olajuwon
	
	-------------------------------------

	Biggest Disappointment: Teams : Knicks, Warriors, and Hawks   
    	
    	Players : Chris Morris (Thanks to Bill Fitch), Mark Jackson
    
	Underacheiver: Mark Jackson, Dominque Wilkins, Bird in the 1st
    	half 
    
	Snake Bitten Team:  Clippers, hands down.
	
    	Strangest Move:  1) Harper for Williams and Ferry. IMO a stupid
    	move, wrecked chemistry. Ron Harpers don't come along very often.
        
    	2) Cheeks for Strickland - NY traded the wrong guard.
        
    	Best Move : Sixers getting Dawkins from the Spurs and Mahorn
    	for the Wolves.
    
    	All rookie team :
    
    	G - Sherman Douglas
    	G - Tim Hardaway
    	C - David Robinson
    	F - Glen Rice
    	F - Sam Mitchell
    

    Gee, Doc...these look *awfully* similar to Jackie McMillan's selections
    from the Sunday Boston Globe.
    
    Mark.

    Then Jackie must have lifted them from my original note in the CELTIC
    file last week ....

    
    This is from a article I read.  It really means nothing what each
    person means to thier respective teams, this is just for pure stats
    freaks.
    
    
    **note Def pnts was very complicated so I redid it.  Def is Blocks
      plus steals divided by number of games.
    
      
    
    PLAYER       PNTS (RNK)      REBS (RNK)     ASSTS (RNK)   DEF(RNK)
    BIRD         24.2  (5)       9.5   (5)       7.4   (2)    2.2 (6)
    JORDAN       33.7  (1)       6.7   (6)       6.3   (3)    3.4 (4)
    AKEEM        24.0  (6)      14.1   (1)       2.9   (5)    6.7 (1)
    MAGIC        22.4  (7)       6.6   (7)      11.5   (1)    2.0 (7)
    EWING        29.0  (2)      11.0   (4)       2.2   (6)    4.9 (3)
    BARKELY      25.1  (3)      11.4   (3)       3.9   (4)    2.5 (5)
    ROBINSON     24.8  (4)      11.8   (2)       2.0   (7)    5.6 (2)
    =======================================================================
    
    OVERALL PNT RNKING
    BIRD 18 PNTS  6TH 
    JORDAN 14 PNTS 2ND  
    AKEEM 13 PNTS  1ST PLACE STAT WISE!!!!  <<<<<MVP>>>>>
    MAGIC 22 PNTS  7TH AND LAST PLACE.
    EWING 15 PNTS  TIED FOR 3RD
    BARKLEY 15 PNTS TIED FOR 3RD
    ROBINSON 15 PNTS TIED FOR 3RD      
                                      
    
    
    AH WELL
    RB

    
    	Thanks a lot for those dastisticks.  I really think Akeem should
    get MVP this year but Barkley most likely will.
    
    sean

    
re: .8

Another way to look at it...

    PLAYER       PNTS  +    REBs  +   ASTs  +    DEF   TOTAL
    JORDAN       33.7  +     6.7  +    6.3  +    3.4 =  50.1 
    AKEEM        24.0  +    14.1  +    2.9  +    6.7 =  47.7
    EWING        29.0  +    11.0  +    2.2  +    4.9 =  47.1
    ROBINSON     24.8  +    11.8  +    2.0  +    5.6 =  44.2
    BIRD         24.2  +     9.5  +    7.4  +    2.2 =  43.3
    BARKELY      25.1  +    11.4  +    3.9  +    2.5 =  42.9
    MAGIC        22.4  +     6.6  +   11.5  +    2.0 =  42.5
    =======================================================================
    
Change:
Jordan 		2 -> 1
Akeem		1 -> 2
Ewing		3 -> 3
Robinson	3 -> 4
Bird		6 -> 5
Barkley		3 -> 6
Magic		7 -> 7

Another way to look at it...  Figure out the league averages at each
position for Points, rebounds, assists, and defense.  Measure each
player against the average player at his position.

Of course, this is all statistical...  so how do you factor in Jordan
needing double, triple and quadruple teaming... how do you factor in
leadership, how do you factor in prime time numbers... Answer - you
can't, not with statistics.
    

    
    For those who don't get the worcester rag they had some comments by
    Michael on the MVP award. He said if he had a vote he'd give it
    to Barkley. He then when on to say if he wins it he'll give it to
    Barkley to get Charles off his back. I was roooliinnn....
    
