Conference giadev::decstation

You can drop in an Intel 166MHz MMX OverDrive chip - don't even need to change
jumpers.  That would be the way to go.  Cyrix doesn't offer "upgrade" chips - 
and neither does AMD, if I read things correctly.

Faster memory won't do anything except drain your wallet faster.  70ns
is the correct speed to use.

				Steve

    Steve are you saying leave the jumpers as configured for the P100?
    
    I've seen how the Cyrix 166+ outruns my P133 (Starion 940) and want to
    upgrade too.  Actually my investigation concluded I could only use the
    Cyrix because it used the 66mhz with 2X clock.  If I can get the Intel
    166 MMX overdrive to work, I'll go that way.  It's amazing how quickly
    I feel outdated but my son showed me how much better Monster Truck
    Madness ran on a CTX system (I just bought) with Cyrix 166+ vs. our
    Starion 940 that I already upgraded to 24M and 16X CD. I purchased the
    CTX system for $819 on an on-line auction.           
    
    Thanks for any comments or help
    
    Bill                                      

    You can change the clock jumpers to the 66Mhz and the 2x by jumpering
    J21. J22, and J27. This will allow you to use the 166Mhz Pentium
    Overdrive. If you leave the jumpers the way there are now, you
    probable will get 150Mhz.
    
    regards,
    glen kelley

Um, the OverDrive will ignore the clock multiplier inputs, so as long as the
input clock is 66MHz, as it is for a P100, the 166 OverDrive will give you
166.  Now if your system had a P90, as my Celebris 590 did, then you would have
to change some jumper to get a 66MHz clock input, but if you already have a
P100, then just drop in the new chip.

Cyrix explicitly says that the 6X86 is NOT recommended as a "Pentium Upgrade"
as it requires specific BIOS support, which I'm sure the Starion doesn't
have.

				Steve

    OK but you're talking about P100 and I'm talking P133 (Starion 940).
    Reports indicate the  upgrade from INTEL is only for the P75, P90 or
    P100, "to boost your system's performance to between 125 and 166 MHZ"
    
    For P120, 133, 150, 166 or 200 the overdrive MMX upgrade will not be
    available until the " latter half of this year".  But my confusion
    (alot these days) is that I thought the motherboards were the same for
    both the Starion 930 and 940 with only a clock (jumper change) to run
    either P133 or P100.  If that's the case; then couldn't I jumper for a
    P100, throw in the Overdrive MMX and have a P166???
    
    Or should I wait for a Overdrive MMX upgrade for a P133??
    
    Sorry if I'm showing my ignorance with these questions.
    
    Bill 

    re: .5 by GRANPA::WSCHNAUFFER
    
    The system can only control 2 factors: external clock speed and cpu
    multiplier setting.  The latter is limited by time of manufacture.  For
    instance, early motherboards were not designed with higher
    core/external clock ratios because these were not defined at time of
    manufacture.  Overdrive chips remove the second factor from the
    motherboard's control.  They are hard wired for a set core/external
    clock ratio.  Thus, only the first factor (external clock speed) is of
    any consequence for overdrive upgrades.  Up till recently, external
    clock speeds ran at 50MHz, 60MHz, and 66MHz.  CPUs with core speeds
    that are multiples of 33MHz are clocked externally by 66MHz clocks.
    
    Except for odd systems where 100MHz CPUs are clocked at 2x 50MHz
    external clocks, these 100MHz systems use a 66MHz external clock and
    are upgradeable to the same degree as 133MHz systems, using the same
    overdrive chips.
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    /Bill

    The base note referred to the Starion 930 (100MHz).  But from the
    perspective of an OverDrive upgrade, the 100 is the same as the 133.
    
    I wouldn't think a 133-166 upgrade would be cost-effective - the actual
    performance difference isn't as much as the clock speed difference
    would indicate.  I went from 90 to 166 and got a 50% improvement.
    
    					Steve

    RE: -.1
    
    Bingo! Most trade rags feel spending the money on MEMORY rather than
    133->166 upgrades is by FAR the best way to increase overall
    application performance (No CPUmark, but something like Winstone97).
    
    In fact, I'd venture to say if you have a 100mhz or greater CPU today,
    then I'd probably opt for more memory rather than faster CPU today if
    you wish to run real applications (as opposed to CPUmark  testing).
    
    Memory is cheap, CPU's and Overdrives are relatively expensive. For
    $250 you can get perhaps 64meg (4 x 4meg @ about $65 each). For about
    $400 you can get a P166 upgrade of some kind ($500 for MMX). You'll
    find the $250 a better place to put your money, and still have $200 in
    your pocket for a CPU upgrade in a year or so.
    
    Mark

Yup - I agree.  I already had 32MB in my system and had a P90, so I figured
the processor upgrade was worthwhile, but to be honest, the subjective 
difference is marginal.

				Steve

    Thanks for the replies.  I did the upgrade in memory once already to
    24M from 16M.  I guess I should have gone further but now have two 4M
    chipsets sitting in a drawer and I'm not real thrilled to have two 8M
    boards joining the dust bigrade.  However auction prices look like
    generic 32M memory (for a total of 64 additional) can be bought for
    around $300-350.  But then again a mailorder firm has the Overdrive MMX
    for $380 something.
    
