Conference 7.286::sports_90

    sssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..............

    Does anyone have any JUCO Hoops Recruiting info?
    
    St. John's needs some big bodies for next year, and since they've
    lost out on Anthony Cade, Jamal Mashburn and others, they'll probably
    have to go the JUCO route.
    
    Any info out there?
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    > Montross probably UM-bound
    
    Is this your opinion or have you heard rumors???
    
    Thanks,
    
    - ACC Chris
    	

	Chris,

	I was in Indiana for the tournament there, and there are serious
	rumors, supposedly from people "in the know" (friends of friends 
  	of the Montross family, etc.) that he's going to Michigan.  The
	belief is that the decision has been made, but he won't announce
	till after the season for fear of losing the race for Indiana's
	Mr. Basketball (which he's probably already lost anyway).  I 
	couldn't find ANYONE who believes he's headed for Indiana or North
	Carolina.

	Of course, this could all change tomorrow. :^)

tom

    Thanks Tom.  Can't say I'm surprised.  I predicted he'd go to Michigan
    all along.  Too bad though.  Kid could've joined an awesome group
    headed to Chapel Hill and probably set himself up for life, what with
    Dean's track record of turning raw high school talent into (wealthy)
    NBA professionals.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

MrT told me that Montross was recently held scoreless in a game...

True or untrue?  

Have you seen that 7'5" kid in Utah who's going to BYU?  He looks like
he weighs 175 pounds!  

Gotta get my boy on the stretching rack... he's only 2' 9".  {at 17 months}

    I find it hard to believe Montross was held scoreless.  Of course
    he's being double and triple teamed constantly, but I still can't see
    him getting held scoreless.  My guess is MrT caught wind of the
    Montross-to-Michigan rumor and is starting to downgrade him using
    typical T-1984 Orwellian tactics.
    
    And speaking of IU, they're getting the much ballyhooed Damon Bailey
    next year, who will arrive with more press than anybody to ever attend
    Bob Camp.  Featured in a best selling book in the 8th grade, Bailey
    is the stuff of folklore in Indiana, from what I've heard.  Will he
    live up to expectations?  I doubt it.  He'll be solid, but the word
    is that he's a tad slow.  Plus it's a well known fack (tm) that 
    Indiana never gets talented high school kids.  Only the slow grad-school 
    type.
    
    The 7-5 kid's name is Shawn Bradley and he is indeed thin.  Supposedly
    he played Montross to a standoff in summer camp, which I find kinda
    hard to believe.  He'll be a force to deal with given time, but he's
    got to go on a 2-year missionary trip after his freshman year (he's a
    mormon) which could really set him back.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

ESPN runs a weekly show, Scholastic Sports. They had Montross featured
and during it they interviewed Bradley and showed clips of a couple of
games that they played head-to-head. They spoke well of each other and
apparently neither dominated the play.

TTom

    There was an article in today's paper that had the Gophers recruiting
    class of '90 ranked #12 in the country according to a just released 
    scouting book.  There were three other Big 10 teams in the top 20
    as well:  Illinois, Iowa and Michigan State I believe.  
    
    Clem really has turned the Minnesota program around and with two
    potential blue chip players red-shirted this year, it looks like
    the Gophs will be a force for several years to come.
    
    
    Spud

	Montross was recently held without a field goal (not scoreless,
	I don't think) in a game against Indianapolis Brebeuf.  Brebeuf
	is led by 6'9" junior Alan Henderson, generally considered one
	of the top 5 juniors in he country.  Henderson's numbers are
	currently something like 32 points, 14 rebounds, and 5 blocked
	shots per game.  Montross currently is at about 21 points and
	12 boards.

	Re. Damon Bailey.  I wouldn't dare predict how good he'll be in
	college.  I don't think you can tell until you see a kid against
	college players.  However, he's a good leaper (39" vertical jump,
	although I assume that's at least a little hyped) and seemed to
	hold his own with the current VERY quick crop of IU freshmen when
	they played AAU together.  His main assets, though, are a knack
	for scoring (not just shooting), passing, and tremendous court
	awareness.

tom

Path: shlump.nac.dec.com!decwrl!shelby!csli!orourke
From: [email protected] (Michael O'Rourke)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball
Subject: Bad News (College)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 8 Jan 90 20:08:40 GMT
Sender: [email protected] (Michael O'Rourke)
Reply-To: [email protected] (Michael O'Rourke)
Distribution: na
Organization: Center for the Study of Language and Information, Stanford U.
Lines: 15
 
 
On a day when Kansas moved to the top of a regular season basketball
poll for the first time in 33 years, Jayhawk fans received some bad
news.  Chris Lindley, arguably the top recruit signed by Roy Williams
in November, had his foot cut off by a slow-moving train in Kansas
City over the weekend.  Lindley, who was averaging 24 pts, 10 rbds,
and 3 blks for the team ranked #6 by USA-Today, was reportedly
convinced by a friend (some friend) to try and jump on the train. He
slipped and fell underneath it.  He is listed in serious condition and
is in intensive care.  What a stupid thing to do.  I feel for the kid
and his family.
 
 
Rock Chalk
[email protected]

    Re .14
    
    Kansas is still going to award him the scholarship however.
    
    pete

         UMASS Coach John Calipari continues to prove to be a top notch
    recruiter, as the program has received early commitments from the
    following athletes:
    
         Jerome Johnson - 6'4" swingman from Bridgeport, Ct., now at
                          Maine Central Institute;  last year he was
                          was named Connecticut's Co-player of the year
                          and led his team to the Connecticut State
                          Championship and a top twenty U.S. Today
                          rating.
    
         Mike Williams  - 6'2" point guard from Hartford, Ct., called
                          by the Hartford Courant "the best player in
                          Connecticut this year".  A Street and Smith
                          All-American.
    
         Ted Cottrell   - 6'9" forward from Annapolis, Md.
    
         Jeff Meyer     - 7'2" center from Wausau, Wisconsin
    
         Cottrell and Meyer have both been described by Calipari as
    "projects" and may be redshirted.  Also, 6'9" forward Kennard
    Robinson, a Prop 48 ineligible this year should be available.
    
