Conference 7.286::sports_90

    In the old Sports note, I wrote that the recent road trip would show
    what the Supes were made of. Well, they lost all 4 by an average of
    about 18 points.  Granted, all were against good teams: Boston,
    Cleveland, Detroit and New York.  But, the efforts were all very weak.
    The Sonics play like they expect to lose on the road.  
    
    They came home and had a very convincing 21 point win over Portland.
    I attended the next game, a close loss to Indiana.  The Sonics had 25
    more shots than the Pacers, and still lost.  Unbelievable!  Ellis was
    5-20 from the field.  Credit the Pacers' win to Reggie Miller, who hit
    about 5 of 6 3-pointers.  In the 3rd quarter, he couldn't miss.  He 
    launched a three from about 3 feet behind the line that got nothing
    but net.  He was incredible.  
    
    Incredible shot of the night went to Derrick McKey, however.  He took
    a pass going full speed down the lane.  He got the pass at about the
    foul line and put the ball in his left hand and slammed it in windmill
    style.  It was awe-inspiring.  The crowd screamed for over a minute 
    after that.  Probably the best dunk I have ever seen live.
    
    A prediction: if Shawn Kemp gets invited to the dunk competition, he
    will win it hands down.  
    
    Pete

I think Dale Ellis can take the blame for all the losses.  He has been putrid
but is still shooting more than anyone.  He hit 7-21, 4-19, 7-17, and 5-20 for
the four games.  For the trip he was 1-25 (.040) from three point range.  Add
the McDaniel suspension to one of the games and I'd say there's alot to
overcome.  

Despite Ellis' horrendous shooting lately, he's still playing over 40 minutes. 
Doesn't this seem like a good time to play Dana Barros more?  Admittedly, he
waas 2-11 against the Knicks in 15 minutes.  He only played 8, 6, and 4
minutes in the other three games.

How is Avery Johnson coming along?  I keep hearing his name in Seattle's future
plans but he doesn't seem to get any playing time.

j.


ELLIS             G    35    7-21     0-0      3   1   4    1   1   1   3   14
BARROS                  8    2-6      1-2      0   1   1    0   1   0   0    5
3-PT. FIELD GOALS: SEA 0-6 (.000), ELLIS 0-4,
BARROS 0-2. CLE 3-8 (.375), R WILLIAMS 0-1, PRICE 1-3, KERR 1-2,


ELLIS             G    41    4-19     4-4      1   1   2    3   1   2   1   13
BARROS                 15    2-11     0-0      0   1   1    2   1   1   0    4
3-PT. FIELD GOALS: SEA 2-12 (.167), ELLIS 1-8, JOHNSON 1-1,
BARROS 0-3. NYK 1-7 (.143), NEWMAN 0-1, G WILKINS 0-2, TUCKER 1-4.


ELLIS             F    42    7-17     0-0      1   3   4    2   1   1   3   14
BARROS                  6    2-3      2-2      0   2   2    1   1   0   1    6
3-PT. FIELD GOALS: SEA 0-7 (.000), ELLIS 0-6,


ELLIS             G    41    5-20     2-5      3   4   7    1   4   4   1   12
BARROS                  4    0-1      0-0      0   0   0    1   1   0   0    0
ELLIS 0-5, THREATT 0-1.

    Jeff,
    
    Avery has been getting more playing time, but Bernie's guard rotation
    leaves much to be desired.  He leaves Dale and Nate in way too much,
    and plays Dale at small forward at times.  Dales been in a 3-point
    shooting slump all season long...
    
    JD

    Ellis snapped out of his slump last night, hitting 12 of 19 (3 for 4
    threes) for 33 points.  Let's hope he keeps it up.  The Supes beat
    the Sixers 110-106.  They had a 17 point lead in the 4th quarter that
    almost got away from them, but they held on to win.
    
    Avery Johnson indeed seems to be the choice for Nate's backup.  He does
    a good job of pushing the ball up the court, but I don't think he has
    Barros's bright future.  Deep in the doghouse is Brad Sellers.  Geez,
    what did the Sonics' front office see in this guy?  If all they wanted
    was someone to launch bricks from 20 feet, there are plenty of those
    guys out there, ones that don't cost you a first round draft choice.
    I saw one game where he got aggressive and was very effective, but in
    general he seems to have had an incident in his childhood where he was
    frightened by a backboard.  Seeing him in the vicinity of the basket
    is a big surprise.  The Sonics seemed to not be able to handle all of
    the first round choices they had in their future a couple of years ago
    and had some strange desire to waste them.  Polynice and Sellers.  What
    a pair!
    
    JD, you are going to the Boston game tomorrow, right?  Maybe we can
    meet for a beer.  I guess you will have to go shirtless so I can 
    recognize you by your legendary lats, right?
    
    Pete
    

Good to see Ellis break out of his funk.  I've included all of the relevant
information from the game.

JD says he's going to the game but I doubt he'll be checking mail before it
since he's not leaving Boston until tomorrow morning.

j.


SEATTLE  DEC28


Philadelphia had a three game winning streak end in Tuesday
night's 114-111 loss in Denver.  The 76ers were led by Charles
Barkley who scored 32 points and grabbed 16 rebounds.  Barkley
is among the N-B-A leaders, averaging 23.4 points and 10.7
rebounds per game.  Philadelphia is 4-9 on the road but has won
just once in its last seven road contests.  The Christmas break
couldn't have arrived soon enough for Seattle.  The Sonics have
dropped five of their last six games and lead fourth place
Phoenix by just a half game in the Pacific Division.  Despite
Xavier McDaniel's 29 points, Seattle fell, 98-95, versus
Indiana Saturday.  Dale Ellis leads Seattle, averaging 23.4 a
game and McDaniel is right behind, averaging 22.4 a game.  The
Sonics are 10-2 at home and had won eight in a row before the
loss to the Pacers.  

NBA  FINAL           1ST 2ND 3RD 4TH                 TOTAL
                     --- --- --- ---                 -----
     PHILADELPHIA     30  28  20  28                  106
     SEATTLE          30  32  30  18                  110    FINAL

 HIGH SCORERS:  PHI - CHARLES BARKLEY 22
                SEA - DALE ELLIS 33

PHILADELPHIA (106) AT SEATTLE (110)

PHILADELPHIA
                                               REBOUNDS
PLAYER           POS  MIN  FGM-FGA  FTM-FTA  OFF-DEF-TOT  AST  PF  ST  TO  PTS
======           ===  ===  =======  =======  ===========  ===  ==  ==  ==  ===

BARKLEY           F    42    8-14     6-7      3   2   5    1   5   1   3   22
MAHORN            F    33    4-8      3-4      4   6  10    4   3   3   3   11
GMINSKI           C    35    6-11     0-0      2   6   8    2   2   0   2   12
HAWKINS           G    31    5-12     6-7      1   0   1    3   4   3   3   17
DAWKINS           G    34    6-12     2-2      1   0   1    7   3   1   2   14
ANDERSON               29    7-13     4-4      1   3   4    2   1   0   0   18
SMITH                  19    3-6      0-0      0   0   0    1   1   0   3    6
THORNTON                3    1-1      0-0      0   0   0    0   0   0   0    2
BROOKS                 14    1-2      2-2      0   1   1    0   0   0   0    4

TOTALS                240   41-79    23-26    12  18  30   20  19   8  16  106
                            (.519)   (.885)  TEAM REBS: 4

SEATTLE
                                               REBOUNDS
PLAYER           POS  MIN  FGM-FGA  FTM-FTA  OFF-DEF-TOT  AST  PF  ST  TO  PTS
======           ===  ===  =======  =======  ===========  ===  ==  ==  ==  ===

MCDANIEL          F    41    7-16     5-6      2   3   5    2   4   2   2   19
MCKEY             F    39    8-13     5-6      0   4   4    1   4   1   4   21
CAGE              C    37    4-10     2-2      6   7  13    0   2   1   2   10
MCMILLAN          G    13    3-5      0-0      2   1   3    6   6   0   2    6
ELLIS             G    44   12-19     6-7      3   4   7    3   2   3   3   33
JOHNSON                12    1-3      0-0      0   0   0    3   0   0   1    2
THREATT                19    2-4      0-0      0   1   1    7   2   2   2    4
POLYNICE               11    2-2      0-0      1   4   5    0   5   0   1    4
KEMP                    3    1-1      0-0      1   0   1    0   1   0   2    2
BARROS                 13    2-6      0-0      0   0   0    1   0   0   0    5
SELLERS                 8    2-3      0-0      0   0   0    0   0   0   1    4

TOTALS                240   44-82    18-21    15  24  39   23  26   9  20  110
                            (.537)   (.857)  TEAM REBS: 9

   PHILADELPHIA       30   28   20   28  -  106
   SEATTLE            30   32   30   18  -  110

BLOCKED SHOTS: PHI - BARKLEY, MAHORN. SEA - MCKEY, CAGE, SELLERS. 
3-PT. FIELD GOALS: PHI 1-6 (.167), BARKLEY 0-1, HAWKINS 1-4,
SMITH 0-1. SEA 4-7 (.571), ELLIS 3-4, BARROS 1-3.
TECHNICALS: SEA - ILLEGAL DEFENSE (2).
OFFICIALS: MATHIS, JAVIE, T ONEILL.
A - 14,381. 

Jeff, thanks for the nice boxscore contributions. 

RE. Ellis: don't they always say shooters have to shoot themselves out of a
slump?  That must be Bernie's rationale in leaving Elllis on the floor despite
ice cold shooting. This team seems to need great performances by BOTH Ellis and
McDaniel to win. Too bad someone else can't become part of that formula and
make it a big threesome. Someone like McKey, that is. Or a scoring center.
(Dream on.)

I'm in heaven: the Sonics game vs the Celts is on the tube (Albany station)
tonight!!! My first look at the 1989-90 team. Should be a good game,
considering the pounding the Celts gave the Sonics in the Gahden.

Brian

    Brian, I think you hit the nail on the head.  Ellis and X are notorious
    for firing away even when they are cold.  The problem with X is that
    his favorite shot is that turnaround, falling away 15-foot jumper.  He
    hits it with amazing regularity (at home, at least).  But, as you know,
    it's kind of an exacting shot.  If it's off just a little, watch out.
    He'll keep firing all night, though, even if it's not going in.  Same
    for Ellis.  
    
    McKey has been much more consistent this year, and having Nate
    penetrating has helped alot, too.  But, the fact remains that if either
    Ellis or X are cold, the Sonics lose.  If they are both cold, which
    they almost always are on the road, the get blown away.  If there was
    anybody except Threatt on the bench who could score, it might not be
    such a problem.  As I said before, Sellers is a major stiff and Kemp
    is still out of control and shoots below 40%.
    
    The encouraging news on the horizon is that the Sonics next few road
    trips are easier than their last few.  In Jan-Feb, they play on the
    road at:
    
      Jan 31  Minnesota
      Feb  2  Indiana
      Feb  3  Washington
      Feb  5  Charlotte
      Feb 15  New Jersey
      Feb 16  Philly
      Feb 18  Charlotte
      Feb 20  Orlando
      Feb 21  Miami
      Feb 27  LA Clippers
    
    Even the Sonics should be able to win a good % of these games.  Bernie
    has to kick some butt, though.  Another road trip like the recently 
    completed one should result in some benchings.  The team sleep-walks
    through road games.  It's like they figure it's a loss anyway, so why
    try.
    
    
    Pete

You guys who got to see in person the Sonics lose to the Celtics Friday night
are lucky. Lucky that you didn't have to listen to Bob Cousy do the "color"
commentary on the Boston TV broadcast.

Cousy may have been a great player in his day, but as an announcer he is a
total homer. The Sonics, leading by as much as eight points late in the third
quarter, take some ill-advised long jumpshots and Cousy's belittling them,
saying "This is a stupid team" [a direct quote!] and "I thought we were going
to see a much better team than what we're seeing tonight." 

Doesn't he read his media guide?  He keeps saying how lame the Sonics are
offensively, and yet the fact is they're one of the top 3 teams in scoring in
the league. (Of course, Cousy also said the Denver offense--which perennially
leads the league in pts/game was poor--was poor.) 

He really laid into Derrick McKey, calling him clumsy (?!), with no shooting
ability, a wasted draft pick. Does Cousy follow the game at all? Does he know
McKey is among the top 10 in the league in FG%? McKey's got problems, but Cousy 
was way out of line.

Unfortunately, the Sonics stop hustling on D in the fourth and blow their lead
with really miserable shot selection. Cousy is slobbering all over himself,
justified. Sheesh, am I glad I'm not a Celtics fan and don't have to put up
with Cousy's lisp and "insight" game after game. 

Item:

-Sellers looked like a stiff whose timing was totally off.
 
-Cage had 8 boards in the first half and then was very quiet in the second.

-What are those tables in the endzone of the Coliseum? Media? 

-Cage is doing everything he can, but he's not a center. Polynice and Kemp
should play a combined 40 minutes per game. Take minutes from the forwards
(McKey, McDaniel, Sellers, Cage) and put the big men on the floor more,
especially against a "power" team like the Celts.

Brian

    Re. -1
    
    Brian, you're right about the Cous, but I too was amazed at how inept
    the Sonics offense was in the second half.  After every timeout, I kept
    expecting them to set up a high percentage shot but they never did. 
    They spent the whole fourth quarter bombing away from long range.  The
    players stood still in the half court offense.  Absolutely no movement,
    and practically no ball rotation.  It just seemed as if nobody wanted
    to run the offense.  It certainly wasn't McMillan (isn't he supposed to
    be their point man?)
    
    Is this typical of the way they've played this season?
    
    Laker_Ken

    
    Cousy maybe a homer and what announcer who covers his team exclusively
    isn't, But he is insightful. He does understand the game and it's finer
    points and points them out. He does bash the Celtics when they play
    lousy. His biggest problem is he doesn't shut up....
    
    mike

RE. < Note 89.9 by CUPTAY::TESSIER "Trying to forget your generation." >
   
    >They spent the whole fourth quarter bombing away from long range.  The
    >players stood still in the half court offense.  Absolutely no movement,
    >and practically no ball rotation.  

If you follow the Sonics, you know that they live (and die) by the jumpshot.
The team's leading scorers (Ellis, McDaniel) have a couple of the best "j's" in
the game. (Despite an off-year so far, Ellis has to be considered one of the
top two 3-pt shooters in the league, and X's turnaround jumper can't be
defended by less than 2 people.)

So it's not unusual to see a lot of jumpers in a Sonics game.  And I've been to
many a Sonics game that Dale Ellis iced with 3-pointers in the 4th, like he was
trying to do against Boston.

Unfortunately, the Sonics lack a consitent low-post scorer to open things up
for the bombers. Nobody doubles down on Derrick McKey (I couldn't believe he
wasn't eating Larry Bird's lunch in the several one-on-one situtations he had
in the first quarter. Too tentative.) So when Ellis and McDaniel are cold, you
got trouble.

Yes, McMillan is the point man. He is very good at getting the ball to people
who are open. But a multifaceted player he is not. (He's no better than, say,
Kevin Johnson or Mark Jackson at getting the ball to people, but he's no
scoring threat himself.)

I think this teamm is doing all it can given the strengths of its personnel.
But it lacks players with multifaceted offensive skills, players who can both
drive the lane and hit the soft jumper.  On any other team, I think Dale Ellis
would be a sixth man, like Phoenix's Eddie Johnson. Right now, I'd trade him
even up for someone like Gerald Wilkins. 

Brian

    I had the extreme misfortune of attending last night's game against
    Utah.  The Soops lost 119-108, I think it was.  I have now attended
    5 games.  They have lost 4, their only 4 home losses of the year.
    
    Bernie benched Nate and started Avery Johnson to try to jump-start
    the moribund offense.  It didn't help.  They shot 41% from the field.
    They out-rebounded Utah by about 15, but lost the game on shooting
    and at the line.  On the post-game show, the asst coach blamed
    officiating for the loss.  I must say, the game was poorly called.
    Ellis had 8 offensive boards, and several drives, but went to the
    line only 3 times.  Compare that to Malone, who had around 20 free
    throws.  The crowd got pretty ugly after about the 5th obviously
    blown call.  I have no idea why Ellis gets no calls.  
    
    Bright spots: Cage had 19 rebounds, Avery Johnson played very well,
    8 assists, no turnovers, two beautiful passes.  Dana Barros kept them
    in the game with some great shooting in the 4th quarter.  
    
    Dismal spots: Ellis couldn't buy an outside shot again.  Polynice was
    pathetic.  I'd guess 4 points and 5 fouls, mostly to give Utah a three
    point play, or some other unnecessary stupid foul, all in about 10 
    minutes.  Sellers didn't even play.  
    
    The Sonics had better turn it around fast, or they may not make the
    playoffs.  They have lost 3 of 4 at home, and are hopeless on the 
    road.  I think Ellis finding his jump shot will do wonders for the 
    team.  Bernie benching Nate was a good sign.  Maybe he's tired of
    seeing such weak efforts from the starters.  McKey should be next.  He
    just doesn't seem to exert much effort, although he has all the talent
    in the world.  As for Polynice, cut him or trade him for a 3rd rounder.
    He's no good and never will be.  
    
    At least they play Miami tomorrow.  Maybe they'll finally squeek out
    a win.
    
    Pete

    Pete,
    
    You going to the Miami game?
    
    JD

    JD,
    
    No, my next game isn't until Feb sometime, I think.  
    
    What do you think of the Nate benching?  There was no advance notice
    and I still didn't know exactly what happened until I read the paper
    last night.  It seems that Bernie was just unhappy with about 4 lack-
    luster games in a row from Nate and decided to go with Avery Johnson.
    Nate is now slated (believe it or not) as a forward off the bench.
    
    It might work out.  Avery is an excellent passer and good penetrator.
    He hasn't shown much of an outside shot, though.  He has alot of 
    confidence.  He was quoted as saying that the only difference between
    him and Stockton is that Stockton was drafted.  (Avery is a free
    agent).  He's not cocky or arrogant, just confident.  
    
    One thing this will do is free up some more guard time for Dana Barros.
    Maybe if he has more minutes, he won't come off the bench firing up
    3 pointers.  
    
    As for Sellers, it seems like Bernie is pulling a Sedale Threatt with
    him.  When the Sonics traded for Sedale, he wasn't used much at all
    during his first season.  When he felt comfortable with the system,
    Bernie turned him loose and he's become the only reliable reserve they
    have.  The general feeling during the first season was that Sedale was
    a washout.  Maybe the same will happen with Sellers.  
    
    Pete
    

    Pete,
    
    I liked Avery's style - I thought he played real well.  Nate just
    seemed lackluster each time I saw him.  The Sonics are really hurting
    at forward - Nate and Ellis play there at times.
    
    I think it should help Barros' time also.  Johnson and him can both
    fly up and down the court, so it may help tire out the opposition's
    guards.
    
    They really need some quality bench time from someone other than
    Sedale.  Kemp has promise, but is still up and down.
    
    If they don't beat Miami...
    
    JD

The line on Barros from Monday's game at Dallas:

1-12 from the floor, the only bucket a 3-pointer.

    Yeah, Jeff, Dale did indeed get tossed two nights in a row.  The first,
    against Dallas, ended a 300-odd game streak of scoring in double
    figures.  
    
    The Sonics lost both road games.  Their utter incompetence on the road
    is going to cost them a spot in the playoffs if they don't figure it
    out.  Against Dallas, it was just a lack of defense.  They were lazy
    as I've ever seen them.  The effort was there against Houston, but
    they fell short.  They had a lead with a few minutes left, but Akeem
    took over.
    
    A friend was over watching last night and we were hashing over the 
    Sonics troubles.  Here's a team that went to the conference finals
    two years ago, almost hit 50 wins last year, and now the same bunch
    of players is playing .500.  Hard to figure.  Did the rest of the
    league get that much better?  I doubt it.  We agreed that the following
    boners are haunting the Sonics-
    
       1. Letting Chambers get away as an unrestricted free agent.
       2. Not drafting a good point guard when given the chance.
       3. Drafting Polynice with the 8th pick in the draft.
       4. Trading a first round choice for Sellers.
    
    What can be done now?  They have to do something drastic to salvage
    this team.  How about trading Ellis?  He's the oldest on the team
    and it's time they stopped relying on his jump shot.  Barros can shoot
    almost as well (his 1-12 effort notwithstanding) and Ellis could be
    great trade bait to use for a good point guard.  Would NY let
    Strickland go for Ellis?  I haven't seen Strickland play alot, maybe
    Ellis is worth more.  Another idea is to fire Bernie.  He hasn't shown
    an ability to get the players to play to their potential.  It took
    him 3 years to figure out that Nate didn't belong at the point,
    something even the stupidest fan knew long ago. 
    
    I'm getting a little depressed watching these guys play.  After
    suffering through the Mariners and Seahawks, I was hoping for one
    team to have a winning season.
    
    Pete

    Wow, Ellis for Strickland!?  I know Ellis is off to a bad start this
    season, but his stock couldn't have dropped that much.  
    
    A slight correction -- two years ago the Lakers played the Mavericks in
    the conference finals, not the Sonics.
    
    Laker_Ken

    Laker_Ken,
    
    As I said, I really only remember Strickland from college.  Maybe he's
    another Kenny Smith now, I don't know.  I was trying to think of a
    point guard that a team would consider expendable.  Realistically, not
    too many teams would give up a starter of the caliber the Sonics need.
    
    Also, I'm in no way saying that Ellis is the problem.  I'm just trying
    to think of player the Sonics have whose stock is high and who could
    be replaced in the starting lineup.  I'd rather see X pedalled when
    Kemp matures enough to start, but I don't think he's worth much on the
    open market.  
    
    A columnist in the Seattle Times laid out the Sonics draft woes of
    recent years.  In effect, the Sonics gave up Pippen and Horace and 
    Gary Grant for Cage and Sellers.  Not even considering the Polynice
    fiasco, this speaks volumes about the Supes' ineptitude on draft day.
    
    A correction to my previous note-Ellis' streak ended at 256 games in
    double figures, not 300+.
    
    And yes, I think it was three seasons ago the Sonics played in the 
    conference finals, not two years ago.  My mistake.  It was in 1986.
    
    
    Pete
        

    News flash!  I just heard that Dale Ellis ran his car into a telephone
    pole after last night's 29-point performance against Dallas.  He broke
    some ribs.  Looks like Barros will get his chance for some PT.
    
    What is it with Northwest athletes and their driving ability?  Ramos,
    Patrick Hunter of the Seahawks, and now Ellis.  Must be the wet
    streets.
     
    
    Pete

I heard that booze was also involved, as in DWI, as in court appearance. 

