Conference 7.286::sports_90

TOLKIN::FARLEY "Have YOU seen Elvis today??"         57 lines  19-JAN-1990 07:57
                    -< Boston and NYC marathons are GONE! >-
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    Since we don't have an OFFICIAL TRACK & FIELD note
    (JD you're slipping:^)! I figured that this note is the right place
    to state some facts and do a little SOAPBOXing.
    
    A couple of days ago, Wednesday perhaps, The Athletic Congress (TAC),
    one of the governing bodies for international (US only?) track and
    field  made a horrendous announcement regarding the Boston and NYC
    marathons.
    
    In a nutshell, both races have lost their sanction as a valid race!
    For Boston, this means that 93 years of racing doesn't exist in
    the books.  Bill Rodgers 2:09.x record set in 1979 has been stricken.
    Alberto Salazar's 2:08.x is gone also.  According to the new "rules",
    the fastest marathon time ever run by an American is now 2:10.x.
    
    TAC's rationale for their decision is based upon two facts.  First,
    they want to sanction only "loop" type races where the starting
    line and the finish line are in the same place.  Boston and NYC
    are point to point type races.  Boston starts in the town of Hopkinton
    and ends in Boston; NYC start at the Verrazanno bridge and snakes
    through each borough until it ends in Central Park.  
    
    If that weren't stupid enough, TAC also blew Boston away by claiming
    that the total vertical drop from start to finish exceeds 1 meter
    per mile, the standard they figure prevents downhill courses from
    being overly "fast" (park effect?).  I guess Heartbreak hill has
    been redefined into a "non-significant" part of the race.
    
    <FLAME ON>
    
    Throughout the world, marathoning interest is at an all-time high
    and has got to be directly attributable to Boston's existence. 
    It's the grandaddy and founder of the sport.  How in holy h*ll
    can those sanctimoneous desk jockies just erase Boston and make
    like it NEVER existed??????
    
    What's next?  Striking Bob Beamon's long jump record because it
    was set at altitude and the air was less dense thereby allowing
    Bob to go further?  Scientifically it may be true perhaps by as
    much as a billionth of a percent but Chr*st, get real!!!
    
    <Flame Off>
    
    Boston and NYC are appealing this and I understand it will be held
    sometime in the next 3 weeks.
    
    Anyone who has ever run the Boston or NYC marathon may no longer
    tell people this because according to TAC, these races never
    existed so the 2, 3, 4 or 5 hours you may have spent challenging
    yourself must now be relegated back to only a dream or a hallucination.
    
    sorry folks.....
    
    
    
    Kev_OW(tm)
    
    

SASE::SZABO "Shake those honeybuns!"                 10 lines  19-JAN-1990 08:14
                  -< words can't describe such stupidity.... >-
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    I agree that this is totally, totally ludicrous.  To install these new
    rules is dumb enough, but to apply these rules as "retroactive" to all
    marathons ever run is just beyond my comprehension.
    
    If this all sticks, it'll be a severe blow to the ever-increasing
    popularity of marathoning.
    
    Someone please check on JD to see if he's still breathing.  :-)
    
    Hawk
    

STAR::YANKOWSKAS "Paul Yankowskas"                    6 lines  19-JAN-1990 08:17
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    Accoding to WBZ radio, this ruling appears likely to be overturned --
    if not at the appeal scheduled for March, then definitely at the TAC's
    annual convention in November in Indianapolis.
    
    
    py
    

================================================================================
MUSKIE::WIERSBECK "Nothing changes on New Year's Day" 6 lines  19-JAN-1990 08:55
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    This would also apply to the Twin Cities Marathon, which starts
    in Minneapolis and finishes in St. Paul.  I can't help but think
    this asinine ruling will be overturned.
    
    
    Spud
    

    First of heard of the ruling.  Not totally surprised.  A marathon
    is still marathon, as long as it adheres to one simple rule - it
    is oficially measured as 26.2 miles long.   Many races are TAC 
    sanctioned, many are not.  However, due to the popularity and prestige
    of the two races mentioned, it is a stupid move by TAC.  But then
    again, TAC grew out of the AAU, another organization long noted
    for assnine moves concerning American track and field.  As the power
    of AMerican distance running continues to wan, making a ruling such
    as this will only serve to bury American distance running that much
    faster.  Without sanctioning, both races will probably lose some
    competitiveness, but if the money is still there, the elite will
    still show, sanction or not.
    
    I assume it will be overturned.
    
    As for Boston being fast - the course does have an overall drop
    in elevation.  The only problems with the hills in Boston is where
    they come, and the pyschological factor of all the talk of Heartbreak
    hill.  There are much tougher marathons than Boston.  The start
    is basically downhill, and the finish is downhill.
    
    Please keep updates coming.
    
    I'll run Boston, sanctioned or not...
    
    JD

Using TAC's reasoning, the _original_ marathon, (you know, the one in Greece)
must have just been a run in the park. It sure doesn't qualify by the new
rules. If all they want is closed circuit track marathons, I imagine next
they'll nail the competitors left foot to the ground and watch him hop in
circles for 2 or 3 hours.

Pete

    As I "soapboxed" in the RUNNING_CLUB notes file, people I know tell
    me that a problem has existed for quite a while because TAC is
    dominated by track and field people, and they are jealous of the
    big bucks connected with marathons.  They have been known to stick
    it to the long distance running people for some time.  
    
    It appears, that after all this outcry, TAC is going to wimp out
    anyhow, and re-sanction the race at their next meeting.  I again
    wonder if money is playing a role in this decision.
    