    I also find it refreshing that Michael doesn't give them smaultzy
    all american pie interview like well" golly gee it's really a team
    game and if I win it it's really an award for the team". Everybody
    on the face of the earth (Laker fans naturally excluded) know he's
    the best, why hide it.....
    
    mike

>           -< Charles, Michael, Akeem Yes! Ewing, Magic Malone NO! >-

Drop Ewing and you got one of the easiest to pick All NBA teams in a
while.

TTom

    re .10
    
    
    A FACT FILLED NOTE !!!!!!
    
    YES ! MIRACLES CAN HAPPEN !!!!!
    
    Gronowski, I salute you !
    
    
    The FACK WATCH has ended at 1 year, 134 days.
    
    This is Ted Koppel reporting ......
    
    We now return you to your regularly scheudled programming ...

    Funny, look at mr. groanowski's note, and Akeem is ahead of Ewing
    by a whopping .6 - boy, and listening to all the anit-Ewings in
    here, I would have thought Akeem had 2 or 3 times as many rankings
    points as Patrick.   I don't either deserves MVP.  I think only
    two folks have a shot - Barkley is my #1 hero, and should win it
    all.  Magic is #2 because he's simply the best in the game.  Period.
    
    JD

    
    Sarge, Magic will always be second best. He was second best to Bird and
    now to Michael....He does try harder though I'll give him that...
    
    mike

    
    Mike... kind of like when Bird was second best to Bernard King a couple
    of years back but won the popularity award (read MVP) anyways?

    Mike,
    
    Sorry, Magic is better than Bird.  Always has been.  Bird, however,
    got the press attention earlier (the great white savior syndrome).
    And, I still feel Magic is better than Michael, but the gap is
    narrowing.
    
    Sarge..

    I wonder if Barkley is going to give both Magic and Micheal comp
    for the "best in the game" catagory. He can pass, play inside or
    outside, go coast-to-coast with and without the ball. And he's made
    major strides in the leadership area.
    
    I'd like to see a Sixer/Bull series, because I don't think that
    Magic is going to pass the scepter to Mikey real easy.... 

    .16�    Sarge, Magic will always be second best. He was second best to Bird and
    
    	If "Second" best means getting "FIVE" Championship rings! I can
    live with that...:*)
    
    B.A.

    
    Sarge, what kind of bull is this White man syndrome? It's a crock and
    you know it. Back when Bird won his three he was dominating games with
    his shooting, rebounding and passing. Magic at the time and the present
    was/is the best playmaker in the game, but couldn't hit an outside shot
    consistantly or rebound consistantly for that matter although the later
    does have something to do with the Lakers style. Magic has worked his
    butt off and now has a fine overall game but still isn't the player on
    both ends of the court that Michael is.
    
    Re. B.A.  I agree with you....look at Russell/Chamberlain.... 
    
    mike

    Mike,
    
    Sorry, I'll stick to my guns on this one.   How come Magic, or Jordan,
    or Akeem have never gotten "The Living Legend" covers on SI, or
    "The Legend COntinues"???  Yet Bird has.  I've always felt, especially
    in Boston, that Bird got more hype than he deserved, and I felt
    a  lot had to do with his color.  There was a lot  written in the
    late 70's and early 80's about the drop in attendence - with a lot
    of it attributed to the lack of white players, especially white
    stars.  Bird was the 'Great White Hope' of hoops.  Yeah, I'll get
    railed on this, cause folks don't like to hear it - but I remember
    in New York, the papers saying the fans wouldn't go watch an all-black
    Knicks team.  
    
    ANd Mike, I disagree with your assesment of Magic in the early days.
    Just look at his rookie year performance in the playoffs.  He was
    better than Bird in college, and has always been better in the pros.
    The east coast media helped Bird get more of the attention then
    warrented.
    
    My opinions.  So rail away folks.  I know it isn't nice to not talk
    nice about a demi-GOd.  But let me clear up some things - I think
    Bird is one of the greatest to ever play - always have.   Just never
    thought he was a god-like as he was played up to be - especially
    in Boston, where basically if a player can tie his shoes and chew
    gum at the same time, he's an all-time greatest.
    
    JD

    And Boston is the ONLY city on the planet that overrates its sports
    heroes, right?  
    
    					Steve

JD,

I have to disagree about Magic always being better.  I think Magic has
moved himself into the position of "Best Player Ever" for the past few
years, but I still think Bird at his peak was a better player than Magic.

Bird at his best was a better scorer, better rebounder, and equal passer
in the half court.  Magic at his best was always a better open-court
passer, defender, and creator on offense.  

Comparisons of their college careers are not worthwhile.  Magic had a
MUCH better supporting cast, a better program, and a better coach.  What
Bird did with Indiana State in 1978-79 will never be done again.