Last year, Ellis was in trouble when he wrecked a leased BMW (or some such).
The year before, he was in counselling for physically abusing his wife. 

When he got in that fight in a Houston bar during the '87 playoffs, I thought
it was an aberration. Now I'm beginning to think that, beneath his deadpan
exterior, Dale Ellis is a serious headcase. We're talking serious
passive-aggressive behavior here.

He could stand to learn from X, who takes out his aggressions on the court.

Brian

    Don't forget his wife duking it out with Lister's wife a few years ago,
    too.  Geez, the whole family is nuts.  Another bit of info that has
    come out is that Ellis has about 9 moving violations in the last two
    years or so.  And, the Sonics had a practice scheduled for the next
    morning when he had his 2 AM wreck.  For any Seattlites reading, he
    hit the divider between the entrances to I-5 and the express lanes off
    Mercer St.  You'd have to be pretty hammered to do that.
    
    As I thought might happen, the Sonics responded well to Ellis' absence
    on Sat night.  They beat the Hawks, and played very aggressive and
    tenacious ball.  They moved it around and didn't take stupid shots.
    McKey even showed signs of life, not to mention Sellers.  Maybe the
    Sonics rely a little too much on Ellis and the jumper.  It seems to 
    lull them into complacency.  The year before Chambers took off, the 
    same thing happened.  Chambers was out with an injury and they played
    very well without him, perhaps convincing the front office he wouldn't
    be missed.  I think they were wrong, but I see the possibility of a 
    similar situation developing.  
    
    Unfortunately, this latest episode will diminish Ellis' market value
    substantially.  If there is a bright side to this, there has never
    been any suspicion of drug use by Ellis.  
    
    Estimates are he will be out 6 weeks with 3 cracked ribs and a
    collapsed lung.
    
      
    Pete

    Pete,
    
    I agree, the Sonics did move the ball well vs. the Hawks.  Wild
    first half - 62-61 Hawks.  Yowza.
    
    JD

    Seattle lost to the Lakers last night 100-90.  They were in it until
    the very end, scoring only 2 in the last 2:45.  If McKey and Cage had
    come to play, they might have won it.  They lost it on the boards,
    where Cage should have helped.
    
    I rarely gripe about the refs, but last night was incredible.  A goal
    tending call on Kemp's rebound of Magic's shot was totally bogus.  The
    ball was clearly coming out of the hoop and Kemp grabbed it.  TWEET!
    Magic could NEVER miss a shot.  It must have been goal tending.  Also,
    McKey got called for a foul on Worthy when he was just standing with 
    one hand extended.  He didn't affect the shot at all.  Not to mention
    one sequence when Green must have been in the lane for 10 seconds with
    no call.  It was probably the most one-sided officiated game I have 
    ever seen.
    
    Usually I think Bernie's constant whining about disparities in fouls
    is uncalled for.  Usually, the Sonics get less free throws than their
    opponents because they are content to shoot 18 foot jumpers all night,
    while the other team takes it inside.  However, last night's game films
    should be sent to the league office.  Having a different set of rules
    for rookies and veterans, and for winning and losing teams is unique
    to the NBA.  I'd like to see the outcry if a baseball umpire called
    a guy out at first, although the throw was late, just because he's a
    rookie.  The equivalent happens every day in the NBA.
    
    Pete
    

    You want one-sided officiating?  can't get any better than MSG.
    

It surprising that a Laker fan picks MSG over Boston Garden for bias.

Mike

    Mike:
    
    We Laker fans pride ourselves on our honesty and ability to be
    unbiased.  Wish I could say the same about fans of other teams ;^)
    
    Sameer

Pete or JD,

What is the Sonics guard rotation these days now that Ellis is out?  I imagine
Sedale Threatt has moved into the starting off-guard spot, sharing time with
Barros. But knowing Bernie, he's probably using the opportunity to put 3
forwards on the floor (make that four, since they aint got a center).

Am I right?

Brian

    Brian,
    
    The Sonics have started Avery J. and Sedale since Dale went out,
    with Nate and Dana rotating.  Bernie still uses a 3-guard offense,
    putting Nate at the forward spot - he did use the 4-forward rotation
    vs. the Hawks, mainly because the Hawks were doing the same, playing
    Dominique in the backcourt - Bernie counted with the X-man.
    
    On a side note, Shawn Kemp has been selected for the slam dunk contest.
    None of the perenial powers are entered - no Dominique, no Air,
    no Larry Nance....but Rex Chapman is in..
    
    JD

Seattle used a very interesting guard rotation yesterday.  They started Kemp at
forward alongside McKey and moved McDaniel to the two guard position (see the
box score below).   Unfortunately X had a miserable game (4-12, 3-4 for 11
points) and they got blown out so that experiment may come to an end.  Too bad
because it makes alot of sense (provided Kemp plays well and Sellers picks his
game up a notch).

Threatt has played very well since Ellis went down.

j.



SEATTLE (98) AT PHOENIX (117)

SEATTLE
                                               REBOUNDS
PLAYER           POS  MIN  FGM-FGA  FTM-FTA  OFF-DEF-TOT  AST  PF  ST  TO  PTS
======           ===  ===  =======  =======  ===========  ===  ==  ==  ==  ===

KEMP              F    31    3-7      5-6      1   5   6    0   4   0   5   11
MCKEY             F    32    4-10     2-2      2   3   5    4   2   2   1   10
CAGE              C    25    2-5      3-3      3   5   8    0   2   0   3    7
MCDANIEL          G    30    4-12     3-4      3   1   4    0   2   1   6   11
THREATT           G    28    9-15     3-3      1   3   4    4   4   0   3   21
BARROS                 26    6-10     1-2      0   1   1    3   2   1   2   15
MCMILLAN               26    2-5      1-4      0   3   3    6   3   2   0    5
JOHNSON                13    1-4      2-2      0   3   3    3   4   1   4    4
POLYNICE                7    1-2      1-3      1   3   4    0   2   0   2    3
SELLERS                16    3-5      3-4      0   1   1    0   1   0   0    9
MEENTS                  6    1-2      0-0      0   3   3    0   0   0   0    2

TOTALS                240   36-77    24-33    11  31  42   20  26   7  26   98
                            (.468)   (.727)  TEAM REBS: 14

PHOENIX
                                               REBOUNDS
PLAYER           POS  MIN  FGM-FGA  FTM-FTA  OFF-DEF-TOT  AST  PF  ST  TO  PTS
======           ===  ===  =======  =======  ===========  ===  ==  ==  ==  ===

CHAMBERS          F    39   12-23    10-11     1   3   4    3   3   3   5   34
RAMBIS            F    27    2-4      0-0      6   2   8    2   5   1   0    4
WEST              C    29    4-8      3-5      4   5   9    0   3   0   2   11
HORNACEK          G    37   10-18     2-2      1   5   6    8   2   5   2   22
K JOHNSON         G    30    8-15     6-8      0   2   2    6   1   1   1   22
LANG                   15    2-4      0-0      2   3   5    0   3   0   1    4
BATTLE                 10    2-6      0-0      2   1   3    0   1   0   0    4
MAJERLE                25    4-10     3-4      0   3   3    5   4   4   0   12
GRANT                  13    0-2      2-2      0   0   0    5   2   0   0    2
MORRISON               10    0-4      0-0      1   0   1    1   2   0   0    0
PERRY                   5    1-1      0-0      0   1   1    0   0   0   1    2

TOTALS                240   45-95    26-32    17  25  42   30  26  14  12  117
                            (.474)   (.813)  TEAM REBS: 8

   SEATTLE            16   25   30   27  -   98
   PHOENIX            30   29   28   30  -  117

BLOCKED SHOTS: SEA - KEMP, SELLERS. PHO - WEST 4, CHAMBERS, HORNACEK,
LANG. 
3-PT. FIELD GOALS: SEA 2-5 (.400), KEMP 0-1,
BARROS 2-4. PHO 1-4 (.250), CHAMBERS 0-1, HORNACEK 0-2, MAJERLE 1-1.
OFFICIALS: ED RUSH, ROONEY, GRILLO.
A - 14,487. 

    Along with the X-man at guard experiment, another one has ended.  Avery
    is out as starting point guard and Nate is back in.
    
    Bernie says that not having Ellis in the lineup was the cause of
    Avery's problems running the halfcourt offense.  So, when Ellis
    returns, I wouldn't be surprised to see Avery back in.
    
    Let's face it.  The Sonics don't have a good point guard.  The brief
    experiment with Nate coming off the bench was a success from the
    standpoint that Nate played very well off the bench.  His jumper was
    dropping and he rebounded like an animal (though I can't think of many
    animals that can rebound).
    
    Here's another great idea to improve the Sonics.  Trade McKey for a
    very high draft pick or a point guard.  McKey just shows no signs of
    getting his act together.  The guy has talent to burn, but you just
    don't get the idea he cares one way or the other whether they win or
    lose.  Kemp has a similar game, strong inside with a decent jumper, and
    both can pass.  Kemp is a better rebounder, though.
    
    They signed Jim Farmer, described as a streak shooter and a former #1
    draft pick of Dallas, to fill Ellis' roster spot.
    
    I predicted several replies ago that Kemp would win the slam dunk
    competition.  Now that the heavyweights aren't participating, I don't
    see how he could lose.  What in the world is Rex Chapman doing in
    there?  Let's hope he performs better than Tom Chambers did a few years
    ago.
    
    Pete
    

    the Phoenix - Sonics game was the worst officiated professional
    sporting event I've ever seen.  The Suns absolutely hammered teh
    Sonics, with no calls, while the Sonics were getting called for
    touch fouls and phantom fouls.   Worse than simply 'home cooking'.
    Unreal.
    
    JD

    JD, worse than the Lakers game?  Actually, I taped the game and was
    going to watch it, but I turned it on the radio in my car in the 3rd
    quarter and decided that I couldn't stand to watch another loss on the
    road.  
    
    The Sonics do get less respect from the officials than any other team
    I have seen.  I don't know how many times I have seen Ellis get
    hammered inside with no call.  But, winning would probably help.  The
    winners seem to get the calls.  
    
    Pete

    Pete,
    
    It was painful to watch.  X-man and Cage got hammered inside, no
    call.  Cage gets called for traveling - when he never lifted his
    pivot foot.  Cage gets called for a foul after getting dragged to
    the ground.  And on and on.  Set the tempo early.
    
    JD

    Bernie announced that Nate will once again be the starting point
    guard, sending Avery Johnson back to the bench.  He feels he needs
    Nate's experience, with Dale being out.  The Sonics also signed
    G  jim Farmer from the CBA.  Farmer was a former #1 pick of the
    Dallas Mavericks, and was Derrick McKey's college teammate at Alabama.
    Farmer will be in uniform for tomorrow night's home game vs. the
    Milwaukee Bucks.
    
    JD

    JD,
    
    You gotta read the old notes 8^).  I discussed the Nate-Avery situation
    a few back.  Someone sent me an article from Inside Sports on the X-man
    which contained an interview with him.  He seems to think that the 
    Sonics have the personnel to contend but just need more experience
    together.  Geez, these guys have been together for 3-4 years.  Phoenix
    was a 50 win team the first year Chambers came aboard.  
    
    Pete
    
    P.S. JD, you running at lunch yet?  Somebody almost ran me over coming
    around a corner yesterday.  Thought it might be you, but the manly
    lats were missing.

    Pete,
    
    Read old notes? Why? :-)
    
    As for lunch running - not yet.  Haven't found the facilities guy
    to find out if the annex has a shower (my guess is I won't be allowed,
    since it would open the door to others wanting to use, including
    Boeing folks....)
    
    I've also been stuck at the ACT for most of this month - hopefully
    I can work something out once I get back at the Annex come mid-Feb.
    
    JD

    More grim news for the struggling Soops.  Seems that Sedale Threatt
    broke a bone in his hand in the San Antonio win and will be out for
    4-6 weeks.
    
    Dana Barros is now the starting shooting guard.  He's an incredibly
    streaky shooter.  He'll need to be on most of the time if the Sonics
    hope to avoid elimination from the playoff race in the next month 
    before Ellis and/or Threatt recover.
    
    Pete

Dana was looking pretty good that night against the Bucks.

(Not as good as Fred Roberts though ;^))

They should have a scoreboard that would show replays!!!!

Chainsaw

>    More grim news for the struggling Soops.  Seems that Sedale Threatt
>    broke a bone in his hand in the San Antonio win and will be out for
>    4-6 weeks.
 
Say it aint so!! Threatt scores 30+ Friday night, and now that hot hand is
broken??!!

In the game vs Golden State that was on TNT, I thought it was another case of
the coaching staff spending all its time on creating a defensive plan (shut
down Mullin) at the expense of an offensive plan (deal with Manute, capitalize
on the low-post advantage). 

The Sonics upcoming road games look okay--lots of expansion teams and other
foes about the Sonic's current caliber. Seems to me that's how the Suns got
their winning streak going, until they met up with some over-.500 teams.

I think doug collins summed it up pretty well the other night: Every team in
the NBA is just a ligament away from mediocrity. The Sonics are definitely
cartiledge kids.

Brian

    
    
    Dana Barros doubles his Scoring and assist average.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    NUFF SAID
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    For anyone that returned all the way down here...Ill eat fried worms
    if he doesnt!!!
    
    
    rub

    /Brian,
    
    I, too, was giving a sigh of relief that the Supes could pad their 
    record a bit on this upcoming road trip.
    
    The cold reality set in last night.  I got in my car and turned the
    game on the radio.  They were down by 32 to the Timberwolves, for
    crissakes.  They lost by 28.  Unbelievable!  You should have heard
    the announcers on the post-game show.  I have never heard such a bunch
    of drivel in my life.  I know those guys are on the Sonics' payroll,
    but they should be capable of uttering one comment of mild criticism,
    but they don't.  Oh, gee, the Wolves aren't that bad, oh, gee, the
    Sonics miss Dale and Sedale, oh, gee, there were 24,000 screaming fans.
    Poor Sonics.  How could anybody beat the worst team in the league under
    those conditions?
    
    Barros was pitiful, about 2-11 from the field.  (Sorry, Dana's mom, if
    you're reading this).  I think he'll relax and start shooting like he's
    capable of once he gets comfortable.  Polynice is progressing nicely,
    offering the one bright spot in the game.  Cage is still mired in a
    horrendous slump.
    
    The Sonics do less with more talent than any team in the league.  The
    owner has to face facts and can Bernie.  When he's not destroying the
    confidence of young players, he has the Sonics playing the worst half-
    court offense I've ever seen.  This team was supposedly built for speed
    and the fast break.  I have yet to see them getting any semblance of
    a running game going.  
    
    Disgustedly,
    
    Pete
        

    Yes, I'm a Woof fan and I wanted to speak to the Sonics fans.  Whew!
    Woofs score 21 straight in the third quarter and 39-13 overall enroute
    to a 110-82 blowout!  Woofs actually led by 35 at one point and
    the local announcers heard Bickerstaff say, "I can't believe we're
    down by 35 points to an expansion team!!"  Ya gotta love it!
    
    Woofs have been playing very well lately and prior to the Sacramento 
    blowout win on Monday, had lost their last four by 10? total points.  
    That included a couple of two point losses (one to Detriot) and a one
    pointer.  So, we've been very competitive.
    
    Pooh has come on very strong and now that he is getting increasing
    playing time, his stats are improving.  Last night he had 14 points
    and 12 assists.  The team always seems to get a lift when he comes
    in.
    
    HATS OFF TO OUR TIMBERWOLVES!!!
    
    
    Spud 

�                  -< Celts in tonight, should be a good one >-
    
    Check your schedule again, Spud.  Celts play the 'Wolves tomorrow
    (Friday) night.  The game will be carried by TNT as the first of a
    double header.

Pete, I don't know if I agree with your remark about the Sonics' so-called
abundance of talent.  Most were not stars in the college game and were not
expected to excel in the NBA. Besides X, most of the Sonics's first-round draft
picks have been unpleasant surprises. Many are one-dimensional role players,
rejects from other teams. In many ways, Bernie has got pretty good mileage out
of this "talent."

Look at it another way, though, and you realize the organization has made some
pretty bad drafts, trades, and other roster developments. Look at Scottie
Pippen, now an All Star. As is Chambers (more about him in a minute). Cage, who
cost them a 1st rounder, is a stiff. McKey is a zombie. Etc. (My, aren't I
feeling generous today!)

I think if you start talking about cleaning house, you have to find something
new for Bob Whitsitt to do. He (along with Bernie) share the blame for
squandering the Sonics' draft choices.  

On Chambers:  I can not believe this guy gets named to the All-Star team ahead
of X and Cummings (et al.). He's a talented player, but for a guy whose job is
running down the floor with his hands open waiting for a pass from KJ he can
dunk, Chambers has no excuse for shooting less than 50%.

Brian

    Brian,
    
    You forgot about the biggest stiff of all - Brad Sellers - who also
    cost them a first rounder.
    
    The talent I'm speaking of is basically what got them to the Western
    Conference semis three years ago.  The nucleus of that team is still
    there.  I think that their core of X, McKey and Ellis stack up against
    many teams with better records.  Look at Phoenix.  Of course, KJ makes
    up much of the difference, but I don't think anyone could make a 
    persuasive argument that their roster is more talented, top to bottom,
    than the Sonics'.  
    
    My theory on the wasted trades and drafts is this:  Whitsitt started
    out by making a shrewd move, trading Al Wood for Dale Ellis.  He was
    considered some kind of genius for that one.  He then started making
    very questionable trades and drafted some second rounders
    in the first round, all the while ignoring their glaring weakness at
    point guard.  I think Whitsitt was praying that most of the moves would
    work out, so he could look even smarter while all of his critics looked
    bad.  The reaction to every player move they have made has been
    negative.  Any cretin could have told him that the Sellers trade was
    incredibly moronic.  Bottom line is that Whitsitt has used the team
    to feed his inflated ego, sending the Supes into mediocrity and
    screwing the fans who are so desperate for a winner in Seattle that
    minor league hockey is now the hottest ticket in town.  They outdraw
    the Sonics many nights.
    
    I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but I am very bitter
    at how the Sonics have let a golden opportunity slip away.  First, we
    fans had to watch Lenny Wilkens dismantle the championship team,
    getting absolutely nothing in return (the Dennis Johnson fiasco) and
    now this.  AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH!  Maybe if the Seahawks and Mariners
    weren't so pathetic it would be easier to take.  
    
    Pete

    Ah, the Sonics.  They are playing someseriously bad hoop.
    
    Other than the glaring problem at point guard, the other problem
    is at center.  They don't have one.  Though Olden has played very
    nicely lately.  He could be a good backup.  Cage - he's never been
    more than a rebounding machine who can provide a nice 4th or 5th
    option for the offense.  He isn't a center.  And I think the banging
    with the really big boys has worn him down.  Yeah, Cage is a stud,
    but banging haids with the Ewings of the world is different than
    with the AC Greens. 
    
    Can Kemp be the center of the future?  Who knows.  He seems to have
    the tools, but he is only 20.  A center would free them up to use
    McKey off the bench.  A real point guard would give them Nate off
    the bench.  They'd have a nice rotation.  Instead, they normally
    start a forward at center, a 6th man at forward, and a point guard
    who won't shoot or penetrate - and now with injuries, it's even
    worse.
    
    Sellers was a dumb move.  He has no desire to play inside.  He may
    turn into a nice guy to come in and hit the J.  But who needs a
    7-footer for that?
    
    Oh well, I'll suffer through the rest of my tickets.
    
    JD

    The Sonics actually won on the road last night, 86-84 at Indiana.
    Newly acquired Quinten Dailey scored the winning points, hitting
    foul shots with 7.7 seconds left.   Dailey was signed to a 10-day
    contract, being plunked from the CBA.
    
    Dailey also drew a charging foul on Detlef Schrempf with a second
    left, to ensure the victory.
    
    JD

Good to see Quinten back in the NBA.  I figured it had to be him from the fact
that he put up 14 shots ;^).  I was talking to a friend in Seattle and he told
me that Barros is going to be playing the point and McMillan is either going to
see time at shooting (!) guard or off the bench as a defensive specialist
(since opposing teams are taking Dana to school).  Avery Johnson has dropped
out of sight and Jim Farmer isn't getting any minutes.

Clear as mud, huh?

BTW, here's last night's box.

j.

SEATTLE (87) AT INDIANA (86)

SEATTLE
                                               REBOUNDS
PLAYER           POS  MIN  FGM-FGA  FTM-FTA  OFF-DEF-TOT  AST  PF  ST  TO  PTS
======           ===  ===  =======  =======  ===========  ===  ==  ==  ==  ===

MCDANIEL          F    37    9-21     6-8      4   4   8    0   5   0   4   25
MCKEY             F    36    4-11     2-5      4   4   8    3   3   2   2   10
CAGE              C    32    6-10     4-9      4   8  12    0   3   0   0   16
BARROS            G    20    2-9      0-0      0   1   1    4   1   1   0    4
MCMILLAN          G    33    1-5      2-2      2   4   6    4   4   2   1    4
KEMP                   14    3-5      0-0      3   1   4    0   3   1   0    6
DAILEY                 25    5-14     1-2      0   3   3    3   5   3   2   11
SELLERS                 9    0-1      0-0      0   0   0    1   1   0   1    0
JOHNSON                11    1-1      0-0      0   0   0    1   1   0   1    2
POLYNICE               15    4-6      1-2      1   2   3    1   5   2   1    9
FARMER                  8    0-2      0-0      0   1   1    0   0   0   0    0

TOTALS                240   35-85    16-28    18  28  46   17  31  11  12   87
                            (.412)   (.571)  TEAM REBS: 7

INDIANA
                                               REBOUNDS
PLAYER           POS  MIN  FGM-FGA  FTM-FTA  OFF-DEF-TOT  AST  PF  ST  TO  PTS
======           ===  ===  =======  =======  ===========  ===  ==  ==  ==  ===

PERSON            F    38    3-14     2-2      1   5   6    7   4   2   3    9
THOMPSON          F    33    1-3      0-4      0   9   9    2   6   1   3    2
SMITS             C    18    3-6      2-2      0   2   2    1   6   0   1    8
FLEMING           G    38    6-12     4-6      3   4   7    4   1   1   3   16
MILLER            G    40    9-12     4-5      0   3   3    3   1   2   3   23
SCHREMPF               40    5-8     10-10     2   7   9    2   6   0   4   20
SANDERS                11    2-4      1-2      0   1   1    0   1   0   1    5
GREEN                  11    1-4      0-0      0   1   1    3   0   0   1    2
WITTMAN                 8    0-0      0-0      0   0   0    0   0   0   0    0
DREILING                3    0-0      1-2      0   2   2    0   0   0   0    1

TOTALS                240   30-63    24-33     6  34  40   22  25   6  19   86
                            (.476)   (.727)  TEAM REBS: 11

   SEATTLE            25   19   19   24  -   87
   INDIANA            21   24   21   20  -   86

BLOCKED SHOTS: SEA - MCDANIEL, MCMILLAN. IND - THOMPSON 3, PERSON,
SMITS. 
3-PT. FIELD GOALS: SEA 1-4 (.250), MCDANIEL 1-1,
BARROS 0-3. IND 2-6 (.333), PERSON 1-4, MILLER 1-2.
OFFICIALS: OAKES, R GARRETSON, DEROSA.
A - 12,858. 