    I literally saw a big difference in my CTX 166+ (16M mem) vs. the
    Starion w/P133 (24M mem) running the Monster Truck Madness.  I never
    expected the difference to be so obvious in smoothness of video, sound
    and play.
    
    So, I would still like opinions on going for the existing Intel MMX 
    Overdive (100-166MHZ)( and I guess I'm hearing it should work in the
    Starion 940 ) OR waiting for the next generation of MMX Overdrive for the
    P120 or higher group without price as a consideration.
    
    all opinions are requested and respected...thanks
    
    Bill
            

Thanks for all the replies to my basenote.  I have to admit
I'm uncertain what a 166 Mhz will do for me over and above
my upgrade to 40 Mb memory based on some replies.  The
comment that a game (Monster madness) played smoothly with
a speed boost is most interesting.  The one place where I
can visibly see something lacking is with Hellbender (MS
game in W95).  At high image quality even with hardware
acceleraor option on (have a Number 9 332 with 2 Mb) motion
is jerky.

In the real world, only loading some of the whizzy graphics
and tools for the MS Office suite seems to drag at times. 
Would like that a bit more snappy.

Probably will go for a 166 with MMX when I find the best
price.

Thanks again,
Frank

I would suggest that the game's improved speed had more to do with the video
card than the processor.  The Starion 940 has an S3 Trio 764, which is ok,
but not exactly the latest in barn-burning (truck-stomping?) speed.  Perhaps
$150 for a Matrox Mystique would be called for?

					Steve

    Good point.  The comparison was not even with just a cpu difference and
    maybe there are other factors contributing to the results.  Also the
    application allows you to select CPU speed but only has three settings
    which are less than 100 mhz, 100-133 and 166 or more.  The CTX runs
    best at the 166/more setting and blows away the Starion.  the Starion
    runs best at the 100/more setting and runs worse in 166/more setting. 
    This leads me to believe that the software does not utilize any
    difference from 100 to 133 MHZ but has enhancements that work for the
    166.  This game is available to run on the net (for free) which my son
    does occasionally and would like to have it running at top performance. 
    Maybe I need to find a buyer for the Starion and move into the 200MHZ
    MMX world.  and yes I need to put a COMPLETE package together for
    optimum performance.
    
    thanks, take care
    
    Bill

{Screwed up and made this new note at 7442}

Hi again,

Well, I got the Overdrive, went through the diag. supplied on the floppy
which said my system DID NOT need a BIOS upgrade and that it was
compatible with the Overdrive chip, removed the old chip then installed
the new one.

When I booted up I got through RAM checks (200:) successfully, but then it
hung on cache check (180:) - no way to get to setup (Press F2) at this
point or up do it.  The error or step reads:


        180:  Cache configuration

It never gets to POST (no beeps, etc.), just a few seconds into boot
operation.

Looking through the specs, the previous Pentium 100 MHz had 8K internal
cache and the overdrive has 16K.  I assume if I can get to SETUP I can
reset cache.  However, it doesnt help to RTFM.  There is nothing provided
in either the info supplied with the OD chip or the Starion manual to
indicate what to change.  So here is my plan:

1.	Reinstall the old chip

2.	Power on and go into SETUP

3.	Change cache.  Hopefully it will be intuitive

4.	Save changes and power down.

5.	Do another install of the OD chip

6.	Powerup and hope it works.

Any thoughts here?  I am concerned I may change to a cache that won't work
with either CPU.  If so how do I get past an early 180: hang?

Regards,
Frank

Update of .14:

Though a lot of swapping the original CPU with the Overdrive CPU, Cache disabling,
jumper switching, BIOS changing (those avail for 930 on PC support ftp), talking to
Intel and some Digital folks, I've the following results:

Regardless of BIOS 1.03 or 1.04 for the 930:

1.	Overdrive chip hangs system at 180: cache configuration with external cache
	enabled

2.	Regardless of CPU, internal cache causes PCI resource conflict during boot
	sending it to Setup

3.	Overdrive CPU functions with external cache disabled with the expected
	performance hit

4.	Jumpers don't help but can be set to slow down CPU

5.	With OD chip in, even with external cache disabled, video demos are as good
	or better (I think) than orig. but disk or CD loading is slower.

Bottom line, Intel has a "Case number" open for cache/OD chip problem and are
supposedly going to work it out with "the engineers at Digital".  I'll  need to keep
looking for the next BIOS upgrade that will hopefully fix it.

/FGH 

    also with a 930 watching this thread carefully....
    
    Hope you get it to work.... wonder if your Intel case number has
    changed lately ;(

re: .16

Whatever result I get I will post here.

BTW, I received a call from an Intel Apps engineer last evening who
had me review the problem and exercise the system with the OD using
a demo that came with it.  To his credit, he was as helpful as I
think he could be at this poin.  However, he would need to consult
with Digital engineering about the cache hangup.  He faltered a bit
with that, citing recent "news headlines" and a need to get
clearance to do it.  He did promise to get back next week with what
prospects for solution were before my ability to return it to the
supplier expired - in about 20 days.

/Frank