| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 131.1 | | HIPS::WATSON | Eenie meenie minee moe...That one! | Wed Feb 05 1997 08:05 | 4 |
| Re 177.*
Cartoonist Scott Adams, creator of the "Dilbert" comic strip, has a
cameo appearance in this episode.
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| 131.2 | | NAC::BULEAN::BANKS | Goose Cooker | Tue May 20 1997 16:19 | 31 |
| Spoilers
While I understood why Delenn did what she did, it seems to just move
the source of her problems from one caste to the other.
Riveting episode, otherwise.
Kinda liked Dilbert, looking for Dogbert and Catbert.
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| 131.3 | | TROOA::TEMPLETON | Unhappy gardener | Wed May 21 1997 20:29 | 15 |
| Spoilers
I think she has the right in her mind but will it work?
joan
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| 131.4 | things are starting to pick up... | QUARRY::petert | rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty | Tue May 27 1997 19:48 | 98 |
| Spoilers
ahead
and
you
don't
really
want
to
spoil
this
one
Ah, the pace is picking up again! JMS has commented that things only
get more intense till the end of the season. Sounds like it might
be a wee bit exciting....
The first time this played, I was so tired I started falling asleep
during Delenn's speeches. They were a bit better the second time around...
Nice way to gain power, but kind of tough on the leader. Seeing as how
Neroon and the other one, Shikara? seemed both to show the aspect of
pain inside the Starfire Wheel, I wonder if Delenn's previous torture
at the hand of the Inguisitor helped prepare her for this one.
Will you follow me into Fire? indeed.
Bester was at his full slimy self here. Delightfully so. I wonder if
he really scanned Garibaldi, or just gave Lyta the impression that
he had done so. His reply to Michael, "I don't know what you're talking
about" echoed Garibaldi's own reply to Zack when Zack asked him about the
package. And Bester's treatment of Lyta was pretty disgusting.
Sigh...back to the gloves and the emblem. Hmmm, I wonder if Sheridan
will have anything to say when he finds out. And would he be as
interested in the body as Bester is?
And should we take an special notice of the friendliness between Zack
and Lyta? Seems to have gone a little beyond the pizza stage?
Moving to more "intimate" quarters?
So now we have a good idea of who did what to Mr. Garibaldi, though we still
don't know exactly "WHAT" was done. And it still seems to leave open
the question of how exactly did Psi Corp get hold of him after the
Shadows picked him up.
Dogbert and Catbert are out to take over the Galaxy! Now that might be
a real problem!
Sheridan's reaction to the video that Ivanova showed him seemed a
bit, shall I say, messianic? to me. I'd defect now if I had too.
Next week? Taking the war to earth? Well, Proxima 3, I guess...
PeterT
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| 131.5 | spoiler space and thoughts... | SUBSYS::MSOUCY | MentalmETALMike | Wed May 28 1997 14:29 | 38 |
|
Hmm, I was not totally surprised at what Neroon did, considering what
happened when Delenn became "The One" to lead the rangers. It did
suprise me, but didn't catch me totally off guard.
Garibaldi.....I am wondering whether Bester *did* have anything to do
with his predicament still....it does seem quite plausible.
Lyta, I'd like to get to know her too! As long as she keeps the gills
closed that is! When I saw that I said "Whoa! What happened here!". She
got cornered in this one by Bester, should have known he would pull
something like this! I am surprised Sheridan isn't aware of what is
transpiring here.
Zack, hmm, he's sort of pursuing it it seems, but Lyta hasn't been seen
in a few episodes no?
Sheridan I thought was a bit overboard after seeing the tape and flying
off in a rage like that so quickly...a bit overboard to say the least.
Ivanova seemed over-the-top here also in this short spot.
Guess I'll either be up real late saturday or tape it so I can watch it
on sunday. Overall it was pretty good though! I wish I'd seen the past
3 previous to this one! I saw the one with Capn Jack (taped) but missed
the next 2-3 and caught this one. Lucky for the notes file! ;-)
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| 131.6 | | NAC::BULEAN::BANKS | Goose Cooker | Wed May 28 1997 14:42 | 32 |
|
I think Sheridan's reactions are a feature of this part of the arc.
