Conference 7.286::sports_90

    Bob, I'm a little confused. What is the difference between Prop
    26, and the one currently in use (Prop 48) ?
    
    Personally, I feel that Prop 42 wasn't that bad an idea, as it will
    force kids to STUDY in high school, and realize that life is not
    a free ride.
    
    When you raise expectations, you raise performance.
    
    (And of course, this is coming from a African-American, FWIW.)
    
    DrM

I thought Propositioning was illegal in all states in the Union
except Nevada?

Seriously, all these things kill me.  Why don't they just make some
rules, and be done with it.  If they made rules, then everyone
would understand just what they're talking about, and if anyone
was getting screwed it would be a little plainer..

Students should be eligible for financial aid, provided there is
need, and they demonstrate some ability...

Unless I've completely missed the point...

'Saw

    My cut on this (as is Dean's, BTW) is that freshmen should be
    ineligible - PERIOD.  Returning to the days of freshmen being
    ineligible would be in the best interest of the STUDENT-ATHLETE.
    
    But of course we're fooling ourselves if we think the NCAA's have
    *that* as their #1 priority.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Doc,
    
    Prop 48 says that a freshman who doesn't meet the academic standards
    can lose the eligibility but can still get an athletic scholarship to
    pay for college.
    
    Prop 42 said no eligibilty and no financial aid of any kind, either. 
    Thompson (and others) fought this one because they felt the inner-city
    kids wouldn't be able to attend at all.
    
    They were right but they missed the point badly.  Colleges are not for
    basketball players.  They're for students.
    
    Prop 26 says no eligibility but financial aid based on family need
    alone can be made available.
    
    I like 26.  I haven't put a whole lot of deep thought into it.  It does
    stand for a minimum academic standard and that's important.   It may
    penalize the private schools that have much higher costs than public
    schools.   Private schools like Georgetown and Syracuse might have a
    harder time getting a recruit if financial aid is the issue.
    
    I'm also trying to envision what the impact on the family might be. 
    Some of the best black comedians like Cosby and Eddie Murphy get huge
    laughs out of describing just how tough their mothers were on them as
    they grew up.   It isn't hard to imagine a tough mom pushing her
    talented son to study if they both know that an athletic free ride
    needs a certain minimum standard.
    
    It's not just a black and white issue.  There are plenty of white kids
    that are affected as well.  The issue is academic standards and I'm all
    for it.  The intelligence of our youth is a critical investment for
    this country's future.
    
    I'm far more impressed by a brain surgeon than by a fullback.
    
    Bob Hunt

    
    I'm confused on one thing with the now-deceased Prop 42.
    
    How did they differentiate athletes from non-athletes in denying
    incoming freshman of *any* financial aid?  I'm sure that some schools
    do allow some aid on a need basis to students that don't meet the 2.0
    GPA/700 SAT requirement.  Did the NCAA schools agree that no such
    students would receive any aid of any kind, athlete or not? 
    
    If that were the case, I would certainly welcome Prop 26, as it would
    remove a major source of discrimination at NCAA schools, where athletes
    are treated *more* severely as freshman than the population at large.
    
    glenn

    This needs to be instituted in High School, elementary school, or
    kindergarten.  It's too damn late by the time a kid is ready to
    attend college to worry about whether or not he can read or write.
    
    JD

    Is it me?  My DEC fiscal calender says that it's Tuesday Jan-9-1990.
    
    My VAX tells me it's Tuesday Jan-9-1990.
    
    My Larson daily calender tells me it's Tuesday Jan-9-1990.
    
    Why do these notes have a date of Jan 10th???  Am I in the Twilight
    Zone?
    
    Topic related:  It's true what JD says that by the time a kid is ready
    to go to college you should not have to worry wether or not he/she can
    read or write.  Unfortuately, that is the sad truth.  I agree that if
    the NCAA were _really_ interested in education they should make all
    freshman inelligable UNLESS the kid carried a 3.2 or better through
    High School (or some number around there).
    
    								Randy

           <<< OURGNG::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                               -< SON OF SPORTS >-
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Note 106.8                     NCAA Proposition 26                        8 of 8
UNXA::ADLER "Ed - VAX System V Operations"           12 lines  10-JAN-1990 17:17
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    re: 106.7
    
    Today is Wednesday, 10-Jan-1990 where I sit.
    
    re: some of the others
    
    If you really believe that the athletic departments aren't going
    to turn over some of their scholarship money to the school's general
    scholarship fund in order to pay for these Prop. 27 kids, then I've
    got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.....         |
                                             ( that's 26 - sorry)
    /Ed

    Notes 106.1 thru 106.6 have dates of 10-JAN-1990
    
    My note, 106.7 has a date of 9-JAN-1990
    
    How can this be?

    One of the most vocal opponents of last year's Prop 42 was Temple
    basketball coach John Chaney.  I thought he was wrong last year
    and I still think he's wrong.  Academic standards are not "nice
    to have", they're required.
    
    This week, Temple starting center and senior Duane Causwell has
    lost the rest of his eligibility.  He flunked out of school. 
    Earlier this morning, he enrolled in a center-city Philly
    community college.  He was a Prop 48 student who lost his freshman
    year.
    
    He was flunking such courses as "Dance" and "Physical Education".
    
    Temple has held out an incentive to Causwell.  If he makes
    progress at the community college, he can apply for reinstatement
    to Temple and finish out his scholarship.
    