         In a short period of time, Calipari has brought in three excellent
    recruiting classes, and has brought a down and out program back
    to respectability.  This years team which is loaded with freshman
    and sophomores (and loses only one senior) stands with a 7 and 3
    won-loss record with wins over Colorado, Penn State and Rutgers.
    
    Russ                                

    I agree that Calipari has been a breath of fresh air to the UMass
    program.  I only hope that they can hold on to him, but I predict
    within three years he'll be gone to a Big 10 or Big East job.
    
    My one (minor) criticism is that he hasn't had any success recruiting
    in-state players.  In that vein, I wonder if he's after Springfield's
    Travis Best.  Any word on where Best is leaning, goose?
    
    NAZZ

    Re: 17                    
    
        While UMASS has always had its problems recruiting in state 
    basketball players, particularly those living east of Rt. 128, I 
    would argue that its no great loss, as the State produces very, 
    very few, Division 1, impact players.  While Pat Ewing and Rumeal 
    Robinson have been Collegiate superstars, and players like Dwayne 
    McClain and Butch Wade have had solid Collegiate careers, 
    Massachusetts produces far fewer quality b-ball players than states 
    such as New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and even neighboring 
    Connecticut.  Thus the time John Calipari spends south of the Mass
    Pike, is time well spent in my book.  
    
         The larger problem is that in the greater Boston area, those
    few athletes who may become impact players never consider attending
    UMASS, due to the lack of media recognition the University receives.
    It will be interesting to see how long it takes before the Globe
    or Boston television picks up on the "turnaround" in Amherst.
    
    Russ
                       
    (By the way, I've seen Travis Best play and he's going to be an
     IMPACT PLAYER, somewhere)

    What's even worse is the little media recognition the university
    gets is overwhelmingly negative.  The only things ever printed or
    aired by the various Boston media outlets are the bad ones, not
    the many good ones, for example, the racism stories from the 1986
    World Series got lots of press while the huge student and faculty
    volunteer effort to renovate the library got no press whatsoever.
    
    Football recruiting is in much the same situation as the hoops
    recruiting.  In the past few years, we've brought in as many or
    more scholarship students from New Jersey as we have from
    Massachusetts.
    
    I don't think we need to get the impact players from in-state such
    as the Rumeal Robinsons of the world.  What we do need to get are
    the solid, in-state players who were the heart and soul of the team
    in the seventies complementing the Al Skinners and Julius Ervings
    of that time.  We need to win a few of these kids away from places
    like Holy Cross, BU (if any), Northeastern (if any) and so on in
    order to establish credibility as a solid basketball school for
    the local kid to attend.  Then, we may have a shot at the rare
    Massachusetts impact player such as a Travis Best.
                                                      
    I hope John Calipari can keep up whatever it is he's doing and I
    hope he doesn't leave for a few years yet.
    
    John

    
    That's why it is a pleasure to go visit my parents in Western Mass and
    watch the local sportcast. They devote a good amount of attention to
    Umass each night. They show the positive with the negative.
    
    The Globe (and all of eastern Mass) sucks when it comes to reporting on
    Umass. You'd think that BU or BC was the state run school around here.
    
    Metz
    

    re: 20
    
         Bill Curley, 6'9" center/power forward from Duxbury, Ma., plans
    to matriculate at St. Doug University, a.k.a. Boston College.

       Someone musta called the Herald!
                                            Denny  ;^)

    But I thought I read in here that Curley was going to UMass!
    
    And everyone knows the SPORTS notes file is always 100% accurate,
    right John Hendry?
    
    NAZZ

   RE: <<< Note 76.25 by VAXWRK::NEEDLE "Money talks. Mine says "Good-Bye."" >>>
                              -< Blow me, guys. >-


      Jeff, we need a big fan.

  Chuck

    Any of you guys do *small* favors..........:^)
    
    Claybone

    
    re: Back a few/Nazz
    
    	Nazz, UMASS doesn't stand a chance of getting Travis Best. 
    The latest on Travis is as I stated a couple of weeks ago when I
    did there JV game.  He is undecided at the moment (he is only a
    junior and is in no hurry to make a decision).  I've heard that
    he wants to attend Georgetown, but many around him are advising
    him against that.  Outside of the G'town rumor, the other rumor
    is that he is leaning to an ACC school.  Of course, I put my 2 cents
    in to the JV coach and told him that Travis should go to Louisville.
    
    	As for UMASS, they are getting plenty of airtime around here.
     So far their season is quite uplifting and surprising.  The big
    test will come against West Virginia.
    	
    	As for the recruiting problems of UMASS, they have the student
    body, but they just don't have any respect or media attention. 
    No large city, basically located in a non-productive area for high
    school athletes (at least at the div. I level), plus poor coaching
    and no visibility.  Here is a school with 25K students that doesn't
    even play Div I football!!  Kinda amazing in these days.
    
    								bill
    

    Just curious, Goose, but why are people advising Travis not to go to
    G'town?
    
    Hawk

    
    re:-1
    
    	Hawk, people don't want Travis to go to georgetown because they
    think he won't get enough playing time and that he will get lost
    in the "Thompson shuffle".  
    	People around here are hungry for someone to make it big time.
    Ricky Wallace was considered the best prospect out of Western Mass
    ever.  He went to Minnesota where he ended up going through about
    4 knee operations.  He started his freshman year (sporadically)
    and out of that 5, he was the only one not to make the NBA.
    	Then came Mark Hall who was the best player in the state in
    the late 70's.  He followed Wallace to Minnesota and it appeared
    as if he was going to make the NBA after he made the all big ten
    team his junior year (maybe it was 2 team all big ten??).  But,
    he messed up and got kicked off the team in his senior year only
    to come home and end up dieing from a coke overdose.
    	So, a couple of almosts, but no cigar.  People want to see this
    kid play.  Many feel he will be one of the best guards in the country
    next year when he is a senior.  Those same people don't want to
    see his talent wasted on a team where only the center gets any ink
    and playing time.  Most want him to go to a school where he will
    start from day one and not have to sit, something similar to the
    kid at GaTech this year.  Hey, he may go to G'town, as far as I
    have heard, he is just shopping around right now.
    
    							bill..g.
    