With all his recent successes, Sheridan's feeling pretty full of
himself. Even though Garibaldi's strings are being pulled elsewhere,
much of what he says has more than a tinge of truth to it. This all
looks like it's leading up to a seriously humbling experience for
Sheridan.
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| 131.7 | | RUSURE::GENTRY | Enjoying the view from open windows | Wed May 28 1997 19:29 | 39 |
| Thar be spoilers below
>Neroon and the other one, Shikara? seemed both to show the aspect of
Shakiri, I think...
>Bester was at his full slimy self here. Delightfully so. I wonder if
>he really scanned Garibaldi, or just gave Lyta the impression that
>he had done so. His reply to Michael, "I don't know what you're talking
I think he really did... with Lyta's enhanced abilities, I'm sure he
counted on her reporting it to Garibaldi.
>And should we take an special notice of the friendliness between Zack
>and Lyta? Seems to have gone a little beyond the pizza stage?
>Moving to more "intimate" quarters?
I think Zack's comment of the quarters being more 'intimate' was his
attempt at a euphimism for them being really small, which is what
Lyta then said...
>So now we have a good idea of who did what to Mr. Garibaldi, though we still
>don't know exactly "WHAT" was done. And it still seems to leave open
>the question of how exactly did Psi Corp get hold of him after the
>Shadows picked him up.
Bester's log has him mentioning that what he did has Garibaldi going
further "along the path I need him to travel" (or something equivalent)
which indicates he knows what's been done, and in fact may be behind it.
Not to mention that regardless of Mr. Edgars (?) assurance that he doesn't
like Tepes, I think he is actually a front for Psi-Corps (or maybe bureau
13?) Since it was mentioned earlier in the episode that no-one has seen
him... This would account for how quickly he got the news (from Bester?)
about Garibaldi hiring Lyta...
Megan
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| 131.8 | | RUSURE::GENTRY | Enjoying the view from open windows | Wed May 28 1997 19:35 | 26 |
| Spoiler space
> Hmm, I was not totally surprised at what Neroon did, considering what
> happened when Delenn became "The One" to lead the rangers. It did
> suprise me, but didn't catch me totally off guard.
Also makes me think... Valen was the "one who was", and he formed the
grey council. Delenn is the "one who is", and she has just RE-formed
the grey council. Sheridan is the "one who will be"... this, plus the
extra circle for "the one who will come" -- Will Sheridan have some
affect on the Grey council, or in fact even join it? Maybe as a bridge
between Earth and Minbar (since we're already sharing souls)
> Sheridan I thought was a bit overboard after seeing the tape and flying
> off in a rage like that so quickly...a bit overboard to say the least.
> Ivanova seemed over-the-top here also in this short spot.
I'm wondering just how real the clip was... sure was kind of short. What
if *it* is a plant... or worse, what if it is real, but all designed to
elicit the sort of response in Sheridan which has occurred? Maybe someone
is attempting to manipulate Sheridan into attacking now...
Megan
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| 131.9 | take it for what it's worth... | SMURF::PETERT | rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty | Wed May 28 1997 20:00 | 44 |
| More
spoilers
below
okay,...
As far as the speculation that Edgars(?), you know, Lise's husband,
got the info from Bester about Garibaldi hiring Lyta, JMS has
responded to that same query. Bester and Edgars do not have any
contact (at least not that jms is revealing). Don't forget that
Wade is Garibaldi's contact with Edgars, (actually, come to think
of it, that has never really been explicitly stated in the show that
I know of, but jms was answering it this way) and that Wade was the
more likely source of Garibaldi's, uh, subcontracting.
PeterT
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| 131.10 | | OUTPOS::EKLOF | Waltzing with Bears | Wed May 28 1997 21:30 | 37 |
| s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
p
a
c
e
Re: .9
> Wade is Garibaldi's contact with Edgars, (actually, come to think
> of it, that has never really been explicitly stated in the show that
> I know of, but jms was answering it this way) and that Wade was the
> more likely source of Garibaldi's, uh, subcontracting.
This is, however, at odds with Bester's log entry. He certainly makes
it sound like he was responsible for Edgars getting Garibaldi to dump Lyta.
The implication of that entry was that Bester knew (and shared responsibility
for) "whatever happened to Mr. Garibaldi," as well as having strong influence in
directing Edgars.