    Sonics beat the BUllets for second straight on road, on a McKey
    17-footer at the buzzer.
    
    JD

    The Bullet game was on the tube.  Quite an ugly affair at both ends.
    The Soops showed some gonads for once, though.  McKey played very 
    aggressively.  His stats weren't great, and he missed two jams, but
    he stepped up like he has to.
    
    Dailey's success shows what a farce the Sonics' offense is.  A guy
    can come in, with no practice and fit right in.  All you have to do
    is get the ball and shoot.  He seems to be quite adept at it.  I think
    he was a good acquisition.  He's a little to trigger happy, but I'd
    rather see that than Barros throwing up one brick after another.  He
    was 2-9, and one of his FGs was a layin.  He missed all but one of his
    outside shots (for you non-mathematicians).  He simply has to start 
    shooting better if the Sonics are not to be eliminated from the
    playoffs.
    
    Polynice had another good game.  He was 3-4 from the field, and was
    something like 4-6 in the Indiana game.  He can be quite effective
    when he calms down and doesn't get into foul trouble in the first
    two minutes.
    
    Pete

    They won again on the road!  Amazing!
    
    The score: Sonics 101 Charlotte 100.  
    
    Olden Polynice hit 1 of 2 free throws, then tipped in a miss by Dailey,
    who had rebounded Olden's second free throw miss, to seal the victory.
    Charlotte inexplicably did not foul the Sonics in the last 17 seconds 
    after a Gilliam layin had brought them to within 1.
    
    Some interesting stats: 
    
    Kemp 9 points and 9 rebounds in 14 minutes.
    Barros 5-11 from the field and 5 rebounds.
    Polynice 3-5 from the field, 6 rebs in 17 minutes.
    
    Once again, Bernie's rotation was hard to figure.  He basically played
    Kemp in the second quarter, when he had ALL of his points and rebs, and
    then only a couple of minutes in the rest of the game.
    
    Pete

    Last night the Soops lost to Portland at home 110-106.  It was a great
    game.  The Sonics lost it at the free throw line, and by missing
    several layins, especially by Olden Polynice.  McKey had zero points
    in the first half, which didn't help, either.  X-man had a great game,
    35 points.  Barros had a very good game, too, with around 20 points.
    Nate McMillan had about 15 assists also.
    
    A very questionable call at the end of the game hurt the Sonics badly.
    The game was tied with about a minute left and McKey grabbed an
    offensive rebound, but was hammered and went down.  No foul!  Portland
    got the ball and the game was theirs.  X got off a 3 pointer with about
    10 seconds to go that would have tied it up, but it was off the rim.
    Another free throw by Portland and the game was over.  
    
    An article in the Seattle Times before the All Star game graded the 
    team, from the president down.  Here they are:
    
      Bob Whitsitt (President)    C
      Bernie Bickerstaff          C
      Dana Barros                 C+
      Michael Cage                B
      Dale Ellis                  C-
      Avery Johnson               B+
      Shawn Kemp                  B
      Xavier McDaniel             A
      Derrick McKey               C+
      Nate McMillan               C- (B+ in 6th man role)
      Scott Meents                C
      Olden Polynice              D+
      Brad Sellers                D
      Sedale Threatt              B     
      
    My impressions: they were too easy on Whitsitt, Bernie and Avery
    Johnson, and on Sellers, who deserved an F-.  They were too hard on
    Polynice, and about right on everyone else.  
    
    Pete
    

RE. -1

Thanks for the report on the Portland game. How did Barros get his 20
points--jumpshots, or driving to the basket? I'd like to see him do more of the
latter, with the appropriate dish to an open man as necessary.

Are there any rumors in Sonics land about trades? Is this team really going to
try to make it in the 2nd half with this team?  I guess on the positive side it
could be said that finishing 1 game under .500 at the All-Star break is decent
considering how bad these guys have played (and how injury-prone they've been).

RE. the grades:  why does Sedale only get a B?  Why doesn't K.C. Jones get
graded? (What is HE contributing to the club?)

Brian

    Brian,
    
    Barros got his points mostly on jumpers.  He was 3-8 on the threes.
    He had one beautiful drive in the second half where he had to bank
    it gently off the top part of the backboard, since anything lower would
    have been blocked.  He's not driving as much as he could, but he's
    teamed with Nate who does most of the driving.
    
    No trade talks at all.  Wussoid Whitsitt says that any trade now would
    be made from a weak position (with the injuries) and probably wouldn't
    help.  
    
    Funny you should mention KC.  No news on him at all.  I haven't read
    or heard a single word on what he's contributing.  Coverage in the
    local papers has been pretty weak.  Only the Seahawks appeal to the
    unwashed masses, I guess.  
    
    The commentary on Sedale:
    
    "B-Threatt, with his quick hands and scoring ability in transition, had
    his NBA best season last year mostly because of his role in the
    Sonics' array of pressure defense.  That was shown again after Ellis
    went down, the Sonics had to get more from transition offense, and
    Threatt scored more than 20 points a game before breaking his right
    hand Jan. 28.  But early in the season he was not as effective, as
    coaches emphasized half-court defense."
    
    I gotta admit that I'd just as soon see them miss the playoffs as
    squeek in and get hammered in the first round.  They desperately need
    a point guard.  That would allow Nate to come off the bench, where he
    has been extremely effective.  If they miss the playoffs, Bernie might
    also get the axe, which would help.  I haven't heard a word about that
    being considered, though.  I don't think it will happen.  Bernie's
    worst trait is how he destroys the confidence of players.  Take Olden
    Polynice.  He arguably has the talent to become a decent center, but
    if he has one bad game, he's riding the pine for days.  Just when Avery
    Johnson was becoming a fairly good point guard, he gets yanked from the
    lineup.  The non-starters play in fear.  They know that a couple of
    mistakes will send them to the doghouse.  
    
    Pete

For Sonics fans:

	Dana Barros + Layups = Fahrvergn�gen!

Go Dana!

Chainsaw

    Hey, 'Saw, I'll bet you have the hots for the girl that sings that
    obnoxious Volkswagen song on the radio, too.  Will she replace Kelly
    Bundy as the one to cure your flaccidity?
    
    Pete

Pete, I haven't heard it actually.  The last Volkswagen (properly
pronoucned "folksvagen") song I heard was really catchy.  I think
it was called "Kleine GTI"....

No one, excepting perhaps Kirstie Allie or Elle MacPherson, could
make me give up Kelly....  and they would have to call me up ;^)

Chainsaw

>No one, excepting perhaps Kirstie Allie or Elle MacPherson, could
>make me give up Kelly....  and they would have to call me up ;^)
    
    Stick with Elle!  Kelly's body with much longer legs!  sigh...
    
    Speaking of which, anyone see the SI calenders on the CDA Viewer that
    some disturbed person scanned in?  WOW!  I sure love DECwindows!
    
    Mike

    re: .61
    
    Yeah, the GTI tune was pretty good.  The Fahrvergn�gen song is a little
    more Abba-like dreck.  It's catchy, but I can tell if I hear it a dozen
    or so times more, I'll scream.  The singer does a nice "Aaaaaaaahhhhhh"
    bit, though.  Maybe it's Nena, who did that "99 Luft Balloons" song a
    few years ago.
    
    You might have some luck with Elle.  I saw her husband on some show
    once.  What a geek!  He was short and ugly.  Geez, how did he luck
    out?  But, I've heard she's been seen with someone else lately.  I
    can't remember who, it was some celebrity-type.  
    
    And, there's always Ivana Trump.  She's not too bad, especially if
    you consider her cash.  But, really, 'Saw, you need one of the 
    rugged-type mountain wimmin that live on the Olympic Peninsula out
    here.  Next time you're in Seattle, take a side trip to Forks or
    Neah Bay.  You'll find plenty of hard-workin', hard-lovin' babes over
    there who set log chokers by day and choke your chicken by night.
    
    Pete 

    The Supes have turned into road animals lately.  
    
    They have won 5 of their last 6 on the road, and had the 6th in the
    bag before giving it away.  That was against Philly last Friday night.
    They had the ball with a 2-point lead and 13 seconds left.  Barros
    threw away a pass.  Philly scored and the game went into OT.  The
    Sonics scored the amazing total of zero point in the OT and lost. X
    was 0-6 in the OT.
    
    But, on to happier games.  All of the wins have admittedly been against
    weak teams (except Indiana), but the way they have been playing has
    been very encouraging.  They're playing great defense, Barros is
    getting much more comfortable in the offense, and McKey has been
    assertive, posting up a lot more than usual.  He came out looking like
    Charles Barkley against Charlotte, but tailed off to his usual sleep-
    walking style by the second quarter.
    
    I agree with an article in the paper yesterday - that Ellis' injury has
    been good for the team.  They no longer have him to rely on in a tough
    spot, so they are figuring out how to do it without him.  I will be
    very interesting to see how they do once Dale returns in a few weeks.
    
    Pete
    

    Pete, Brian, et al,
    
    Heard on the news this morning driving to work that Bernie is going
    to keep Dale on the bench when he returns, and continue to start
    Barros.  Bernie said Ellis will have to earn his way back into the
    starting lineup.
    
    JD

    The Supes won again last night.  No details except that they got
    the W.
    
    JD

    The score was 117-102.  Some impressive performances (at least on
    paper) were: Barros 21 pts on 9-19 shooting (3-5 threes), Kemp 7-8 from
    the field and 8 rebounds in only 18 minutes (5 offensive boards),
    McMillan 17 assists, Dailey 12 pts in 11 minutes, McDaniel 27 pts,
    Polynice 3-3 from the field, 5 boards in 13 minutes.
    
    The rookies are doing a job.  Barros is looking like a serious player
    lately and Kemp will be a force in another year or two.  
    
    Ellis should be back in 3 weeks.  The way they're playing without him,
    let him ride the bench.  It would be a shame if Dailey was sent back
    to the CBA once Ellis and Threatt are back.  Farmer won't be a big
    loss, but Dailey has added a bit of heart to the team.
    
    My vote to get the axe: Avery Johnson if it needs to be a guard, or
    Meents or Sellers if it doesn't.  Avery's a good backup, but the
    Sonics already have a point guard who can't shoot.
    
    Pete
    
    

    This morning, I heard some news on the radio.  Xavier McDaniel is out
    indefinitely after arthroscopic surgery on his knee.
    
    Brad Sellers was traded to Minnesota for center Steve Johnson.
    
    Pete

    Ha ha ha, I just LOVE that personal_name, Pete.   :*) :*)
    
    Lee

RE: Pete in -2:

WHAT???!!! Was X's surgery to correct some chronic problem, or did he get
injured recently?  If it's the former, maybe he'll only be out a week or so.  
    
Too bad, since the Sonics seem ready to go on a roll and gel w/o Ellis. NOw
they have to make yet another adjustment. I imagine Johnson will see playing
time immediately, with Cage at power forward and McKey at small forward. Maybe
move Nate in some at small forward, too, and let Polynice and Kemp sub in at
forward and center.

Sounds like Barros had another good game in Miami? Maybe the kid is finally
getting comfortable.

>    Brad Sellers was traded to Minnesota for center Steve Johnson.
 
This is great news. Once Duckworth came into his own and made the other guys
expendable, I always wondered why the Sonics didn't go after one of the big men
from Portland. I guess it was because Portland wouldn't make the trade to a
team in their own division. This works out just fine: a center who can score!!
And Sellers, who never found a place on the team, can go back to a Big Ten
coach. May be a good place for him to blossom (how many times can you keep
saying that though?).

Does anybody have have Johnson's career stats?  How old is he anyway?

Brian

Here's the scoop on McDaniel.  Interesting lineup last night as McMillan
started at forward with Barros at the point and Dailey at guard.  Also, Dailey
was signed for the rest of the season.

SONICS' MCDANIEL OUT 4-6 WEEKS AFTER KNEE SURGERY
-------------------------------------------------

Seattle SuperSonics forward Xavier McDaniel underwent
successful arthroscopic surgery Friday on his right knee and is
expected to be out of action for the next four to six weeks.  

McDaniel had the medial lateral meniscus in his knee repaired.
McDaniel aggravated the knee in Wednesday's 92-85 win over
Miami.  

The 6-foot-8 McDaniel is averaging 22.8 points and 6.4 rebounds
this season.  He has averaged at least 20 points in each of the
last three seasons.  

The Sonics are already without guards Sedale Threatt and Dale
Ellis until at least late February.  Threatt has a broken bone
in his right hand and Ellis suffered fractured ribs and a
collapsed lung in a car accident.  

    re: .70
    
    Brian,
    
    Sorry for the delay in answering.  SPORTS was inaccessible for a couple
    of days, then, earlier today, I wrote a lengthy reply.  When I went to
    enter it, the link was lost and I was hosed again.
    
    Here's an abbreviated version of my earlier note.  Jeff's right, X got
    officially injured in the Miami game, but it was in the Philly game a
    few days earlier when he aggravated an old injury.  His teammates
    noticed him limping a little.  The news of his surgery was a complete
    surprise.  
    
    It looks like Ellis will be out a little longer than expected, until
    about mid-March.  So, Sedale should be back first, then Ellis, then X.
    
    One thing I noticed while at the Golden State game Sunday: X and Sedale
    were on the bench, but Ellis was nowhere to be seen.  What the hell, if
    Barros continues to play like he has been (great, that is), Ellis will
    not be missed.  Barros can shoot almost as well, and is a much better
    defender.  The only thing he lacks in comparison to Ellis is
    rebounding.
    
    Brian, Steve Johnson is 33 years old.  Even given his age, there is no
    way he could be worse than Sellers.  Sellers will never amount to much
    in the NBA, given the fact that he's a wimp and always will be.  He's
    been given plenty of opportunity to prove himself and has been a dismal
    failure.
    
    Pete

    next time the net hoses you, go back into SPORTS and do a REPLY/LAST.

    Dana is responding to the starting role, and Dailey has been a positive
    influence on the team.  Everyone is getting minutes (even Meents),
    and all in all, the team is playing better, because they are playing
    like a team.  I noticed when Dale was in their earlier in the year,
    that for long stretches the team would just give him the ball and
    hope he scored.  X's injury also serves as a test for McKey - he
    has to puff his chest out and be the go-to MAN inside.  
    
    Kemp is getting more time, and is closing in on getting more field
    goals than personal fouls.  Sonics are on the road vs. The Clippers
    tonight, then play the Lakers tomorrorow night at the Colesium -
    I expect them to beat the Clips, but I expect to watch the Lakers
    win easily tomorrow night.
    
    JD

Okay Sonics fans. What's been happening this past week? Losses on the road to 
LA Clippers and Lakers, then a win at home against the 'wolves, and then a loss
down in Portland.  

Looks like Ellis and McDaniel weren't vestigal organs after all. But, on the
positive side, looks from the boxscores like Polynice has been playing some
good minutes, and Nate has been hitting threes with abandon!  Any other bright
spots?  How has Steve Johnson fit into things?  I would think he'd help Cage's
game, but the stats so far don't show it.  

And when will the wounded start to return to the line-up?

Brian

    
    	You mean the losses to the Lakers and Blazers ain't evident???
    8^)
    
    sean

    .75:
    
    Sonics lost at *home* to the Lakers, not on the road as you mentioned.
    
    In any case, I think they have been playing a lot better than people
    expected.  When they get X, Ellis and Threatt back they could be
    wildcards in the playoffs.
    
    Sameer

	Yeah, Seattle isn't that bad.  They'll most likely finish the
    season over .500 and when Xman returns there will be skin on the
    rim once again.
    
    sean

    Brian,
    
    I was at the Laker game.  SOnics were up, then Lakers whipped them
    in the 3rd quarter. Sonics went cold, the whistle started blowing,
    and then Sonics made run at end, coming up short.  Like the additions
    of Steve Johnson, who actually gives them a low post threat.  MckEy
    played not too great - but Barros had a nice game.  Matchups killed
    em, as Olden just isn't quick enough to guard Worthy.
    
    I think they miss Threatt, and also Ellis, but without Ellis, the
    team does less standing around then before.  I think they will have
    a nicely rounded team nexted year, as Barros and Kemp mature.  I
    shant be surprised to see Dale marketed around.  THere have gotto
    be some teams interested in a guy who can score 25+ a game.
    
    JD

    Yeah JD, that 3rd quarter was hideous, wasn't it?  The Sonics were
    5-25 in the quarter, and the Lakers scored 18 straight at one point.
    The Sonics missed 14 in a row in the quarter.  Other than that, they
    played a great game.  I couldn't believe Nate hitting all the 3s.  He
    was actually shooting with some confidence.
    
    As far as the return of the injured, Sedale could be back tonight for 
    the Cleveland game.  Ellis is another week or two away, and I haven't
    heard about X.
    
    It'll be interesting to see who gets the axe when all three are back.
    Dailey started out playing well, but has been tossing up bricks lately
    and disrupts the team's flow with his never-saw-a-shot-he-didn't-like
    style.  Farmer is hard-nosed and can shoot.  Avery is at the far end of
    the bench now and could be a candidate, too.
    
    Steve Johnson, when he gets into shape, will be a tremendous help.  He
    plays smart-knowing what to do to get the ball in the hole.  He made 
    some nice little moves in the Laker game to get off shots that Polynice
    would have had blocked into the 20th row.
    
    Brian, I agree that Ellis might get dumped.  There was a long
    front-page article on him in the Sunday Seattle Times.  It was mostly
    a look at his past and how is is worshipped as a hero in Marietta,
    Georgia.  It was, in typical Times-fashion, weak in any insights or
    revelations about his current troubles.  If it's any consolation, his
    mom says this latest incident will be the last.  Right, mom.  Barros
    has shown he can play shooting guard.  The Supes should package Ellis
    with their first round pick for a shot at Gary Payton, or another elite
    point guard.  
    
    Pete

< Note 89.79 by RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JO "What do women really want?" >
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

To visit Tukwila.....

    How is Steve Johnson playing in the Great Northwet (tm) now?  What is
    his playing time average (minutes/game)?
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    Don't have his numbers - but in the games I've seen him, he's looked
    good.  He gives the Sonics a legit low post player.  Something they
    haven't had all season.  He makes the opponents center work.
    
    I think he'll be a big help nexted year.
    
    JD

    Anyone (Jeff?) have Steve Johnson's Seattle stats (say that 5 times
    fast) for an FBA'er?
    
    Mike

>>    Anyone (Jeff?) have Steve Johnson's Seattle stats (say that 5 times
>>    fast) for an FBA'er?

Player                G  MIN   FG  FGA   FG%   FT  FTA   FT%
S. JOHNSON (TOT)     12  150   26   53  .491    9   17  .529
S. JOHNSON (SEA)      8  133   26   51  .510    9   17  .529

Player               3FG 3FGA OREB TREB  AST STL  TO BLK  PF  PTS  AVG
S. JOHNSON (TOT)       0    0   13   30    9   1  19   3  30   61  5.1
S. JOHNSON (SEA)       0    0   13   27    8   1  13   3  26   61  7.6

    Sonics beat teh Magic Monday night 130-105, in one of the most boring
    games I've ever seen.
    
    Magic actually led at halftime, and were up by as many as 9, before
    they totally fell apart.  They are really horrible.
    
    Meanwhile, Dale Ellis made his  return, and delighted the folks
    in attendance by canning 24 points.  He looked good.  Barros played
    well, and the team simply ran all over Olando in the second half.
     The Magic simply quit after they lost their lead.  No one played
    decently.  Though Marc Acres did commit a few fouls and miss a couple
    of easy shots.
    
    JD

>>    Meanwhile, Dale Ellis made his  return, and delighted the folks
>>    in attendance by canning 24 points.  He looked good.

Actually, Ellis' return was the game before, where he had 7 points and 6
turnovers in 20 minutes of action.

Barros was 2-10 from three-point range the other night.

j.

    Jeff,
    
    I meant his home town debut.  Dale had a big press conference where
    he apologized for letting the team, the town, and the kids down.
    
    The one thing about Dana - he isn't shy about shooting, and no
    one is criticizing him for it.  
    
    The Sonics used mostly a 3 guard, 2 forward lineup all night - rotating
    Kemp, Cage, McKey, Johnson, and Polynice up front, and Dana, Dale,
    Nate, Farmer and Sedele in the backcourt.
    
    JD
    

    The Sonics got their butts whipped last night by San ANtonio.  The
    
    Sonics came out shooting cold, and stayed that way.
    
    The lack of a true center kilt them, as they tried matching up Derrick
    McKey on Robinson, but he gave up too much height and bulk.
    
    A bright, bright spot was Shawn Kemp, who scored 20 points and pulled
    down 5 boards in 20 minutes of play - and he had a couple of 
    spectacular moves.
    
    The Spurs will have trouble in the playoffs however, because they
    have no, as in none, as in nada, bench.  Frank Brickowski is the
    first guy off the bench.  Yippee (Frank almost got hisself kilt
    by trying to pick a fight with Michael Cage - Cage wouldda chewed
    him up). Then they have Wingate (defensive pressure) and Johnny
    Moore.  Strickland seemed to run the show pretty well, but he got
    his bell rung big time - he ran into a pick and he almost died.
    It was funnier than the Sonics Gals...
    
    JD

    Did Steve Johnson play?  You would think he'd start by now!

    For some reason, Johnson got buried last night, played only 5 minutes.
    With Ellis,Threat,x-man, and Dailey all getting off the IR in the
    last week or so, Bernie's shuffling lineups all over the place.
    
    For instance, he started Barros, Nate, and Sedale, wif Cage and
    McKey last night.  FOr a real hoot, he had Nate jump center wif
    Robinson.
    
    JD

    re: .91
    
    Actually, JD, that was Barros jumping center.  He's done it the last
    couple of games.  Theory is that the Supes will have an extra big guy
    to grab the tip.  Only problem is that it's been a dismal failure, 
    reflecting the entire Sonics' season.
    