    Goose,
    
    I agree UMass is in a tough situation with its location, lack of
    media attention, quality of local athletes and so forth.
    
    UMass I would argue is not that unusual when it comes to not being
    Division 1-A in football.  I'd venture to guess that several 1-AA
    schools not in New England are nearly as big.  Northeastern is the
    one NE school close to its size if not bigger that's not 1-A in
    football.  There was a window of opportunity to move up in the sixties
    and that window was met, but I would also argue that we're just
    fine on the 1-AA level, given the quality of HS football in New
    England.
    
    But poor coaching?  C'mon, where have you been this year?  I'll
    agree that some of the basketball coaches since Leaman stepped down
    haven't been all that great but it hasn't been until the last couple
    of years that the university has made the commitment to basketball
    needed to compete on the level it's now in.  Calipari is the best
    thing that's happened to UMass hoops in a long time and I sure hope
    we can keep him here for many years to come.  Now if you're talking
    about coaching in general, I'd pit several coaches against anyone
    in the country - men's lacrosse, women's field hockey, women's soccer,
    men's swimming and so forth.  The problems with UMass athletics
    aren't with the coaches, the problems are with the administration
    and the state government.
    
    John
    
    

    Highly prized prep C, 6'9" Brian Hopgood (Oklahoma?) has given a
    verbal commitment to Louisville.  This gives the 'Ville five (5)
    Top 100 recruits this year, all bigger than 6'6".
    
    Hopgood supposedly was down to 6 or 7 schools, including Big East
    schools UConn and Providence. 
                                               
    Redmen Phil
    

Anfernee Hardaway, rated by many as one of the top scholastic players in
the country - 6'7", Memphis Treadwell - has been declared academically
ineligible under the Memphis "no pass, no play" rule. He flunked 2 of his
classes. 

Hardaway has signed with Memhis State but hasn't qualified academically
for freshman eligibility.

TTom

	TSN has a big article this week concerning Eric Montross. 

	Highlights -

		o  Montross' visit to Chapel Hill on February 7
		   was an unofficial, pay-your-own way visit (are
		   you smiling, Chris?)

		o  Montross is apparently friends with Cliff Rozier
		   and Pat Sullivan, and has another friend who is
		   being recruited by North Carolina's golf team (is
		   the smile getting bigger?)

		o  Montross is rumored to be uncomfortable with the
		   personalities of Michigan's probable returnees (you
		   HAVE to be smiling by now)


	My money's still on Michigan, but it looks like NC is much more in
	the hunt than I had thought.

tom

    YEEEEEEHAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111
    
    Wow, this is better than I could've possibly imagined.  Montross to UNC
    - unreal.  I'm not counting my studs yet though.  Michigan still is
    gonna weigh heavy, given Eric's lineage.  But Steve Fisher???  Gotta be
    a big negative when weighed against Dean.
    
    Thanks for update Mr.Simpson. 
    
    
    - ACC Chris_who_is_indeed_wearing_a_BIG_grin_at_the_moment!!!!!
    

    
    Chris, no big deal, they'll still have the same boneheaded coach at the
    helm.....
    
    mike

    You're right Mike....
    
    #1 Recruiting Class + Dean Smith - Roy Williams = 4 years of pre-season
    #1 rankings and early NCAA Tourney exits(aka good losses)..
    
    Cap

    Good news on the recruiting front from the ACC.  First, Brian Reese,
    our studly shooter coming in next year, passed his SAT's on the second
    try.  It appears Brian is gonna be our designated shaky-student for the
    next 4 years.  Dean usually gambles on one or two p/ squad.  Not too
    many lest things get out of hand.  Makes it easy to keep your thumb on
    top of the possible flunkees.
    
    Secondly, Cornell Parker, Virginia's Prop48 casualty who decided to go
    to prep school, has successfully surpassed the magic 700 barrier. 
    Unfortunately he's not 100% sure he still wants to go to Virginia,
    given the coaching uncertainty.  If the UVa assistant gets the job
    though, he's there.  Virginia Tech is also a possibility.  Parker is an
    outstanding ballplayer.  S&S All-American.
    
    Finally Dean paid a visit to see Mr. & Mrs. Montross the other day.
    (Oh, I think son Eric was there too!  ;^)  No word on how Dean scored,
    but the fact that Eric wanted to go ahead with his home visit tells me
    Michigan ain't a lock yet.  
    
    Dean encourages his would-be recruits to make a list comparing the
    colleges they're debating.  He even provides them with a form they can
    use to fill out which gives points they can add up to determine the
    best choice.  (BTW - We lost Rex Chapman a few years ago cause the
    Kaintuckians came out ahead on points.  Dean probably forgot to put the
    "Will this school end up on NCAA probation?" question on there.  Heh
    heh!)
    
    Anyway here's how my list would look, with each possible category
    garnishing a possible 3 points:
    	
    				UNC	MICHIGAN
    				---	--------
    Academics			 3 	    3
    Coach			 3	    1
    Enviornment			 3	    3
    Intangibles			 2	    ?
    Playing Time		 2	    3
    
    Basically it's gonna come down to Fisher vs. Dean (clear edge to Dean),
    playing time (Dean *NEVER* guarantees it. Edge to Michigan cause we 
    landed a 7' McDonald's All-American last year), and intagibles, which 
    involves the pressure undoubtedly being placed on the youngster by dad 
    and grandpa to go to Michigan, verses Eric's possible desire to split 
    with family tradition and the fact that he has friends going to UNC 
    and apparently feels comfortable there.
    
    VEWY, VEWY INTEWESTING.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I understand that St. John's is recruiting Kentucky HS Standout
    6'7" Sergio Lyuk Torres.
    
    Has anyone ever heard of this kid?  Can he play?  Do you know of
    anyone else that's in the hunt for him?
    
    Any info is welcome.
    
