Conference hbahba::cam_sports

NCAA placed Winston-Salem State on Three-Years probation for allowing
ineligible athletes to participate in several sports and for
providing extra benifits to football players.


Mississippi suspended basketball forwards James Bailey and Stephan
Davis for the remainder of the season.

Samford named Chan Gailey football coach.

Mars Hill named Tim Clifton football coach.

The NCAA convention is going on this week.

One of the big issies is 'gender equality' in college athletics.  
Football is in the front of this issue.   Div 1-A schools get 88
football scholarships each - and with no equivalent sport in 
woman's athletics, there is a 'tilt' towards men's athletics.

Also, some 48 year-old woman named Bonnie Frankel wants to be able
to compete for her college's runnign and swimming teams.  She wants
woman to be able to be compete even after lengthy stays away from school.

(FWIW, I'm totally against that provision...)

Other proposals to be voted on include:

Certification:  Require schools to conduct intensive self-reviews of 
athletic depts. every 5 years, in the areas of rules compliance, 
academic and fiscal integrity, and gender equality.

Relaxation of Prop 48:  Award an additional year of competition for
Prop 48 athletes, who are now limited to three years, but only if they
make progress towards degrees.

Enforcement Reforms:  Adding two non-NCAA, non-athletically affiliated
members to the NCAA's committee on infractions.

More Flexibility in Determining Athletes' eligibility:  (see above)

Liberalized Playing and Practice Seasons:  Allow Division 1 hoops to
move start of playing season frm Dec. 1 to Friday after Thanksgiving.
Expand Division 1 baseball season from 22 to 24 weeks, and eliminating
restrictions on contact during Spring Football practices.

Delay in Scholarship Cuts:  Holding off, from 1993 to 1995, an
already approved reductions in the allotment of mens' hoops 
scholarships from 14 to 13 per Division 1 school.  Also, in a move
towards gender equality, keep the number of scholarships for Div.
1 woman's hoops teams at 15, instead of cutting to 14.

Relaxed Money Restrictions:  ALlowing athletes to collect wages from
on-campus non-athletically related jobs without it counting against
their scholarships.

Summer Camp Crackdown:  Among other restrictions, require certification
of summer hoops camps and prohibiting free transportation and other
'free inducements' for players, relatives or coaches.

Also, the NCAA's Special Events committee is likely to stick with
its minimum requirement for bowl teams - six wins against Div 1-A
opponents, despite a southern conference request to appeat it.

JD

�Also, some 48 year-old woman named Bonnie Frankel wants to be able
�to compete for her college's runnign and swimming teams.  She wants
�woman to be able to be compete even after lengthy stays away from school.

�(FWIW, I'm totally against that provision...)

Maybe I'm missing something here.  If she is a student, has the ability, 
and the eligibility, why isn't she allowed to compete?   I remember when I
was in college, I knew a guy who was 38 years old who made the baseball team.

=Bob=

    re: Bob
    
    Not sure if this is the issue in this case, but the way eligibility has
    always worked is that once you enroll in college the "eligibility
    clock" starts ticking.  You've got five (5) years from that point
    forward to complete four (4) years of eligibility.
    
    The interpretation of this is that if you enroll in college at some
    point and then fail to graduate (drop out, etc.), then return to school
    "X" number of years later, .... wail, sorry Charlie.  
    
    I'd guess the 38-year-old you knew had never been to college before,
    while this woman Bonnie had been.  (Even if she'd never participated in
    sports.)
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Bob -

Basically, you get five years of elgibility, and you have to use
it in a certain time-frame.  She went to school 31 years ago for
a while, and is now going back.

The rule is in place to disallow folks from competing professionally,
and then going to school.

For instance, in hoops, Moses Malone, Darryl Dawkins, for example, 
could have played NBA hoops, and then enrolled in college and competed
on their college teams (using the Frankel rule).

It would, IMO, have more of an affect on sports such as hockey, track
and field, swimming, etc...

And, the other point is, from what I have read, she wants this just
for woman, and not men, so that seems to be a tad discriminating.

JD

=Bob=

Also, regarding the 38 year old.  There has been, in the past, attempts
to pass age restrictions.  These battles were led be track and
field coaches to combat schools that were loading up on foreigners.
Many schools, for example, loaded up on distance runners from
Africa who were 25-28 years old - and competing against U.S.
runners 17-22.   Don't know if anything ever came of it, though.

JD

I get it.

No, the baseball player had never been to college before.  I guess I assumed 
that Bonnie Frankel hadn't either.

                                                         
    Basically the woman, who I'm sure just wants to compete, has been
    victimized by rules that were designed to prevent abuses and cheating
    in other programs which are rife with that kind of activity (quite
    frankly, mainly men's sports programs).  An individual case such as
    hers shows the stupidity of such broad-brush NCAA regulations, and I
    don't think it has a thing to do with gender equality or fairness.
    
    glenn
     

In all honesty if Moses enrolled in TCU and wanted to play college basketball, 
I think he should be eligible. The team would be better not great. TCU would 
attract additional revenue to hopefully use to improve the educational 
equipment at TCU. Maybe Moses could get a communications degree and talk with
O.J. Simpson about how to land big paying jobs with ESPN/NBC/CBS/ABC. 

Now maybe a individual sport i.e. Tennis or Golf this wouldn't be as fair but in 
team sports this shouldn't be a issue. Provided Prop 48 still exists. You would 
be pretty sure that Moses would not be accepting payment for playing hoops. 