    Interesting side-note.  Ellis missed the team plane down to Golden
    State last week.  This is the new, improved, dedicated Ellis?  He did
    have a good game, though, but he sucked big-time against San Antonio.
    
    Anyone else notice that when Ellis is in the lineup, the team stops
    playing defense?  I agree with Steve Kelley (Seattle Times columnist).
    They gotta package Ellis with another pick and move up in the draft. 
    If they don't get a point guard, they will be mired in mediocrity for
    the foreseeable future.  They also have to figure out a way to get
    McKey to play with a little intensity.  You have to wonder if Bernie's
    days are numbered in Seattle.  
    
    Barros can handle the shooting guard responsibilities just fine.  His
    only problem is his low %.  He's only had a couple of 50% games all
    year, and his 3-11 or 5-18 night are all too common.  He went to the
    X-man "Shoot your way out of your slump" school.  By the time those
    guys shoot their way out of their slumps, the game's over.
    
    On the bright side, the Mariners have started spring training.  At
    least they don't disappoint you.  You know they'll stink and they 
    always do.  
    
    
    Pete

    Pete,
    
    It was Barros, wasn't it.  I was walking to my  seat with beer in
    hand and glanced and couldn't believe.  Then again, I caint believe
    some of the lineups Bernie tries.  Dana did come out firing - missed
    his first 3 shots - all 3 pointers, then hit his 4th shot, another
    3 pointer.
    
    Dale is a matador on defense.  The other night the offense seemed
    more one on one than it was when X and Dale were out.   
    
    JD

�    It was Barros, wasn't it.  I was walking to my  seat with beer in
�    hand and glanced and couldn't believe.  Then again, I caint believe

Sure it wasn't iced tea JD????
    
�    Dale is a matador on defense. 

Bull  8^)


'Saw

Tonight's game saw X and Ellis in the starting lineup for the first time
together since Ellis' incident.  It didn't work out very well for the first
three quarters, as Denver was up 98-93.  But Seattle outscored Denver 32-20 in
the final frame to take the game 125-118.  Kemp had another good game for the
Sonics, as did JBC for Denver.  Blair Rasmussen didn't miss a single shot from
the field as he turned in one of his best performances of the year.

j.

DENVER (118) AT SEATTLE (125)

DENVER
                                               REBOUNDS
PLAYER           POS  MIN  FGM-FGA  FTM-FTA  OFF-DEF-TOT  AST  PF  ST  TO  PTS
======           ===  ===  =======  =======  ===========  ===  ==  ==  ==  ===

ENGLISH           F    30   10-20     0-0      1   4   5    3   1   2   0   20
SCHAYES           F    28    3-8      8-8      3   6   9    0   5   0   2   14
CARROLL           C    33    9-18     4-4      5   4   9    2   2   1   3   22
ADAMS             G    39    5-10     0-0      0   2   2    5   2   2   2   12
LEVER             G    43   11-18     1-3      1   3   4    4   1   1   3   23
HANZLIK                18    0-2      0-0      2   1   3    2   1   1   0    0
LICHTI                 14    3-5      5-6      1   0   1    1   4   0   1   11
DAVIS                  31    7-15     0-0      0   2   2    4   1   1   1   14
RASMUSSEN               4    1-1      0-0      0   0   0    0   0   0   0    2

TOTALS                240   49-97    18-21    13  22  35   21  17   8  12  118
                            (.505)   (.857)  TEAM REBS: 10

SEATTLE
                                               REBOUNDS
PLAYER           POS  MIN  FGM-FGA  FTM-FTA  OFF-DEF-TOT  AST  PF  ST  TO  PTS
======           ===  ===  =======  =======  ===========  ===  ==  ==  ==  ===

MCDANIEL          F    35   11-18     2-2      2   5   7    4   2   2   3   24
MCKEY             F    29    5-14     0-0      1   5   6    1   5   0   0   10
CAGE              C    35    8-11     1-2      3  12  15    0   1   3   2   17
ELLIS             G    37   10-20     0-0      1   1   2    4   1   1   2   21
MCMILLAN          G    32    2-5      0-0      4   4   8   16   3   0   3    4
BARROS                 17    2-7      4-4      0   0   0    4   2   0   0    8
THREATT                23    6-10     7-8      0   0   0    2   3   0   1   19
POLYNICE               13    4-5      0-0      2   2   4    0   2   1   0    8
KEMP                   19    6-9      1-2      5   4   9    1   4   0   3   14

TOTALS                240   54-99    15-18    18  33  51   32  23   7  14  125
                            (.545)   (.833)  TEAM REBS: 3

   DENVER             30   37   31   20  -  118
   SEATTLE            36   28   29   32  -  125

BLOCKED SHOTS: DEN - CARROLL 2, SCHAYES. SEA - KEMP 3, MCDANIEL,
CAGE. 
3-PT. FIELD GOALS: DEN 2-6 (.333), ADAMS 2-3, LEVER 0-2,
DAVIS 0-1. SEA 2-7 (.286), ELLIS 1-5, BARROS 0-1, KEMP 1-1.
OFFICIALS: STROM, CAPERS, REICHELT.
A - 9,830. 

    Steve Johnson was a DNP again?  What a waste!

    Mike,
    
    I don't know why Johnson isn't playing.  When they first got him,
    he was playing some quality minutes.  I haven't read the Local paper
    in  a few days, so I don't know if there's a reason for it.
    
    Kemp is really playing well - 14 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks in
    19 minutes.  Perhaps that's the reason for Johnson's diminished
    PT.
    
    JD

    Mike,
    
    I DO know why Johnson isn't playing.  It's because he plays well when
    he gets in.  It's a well-known ploy of Bernie's.  If someone is playing
    well, you must play him 30 minutes one night, and then give him a DNP
    in the very next game.  Repeat this until his confidence is destroyed,
    and he wonders what he did to deserve the benching.  Do this with every
    player on the team, except the starters.  For them, you let them play
    their 32 minutes every night, even if they put forth no effort, like
    Derrick McKey.  
    
    Enough bitterness for now.  Oh, wait.  Did anybody see Sat. night's
    game against Phoenix.  Good christ.  Chambers scored 60 points.  The
    Soops look like they won't make the playoffs.  I guess Bernie and
    Whitsitt can quit their bragging about how the team has improved their
    record every year since Bernie's been coach.  They now have a new
    refrain.  It goes something like "it's a miracle we're even in the
    playoff race with all of the injuries we've had."  This conveniently
    ignores the fact that the Sonics played extremely well without the
    injured players.  If they had lost most of those games, but were still
    in the race, their argument might hold some water.  Ellis and X, along
    with McKey, are playing horrible ball right now.  McKey should be
    benched and Kemp should be the starter.  He's had about 5 straight
    great games.  Oh, wait.  That means he should not get off the bench
    for a week or so.  My mistake.
    
    Pete

    Does anyone know Seattle's record while Ellis was out of the
    line-up, and their record since he came back?  I have a feeling
    they played better without him, but I'm not sure the facks (tm)
    back me up.
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    NAZZ

    Ellis & Seattle : Wilkins & Atlanta

    Nazz,
    
    I'm pretty sure they played better wifout him.  Mike H. hits it
    right on the head.  I'd like to see em trade Dale for some quality.
    
    
    JD

    Jeff,
    
    Dale Ellis was unconcsious in the first half, scoring 23.  Tellya
    the troof, I didn't see Barros at all.  I had the game on, and the
    stereo, so I didn't hear any commentary.  Typical Sonics game. 
    
    JD

    re: Barros with 4 minutes.
    
    See my previous reply a few back.  Bernie has a new victim for his
    confidence-destroying vendetta.
    
    He only got in at the very end of the game when they needed some 3
    point firepower.
    
    The Sonics played an excellent game for 3 quarters and got blown away
    in the 4th.  Even with the pathetic performance of the team of late,
    there is a silver lining.  Shawn Kemp is starting to emerge as a
    potential superstar in the league.  The last 4 or 5 games, he hasn't
    looked like the raw rookie of the early season.  He's now dropping in
    some 15 foot J's when the drive isn't there, and just showing
    all-around good judgement.  He can rebound very well and pass as well
    as almost any forward in the league.  
    
    The Sonics could possibly gel very well next year IF they can draft a
    quality point guard.  
    
    They are now only one game up on GS for the last playoff spot.  But, 8
    of their final 13 games are at home, so they should make it.  All this
    for the right to get blown away by the Lakers in the first round.  
    
    Pete

    Ellis scores 36; Sonics lose.  Bernie, get a clue!  You're not
    going to be any better than 8th anyway, so tell Dale to take a
    rest for the remainder of the season, and play the rookies (and
    Polynice) - let them show they deserve to play.
    
    NAZZ

< Note 89.103 by RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JO "He had hallugeon(tm) headlights!" >
    
   > Dale Ellis was unconcsious in the first half, scoring 23.  Tellya
    
     That what got Dale in trouble a few weeks back isn't it?

     daryll

    Well I saw Supersonics all over the place yesterday.  Went to the
    airport to pick up a friend, and in typical fashion, I couldn't
    remember what airline or flight she was taking, so I wandered around
    the baggage claim area, when I ran into these  3 large gentleman
    (Derrick McKey, Olden Polynice, Shawn Kemp) who were razing this
    smaller guy about getting their baggage (Jim Farmer), I said hi
    to all of em and shook hands.   I finally found my friend and we
    went for lunch.  I saw this bombshell, I mean the nicest put together
    women I've ever seen.  I was drooling.  She walked to the back of
    the restaurant, past me, and sat in the table two away.  Next, this
    large, muscular guy (Micheal Cage) comes in and sits with her.
    Cage is immense.  He looks like he was chisled from granite.  I
    didn't say anything to him, and to the credit of the rest of the
    folks in the restaurant, everyone left him alone.  No autograph
    hounds or well-wishers, etc.  Heck, I wouldn't want his autograph,
    but I would've have taken the women's.  :-)
    
    JD

    Hey, JD, lemme guess.  Olden's luggage came around the conveyor, he
    grabbed for it, but missed the handle.  He lunged after it, but 
    accidentally knocked someone else's bag off the conveyor.  He picked
    it up and tried to lay it up on the baggage claim again, but it fell
    short.  When somebody else put it back for him, Olden inadvertently
    hammered him in the face with a forearm.
    
    
    You probably haven't been around town long enough to remember Slick
    Watts too well, but I used to see him playing tennis at a local Jr.
    High school with a woman who sound like she could have been Cage's
    friend's sister.  She was awe-inspiring.  And Slick's butt ugly.  She
    also kicked his a#* in tennis pretty bad.  He did his best to stay
    in the matches, mostly by calling her shots out when they were clearly
    in.  We should go on Letterman with our "brushes with greatness".
    
    Pete

I've had a few brushes with greatness myself.  Probably one of the
most awe inspiring was meeting Buddy Rich, but that's another tale.

Personally, I think JD should have offered to trade women.  Heck,
he could have even tossed in a WTBNL, and some iced tea....

'Saw

    Pete,
    
    TOO FUNNY about Olden.
    
    Steve - hey, the women I was with was 'powdering' her nose, so I
    was free to ogle!!!
    
    JD

    But how did she compare to Marina?

    > But how did she compare to Marina?
    
    I don't think JD knows what Marina looks like with clothes on.  Heck, I
    bet he don't even remember her hair color......  :-0
    
    H�wk

    Well, her body was Marina like.  She had oh so tight gut off jeans,
    and a t-shirt that was cut off, so that is just hung off of her
    chestial protusions (tm) (which were of the Marina quality) her
    hair was on her head.  Her legs were long and amazingly enticing.
    Marina had hair on her haid, and other places, also ;-0)
    
    JD

    
    Shouldn't that be: chestial Protrugeons?
    

    
    	no no no no.. they're called:
    
    	mamallian protruberances.
    
    	hope this helps,
    
    sean

Marina, a female stripper came out on stage at the Golden Banana in front of
a dozen horny DEC SPORTS noters, wearing only three veils, strategically 
placed. The noters went wild as she started doing her dance. When she took 
and threw the first veil away a thunderous roar went up from the likes of JoJ,
Walt, JD and the rest of the horny noters.  Eating this up, Marina started to 
really get into her act. As the second veil was tossed aside a tumultuous roar 
went up from the sportsters, thousands of catcalls and pleas to continue could 
be heard everywhere. Marina then went into her special act and really started 
putting on a show, building and building up to her climax. When she finally 
threw the third and last veil away, there was dead silence. She couldn't 
believe her ears, here she was in front of a dozen horny SPORTS noters, 
without a stitch of clothing on, and they were dead. She looked out over the 
noters and said,"What's the matter with you guys, don't you like women? Why 
aren't you clapping?" A voice from the crowd, sounding just like Dan, shouted 
out, "Lady, clearly, it's pretty hard to clap with just one hand !! "

Look, I'm going to tell you once and for all, the proper reference
to those "things" are Hooters.  It was quite plainly stated by
Steven Martin one time on SNL, that henceforth and forever they would
be referred to as Hooters...

Okay?

Sheesh.  

Chainsaw

    
    	Wait... I thought Marina was Martina?  (as in Navratilova)
    
    sean

    'Saw, this one still has me rolling everytime I think of it......  In
    an episode of MWC, Al Bundy was talking hooters to his next door
    neighbor........
    
    	"I think women should have 3 hooters.......one in the back......
    	 for dancing!"
    
    :-)
    
    H�wk

    Thanks Hawk for the Marina story!  I'm ROLLWARD!!

    Hawkster!  Stop it!  You're killing me!
    
    For all of you not in the know, they are offishilly called
    
                   MAJOR LEAGUE YABAHOOS
    
    Get it right willya......
    
    Claybone

    this note definitely brings back mammories.
    
    JoJ

    No, the one with the other hand balancing the buck on his nose...

    	Damn Jim, you didn't do that geeky thing and put a dollar over
    your nose, did you?
    
    				/Don

RE: Pete, prior to the diversion about Cage's girlfriend:

Yes, I'm still alive, but are the Sonics?  

Can they hold off Golden State and Houston and make the playoffs? More
importantly, SHOULD they?  Personally, I think getting into the playoffs this
year is very important for the Sonics. It will do loads of good for the
education of Kemp and Barros. And perhaps it will humiliate Derrick McKey into
action.  

But the main thing is, if they make the playoffs, maybe I'll get to see them on
TV.  Only games I've seen this year are losses to the Rockets, Celtics, and
Warriors.

If they do make it, looks like it will be as the 8th seed, which means they'll
probably ydraw the LAkers.  Can't wait for the nationally televised game vs the
LAkers on April 14 ... 

Brian

    Brian,
    
    Just wanted to make sure that the performance of the Sonics of late
    hadn't made you given up on this note!  
    
    If you're interested in seeing the Sonics, let me know.  I can tape
    a couple of games if you'd like.  I don't know if it would be worth
    it since they're on the road when they're on TV and the result is 
    usually excruciating to witness.
    
    I think their favorable home-weighted remaining schedule makes it
    likely that they'll make the playoffs.  But, then again, they have
    to play Portland, Utah, Phoenix and the Lakers (on the 17th, not the
    14th) at home, so it's not a lock yet.
    
    Tonight, they play Golden State at home in the battle for 8th and the
    right to get embarrassed on national TV in the playoffs.  Brian, I can
    tell you're not a big McKey fan, but there is hope.  Kemp's an animal
    and I can see Derrick riding the pine next year.  There's nothing Kemp
    can't do that McKey can, and Kemp is a better rebounder, plus he looks
    like he wants to be out there, unlike "the Living Dead" McKey.
    
    Pete

    Brian,
    
    Big game tonight vs. Golden State.  I agree with Pete, McKey should
    be riding the pine next year.  Kemp has progressed nicely.
    
    JD

    The Sonics whipped GS Friday night, but took a giant step backwards
    in the playoff race by losing to the Clippers by 1 point last night.
    
    They had 3 shots at the hoop in the final seconds, but couldn't put one
    in.  I also heard they blew a 14 point lead in the 4th quarter, and
    that Ellis had 39 points.  I didn't listen to the game, though.  Can
    anyone fill in any details?
    
    Pete
    

    Oh, yeah, I almost forgot.  I am filled with contrition for bashing
    Derrick McKey's recent performance.  It seems he's been playing with
    cracked ribs since the Cleveland game March 6.  He's missed the past
    couple of games due to the ribs.  Maybe that's why he's been so 
    pathetic recently.
    
    But, he's still a momma's boy.
    
    Pete
    

I never missed a game due to ribs.

In fact, one softball season, the year we went 11-1 to finish first,
and then won the playoffs, I ate ribs before every game we won.

Believe me boys, they work!

Chainsaw

SEATTLE (103) AT LA CLIPPERS (104)

SEATTLE
                                               REBOUNDS
PLAYER           POS  MIN  FGM-FGA  FTM-FTA  OFF-DEF-TOT  AST  PF  ST  TO  PTS
======           ===  ===  =======  =======  ===========  ===  ==  ==  ==  ===

THREATT           F    34    3-11     2-2      0   0   0    7   2   1   1    8
MCDANIEL          F    38    9-18     4-5      2   4   6    5   2   2   2   22
CAGE              C    38    6-13     4-6     12   9  21    0   4   1   3   16
MCMILLAN          G    33    1-4      0-0      1   2   3    8   4   2   4    2
ELLIS             G    34   17-25     4-4      0   1   1    0   2   1   2   39
BARROS                 22    5-7      0-0      0   2   2    6   3   0   1   10
KEMP                   10    1-3      0-0      1   0   1    0   2   0   1    2
POLYNICE               19    0-1      0-0      2   6   8    0   3   1   0    0
S JOHNSON              10    2-3      0-0      1   2   3    0   3   0   1    4
FARMER                  2    0-1      0-0      0   0   0    0   0   0   0    0

TOTALS                240   44-86    14-17    19  26  45   26  25   8  15  103
                            (.512)   (.824)  TEAM REBS: 4

LA CLIPPERS
                                               REBOUNDS
PLAYER           POS  MIN  FGM-FGA  FTM-FTA  OFF-DEF-TOT  AST  PF  ST  TO  PTS
======           ===  ===  =======  =======  ===========  ===  ==  ==  ==  ===

SMITH             F    40    6-12     9-9      0   4   4    2   3   1   0   21
NORMAN            F    38    9-13     1-4      0   3   3    4   3   1   2   20
BENJAMIN          C    22    3-5      9-10     2   2   4    3   4   2   2   15
T GARRICK         G    39    5-6      0-0      0   1   1    8   2   0   3   10
MARTIN            G    38    5-12     3-3      2   2   4    3   0   0   2   14
MANNING                34   10-15     2-6      1   4   5    4   3   0   3   22
W GARLAND              22    1-5      0-0      0   2   2    7   4   0   2    2
WOLF                    4    0-1      0-0      0   1   1    0   0   0   0    0
BANNISTER               3    0-0      0-0      0   0   0    0   1   0   0    0

TOTALS                240   39-69    24-32     5  19  24   31  20   4  14  104
                            (.565)   (.750)  TEAM REBS: 10

   SEATTLE            21   31   36   15  -  103
   LA CLIPPERS        27   23   25   29  -  104

BLOCKED SHOTS: SEA - POLYNICE 2, MCDANIEL, MCMILLAN. LAC - SMITH 4,
BENJAMIN 3, WOLF. 
3-PT. FIELD GOALS: SEA 1-3 (.333), MCMILLAN 0-1,
ELLIS 1-2. LAC 2-3 (.667), NORMAN 1-1, MARTIN 1-2.
TECHNICALS: LAC - BENJAMIN, NORMAN. SEA - MCDANIEL, ELLIS.
OFFICIALS: ALEXANDER, DURHAM, HOLLINS.
A - 11,815. 

If you ever had any doubts that rebounding is 99% desire, check out Cage's
stats versus his former teammates:

CAGE              C    38    6-13     4-6     12   9  21    0   4   1   3   16
					      ^^^^^^^^^^^

21 boards in 38 minutes?  Does this guy turn on his rebounding at will?
Unlike shooting, hitting th boards seems to be all perspiration and little
inspiration.

And talk about shooting machines--was Ellis unconscious or what? 17-25 from the
field!

But losing a lead like that stinks, despite these great individual
performances. Houston is hot right now, probably will edge out the Sonics to
the 8th position.

Brian

    Well, the SuperEunichs did something last night I thought I'd never
    live to see.  They came back from a 12 point deficit with 3:43 left
    in regulation and beat Portland 136-134 in OT.
    
    I'll have to admit, I didn't hear the end of the game.  I was so 
    disgusted at yet another Eunichs' fold job in the 4th quarter that I
    gave up hope and turned off the radio.  From the report in the paper,
    they actually outscored Portland 18-3 in the last few minutes to take
    a 3 point lead late in the game.
    
    Jim Farmer and Dana Barros were the big guns in the rally.  Big games:
    Polynice 7-9 from the field, Ellis 30 points (5-11 threes), Kemp 8
    boards in 13 minutes, Farmer 26 points.  Bad games: Threatt 2 points
    (0-4 from the field), McDaniel 4-14 shooting.
    
    They are now one game up on Houston for the final playoff spot in the 
    West.
    
    Pete

    well SOnics won again lasted night, whipping the Mailman and company
    by 10 - 101-91.  Dana had a good night off the bench, as did Sedale
    Threat.  Malone, Stockton and Griffin did the lion's share of the
    scoring for the Jazz.
    
    SOnics are now tied wif Denver for 7th place in West - and coincedently
    they play at Denver tonight - it is on Prime Sports Northwest for
    you cable users out thisaway, and for you satellite gurus.  6:30
    PST start.  If Sonics win, they move into 7th, Denver to 8th.
    
    JD

    The SuperEunichs continued their single-minded quest to eliminate them-
    selves from the playoffs by losing to terrible teams.  Last night they
    lost at home to the Kings, for crissakes.
    
    So, in the last two weeks they beat Utah and Portland and lost to
    Sacramento and the LA Clippers.  
    
    On the bright side, the Mariners opened their season by beating the
    Angels and Bert Blyleven 7-4.  Ken Griffey, Jr. had a three run homer
    in the 5th.
    
    Pete

SuperEunichs (tm) ... is that like OSF/1?

Sorry to hear about the Kings game.  How is such a thing possible? Aren't the
Supes basically healthy (physically that is)?  

I take it the 'nichs also lost to DEnver in Denver the other night?  Score?
Any details on that demise?  

I see a 4 or 5-game losing streak in the making, what with these games against
Utah, Phoenix, Denver, LAL, etc. coming up.  

B.

    Brian,
    
    They lost to Denver in fine fashion.  X-man got kicked out early
    for an altercation with that known bad man Todd Lichti - fair
    exchange.
    