    Redmen Phil
              
    

    Don't start drooling yet Chris...
    
    Montross met personally with Knight Monday night(he hasn't met with
    Fisher or Smith) and came away with a good feeling concerning how
    he would fit into the Hoosiers plans.
    
    Indiana is not out of it yet.....
    
    Cap

    Actually Montross would be a good fit for Hoosiers given their
    abundance of talent but lack of a big guy.  Michigan's got a lousy 
    coach and UNC already has a blue-chip 7 footer.
    
    If Knight could recruit worth a lick he'd already have this kid signed, 
    sealed, and delivered.  But he apparently can't (MrT himself said
    recruiting the big guys is the real trick) which is a glaring weak spot
    for Knight you Hucksters apparently don't find very important, cause all 
    I ever here is whining about no talent, rather than rightful condemnation 
    that Bob cain't get the studs anymore.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

    Big article in today's USA Today on Montross.  This kid sure is getting
    maximum media mileage outa his college decision.  Eric's dad said the
    meeting with Knight is being blown out of proportion.  Apparently news
    of the meeting generated zillions of calls to Michigan newspapers.  The
    meeting had been planned far in advance and in no way means Eric's
    leaning to the Hoosiers.  On the other hand he hasn't ruled them out
    either.
    
    Rumors have been flying on this thing, but one of the most fascinating
    was one involving Eric's dad (a lawyer) being offered a faculty
    position in the UNC law school!  Eric's dad flatly denied the rumor.
    
    Fascinating ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    OK, now I know why Purdue has no chance of getting Montross, we don't
    have a law school!
    
    Charles

>    Finally Dean paid a visit to see Mr. & Mrs. Montross the other day.
>    (Oh, I think son Eric was there too!  ;^)  No word on how Dean scored,
>    but the fact that Eric wanted to go ahead with his home visit tells me
>    Michigan ain't a lock yet.  
    
    The visit paid off.  I'm watching the evening news here in Charlotte
    and they just reported the 7 footer signed with the heels today.
    
    Buy yourself a drink, Chris...and buy me one to for tellin' ya first!
    
    	--dan'l

    dan'l is right - Montross will sign with the
    heels!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    YEEEEEHHHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
    
    I thought my leg might be being yanked, so I called up the Atlanta
    Constitution personally.  They confirmed that Eric Montross has
    announced his intention to sign with U N C!!!!!!!!!!
    
    This Caps (pun intended) Dean's all-time best recruiting class, easily
    the best in the USofA.  In fact, this could very well go down as one of
    the All-Time best groups of talent ever to enroll together in college.
    
    YEEEEEHAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

    
    That's all right, it just means 4 more years of high hopes and BIG
    LETDOWNS.  Dean will never change and I seriously doubt, no matter
    how much talent he brings in, that we will see another UNC title
    while Dean is there.

    The next question is, how will Dean %&*$^ up this group?
    
    NAZZ

come on chris...

answer the question....

If dean wins no titles over the next 4 years with this group of studs will 
you finally admit he is an UNDERACHIEVER?


metz

    re: metz
    
    Only if you'll admit that Dean has overachieved this year to bring his
    inferior club to the Sweet 16.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    Congrats to UNC for landing Montross and a great recruiting year,
    including the two supers from NYC, Reese and Phelps.
    
    My club, SJU, just got a commitment from 6'10" C/BF, Shawn(elle)
    Scott, out of NYC power (they beat Reese's HS in the NYC Catholic
    playoffs) All Hallows HS.  He's a plsyer, and should contribute
    next year.  Originally, the recruiting battle was down to a few
    BE schools and Georgia Tech, but lately it came down to SJU and
    Tennessee.  When Tennessee coach Wade Houston came to see Scott
    in the Catholic HS Championship game, Scott emerged from the locker
    room after the game in an SJU jacket and hat; Houston's supposed
    words at the time were: "I knew then that Shawn was not coming to
    Volunteer country". 
            
    Redmen Phil
              

    ACC Chris,
    
    It's an inferior club with 7 High School All-Americans on it.  That
    club has more talent from top to bottom than anyone in the ACC.
    
    King Rice was the best pt. guard in the nation, Fox was highly
    recruited as was Chilcutt.  Madden was the next Michael Jordan.
    
    Don't try to hide a weak effort behind the facade that Dean
    overachieved.  He had the talent, he just didn't take advantage
    of it.
    
    Cap

    Simple fact Cap:  HS All-Americans do not always translate into 
    College All-Americans.  An obvious point you seem to have missed
    somewhere along the way.
    
    Anybody who watched this years Carolina team will tell you they were
    not one of the better teams around, talent wise.  They were never a
    good ball handling team, not a good shooting team, and not a quick
    team.  I'd love to be able to point to last nights game as an
    example, but unfortunately missed over half of the 2nd half (the
    crucial part when Arkansas pulled away) to give any kind of appraisal. 
    But if it's as I suspect we went into an offensive tailspin, something
    that's happened countless times this year, where we simply could not
    put the ball in the basket.  
    
    IMHO, Dean got maximum mileage out of this group.  Congrats to
    Arkansas.  Stating the obvious, they were the superior team last night.
    
    Oh, and a *special* thanks to CBS for yet another great coverage job. 
    I have no problem with their cutaway to the UConn - Clemson game. 
    Obviously it was a great ending.  But first off they should've given
    more updates of the NC-Arkansas game.  At least post the score more. 
    Secondly, once UConn won the game was it *REALLY* necessary to show the
    replay THREE times, babble on and on, show the fans, show the players,
    show the replay a couple more times, show the coaches faces
    a million times (oh, the loser was sad and the winner happy, there's
    a real scoop for ya) blah, blah, blah.  Once the game ended, after one 
    replay, the people who were watching UNC-Arkansas should've been taken 
    back to their game. No question.  That's how ESPN would've handled it.  
    Instead we missed at least another 5 minutes of the 2nd half, which 
    just so happened to be the most important part of the game.  Once they 
    got back to the action the game was basically over.
    
    God those guys are awful.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    
    You're right, without the proper coaching they don't turn into College
    All-Americans.  Rice, Madden and Williams are perfect examples.
    