    As far as being aided by the course is concerned, I agree that Boston
    is no the toughest course around, but it is still not a world record
    type course like (for instance) Rotterdam.  The late hills are tough
    psychologically, and coming down off them is tough physically.
    
    Worry not about the future of Boston or New York.  As long as Hancock
    keeps pumping dollars into the races, they will continue to get
    the big names.  I'll run it, JD will run it - who else do they need.
    
   =Bob= 

    To all you USA TODAY readers out there - I understand yesterday's
    paper had the results of the US X-country trials held this weekend.
    could somebody post them?  I couldn't find a word about them in
    the local papers.
    
    Thanks.
    
    =Bob=

    Bob,
    
    I was there.  Nah, nah, nah de nah nah...
    
    ;-)
    
    JD
    
    I have results at home, send me mail for specifics...
    
    Ed Eyestone won the Mens, Lynn Jennings the womens.  Digital's own
    Dennis Simonaitis was in the middle of the pace.  8-time defending
    champ Pat Porter finished 4th, and is declining a berth on the team.
    
    

    JD
    
    I'm ssssooooooooooo jealous!                   
    
    Porter finishing fourth is big news.  It's usually automatic with
    him.  Jennings was really gearing towards the race.  She must be
    happy.  Dennis felt very ready for the race, but in those races
    so much depends on the start.  If you get caught in the pack at
    the beginning, it's tough to get out.
    
    I'll send you a note for further info.  Thanks.
    
    =Bob=

      Hi,
         I throw the javelin, I'm wondering if there are any other
      javelin throwers or field event athletes within Digital?
    
      I'm in Ireland, and there aren't many javelin throwers here!
      So if you throw say 'Hi'.
    
      Cheers,
      Dara.

    Dara,
    
    Try contact Dick Joseph (QETOO::JOSEPH) for information.  Dick is
    the president of the Digital Running Club, which has roughly 350
    members world wide.  I know of one weight man named Dave Swann in
    Vermont - don't know if he is a javelin thrower.
    
    GIve Dick a try, he can probably help.
    
    JD

In HS I was too skinny to be a weight man, so I and several other
friends of mine used to specialize in JavelinCatching(tm).

It took consumate skill, faith in the thrower, and a keen eye and
quick hands.  Needless to say a mistake could be fatal.....

    Now that Frank is older, tho, he's specializing in Bull throwing.
    :*)
    
    Dara, if you have trouble contacting Dick, let me know.  We're at
    the same site, and I see him quite often.
    
    Lee

Lee, you hit it right on the head.

Bull throwing, like Javelin catching, or Discus polishing, is quite
a dangerous sport.  While a javelin only has one pointy-thing,
a bull has two, and can get a lot more agitated than your average
HS Javelin thrower...

    Bob M., and others -
    
    Here are the official results from the United States Cross Country
    Champeenships, held at Tyee Valley Golf Course, Washington.
    
    Trials were to pick the US Team for the World Champeenships, to
    be held March 24th in France.
    
    Senior Men (11,931 Meters)
    
    Qualifiers:
    
    1.  Ed Eyestone, Bountiful, Utah  33:39
    2.  Aaron Ramirez, Albuquerque, NM 33:49
    3.  Mark Coogan, Attleboro, MA    33:56
    4.  Pat Porter, Alamosa, CO       34:04 (declined Berth)
    5.  William Mangan, ALbuquerque   34:05
    6.  William Taylor, Mt. Pleasant, MI 34:08
    7.  Dennis Leck, Alamosa, CO      34:11
    8.  Terry Croyle, Morgantown, NV  34:15
    9.  Greg Whitely, Providence, RI  34:17 (replaces Porter on team)
    
    Senior Women (6,155)
    
    Qualifiers
    
    1.  Lynn Jennings,  Newmarket, NH  19:14
    2.  Sabrina Dornhoefer, Minneapolis, MN  19:58
    3.  Shelly Steely, Eugene, OR      20:03
    4.  Janet Smith, San Luis Osbisbo, CA 20:17
    5.  Leanne Martin, Provo, UT      20:22
    
    Automatic Qualifier:  Elaine Van Blunck 
    
    JD

  Thanks Jo, Frank, and Lee,   
                            I stepped off the planet for a few weeks!
  I'll drop Dick Joseph a line and see if he knows anyone else.

  Frank, I'm glad to see that JavelinCatching is a recognised sport over
  there as well!   We do it for distance over here!  My best is to catch a 
  javelin (thrown by someone I trust a lot!) from 100ft.  The best I know
  of is one caught at 160ft!  As yet I have not moved into the bull throwing
  ranks! -honest!

  Cheers,
  Dara.

Dara --

Bull throwing *is* a dangerous sport.  Contrary to popular opinion,
it is not necessary to be huge and brutish to throw a bull.  You
just have to be quick.

BTW, say high to your Uncle Will, and please have him write me
some new material.  In particular, I could use a good toast for
my brother's wedding...

Finally, if you get bored tossing the javelin, try tossing the
caber...it doesn't go as far, but it looks really cool!!!! 8^)

cheers,
chainsaw

    Here's the scoop.  My son (high school junior) is on the school
    track team.  He's running the 330 low hurdles, and the 100 high
    hurdles, and on the relay team.  And I don't get to go to many meets,
    'cause they run them after school, and I'm here when he's running.
    However, he's got an invitational meet on Sunday, so I'll be there
    in the stands.  And I'd rather be semi-intelligent about what I'm
    watching, instead of a total doofus.  Soooo...
    