If Sports Illustrated doesn't do a Magic as living legend feature, who's
at fault?   It's not like they don't gush at any available opportunity
over the Lakers.  Writer Jack MacCallum is the West Coast equivalent of
Bob Ryan... 

    
    JD, it's obvious that you and I cannot control the media and the hype
    that goes with it and there is some truth to what you say but I'm looking
    at them as two ballplayers period no color involved and Bird at his
    peak was better. Stats aside at the end of the game when it was on the
    line Bird was the man taking the shots, in LA it was Kareem. Yes Magic
    did have a monster game to win the finals in his rookie year but that's
    one game in one year. MVP is for a season's worth of accomplishments
    and Bird had em'....
    
    Now Michael does.....
    
    mike

    MIke, Magic has won more than his share of games. Don't penalize
    him because the Lakers had so many options to choose from. Bird
    was and is great - but he did get a ton of x-tra press based on
    the White Hope/Messiah factor. Witness the SI deification campaign,
    I swear, the testimonials were hip deep in brahma feces. Magic gets my 
    vote because he can play every position on the court well enough to
    beat you. Kareem took the big shots because the Lakers were structured 
    that way before Magic arrived, and Kareem had won a ton of games that 
    way while Magic and Bird were in elemenatry school. In the last
    few years, as Kareem slowed down, Magic saw the bal in cruch time,
    and he consistantly delivers. The Lakers needed more points, he
    did it. They needed boards, he did that. When he had to guard Karl
    Malone in a crucial seventh game, he applied the clamps well enough
    to contain him for an entire game. That's something nobody will
    ever accuse Bird of doing. You want to talk about crunch time, Magic
    has won 3 playoff MVP awards for the Finals. That's the ultimate
    in crunch time preformance. Enough said.
           
    DrM

    
    Nice points Doc, but just because Magic clamp Malone it doesn't make
    him all world defensively. Yes Larry isn't the greatest defender in
    the world one on one but he was/is a very smart defensive player
    in that he reads the passing lanes well and has always had a fair
    amount of steals. Yes I know reading the passing lanes equals a
    zone defensive scheme but hey aren't the Lakers know to be the best
    at that aspect of the game? :^)
    
    In retrospect I would say that defensively a slight edge to Magic
    (helped by the fact he's 6'9" quarding smaller men) Leadership
    equal, desire equal, offensive arsenal clearly in Bird's favor.
    Now versus Michael, Magic's only edge is Leadership........
    
    I do admit that Magic is one of the greatest players ever to wear
    sneakers and deserved the Player of the decade for his excellence
    throughout the decade but year to year against Bird and Michael
    he comes up second best in my book......
    
    mike 

    Mike,
    
    I give Bird the edge in outside shooting, period. But overall offensive
    arsenal goes to Magic, who can hit the 3-pointer, the hook, the
    drive to the lane.  Bird has one move (drive shoulder into opponent,
    shoot, wait for whistle.)  Both are excellent passers, with Magic
    being better overall.  Magic is a much better ball handler.  Both
    rebound well, I give edge to Magic because he rebounds better for
    a guard than Bird does for a forward.  Defensively, Bird may be
    the worst one-on-one defender in the league, and can only play zone.
    Magic isn't all-defensive, but is more versatile.  Both are leaders,
    both have desire.  I felt Bird deserved one MVP, but got the knee-jerk
    repeat vote.  In the early years, Bird got more hype because the
    Boston media gushed over his every move (Larry has bowell movement,
    no need to wipe, film at 11...).  The Boston hacks were constantly
    putting downthe Lakers and Magic.
    
    While the monument was being built for Larry, Magic was smiling
    away polishing his champeenship trophies.  Bird is one of the best
    forwards of all time.  Magic is the greatest guard of all-time,
    and perhaps the greatest player ever.
    
    JD

    Magic loves being in the limelight = perception of a great personality.
    
    Larry hates being in the limelight = perception of a lousy personality.
    
    Edge to Larry.
    
    Period.  :-)
    
    H�wk

>< Note 212.29 by SASE::SZABO "Freakin' Lunatics Club Cardholder" >
>     -< Magic will always live in LA (CBS land), Larry dies in the booni >-
>
>    Magic loves being in the limelight = perception of a great personality.
>    
>    Larry hates being in the limelight = perception of a lousy personality.
>    
>    Edge to Larry.
>    
>    Period.  :-)
>    
>    H�wk


Yeah, but you gotta hand it to a guy who lives in a place called
French Lick.....

