Conference hbahba::cam_sports

    
       I'm a baseball umpire and I almost had a situation I wouldn't have
    known what to do. Here is the situation:
    
       Runners on 1st and 2nd 
       1 out
       Hard ground ball to shortstop
       Runner on 2nd runs into shortstop
       shortstop forces runner going to 2nd
       I rule interference so batter is out also because a D.P. would
       have been made. Batter/runner was slow runner.
    
       Here is my question:
    
       If there was 0 outs, could I have ruled a triple play because the
    S.S. did force runner going to 2nd and interference makes the
    batter/runner out. Is the runner going from 2nd to 3rd out for running
    into the S.S. ?
    
      Jim

>       I'm a baseball umpire and I almost had a situation I wouldn't have
>    known what to do. Here is the situation:
>    
>       Runners on 1st and 2nd 
>       1 out
>       Hard ground ball to shortstop
>       Runner on 2nd runs into shortstop
>       shortstop forces runner going to 2nd
>       I rule interference so batter is out also because a D.P. would
>       have been made. Batter/runner was slow runner.
>    
>       Here is my question:
>    
>       If there was 0 outs, could I have ruled a triple play because the
>    S.S. did force runner going to 2nd and interference makes the
>    batter/runner out. Is the runner going from 2nd to 3rd out for running
>    into the S.S. ?
    

I honestly don't remember the rule, but something in my haid tells me
that the runner is entitled to the basepath BEFORE the fielder is
entitled to make the catch.

I remember playing softball and routinely running over fielders who
were in the basepath -- but I don't know if they were in the act
of making a play.

That's the crucial point of the matter, I think, is who's entitled....


'Saw

    What's the difference between what happened and what happens when a
    runner takes a SS/2b out at the bag on an attempted dp?

	If the SS had the ball when the runner from 2b ran into him. He
is essentially tagged out. Then the force at 2b is another out for the
double play. The batter is not out unless the relay throw beats him to 1b.

	If the SS was run over before having the ball. The runner from 2b
would be out if he went out of the base path. If he was in the base path
then the SS is out of the luck. Interference shouldn't be called on the
runner from 2b. The only out is the force out at 2b. The batter can not
be called out because you can not assume a DP would have occured.

/Ron

	re: .1

	runner advancing from 2nd, "tagged out" by ss, runner from 1st is 
	forced out at 2nd and batter is safe.

	Interference with the play is only if runner runs into fielder before
	he fields the ball.


	hth

	billl

    re .4
    
       If the runner "runs" into the fielder after he fields the ball, you
    can not assume the fielder tagged out the runner. Case in point. The
    runner runs behind the fielder and bumps into the fielder. The fielder
    doesn't tag the runner, so the runner isn't out because of the tag.

    From a friend of mine, who's an ump in the DMSL...
    Walt,
    
      sticky situation - did the runner run into the short stop
    deliberately or was he trying to avoid being physically hit
    by the ball? the possibility is there for a double play
    by the umpires judgement...
    
       for instance -  hard the ball been hit hard enough so that
    the shortstop in the umpires opinion could have made a play
    ( double play ) unassisted, no throw to the second baseman,
    then "I" would have called a triple play.  usually the
    call goes like this, since the runner i am assuming
    it a fielder while making a play on the ball then
    the batter-runner is out and so is the runner who interfered...
    
    
    i will look it up and ask around myself, i think the ump can
    put the batter on first and call the runner closest to home
    out instead....
    

and if you call the triple play, you hope Dan S. is on the batting team 
so you can watch him go balistic with rules in the ump's face......

;^)

    Hey guys ready for this one? The ump blew it and I benefitted.
    
    My team is on the field. The opposing team loads the bases with no
    outs. 
    
    The next batter lofts a looper towards my second baseman. "Infield Fly
    - Batter's OUT!" yells the home plate umpire.
    
    The ball drops (was never touched) and the runners all advanced. I
    yelled to my players to tag second and first to double up the runners. 
    
    The umps called the runners out and my team comes off the field. The
    other team is stunned and they should be.
    
    On an infield fly runners DO NOT have to retouch the bags unless the
    ball is caught.
    
    Justice prevailed....we lost the game.
    
    Maj

    I've been coaching Babe Ruth Baseball for the last 12 years and last
    night the opposing coach protested the game when I had brought back a
    pitcher who I had previously removed from the mound. Let me point out
    all the important details:
    
     o Pitcher "John" was struggling during inning 6. On my FIRST trip to
       the mound I switched him with my second baseman who can throw 
       strikes.
    
     o After several batters the "meat" of ther order was coming up and I
       decided to bring "John" back to pitch.
    
     o Two important points have to be made here:
    
           1 - "John" was removed from the mound on the FIRST trip.
           2 - He never left the game.
    
