Conference foundr::firearms

    Subject: Deer Loads
    
    -165gr Nosler Balistic (no canaluer)
    -Crimped
    -55gr IMR 4350
    
    Range results: very poor
    
    The Speer manual says NEVER crimp without canaluer.
    My loading partner insists it's OK to crimp.
    
    Any comments? 

    Hi,
    
    	I never crimp.  I don't see why I should.
    
    	I've used this load out of my Rem 700, 30-06 and I wasn't happy
    with it either.  I couln't get any groups significantly better than the
    better factory loads I have used.  Next time I'm going to try 3031
    (IMR?).
    
    	If you crimp with no canalure, the brass case mouth has no where to
    go or anything to grasp on to.  
    
    	Fifty five grains is kinda hot for a thirty cal.  What are ya
    shootin?
    
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -X

    Also shooting Rem 700.  Minimum load for the 165gr bullet is 54gr per the
    Speer manual; we chronographed this load at 2540fps.
    
    I need to be diplomatic with my partner, but I think the crimp was a
    very bad idea.  I had great accuracy with 150gr Remington factory, some
    J&S (or something like that bought at a recent gun Mass show) and some
    canaluer/crimped 150gr reloads.
    
    I'm getting ready for an Anticosti trip and am looking for the best
    possible accuracy...Remington factory may be what I bring.
    
    Thanks for the response,
    
    George

    The crimping of a load, as long as it is uniform, by itself is not 
    likely your biggest problem.

    The only time a crimp is necessary is for semi-auto or for tubular
    magazine such ast he 30-30.  This is to make sure bullets don't change
    seating during firing.   I got some sabots that also instruct to crimp
    the case to insure uniformity.

    You can well see significant differences in performance depending on
    the load and the rifle.  Even two rifles of the same make and model.
    No two barrels are alike.  A load that works good in one rifle will
    almost certainly not work as good in another.  Even differences in 
    brands of factory loads can/will make a difference in how a given 
    rifle shoots.  A 30-30 I've been working with likes Federals _much_
    better than anything else.

    Assuming no other defects in the the barrel (worn rifling, nicks in the 
    crown, bedding problems, etc), most of the inaccuracy in a rifle is the 
    vibration of the barrel as the bullet passes through and being able to 
    control or predict that vibration.  Part if that control is in the
    bedding.  Part of it is that variations in the speed with which a
    bullet travels down a barrel can change the "harmonics" of the barrel
    and cause it to vibrate differently.  Another way to change the
    harmonics is to change the length  of the barrel as with the "boss"
    system.

    Number one is to make the loads uniform. Same amount of powder, seating 
    depth, primers, bullet weight, bullet shape, etc.  Primarily so that 
    barrel will be at the same point in it's vibration as the bullet leaves 
    the barrel.  

    On barrels without a "boss", different amounts of powder and different 
    burn rates of powders are the final option.  Primarily to find a bullet 
    speed that is compatible with the harmonics of the barrel of a given 
    rifle.  Thus the primary purpose of "working up" a load (starting at a 
    given point and working up in increments) is to find an accurate load 
    rather than to find a "max" load.
    
    fred();

Ahhh Gi'day...

    Crimping without a cannelure is NOT a good idea. It deforms the bullet,
    and makes a mess of the jacket. I cannot think of a reason to crimp,
    I've used thousands of rounds through semi's, and as long as the neck
    resizing is done correctly, the bullet isn't seated out too far, and
    there isn't a mass of lubricant in the neck, there should be more than
    enough pressure to retain the bullet in the neck (brass is like a very
    stiff elastic band, remember). Under some circumstances in a semi,
    maybe, never in a bolt. And absolutely never without the cannelure.
    
    Off the top of my head, I would try 4064 for this weight of bullet in a
    30'06 (after you try 4350 without the crimp).

Ahhh Gi'day...

    Well, I looked it up. You should be fine with IMR4350 or 4064. It must
    have been 4320 that I was confused into thinking wasn't such a great
    powder in 30'06.
    
    I would still scotch the crimping, though...