>      <<< Note 212.28 by RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JO "velour,volvos,evian,Marky" >>>
>    
>    I give Bird the edge in outside shooting, period. But overall offensive
>    arsenal goes to Magic, who can hit the 3-pointer, the hook, the
>    drive to the lane.  Bird has one move (drive shoulder into opponent,
>    shoot, wait for whistle.)

	Please!  Let's talk career, not current season.  Magic was not
	a legit 3-point threat until a couple years ago.  Bird has been
	for a decade.

	And Bird's "one move" is the most anti-Boston biased crap I have
	ever read.   Totally inaccurate.   And I know you've seen him 
	play many times.   Bird shoots equally well with both hands...
	He doesn't draw that many fouls. {check the stats}... 


Then we have this example of logic:

>  Both are excellent passers, with Magic being better overall.
and
>    Both rebound well, I give edge to Magic because he rebounds better for
>    a guard than Bird does for a forward.

So how come Bird isn't rated better as a passer then because he passes 
better for a forward than Magic does for a guard.   Right?????  Or is
that logic flawed?   Magic got a lot of his boards cuz Jimmy Clang is
halfway to the other end before the ball hits the rim and cuz Kareem
couldn't grab anything that wasn't within arms reach.   Bird has had
McHale and Parish fighting for the boards with him for ten years.

>  Defensively, Bird may be
>    the worst one-on-one defender in the league, and can only play zone.

Again, you're talking this year.   Bird was second team all-defense 
early in his career.  I know, I know... it's because he's white.
Magic's edge in NBA defense {not in man-to-man by-the-rules defense} is
not that large... 

>In the early years, Bird got more hype because the Boston media gushed 
>over his every move 

East coast elitism paranoia strikes again... to think that Bob Ryan
and Dan Shaughnessy and the hacks from the Herald somehow can influence
a nation of sportswriters and fans is absurd.    And I suppose the West Coast
media were objectively critiquing Magic and never once hyped him up?
Let's be real.   Bird got what he deserved.  Magic got what he deserved.

    Re:  last few (too many..)
    
    Hey.. take this to the soapbox note.  You can argue till your blue in
    the face before anybody agrees who is better.  Magic or Bird?  Or is it
    Nicholson?  How many times has this topic been beaten to death?  Is'nt
    it enough that we are fortunate to see two players of the calibre of
    Magic and Bird playing in the same era?  Just enjoy them..
    
    Sameer

    Van Halen > Clapton!

    
    hey atleast we're talking sports not giving gramma lessins  ;^)
    
    Thanks Doug no need for me to rebut Sarge, I'd only rehash what
    you've said....
    
    mike

    Doug,
    
    IN the late 70's through the mid 80's, many of the national rags
    had Boston-bred folks in high positions.  The head editor of Sports
    Illustrated was a BC alum - and the fack thaBird, and yes, Flutie,
    made the cover so many times was attributed to the "Boston connections"
    A few other mags had Boston bred folks in high positions (I believe
    TSN, SPORT were the ones....) so yes - the influence was there.
    
    All around, Magic's game has been better than Birds - as I stated.
    Magic's passing game is much better than Bird's.  Larry's game hasn't
    improved at all in the pros.  In fact, it has steadily declined.
    He still gets triple-doubles, but he averages 42% from the floor
    when he gets them.
    
    It is nice to know that after all these years, even the slightest
    criticism of Larry brings the wrath of the Jihad to the forecourt!
    
    JD

>       <<< Note 212.36 by RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JO "Tack it on the headboard" >>>
>    IN the late 70's through the mid 80's, many of the national rags
>    had Boston-bred folks in high positions.  The head editor of Sports
>    Illustrated was a BC alum - and the fack thaBird, and yes, Flutie,
>    made the cover so many times was attributed to the "Boston connections"
>    A few other mags had Boston bred folks in high positions (I believe
>    TSN, SPORT were the ones....) so yes - the influence was there.

	So how did these people attain those positions?  Is it some
sort of conspiracy?   I don't buy it for a second.   Everything you
say is an attempt to denigrate Larry Bird's career as some sort of
media hoax.    Magic has been on the SI cover as many times as Bird.
That's a fact.   The fact that Bird had the word "legend" associated
with his cover is trivial.   Both Bird and Magic are NBA legends.
    
>    Magic's passing game is much better than Bird's.  Larry's game hasn't
>    improved at all in the pros.  In fact, it has steadily declined.
>    He still gets triple-doubles, but he averages 42% from the floor
>    when he gets them.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.   Bird's game hasn't improved in the pros??   C'mon.  
Let's be real. Bird had several seasons of improvement, then steadied off 
for several years  before starting SLOWLY down.