    Any tips, pointers, things to look for, general 'expert commentary'
    type stuff for me?  I've got the basic knowledge level of your average
    Olympics junkie for what happens when - I know the layout of the
    track and about lanes and staggered starts and that jazz.  But what
    are some of the semi-fine points to look for?
    
    Much thanks.
    
    A&W
    

I'd look for him to finish before all the other contestants.  This is a move
known as "Winning" and most mothers usually look for that.

Hope this helps.

j.

    A&W, if you don't want to appear to be a total doofus, do not wear a
    mangled beach ball on your head.
    
    Hope this helps too.
    
    H�wk

    Here's what little I know about hurdling, A&W ...
       
    Basically, it is *NOT* a run-and-jump race.  The best hurdlers do
    not jump over the barriers, they stride over them instead.
    
    The number of strides that a hurdler takes between hurdles is
    *critical*.  The hurdler and his coach figure out how long his
    stride is and how much distance is between each hurdle.  Then they
    divide the two distances and come up with a "strides between
    hurdle" number.  So, say something like 15 strides between each
    hurdle.  On the 15th stride, up comes the right leg over the top
    of the hurdle, and then down comes the left leg.   Count 15 more
    and hit the next one.  And again and again ...
    
    Then they adjust it for length of the race.  In other words,
    start out fresh at 15 per and then as you get tired, go to 16
    strides per hurdle or 17 or ...
    
    When you see a hurdler hitting a lot of hurdles, it means he's off
    his count.   Could be fatigue, could be the wrong count, could be
    the pressure of the race itself.
    
    Edwin Moses had such a long and wonderful winning streak because
    he was able to run a complete 400m lap around the track with, I
    think, a 13 stride per hurdle pace.  The other hurdlers couldn't
    keep up with that.  That had to start at 14 and *maybe* stay
    there.  More often than not, they had to "downshift" to compensate
    for fatigue.   Moses kept on cranking at 13 (or whatever the
    number was) from start to finish and blew them all away.   He
    didn't lose a race for like 10-12 years.
    
    Hope this helps and best of luck in the meet.  Let us know how it
    goes, okay ???
    
    Bob Hunt

    
    It might also be fun to get hold of a video camera so after the
    race he can stick his face in the lens and shout "Hi, Mom", just
    like the professionals do.  And don't forget to pan to his index
    finger pointing in the air as he says "We're number 1", and then
    back to his face as he dribbles gatorade down his chin.
    
    Also, the hurdles are a good event to get footage of, because even
    if he doesn't win there may be some material there for "America's
    Funniest Home Videos."
    
    Good luck.
    
    Dickster
    

Do something for America....

- Look for the kids who are sweating the most.  These kids are definitely
  on crack.  Report them to the authorities.

- Check out the guys butts.  I mean, hey, if I was going to a H.S.
  gymnastics meet, you can bet I'd be checking out some Titles and
  Acquisitions, so, A&W, you should be doing the same.  If memory
  serves me correct, the pole vaulters are among some of the best
  built men on the field.  

- And whatever you do, don't get in the way of the javelin throwers.
  Javelin catching is a job best left to the professionals.

- Along with your videocam, take a porta-sound-system, and do you
  best Bweent Pussberger impression.  This will make a lasting impression
  on everyone there.  Give your son earplugs.  If you are really funny,
  the other runners will be laughing so hard, your son will win.

Hope these tips help....
Chainsaw

    A&W,
    
    Geez, soory I missed all of this.  Haw, haw.
    
    bob hunt made some very good observations.  Another thing about
    Edwin Moses, along with his stride, was taht he was ambi-leg-ous,
    that is, he could hurdle leading wif either  leg.  Not many do that,
    but Edwin did.  At one time he fooled around doing *12* strides
    between hurdles.   Bob is correct about hitting hurdles, it means
    your timing is off, and in the shorter hurdle races (110 M) it usually
    means you'll hit more than one.  
    
    Hope you had fun.   I watched the PAC-10 Champeenships, some *serious*
    ath-a-letes there.
    
    JD

    Randy Barnes ofthe USA set world Shot Put record a few weeks ago
    by putting the 16 pounder 75' 10 1/4", bearing Ulf Timmerman's record
    by 2 1/2"
    
    Barnes employed the spin method of shot putting, made famous by
    Brian Oldfield, who chucked the shot 75' over a decade ago, but
    he was deemed a 'professional' and his mark never was an official
    world record - though it was over  3' better than the old record
    of the time.  Oldfield was ripped off, big time, by a stodgy IAAF.

Watched the Boulder Boulder over the weekend.  One of the best things
I think to happen to women's running in a long time was the defection
of Uta Pipping to the West from East Germany.

Watching this woman is very refreshing, cause she's downright cute.  Nothing
against the great Rosa Mota, but hey, Rosa ain't gonna win any beauty 
contests.....8^)

So, Uta, this Bud's for you!

'Saw

The NCAA Track and Field Champeenships were held over the lasted weekend in 
Durham, NC.

Louisiana State won the meet with44 points, followed by Arkansas with 36
points, Baylor with 34, Florida with 33 1/2, and Oregon with 27.

Winners:

100M Leroy Burrell 9.94 wind=aided (set meet record wif 10.01 in semis - legal
wind)
200M Micheal Johnson, Baylor 20.31

400M Steve Lewis UCLA, 45.19 (Lewis 88 Oly. Champ, coming back from Injury.)