    Fact #2 on why Dean didn't overachieve and I'll use Shneideresque
    logic so you'll understand.
    
    I have pulled out two copies of pre-season mags and one lists UNC
    as the #7 seed in the nation and the best team in the ACC and the
    other lists UNC as the #8 team in the nation and the best team in
    the ACC.
    
    Dean didn't underachieve this year(though he choked big time last
    night and he admitted that he did as well.) but he definately didn't
    operachieve.
    
    Cap

    
    And I thought they put the staggered start times in to give us better
    coverage what a joke.
    
    But Chris, if a kid is a HS ALL-American, than it obvious he has
    potential, shouldn't a top notch coach be able to nature that talent
    and improve it?
    
    ;^)
    
    mike
    

    re: talent nurturing
    
    Eric Montross chose UNC over IU and Michigan because 10 of the 17
    centers recruited by Dean have been 1st round draft choices into the
    NBA.  It'll be 11 of 18 when Williams goes 1st round.  That's pretty
    good nurturing I'd say.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Chirs, doesn't wash any kid 6'11" or better gets a shot in the NBA.
    Also when you consider the improvement of Brad Daugherty in the NBA as
    oppose to his growth in college it doesn't say much for the nurturing
    job by Deanho....
    
    TSN pre-season #8 UNC....
    
    mike

    Remember Mike, Brad Daugherty entered college when he was 16 years old. 
    Kid was just a baby.  By the time he finished his career at UNC, he was
    20!   
    
    Here's a trivial question though:  Name the 10 centers who've played
    for Dean who've been drafted in the 1st round.  I couldn't come up with
    'em all, BTW.
    
    
    > The Tarheels were outcoached by the Razorbacks
    
    Don't know how you can say that /Don, unless you saw the crucial 10
    minutes of the 2nd half that the rest of the country missed.  
    
    
    
    
    
    

chris,

Deano should be in the sweet 16 every year with the talent he brings in. 
Now, answer the question with an answer not another question.

If Dean fails to win a championship with the "best" recruiting class he's ever 
had in the next 4 years will you admit he's an underachiever?

Metz


Gawd I'm starting to sound like groanowski asking the same question over and
over again....So will ya answer it this time ????

    How about off the top of my head :
    
    Joe Wolf,Tom LaGarde,Bob McAdoo,Mitch Kupchak,Brad Daugherty,Sam
    Perkins,Geoff Crompton,Bobby Jones,James Worthy,Rusty Clark.
    
    I'm sure I missed someone obvious.
    
    They had to play center for a time at UNC?

    
    Please Chris you're stretching it a bit here. As I seem to recall
    Daugherty was 17 years old by the time the season started. He also
    was a man child in terms of his body so why wasn't Dean able to teach
    him a few moves? I will give Dean credit for enhancing Brad's passing
    skills but that's about it.....
    
    mike

    re.63 
    
    
    
    JR Ried played center didnt he????

    re: .-1
    
    JR Reid's definitely one of 'em.  Nice memory by Mr. Lazarus, BTW.
    
    > Would Madden have made a difference???
    
    Tough to say.  Again, I really don't feel qualified to talk about the
    game since I (along with the rest of the USA) missed by far the most
    important stretch of the game.  CBS might as well not have shown the
    game at all for all intensive purposes.  They screwed up, and they
    suck.  And yes, they bought monopoly rights to the NCAA Tourney so we
    can expect the same in the future, just more of it.  Another great
    example of (inferior product + size) > superior product.  The Big 3
    automakers are expert in this type equation.
    
    Brad Daugherty had an outstanding 4 years at Carolina.  His game
    improved steadily during his career.  Nice touch, good passer.  Never
    had the bulk that he does today though.  Brad never took us to the
    Final 4, which of course Dean takes the blame for.  Now he's in the NBA
    and everybody talks about how great he is, yet has he lifted Cleveland
    to the NBA Title game, or even a conference championship?  No. 
    Conclusion:  Brad was solid in college and solid in the pros.  He's
    performing (relatively) the same.  He's yet to carry his team to the
    next level, the mark of the great player.  Blaming Dean is ridiculous. 
    Blaming Brad is ridiculous too.  He's a very good player, but not a
    great one.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>Deano should be in the sweet 16 every year with the talent he brings in. 

And he is.  10 years in a row of Sweet Sixteen.  Probably an All Time record.
By Metz's own criteria, Dean is an even-achiever.

    >Fact #2 on why Dean didn't overachieve and I'll use Shneideresque
    >logic so you'll understand.

Cap, I'm afraid you're not qualified to use Schneideresque (note the
spelling) logic.  You may, at times, if you're very careful and note the
proper handling procedures, use the infinitely inferior product which
runs rampant through this notesfile, fondly known as T-hypocrisy.

Dan

I'd say the sweet 16 was even achieving with the talent he has on this years
team. but with the talent he has had on past teams he shoul have more final
4 appearances and titles....This makes him an Underachiever...

Last time I'm gonna ask chris this question......

Chris...If dean doesn't win a title with Montross & co in the next 4 years will 
you admit to the underachiever tag?


metz

> Last time I'm gonna ask chris this question......

    Good, cause it's a trivial and ridiculous question.
    
> Chris...If dean doesn't win a title with Montross & co in the next 4 years 
> will you admit to the underachiever tag?
    
    I'll admit only that, on paper, this is Dean's all-time best
    recruiting year.  However, HS All-Americans do not necessarily
    translate into College All-Americans.  I will also admit that, as
    usual, expectations are gonna soar surrounding UNC basketball.  Heck,
    it won't be enough to be in the Final 4 around here.  Just another
    "Excellent Loss".  Gotta win a Title.  Maybe one isn't enough.  4
    Titles in 4 Years.  And if we do that, we'll just be even-achieving,
    right?
    
    I hope you get the picture that this is a rathole I don't like, cause
    it puts me in a no-win situation, which a fine gent (and Final 4
    Contest participant) like yourself should recognize as being rather 
    unsporting.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Well, I guess it's official :
    
    The Southwest Conference is BACK !!!!!!
    