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| 131.11 | Yup, Spoilers | UNIFIX::DIBBLE | RECYCLE - do it now, or pay later! | Wed May 28 1997 22:53 | 36 |
|
ACME SPOILER SPACE:
WHEN YOU NEED THE VERY BEST!
Vader is Luke's father.
(well what do you expect from ACME, something that works?)
---------------------
I'm wondering a few things.
1. Was Wade or one of his cronies around, and did Bester know that? So
Bester purposefully made Lyta, who looked like a "normal" (ie no
pin, no badge), say a line only a telepath would say. Thereby
causing the info to get back to Edgers by way of his own people.
They did make quite a scene.
2. I believe that my Dad-in-law thought that Sheridan might be made
president of the EA.
3. I'm guessing that the leader for Minbar will be "David". Who was
known to be "safe" in WWEII, if I remember correctly.
Ben
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| 131.12 | well, maybe, and maybe not... | SMURF::PETERT | rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty | Thu May 29 1997 05:39 | 60 |
| spoilers...
run away!!!!
Andromeda is heading straight for us!!!!
re: Bester's log indicates he's responsible for whatever happens
to Garibaldi, and implies the Lyta/Edgars/Garibaldi stuff...
I could see how it could be read that way, but that's just a
possible interpretation and there are others. Bester certainly
makes no mention of Edgars in his log, and may not be directly
aware that Edgars caused Garibaldi to 'unhire' Lyta. The closest
you can come to that is Bester's reference to a "banked shot"
causing Lyta to sign up again.
Here's jms's reply that I was refering to earlier:
[ Summary: "And Bester could have just tipped off ol' Edgars
annonomously." ]
#: 671886 S6/Babylon 5: Spoilers
25-May-97 14:47:03
Sb: #671721-#<MOMENTS OF TRANSITION>
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI
Bear in mind that Edgars also has Wade working for him right
there on the station, and he is more or less Garibaldi's liaison with
Edgars, so logically that would be his source of information.
jms
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| 131.13 | Disconnect | STRATA::RUDMAN | Always the Black Knight | Thu May 29 1997 22:44 | 32 |
| Spoiler spaces...the finite frontier...
Big disconnect here. Why didn't Lyta go to Sheridan about Bester's
recruiting attempt? (More importantly, why didn't jms see this?
*He's* the one who had Lyta make serious contributions during the
Shadow War.) If anything, Lyta has a few markers to pull in.
'Course, jms *could* pull a switch and reveal later on Sheridan
expected Bester to make a move for Lyta and had her let herself be
pulled into it. However, my theories are usually wrong...
Don
Don
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| 131.14 | | QUARRY::petert | rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty | Thu May 29 1997 23:12 | 57 |
| Spoilers...
Swing low
Sweet chariot...
coming for to carry
Ok, that should be enough. Why didn't Lyta go to Sheridan.
Hmm, think back to the last time we saw Bester. He wanted to go to Z'Ha'Dum,
and Lyta went along, and 'hypothetically' signalled the races there
that someone was coming for their tech. Which caused them to
evacuate and blow up the planet. Bester lost his tech, and they
nearly got blown up themselves. Sheridan let Lyta know in no
uncertain terms that if she ever pulled a stunt like that again, then
he would just hand her over to the PsiCorp. Frankly, I think she
is a bit intimidated by Sheridan. She's not really part of the
command structure, and the head of it has found fault in her
actions. I think its a choice between the devil and the deep
blue sea, and neither is very attractive.
Oh yeah, the 'hypothetical' up above means that it was never
officially acknowledged, but brought up as a hypothetical situation
when Sheridan was dressing down Lyta. And she basically admitted
to it... hypothetically.
PeterT
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| 131.15 | questions | SAPPHO::DUBOIS | Hailstorm Project Leader | Fri May 30 1997 18:28 | 38 |
| Spoiler space...
re: Delenn leaving the space open in the middle of the new Grey Council
for the One.
Didn't we hear that Valen is to return someday? His body was never found.
Perhaps Sinclair returns.
As for Bester, I'm still confused by that. Do you think that he knew that
Garibaldi was working for Edgars? If so, I can see where Bester could have
guessed that making people notice Garibaldi and Lyta talking could make Lyta
lose her job. However, if Bester didn't know that Garibaldi was working for
Edgars, then what benefit would it have been for Bester to have Lyta tell
Garibaldi that he had just been scanned?