You still haven't clarified your position of Magic as a better rebounder
because he's a guard but Bird is worse passer cause Magic is a guard. {?}

And maybe you should check the latest FG% for Bird and Magic... I think
Bird is at 47.8 and Magic is at 48.1.   World of difference there, huh?
Magic must be throwing down some 40% nights, too.

>    It is nice to know that after all these years, even the slightest
>    criticism of Larry brings the wrath of the Jihad to the forecourt!

It's nice to see that your constant anti-Boston bias is still available
for our amusement.

    Doug,
    
    Never attempted to denigrate Bird's career - I've stated numerous
    times that I like Bird, and consider him one of the greatest of
    all time.  I simply haven't gone on a poisonous vendetta - ala your
    James Worthy bashing.  
    
    Why do I consider Magic a better passer and rebounder?  He's a better
    passer because he's the best point guard to ever play.  He sees
    the floor better.  He handles the ball better.  Bird is close, with
    giving him extra points for being a forward, but I still give the
    better passer to Magic.  Magic is a better rebounder than Bird,
    IMO.  Again it is close, but IMO Magic is better.   I still contend
    that Magic at his best is better than Bird, and Magic at his worst
    is better than Bird at his worst, and Magic on the average is better
    than Bird.  This is a slight criticism, because I consider Larry
    #2, though I do feel his game is slipping, especially the outside
    shot.
    
    And as for the anti-Boston shot - Ha.  I don't partake in the
    "Anti-Celtics note", I don't call the Celtics childish names.  I
    don't spout "Anybody but the Celtics" p_names or titles.  I don't
    bash the Celtics every day.  I applauded and defended the pick of
    Reggie Lewis - a player you denigrated when the Celts picked him.
    My anti-Boston bias, as you put it, simply stems from the fact that
    I don't have an erection every time Larry Bird breathes.  
    
    And Magic isn't my favorite hoop player, either.  That belongs to
    Charles Barkley.
    
    My biggest crime, in the eyes of the all-knowing, fair, and
    knowledgeable Boston fans is that I haven't joined the Holy Church
    Of Celtics, which worships at the alter of Red, and puts forth Larry
    as the God of hoops, among the apostles of Cooz, Russell, and
    Havlechek.
    
    
    JD

    
>    And as for the anti-Boston shot - Ha.  I don't partake in the
>    "Anti-Celtics note", I don't call the Celtics childish names.  I
>    don't spout "Anybody but the Celtics" p_names or titles.  I don't
>    bash the Celtics every day.
    
    Yo, what's wrong with that JD ? You was in the original one. Besides,
    it's all in fun and we seem to hold many of the same views ....
    
>    I applauded and defended the pick of Reggie Lewis - 
    
    Likewise .... he's a good player.
    
>    My anti-Boston bias, as you put it, simply stems from the fact that
>    I don't have an erection every time Larry Bird breathes.  
 
    Ditto ! Boy that *must* be painful for the Green Dockers ...
 
>    My biggest crime, in the eyes of the all-knowing, fair, and
>    knowledgeable Boston fans is that I haven't joined the Holy Church
>    Of Celtics, which worships at the alter of Red, and puts forth Larry
>    as the God of hoops, among the apostles of Cooz, Russell, and
>    Havlechek.
 
    We are partners in crime - therefore it is my Holy Mission to keep
    the Anti-Celtic feelings alive, so that I can bring balance and
    objective anaylsis to the scum of the LB Jihad ...
    
    Dr Midnight

Okay, JD, let's get back to this one:

>Bird has one move (drive shoulder into opponent,shoot, wait for whistle.) 

According to today's paper, Bird finished the season with 718 FG and 
319 FT.    Do you know which NBA player in the top 50 scorers was the
ONLY player to have MORE free throws this year than baskets?  Do you
know? Do you know?   That's right... Magic "Awwww-Ref!" Johnson. 
546 FG and 567 FT.   Nobody else got the calls Magic got.  Not even
Moses Malone, who lives at the free throw line, could score more
FT than FG... 517 FG to 493 FT.     

Magic is as much a media darling as Bird... in fact, I bet you won't see
Larry on Carson, Arsenio, or any other talk show.   Magic is a self-promoter.
Larry is promoted by others.

>                       -< Will the circle be unbroken? >-

By and By, Lord... by and by...

>>    bash the Celtics every day.  I applauded and defended the pick of
>>    Reggie Lewis - a player you denigrated when the Celts picked him.


That's only because you're a Northeastern homer, JD ;^).

    Doug, 
    
    Makes sense, since Magic drives to the hoop and handles the ball
    alot, unlike Larry who, when I've seen him, has been mostly outside.
    Also, I see Larry chucks the ball up a lot more than Magic.
    
