Conference hbahba::cam_sports

    
    
    
     I agree with most of what you said.  Two exceptions though.....
    
    1) Gilmour -vs- Greatzky great entertainment...I expected more
    from a Leaf fan.  
    
    2) Greatzky the greatest ever...not even close go back about 25
    years and watch some clips of Orr...he was the greatest ever.
    
    Jerry

I'll take Gretzky v. Gilmour, myself.  Roenick v. Neely means Chicago v.
Boston, which has a chance of being entertaining when both teams are
playing on full-sized surfaces.

Comparing Gretzky and Orr is IMO essentially impossible, as they played
different positions.  It is undeniable, however, that each redefined
the way the game is played, and left an impression that will live longer
than their lines in the record book.

I was disgusted during this year's cup final, when I heard commentators
saying in all seriousness than Brian Leetch might even be playing better
than Orr.  Even if Pavel Bure hadn't been skating around him three times
a game, that would have been ludicrous.  Not to knock Leetch, who might
be the best offensive defenseman in the game right know, but Orr is the
prototype of the breed.  He reinvented his position; all who follow,
including Leetch, learned the game from him.  Orr didn't learn the
game, he created it.

There will, I'd bet, be fewer who learn the game from Gretzky (Adam
Oates and Craig Janney come to mind), because his game requires a
calibre of mind few will bring to the table.  Gretzky's ability to
see the ice and anticipate the action is purely wonderful, but it
can't be taught or consciously emulated.  It's there or it isn't.
Oates and Janney have something like it, but neither of them has
made a 40-goal man out of a Mike Krushelnyski or a 20-goal man of
a Dave Semenko.

Steve

    
    Worcester Mass now has an AHL team which is unaffiliated with an NHL
    team. What a difference from Bruins games at the old Garden.
    
    Programs come with explanations for basic rules. Music (loud, LOUD
    music) is played at every single stoppage in play. The refs are, in a
    word, dreadful. When fights break out, the music they play is "Hit Me
    With Your Best Shot." Shades of the Paul Newman movie, Slapshot.
    
    Having said all that, I got a hockey fix. The level of play wasn't all
    that bad. The seats were great (at $10) and the home team won. A good
    time was had by all.
    
    Go "Icecats"
    
    

    Atlanta, GA, home of the Turner Cup Champion (IHL) Knights, still has
    hockey.  Probably going to go downtown and catch a couple of games this
    year with my daughters.
    
    Local paper said that if the NHL cannot salvage at least a 50 game
    season, then the whole season may be cancelled.  Looks like the NBA and
    NCAA kicked in some more money to keep these guys out:-)
    
    UMDan

    If there's no season what about the Stanley Cup.  It was granted to the
    NHL circa 1917 to be awarded to it's playoff champion (after the
    Western League folded).
    
    Now if the NHL cannot run a tournement can they deny another group's
    running one?
    
    Is there an heir of Lord Stanley within the sound of my voice?
    
    billte

This strike is really starting to piss me off.  I am headed to Buffalo for 
the holidays and planned on attending a game or two.   This is the last
year for the decrepant (sic?) Aud to be in existence.  This may not mean
much for most people, but I have fond memories of the early seventies 
hanging out when the Sabres were first formed.  If they settled the strike
tomorrow, they probably wouldn't start play until early January.  

Bettman is a complete jerk who doesn't understand the resilience of hockey 
players.  The players have a point and so do the owners.  As in baseball
someone has got to move towards the middle.  Both sides don't want to budge.


Paul (an american who misses hockey)

    Bettman was given the ok to cancel the season any time he feels that
    they could not complete a 50 games ched, and 4 rounds of playoffs. 
    Could the season be DAID!!!!
    
    Not Good!!!
    
    RTG

As I've probably mentioned in here before, my father is on a first-name
basis with Emile Francis.  Emile said that when the players offered to
guarantee no strike, Bettman should have taken them up on it.  He said a
lockout is stupid.

Personally, I think that hockey stood to gain an awful lot this year with
baseball on strike.  Now they're way, way behind.....


'Saw

Hi Kids,
	 Just writing to say that I think the season is toast.  It would be
ridiculous to even thing about starting hockey up now.  Already went up
north to not see a game...It really stinks.  Kind of paying attention to 
the Atlanta Knights, it's not the same though.  Getting real jaded with pro
sports in general.

Paul

    Interesting comment made last night on ESPN Sportscenter.  Onr of the
    commentators said something like "No league that ever went out on
    strike (or some other dispute), with the intent of coming back the next
    season, has come back." (or something like that)
    
    Wonder if the NHL can survive, and if they can retain their fans after
    a complete season off.
    
