Conference hips::babylon5

    any word on when this is to be broadcast?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Sean

Mid-April, isn't it?

    04/21/97?  76   410    Racing Mars
    04/28/97?  77   411    Lines of Communication
    05/05/97?  78   412    Conflicts of Interests
    05/12/97?  79   413    Rumors, Bargains and Lies
    05/19/97?  80   414    Moments of Transition
    05/26/97?  81   415    *

The question marks following, which are exactly how it appears in the
Lurker's Guide, imply that these are the likely dates, but
have not yet been confirmed.  More news as we know it.

PeterT

Has anyone noticed that we haven't seen a non-JMS written episode since
season 2?  I thought he was going to quit writing them all sometime by now.

He had said that after completing all the writing by himself for season 3 
(and the last 6 or more of season 2) that he understood why no one has
ever done this before, and he certainly wouldn't be doing it again.
But then they won the Hugo and there's the uncertainty of season 5
to deal with.  Winning the Hugo re-energized him  (to paraphrase his
remarks) and things are moving a bit fast to throw a writer who is
not up to speed into the mix.  So, for now, they are all being 
written by him.

Interestingly too, though he has professed before that he has no interest
in directing an episode, Warner Brothers has persuaded him to do so,
saying it can only help his writing ability to know how to deal with
things on that end of the camera.  So he will be directing 422,
which may just be the end of year 4.  Or it may be the end of 
the B5 series (hopefully leading into the sequel.)  In the latter
case, it would be titled either "Farewell" or "Dreaming in Light".

PeterT

    Woo hoo?

>    Woo hoo?



Obscure enough that I didn't realize it was really a spoiler.

I'll leave it obscure, and do some spoiler space below...
































Are we having fun yet???











Kind of a slow episode.


This was one of those episodes that seem to be setting up things rather
than reaping what had gone before.  No Narns or Centauri, just the
humans and a bit of Minbari, and well, I guess a trace of the shadows.
Captain Jack was kind of interesting, perhaps more so for his keeper
(and I assume that is what that was) rather than anything else.
And one has to wonder just where Garibaldi is heading.  Seems somewhat
reluctant to join the crew that is pursuing him.  Still a lot of questions
about what is going through his head.
  The Marcus and Franklin repartee was kind of fun, especially with 
Marcus falling into the role after being informed that their id's have
them on their honeymoon.  Sheridan's reaction to Delenn, and then finding
the other Minbari are going to be waiting in the ante-chamber was 
kind of cute.

All in all though, what sticks with me about this one were the confrontations
between Sheridan and Garibaldi, which just seemed to escalate out of
hand quickly.  It will be interesting to see where this goes, though
it doesn't look good for Mr. G.

PeterT

Oh yeah, there was a video glitch I noticed during the first Sheridan/Garibaldi
scene in this episode.  Just in case anyone thinks that UPN38 is mucking things
up again, I just wanted to let you know I noticed the same glitch on the 
tape I made from WNAC ch 64 on Saturday.  Of course, since I used the same
tape both times, maybe it was just the tape, and there was nothing wrong
with the broadcast....

PeterT

    
    
    Spoilers:
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    I don't recall anyone else bringing this up.  But given what happened
    to Capt. Jack,  has Geriabldi been fitted with a "keeper" when he
    was in the shadow ship, or was he just programmed by PsiCorp, or are
    these "keepers" the way Psicorp has been able to to do the
    "reprogramming". Plots within schemes within....
    
    I liked Ivonovas "negotiation" technique, "I have a 400 Megawat
    pulse cannon in the forward cargo bay that says he might have an
    accident".
    
    Sheriden: Who taught you to negotiate like that.
    Ivonova:  You did.
    
    fred();

Spoilers...













You know








they never






did say





just what





Mars was Racing....






>  I don't recall anyone else bringing this up.  But given what happened
>  to Capt. Jack,  has Geriabldi been fitted with a "keeper" when he
>  was in the shadow ship, or was he just programmed by PsiCorp, or are
>  these "keepers" the way Psicorp has been able to to do the
>  "reprogramming". Plots within schemes within....


Doubt it.  Remember Garibaldi was extensively scanned and tested by Franklin
after he was found.  The keeper on Capt. Jack was readily visible.  
Hmmmm, but then the one on Londo, way back in the Future of War without End,
was only visible when asleep.  Curiouser and curiouser...  I still tend to
doubt it, as that multi-colored message he received seemed more directed
to an inner programming, rather than a message to a keeper, per se.

But then again...