    However, Causwell has stated that he does not intend to return to
    Temple since he is anticipating a first round selection in the
    upcoming NBA draft.
    
    This is sad.   I just wish Chaney would now see the value of
    academic standards.  No way should Duane Causwell have even been
    anywhere  close to a schoolbook.  He had no intention of using
    Temple to get an education.  Temple was his springboard to the
    NBA.
    
    There ought to be at least one person out there who is pissed that
    he/she couldn't get into Temple because all the scholarship money
    had already been passed out.
    
    Bob Hunt

    Bob, I respect you and you views greatly.  You are one of the most
    thoughtful and knowledgable noters in this conference.  I agree with
    you on 95% of what you write.  But on this issue we disagree.
    
    First, if you are naive enough to believe that some deserving student
    missed out on a scholarship because Causwell got one, then you are
    sadly mistaken.  Those scholarships are basketball scholarships.  Rest
    assured that if Causwell didn't use the scholarship, some ohter 6-11
    type would have gotten the scholarship, not some pig-tailed girl from
    Podunk, Iowa.
    
    Secondly, even though Causwell flunked out of Temple, he immediately
    enrolled in a junior college.  He's not out on the streets working in a
    7-11.  He is trying to complete his college degree.  I never read
    anywhere that he flunked dance and PE.  Why would he enroll in a JC if
    he wasn't still interested in academics?  Wouldn't he just go to the Y
    every day and practice hoops for hours, or join a CBA team?
    
    I find no fault with someone flunking out of a school in the middle of 
    his senior year.  He did complete 3 1/2 years of college.  That's as
    far as my sister got, and although she's a jerk sometimes ;-), she 
    benefitted from the education she got, just as I'm sure Causwell 
    benefitted.  Sometimes you've got to gamble on certain students, let
    them have a chance to succeed.  Causwell didn't fully succeed, but he
    certainly didn't fully fail either.  The system seemed to work to me
    Temple didn't let him stay in school just to play basketball.  I'm sure
    Causwell is a better, more learned person now than he was four years
    ago.  And he is still trying to complete college, although at a less
    strenuous academic situation.
    
    NAZZ

    Nazz,
    
    You're probably right in most of your analysis of my feelings on
    this Causwell thing.  I guess I've started to tilt towards the
    "zealot" side of this issue with academic standards.
    
    I just can't embrace this notion that our nation's universities
    and colleges can so blatantly sell themselves for so many hundreds
    of millions of dollars all in the name of athletic entertainment. 
    The term "student-athlete" has become ludicrously laughable.
    
    I'm sure you're right that Causwell's athletic scholarship would
    most likely have gone to another basketball player.  It just burns
    me up to see a kid like that waste such a wonderful chance to get
    a quality education.  Is he that stupid enough to believe that the
    NBA is a lifelong career ???   What's he going to fall back on
    when his playing days are over ???  What he learned in Advanced
    Ballroom Dancing ???
    
    As for enrolling in a community college, maybe you're right. 
    Maybe he is serious about hitting the books.  But if so, he should
    have been hitting them at Temple.  Temple is a fine school.
    
    So, perhaps it was the demands of basketball that kept him away
    from the books.  This is what the NCAA is trying to address by
    shortening the regular season by 3 games.  I'm all for it.  Give
    Duane Causwell and others like him a chance to study and maybe he
    will take classes in Accounting or Secondary Education or
    Mechanical Engineering.   We certainly need accountants, teachers,
    and engineers a helluva lot more than we need centers.
    
    Lastly, John Chaney.   The guy had a super team in 1988 that was
    ranked Number 1 and made it to the East Regional Finals.  In 1989,
    he started spouting off about Prop 42 and I lost a lot of respect
    for him.  I just don't think basketball coaches ought to speak out
    against academic standards.  First, they're not qualified to set
    academic standards and second, they're out of line.
    
    John Chaney fought Prop 42 because he felt it would deprive an
    inner-city kid (read: "black") of an education.   Fine.  Maybe so. 
    But then he has an inner-city kid (a Prop 48'er, by the way) flunk
    out of "Dance" class.  Either Causwell didn't belong in school in
    the first place or, if he did, Temple basketball demanded too much
    of his study time.  Either way, Chaney doesn't perform, in my
    eyes.  If the kid didn't belong in school, then Chaney shouldn't
    have recruited him.   If he did belong in school, then Chaney
    shouldn't be playing games on TV a couple of thousand miles away
    in Las Vegas on a late Sunday afternoon because that gives
    Causwell no chance to make it to his Monday morning classes.
    
    Either way, Chaney didn't help the kid and he didn't help Temple.
    
    I dunno.  Maybe I'm not seeing both sides.
    
    Bob Hunt

    The whole student-athlete situation brings up some interesting points
    of discussion.  
    
    If the purpose of college is to prepare someone for a career, what's
    the difference between preparing them to teach school or play for the
    NBA?
    
    If a school is awarded a research grant, should the funding go to
    improve the whole school or reside in the department to which it was
    granted?
    
    If a school is making alot of money on its sports programs, should
    the money go to improving the entire school or maintaining the atheltic
    department?
    
    Should there just be a farm system for the NBA and NFL?
    
    Would such a farm system allow students to participate in athletics
    just for the fun of it?
    
    I think the NCAA should just start being honest with themselves and
    start trying to identify and adress the real problems.