    UMDan

>   Interesting comment made last night on ESPN Sportscenter.  Onr of the
>   commentators said something like "No league that ever went out on
>   strike (or some other dispute), with the intent of coming back the next
>   season, has come back." (or something like that)

Did they cite any actual examples?  Or is this just a case of going
oh-for-oh?  I can't offhand think of any major leagues to which this
might apply.

Anyway, I disagree.  Sure, the NHL can come back.  Some franchises might
be in trouble, though.

BTW, is hockey in fact toast?  My understanding from CNN International is
that the players have til Tuesday to accept an offer (admittedly draconian)
from the owners, including a rookie cap, modified arbitration, unrestricted
free agency at 32, and NO salary cap or luxury tax.

Steve

    
    
        Yes they gave examples. USFL,WAFL, and a couple others...
    
    
    Chap

I don't remember either the USFL or the WAFL/WLAF having labor problems.
The latter was in fact by no means a failure here in Europe, and I believe
the intent is to start it up again as a purely European league.

Steve

    I'm still convinced there will be hockey.  Unfortunately some of the
    players made comments during the last critical stages and the mongolian
    element of nhl owners decided to drive one last stake into the players
    in retaliation for not laying down on the cap issue.
    
    Here is a case of the owners locking out players and now expecting them
    to pay for the lockout.  The players last offer was as absurdly
    generous and if I were them would take it off the table permanently.
    But in actuality there will be a compromise sometime this week as the
    owners are cowards at heart and won't give up the money to be generated
    by tv of playoffs.

    Sounds like the players are going to accept the owners latest proposal
    at 11:00 this morn.  According to Ray Bourque, they are giving up too
    much, but someone has to bend.
    
    Here's hopin for a return, even if it is only 50 games.
    
    RTG

WEEI reported at 10:30 that there was movement on 3 issues. 
Report in Canadian Press is that free agency is a MAJOR stumbling block.

Well owners want it to start at 32, players at 30; minimum of 4 years in the
league. So howzabout making it 30 with a minimum of 5 or 6 years in the
league????? Get on with it!

The Crazy Met

    I suppose almost anything can be negotiated, but how does the NHL get
    away with implementing a rule where free-agent eligibility is based 
    on age (as opposed to service time)?  I would think that any player
    who feels that he has been unfairly slighted (like that great player
    who hits the NHL at age 18 or 19) by an illegal rule, could challenge
    this rule on constitutional grounds.  Some rights cannot be bargained
    away.  Mandatory retirement rules and such have been stricken.
    
    Personally I think that as opposed to MLB players the hockey players 
    are getting worked over big by some ridiculous, regressive demands...  
                                                                 
    glenn
    

    	Please, please shut the season down!  That way I get my money
    back from Harry (hopefully by Easter since we just got the check
    for the first 11 games cancelled finally last week).  Come on NHL,
    you can do it!
    
    				   /Don

    
    	re .17,
    
    		That's why there hasn't been an agreement yet. The
    owners think it is there right to draft someone at 18. Then retain
    there NHL playing rights until the age of 32. Then during
    those 14 years have the right to limit the players salary.
    
    Ron

Free agency by age can be part of a CBA; it is illegal if it is not part of
a CBA. Mandatory retirement in certain situations which are covered by a CBA
is legal.

The Crazy Met

    It's after 12. Did they nuke the season or did the 40-50 brain cells in 
    the negotiating room come to an agreement?
    
    Mike 

    See 11.1003.

    
    Well the season is under way and boy am I glad to have hockey back.
    The players look great, it seems like they never skipped a beat, maybe 
    alittle,but non-the less the game is still fast and exciting just the
    way i like it.  WELCOME BACK AND GO LEAFS GO.
    
    LEAFS IN 95'.       
    
    				P.K.

Everybody's playing like shit, and they haven't missed a beat?

Pass me some of that back bacon -- the additives must be GREAT  8^)

    O.K. so the likes of Cam Neely and Mike Ridley, Jarmir Jagr , Doug
    Gilmour, Joe Sakic, Brett Hull, Ken Wregget, Ray Ferraro and many more,
     and let me guess your a Rangers Fan that jumped on the long awaited
    BAND WAGON and your just disappointed that there in the dumps, well I 
    think they're not doing to bad considering the time off and how outta 
    shape they are just sit tight and enjoy the excitement of this fast 
    pace CANADIAN game of hockey.
    
    						cheers, P.K.
    