And how is Ivanova going to react to Lyta's gloves and new "jewelry?" :-)
Carol
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| 131.16 | Hopefully an answer... re: -.1 | YIELD::MMURRAY | Rock climbing, Joel, Rock climbing. | Fri May 30 1997 19:02 | 88 |
|
Hi all,
My thoughts, after some spoiler space...
Here we go...
Almost there...
Is this enough?...
Sure enough...
>As for Bester, I'm still confused by that. Do you think that he knew that
>Garibaldi was working for Edgars? If so, I can see where Bester could have
>guessed that making people notice Garibaldi and Lyta talking could make Lyta
>lose her job. However, if Bester didn't know that Garibaldi was working for
>Edgars, then what benefit would it have been for Bester to have Lyta tell
>Garibaldi that he had just been scanned?
I think you all are mistaken. You can see over Bester's shoulder in
the scene that Garibaldi and Lyta are having a very animated
conversation, this is after Garibaldi has been contacted by Edgars
and he is informing Lyta that she can't work for him. Bester then
approaches and as he leaves scans Garibaldi which Lyta picks up.
I believe that Bester is actually using Garibaldi to get to Edgars and
a lot of things have been setup to get this to happen, that's the
reason for the scan to see where Garabaldi is. Garabaldi is becoming
a Psi Corp mole unbeknownst to him. Well, that's what I think anyway.
One thing is for certain, Bester is certainly an *******. Particularly
in his manipulation of Lyta. After this episode he is certainly in
the number one position for my top ten B5 characters I'd throw out
the nearest airlock.
Grins,
Mike.
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| 131.17 | | GEMGRP::WEISSMAN | | Fri May 30 1997 20:17 | 31 |
| Spoiler Space
>>I think you all are mistaken. You can see over Bester's shoulder in
>> the scene that Garibaldi and Lyta are having a very animated
>> conversation, this is after Garibaldi has been contacted by Edgars
>> and he is informing Lyta that she can't work for him. Bester then
>> approaches and as he leaves scans Garibaldi which Lyta picks up.
I think you're mixing up two different scenes. The scene in which Bester
scans Garibaldi is the one in which Lyta first approaches him for a job.
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| 131.18 | my observations on Bester/Garibaldi/Lyta | SUBSYS::MSOUCY | MentalmETALMike | Fri May 30 1997 20:38 | 36 |
|
spoiler space below
Should suffice I think....
re: .15
Delenn I thought mentioned that the space was left open for when Neroon
returns in a future life (soul-wise).
re: .16, .17
The setup for Garibaldi was between Lyta and Zack, no? She most
likely said that to turn Garibaldi from paying attention to her when
she did it so he wouldn't notice it and react like he most likely
would, instead she deflects that by pointing to Bester as the cause and
he goes after him because he believes Bester did scan him. I am not so
sure he didn't either way. Boy, Bester wants to get his hands on Lyta
to find out what was done to her by the Vorlons doesn't he?! Overall I
thought it was pretty good, except for Sheridan/Ivanova at the end.
I've missed the past few so can't follow if Ivanova has been building
this pressure even more so during those episodes. Have to wait and see
what happens over the next few episodes. What's up with Marcus and
Franklin? Still on Mars? I only saw the Cap'n Jack one, then missed a
few.....Have to read the other notes I guess! ;-)
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| 131.19 | | SMURF::PETERT | rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty | Fri May 30 1997 22:49 | 64 |
| Spoilers...
oops
Let's see... In no particular order. Franklin and Marcus have been
back for a while. There was one more episode on Mars after
Cap'n Jack blew himself up. Since then they've set up the
Voice of Resistance, which Ivanova mentions after showing
Sheridan the recording. Both Sheridan's and Ivanonva's reactions
were a bit over the top, but then you have to consider a real
reaction to an atrocious act during a semi-war like period.
Maybe it wasn't really that bad a reaction.
I kind of like the idea of Lyta using her 'interview' with
Garibladi to scan him for >ack's sake, and blaming it on Bester.
That's sneaky enough to be a possibility, but it doesn't quite
ring true.
There's no reason for Garibaldi to notice that he is being scanned
by either Bester or Lyta. Ivanova is unusual in that she is a
latent telepath who can detect she's being scanned. Garibaldi
may suspect, but he'd never know for certain, unless someone
like Lyta mentiioned it him.