    Anyway, they were cold, cold, cold- and everytime they got a run
    together, they turned the ball over and dug a deeper hole.
    
    Not a pretty game to watch.
    
    JD

    Brian,
    
    The SuperEunichs (tm) did indeed lose to Denver the other night.  It
    was an incredibly lackluster performance.  They were blown away in the
    second half and lost by 15 or 20, I think.  I tried to blot it from my
    memory soon after it happened.
    
    According to the paper, the Eunichs played no interior defense and let
    Tisdale and Antoine Carr put in uncontested layups all night.  Carr was
    8-11 and Tisdale 7-10.  Sacramento shot 54.8%.
    
    For the Soops, Ellis was 12-24 (6-10 threes).  It also looks like the
    Sonics had a tough night at the line (19-30 or 63%).  Chief bricklayers
    were X-boy (4-10) and Polynice (2-4, but above his average %).
    
    Pete
     

    Can somebody explain Bickerstaff's player rotation to me?  How
    can Kemp only get 7 minutes and Barros 4 last night?  Doesn't
    he have to give both of these rookies a lot more time if he
    expects to do anything?
    
    NAZZ

    NAZZ, 
    
    See my previous reply 89.98.  There is a Nobel prize awaiting anyone 
    who can discern a pattern or consistent theory behind Bernie's
    substitution decisions.  Along with cold fusion, Easter Island, and
    why anyone thinks Bob Hope is funny, this is one of the great mysteries 
    of our time.
    
    Seriously, Bernie substitutes based on his instincts at the time.  He
    has the all-no-shooters lineup (Polynice, McMillan, Cage all in at
    once), the all-short-guy lineup, the all-cold-shooters-in-at-once
    lineup, you name it.  Sometimes they work, sometimes not.  I think his
    strange system worked a few years back when they made the Western Conf
    finals, so he's been using it ever since.
    
    Anyone else want to try and answer this?
    
    Pete

    Pete,
    
    I'm roolward.  YOu describ e Bernie's rotational attitudes perfectly!
    
    I sit there slack jawed at times wondering what the hey he is doing.
    The Cage, Polynice, Johnson, X-man and Dailey five-some was my
    favorite. 2 bricklayers, 2 guys who play one on one, and another
    guy who runs like he's got an anchor in his pants.  A few moments
    later, Bernie will put in Farmer, Barros, Threat and leave in Olden
    and bring in McKey.  He distributes minutes like a politician
    distributes promises.
    
    JD

    Geez, this note is dying like the Sonics.  The Supes beat Phoenix
    Saturday night, and they are now tied with Houston for the final 
    playoff spot.  
    
    The remaining schedule is:
    
      Apr. 17  LA Lakers     home
      Apr. 19  Sacramento    road
      Apr. 20  LA Clippers   home
      Apr. 22  Golden State  road
    
    They should win the last 3 if they play the kind of defense they played
    against Phoenix.  If they do, they should make the playoffs even if
    they lose to the Lakers tomorrow night.
    
    Pete  
    

Saw some brief footage of the game v. the Suns on tv news: McKey performing
somekind of balletic windmill dunk. Otherwise haven't seen a boxscore. What
happened to the Suns offense?

Will these Sonics be able to do something outrageous like the '87 playoff team
that finished the season around .500 and then went on to do damage in the
playoffs?  

What does Houston's remaining schedule look like?

B.

    Brian, I have this morning's PI, but it doesn't have the remaining
    schedules.  I'll post it as soon as I see one.
    
    As for the Phoenix game, the Sonics double-teamed both Chambers and
    KJ.  Threatt was an animal on defense, as was McKey, who was guarding
    Chambers.  They just played (in the second half) the kind of game that
    they are capable of with a little effort.  Remember the first half of
    the 4th game against the Lakers in last year's playoffs?  The Sonics
    built a 28 point lead before blowing it in the second half.  They 
    played that way against Phoenix.  
    
    If the 'Eunichs miss the playoffs by one game, the loss at home to
    Sacramento will haunt them in the off-season.
    
    Pete

    I watched most of that game.  Hard to believe the Suns led at halftime!
    Sonics took it to them in the 3rd, and Phoenix was stone cold from the
    outside.  I tuned out when Seattle had a 15 point lead.  What happened
    after that?  The final score looks a lot closer.
    
    Of all the teams I've seen, Seattle does the best of
    containing/doubling KJ.
    
    Mike

    .148:
    
    I doubt that they'll be allowed to do much damage in the playoffs this
    year, considering the fact that if they make it, they will have to play
    the Lakers.
    
    I'm sure LA would rather play Seattle than the Rockets.
    
    Sameer

    re: .150
    
    The outcome was never in doubt, and the scrubs got some PT to make the
    final close (7 or 9 points, I think).
    
    re: .152
    
    Have the Rockets had better success against the Lakers than the Sonics?
    I know for those who don't follow Seattle closely, this might be hard
    to believe, but the Sonics can turn it on and play better than almost
    any team in the league when they are motivated.  Unfortunately, they
    don't seem to be motivated too often.  I think the Sonics would lose
    a series to the Lakers in 4, but they'd play them closer than the 
    Rockets would.  
    
    Pete

    re .153:
    
    Well, Houston has been responsible for the 2 losses that the Lakers
    have had in the playoffs prior to the NBA finals in the Magic Johnson
    era.  As far as I can remember in the last 10 years, Seattle has never
    really posed a threat to LA.
    
    Sameer

    I'm leaving in 10 minutes to go watch the Soops-Lakers at the 
    Coliseum.  This is a big game.  If the Eunichs can pull this one
    off, they should be in the playoffs.  If they lose, Houston will
    have to lose 2 of their remaining 4 and Seattle will have to win
    all 3 of their games, which they should given the quality of their
    opponents.
    
    Re: .154  You're probably right about Houston giving the Lakers a
    better series.  We Seattle fans have to cling to our fantasies.
    Heck, you try living in a city where the name of every team must
    by law be preceded by the word "lowly".  Actually, the Sonics aren't
    lowly, just a major disappointment this year.  
    
    What really irks me is that this team was supposedly built for speed
    and the fast break.  I have never seen a team this side of Boston as
    inept at the break as the Sonics.  They are only a good point guard
    away from being a contender, though.  This year's draft is critical.
    
    Pete

    AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHH!
    
    The Soops lose on a Magic running semi-hook from 17 ft. with .8 seconds
    left.  They had the ball with a 1 point lead with 30 seconds left.
    McKey missed an open 18 footer that would have likely put it away for
    Seattle.
    
    Polynice was a big help.  He missed two layins, two free throws in the
    4th quarter, and had a rebound bounce off his head into Cooper's (?)
    hands for a dunk at the end of the 4th.  Thanks, Olden.
    
    Houston won.  Things are looking bleak for Seattle.  Oh, what the hell.
    I'm not so sure a better draft pick isn't preferable to getting
    thrashed in the first round of the playoffs.
    
    Pete

Pete, call it depression after watching the "Magic" hook last night, but 
I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking about Bernie
Bickerstaff. 

Ever notice that the Sonics do best by disrupting the other team, bringing the
other team down to their level?  (Perhaps this is why they suck so bad on the
road.)

Ever seen the Sonics out-execute another team on offense? I rarely see good
decisions made on the floor ala Magic's or Bird's ability to beat the
double-team.

Polynice was a bricklayer, but X was worse. Passed the ball maybe once for each
twenty times he touched it. McKey was totally schooled by Worthy in one-on-one
situtations, both offensively and defensively.

This group of players needs to be torn down and rebuilt by another coach. As it
is, they seem destined for mediocrity.  

Did you catch the interview with John Williams of Cleveland during halftime? He
was talking about how they'll fight it down to the wire to make the playoffs.
Said something like, "As long as Lenny is coaching us, we'll go on fighting to
the end" or something to that effect.

When was the last time you heard X or Ellis or McKey or any of the Sonics'
"stars" praise the work of their coach?  

   � When was the last time you heard X or Ellis or McKey or any of the
   � Sonics' "stars" praise the work of their coach?  
    
    Probably back when they had the very same Lenny Wilkins as coach.
    
    Bob Hunt

    Brian,
    
    Yes, it is painful to watch, isn't it?  Their half-court offense is
    a disorganized mess and the fast-break is a joke.  The problem is the
    only player with any leadership capability is McDaniel, and as you
    mentioned, he's not exactly an exemplar of unselfish play.  
    
    The only thing that will help this team is some penetration from the
    point.  They live and die by the jumper, and Ellis, Barros and X are
    way too inconsistent for this strategy to work.  
    
    You also have to wonder why Bernie can't motivate McKey to produce. 
    The guy has talent, but he's unselfish to a fault.  They also have
    an exasperating tendency to get beaten by crappy team.  I'll bet
    they're the only team in the league to have a losing record to the
    Clippers and Kings.  At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if
    they want to do anything next year, they absolutely must draft a 
    quality point guard.  Whoever they have to give up to move up to get
    him will be worth it.  They can live without Ellis, X or McKey.  Each
    one has someone ready to step in and do an adequate job.  Barros for
    Ellis, and Kemp for either X or McKey.  Package any one of them with their
    #1 pick and get one of the top picks.  Getting McMillan on the bench 
    will have the added advantage of moving him where he belongs.  He's
    a great rebounding guard and has shown he can score when he's in there
    with the reserves.  I think this would help the team gel much like the
    addition of Buck Williams did for Portland.
    
    Pete
      

RE. Bob in -2: 
I think the acquisition of Dale Ellis was in the post-Wilkens era, and I'm not
sure Wilkens was all that popular toward the end of his tenure with the
Sonics. But I still appreciate the irony!

RE. Pete:
*Draft* a point guard? And then wait another two years for him to learn about
the NBA game?  No, I think we're talking trade here.

I still think Rod Strickland was a lost opportunity for both the Sonics AND the
Knicks.  Hell, both teams would have benfited from a Strickland-for-McDaniel
swap.  

Bickerstaff and Whitsitt are probably vying for Mugsy Bogues ...

    I think Lenny's problems in the latter years of his tenure were the
    result of poor personnel decisions, not coaching ability.  His teams
    were deadly dull (Vranes, Sikma, Al Wood, etal.)  
    
    Brian, I'd love to see the Soops trade for a good point guard, but who
    in the world would let a good one go?  I also advocated a deal for
    Strickland.  But Whitsitt is still basking in the glory of past deals
    and wouldn't know what a good trade was if it bit his butt.  Sellers
    for a first-draft pick?  What a personnel genius!
    
    In my estimation, it's not worth trading to get a point guard unless
    it's an elite one.  I'm talking about Magic, Stockton, KJ, Thomas(?),
    Porter quality.  I don't think the second-tier types (Jackson, Adams,
    Floyd) will make the Sonics into a contendor.  And nobody in their
    right mind would trade an elite point guard.  You can win in the NBA
    without a center, but not without a point guard.  Their only realistic
    chance is to trade up and take Chris Jackson.  Maybe Gary Payton will
    be around when the Sonics pick, but I doubt it.  
    
    
    Pete

    New life for the SuperEunichs (tm).  They beat the feared Kings in
    OT last night.  That win, coupled with Houston's loss to Denver, puts
    the Eunichs in good shape.  They only have to win their last two
    against weak teams (Clippers, Golden State) and hope Houston loses
    one of their last two (Dallas and Utah).  
    
    But, once again you have to wonder about the motivation of this team.
    Sacramento was playing for nothing, the Sonics were playing to avoid
    elimination from the playoffs, and the Sonics could barely squeak by.
    
    Pete

Houston lost to Denver at home??!! Thanks, Nuggets!

True, it will be very pitiful if the Sonics can't get into the playoffs now. If
they can't beat the Clippers at home and the Warriors on the road WHEN IT
COUNTS, they are hurtin cowboys.  On the other hand, beating Dallas and Utah is
a tall order for Houston.  They may find a way, in which case you'd have to say
they deserve to be in the playoffs ahead of the Eunichs.

Different year, same story: Sonics and Rockets duking it out.

Sonics' year of misery comes to an end with a 2-pt loss to Golden State on
Sunday. Dale Ellis apparently played like a man possessed, as he had Friday
night vs the clippers when he hit nine 3-pointers. Anybody got any details on
the weekend games?

The loss puts the Sonics at 41-41 for the season, tied with the Rockets, who
make the last playoff spot by virtue of having a better conference record (or
did they win the season series?).

Hard to find any bright spots in all this, except the Sonics avoid
humiliation/mutilation by the Lakers in the playoffs.

    Brian, I have all the detail to turn your stomach.  The Sonics lead
    almost the entire game.  They were up by 10 in the third quarter.
    At the end of the game, X missed 3 of 6 free throws, Nate travelled
    and the team let Hardaway drive to the hoop unimpeded with 7 seconds
    to go for a layin.
    
    To tie the game, Dailey hit an unbelievable 3-pointer from the corner
    with a guy all over him.  All they had to do was play D for 7 seconds
    and send it to OT.  But, as you can tell from the score, playing
    defense wasn't a priority yesterday.
    
    Some interesting items in the paper recently.  The Sonics announced 
    that Bernie's performance would be reviewed before asking him back for
    the final year on his contract.  The next day, the Sonics said this
    was merely a formality, and Bernie told the team he would be back for
    another year.
    
    Second, Bernie was quoted as saying that the Soops point guard problem
    could be solved easily.  He plans on turning Barros into the starting
    point guard for next year.  He's going to the LA Summer League to get
    some experience.  
    
    I don't think missing the playoffs is a big deal.  I agree with Brian.
    They would have been humiliated against the Lakers.  Maybe they can
    get lucky, defying the odds and getting the first pick in the draft, 
    a la the Seahawks when they got the rights to draft the Boze.  
    
    Pete

    C'mon guys,
    
    Let's have a post-mortem for the 'Eunichs.  I read an intersting view-
    point in the Seattle P.I. that contends the 'Eunichs were doomed to
    failure this year because the had a starting lineup consisting of 5
    forwards.  I never thought of it that way, but the writer had a point.
    He says that besides the obvious, that McKey, McDaniel and Cage were
    forward, that Ellis and McMillan are, too.  Ellis can't dribble and
    McMillan is much more effective off the bench as a forward, rebounding
    and playing D on other forwards, than he is a starting point guard.
    
    Furthermore, McKey was playing out of position as a power forward.
    In the off-season, I would look first for the Soops to try and peddle
    Ellis.  If there are no takers, look for X-man to go.  This would allow
    McKey to play his natural position, and perhaps allow them to move up
    in the draft to take their desperately needed point guard.
    
    Pete

Here's my armchair appraisal of the Sonics' starting five:

Nate McMillan sees the floor and gets the ball to the shooters like no other
players on the team--and for that reason alone, he's got to be your point
guard, given the present roster.  Unfortunately, Nate's lack of a jumpshot
weapon will keep him from being a dominating guard and will cause to Sonics to
play 4-on-5 whenever they bring the ball up the floor. I don't know if you can
suddenly develop a shot--although I guess players like Magic have improved
their shooting ability with work.

Dale Ellis is one of the top pure shooters in the league and can play in the
low post pretty well too.  But he's mediocre defnesively and as others have
observed can't handle the ball. With those limitations, he'd be best as a 6th
man, kind of like Eddie Johnson of the Suns. But will Ellis' ego ever allow
that? And can the Sonics afford to take a reliable offensive player out of the
starting line-up, given their lack of scorers? No on both counts probably.

Xavier McDaniel used to be an inspired forward who played best close to the
basket. Now, perhaps with his health in mind, he seems to rely on an outside
game, esp. the patented turnaround jumper. He doesn't pass well at all and
doesn't seem to understand team offense. So if that jumper isn't falling, he's
going to force it up anyway. X would flourish I believe if sharing the floor
with a dominating big man. He would be a great play for a Patrick Ewing to dump
the ball off to when he's double-teamed. 

Derrick McKey is the kind of player who will be playing on an expansion team in
five years, surprising everyone with his talents. But in the meantime, he seems
content just to float along in the NBA, showing the occasional flash of
brilliance amidst many minutes of blending into the woodwork. He's still young,
but he seems to need a shake-up, either a new coach or a new team, to get him
out of his complacence.

Michael Cage doesn't have the athletic ability to handle the elite power
forwards in the league, nor the offensive skills to terrorize them in any way,
but he could be as good as the Oakleys, Mahorns, etc. if he had their guts. I'd
like to see him assume the role of the Sonics' bad boy or enforcer. He needs to
develop a mean streak to keep the interior defense of the Sonics tight. 

Summary:

Yes, this is a starting five with major flaws. No true center, no one who can
put the ball on the floor and create mayhem, no one with a multi-dimensional
offensive ability.  To make things worse, these players don't seem to
complement each other well.  

    Brian,
    
    Astute observations, as usual.  It's kind of grim reading all of the
    weaknesses laid out like that.  But, the addition of one player, a
    good point guard, and moving Polynice to starting center, could solve
    almost all of the problems.  Cage could be moved to power forward 
    where he belongs.  Ellis could be moved to small forward.  Like you
    said, the guy's a good post-up player, and a good rebounder.  Start
    Barros at shooting guard and bring McKey off the bench.  Trade X-man
    to move up in the draft, and I think the team would be greatly 
    improved.  A good point guard could cover up many weaknesses.  I keep
    thinking of Phoenix and what they can do because of KJ.  Take him away
    and the Suns would be sub-mediocre. 
    
    I think the time has come to realize this team is a few years away.
    McKey looks like he'll never catch fire, so the future is Barros, Kemp,
    Olden and some yet-to-be-drafted players.
    
    As a side note, isn't it depressing to see Pippen play?  The Supes
    could have had him instead of McKey.  They have similar skills, but
    Pippen's aggressiveness makes him much more effective than McKey.
    
    
    Pete

>    thinking of Phoenix and what they can do because of KJ.  Take him away
>    and the Suns would be sub-mediocre. 
    
    that's a line if I've ever heard one!  Phoenix would be competitive and
    average without KJ.  No way would they be below average.
    
    Mike

Here's the deal Fat Lever for Xavier McDaniel straight up. 

    
    Pete, I'm pretty sure Pippen was selected before McKey and was not
    available to the SuperSonics in the draft.  I know the Cavs were
    interested in Pippen but he was selected with the 5th pick? and 
    Kenny Smith with the 6th pick so Cleveland selected Kevin Johnson.
    The Sonics picked either right before or right after the Cavs that
    year.

RE .172

Actually, the Sonics drafted Pippen (at the time I said "Who?!!") and then
arranged a deal with Chicago on draft day (don't remember the details) in order
to get Polynice.  I think McKey was the 9th pick. In any case, the Sonics
basically picked Pippen for Chicago, and Chicago promised not to take Polynice. 
We know who made out better in that deal!!

Brian

RE.. Mike a few back

>Phoenix would be competitive and
>    average without KJ.  No way would they be below average.
 
Pete's point stands. KJ takes the Suns from being in the Sonics' league and
puts them amongst the elite. That's all we Sonics fans are looking for!

BTW, can't downplay the gift from the Sonics, free agent Tom Chambers. Putting
KJ and TC together is probably as tough a tandem as Stockton/Malone.

    Okay, Mike,
        
    I say they'd be sub-mediocre, say 40-42.  You say they'd be average,
    say 41-41.  I guess my remark was so off-base as to deserve your
    rebuttal.
    
    My point was that a great point guard (KJ in the 3rd quarter last
    night) can erase nearly all "weaknesses" a team might have.  I think
    you could go down the Suns' lineup and point to many deficiencies,
    and the absence of KJ and his brilliant playmaking and penetrating
    drives would cause Suns' fans to go through all the lamenting about
    their team that Sonics' fans are going through.
    
    And besides, Mike, I'm still seething about Chambers.  So there! 8^).
    
    Pete
    

    Here's the way the deal worked:
    
    On June 22, 1987, the Chicago Bulls obtained the draft rights to 
    Scottie Pippen (5th pick in the draft) from seattle for the draft
    rights to Olden Polynice (8th pick in the draft), a 1988 or 1989
    #2 draft choice, and the option for Seattle to exchange 1st round
    draft choices with Chicago in 1989.
    
    Seattle moved up one spot in the 1989 draft to take Shawn Kemp with
    the 17th pick on the first round; Chicago took B.J. Armstrong with
    the 18th pick on the first round.  Jury is definitely still out on
    who made the better selection there.
    
    The second round option was used in 1988, but the pick somehow ended
    up in Miami, and they chose Sylvester Grey with the 38th pick overall.
    
    NAZZ

From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: K.C. Jones will replace Bickerstaff as Sonics coach
Date: 15 May 90 07:03:38 GMT
 
 
	SEATTLE (UPI) -- K.C. Jones has agreed to a three-year, $900,000
contract to become head coach of the Seattle SuperSonics, replacing
Bernie Bickerstaff, who will become vice president of basketball
operations.
	Sonics President Bob Whitsitt said the appointments will be
announced Tuesday or Wednesday, ending a week of speculation.
	``We're not missing a beat with K.C. replacing Bernie,'' Whitsitt
said Monday, calling Jones ``a winner, No. 1 on my list of coaches.''
	Jones, 59, took the Seattle offer when Bickerstaff, who suffered a
burning ulcer that caused him to miss six games in the 1988-1989 season,
told Jones he preferred to move into the front office after five years
as the Sonics head coach.
	Jones rejected an invitation to interview for the Atlanta Hawks
coaching job last Friday.
	Bickerstaff's injury-damaged team finished 41-41 last season and
missed the playoffs for the first time in four years.
	He compiled a 202-208 regular season record in five seasons.
	Whitsitt emphasized that the 47-year-old Bickerstaff ``is not being
kicked upstairs'' and would bring unique insights to the newly created
job title after 17 years as a National Basketball Association coach.
	Bickerstaff invited Jones to join him as an assistant coach and
consultant last year.
	Jones resigned a vice presidency with the Celtics to rejoin his
friend.
	Bickerstaff was Jones' assistant for three seasons with the Capital
and Washington Bullets who lost to Golden State in the NBA Finals in
1975.
	When Jones was fired one year later, he advised Bickerstaff to stay
in Washington.
	Bickerstaff served two more head coaches before Seattle gave him
his first head coaching opportunity after 12 years as an assistant.
	Jones, devastated by the dismisal, later rejoined the Celtics,
where he had won eight championship rings as a player. He led the
franchise to two NBA titles and four league finals in his five years
(1983-1988).
	With the Bullets and Celtics, Jones compiled the second-best
winning percentage in NBA history (463-193, .706).
	``I won't deny this change, but I want the chance to sit down with
Bernie,'' said Whitsitt, ``then hold a press conference on Tuesday or
Wednesday at the latest.''