    Two SWC teams in the Final 8, and only bad luck keeps the conference
    from possibly having two teams in the Final Four. 
    
    While I expected Arkansas to be there (great talent, and a highly
    underrated coach in Nolan Richardson), the incredible rise of Texas
    has been a story in itself. Enough can't be said about the job that
    Tom Penders has done, bringing back UT from the Dark Ages of Wetlitch.
    
    I'm looking forward to a SWC vs. LNLV/LMU championship game ....
    
    DrM

    re .-1: Not bad luck. Bad politics.
    
    Welcome to the Job Club, SWC, because your conference isn't Big Name
    enough for the NCAA to give you a decent shot at the title.
    
    You were jobbed. 
    
    ...mike
    

    Hey Big Mac,
    
    	Please, if you're going to stray off the topic, at least put it
    	in the right note..........many, many :^)'s
    
    Claybone

    re .72
    
    Thanks for the correction Mike. 
    
    The "wise men" (ha ha ha) of the NCAA tried the same crap on the
    Brothers of Phi Slamma Jamma about 10 years ago (1982-84 teams),
    but they were too good to be denied ....
    
    Doc

Yeah, the Big 10 is the biggest, in fact it has or will have 11. The Big
8, interestingly enough, has 8 schools and the Big East has 9. I'm not
sure about the Big West but I feel confident that it has less than 11.

That about covers the "Big" name conferences. Other conferences also
imply how big they are, like the PAC 10 (which follows the same
nomenclature system as the Big 8 - the number tells how many schools are
in the conference). Then there are the other conferences that are big in
stature but have regional names, like the Southeastern Conference (10
teams) and the ACC (8 teams).

No offense meant to any conference left out.

TTom

	I guess T is in awe of the current Michigan current, based on
	his confession in .77.

�    Now, we cain drop the subject and get on with our lives.
    

Okay, T, but the thing I've been dying to find out for about four
days now, is

	WHAT_IN_THE_HELL is a "cloaca"???

I've only got a pocket dictionary here in my cube, and I keep forgetting
to look it up when I get home at night.

Enlighten us here, and perhaps some of us more astute noters will
be able to build our budding vocabularies...

Chainsaw

    
    A cloaca is:
                      a) An Italian cape-like piece of clothing
                      b) A classic cola soft drink
                      c) A hot chocolate beverage with marshmallows
                         floating in it.
                      d) A neurological secretion similar to smegma
                         caused by facial tics.
                      e) All of the above
                      f) None of the above
    

Thing of a big bagt where everything ends up, right before it all goes
out.

Interesting conversation here between T and T. 

T, I'll concede that I've always been a fan of Bobby Knight. However, in
your efforts to discredit Dean, you keep bringing up the fack (tm) that
he's a lousy recruiter. Since this is a rather integral aspects of
success at the college level, I suggest that you try a new tact and not
keep reminding us of how horrible he is at getting and keeping talent. It
might start making some of us wonder if he really is all that great.

TTom

�    			5. A channel for moral filth.
    
�    MrT

	MrT, can you get this channel on cable?

			/Don

Thanks for the definition T.

If that's Umberto's latest novel that's 3rd on my list to read
following Clancy's "Clear and Present Danger", Ken Follet's new one
about the building of the 12th Century Cathedral, and interspersed
with King Henry V.....


re /Don:

	A channel for moral filth...sounds like some of them
	shows on Lifetime....8^)

    Saw,
    
    Read teh Leadership Principles of Attila the Hun firsted.
    
    JD

Gee JD, does the movie count?  

I saw it the other night...it was subtitled 'Rangers vs Islanders" 

8^) 8^) 8^)

Chainsaw

	I'm reading Clear and Present Danger.... not bad... his
characterizations are getting better (remember HFRO? If everbody'd died it
wouldn't have bothered me).

	Re: Fouc. Pend.

	Is this any good? His first book - The Name Of The Rose - got such
horrible reviews, I never bothered to read it.

Mike JN

PS -  When cleaning fish, you insert the tip of the knife blade in the cloaca
preparatory to ripping it's guts out.

>�    			5. A channel for moral filth.
>	MrT, can you get this channel on cable?
    
    No, but you can get it over the telephone.  Just dial 1-900-BOB-KNIGHT. 
    $1.95 for the first minute; $.50 for each additional minute.
    
    Dan

It's much much better if you call

		1-900-ONAN-DAN

You can hear DanDiatribes all day long....

8^)

    Unbelieveable - 25 notes and not a mention of college basketball!
    
    NAZZ

re: .91

Are you suggesting that for us to reach "a channel for moral filth" we
call Bob Knight? I should hope not.

BTW, Bob Knight is a BASKETBALL coach, and further, his RECRUITING has
been characterized as a self-inflicted handicap. 

TTom

    UConn signed 6'3" 2G Rich Ashameade out of a NYC Catholic HS.  I
    don't know much more than that.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    I saw bits and pieces of the game, but not enough to really provide
    expert commentary.  The paper was singing the praises of Khalid Reeves
    (Arizona bound) but when I saw him he looked a little, er, ragged. 
    Also Rozier put up some big numbers.  First time I'd seen Shawn Bradley
    play - was impressed with his touch.  Games like this are tough on the
    slow, big center types.  Also, the kid heading to Providence, Michael
    Smith, looks like man-child material.  
    
    Did see the slam-dunk contest and couldn't believe Bailey was in it.  I
    thought it was prerequisite that Bob only recruit slow, non-jumping,
    grad-student types?  Heh heh!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Path: shlump.nac.dec.com!decwrl!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!samsung!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cica!iuvax!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!peppler
From: [email protected] (Randy Peppler)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball
Subject: Spring Signing Early Results
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 12 Apr 90 22:42:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 50
 
Here's the early rundown on spring college basketball signings.  Two notes
first:  "The nation's top unsigned prospect is 6-8 forward Ed O'Bannon of
Lakewood, Calif.", according to the Chicago Tribune.  He has narrowed his
list to:  Arizona State, LSU, UNLV, USC, Syracuse, and UCLA.  And, Johnny
Selvie, a very gifted 6-6 forward from Chicago King, "is awaiting trial on
drug-related charges in Cook County Criminal Court.  His next hearing is
scheduled for Monday, when a trial date may be set."
 