Delenn said something along the lines of the empty space being
dedicated for Neroon, but I don't think she meant he would return
someday to claim it. And I kind of doubt the return of Valen
too. Yeah, supposedly we don't know what happened to his body,
but that doesn't mean he'll be available for a return. Let's
call that a VERY slim possibility. I think the one to come
will come, but I'm hedging my bets at the moment.
PeterT
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| 131.20 | | RUSURE::GENTRY | Enjoying the view from open windows | Mon Jun 02 1997 18:09 | 34 |
| generic spoiler space
batteries not included
> I kind of like the idea of Lyta using her 'interview' with
> Garibladi to scan him for >ack's sake, and blaming it on Bester.
> That's sneaky enough to be a possibility, but it doesn't quite
> ring true.
I like that idea... maybe she simply piggy-backed her scan of him
when she sensed bester doing it...
> Delenn said something along the lines of the empty space being
> dedicated for Neroon, but I don't think she meant he would return
> someday to claim it. And I kind of doubt the return of Valen
> too. Yeah, supposedly we don't know what happened to his body,
> but that doesn't mean he'll be available for a return. Let's
> call that a VERY slim possibility. I think the one to come
> will come, but I'm hedging my bets at the moment.
I think she said something like it being "..dedicated in honor of neroon,
for the one who will come." I don't think it will be Valen... JMS
originally said that he was dead and gone, then relented and said
that the body was never found... I can't see him reversing himself
entirely and having Valen simply popping up sometime in the future.
Sinclair/Valen - the one who was
Delenn - the one who is
Sheridan - the one who will be
S's/D's son (david?) - the one who will come?
Megan
(the one who is very confused)
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| 131.21 | | SAPPHO::DUBOIS | Hailstorm Project Leader | Mon Jun 02 1997 18:44 | 36 |
| spoiler below
< one who will come." I don't think it will be Valen... JMS
< originally said that he was dead and gone, then relented and said
< that the body was never found... I can't see him reversing himself
< entirely and having Valen simply popping up sometime in the future.
JMS says that he will occasionally lie if it would otherwise spoil a major
plot point (and he has done this before about whether Valen had children).
Besides, if the body wasn't found, but Valen never showed up again (after 10
years or more) then he'd be presumed dead, right? So if the body wasn't
found because he *left* to go "back to the future" (sorry) then that would
be perfectly logical.
Carol
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| 131.22 | | QUARRY::petert | rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty | Mon Jun 02 1997 19:43 | 62 |
| Spoilers...
don't have formfeed in this mode...
So I hits return a lot
> Besides, if the body wasn't found, but Valen never showed up again (after 10
> years or more) then he'd be presumed dead, right? So if the body wasn't
> found because he *left* to go "back to the future" (sorry) then that would
> be perfectly logical.
Remember that jms built in a "no return" mechanism. When B4 was jolted
a few years into the future (so that we'd see it in the B5 timeframe -
episode Babylon Squared) Sinclair was aged a few years forward (as
seen at the end of Babylon Squared, and War Without End, part 2.
Which is why he didn't want to tell Garibaldi about it in WWE pt1.
Since he (and Garibaldi) had already been
exposed to that time stream, they could only go backwards into the
past. Coming forward would have aged and killed him. The only feasible
way for Sinclair to show up again would be if he had been put in
suspended animation somewhere along the line.
Could be, but I think the only chance we'll get of seeing Sinclair again
would be in the pre-quel, and somehow I don't think we'll see him there
either.
PeterT
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| 131.23 | The One who is to come... | EDM082::SOULE | Pursuing Synergy... | Tue Jun 03 1997 19:34 | 17 |
| So as NOT to spoil...
With regard to the "One who is to come"...
I'm surprised NO one has mentioned Lennier as a possible
head of the Gray Council. We know that Vir becomes Centauri
Emperor but what's to become of Lennier? Both Vir and Lennier
have served their respective Ambassadors in an exemplary fashion.
Lennier seems very wise these days... It wouldn't surprise me
if JMS elevates this character (perhaps it is in the arc) to lead
the Gray Council and perhaps be Mentor to David...
Anyway, guess we will just have to wait...
|