800M Mark Everett, FLoria 1:44.71 (Meet Record)

1500M Bob Kennedy, Indiana 3:40.42

3000M Steeplechase Mark Croghan 8:36.19 Ohio State

5000M John Trautman 14:07.77 Georgetown

10000M Shannon Butler 28:38.45 Montana State

110M Hurdles Chris Lancaster 13.60 Indiana State

400M Hurdles McClinton Neal 49.23 Texas-Arlington

4x100M Relay Alabama (Richard Beattie, Eduardo Bana, Bradley McCuig, Clive 
                      Wright)  38.87

4x400M Relay Baylor (Daniel Fredricks, Todd Thompson, Tonly Miller, Micheal
                     Johnson) 3:01.86

High Jump: Charles Austin 7' 7 3/4" Southwest Texas

Long Jump: Llewellyn Starks 26' 5 3/4" LSU

Triple Jump: Edrick Floreal 56' 6 12" Arkansas (Canada)

Shot Put:  Shane Collins 66' 3 1/4" Arizona State

Discus: Kamy Keshmiri 207' 1"  Nevada-Reno

Javelin:  Patrik Boden 261' 10" Texas (Sweden) (Set meet record 265'6" in
                                                qualifying rounds)

Hammer: Scott McGee 217' 8" Oregon

Pole Vault Istvan Bagula 18'4 1/2" George Mason (Hungary)

Decathlon: Drew Fucci 7,992 Points Southwest Texas

�100M Leroy Burrell 9.94 wind=aided (set meet record wif 10.01 in semis - legal
�wind)

What constitutes a legal wind?  Is there a certain mph that the wind
has to be above, and be coming from behind the runner to say wind
aided?

'Saw

    'Saw,
    
    I don't have my rule book, but a legal wind is any wind under something
    like 4.92 MPH (wind at the back, of course).   Any wind coming from
    the back over that limit is considered illegal, and any records
    set are not official records.
    
    
    As an aside, this was LSU second champeenship in a row, and they
    are already talking three-peat.  The Lady Tigers of LSU also won,
    for I beleive the 3rd straight year.
    
    It was heartening to see less foreign competitors placing the meet
    than in past years.
    
    jd

    
    >
>What constitutes a legal wind?  Is there a certain mph that the wind
>has to be above, and be coming from behind the runner to say wind
>aided?
 
    In addition to the regular run-of-the-mill drug testing for steroids
    and stimulants, they have now instituted a test whereby a runner
    is tested for beans in his system.
       
    The judges have determined that the eating of beans before a meet
    gives a runner an unfair advantage by producing artificial wind-aided
    results.  Also, the runners behind the leader have complained for
    different reasons.
    
    Dickster
    

the Prefontaine Classic was held last Friday in Eugene, Oregon.  This
meet is named for Steve Prefontaine, America's premier distance runner
(At 5K and 10K) in the early 70's, who died in an automobile accident.

Most notable performance was in the 5000meters, where Joe Falcoln ran the
year's fastest time in 13:20.49.

The 10000 meter was notable because the winner was a runner trying to
make a comeback.  A runner who from high school til about 5 years ago was the 
best distance runner in the US, and one of the best in the world.  A runner 
who two years ago had trouble jogging 5 miles due to injuries and other
ailments and problems.  That's right, Alberto Salazar is back on the scene
and he won the 10K in 29:09.22.  Good luck Alberto.

JD

    The NCAA, in it's infinite wisdom, is thinking of cutting down the
    number of track scholarships teams can give to 12 1/2, instead of
    the 14 scholarshps teams now receive.  
    
    NCAA Men's Champeenship Coach Pat Henry of LSU says"  We get 14
    men's scholorships, but we're looking to 24-26 athletes on the
    track. I hope they don't cut the number,  developing a team atmosphere
    in track and field is difficult enough with 14 scholorships."
    
    It takes a lot of personnel to fill a track team.  Any cuts will,
    IMO, force schools to go for more foreign athletes (esp. older,
    experienced athletes) to get 'more bang for the buck'.
    
    JD
    

NCAA :== {Salem Witch Hunt, Ebenezer Scrooge}

It's great that Salazar is making a comeback attempt.  It's about
time we had some great world class distance runners from this
country again.  

(Lord knows, Dinz and I can't do it all by ourselves,
right Dinz?  I have enough problems trying to run and chase
Uta Pipping at the same time!)

But seriously, I'll be glad to see the day when the US is again
a dominant force in distance running.


Chainsaw

    Why aren't U.S. runners winning more major marathons?  Following
    are the views of Bill Rodgers and Frank Shorter, IMO the two best
    marathoners this country has ever produced.
    
    Rodgers:  "Road racing has reached a plateau in our country for
    the last five years.  It hit a plateau because so many foreign athletes
    were brought into the sport by race directors.  Many American runners
    are forced to quit running because they can make more money in their
    regular jobs than they do in road racing, so they quit running and
    say,"Hey, I can't keep doing this.  The prize money is two low"
    
    Shorter:  "It's a matter of Americans just deciding to be the best.
     In order to succeed, one must find a spot to train and go there
    and focus in on that one thing.  American athletes are not doing
    that; they are staying in their small towns and trying to get good
    there.  EIhter Americans aren't very intelligent and aren't sure
    what they have to do to win, or they've conceded the fact that they
    cannot win."
    