    Babe Ruth rules over the years have allowed coaches to do this (and I
    believe Major League Rules allow this).
    
    The opposing coach said "No!" and protested. We lost anyway BUT I'd
    like to know if anyone has seen any change in this rule.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mike

	Mike,

	In Legion ball we use Major League rules, with very few exceptions.
	What you discribed is an acceptable move that we've used.  I can't
	see why Babe Ruth rules would not allow something that is allowed
	at every other level of baseball.


	hth,

	billl

>              <<< Note 26.11 by MKFSA::LONG "Send the cousin!" >>>


A FINE p-name there Billl.....

    I know Bill.
    
    ....you know this guy....Bernie M.
    
    
    Mike

Whitey Herzog used to pull that move with Ken Dayley and Todd Worrell.
He would move one to the OF, bring the other in to pitch to one batter.
Replace an OF and have the first pitcher pitch again.

The Crazy Met

	Had this happen to us in a game Monday night, but haven't had an
	opportunity to look it up....

	runner on third,  suicide squeeze is on,  catcher picked up the sign
	and called for a pitchout.

	batter, not wanting his teammate to get hung out to dry, reaches across
	the plate in an attempt to put a bat on the ball.  

	catcher receives pitched ball, much to the chagrin to the batter,
	and fires it down to third where the runner is easily picked off.

	home plate umpire, after calling the base runner out, turns and
	calls the batter out for interfering with the fielder(catcher).

	My thought on this is that if in fact the batter is quilty of 
	interference then the batter is out and the ball is dead leaving the
	runner safe.  

	anyone else want to give it a try?


	billl

good call by the ump.

similar thing happens on throwing a runner out at 2B if there is
interference.

The Crazy Met

                    
    >	catcher receives pitched ball, much to the chagrin to the batter,
    >	and fires it down to third where the runner is easily picked off.
    >
    >	home plate umpire, after calling the base runner out, turns and
    >	calls the batter out for interfering with the fielder(catcher).
    >
    >   My thought on this is that if in fact the batter is quilty of 
    >	interference then the batter is out and the ball is dead leaving the
    >	runner safe.  
    >
    >	anyone else want to give it a try?
    
    Your interpretation would normally be correct if no play on the runner
    were possible (i.e. the catcher was successfully blocked, or he threw
    the ball away, or the runner returned safely).  However, since the 
    catcher was able to make the play successfully in spite of the
    interference, you don't want to penalize the defense.  In this case the 
    rules call for the umpire to remove the interference completely, and 
    the batter is not out.  It's an either/or, not both and a double play 
    as the umpire mistakenly allowed above.  
    
    glenn
    

	re last two:

	I tend to agree with Glenn rather than TCM.  I feel pretty confident
	that Mr Blew(sic) muffed this call along with several others that night.

	He also refused to allow our pitcher an exchange of baseballs when
	he requested it.  This guy was a real "homer" and did everything
	possible to make sure the other team(which his son played on a few
	years ago) won the game.  The strike zone shrunk down soooo small
	in the bottom of the ninth that the ball couldn't fit in it at all.

	I know this sounds like sour grapes, but from talking with some of
	the fans of the other team after the game, they couldn't believe 
	how blatant this guy was.


	billl

    Although I don't have the actual rule book in my hand in this case the
    runner is out but batter stays.
    
    With less than two out and interference with catcher it is runner who
    is called out.  This is in major league rule book (section 7.08g).
    
    With two out it is batter who is out.
    
    One thing to beware of on a steal of home is if pitcher removes foot
    from rubber.  In that case batter cannot attempt to swing at ball and
    must not even stand in catcher's way as pitcher is now an infielder and
    any construed as interference (batter now has no rights) will result in
    runner being out.
    
    Note also that in actual play, batter did not make contact with ball
    therefore did not leave batter's box (is not out for same).  And, any
    part of foot in that monstrous box equals entire foot inside batter's
    box.

    
    >	I know this sounds like sour grapes, but from talking with some of
    >	the fans of the other team after the game, they couldn't believe 
    >	how blatant this guy was.
    
    When you've got a supposed registered umpire dead to rights on a
    clear-cut rules question it doesn't sound like sour grapes at all.  I
    think you coaches should be carrying a rulebook and prepared to use it. 
    Seriously.  I might not do it in Little League, but American Legion is
    pretty serious baseball, and I can think of very few things in baseball
    more pleasurable than marching out to homeplate with rulebook in hand
    and showing up an incompetent and possibly biased umpire (no offense, 
    honest and upright umpires).
    
    glenn
     

    Anyone notice that Ed T. Rush was the lead official for both the
    Hawks-Heat brawl and last year's Suns-Knicks brawl?