    Some items from today's Seattle Post-Intelligencer regarding the
    coaching move:
    
    - Bernie apparently was moved upstairs of his own volition.  It appears
      he was still bothered by the ulcers that sidelined him for several
      games in 1989.
    
    - Writer Art Thiel brought up a good point: that Bernie's biggest fault
      may have been intolerance for any player with a mind of his own.  He
      got rid of notorious malcontents Gerald Henderson, Sam Vincent, Jerry
      Reynolds, and most damaging, Tom Chambers.  He also has a soft spot
      for players with "a past, looking for a break".  This would include
      Polynice and Kemp, I assume.  This problem in judging talent and not
      being objective in assessing ability might not be the kind of quality
      you want in a player personnel director. 
    
    - Speculation is that KC will bring a more uptempo style to the
      moribund  SnoozerSonics.  Dana Barros is expected to lead the running
      game from the point.
    
    My personal feeling is that the move to KC won't hurt and could help
    alot.  Bernie, whatever his faults, can't be worse than Bob Whitsitt
    in player personnel moves.  Maybe they'll quit throwing away free
    agents and high draft picks.  
    
    Pete
    
     

From: [email protected] (LUKE HILL)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: K.C. Jones named Sonics coach
Date: 16 May 90 00:21:10 GMT
 
 
	SEATTLE (UPI) -- K.C. Jones, who led the Boston Celtics to the NBA
finals for four straight years in the mid-1980s, Tuesday was named coach
of the Seattle SuperSonics.
	Jones, an assistant coach at Seattle this season, replaces his
longtime friend Bernie Bickerstaff, who will now direct player
development.
	Jones reportedly agreed to a three-year, $900,000 contract,
bringing him back to the earning level he had in his last year with the
Celtics.
	``This has been a part of my life since age 10, when I picked up a
soccer ball and started shooting it at the basket,'' said Jones, 57.
``When I moved out of it to be the player developer at Boston, I missed
it.''
	Mentioning such players as Magic Johnson, Charles Barkley and
Michael Jordan, Jones continued: ``I love this game because of the
people who play it. When you see these people you feel good. Why?
Because it is a love. Follow your bliss.''
	Jones said he turned down the chance to interview for the coaching
job at Atlanta. He said he was swayed by his relationship with
Bickerstaff and his loyalty to the Sonics, who gave him the opportunity
to return to coaching a year ago.
	``I was rumored to be going to Jerusalem,'' Jones cracked, ``and
Detroit and Atlanta. I didn't mind those rumors being out there. But I
thought if this works out here, that's what I'd like.''
	With the Celtics and Bullets, Jones compiled the second-best
winning percentage in NBA history (463-193, .706). Only Pat Riley of the
Lakers has a better winning percentage.
	Bickerstaff said he was pleased at fulfilling his desire to coach
for five years.
	``I know there will be a lot of talk about me being kicked
upstairs,'' he said. ``I can only say I wish you all had the opportunity
to be kicked upstairs this way.''
	Sonics President Bob Whitsitt said Bickerstaff could have moved
into the front office last year, but without Jones in the organization
the transition would have been more difficult.
	``I ultimately want to help this organization win a championship,''
said Bickerstaff.
	Bickerstaff's injury-damaged team finished 41-41 this past season
and missed the playoffs for the first time in four years. He compiled a
202-208 regular-season record in five seasons.
	After winning back-to-back NCAA championships with teammate Bill
Russell at the University of San Francisco in 1955 and 1956, Jones
earned eight championship rings in nine seasons as a player with the
Celtics from 1956 through 1965-66. He was inducted into the basketball
Hall of Fame last year.
	Jones began coaching at Brandeis in 1968, then moved to the Los
Angeles Lakers in 1971 as assistant coach.
	He went to the ABA the following season as coach of the San Diego
Conquistadors. He then coached the Bullets in the 1973-74 season,
leading them to a 155-91 record in three seasons.
	In 1978, Jones became Boston's assistant coach under Tom Sanders.
He assumed the top spot in the 1983-84 season, winning the NBA title
that season and again in 1985-86.
	Following the 1987-88 campaign in which the Celtics won their
fourth straight Eastern Conference title, Jones resigned to become vice
president of basketball operations. He left the following year to become
assistant coach in Seattle.
	Bickerstaff was Jones' assistant for three seasons with the
Bullets, who lost to Golden State in the NBA finals in 1975. Bickerstaff
served two more head coaches before Seattle gave him his first head
coaching opportunity after 12 years as an assistant.

From what I've read in here this year, it sounds like the Sonics 
are not exactly thrilled with Dale Ellis.  Is he being shopped,
or does it look like he's still a big part of their future plans?

What are the chances that Seattle would be willing to do a Dale
Ellis for Byron Scott plus a draft pick deal?  A year ago, the
thought would have been laughable, but it sure sounds like Ellis'
stock has really gone down.  

Laker_Ken

    Ken
    
    It's no big secret  that the Sonics need help.  They have no center.
    
    Dale hasn't been a model citizen.  
    
    However, the coaching change may change plans.  I know KC wants
    to use Dana Barros to run the uptempo game, and having a deadly
    outside shooter like Dale would help.   I fully expect
    one of Ellis, McKey or Cage to go, though I feel Cage will stay,
    for some inane reason.  I think X-man is untouchable.
    
    Since I go to the games, I'd rather not have to watch Byron 
    Scott.
    
    JD

    Laker_Ken and JD,
    
    I don't think Ellis is going anywhere.  His value has sunk way below
    where it should be.  McKey won't go because he is such a talent, and
    would be great in a running game.  I have to disagree with X being
    untouchable.  I don't think he's the open court player that Kemp
    or McKey is, and even though he's doing some major brown-nosing to
    KC in the papers, I'd have to say he's the most likely to go.  He's
    playing McKey's small forward position also.  Make Kemp the power
    forward, McKey the small forward, Polynice the center, and Barros
    and Ellis at guard.  Turn 'em loose and see what happens.  They might
    still suck, but at least they wouldn't be the plodding half-court
    inepts they have been.
    
    I expect to see X packaged with a draft pick to trade up for a true
    point guard.  Barros might be the short-term answer, but I think he
    should be the heir to the shooting position when Ellis does his
    inevitable crash-and-burn.
    
    Pete
    

    Pete,
    
    After reading the Times yesterday, I'd have to agree that X-man
    could be packaged - and I found it interested that Dale's name was
    hardly mentioned.  Knowing KC - he'll want to keep Ellis for the
    fire power.  Also, it seemed like Cage is destined to go, and if
    they don't get a big man - look for Olden Polynice to get the chance
    to start!  
    
    JD

	The Sonics got lucky yesterday and ended up with the second pick
overall in the NBA draft.

	I'm interested in hearing from the resident Sonics fans, what will
Seattle do with their high pick?

	Do they take Gary Payton to solve their point guard situation? Or
are they going to bank on Barros & McMillan being able to handle the point
and go after a big man? They need a center but I don't think there are
any in the draft worth the second overall pick. Or will they package the pick
with a player as trad bait???


	Any word in the Seattle papers on what their plans are?? (JD???)


JimH

    Jim
    
    I was surprised the Sonics lucked out.  Haven't seen the  paper
    yet, but the radio this morning kept mentioning Payton.  They need
    a big man, that's for sure.  I don't think they'll package the pick
    unless they get a bonafide big man who cain play the game.  
    
    But the big men are a crap shoot.  Shinzus (sp?) intrigues me, he
    has ALL the tools, but....I'd hate to see 'em take the chance. 
    Especially with KC at the helm - he isn't exactly Mr. Motivation.
    Felton Spencer?  he isn't #2 material.  Naw, they'll pick a guard
    and then maybe package Ellis and Cage for a high pick or a big man.
    That's my guess....
    
    JD

    Anyone remember the last time KC had a #2 pick?
    
    Mike

 
 
	SEATTLE (UPI) -- New Seattle SuperSonics coach K.C. Jones was home
alone Sunday calmly watching the NBA draft drawing on television,
expecting the Sonics to get the No. 10 choice in June 27 college draft.
	``I was sitting there waiting for the drawing at halftime, knowing
we'd pick 10th,'' said Jones. ``I was nice and calm, waiting for them to
say Seattle had the 10th pick, but it was Golden State. And the guy said
Seattle would be somewhere in the top three.''
	In the weighted drawing, each club was assigned between 1 and 11
chances at the top pick. New Jersey, with the worst record, was given 11
balls for the cylinder. Atlanta had a 1-in-66 chance of earning the top
pick.
	Team logos were placed in envelopes corresponding to their position
in the draft and opened one-by-one by NBA Commissioner David Stern
during halftime of the Chicago-Detroit playoff game.
	Seattle was the only team to benefit from the new weighted system,
jumping eight positions in the order.
	The lucky Sonics, who shared the best record (41-41) with Atlanta
of the 11 non-playoff teams in the lottery drawing, had only two chances
in 55 to become the No. 2 team. The Sonics also won a pre-lottery
drawing with Atlanta, which ended up with the 11th pick.
	``It just blew my imagination to be that lucky to have the second
pick,'' said Jones. ``Watching it happen at home, my heart started
pumping a little and I got real excited. It's very nice to have so many
options.''
	The fortunate drawing climaxed a week that saw Jones, who won two
NBA titles as coach of the Boston Celtics in the 1980s, elevated from
assistant to head coach when Bernie Bickerstaff decided to quit after
five years on the bench to become the team's vice president of
operations.
	Jones said he, Bickerstaff and team president Bob Whitsitt had a
90-minute meeting after he was made head coach, ``but we did not discuss
who we might draft. We just talked about needs and what direction we
might take,'' said Jones.
	It's no secret the Sonics need a point guard, which immediately
brought up the name of Oregon State's Gary Payton, who is considered the
best guard in the draft.
	``Yes, we want a point guard who can be a dominant player,'' Jones
said. ``I want a point guard who is good at running the break and is
given the respect of being a coach on the floor. You can't dismiss
Payton, or Rumeal Robinson, but I'm not in the position to discuss
players at this point.''
	Nate McMillan has been Seattle's starting point guard for the last
four years, but Jones indicated rookie Dana Barros might be the team's
starting point guard next year if the team doesn't draft one.
	``Dana has the potential and the ability to be a good point
guard,'' said Jones. ``If we don't come up with a legitimate point
guard, we will settle for working hard with him to get him ready to be
our point guard. He's a good shooter, he has speed and he can dish.''
	He also said the Sonics would be open to trading down or trading
for a veteran player.
	``A ton of pressure comes with this because everyone out there's
got an opinion about what you should do,'' Jones said. ``But I prefer
being in this position, having all those options.''

    Things are changing already in Seattle with ex-Celtic Jones at the
    helm.:)

This #2 pick is great news to Sonics fans!  Gives the Sonics many more ways to
fill their needs, which are (in order):

	point guard
	center
	offensive creator, any position

Although I enjoy watching players develop,  I don't think putting a rookie at
the point is going to help the team. This team needs a leader almost as bad as
it needs a playmaker.  

I think a trade is in order, involving any or all of the following items:

	Xman
	Cage
	#2 draft pick.

I think the Sonics have to acquire an elite, veteran point guard to go with the
young horses (Kemp, McKey, Ellis).  A second-echelon (but proven) center would
also be nice. (I thought Steve Johnson would fill this need; what's his story?)

I don't think the city of Seattle can sustain too many more .500 seasons from
the Sonics, which look right now like the only pro club in town that can
contend.

Brian

    I was travelling last week when I read in the USA Today about the
    Soops good fortune.  Then, a sense of impending doom enveloped me.
    I thought back on the last few deals the Eunichs made when they looked
    like they were all set to improve the team.  Two #1's for Cage. One
    for Sellers.  Drafting Polynice with the #7 pick in the first round.
    
    Whitsitt again is talking about making another draft day deal.  All
    of his previous ones have turned into disaster.  C'mon, Bob, just use
    the f*&%ing pick and draft a point guard.  It doesn't have to be
    another complicated deal.
    
    The local sentiment seems to be about 75% to draft Gary Payton from
    Oregon State.  I agree.  The guy has leadership skills and is an
    excellent point guard.  The only other one to consider: Rumeal 
    Robinson.  I know the prevailing wisdom in the NBA is to only draft
    big men with the first few picks, but this would be a major error.
    Other than Derrick Coleman, I don't think anyone is worth the draft
    pick.
    
    There are rumors that they are considering drafting Schnitzius (Sp?),
    that stiff center from Florida somewhere.  Please say it ain't so,
    Bob.  I think KC will be able to get by with Steve Johnson and Polynice
    at center.  Bernie never gave Johnson any PT for some reason.  And,
    Olden could become an adequate center with some confidence from the
    coach.  
    
    My plan: draft Payton.  Trade X for a draft pick next year.  Start
    Payton, Ellis, McKey, Kemp and Polynice.  They won't contend next year,
    but will the following year.  Off the bench you'd have McMillan, Barros
    and Cage.  X would be fine as a sixth man, but that experiment failed
    two years ago.  Getting rid of him would allow McKey to flourish at
    small forward.  I'm not so sure his problems aren't caused by having
    to be matched up with the Buck Williams and Karl Malones of the NBA.
    
    
    Pete

    
    The Sonics should draft Coleman (if they can) and put him at
    the point.  He'd love it!  :-) :-)
    
    I don't know enough about the Sonics to make a real recommendation,
    but I think Coleman is going to become a MONSTER pro.  No more
    packed-in zones and triple-teaming.  You could package X (along
    with others?) to get an experienced point guard.
    
    But I suppose that still leaves the center problem...
    
    						Roland
    

    I assume that Coleman being drafted by the Nets with the #1 pick
    is a given.  But, maybe not.  I hear they are interviewing Payton
    too.  
    
    Pete

    It's sounding more and more like the Sonics will draft Payton.  Bernie
    just spent two days at Payton's home in California.
    
    I think he's just what they need.  He's vocal, confident, and above
    all, an excellent player (2nd all-time in the NCAA in assists and 
    steals).
    
    Don't blow it, 'Eunichs!
    
    Pete
    

What a relief--the Sonics front office actually played it safe for once and
took Gary Payton with the #2 pick. But was this guy really a consensus #2
pick--or at least a definite top-5 pick? I mean, what if some other team had
been picking #2? Was this a case of a certain team having a certain need and,
as a result, a player's stock rose out of proportion?

And who'd the Sonics take with their second-rounder?

Brian

    
    TNT reported a rumor of McHale and Parish for McDaniel and Ellis
    right before the draft.  Had this happened, I expect the Celtics
    would have taken a big man in the draft.

    If I'm not mistaken, Orlando gave Seattle a second round move so that
    they would not take Dennis Scott in the first round.  But I could be
    wrong since there was SO much trading and jumping picks last night.
    
    	--dan'l

Article 987 of clari.sports.basketball:
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: McDaniel: Start me or trade me
Date: 28 Jun 90 07:08:23 GMT
Lines: 21

	SEATTLE (UPI) -- Seattle SuperSonics small forward Xavier McDaniel,
a 1988 NBA all-star, says he wants to be traded if he can't start next
season.
	McDaniel said he doesn't know where he fits in new coach K.C.
Jones' plans for next season, but he won't be satisfied with a reserve
role, The Seattle Times reported Wednesday.
	``If K.C. wants me to play sixth man next season, I won't get
mad,'' McDaniel said. ``I'll just say, `K.C., I couldn't do it. Start me
or send me on.''
	After his all-star season, McDaniel was made the team's sixth man
by then-coach Bernie Bickerstaff. His playing time dropped from 35
minutes per game to 29 and his productivity declined.
	``I've tried it,'' McDaniel said of a reserve role. ``Last time, I
was promised 35 minutes a game and I didn't get it.''
	McDaniel returned to the Sonics' starting lineup last season, but
the Sonics have been grooming Derrick McKey in the small forward's spot.
	Jones said Tuesday night he had not decided how McDaniel fits into
the Sonics'plans.
	The Sonics selected Oregon State point guard Gary Payton in the
first round of the NBA draft Wednesday with the second pick overall.

If Seattle can get rid of Xman and Ellis, and get anything in the trade,
they will be better off immediately.

Would Seattle deal Ellis to the Lakers for Scott and Thompson?

RE. -1 Would Seattle deal Ellis to the Lakers for Scott and Thompson?

I sure hope so! I'd rather have Byron Scott on my team than Ellis, and throw in
Mychal T. and you got a hell of a deal (from a Sonics fan's perspective).

B.

RE. -3 they will be better off immediately.

Sounds like you think the nucleus of this team (Ellis, McDaniel) is flawed and
should be rebuilt.

    Brian,
    
    I think Payton would have been a top-5 pick anyway, but probably not
    #2.  He was S.I.'s player of the year.  I think he's also more highly
    regarded than Chris Jackson, who went third.  If Payton develops a
    little better outside shot, he could be the 2nd or 3rd best point
    guard in the league.  I think it was a great move to take him.  They
    also had no choice.  I don't think the plan to turn Dana into a point
    guard would have been real successful.
    
    In the second round, the Supes took Abdul Shamsid-Deen, 6-11, 230 lb
    center from Providence, who averaged only 17 minutes a game in his
    senior year.  He averaged 8.0 points and 7.0 rebounds.  
    
    They used their own 2nd round pick to take Jud Buechler, then shipped
    him to NJ for not taking Payton or Scott.  
    
    Laker_Ken,  I get the feeling that Dale isn't on the block anymore.
    Whitsitt said last night that they are happy with his attitude and
    recent behavior.  I would fully expect to see X-man moved to make
    room for McKey in the starting lineup.  They need a power forward
    very badly.  Maybe they can get Hot Rod Williams from Cleveland since
    he doesn't seem to want to play there.  How 'bout trading X for
    Schintzius?  San Antonio already has a pretty decent center.
    
    I'd start Payton, Ellis, McKey, Cage and Steve Johnson.  Not a real
    fearsome staring 5, but the next 5 would be almost as good.  Off 
    the bench, you'd have Polynice, Kemp, Barros, Threatt and McMillan.  
    That'd be about as good a second 5 as you could find.  Better still
    if you could get someone good for X.
    
    
    Pete (a happy Sonics fan for the first time in years)

    the X-man also saidthat if he was  traded, he'd put up Tom Chambers'
    type numbers.   The X-man has had two minor knee surgeries in the
    last two years - supposedly a lot of teams view him as 'damaged
    goods'.  
    
    Seattle's other picks were #38, Jud Buechler, a 6' 7" forward from
    Arizona and with the 53rd pick, they got 6'11" center Abdul
    Shamsid-deen from Providence.
    
    I'd think Deen has a chance of sticking, since the Sonic's centers
    are Cage, who's really a forward, Steve Johnson who's a ?,, and
    Olden Polynice who's another?
    
    I expect at least one of the troika of Ellis, X-man, or Cage to
    be gone by opening day..
    
    JD

    Did I get this right?  Seattle, picking second, traded a second round
    pick to the Nets, picking first, so that the Nets don't take Scott,
    which they don't, and then Seattle doesn't either?
    
    Dan

    Dan, I think it Payton that they really didn't want NJ to take.  Scott
    was added on the list because of another deal.  The Sonics got two future 
    second rounders from Orlando for not taking Scott, so that was the
    reason for the weird-sounding deal with NJ.
    
    Pete

    Uh, that should have been "I think it WAS Payton".
    
    I just heard the first of 5 1/2 million references to the Coliseum
    as "Payton's Place" on the radio.  
    
    Pete

re Ellis and the Xman.

I think these are exactly the types of players that you never win with.
They'll put up the number - sometimes - but their game is to profile.

TTom

    According to SOnics' sources, the Sonics NEVER had any talks or
    interests in trading for Kevin McHale.   However, KC Jones is hinting
    that he'd like RObert Parrish, of whom he says has 3 or 4 more years
    left.  The Sonics want to run,run,run with Payton leading the charge,
    but the also could use a center.  They do not have ANY interest
    in free agent Moses Malone.   The X-Man seems to be the oft-dangled
    trade bait right now.
    
    They envision putting Cage back at power forward, McKey at small
    forward, Payton and Ellis at the guards, with Barros the #3 guard
    and Nate McMillan the swing man/defensive expert.   Olden Polynice
    could be the starting center if a deal isn't made....
    
    Of course, if the Celts trade Parrish, and don't get a good draft
    pick or a center in return, they face the spectre of starting nexted
    season with Joe Kleine in the center spot, helping to form what
    would have to be the slowest, most ploddingest front line since
    the 1950's [Kleine, Bird and McHale] - Dee Brown will be doing wind
    sprints around these guys.....
    
    JD

    JD, was this the same source that denied that there were any trade
    talks with GS for Alton Lister last year, right before the trade? 
    Whitsitt is a pathological liar and I don't believe a word the weasel 
    says.
    
    I think the Soops could be a decent team with their present lineup.  I
    haven't thrown in the towel on Olden yet.  He could be adequate with
    some PT and continuity.  Of course, that would mean he couldn't foul
    out in 5 minutes, as only he can.
    
    Pete  

    Trading Parish would be a BIG mistake.  The X Man is bad news.
    
    Mike

    Sure sounds like Bernie will bolt to Denver to become their GM for
    $600,000/year.  An announcement is expected today.
    
    Why anyone would pay Bernie that kind of money is beyond my
    comprehension. 
    
    Pete

    According to today's Seattle Times, Bernie has bolted to teh Nuggets
    to be there GM.  A news conference was scheduled for sometime this
    afternoon.
    
    Who will be the new Sonics GM???
    
    JD

I guess this is a turning point for the Sonics, an end of an era. Bernie
Bickerstaff may have had his flaws as a coach, but he was certainly welcome in
Seattle at the start of his tenure, when he energized the team and was part of
some good personnel-building. Having him totally out of the organization now
will really change the atmosphere. I wish I had confidence that K.C. Jones was
the guy to head this team back on the right track.

Bernie's no John Thompson, but he's probably a good acquisition for the
Nuggets as GM.  Like some other Sonic lost personnel, he'll probably come back
to haunt the Sonics ... ;-)

So when does the house-cleaning of players begin? 

Read that Tom Newell has been named assistant coach in New Jersey. Who is K.C.
Jones using as his assistant? 

Otherwise, is all quiet out in Sonics land?

Brian

    Brian,
    
    I know that Gary Wortman is an assistant.
    
    Only news: you've probably heard that Hot Rod Williams declined the
    proposed trade of X-man and Nate for him.   He has the right to decline
    trades.
    
    Also, Gary Payton is in town today to try to work out a contract.  He
    reportedly wants $13 million over 5 years, which would seem to be not
    too far off-base give what Chris Jackson got.  I would anticipate that
    the contract can be worked out this week.
    