    My views:  (hey, why not;-) )
    
    Rodgers makes some good points,  as road racing has grown, and prize
    money offered, the race is really over lining up sponsers, and in
    order to get sponsers and keep sponsers, you need top athletes,
    and more often than not, that means getting a large foreign contingent.
    As this practice has escalated, so have the costs for the regular
    runners, who now pay $10-30 dollars for most races, and receive
    less and less attention, aid, etc., in return.  Rodgers comments
    tie in nicely with Shorters.
    
    Shorter is bringing up the concept of "Big fish in a small pond,
    or a small fish in a big pond."  Again, as races, even smaller local
    ones (For example, the Maynard road race offers monatary prizes
    and has Polish athletes compete....) over race money, and some
    expenses.  A good local runner can pull in some decent cash by becoming
    a big time running stud in his/her local area, but never makes the
    breakthrough to be a good international athlete.  In order to do
    that, you have to swallow the pride a bit and take some serious
    lumps.   
    
    Money has also kept folks in the racing circuit longer than they
    used to, but that's another story....
    
    JD

    JD, FYI - last year's Maynard winner was from Ireland, and as you
    mentioned this year's winner was from Poland.  Being a Maynard hick all
    my life, it is pretty amazing to see this kind of participation.  They
    do give out prize money in several other categories as well.
    
    					Steve

I believe the only US distance runner who approaches world
class *and* holds down a 40 hr/week regular job is Pat Peterson.
That IMO must be VERY tough.

Shorter makes some good points.  If you're a runner, and you're
training with other very good runners in a training place, then
you are going to get better, almost by osmosis.  When I work with
people who are excellent engineers, my engineering skills improve.

I guess we just don't want it bad enough here.....

    great news.. good to see  roberto  back....
    
    dinz
    

                          -< frankie, how ya doing? >-


Not bad Dinz, not bad.  Alternating 3� and 5� these days.  Shedding
weight at about 2 per week...  Feeling good, although not as good
as the night I saw Tyler 8^) 8^)

Keep hittin' the pavement dude!

'Saw

    Id just like to make a little comment, even though I am not personally
    involved in Track and Field events, I am an avid fan of the sport.  I
    go to school at Manhattan College where Track and Field is the schools
    claim to fame.  The problem we are having at Manhattan is that there
    aren't enough people at the meets who cheer our team on.  One of my
    closest friends qualified for the NCAA in the Hammer and there was no
    one at his meet.  I realize that the sport can be slow and drawn out
    but I urge you people out there to go to a track meet which is of
    interest to you and cheer your fellow athletes on.
    
    Sorry if this sounds too corny
    
    S

    Re:-1
    
    Good request Steve (?) but I got a comment.  For all practical
    purposes, isn't the NCAA T & F season over?  The local rags
    would rather announce a tiddley-winkie tournament than tell us
    about a track meet :*(
    
    I hope yer friend does well @ the NCAA's
    
    Kev_who's_DAD_was_a_IC4A_X-C_Champion_Runner_for_Manhattan_before_WWII
    

    Actually the "S" is for Stephanie and I think a major problem exists
    with the fact that when a schools president, principal, or athletic
    director doesn't show up for the meets, it kind of leaves the alum, or
    undergrad's left with a feeling that its not worthwhile to attend
    
    Happy running!!!
    Steph 

    I dunno about that.  Let's face it, by far the majority of people
    don't know anything about track meets.  Other than the 100yd/m and
    the mile, I'd bet that every other race looks the same to them,
    especially during the indoor season with the much smaller track.
    
    I looks like all they do is go around and around "x" times and then
    there is a finish line.  The strategy of pace, passing, leading, etc.
    is totally foreign.  Other than an occasional "spike" job, the
    bloodsucker sports fan (like hockey, boxing) is left without that
    turn on.
    
    School admin-types don't go (IMHO) because since there's no revenue,
    there's little/no media exposure.  During the 12 years I ran
    competitively, other than parents and girlfriends, nobody (well, almost
    nobody) went to a meet just to watch.  Of course, ex-runners are exempt
    from this statement - we're like a fraternity.
    
    Another point is the fickle nature of the (typical?) fan.  If the meet
    doesn't have a world class superstar aiming for a world record, the
    meet won't attract many fans/observers-there is a difference).
    
    Of course there are exceptions, like the Penn/Drake relays.  They
    always draw crowds.  I remember at the Penn Relays looking into the
    stands and seeing almost every seat filled.  It was almost as
    scary as running in Madison Square Garden because there were soooo
    many people.  They weren't as loud, except on the final turn and
    straight away, as the Garden croud, but ya gotta differentiate indoor
    from outdoor.
    
    I think to enlarge the following of T & F, the first thing that must 
    happen is the print media needs to have frequent and regular articles
    in the sports section - far more than the every 6 week 1" x 2" box
    score.  Put the results of several meets together so folks can begin
    to see comparitive times.  Suppliment this with a writer who knows 
    something about the sport and let him discuss runners as athletes and
    the finer point of competition, i.e. "JD has an incredible kick and
    can run the final 220 in 22.4 seconds, if /Don wants to win this one,
    he's got to have a 50 yd (half straightaway) lead going into the final 
    turn.  Watch for /Don to go out fast and try to increase his lead and
    JD, a typical middle of the pack runner, try to stay with /Don even
    though JD's race pace is about as fast as sap running down a tree in
    the winter."  Comments such as this could help people understand
    and maybe even like T & F.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    *******     DISCLAIMER * DISCLAIMER * DISCLAIMER * DISCLAIMER *********
    
    
    
    
    Any resemblance in the aforementioned note to any person, living or
    dead is PURELY COINCIDENTAL, etc, etc........
    