    Back ot all-around play - while BIrd has spent his career guarding
    the likes of Marc Ivoroni and other stiffs, Magic has been guarding
    Karl Malone and other stars.  Why?  Cause Bird couldn't stop a slug
    from driving to the drainpipe.  Bird was blessed by playing with
    Maxwell, McHale and Parrish, along with DJ - all good defenders
    that made it easy for Larry to freelance.
    
    Back to the free throws - who led the league in attempts?  Karl
    Malone or Barkley?
    
    JD

    There was some sort of quote from Michael Jordan over the weekend
    that talked about why he doesn't get worked up about the MVP award.
    This award has never been defined in his opinion.  Is it for the
    most stylish player, or the player that makes his team better, or
    the best player?  And, how do you define best?
    
    Hearing the arguments about Bird vs Johnson still reminds me of
    the Russell vs Chamberlain discussions.
    
    John

�                     -< Pfeiffer+Bissett>Derek+KellyBundy >-

    
Tracy Griffith is the true Goddess of Film these days.  Check out
her powerful performance in "The First Power" with Lou Diamond Philips.

Blows Pfeiffer, Bisset, Derek, *and* Kelly Bundy AWAY!!!!

You heard it here first...
'Saw

>    Makes sense, since Magic drives to the hoop and handles the ball
>    alot, unlike Larry who, when I've seen him, has been mostly outside.
>    Also, I see Larry chucks the ball up a lot more than Magic.

	But there are plenty of other players who drive to the hoop
	or live under the hoop who couldn't get as many free throws
	as field goals... So does Magic excel at drawing fouls or
	is he getting some home-cookin'?    

>    Back ot all-around play - while BIrd has spent his career guarding
>    the likes of Marc Ivoroni and other stiffs, Magic has been guarding
>    Karl Malone and other stars.  Why?  Cause Bird couldn't stop a slug
>    from driving to the drainpipe.  Bird was blessed by playing with
>    Maxwell, McHale and Parrish, along with DJ - all good defenders
>    that made it easy for Larry to freelance.

	So why wasn't James Worthy guarding these guys?  Bad defense?

	Which of A.C. Green, Kareem, Michael Cooper, Kurt Rambis,
	Worthy, and Byron Scott are inadequete defenders?   Who was
	Magic covering for?
	
	Magic had 26 more steals than Bird this year... 
	Bird  had 27 more blocked shots than Magic...
	Bird had more than 200 more defensive rebounds than Magic.

>    Back to the free throws - who led the league in attempts?  Karl
>    Malone or Barkley?

	Don't know.   Malone, David Robinson, and Jordan were the 
	only players who MADE more.   Magic made more FT than Barkley,
	but Barkley had a lower %, so he had more attempts.  Again,
	no other player had more FT than FG.

    
    Magic covers Malone once in life and that makes him the greatest?
    Cmon JD get with it. Magic has been covering the Spud Webb and
    Tiny Archibalds of this world heck of a lot more times than the
    Malones. Neither one of them plays hellva of a lot of defense that's
    what makes Michael so much better than the both of them.....
    
    mike

    
    'Saw, Kelly Bundy is but a child compared to Michelle Pfeiffer.

McHale had a better year than Worthy.

    Worthy had a better year than McHale.

    	Akeem had a better year than Ewing.

    Chicago, Boston, New York, Phiily, LA , Detriot, Utah, Portland,
    San Antonio, Denver, and Milwaukee all had better years than Cleveland.
    
    HTH,
    
    Dr M.

    
    Cleveland had a better year that DrM - 'nuff said!

    	David Robinson plays the piano better than Akeem or Ewing.

       Ralphie is a bigger stiff than Joe Baby Carroll.
                                  Denny

    Joe Namath was the greatest quarterback to ever use Noxema shave cream.
    
    HTH also.
    
    H�wk

>    Sarge, Magic will always be second best. He was second best to Bird and
>    now to Michael....He does try harder though I'll give him that...

I'm back now Mike.  You'd better cool it.

Dan

    Since this is the NBA Awards note, I felt it appropriate to mention the
    following:
    
    David Robinson was the unanimous choice for NBA Rookie of the Year.  I
    wonder how he'll do in the MVP voting.
    
    Triva question:
    
    Who was the last player to be unanimously named RoY in the NBA?
    
    Ralph Sampson
    
    Let's hope David has a better career than Ralph.

>    Let's hope David has a better career than Ralph.
    
    He already has ;-)

Are we talking NBA or overall career. In terms of the NBA, Ralph was hot
for a while, including the MVP at the All-Stars.