Northwestern:	Eric Simpson	6-2	G	Chicago
		Pat Baldwin	6-1	G	Leavenworth, KS
Ohio State:	Jimmy Ratliff	6-8	F	Middletown, OH
		Joe Reid	6-8	F	Chagrin Falls, OH
Purdue:		Cuonzo Martin	6-6	F	East St. Louis, IL
Wisconsin:	Howard Moore	6-7	F	Chicago
De Paul:	Joe Daughrity	6-0	G	Oxnard (CA) CC
Illinois St:	Todd Wemhoener	6-2	G	Quincy, IL
		Charles Barnes	6-5	F	Chicago
Loyola (IL):	Kerman Ali	6-7	F	Chicago
		Craig Meyer	6-8	F	South Wayne, WI
		Russell Wilson	6-0	G	Minneapolis
N. Illinois:	Steve Oldendorf	7-1	C	Chicago
		Mark Layton	6-1	G	Chicago
Notre Dame:	Brooks Boyer	6-1 	G	Jackson, MI
S. Illinois:	Ian Stewart	6-8	F	LaPorte, IN
Auburn:		Wesley Person	6-5	G	Brantley, AL **Note the name!**
Arkansas:	Isaiah Morris	6-9	F	San Jacinto (TX) JC
		Ken Biley	6-6	F	Pine Bluff, AR
		Davor Rimac	6-7	F	Fayetteville, AR
		Corey Beck	6-4	G	Memphis
Butler:		Dan Allen	6-8	C	Appleton, WI
		Brian Beauford	6-5	F	NE Oklahoma A&M
Cleveland St:	Marvin McGrew	6-2	G	Morton Coll.
Dayton:		Andy Gaydosh	6-8	F	Richmond, IN
Drake:		Brian Keuter	6-8	F	Iowa City, IA
Iowa State:	Donnell Bivens	6-5	F	Rantoul, IL
		Saun Jackson	6-5	F	Chicago
		Brad Pippett	6-5	F	N. Iowa Area CC
Kentucky:	Gimel Martinez	6-10	C	Miami
Louisville:	Kip Stone	6-4	G	Jacksonville
		Brian Hopgood	6-10	F	Oklahoma City
North Carolina:	Eric Montross	7-0	C	Indianapolis
Valparaiso:	Eric Suiter	6-6	F	Chicago
Xavier:		DeWaun Rose	6-8	F	Chicago
		Tyrice Walker	6-4	G	Hamilton, OH
		Brian Grant	6-8	F	Georgetown, OH
-- 
_________________                              _
| Randy Peppler |______________               / \        x
| Illinois State Water Survey |       ________| |________|____________Illinois
| [email protected]    |      /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /

    Supposedly, Lou Carnesecca spent the week prior to Easter in Madrid,
    Spain, recruiting 6'8" swingman Sergio Lyuck (spelling?), who had
    played in Lexington, Ky this past season as a high schooler.  He
    averaged 28 ppg, 6 apg and 10+ rpg at some "Country Day School".
    
    Has anyone heard of this guy?  Anyone down south know of him?
    
    Any info is welcomed.
    
    Redmen Phil
                                                                   
    

    Some recent recruiting notes:
    
    Seton Hall signed Arturas Karnisovas, a 6'8" F from Lithuania who
    was the leading scorer on the Soviet National team last year.
    
    Georgetowen signed Pascal Fleury, a 7'2" C from Canada and 6'7"
    PF Brian Kelly from Cincinnati.
    
    Redmen Phil
     
    

    >	Seton Hall signed Arturas Karnisovas, a 6'8" F from Lithuania who
    >   was the leading scorer on the Soviet National team last year.
    
    Parade in April!
    
    
    Paul_proud_to_be_Lithuanian

    Paul, plenty of room on the bandwagon. Alot of the fair weather fans
    jumped off due to this past season. We're not letting them back on the
    bandwagon....YA HEAR THAT YOU FAIR WEATHER FANS!@!!

Anyone have final recruiting information?  The Spring signing period
ended 5/15, and I haven't seen anything yet.

Joe

    Surprised nobody mentioned this - last week USA Today published their
    annual summation of letter-of-intent signees.  The issue was Thursday,
    May 24.  I'm going to put together a summary of the top conferences
    like I did last year, but if anybody has any specific questions about
    who signed who, either pick up the issue (if possible) or ask in here
    and I'll let ya know.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

>    - ACC Chris

Chris,

Where did Shon Tarver go ?  UNLV ?  Did SU only get Autry, Moten and McCorkle ?


Joe

    Only those 3 are listed for SU.  Only 1 guy is listed for UNLV (H
    Waldman) even though they've got commitments from 2 other guys. 
    (O'Bannon and I'm 90% sure the other one is Tarver.)  The reason these
    2 aren't listed in USA Today is cause they're only listing kids who've
    signed a Letter of Intent.  In a seemingly classy move (although he
    might've just done it to impress these 2 kids, who knows) Tarkanian got
    buy-off from the NCAA's to allow these kids to back out if UNLV gets
    socked with probation.  (Outcome is still pending.)  As a result, they
    didn't have to sign a letter of intent.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

What follows is the 1990 Conference Recruiting Rankings, according to
the Poop Sheet.  A point system is employed whereby the top eight
prepsters (all rated at least potential near-superstars) on the list
are worth six (6) points for the school/conference that landed him, 
numbers nine (9) through 25 count five points each, 26-50 four points,
51-75 three (3) points, 76-100 two (2) points, and 101-165 one point.  
The top 10 rated jucos are worth five (5) points apiece, while numbers
11-25 are worth four (4) points apiece.

Without question, the ACC led the nation in recruiting (2nd year in a row).