    
    
    
    *******         DISCLAIMER  *********   DISCLAIMER ************
    
    
    
    :^)
    
    Kev_OW
    
     

    Re: .45
    
    Your right  and Iagree completely.

    Steph,
    
    As an old track athlete, I concur with you.  Manhatten College,
    know it well, and like other NY schools, Track & Field and Cross
    country are their claims to fame.  Track and Field News has had
    some good articles about declining attendance at meets.
    
    ONe personal feeling I have is the explosion of road racing,
    marathoning, ultras, biatholon, triathalons, etc...they sap at the
    core sport of track and field news.   I've talked to many road racers
    who have NEVER been to a track meet...
    
    I went to Northeastern in Boston, and we had some decent crowds,
    especially indoors.  Short season, some good cross-town rivalries
    with Harvard and Boston University, and a rich tradition of track
    alumni - we have regular meeting (which, due to my new work location,
    I now longer can attend) and regular get together's at meets.  Works
    great to keep the support up.  
    
    Money has been, IMO, a problem too.  Good runners avoid each other
    - such as Cram and Aoutia - because of appearance money concerns.
    Also, promoters are obsessed with records, and deem meets without
    world records a 'failure' - many casual fans expect to see a world
    record everytime they watch any type of track meet.  That, or course,
    just isn't going to happen.
    
    I worry about the future  of track and field in the USA.  Participation
    at the high school level is dropping steadily.   I assume no one
    will pay any attention until we totally get shut out of the Olympics.
    
    JD

    JD,
    
    Im not too worried as far as schools who have 
    fairly good programs b/c as long as their are
    alumni who are doing well in the world (financially)
    they'll be willing to put money into programs they 
    believe in, the problem is how much, the head coach
    of Manhattan travels to Ireland at least 2 x a yr 
    I don't know how long MC will support that, which would 
    be too bad b/c Coach Dwyer has done great with his 
    international recruiting.
    
    The other thing is that Track in a city school such 
    as Manhattan is a plus, these kids white and black 
    who come from the city don't often have money, and
    track (like bball) is cheap to practice when you are
    a city dweller and it offers scholarships, I don't 
    think that colleges (private anyway) will get rid 
    of track.  Hate to be glum but aside from the
    Womens bball, track and field is my schools only claim to
    fame as far as athletics. 
    
    Keep running!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Steph

Steph --

Perhaps this is showing my ignorance, but I'd be willing to bet
that a track and field budget is probably pretty low compared to
most other scholastic sports.

I don't know much about the recruiting expenses, but it seems to
me that at most schools, track and field are kind of a tradition...
A school might not have a football team, but they always seems to
have a track team...


'Saw

    Joe Falcon of the USA ran a 3:49.31 mile in winning Saturday's Dream
    Mile in Oslo, Norway at the Bislett Games.  Falcon, the best American
    miler to come along since Steve Scott, beatu out Britain's Peter
    Elliott, Somalia's Abdi Bile, and East Germany's Jens-Peter Herold.
    
    In other news, Jan Zelezny (no relation to Peter..) of Czechoslovakia
    set a men's javelin world record, throwing 294 feet, 2 inches..
    
    JD

    For those who care, Carl Lewis' autobiography hit the stands late
    last week, and in it he has some harsh things to say about TAC (and
    rightly so, IMO), and on the use of illegal substances.  He accuses
    Flo-Jo of using Steroids, something that I've long suspected, and
    I believe she used them.  
    
    He has the usualy self-serving bull in there, including a part on
    his not being gay, a rumour he claims was started by an ex-girlfriend
    (they went to high school or college together, she was a sprinter...)
    
    All in all, the reviews said it was your typical autobiography....
    
    jd

    Not track, but somewhat related:
    
    Willie Gault, Edwin Moses and Hershel Walker all turned in impressive
    performances Saturday while trying out for the U.S. bobsled team
    at Lake Placid, NY.
    
    Gault finished first with 802 points, which was just 7 shy of the
    qualifying test record.
    
    Walker and Moses each scored 761 points.
    
    The test involved a series of sprints (20, 60 and 100 Meters), the
    shot put and the vertical and long jumps.
    
    William Napier, President of the US Bobsled Federation said world-class
    athletes like Gault, Walker and Moses are jsut what the boblsed
    team needs.  "They're highly trained, very fast, with excellent
    training habits.  And they help set a goal for other athlets."
    
    Gault was an alternate on the 1988 Calgary Olympic team, but didn
    not get to compete when Don LaVigne, the sledder Gault replaced,
    protested and was reinstated.
    
    Last week's tryout was the 12th in a series of 14 nationwide tests.
     "we hope to have 80 to 90 qualify for the push phase," said Napier.
    That's when qualifiers assemble for a series of timed sled-pushing
    tests at Lake Placid Sept 8-17.  65 are expected to advance to the
    second phase of testing, and 12 will be named to the team.
    
    The sept date would seem, to me, to hurt Walker's chances, since
    he'll be playing for the Vikings then...
    
    JD

    That's what the Glob said....

    Kevin,
    
    Thanks,
    
    The javelin record has been broken a few times in the last month.
    Petronoff ofthe USA broke it, then a Brit whose name escapes me,
    and now this guy.  
    
    Illegal jav - I wonder if he used oneof the old ones...
    
    JD

Saw a recent report on Inside Edition about the Jamaican Bobsled team.

It's really interesting how that country rallies around their team.

There is a 1-800 number in California that you can call to become
an official member of the Jamaican Bob fan club, complete with t-shirt
etc etc etc....