Jeff

Glenn -

But when do you enforce the rule, and when not?   IMO, its tough that
this poor woman didn't stay in college 30 years ago.  She may not
be something special athletically (although she does say she has
1996 Olympic aspirations -ha!).

But what if a Lynn Jennings wants to go back.  Does she get to compete?

I just don't see 30, 40 or 50 year olds competing at the collegiate
level.  

In this woman's case, she has plenty of other options, especially
where she is (California) to compete as a runner.

JD

> But when do you enforce the rule, and when not?   IMO, its tough that
> this poor woman didn't stay in college 30 years ago.  She may not
> be something special athletically (although she does say she has
> 1996 Olympic aspirations -ha!).
    
    You just don't make rules that penalize the great majority of students
    in order to keep sleazy football and basketball programs in line.  It's
    that simple.  Go after the problem where it exists.  Many of these NCAA
    regulations come dangerously close to violating constitutional rights.
    I can see in particular where women's programs see the hypocrisy,
    because first they're told that Title IX isn't rigorously enforced on a
    dollar-for-dollar or scholarship-for-scholarship basis because the true
    amateur women's programs don't bring in the money, then they're forced 
    to play by the same silly rules that are in place precisely because of
    the corrupting influence of the big money in the men's sports.
    
> In this woman's case, she has plenty of other options, especially
> where she is (California) to compete as a runner.
    
    That's ludicrous.  The same could be said of your collegiate athletic
    career, or anyone else's.  Does the woman have the opportunity to
    offset the cost of her education with a scholarship?
    
    glenn
     

    
    re: last couple
    
    	There are rules in Div. I that limit the age and time an athlete
    can compete.  I believe in Div. I, once you start school, you have
    5 years to complete your eligibility.  I also believe there is an 
    age cutoff, meaning if you never attended, you could not attend say
    at the age of 35, and play for that school.
    
    	Now, I don't think the Div. II rules are the same because a couple
    of years ago, a Div. II school came to the Div II finals here in 
    Springfield and they had a player or two that were in their mid-late
    twenties (25-27??).  I believe the team was Gannon (sp) College 
    which is in Pa.  I distinctly remember them saying that one of their
    players was to 'old' to participate in Div. I atletics.
    
    	
    
    bill..g.
    

Glenn -

But what rules should be enforced?   DO they all have the caveat:

"Unless you are a male football or basketball player?"

Personally, I think some age limit should be placed, or abuses will
happen (i.e. African distance runners...)

This woman is 48 years old.   Its really sad (sniff) that she missed
out on competing when she was younger (of course, from what I read, she
wasn't an athlete then...)  

And, IMO, looking at from a developmental stage, I'd hate to see 48
year olds take roster spots from 17-20 year olds - because a 48 year
old is past developmental stage.

JD

�And, IMO, looking at from a developmental stage, I'd hate to see 48
�year olds take roster spots from 17-20 year olds - because a 48 year
�old is past developmental stage.
    
    So has college T&F become a minor league for the pros as well now? 
    
    Are there performance related cutoff points for making the team?  Is
    potential a criteria?
    
    I agree with Glenn, if a person can make the cut, why should it matter
    how old they are?  These are student atheletes after all.

Mac -

Yep, there are performance metric to making squads - just as in any
other sports.   Colleges don't spend much on sports outside of the
biggies like football and basketball, so they can't have unlimited
squads.   Folks got cut from cross country and track at NU, some 
lost their scholarships, walk-ons made the team (like me).

We had a 28 year old guy who couldn't compete due to the eligibility
rules, but he still ran practice with us (hey, the roads aren't school
property) and simply competed by choosing among the myriad of open
track meets, road races, etc., that were available.   

The cynic in me smells someone out to make money by getting involved
in a story that begs for a TV-movie, complete with hokey ending.

JD

    
    
    	I need a little help... I know the men's final four is in
    New Orleans, but where is the women's final four being held this
    year?
    
    
    
    Steve

    Omni in Hotlanta.  Georgia Tech is the host school.
    
    Schnort schlep schlops!
    
    I remain,
    nearby with my basketaball rags!
    Kev
    

    Malone shouldn't be able to compete. He's a professional.  If Malone
    wanted to play baseball, IMHO, he should be allowed to.

    Becker College in Leicester, MA once again took the Field Hockey
    national champeenship.

    According to a recently released report, College Atheletics on the
    whole lose money for the Universities.  There are only about 100
    programs in the country that make money and they aren't making as much
    as you'd think.

    re: .-1
    
    > College Atheletics [sic] on the whole lose money for the
    Universities.
    
    And you're *surprised* by this?!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    What's the sic for?
    
    Yeah, I'm surprised.  I see the money being charged to attend games.  I
    see the alumni forking over big bucks to fund atheletics.  I see the TV
    contracts.  I see the millions the bowls pay.  I see the increase in
    applications to schools who do well in the National scene (BC saw a
    huge increase in applications during/after the Flutie years).

    > What's the sic for?
    
    "Atheletics" [sic] looks okay to U?  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    There was a meeting of the I-A folks the other day to discuss pairing
    down the division to around 80 teams from the current 106.  Notably
    absent from the meeting were reps. from the Mid-America and (I forget
    -- the conference winner played the Mid-America champ the other night
    in Las Vegas).