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Conference ssag::ask_ssag

Title:Ask the Storage Architecture Group
Notice:Check out our web page at http://www-starch.shr.dec.com
Moderator:SSAG::TERZAN
Created:Wed Oct 15 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:6756
Total number of notes:25276

6522.0. "backup speed disk v/s DLT" by XFMV01::AJITK () Thu Mar 27 1997 05:26

Hi 

A customer is using an Alphaserver 2100 5/250 (2CPU)
with 512MB on Digital UNix. The Oracle database is on external
disks connected thru a pair of HSZ40s (32MB writebackcache)
inside SW300. 

The disks are configured in 2 raid-sets of 32GB each. 
One is meant for the database and the other for a 
backup of the database. 

Customer's question is what is the fasted way of backing
up/copying the complete RAID set of 32GB to the backup
RAID set and how much time will it take. Each of the 
disks in the RAID set is a 4GB narrow disk. 

In general how does backup to a disk compare to a backup
to a DLT tape TZ88 in terms of speed. 

Thanks in advance.

Ajit Kale
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
6522.1SSDEVO::ROLLOWDr. File System's Home for Wayward Inodes.Thu Mar 27 1997 07:5837
	Is the database on a file system or raw device?  If a
	file system, which one?  If a file system, is the data
	reasonably contiguous?

	Any backup will first be potentially limited by how fast
	you can read data off the disk.  For sequentially reading
	data UNIX file systems can read a bit faster than from
	a raw device, because the file systems support read-ahead
	(I know UFS does, I'm pretty sure AdvFS does).  But, if the
	data is not well organized, what read-ahead there is will
	limited by how large the reads will be.

	The next potential limit is the bus bandwidth.  If the arrays
	are on the same HSZ then the SCSI bus can be a limit.  In a 
	perfect world Fast/Wide SCSI-2 is capable of 20 MB/sec.  With
	the arrays on the same HSZ neither will likely get more than
	half and it does, the other loses.  While the array may support
	higher bandwidth, the controller and host connection may not.

	The next and most likely limit is writing to the array.  RAID-5
	writes are well known for being slow.  The cache will help for
	a few seconds, but after that you're limited by how fast you
	can write to the array.  Depending on how you move the data
	if the HSZ sees relatively large write requests it can use the
	RAID-3 write algorithms, which are better for sequential writes.
	Unfortunately, the HSZ limits I/Os to 64 KB, so you're dependent
	on the cache to collect enough data to write in larger swaths.

	For a single large file on UNIX or a raw file system, dd(1)
	is probably the simplest thing to use.  It will let you set
	the block size, which can be larger than the 64 KB limit of
	the HSZ, since the driver *will* crave up the larger requests
	into smaller ones.  If using a raw device you'll probably need
	to use a block size that is a factor of the device size.  My
	guess is that your performance will be write limited.  I don't
	recall what the RAID-5/3 sequential write performance is like,
	but it could easily be better than that of an TZ88.
6522.2DECWET::ONOSoftware doesn't break-it comes brokenFri Mar 28 1997 10:4215
If you use NetWorker Save and Restore and its Data Module for
Oracle, you can backup multiple data files or multiple raw
partitions in parallel.  These parallel streams can be directed
to multiple tape drives.  You also have the ability to backup the
database while it is online (in archivelog mode). 

If you use multiple tape drives, you'll probably be limited by 
your ability to read data from the source RAID set.

Start with DECWET::NETWORKER (dir/title=dmo) and the SPDs (50.98,
64.46) for more information. To see what a near-term future
release can do, see http://www.legato.com/press/digora_pr.html 

Wes Ono
NetWorker Engineering
6522.3some clarifications XFMV01::AJITKTue Apr 01 1997 23:5519
ref.1 

some clarifications :

1. The customer uses AdvFS and the database would normally
have few, large files. 

2. All the disks will be connected to a single HSZ40.

3. There is a single TZ87/TZ88 drive available as an 
   alternate to disk backup. 

I have seen single DLT backups (on a turbolaser at a different
customer site) at a speed of 5gb/hr (tar) to 7gb/hr (dump). 
How would the disk backup in note .0 compare with this,
what kind of backup speed can be expected, say with dd or
dump. 

Ajit 
6522.4KITCHE::schottEric R. Schott USG Product ManagementWed Apr 02 1997 14:5120
Hi

 Without more data or a test, it is not possible to know.

At 5 gig/hour that is 1.5 MB /sec...and 7 gig an hour is is aroun
2.2 MB/sec...that is pretty much tape speed depending on a bunch
of factors...the disk has to be doing that much I/O also...

In theory, the HSZ can do 8-12 MB second...so in theory if this is
I/O bound, the tape is the bottleneck.  You could backup to disk, or
use another tape drive....I would suggest the tape drive myself
as the disk backups still don't give you the ability to move it
away from the machine (and the HSZ).

regards

Eric

PS: I agree with .-1, use NetWorker.