About the jav:

	Anyone want to explain the differences between old and new
	illegal vs legal?

'Saw

    Saw,
    
    The changed it a few years back to make it less aerodynamic.  Problem
    was the guys were throwing the damn thing too far.  300 foot throws
    were becoming routine, and it was becoming a problem.  The redesigned
    it so it wouldn't go as far.  Of course, the guys are starting to
    creep towards the 300 foot barrier again.  I assume that the Finns,
    who've been quiet of late, will make a push in time for the 92 games,
    and the 300 barrier will be broken again.   I forget exactly when
    they changed, but it might  have been 5 years ago or so.
    
    And I also heard about the Jamican bobsled fan club.  Walt sent
    me an address, which he got from Armen Chakmakjian...
    
    JD

Post it JD.  

Da Jamaican Bob, mon, is dee hottest dahm ting to come around
since ganja, mon.  ;^)

'Saw

	Mebbe dis ill-eagle thingamajig has a microproccesor
    thingamajiggie wif a sensor and a _ajustable weight who
    figgurs out da trajektory and ajusts to da slope of da 
    point and makes da suker keep a "lift" to jest da rite
    moment bifour it slydes to to point? 

JD,

re .53

Are you serious about Carl not being gay?

He was here in Lausanne last week with the Santa Monica Pee Pee Smoochers
club and as far as I'm concerned the guy was more feminine than half the
women out there (those Eastern Block ones....).

I can't wait for Barcelona so we can watch Big Ben say Bye bye!!!

rick ellis

Rick...

I've seen some of those Eastern block women, and some of the ones
I've seen look mighty nice.  Check out Uta Pipping, the East German
marathoner.  Hell, I'd lose 50 pounds and run intervals three times
a week if I thought I could catch up to her!

BTW, Carl Lewis is also interested in a music career.  From what I've
heard he doesn't sound half bad....

HTH,
'Saw

    Rick,
    
    Just reporting what was in the article reviewing Carl's book.  He
    claims that the woman who started the rumour was his girlfriend/lover
    for years, and when spurned, started the story.  Who knows what
    the truth is....
    
    JD

    Heard a litte of Carl Lewis on Bob Costas' radio show last night.  He
    made a big thing about this rivalry with Ben Johnson, and how Johnson's
    trainers built up the thing.  He said that after the Olympic race, he
    forced the issue with shaking hands, and that when he did, Johnson
    wouldn't even look hm in the face.  He said that if Johnson was in a room
    with him today, he would barely nod to him, and just walk past.  He
    also said that befor the race, he saw that Johnson's eyes were
    "yellow", and that he knew he was pumped up on 'roids.
    
    Lewis was probably shilling for his book, but it was nice to hear a
    "mainstream" program talking about track and field.
    
    =Bob=

 re .last,

Interesting, Bob,

I always heard around Toronto that Johnson *hates* Lewis, especially for
his hotdogging.  

Also, Johnson doesn't say too much to anyone in public situations because
of that speech impediment.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the kind that likes to let the
actions speak for themselves, which I always think is neat in a way.

rick ellis

    	Well, the other night in the Goodwill Games, Mr. Lewis
    	was beaten by another American in the 100 meters.
    
    	That should quiet him down some.
    
    	scott

    I'm not a Carl Lewis fan, but in competition, Lewis is far, far
    from being a hotdog.  Raising one's arm in victory, and taking victory
    laps are part of track and field, and *everyone* does it.  Ben Johnson
    was far and  away more of an antagonist.  
    
    As for Johnson, I'll still stick by my guns and say anyone who follows
    the sport closely HAD to know Johnson was pumping the steroids (and
    I still say it was painfully clear that Flo-Jo did also...)
    
    
    Re the 100M,  Lewis lost to Burell, and it wasn't really an upset
    or a suprise.  Burrell has simply been the best sprinter in the
    world this year.   If he can keep form for a few more years, he'll
    be a favorite in 92, but that's a LONG, LONG time from now.
    
    JD

Track and Field Results - 7/27/90

Men's 4 x 100 Relay:

1.  USA (Marsh, Council, Cason, Mitchell)  38.45 seconds
2.  Cuba (Simon, Penalver, Stevens, Isasi) 38.49
3.  USSR (Byzgin, Krylov, Fatun, Galkin) 38.96

Men's 4 x 400 Relay:

1.  USA (Daniel, Valmon, Pettigrew, Simon) 2:59.54
2.  Jamaica                                3:00.45
3.  Cuba                                   3:03.35


Men's Hammer Throw:

1.  Igor Astapkovitch, USSR  276 feet
2.  Andry Abdulvalyev, Ussr  269' 8"
3.  Igor Nikulen       USSR  269' 6"


Men's High Jump:

1.  Hollis COnway, USA   7' 8 inches
2.  Doug Nordquist, USA  7' 6 3/4"
3.  Tony Barton, USA     7' 6 3/4"

Men's Triple Jump:

1.  Kenny Harrison, USA  58' 1 3/4"
2.  Mike Conley, USA     57' 4 1/4"
3.  Vladimir Inozensev USSR 55' 11 3/4"

Women's 4x400 Relay:

1. USSR (Vinogradova, Schmonina, Ruzina, Dzhigalova) 3:23.70
2. USA  (Kaiser, Stevens, Leatherwood, Malone)       3:24.53
3. USSR (Loboyko, Grebenchuk, Olizarenko, Nurutdinova) 3:30.60

Women's 10000:

1.  Wanda Panfil, Poland   32:01.17
2.  Cathy O'Brien, USA     32:05.40
3.  Olga Nazarkina, USSR   32:05.76

Women's 400 Hurdles:

1.  Sandra Farmer-Patrick, USA   55.16
2.  Schowonda Williams, USA      55.65
3.  Lyudmila Khodosevich, USSR   57.33

Women's 4x100 Relay:

1. USA (Guidry, Echols, Finn, Ashford)  42.46
2. USSR                                 42.67
3. Jamaica                              44.12


JD

    Thanks for the results JD.
    