    Pete

    Last night it was reported that Payton agreed to a contract and will
    be in uniform tonight for the annual intra-squad game.
    
    Pete

Thanks for the update, Pete. I heard  ESPN or somesuch last night that Paytonon 
signed for $2 million per year?! Hope this kid is ready to contribute this
season. Won't it be nice to have a real "creator" out there on the floor at
point?

Brian

    Yeah, Brian, he signed for $12 mill over 6 years.  That means he should
    be demanding a re-negotiation in about 3 years.  He also supposedly 
    signed a multi-million dollar endorsement deal with Nike, which made
    his signing with the Supes easier.  Actually, he got a worse deal than
    the 3rd overall pick, Chris Jackson, if you believe the numbers being
    reported.
    
    Early reports from camp are encouraging.  Kemp has apparently refined
    his skills and should be a force this year.  Polynice was 10 for 10 
    from the field in the intrasquad game.  Payton had 10 assists in that
    game.
    
    How's this for a starting lineup: Polynice, Cage, McKey, Payton, Ellis.
    Bring Kemp off the bench early.  Trade X-man for whatever he will
    bring.  He'll only take PT away from Kemp.  I just don't see a role
    for him.  
    
    This team will be spectacular at times this year, but I don't think
    they'll have the experience to challenge for one of the top records
    in the West.  Maybe next year.  
    
    Pete
    

    Is KC using Steve Johnson at all?
    
    Mike

    
    
    
    	Seattle released Johnson sometime during the summer...
    
    

    Now playing the part of aging center with bad knees:
    
    Dave Corzine!  No kidding.  He's in camp battling for the
    backup center position.  I'm not so sure he's going to be
    a big improvement over Johnson, but who knows?
    
    Pete

    The Supes are 3-3 in pre-season play including 2 victories over
    Chicago, which had won 17 straight pre-season games.
    
    Reserve midget guard Avery Johnson was traded to Denver for a 2nd
    round pick.  I'm glad to see this happen.  If they hadn't traded him,
    he would have been waived.  I just can't see them keeping more than
    5 guards: Ellis, Barros, Payton, McMillan, and Threatt.  Is Jim Farmer
    still around?  They also have Dailey, who probably won't make it.
    There just wasn't room for Avery, who is a good playmaker. 
    Unfortunately, he had no shot at all.  It was an ugly shot-put-like 
    shot that rarely went in.
    
    Payton had 20 points and 6 assists last night.  Reports have him living
    up to his lofty place in the draft.  Kemp and Polynice are also playing
    well.  
    
    I'd really like to see KC start Polynice, McKey, Kemp, Ellis and
    Payton.  It's the lineup of the future and they might as well start
    now.  If X continues his habit of whining about coming off the bench,
    unload him.  
    
    Can't wait for the season to start!  It should be interesting.
    
    Pete
    

Avery Johnson will probably fit in well to the Nuggest run and gun offense. He
likes to push the ball up the floor, but gets punished in a halfcourt game on
defense.

The Sonics look well-equipped at foward and especially at gd. If Payton and
Barros mature in Ellis' lifetime, that's going to be one of the best guard
trios in the game. 

Olden really is the key here. If he can manage to stay on the floor for 25-30
minutes w/o fouling out, he'll start to get into the flow of the game and can
really contribute. 

I'm with you, Pete: I believe in trial by fire. Give Kemp and Payton regular
minutes from the start. Someone's going to have to give up P.T. to do this; I
say let it be McKey (not X). The Sonics need fire, not ice. 

Brian

    Brian,  you're just not a Derrick fan, are you?  I agree, McKey sleep-
    walks through most games, but X's all-too-frequent 4-16 shooting nights
    bug me more than McKey's lack of hustle.  I guess they split time and
    whoever's doing the job gets it.
    
    I heard a distressing bit of news on the radio this morning.  KIRO
    reported that Bob "The Cretin" Whitsitt had declined an offer from
    Sacramento of their first round pick in 1991 for Nate McMillan!  Bob,
    reconsider!!!!  Nate will be a good swingman off the bench, but 
    Sac's first pick ought to be pretty high.  If they can't get somebody
    better than Nate with it, I'd be plenty surprised.  I guess Bob's 
    waiting for another Brad Sellers deal to come along to show what a
    f#$%^@g genius he is.  What a boner.
    
    Pete

>    Brian,  you're just not a Derrick fan, are you?  

Not true. I think the guy could be an *awesome* small forward, given his great
leaping ability, quickness, and size. But I've only once or twice seen him come
close to taking over a game--you know, totally carrying the team on both ends
of the floor. I've seen X do that many times, though not as much last year,
once Dale became *the* man. 

Now that time is taking its toll on X's knees, etc., I hope he'll compensate by
becoming more wiley. He never struck me as a player who used his head a lot;
he's all heart. Derrick, on the other hand, seems wise beyond his years. He
needs to get an ego transplant from X and then he'll be all set.

Brian

P.S. I agree: trading Nate for a #1--*anyone* #1--is a good deal for the Supes.

    Since nobody answered my question a few back, I'll answer it myself.
    
    Jim Farmer apparently was signed as a free agent by Denver when the
    Supes failed to give him what he wanted.  He was cut today by the
    Nuggets.  Too bad.  I always thought he was a very good, hardnosed
    player when he was with the Sonics last year.  I'd like to see the
    Sonics pick him up again and cut loose Dailey or someone else.
    
    Ellis will probably miss the first week of the season with an injured
    foot.  I have a feeling they won't miss him much.  
    
    The Soops finished exhibition season at 5-3.  I'd guess that Kemp
    was the leading scorer.  He's going to be a force this year.
    
    First few games:
    
      Sat  Nov. 3  Houston
      Tue  Nov. 6  Detroit
      Fri  Nov. 9  at Denver
    
    Pete

Sonics beat Houston in the opener, with 6 players scoring in double figures!
(Ellis was a DNP.)

McDaniel gets 8 assists?!!
Polynice shoots 7-8 from the floor?!!
Akeem held to <20 pts?!!

    Brian,
    
    X-man's assists jumped off the box score at you, too, huh?  That has
    to be close to his assist total for the entire season last year.
    
    Didja see Kemp's totals?  He played about 17 minutes and had 10
    rebounds and around 14 points.  
    
    It looks like KC's approach may work wonders for this team.  I'll
    be going to catch tonight's game on the tube at Sneakers.  
    
    Pete

    How'd Dana do?
    
    NAZZ

>    How'd Dana do?
 
Nazz, Dana shot 2-8 from the floor, 1-1 from the line, for 5 points. No treys
attempted. Don't know how many minutes he played, etc. (the boxscore in my
local paper sucks).

The entire Seattle backcourt, with the exception of Threatt (7-12), didn't
shoot real hot. Payton went 4-11, Dailey 2-6. Only one three-point attempt by
the team: Payton, 0-1.

RE. Pete: yes, Kemp did some quick work. Looks like opposing teams are going to
have to shoot the ball very well to beat this team, considering their
rebounding. Sonics outboarded Houston (inc. Akeem and Otis Thorpe) 53-41. 
Must have been a lot of put-backs and garbage hoops off offensive rebounds.

Seattle 49-90 20-25 118
Houston 37-79 29-35 106

    Thanks for the info!
    
    NAZZ

    Where's his mom?

Highlights of Sonics 100-92 victory over Detroit, 11/6

Rebounds:

	Sonics 53 (Sean Kemp, 13)
	Pistons 43

3-pointers:

	Seattle, 0-0
(I guess they're waiting for Ellis to return, but I thought this was Barros'
shot.)

BTW, Dana shot 2-2 from the floor and 3-3 from the line ...

A few of us Northwest noters got together last night to watch the Sonics
play the Ewings (ummm...knicks).

Sonics lost in O.T after blowing a 10 point lead in the 3rd and then coming
back to tie it up. They had a chance to win it in regular time but McKey threw
up an airball with no time left after Peyton had gotten stuffed driving to the
hoop and had the ball knocked out of bounds.

Pete Crouch and JD said it was a typical Sonics home game...get lead,blow lead
come back but eventually blow game.

My observations were that the Sonics have a decent team but are missing a
few key ingredients...Jd mentioned their lack of any sort of a post up game,
I think that they need a pure outside shooter to open up the lanes to the hoop
for Peyton,kemp,X-man and Threat...Pete says that when Ellis comes back he'll
provide the outside punch.

Threat had a great game, He was unconscious for a while in the 2nd quarter, 
hitting everything that he threw up. Kemp played well but had a few stupid 
fouls, Olden was Olden..hands of stone but decent when he actually hung onto 
the ball...X was good but missed quite a few layups that eventually cost them
the game...

For the Knicks..Ewing was the team but Gerald Wilkins kicked in a few treys and
other assorted long range jumpers to keep the D honest. If the knicks just
lobbed the ball into Ewing every time down the floor he'd average 40-50 PPG.
He's got some great moves to the hoop and some good ones going away also. Cage
actually played some pretty good D on him at the end of the game though....

On the lighter side of things....Both my cohorts informed me that the Sonics
gals are vastly improved over last year. Although they are now wearing sweat 
pants to cover up some heavy thick leg action :-) (paula abdul these gals are 
not). The Seattle Center scoreboard tells you exactly when to cheer and make
noise in case you'd never been to a b-ball game before (it even has little car
races at halftime)..and we got stuck in front of an avid native New Yorker 
we was foaming at the mouth for the knicks...his command of the english 
language centered around the phrase that it now Jd's personal name....

"Hey, Jackson..school dat rookie"

Can't wait to see the Celtics in a few months....


Metz

    >    <<< Note 89.235 by DECWET::METZGER "It is happening again..." >>>
    >                   -< btw- very good seats for $10 >-
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                           ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
    
    Is that all they paid you to go????????????I would have held out for at
    least $20!!!
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

Jake, come back to Charlotte and we'll gladly charge you $50 a seat for
the Hornets game. That would probably include transportation and entrance
in the Paper Doll.

TTom

    cheapest Suns' ticket is $15, most are $20+.
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    The cheapest seats at Sonics games are $5.00 - and they aren't bad!
     In fact, I saw one of the Sonics-Suns games last year in the cheap
    seats.  No obstructed view!
    
    Metz,
    
    Good summary of the game.  The scoreboard at the Colesium is a waste
    of foreign labor.  As Pete so astutely pointed out - they don't
    even post scores from other games.  (And they can't put Olden's
    zero on the board!)
    
    jd

>       <<< Note 89.237 by HBAHBA::HAAS "Big Smile at the Drivethrough" >>>
>                          -< could me more, and more >-
>
>Jake, come back to Charlotte and we'll gladly charge you $50 a seat for
>the Hornets game. That would probably include transportation and entrance
>in the Paper Doll.
>
>TTom

    TTom,
    Guarantee me the same table at the Paper Doll and it's cheap at twice
    the price!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    hell, we could even skip the game and proceed directly to the Paper
    Doll!!
    
    JaKe
    
    

I paid $5 for a ticket at the Kingdome during one of their games there.  I
might as well have been on the other side of the roof for all I could see.

    Looks like Ellis will be back in the lineup for Saturday night's game
    against Chicago.
    
    Metz, that was some game against NY, wasn't it.  The let-downs at the
    end of the 2nd and 3rd quarters doomed them, along with Olden's bricks
    from the free-throw line.  In both the 2nd and 3rd quarters, they had
    only 1 team foul with about 4 minutes to go, and ended up in a penalty
    situation.  X-man missed a layin at the end of the half, too.
    
    On the bright side, Gary Payton showed some real take-charge tendencies
    during crunch time.  Some of his moves were ill-advised, but his
    aggressiveness was great to see.  He had a very good game and looks
    like he'll be a great point guard with a bit more experience.
    
    Pete

ah yes..I'd almost forgotten about Olden's free throwing malaise...He was 0-4
I believe with only 1 having a shot at going through the hoop.

Jeff..The Sonics play in the new Seattle center now. I doubt I'd go to see
a hoop game in the Kingdome...I don't think I'm going to like seeing baseball
there either...

Keep it under the stars and on natural turf I say....

Maybe a monster truck volvo squashing competition though :-)

Metz

    Yep, Olden should go to what ever free throwing camp Eddie Lee WIlkins
    went to.  Ol' Eddie SWISHED his first two attempts.  Of course,
    he did air-ball his third....
    
    JD

Well, here in the upper RIGHThand corner of the country (upstate NY), I had to
tune in the Sonics/Knicks game on AM radio. (Too cheap to subscribe to MSG, the
cable TV station that carries lots of Knicks home games.)

I think it was Walt Frazier doing the commentary/color on the radio broadcast
... he was freaking out in overtime when Jerod Mustaf (sp?) was yanking down
all those boards (bricks) that the Sonics were throwing up.

Thing about Frazier that's irritating (maybe it's his trademark), he *loves* to
rhyme: "Ewing is hustlin' and musclin' ... Payton is shakin' and bakin' ..."
Give me Kevin Calabro anyday ... (NW insider's reference ...).

Really though, sorry to hear the Sonics snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. 
But even 3,000 miles away, I could tell this is a different team this year.
They'll probably flirt with .500, but the *style* of their game seems more
suited to the greyhounds McKey, McDaniel, and Peyton (don't know about Ellis
though; will he get his shot off with 88 screens?).

Brian

    After a promising 3-0 start, the Sonics are in a tailspin.  They have
    lost 4 in a row, 3 at home.  
    
    Last night, they hit the bottom.  A 78-65 loss to the Clippers.  They
    shot about 32%, and their leading scorer had 11 (Kemp).  It set a
    league record for fewest points in a game by two teams, and was only a
    couple of points above the record for fewest points by one team.
    
    Pete
    

Pete,

Okay, so it was the back-end of a back-to-back game, but how did the Sonics
score so few points? 65?!!!

What happened in the Chicago game? 

My lunchtime pickup hoops team could probably score 65 points in 48 minutes
against the Clippers (we'd give up 165 though ... ;-)

Brian

>>Jeff..The Sonics play in the new Seattle center now.

Yeah, I was there about 2 years ago.  As far as I know, they're still obligated
to play a couple of games at the Kingdome every year.  I was there during one
of those games.

j.

    
    I think the Kingdome days are over.  They play a couple a year in
    the Tacoma Dome now.  And, Metz, the Seattle Center isn't new.  It
    was built in the early '60s.  In a couple of years, the new arena
    near the Kingdome should be ready.  Question is, will the Sonics?
    
    Brian, I only listened to the last quarter, mostly in disbelief when
    I heard the announcer say the score was xx-55 with about 4 minutes
    to go.  IN THE GAME!!!  I think the shooting of the starters did them
    in.  X was about 3-12.  They were about 50% from the line.  What a
    joke.  At least the players had the good sense to say they were
    embarrased by their performance.  I sure hope this gives them a bit
    of a kick in the butts.  They were capable of soundly defeating the
    world champs a couple of weeks ago.  The turnaround was positively
    Seahawk-like.
    
    Pete
    

    I had the misfortune of attending last night's game with San Antonio.
    Supes lost by about 13 (I left with a couple of minutes to go) after
    they couldn't hit a shot in the 4th quarter.
    
    They played a pretty good game for 3 quarters, then Robinson came alive
    and hammered them.  Elliot had a very good game, too.  He has the
    sweetest shot I've seen since Ellis used to be good.
    
    Dale was on the bench in street clothes even though he's still serving
    a 5 game suspension for duking it out with X outside the Sonics head-
    quarters.  
    
    The optimism I had after the 3-0 start to the season is gone.  The 
    Sonics have no interior game and no fast break, even though they have
    very good team speed.  They'll be very lucky to not end up out of the
    playoffs.  
    
    Pete

    Why didn't Dana play?  Is he hurt?
    
    NAZZ

    Nazz,
    
    Dana fell on his haid twice in the prior game against Utah and went
    to the hospital with a mild concussion.  He's okay, but they wanted
    him to sit out one game.  He sat on the bench next to Ellis, perhaps
    to fetch Dale a few beers and point out that the Subaru race on the
    scoreboard at haftime was not intended as a documentary on how to
    drive on your way home from the Coliseum.
    
    Dana's big spill against Utah was pretty ugly.  He went inside against
    all the big guys and got knocked over hard.  He landed almost right
    smack on the top of his head.  As Bob Urich would say, he looked like
    he had an adult-size "bangaroo" headache.
    
    Pete

    What's the word with McMillian.  Is he back to full strength and
    time now, or will he continue in the 5 minute range?
    
    The Wizard

And how were those $25 dollar seats Pete ?

Can't wait for the Celtics game...


Metz

    Re: .253
    
    McMillan is at full strength and played probably 20 or so minutes last
    night.  He's basically the backup point guard with Ellis out.  When
    Ellis returns, he'll be a forward.
    
    Metz, the seats were okay, but not worth $25.  They were about 3/5 of
    the way up, about parallel with the baseline.  Perfect vantage point
    to see all the bricks heading toward the hoop.  They weren't 2 1/2
    times as good as the seats you, I and JD had for the Knicks.  But,
    I'm stuck with 3 more games at $50 each (me and my wife) since our
    partners in the tickets are the trendy conspicous consumption-type
    Bellevue shallow yuppie swine.  Actually, I don't blame them.  Karen
    works for Microsoft and is coming into a pile of dough when her stock
    options vest in January.  
    
    Pete

    New rumor is that the Sonics are about to trade Ellis and McKey to
    Atlanta for John Battle and Kevin Willis.
    
    Pete

    Oooooohhhhh!!!!!!  That's a great rumor!!!!!!!!  I've been sitting
    here in front of the ol' terminal now for two or three minutes,
    tryin' to figger out who makes out in that deal, but I'm still
    scratchin' my haid on it.  I jest don't know.
    
    NAZZ

    Just what Atlanta needs!  Another head case!
    
    Mike

    I was just listening to the radio and the Sonics spokesman said there
    was absolutely no truth to the rumor about the Atlanta trade.  Of
    course, they were denying the Alton Lister trade up until the last
    minute last year, too, so it could still happen.
    
    Pete

>    New rumor is that the Sonics are about to trade Ellis and McKey to
>    Atlanta for John Battle and Kevin Willis.
 
This kind of "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" trade always puzzles me. 

The Sonics should be trading for a dominant center, period. If they don't
address that need, everything else is just commotion. Kemp will have every
skill Willis has and more by the end of this season.

Trade Ellis and McKey for at least a second-tier center (couldn't get a
franchise player like Akeem, Ewing, or Robinson for any amount of $$): that
makes some sense. 

Brian

    All quiet on the trade front.  Seems Atlanta has a salary cap problem
    that precludes them from taking on both Ellis' and McKey's salaries.
    New rumor is an Ellis-for-Willis trade.
    
    I don't know if anyone else saw the Seattle-Portland game on TV Sat.
    night.  I recorded it and watched it on Sunday morning.  What a game!
    A combo of great clutch play by the Blazers, choking by the Sonics and
    two absolutely blown calls by the refs combined for a 3 OT thriller win
    by Portland.
    
    The Supes played very well and led by 14 going into the 4th.  Portland
    came back and were leading by 1 with about 30 seconds to go.  Sedale
    hit a short jumper to give the Sonics a lead with just about 10 or so
    seconds left.  Portland got off a shot (Kersey I think).  But, TWEET!
    Phantom foul on the shot.  The replay clearly showed that Cage never
    touched him, but Kersey went to the line and hit 1 of 2.  Not only was
    the call bogus, but they called it on McKey, who wasn't even in the
    play.  That was his 6th.
    
    1st OT.  The Sonics play well with X man going wild.  They lead by 3
    with a few seconds to go.  Porter is trapped at the 3 point line.  
    A couple of Sonics are hacking at him.  The ball's loose, but Porter
    picks it up and launches a toss.  It goes in, but the game clock had
    expired.  Guess what.  The same ref that can't tell Cage from McKey
    can't tell when a shot is after the game's over, either.  
    
    2nd OT.  Sonics are up by 4 with 7 seconds to go when Payton fouls 
    Ainge.  He hits two.  Then, inexplicably, X throws the ball to Porter
    (?) on the inbounds play.  He drives the length of the floor for an
    uncontested layin.  Nice pass, X.
    
    3rd OT.  My tape ran out.  I only set the VCR for 3 hours.  But, 
    Portland pulls it out.  What a game!  Sonics played very well, only
    to be screwed out of a win. 
    
    Pete

I was absolutely stunned by the news that the Sonics traded Xavier McDaniel to
the Suns for Eddie Johnson plus some draft picks. For the Sonics, this is
STUPID STUPID STUPID!!!

Whitsitt, you %%$##&&@**, this is what you did wrong:

1. You're giving up your top scorer with the biggest heart for a guy who can
occasionally shoot the lights out in duty as a 6th man ...

2. You're giving your top scorer to another team in your division ...

3. You're acquiring a shooting guard/small forward when you need a center.

4. You're reuniting X with former Sonic Tom Chambers, making Phoenix the
beneficiary of two of the most stupid management moves in recent NBA history.

5. Draft picks are nice, but--besides drafting McDaniel in '84--you've proven
you don't know how to take a college player, develop him into a pro, and get a
productive career out of him ... (McMillan, McKey, and Polynice come to mind.)

6.. You're going to make me into a Sun's fan at this rate ... (Mr. Heiser, is
there room on the Sun's bandwagon?)

Pissed off,
Brian

    What I have heard is that Seattle thought that the X-man was a trouble
    maker, and just wanted to get rid of him.  Something was said about a
    fight last week.  Weren't they also saying that Chambers was a bad
    influence on the team when they got rid of him?
    
    Bruce

    Brian,
    
    I have to agree with you on the trade, but I'll try to explain what
    might be going through Boob Whitsitt's mind.  
    
    KC is big on ball movement and X is to ball movement as John McEnroe
    is to good manners.  KC has been trying to get his players to move the
    ball all year, but the first time X touches the ball is the last time
    anyone does.  Except for his 7 or 8 assist effort in the opener, he
    has been averaging 2 assists/game.  
    
    I also think the Stupes have realized they'll never move Ellis, and
    Dale and X never have and never will get along.  Another consideration
    is that the Sonics have been losing lots of games at the free-throw 
    line due to their total lack of an inside game.  There is no inside 
    game because of X.  All he does is shoot short jumpers.  
    
    Kemp has gotten too good too fast to leave him on the bench.  Either
    X or McKey had to sit.  I don't know why they didn't just have McKey
    come off the bench and start X and Kemp.  
    