In terms of pre-NBA career, Ralph certainly had the better career which
included a NIT title and at least 1 final four trip (maybe another 1?).

And, lest we forget, the no-effort of the Admiral in the Olympics certainly
impugn his career to date.

TTom

    Sampson ...
    
    1980 NIT Title
    1981 Final Four
    1982 Sweet Sixteen
    1983 Great Eight
    
    Ah, what might have been ...
    
    Bob Hunt

Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Pistons' Rodman voted Defensive Player of Year

	AUBURN HILLS, Mich. (UPI) -- Detroit forward Dennis Rodman, who led
the Pistonsin rebounds and helped make the team the toughest to score
upon, Monday was   named NBA Defensive Player of the Year.
	``I wanted this award so bad,'' Rodman said, unsuccessfully trying
to blink back tears that began streaming down his face. ``It's a dream
come true.''
	Rodman, 6-foot-8, averaged only 8.8 points per game, but 9.7
rebounds a game. Detroit allowed just 98.3 points per game, the lowest
in the league.
	``I thought I should have won last year,'' said the fourth-year
player from Southeastern Oklahoma State. ``If I was 7-foot and blocked
shots, I would have.''
	A vote of writers in NBA cities gave Rodman the award, by a 49-35
margin over Houston center Akeem Olajuwon. Last year 7-foot-4 Utah
center Mark Eaton collected the honer.
	Detroit guard Joe Dumars and Dallas guard Derek Harper got two
votes apiece from the panel of 92 writers while Eaton, Chicago's Michael
Jordan, New York center Patrick Ewing and Milwaukee's Alvin Robertson
got one vote each.
	Rodman, who has guarded players ranging from guard Jordan to center
Olajuwon, made no secret of his disappointment at not winning last year.
	``I was a little bitter last year,'' Rodman said. ``I was saying
some things I shouldn't have said. But that's not unusual. So I said to
myself, `I've got to work hard. I worked hard last year but I wasn't
good enough.'''
	For the second straight season, Rodman averaged more rebounds than
points. He had grabbed more than 300 offensive rebounds for three
straight seasons.
	``We hang our hats on our defense,'' Detroit Coach Chuck Daly said.
``And who else would you hang your hat on besides Dennis Rodman?''
	``I wasn't a defensive player in college,'' Rodman said. ``We
played a 2-3 zone. But three years ago, I dedicated myself to this.''
	Daly said he figured the award would be won by Rodman, who moved
into Detroit's starting lineup midway through the season, or Olajuwon.
	``Dennis plays more people in a different way,'' Daly said. ``He
plays out on the floor, he plays post people. He's got a tremendous work
ethic. I wouldn't want to go out on the floor without him for offensive
rebounding and his defensive ability.
	``In a league where everybody doubles down, we're one of the few
teams that play people straight up. We're able to do that because of
Dennis.
	``You talk about a coach's dream, there are few players in the
league like him.''

From: [email protected] (DAVE ENGELDRUM, UPI Sports Writer)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Seikaly wins NBA's Most Improved Award
Date: 9 May 90 01:01:58 GMT
 
 
	NEW YORK (UPI) -- Rony Seikaly gave up sipping pina coladas on
Grecian shores for the weight room and the basketball court last summer
and he was rewarded Tuesday with the NBA's Most Improved Player Award.
	Seikaly, the 6-foot-11 center of the Miami Heat, narrowly defeated
Indiana guard Reggie Miller in voting among 92 media members covering
the NBA.
	Seikaly received 37 votes to Miller's 30. Minnesota's Tony Campbell
was third with 13, followed by Phoenix's Jeff Hornacek with four,
Philadelphia's Hersey Hawkins with three, and Chicago's Scottie Pippen,
Phoenix's Mark West, Philadelphia's Derek Smith, Dallas' Roy Tarpley and
Indiana's Detlef Schrempf with one apiece.
	Seikaly was the ninth pick of the 1988 NBA draft out of Syracuse,
but struggled as a rookie in 1988-89. Part of his problem was he had no
veteran guidance on the young expansion team.
	``I had a very rough rookie year because there was no veteran ahead
of me I could learn from,'' Seikaly said. ``So I had to learn on my own.
I'm patient. I'll get better with time.''
	Though Seikaly averaged 10.9 points and 7.0 rebounds a game for his
first season, the NBA's better centers took advantage of his
inexperience and outmuscled him.
	So Seikaly took on the challenge of bettering himself in the
off-season. Instead of vacationing in Greece where he went to high
school, he worked on his upper-body strength, his free-throw shooting,
and his inside moves.
	``It was something I decided to do myself,'' Seikaly said. ``I
could have spent the summer on the beach drinking pina coladas, but I
didn't do that.''
	Seikaly was one of the top centers in the league this season,
leading the Heat in scoring by averaging 16.6 points and finishing sixth
in the NBA in rebounds with 10.4 per game. He also improved his field
goal percentage from .448 in his rookie year to .502 this past season.
	Seikaly also benefited from a reuinion with point guard and former
Syracuse teammate Sherman Douglas this season. With this formidable duo
lies the future of the Miami Heat.
	It appears that Seikaly's days at the beach will be few again this
summer. He said his next goal is to repeat as most improved next year.
	``If I had my game all set now, I think I would be tired of
playing. I would have nothing to strive for,'' he said. ``There are so
many aspects I still have to improve on. I'm still learning.
	While he continues to improve and learn, his opponents can only
wait, and shudder.
	Runnerup Miller, in his third season, finished eighth in the NBA in
scoring with 24.6 points per game -- an improvement of 8.6 ppg over 1989.