Enjoy,


- ACC Chris



1990 CONFERENCE RECRUITING RANKINGS
-----------------------------------

Conference	1-50  51-  101-  JC      #/Pts
                      100  165   1-25

ACC             10     7    6     0     23/73
Big East         7     6    7     1     21/59
Metro            6     4    3     1     14/46
Big 10           4     7   10     0     21/45
Pac 10           6     2    4     2     14/44
SEC              4     6    3     0     13/35
Big West         3     1    0     2      6/27
SWC              1     2    1     3      7/23
Big 8            2     2    3     1      8/19
WAC              1     2    3     1      7/19
SunBelt          1     1    1     2      5/19
Atlantic 10      2     2    4     0      8/17
Midwest          0     2    1     0      3/ 7
WCAC             0     0    1     1      2/ 6
Southland        0     0    1     1      2/ 5
AmSouth          1     0    0     0      1/ 5
MidCont          0     0    1     0      1/ 1
Met Atl          0     0    1     0      1/ 1
Colonial         0     0    1     0      1/ 1
Independent      1     0    2     1      4/10
Undecided        1     6   14     9     30/73
    

> ACC             10     7    6     0     23/73

Hey Chris, how many of these points came from NC's recruiting class ?
If my hunch is right, these #s are more a reflection of how well NC
did, than how well the ACC did.  The Big East had pretty balanced
recruiting throughout the conference.


Joe

Acrtually, Duke and Wake Forest were ranked in the top 10, with 5 singees
each. Virginia, Clemson and Maryland were also ranked in the article.

No Carolina definitely led the nation, though.

TTom

    See SJU Redmen note 75 for info on an SJU transfer.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

Jamie Brandon - 1st team, blue chip, from Chicago King - has failed on
his third try to pass the ACTs. He'll won't play his first year at
Illinois.

TTom

    Justin Thompson - one of the nation's top guard prospects - has failed
    to pass the ACTs.  He's enrolling at Chipola (Fla) JC.  If he'd passed,
    he would've attended the University of Georgia.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    Some of Tark's top recruits are considering a transfer because of
    UNLV's probation.  Although this illegal for Frieder to comment on,
    rumor has it that Tark told them to go to ASU.
    
    ASU may make the PAC-10 interesting if this materializes.
    
    Mike

Another almost-Running Rebel: Forward, Ed O'Bannon, has announced that he
will attend UCLA.

He joins Shon Traver who declared Saturday.

TTom

Alan Henderson said Monday that he will attend Indiana in the fall.

Also, Todd Lindeman a 7' center from Michigan says that he too will go
with Bobby Knight.

TTom

    Ttom you just made my day......
    
    With Henderson coming, maybe Funderburke will be back on the team
    come January.  He's back in classes and supposedly wants to return
    to playing.....
    
    Funderburke quit last year because he felt IU's offense hurt his
    wide-open style of play.
    
    What a line-up they could field next year....
    
    Bailey, Cheaney, Henderson, Anderson and Funderburke.
    
    With Reynolds, Meeks, P. Graham, G Graham and Lindeman off the bench.
                                                                         
    Cap

>    Bailey, Cheaney, Henderson, Anderson and Funderburke.

Which one is 6'3"? A grad student? Couldn't resist.

With that lineup, Bobby had better win the big one. Think of all that
talent being squandered and no championship. Also, we'll want to keep
count of the excellent losses.

TTom

    
    When Knight has 20+ straight years of talent like this we'll see
    how many titles he has won...... :-)
    
    

    I have seen notes on these BIG EAST commits thus far:
    
    SJU - None thus far.  
          6'3" G Lee Green (So/Prop 48)
          6'6" F Lamont Middleton (Jr/Tfr)
    
    Miami - 6'7" SF Pat Lawrence (Fl)
            7'3"  C Constantin Popa (Va)
    
    Pitt - 6'7" SF Orlando Antigua (NYC)
           5'9" PG Jerry McCullough (NYC)
           6'7" SF Chris Gant (Tx)
    
    Providence - 6'2" PG Matt Alosa (NH)
                 6'8" BF Mike Smith (So/Prop 48)
                 6'5" 2G Robert Phelps (So/Prop 48)
    
    Gtown - None thus far.
    
    Seton Hall - 6'0"  PG Danny Hurley (NJ)
                 6'11"  C Luther Wright (S0/Prop 48)
                 
    Villanova - None thus far.
    
    BC - 6'?" G Terry Roundtree (Ct) 
    
    Syracuse - 6'7" SF    Glenn Sekunda (NJ)
               6'2" PG/2G Anthony Harris (Ct)
               6'4" 2G    Lazarus Sims (NY)
               6'6" SF    Luke Jackson (Tx)
               6'5" 2G/SF Lawrence Moten (So/Prop 48)
    
    UConn - 6'2" PG/2G Kevin Ollie (Ca)
            6'6" SF    Donny Marshall (Wa)
            6'7" SF    Rudy Johnson (Fl)
            6'3" 2G    Brian Fair (Az)
            6'3" 2G    Rich Ashmeade (So/Prop 48)
            6'10" C/BF Nantambu Willingham (Ga)
    
    If anyone has any others (commits and/or rumors), please let me know.
    
    Redmen Phil    
                                        

    It seems unlikely that ThunderBurp will go back to Bob next 
    semester.  The word now is that he plans to finish off the
    required number of credits and then transfer either to Tennessee
    or, I think, Kaintucky.
    
    I've heard that Lindemann is skinny and a bit of a project.  He
    passed up the major All-Star games last year, but hopefully will
    go this year, cuz given that he's only played against the kind of
    comp seen in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan he's got to be a big
    question mark.
    
    But at least he's big.  Not even a genius like Bob cain teach
    someone how to be tall.  Although, now that I think about it he
    purty much did just that with his 6-3 grad student forwards...
    
    If he's any good at all I look for him to play in the middle with 
    Nover as a backup forward and Lawson as a backup center.
    
    Big10 Tom

If Funderburke sits out as detailed, he will be free of Bobby's
involuntary servitude and allowed to pursue his collegiate basketball
career. 

One question, is there any chance that he might think he can go directly
to the pros?

TTom