Yeah, I'm glad to have hockey back, too, but it'll take the boys a while
to get up to speed.

I've seen the Rangers' first two games (loss to Buf, win vs. Mtl--tonight
we see the loss to Boston--still awaiting the next videotape), and it
looked like exhibition hockey.

But I'm not complaining.

Steve

>    O.K. so the likes of Cam Neely and Mike Ridley, Jarmir Jagr , Doug
>    Gilmour, Joe Sakic, Brett Hull, Ken Wregget, Ray Ferraro and many more,
>     and let me guess your a Rangers Fan that jumped on the long awaited
>    BAND WAGON and your just disappointed that there in the dumps, well I 
>    think they're not doing to bad considering the time off and how outta 
>    shape they are just sit tight and enjoy the excitement of this fast 
>    pace CANADIAN game of hockey.
    
Stop thumpin' yer chest with yer Maple Leaf....8^)

I've a hockey fan for 30 years...Boston Bruins.  I don't give two hoots (eh)
aboot the Rangers....


Seriously, in the hockey I've seen so far, the players have been half a beat
behind, not really synced up.  It's getting better, from what I saw this
weekend.....

I do enjoy hockey.  I missed it, but I'm not ready to say that it's at its
best right now....


'Saw

    

    Well I agree with you about them being a half step behind but I'm just 
    being optimistic, and I guess I'm just excited about hockey being back
    period.  I hope no offense was taken about the Rangers thing, (just the
    back bacon thing....)  But I won't stop thumpin' my chest with the
    ever amazing MAPLE LEAF, I've been with the leafs through the good and
    I'm sure you remember the very bad times, well I'm excited to see them
    looking good again.  We have a real solid team this year with the
    addition of Ridley and Sundin, but Quebec is really happy about Clark's
    performance They will be tough this year,it's good to see them doing
    good again.  By the way OTTAWA got there first win of the year tonight  
    2-0 over philly, way to go SENS.  Oh ya TORONTO beat San Jose 7-3 also,
    just thought I'd mention that aswell.  I'm also glad to see Cam doing
    well again, I just  hope he can stay healthy it's a shame a player with
    his talent, having to go through all them down falls, and he never
    seems to quit he is a true bread (CANADIAN) hockey player that never
    wants to quit, keep on ticking Cam.
    
    
    					cheers, P.K.

Just kiddin' you on the back bacon thang -- I have lots of Canadian friends
and it's kind of a joke between us all.

Anyway, I'm bummed that Toronto lost Clark -- he's a force I'd rather not
have in the Bruins division 8^).

Glad to see however, that the Maple Leafs beat the Sharks.  I want Calgary
to win that division, even though they got rid of Mike Vernon.....


'Saw

    I kinda' figured you were joking around, so was I.  what are your
    predictions for 95'.  How about the amazing ROOKIE, Lacher, the Bruins
    really scored one there. I'm glad to see the Bruins crushed the HABS,
    and boy do I detest the HABS.  It something about being to defensive or
    something that really erks me about the HABS.  I like exciting players,
    like Cam, Dougie,The Cat,Bourque, ya know where I'm coming from EH!.
    How is the new Gaaaaadens coming along?  Are the people happy with the
    change?  I'll be visiting BOSTON in april for the DIGITAL hockey
    tourney in April, then I'll be back but I'll be in Salem on training
    for the ALPHA products mainly the 400 and 200 ALPHA's, that will be
    sometime in late may early june so maybe I can catch a BRUINS game.
    The SENS are palying tonite and I hope the beat the HABS, they seem to
    have good luck against them, so you never know.  
    
    
    My 95' predictions are:
    1- THE LEAFS
    2- The Nords (maybe) or
    3- The Pens (unfortunately)
    
    CHEERS, P.K.
    

I hate the Habs too.

Bill Berilko -- there's a blast from the past......


This season is weird.  Too short 8^)

    
    Well that was a rough one last week, just after you mention about being
    upset over Clark going to Quebec, the Nords beat the Bruins!!  Now I 
    see why your not to happy about him being in the same division.  Oh,
    well such is the life in hockey.  The Sens are having a rough start,
    what's up with Yashin and Bonk.  Beaupre is playing well and if it
    wasn't for him the scores would have been way worse than they were.
    Atleast my LEAFS are doing well.  I'm happy with the Fuhr trade, now we
    can almost call the L.A. KINGS the L.A. OILERS of the 80's.  Lets, see 
    just how well they do.  I'm a KINGS and LEAF fan.  Your right the
    season is real weird too late to make any predictions.
    
    cheers, P.K.   8^)