    What a crock!
    
    I can personally attest to the fact that Seikaly *still* spends
    his summers sucking down peni coliti (tm) on the beaches.
    
    Mark.

�    his summers sucking down peni coliti (tm) on the beaches.
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^

Is that anything like Milli Vanilli?

    
    And ya know, as far as hunters go, Nimrod was a good one, but even
    on his best day he couldn't carry Orion's jock strap.
    
    Now, further down the list is my personal favorite, Diana.  I'd
    take her into the woods and let her hold my quiver any day.
    
    Dickster
    

    
    Hmmm...somehow got lost in the wrong reply.  Oh well, youse guys
    can figger it out.
    
    Embarassed Dickster
    

From: [email protected] (United Press International)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA Coach of the Year winners
Date: 15 May 90 00:03:15 GMT
 
 
	1990 -- Pat Riley, LA Lakers
	1989 -- Cotton Fitzsimmons, Phoenix
	1988 -- Doug Moe, Denver
	1987 -- Mike Schuler, Portland
	1986 -- Mike Fratello, Atlanta
	1985 -- Don Nelson, Milwaukee
	1984 -- Frank Layden, Utah
	1983 -- Don Nelson, Milwaukee
	1982 -- Gene Shue, Washington
	1981 -- Jack McKinney, Indiana
	1980 -- Bill Fitch, Boston
	1979 -- Cotton Fitzsimmons, Kansas City
	1978 -- Hubie Brown, Atlanta
	1977 -- Tom Nissalke, Houston
	1976 -- Bill Fitch, Cleveland
	1975 -- Phil Johnson, Kansas City-Omaha
	1974 -- Ray Scott, Detroit
	1973 -- Tom Heinsohn, Boston
	1972 -- Bill Sharman, Los Angeles
	1971 -- Dick Motta, Chicago
	1970 -- Red Holzman, New York
	1969 -- Gene Shue, Baltimore
	1968 -- Richie Guerin, St. Louis
	1967 -- Johnny Kerr, Chicago
	1966 -- Dolph Schayes, Philadelphia
	1965 -- Red Auerbach, Boston
	1964 -- Alex Hannum, San Francisco
	1963 -- Harry Gallatin, St. Louis

From: [email protected] (United Press International)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: 1990 All-NBA Team

                            First Team
	Forwards -- Charles Barkley, Philadelphia; Karl Malone, Utah.
	Center -- Patrick Ewing, New York.
	Guards -- Magic Johnson, LA Lakers; Michael Jordan, Chicago.
                           Second Team
	Forwards -- Tom Chambers, Phoenix; Larry Bird, Boston.
	Center -- Akeem Olajuwon, Houston.
	Guards -- John Stockton, Utah; Kevin Johnson, Phoenix.
                            Third Team
	Forwards -- James Worthy, LA Lakers; Chris Mullin, Golden State.
	Center -- David Robinson, San Antonio.
	Guards -- Clyde Drexler, Portland; Joe Dumars, Detroit.

joe dumars over isiah...  Great, joe definitely deserved it.  however, i wonder
how Isiah accepted this, especially in light of his stupid statement the other
day, the one about terry porter being the only opponent who could possibly match
his skills.

    Isiah probably accepted it well - after all Dumars is his *teammate*
    .....

    Isiah said Porter was the only opponent in the playoffs... I think
    he probably handled it well... good to see others get the due the
    deserve....

    Magic Johnson was awarded the CBS/Miller Lite Player of the Year this
    past Sunday during halftime of the Portland/Detroit game.