    RE: Lewis
    
    Say what you will, he is one of the few t&f people who gets any
    publicity for the sport in the mainstream.
    
    RE: Flo Jo
    
    As I said in an earlier note (I think), curious how she hung it up
    right after becoming a national hero.  That, combined with her fast
    improvement leads me to agree with you about the 'riods.
    
    =Bob=
    

    re .70
    
    JD, if FloJo was on steriods, why wasn't it detected ? Lord knows she
    won enough to be tested .....

    Doc,
    
    It's very possible to build ones' self up, and then stop the cycle
    in time to not get caught.  In fact, it was widely reported that
    Ben Johnson's mistake was he took an extra boost to close to the
    final.
    
    Just think, Johnson was suspected because of his seemingly overnight
    build up in muscle definition and tone, his explosive start, his
    quick improvement.  
    
    Some with FloJo - unbelievable increase in muscle tone and definition,
    an unreal start and reaction time, and an improvement much greater
    than Ben Johnson's.   Her name is prominantly mentioned by folks
    when they talk about steriod users.
    
    JD

    JD, it's also known that FloJo wasn't the world's greatest trainer for
    a while either. Maybe I'm being naive, but she is a big woman (unlike
    Evelyn Ashford, for example), and it seemed to me that when I watched
    her in 84, she had plenty of room for improvement if she was willing to
    put out on the training track.
    
    In any case, track and field will have to end the hypocricy with
    'roids. What I mean is that officially, the reason for banning steriods
    isn't that they enhance performance (a lot of experts *claim* that they
    really do NOT make one faster (yeah, right)), but that they are unsafe.
    
    I would have to assume then when some doc cooks up a batch of 'riods
    that are sans side effects (making safe steriods no more dangerous than
    protein powder), then they will be legalized, right ?
    
    BTW, I thought the Olympic testing procedure could detect steriods at a
    rate of 1 part per 10,000,000 (at least) ? How long would one have to
    stay clean to beat the test ? And wouldn't you run the risk of losing
    your benifits ?
    
    Lastly, will Carl Lewis ever be tested positive fo estrogen ?
    
    Doc

    
    Accoding to the Globe, Carl is injured and won't be racing for a
    few months.  He musta hurt himself at the NY Games.
    
    Kev
    

    Kev,
    
    Carl strained a hamstring, the team did finish first, but not in
    WR time, I think they ran a :38.13, which would put them at the
    top for the year (or second - but they have the top two times anyway).
    
    Doc,
    
    She is a big women, and she had room for improvement, but she improved
    very fast, and her times were way off mark for 'normal' improvement.
    
    Believe me, I hope she was clean - but I think she did her self
    a disservice by retiring right away - it looked like she was trying
    to hide something.
    
    JD

    The French national teams set a world record in the 4 x 100 relay
    last week.  They bettered the mark set by the 1984 Gold Medal squad
    from the USA.  The French ran 37.39.    I'm really surprised.  In
    all my years of following the sport, the French have never been
    known for sprinters.  Not since Jean-Louie Ravelamantesoua have
    the French had a real world class sprinter.
    
    Congrats!!!
    
    JD

>>    The French national teams set a world record in the 4 x 100 relay
>>    last week.  They bettered the mark set by the 1984 Gold Medal squad
>>    from the USA.  The French ran 37.39.    I'm really surprised.  In

	If you are talking about the Euro. championships, I think it was a Euro.
record not a world record ! I maybe wrong !

Mike

>>	If you are talking about the Euro. championships, I think it was a Euro.
>>record not a world record ! I maybe wrong !

Nope, a World Record it was, surprising as it is.

And, if you take a look at the runners, they weren't very continental French

rick ellis

    Rick,
    
    I was wondering where the team came from.  I know past  good French
    sprinters hailed from there colonial holdings in other continents.
    
    JD
    
    On a side note, the IOC announced that South Africa will be able
    to compete in the 1996 Olympics.   Politics aside, I've always felt
    that South Africa should have been able to field a team. I think
    their politics are horrible, but they were the only country banned.
    Think about it, Pol Pot's Cambodia could field an Olympic team,
    Idi Amin's Uganda fielded teams, etc.
    
    JD

    Hey JD, CONGRATS for having your mug in the latest "Digital This Week"!
    
    Hawk

�                  -< God, you mean the camera didn't break? >-

Or:

	God, you mean JD didn't break the camera??    

    Surprising that the camera was able to fit in those huge lats.....
    

    Hawk,
    
    I haven't seen the picture, but I'm sure it's of framing quality.
      I'm quite sure that all of you will hang it prominently in your
    office space - proudly pointing it out to visitors - letting them
    know that you know me.  Alas - we do not get DTW out west - probably
    a blessing in disguise, as it would be embarrassing to be besieged
    daily with autograph requests and outlandish illicit proposals.
    
    JD

Hawk,

Send JD mail.  I think he should get a copy of DTW or whatever
it's called.

JD, I've got a good picture of you wantonly destroying a grill,
should I submit that to DTW????

HTH,
'Saw