    My biggest problem with the trade isn't that the Sonics lost X.  I
    think he was overrated anyway - little rebounding, average defense,
    ball hog extrordinaire, streak shooter who always tried shooting out
    of slumps.  It's that they should/could have gotten more for him.  I
    mean, EJ is another streak shooter, he's 4 years older than X, and
    Phoenix's draft picks are going to be low first rounders, who
    historically haven't helped teams all that much.  
    
    Another big problem is that the Sonics have no outside shooters except
    Sedale Threatt in the starting lineup.  McKey is an average shooter,
    but Cage, Payton and Kemp are all below average shooters.  Payton may
    come around, but he hasn't shown much yet.  The Sonics will live and
    die inside, and so far, NBA refs haven't shown much sympathy for the
    Sonics when they go inside.  Kemp gets hammered constantly, but rarely
    goes to the line.
    
    The new-look Supes were impressive last night in Milwaukee.  They led
    at half by 9, and would have won if they could hit anything from the
    line.  They were 1-7 at one point.  When Kemp and Polynice are taking
    a lot of your foul shots, you're in big trouble.  But, McKey seems to
    have new life.  He and Kemp were both very aggressive last night.  It
    looks like somehow X's presence was having some effect on McKey.  If
    he can come to play every night, X won't be missed very much.  Also,
    Kemp had 31 point and some absolutely incredible circus shots inside,
    most of which went in.  If anybody reading this gets a chance to see 
    Seattle on TV, watch 'em.  The team sucks, but Kemp is worth watching
    by himself.  They guy will be the next Charles Barkley.  He gets 10-12
    rebounds, and will get over 20 points a game by starting.
    
    If this move helps the Sonics, it will be by accident, though.  I think
    the next move they have to make is to fire Whitsitt.  After his 4 first
    rounders for Cage, Polynice and Brad Sellers fiascos, this trade should
    seal his fate.  It has sealed his reputation as the most incredibly
    incompetent bonehead in pro sports management.  Look for a Dale Ellis
    for Sunny Sundvold deal soon.
    
    Pete

>6.. You're going to make me into a Sun's fan at this rate ... (Mr. Heiser, is
>there room on the Sun's bandwagon?)
    
    Welcome aboard Brian! ;-)  This may be the move that puts Phoenix in
    the finals!
    
    How did EJ do in his first game? (i.e., pts, rebs, ast)  I have him on
    my FBA team and I think this move may help me ;-)
    
    Here are X's stats from his debut: 17 points and 9 boards in 33 minutes.
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    EJ didn't play much.  He hit a couple of jumpers, but I don't think
    he had more than 4 or 6 points and a rebound or two.
    
    9 rebounds for X???  Don't expect to ever see that again.  He and 
    Chambers had trouble working together in Seattle, but then again,
    they didn't have a point guard of KJ's caliber helping out.  X can
    be aggravating to watch.  Wait 'til one of his patented 2-14 games.
    But, when he's hot, he can carry the team.  I hope he does well.  I
    always liked his competitive spirit, something that seems to be
    woefully lacking in the current Sonics team.
    
    Pete

    
    re -1
    
    X has averaged ~8 rebounds a game, for his career.  I don't see where
    the lack of rebounding knock is coming from.  Chambers was consulted
    before the Suns acquired X, and was all for it.  He said that they
    played well together.  
    
    If you look at what was said about DJ, Chambers, and X after they left
    Seattle, you wonder where the problem really lies.
    
    Bruce

    X was told up front his job is to rebound and play tough defense.  They
    also expect his toughness to become contagious.
    
    Mike

    Phoenix also gave up 2 #1's with Eddie Johnson in the deal.  Rumors are
    that Seattle will take the picks, package them with Ellis and deal for
    the long-sought after center, with Kevin Willis' name still cropping
    up.
    
    Dan

    Bruce,
    
    First, I inherit your sorry excuse for an FFL team, then you dare
    question my assertions about X's rebounding!!! Unbelievable 8^).
    
    I'm not sure where you got your stats, but I'm pretty sure X was
    getting about 6 rebounds/game this year.  I'll look it up tonight.
    After seeing him in dozens and dozens of games in his career, I 
    still assert that he's too one-dimensional.  The only part of his
    game that is truly outstanding is his 10-ft. turnaround jumper.  He
    is able to create a shot, where EJ has to rely on picks or on launching
    long ones.  
    
    I heartily agree that getting rid of "undesireables" DJ and Chambers
    were horrible mistakes.  Unloading Ellis at fire-sale prices would
    be up there with those boners, too.  
    
    FWIW, Whitsitt is being savaged in the local press for the X deal.
    I don't know how the guy can live with himself.  He has personally
    dismantled the Western Conference finals team from 4 years ago.  He
    has made a succession of incredibly ill-advised moves.  The only 
    good thing he did was drafting Kemp in the late first round a couple
    of years ago.
    
    Pete
    

I can't see why Seattle made this trade unless it is a precursor to making 
another deal asap. IMHO X is a better shooter than Eddie Johnson. EJ also has
a bad habit of disappearing during crunch time and totally disappearing during
crucial games. What were his stats during Pheonix's playoff appearances?

I agree with Pete....watch the Sonics for Kemp and Kemp alone unless they trade
for a big center ASAP....


Metz

Another stupid move by Seattle.  Trading Ellis and picks for
another power forward masquerading as a center -- Willis --
would be the finishing touch to the madness we're now witness
to.

Sure wish Jerry West would get on the phone with Witless and
arrange to steal Ellis away before somebody else gets him.

Laker_Ken

    You too Ken ????
    
    Was kinda hoping to get Kemp and Ellis for Scott, AC, and a warm six
    pack.
    
    Maybe Witless will throw in a #1 pick for laughs ...

    Everyone forgot about Witless letting Sikma go.  Another boo-boo!
    
    Mike

    Here's EJ's debut:
    
    Player              Min    FG-A    FT-A   R  A  P  T
    E. Johnson           12     3-7     0-0   0  1  1  6
    
    It is clear KC wants to stockpile draft picks to rebuild this team.
    
    Mike

    Well this was a dumb move, unless the picks pan out.
    
    On the X-man -well, he'll be better in Phoenix than Seattle cuz
    he can't carry a team on his shoulders.  I had season tix last year,
    and he was one frustrating guy to watch.  Inconsistent, and prone
    to ball-hogging and missing foul shts in the 4th quarter.  I'll
    put a lot of this towards his being the only bonafide go-to guy
    on the team once Ellis was hurt.  On the Suns, he'll be another
    spoke in the wheel, and not the rim.
    
    JD

    JD,
    
    Nice to see you back in the SuperSucks note!  Better quit arguing
    wif Doc M in the Oilers note and get back here where ya belong!
    
    Something else nobody has mentioned yet is X's bad knees.  The last
    couple of years, X has missed stretches later in the season.  His
    knees don't hold out playing 32+ minutes a game for the whole season.
    I haven't heard of any problems this year, but I'm sure the condition
    of the knees was a consideration.
    
    Pete

    Re: -1
    
    I heard that too.  Maybe he just didn't want to play for you guys ;-)
    
    Mike

    Now, Mike, why wouldn't anyone want to play for a team that
    consistently underacheives and gives away its best players? :^).
    
    Re: X-man's rebounding.  I looked it up.  Here are his rebounding
    stats:
    
       Year     RPG
     -------   ----
     '85-'86   7.99
     '86-'87   8.60
     '87-'88   6.64     
     '88-'89   5.28
     '89-'90   6.48
     '90-'91   5.40
      Career   6.95   
    
    Not only is this not 8 rebounds per game, 2 of the last 3 years have
    been closer to 5.  No matter how you slice it, this is pretty pathetic
    in my book.  The downward trend in his rebounding is the result of
    his moving farther and farther away from the hoop every year.  
    
    I thought I'd look at another set of stats.  I've taken certain stats
    of X and Kemp and projected Kemp's if he played the same number of
    minutes as X.  Until the trade, X played 35.3 minutes and Kemp 22.5.
    
                        X     Kemp          
                      ----    ----
      Points          21.8    21.0
      Rebounds         5.4    11.3 
      Off. rebounds    2.4     5.3
      Assists          2.5     1.1
      FG%             .479    .484
      Blocked shots    .27    1.57
      Fouls :^)       3.33    5.76
    
    Kemp also had a few more trip to the line than X, even though he played
    57% less minutes.  I think this shows why the Sonics were willing to
    let X go.  Kemp's just too great of a talent to leave on the bench, and
    X has proven he can't play off the bench.  Why they didn't start Kemp
    and X, though, I'll never know.  
    
    To those who are saying that X was obtained by Phoenix in part for his
    defense, I chortle with derisive laughter.  Have youse guys ever seen
    him play D?  To say he'd be put on Magic is a howler.  X is no more
    than an average defensive player.  McKey is much better, which may be
    why they kept him.
    
    As for his height, he's listed at 6' 7''.
    
    Pete

    Last night's Phoenix paper said the lynch mob is out after Witless in
    Seattle for this trade.  Doesn't sound like the fans are happy!
    
    Mike

RE. Xman's rebounding (and overall game)

When X first came into the league, he was really an awesome inside player.
Offensive rebounds were his specialty. Even at 6'7", he was the power forward,
with chambers (6'10") playing "small" forward. For whatever reason (knees? sick
of banging with the Oakley's of the league?), X has moved his game outside and
as Pete says relies too heavily on his patented turnaround J.

His rebounding is very good.
His defense is average.
His passing is poor.
His effort is excellent.
His dribbling is fair.

Part of me thinks he'll do great on a team that has other weapons. But I do
recall what a hard time he had adjusting to life as the 6th man for the Sonics
in Bernie's experiment last year.  

No way is this trade in the Sonics' favor. If you;re going to unload X, you
better do it for more than they got.

Brian

    Ellis is going to be activated for tonight's game against Indiana.
    It will be interesting to see how he plays.  He must have a feeling
    that if he plays well, he'll be gone soon.
    
    Yesterday's paper said that X was traded for 3 reasons: 1. KC wanted
    him gone because of his ball-hogging tendencies, 2. Concern about his
    knees and 3. He will be an unrestricted free agent after next season,
    and they figured they might as well get something out of him now,
    rather than lose him a la Chambers when his time is up.
    
    Sounds kind of bogus to me.  Whitsitt is still the biggest cretin in
    pro sports management.
    
    Pete
    
    

    You guys might not like Whitsitt, but at least you don't have Al
    Bianchi to kick around.  Bianchi has thrwarted the Knicks at every turn
    taking forever to trade for Kiki, then pronouncing the team not good
    enough even when he got them (Translation: "It's not my fault."). 
    Further he traded away Strickland for Cheeksw hich is a definite boner.  
    
    Now there was a rumor of Dale Ellis to the Knicks.  Bianchi has
    squelched that rumor with a "we're not interested".  FWIW, I think
    Ellis is nearly a perfect fit for the Knicks who have needed an
    off0guard who can hit the J since Ewing stepped into the league. 
    Considering he's on the block, how can Bianchi not be lusting after
    him.
    
    Dan

Gerald Wilkins and Mustaf (sp) for Ellis and a #1 ...

Both teams get what they need.

I'd like to see gerald WIlkins on the Sonics. He really impressed me when the
Knicks came to town....

Metz

>Gerald Wilkins and Mustaf (sp) for Ellis and a #1 ...
    
    If I were the Knicks I'd do that in a second.  Not because it's a
    ripoff, but because the need for Ellis is acute (assuming he's healthy
    and still good), and while Wilkins is good, he's a driver/slasher and
    is inconsistent with the J.  The upgrade of Wilkins for Ellis is
    exactly what the Knick starting 5 needs.  Mustaf for #1 gives them
    another chance with a questionable pick, probably from a nice position.
    
    Not sure what it does for the Suns as they stand now.
    
    Dan

    In yserday's West Seattle Herald, they had a great article on Slick
    Watts, the ex Sonics guard.
    
    Slick teaches physical education at the High Point Elementary School
    - mostly to 5th graders.  Wattls is from Rolling Fork, Miss., from
    a poor background - he had 2 pairs of pants while growing up.  He
    likes working with kids, trying to teach them to take pride in their
    accomplishments, he sponsers parties called "Pat Parties" for kids
    who deserve a pat on the back.  
    
    Watts also owns a food brokerage - from which he donates food to
    
    homeless shelters and food banks in the area.  
    
    Watts used to run his own program for kids called "Slick Watts'
    Friends of Kids", which was partially funded by the government.
     The federal slashes in 83 cut the funds off.  That'w when he started
    to teach.
    
    Watts is currently studying for his PHD at the University of
    Washington.He has his undergrad degree from Xavier, and a masters
    from City University.
    
    It was a real nice story.
    
    JD

    Slick Watts was the original light bulb in the now chic solar panel
    movement.......
    
    HTH.
    
    Hawk

    Slick was cool.  But I don't think I want his do...

RE> Dan in .287

>    Not sure what it does for the Suns as they stand now.

Must EVERYTHING the Sonics management does benefit the Suns? ;-)

Can you imagine how effective Ewing would be if he knew he could kick it out to
a gun like Dale Ellis whenever he got double-teamed? And can you imagine how
Ellis' eyes would light up at the thought of having Ewing and Oakley setting
picks for him!

This deal is better for the Knicks, but then again I live in New York now ...

Brian

    re: Slick
    
    Sounds like Slick is doing some good things in the community.  I can't
    help but wonder about his public persona given what I've seen of him
    in person.
    
    I play a lot of tennis.  I used to play at a Jr. High school's courts
    in Bellevue.  Many times, Slick would be there playing against a woman
    who appeared to be his wife or girlfriend.  She was a very good player;
    Slick was average.  She'd be whacking shots by him all the time.  Slick
    would invariably call the close ones out, even though they were clearly
    in.  This would start a loud argument between him and his partner.  He
    was incredibly rude and nasty to her, as well as being a blatant
    cheater.  Then you see him on TV and he's Mr. Congeniality.  Will the
    real Slick please stand up?  
    
    On another subject, Supes finally won one last night against Indiana.
    Points: McKey 18, Kemp 18, EJ 14, Ellis 8.  I think this team will
    slowly come together and finish the season winning more of there final
    games than they lose.  If they get a decent big man in the draft, they
    could be very good in a couple of years.  Why does "the future" never
    arrive for this team?
    
    Pete
    

    Any other stats on McKey last night?  Is he stepping up to the podium
    with X out of the picture, or is it a temporary thing?
    
    I remember a year ago when Nazz and Doug both said they'd rather have
    McKey than James Worthy.  Pretty funny stuff, huh?
    
    Dan

X was 10-15 from the floor in the Suns' win over Sacramento last night ...

    RE: -1
    
    yeah and he only played 30 minutes while adding 8 rebounds, 1 assist,
    and 2 blocks.
    
    In fact, Suns vice president Dick Van Arsdale, no shrinking violet
    himself during his playing days, added this off-hand remark Monday
    while watching X's first full practice in Phoenix:
    
    "If I had to go to war and was in a foxhole, I'd want Dan Majerle on my
    right and Xavier McDaniel on my left."
    
    Mike

    >>"If I had to go to war and was in a foxhole, I'd want Dan Majerle on my
    >>right and Xavier McDaniel on my left."
    
    I dunno about that.  X would either hit 'em all or one out of 12.  
    All depends on how he felt that day.
    
    It's way, way to early to tell if X will be consistently this good for 
    the Suns.  Heck, Ken Griffey Sr. hit over .600 in his first week 
    for the M's.  It's all part of the effort people put out to make a
    good impression.  When you first go out with a girl, you don't scratch 
    yourself and fart loudly at first, right?  But after a few weeks, you 
    get comfortable and let loose.  In a few more games X will be doing the 
    athletic equivalent of farting in bed.  
    
    My major problem with the trade isn't the fact that the Sonics will
    miss X.  It's that they gave him away and filled a Phoenix need.  The
    trade will make the Sonics no worse, but will make Phoenix better.
    
    Let's face it.  The Sonics were going nowhere with X on the team.  
    They might have become a .500 or .550 team eventually.  But, that's
    a recipe for mediocrity for years to come.  .500 doesn't give them
    the center they need.  I'd rather see them go with the youth movement
    and hope it pans out.  **But**, if you're going to unload X, get
    somebody of value, or a lottery pick for him, fer crissakes.  
    
    Mike, enjoy X while he's playing like this.  Wait til he gets cold
    but keeps firing bricks the entire game.  He was 1-10 against the
    Celtics a couple of weeks ago.  And, that's not all that rare from
    him.
    
    Pete

    Re: -1
    
    is that what the smell was? ;-)
    
    Re: trade
    
    The biggest surprise is that it happened within the same division.
    Trades of that magnitude usually happen across conferences.
    
    Re: X
    
    Everyone said the same about Chambers too and his "gunner" mentality.
    He's worked out great in his 3 years here.
    
    Mike

    
    Can someone post the box for the Sonics game last night... thanks in
    advance.

Interesting game.  Paid tickets were 10,400 but only 1568 made it due to a
6-inch snowstorm.  KC missed the first quarter and Ellis showed in the third
(his limo was hours late - he can't drive due to his license suspension).

ORLANDO (105) AT SEATTLE (122)

ORLANDO
                                               REBOUNDS
PLAYER           POS  MIN  FGM-FGA  FTM-FTA  OFF-DEF-TOT  AST  PF  ST  TO  PTS
======           ===  ===  =======  =======  ===========  ===  ==  ==  ==  ===

CATLEDGE          F    37   12-22     6-10     5   5  10    0   6   0   2   30
SCOTT             F    21    3-11     0-0      0   0   0    0   2   1   2    7
KITE              C    16    0-2      0-0      2   2   4    1   3   0   0    0
SKILES            G    43    7-16     7-7      0   3   3    6   1   2   3   24
ANDERSON          G    45    7-17     7-8      1   1   2    3   2   3   0   21
ACRES                  26    1-1      2-4      1   5   6    2   4   1   1    4
REYNOLDS               27    7-13     3-4      1   3   4    2   5   1   2   17
TURNER                  6    1-1      0-0      0   0   0    0   2   0   1    2
WILEY                   8    0-0      0-0      0   0   0    1   0   1   1    0
ANSLEY                 11    0-0      0-0      0   0   0    0   2   1   0    0

TOTALS                240   38-83    25-33    10  19  29   15  27  10  12  105
                            (.458)   (.758)  TEAM REBS: 11

SEATTLE
                                               REBOUNDS
PLAYER           POS  MIN  FGM-FGA  FTM-FTA  OFF-DEF-TOT  AST  PF  ST  TO  PTS
======           ===  ===  =======  =======  ===========  ===  ==  ==  ==  ===

KEMP              F    37    7-14     6-13     3   8  11    2   4   0   4   20
MCKEY             F    41   12-17     9-9      2   3   5    4   3   2   5   33
CAGE              C    34    1-5      0-0      0   6   6    0   1   1   0    2
PAYTON            G    19    4-6      1-1      0   2   2    5   3   1   4    9
THREATT           G    31    8-12     6-6      0   2   2    4   3   1   1   22
MCMILLAN               29    2-4      0-0      2   6   8   14   1   4   1    5
JOHNSON                27    9-13     3-4      2   2   4    1   4   1   2   21
BARROS                 15    3-5      0-0      0   1   1    2   1   0   2    6
CORZINE                 4    0-0      0-0      0   0   0    1   0   0   0    0
ELLIS                   3    2-2      0-0      0   0   0    0   2   0   0    4

TOTALS                240   48-78    25-33     9  30  39   33  22  10  19  122
                            (.615)   (.758)  TEAM REBS: 13

   ORLANDO            25   25   31   24  -  105
   SEATTLE            32   33   30   27  -  122

BLOCKED SHOTS: ORL - KITE. SEA - KEMP 3, MCKEY 2, CAGE, MCMILLAN,
JOHNSON. 
3-PT. FIELD GOALS: ORL 4-14 (.286), SCOTT 1-5, SKILES 3-5,
ANDERSON 0-3, REYNOLDS 0-1. SEA 1-3 (.333), MCMILLAN 1-1, JOHNSON 0-1,
BARROS 0-1.
TECHNICALS: ORL - SKILES, CATLEDGE.  SEA - ILLEGAL DEFENSE 3.
OFFICIALS: NUNEZ, COSTABILE, WILLARD.
A - 1,568. 

    Soops have put together a 5 game winning streak (post-X, Mike H 8^).)
    Granted, they beat Sacramento twice, Orlando and injury-plagued Dallas
    and Cleveland, but it beats losing.
    
    They are playing much, much better than they were a few weeks ago. 
    Ellis is back and playing very well, shooting over 55%, and he was
    inserted in the starting lineup last night.  EJ is adding some fire-
    power off the bench.  He usually gets around 15 or 16 points a game,
    and has been shooting well, also.  McKey may be coming out of his
    career-long slump.  He disappeared in the 2nd half last night, but
    came through with 2 big shots at the end, including the game-winning
    15 ft jumper with 2 seconds left.  
    
    Kemp continues to be awesome.  If he'd get just a few calls under the
    basket, he'd be even better.  He has a rare ability to put up shots 
    underneath with a soft touch, rarely missing, even in heavy traffic.
    
    Even Michael Cage is finally pulling his head out.  His scoring and
    rebounding are way down this year, but the last few games have shown
    great improvement.  Payton is having a steady, if unspectacular, rookie
    year.  He makes some nice passes, but his shooting and penetration need
    work.  I don't think he'll ever be another KJ.  Maybe another DJ.
    
    Pete

    So who got the better end of the X for EJ trade?

The Suns....

People here are saying that X (or Ellis) should have been traded but to trade
X to a team in your own division for an aging role player was not the way to go
about doing it.

The Sonics are definately a streak team this year win 3, lose 10, win 5...etc..

Nice playing by Barros last night in the closing minutes of the game. Sonics
were tied with 17 seconds or so to go. Barros took the inbounds pass, drove 
1/2 the court, drove the lane and made a nice pass to Mckey who was wide,wide
open about 15 feet from the hoop along the baseline.

I wonder why he doesn't do it more often during the game ?


Metz

    I agree with Metz.  The question of who got the best of the deal won't
    be answered for a couple of years when the Supes make the draft picks.
    
    But, I think the real question is: why did the Sonics make a rival so
    much better when they could have done themselves the same amount of
    good without enriching one of the best teams in the NBA.  I'm still
    shaking my head knowing that they were offered Sacramento's #1 pick
    for Nate McMillan.  They wouldn't have missed Nate, and Sac's #1 pick
    will likely be a lottery pick.  Phoenix's will be in the late first
    round.
    
    The trade benefitted both teams, I think, but Phoenix got the best
    immediate result.
    
    Pete

    Truth is, Sacramento offered Seattle its SECOND #1 pick, which is
    Portland's.  A big difference between a lottery pick and the last
    pick in the first round!
    
    NAZZ