PeterT

    
    
    
    
    
    
    Ok, a little spoiler space....not that it means much with my reply...
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    ....but
    
    
    
    
    I thought the meeting of Sheridan and (I can't believe I don't remember
    his name now! Argh) Bill Mumy in the lift "Woo Hoo"! I thought that was 
    a riot! Someone get me up to speed on these keepers...we know the
    Centauri has one on him because we saw (one of its) eye on his shoulder
    like it was growing instead of just being there....Londo has one? Are
    you thinking of the Techonomage demon thing?? I may have missed
    something somewhere in these conversations as I usually do pay close
    attention to this show. At least I was able to get it taped and watch
    it last night. Next week looks pretty cool "Who are you"....."Guess"
    (with something in its hand). Cool looking graphics.
    
    The repartee between Franklin and Marcus was funny to watch also.
    Garibaldi though....just seems to have made such a DRASTIC change since
    coming back and quitting his job makes me wonder WHO did this to him?
    Do we know it WAS psycorp(sp) or bureau 13 (whom I vaguely remember
    hearing about waaaaaaaay back in the series and in here)? I wonder if
    they are going to wrap this up this season....we have what, about a
    dozen more episodes before it could end right?
    
    

re -1






sp








       oi






              le







                      rs









Keepers:  The regent on Centauri prime currently has one.  I think it probably
only has the 1 eye, but they've only been seen briefly.  Londo does not
have one...yet.  What I was refering to about Londo's keeper was in the
2 part episode, "War Without End" when they take B4 back to the previous 
Shadow war 1000 years ago.  At one point, Sheridan became 'unstuck' in time,
and he ended up on Centauri Prime about 20 years in the future (though the
number of 17 years comes to mind.)  At this point, after summoning Delenn
and Sheridan back from the dungeon's, Londo tells them that his keeper is 
asleep, and then when G'Kar starts strangling him, we see the keeper wake
up.  Though they show the keeper close up, it was a confusing few moments
of screen action, and you may think for some reason they are showing 
G'Kars eye, and not realize it is the keeper, but trust me on this one.
We already know Londo is going to become Emperor, probably sometime before 
the end of this season, and we can only speculate that the keeper will be
attached shortly afterwards.

As for Garibaldi, we SUSPECT it is Psicorps who is at least partially 
responsible.  When Garibaldi was trapped in that cell, where they 
questioned him "What happened to you after you left Babylon 5?"  (I don't
think that's the correct wording, and I'm starting to think that is a 
clue, the exact wording, that is) he kept replying that he didn't remember.
Then he starts hitting the walls with a chair and busting up things.
And then he gets gassed.  When someone comes in to check on him, it's pretty
obvious from the badge that the person is a member of Psicorp, and if
I remember correctly, that person had the black clothing of a PsiCop.
We haven't heard much (anything) about Bureau 13 since "A Spider in the Web"
and jms, over the net, has pretty much said that it was subsummed into
other organizations.

PeterT

    
    re: -1
    
    
    
    
    I don't remember seeing the eye when G'Kar and Londo are strangling
    each other...it has been awhile. Wasn't that in one of Londo's dreams
    also? I believe it was. So, Londo will get "kidnapped" and a Keeper put
    into him (which apparently grows, but how big?? Kill the host
    eventually?? Genetic thingy that is programmed by shadow minions to
    subvert normal stuff they would do/spy for them/etc...???).....I have
    to work out how to program my other VCR since my older one almost
    trashed this tape when I was trying to FF to the episode!
    
    

    comments on episode: after formsfeeds
    
    comments/maybe spoilers
    
    
    comments:
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Even though some of the scenes were rather dark in nature, there were
    some fun ones.  
    
    Leneer (sp?) and Sheridan in the elevator .. woo hoo?  Sheridan's
    discomfort and shifting feet showed more than I think words would have.
    I'd this vision of "what else did they hear?" going through his head.
    
    Marcus and the Doc - "and that's when I shot him your honor" in the
    middle of a "I'm thinking of something starting with..." game.  Similar
    to the last scene last week with them on the cargo ship and the doc
    "this conversation can only end in a gunshot". Out of context it's
    sounds violent, but in context, it was funny.
    
    The whole bit where they have id's saying they are on their honeymoon
    was also fun. I have a feeling Marcus is not going to let the doc
    forget about this for a while!
    
    The eye creatures/keepers - you'd think removing themselves from their
    host would kill the host, once they are fully integrated. Maybe this
    one on Caption Jack was more recent than they realized and could
    separate from the host. Uck!  And Londo used to temporarily control his
    by getting drunk (in the episode in the future).  Ugly things - a few
    nightmares about this -I can see me  waking up to check my shoulder!
    
    Wnder is Marcus and the doc will be able to convince Mars of the war
    and what rangers are?
    
    janetb.

