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Conference orarep::nomahs::rdb_60

Title:Oracle Rdb - Still a strategic database for DEC on Alpha AXP!
Notice:RDB_60 is archived, please use RDB_70..
Moderator:NOVA::SMITHISON
Created:Fri Mar 18 1994
Last Modified:Fri May 30 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5118
Total number of notes:28246

5108.0. "File optimizer software... yeah or neah?" by BROKE::BASTINE () Wed Mar 05 1997 13:16

Anyone know if it is safe to run Digital's Polycenter file optimizer on disks
that "house" rdb files while those files are being used?

A customer asked and I checked stars, but couldn't find any references to 
Digital's Polycenter file optimizer product.  I did find other notes on disk
compression software,and they indicated that as long as the products understood
the i/o subsystem and compressed/uncompressed according to certain guidelines
it should be OK, but test first.  Is that how we still present this information?
The notes were pretty old.

Do we have a stand on whether or not folks should run file optimizers on disks
that contain RDB/RDA files?

Thanks,
Renee
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
5108.1Unsupported without prejudiceNOMAHS::SECRISTRdb WWS; [email protected]Wed Mar 05 1997 18:2644
    
    The bottom line is that since disk defragmenters are not Oracle
    software we do not support them (there is an article along these
    lines in the Oracle7 info made available by WebIV in the UK at
    http://www-sup.uk.oracle.com/cgi-bin/iv/do.pl).  We do not 
    officially make any recommendations one way or other other on 
    their use anywhere I've ever seen though.
    
    Disk defragmenters are like any software and the best rule of
    thumb is to treat the other software companies the way we want
    to be treated (e.g. do you have a reproduceable case, are you
    up to the latest patch level, etc. although reproducing those
    kinds of bugs is most unplesant) ?
    
    The other problem is that even the official DEC-supported defragmentation
    product, since it is software, can suffer from bugs that render Rdb,
    etal. useless (such as the bug in the movefile VMS primitive many
    moons ago).  
    
    The best thing you can do is make sure the product 1) doesn't move open
    files -- even if they're closed locally but open on another node in the
    cluster -- and 2) respects the SET FILE/NOMOVE attribute in the file
    header (and personally I like to size my databases correctly and do
    a SET FILE/NOMOVE on the whole database so the products will leave the
    database alone).  It would be unwise to use any product if they
    didn't know the answer to these two questions.
    
    Personally I believe that the kind of file traffic that fragments a
    disk should be kept on spindles that the database files are not on
    simply for performance reasons and that databases should be sized 
    proactively so that they do not fragment themselves enough to warrant 
    help from defragmenting software.  If you have enough disk space to
    do that then you can just have the defragmenters ignore the database
    disks.  Likewise people should do some kind of quantitative
    assessment looking at DIR/FULLs or something to see if file
    fragmentation is really an issue for them so they can make an
    intelligent decision based on the actual risk versus benefit.
    
    Regards,
    rcs
    
    
    
    
5108.2It *should* work... :)BOUVS::OAKEYI'll take Clueless for $500, AlexWed Mar 05 1997 20:0225
>>    <<< Note 5108.1 by NOMAHS::SECRIST "Rdb WWS; [email protected]" >>>
>>                       -< Unsupported without prejudice >-
    
>>    The bottom line is that since disk defragmenters are not Oracle
>>    software we do not support them (there is an article along these

Ahhh, the mysterious word "support" :)

From many years ago, I believe the engineer position on disk defragmenters 
is that:

	- you may defragment devices which have Rdb database files if
		the database is closed (on all nodes).

	- you may defragment devices which have Rdb database files if the
		database is open AND the defragmenting tool does not
		defragment open files.

Database files should rarely need defragmentation so these should not be a 
limitation.

I also strongly recommend (really, in all cases:) that a proven backup
*and* recovery/restore strategy be established to ensure database health in
the event there is some type of unanticipated problem. 

5108.3thxBROKE::BASTINEThu Mar 06 1997 08:303
Thanks to all!

Renee