    Spoiler spaces:
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    RE: Cap'n Jack
    
    Only *part* of it separated from Jack.  Recall the tentacle creeping
    over his shoulder while he was in the tube?
    
    About the 3 guys trying to recruit Garibaldi--it is logical to assume
    they're from EarthGov, not station dissidents.  But do one or more have
    a Keeper/parasites also?   Probably not...
    
    							Don
                                              

    
    
    
    
    
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spoilers <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    sooon now...
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    	Ok.
    
    1. Why doesn't Marcus feel the keeper on Cptn Jack when holding him?
    
    2. For those who noticed, Garibaldi swings with his right, then hits
    	with his left hand. (trust me, we have 4 independent viewers who
    	have agreed this is a continuity bug.)
    
    3. How did Cptn Jack find out they grow back? (ewww!)
    
    4. I think that Garibaldi has also been sending signals to Sheridan.
    	He says "You don't *LISTEN* to me (or perhaps anyone, but I think
    	it was *me*. That makes more sense.)."
    
    	I think that the subsumed Garibaldi personality is trying to tell
    	Sheridan what happened, but can't. And is trying to maybe become
    	(ah, this just came to me) an *investigator* to find out who did
    	it to him. So that's why he _slowly_ joins those baddies...
    
    	And I think that this is Bester's spy, from when he's talking
    	to his lover-cycle. I think the scene testing Garibaldi is them
    	making sure that he "doesn't remember" anything of his being
    	captured and then programmed...
    
    Ben
    

    
        spoilers:
























    Well we have at least three ways that a persons personality can be
    co-opted.  
    1) the keepers.  
    2)Psicor "brainwashing" (for lack of a
    better word) as in the case of Lyta Alexander.  Is this with the 
    aid of the shadow "technology"?  We don't know at this point.  
    3)The cyborg (for lack of a better word) connection to the shadow ships,
    as in Bester's girlfriend.  Is this done with the aid of the "keepers"?
    Is this why the connections can't be removed?  Don't know at this
    point.

    Was Geribaldi "co-opted" by the shadows in the shadow ship or later
    by PsiCor? or Both? (Now there's an interesting thought).  Again
    don't know at this point.

    fred();

<    2)Psicor "brainwashing" (for lack of a
<    better word) as in the case of Lyta Alexander.  

I assume you mean Ms. Talia Winters?  Or do you mean the brainwashing that
every telepath goes through?

   Carol

    Talia--right.  I get the names confused sometimes.
    fred();

    
    spoilers:
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    There's also Anne Sheridan's, "Once you have been in one of those
    things [shadow ship] for a while, you are never the same again".
    
    Geribaldi was in one for "a while".  How long is "a while" and does
    one have to be "wired" or just be there?
    
    fred();

Sp



oil




ers






be






low






Hold the mayo!










I suspect that Anna Sheridan's change was more due to being wired in
as the pilot, or CPU or whatever.  Being taken aboard as Garibaldi was
may be somewhat disturbing, but would not in and of itself be the 
reason for the changes we we've seen.

PeterT

    
    
    
    ok, I think we've had enough spoilers that I don't need one. Garibaldi
    was on top in some sort of tractor field I guess for the journey to
    wherever it was they took him. At least that is my take. Anna
    apparently was *inside* one as a pilot/cpu/whatever so she was changed
    moreso that Garibaldi is. Garibaldi is just a pawn for them to
    undermine Sheridan and his people through whatever means he can, hence
    the *thugs* show up to see if he is still "with them" as they put it.
    
    At least that is what I am reading into this scenario that we have. It
    appears to be heating up again with this weeks coming episode, and I
    might even stay up late saturday night/sunday am to catch this one as
    it looks good. Poor cap'n jack, who else do we know gets/has a keeper
    at this time? We know Londo gets one some time in the future. And how
    come we haven't seen anything of Lyta (yum!) lately? She can keep her
    black eyes though! ;-)  And can someone clarify what happened with
    Talias switch and where she went (the note would be cool) as I only
    remember when the telepaths were blocking bester after she did
    something so that he wouldn't see them/someone in one episode and I
    don't recall what happened henceforth with her to change sides and
    split the scene (or how she left, ie with Bester, or otherwise).
    
    thanks in advance.
    
    

    No, we do still need spoilers.  Let us remember our good friends
    in the UK (where, after all, the node that this conference resides
    on is located!  Ever wonder why the access is a bit slow at times?)
    They will see the final four episodes of this season before us,
    so if you want to avoid being spoiled during the summer,
    remember this before you post.  There's little in your first
    paragraph however that spoils this episode, so it's not that bad...
    
    
    
    Following are spoilers...
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    As far as Garibaldi being on top/inside (uhm, did I really just 
    write that?) the confusion is understandable.  Some things flash
    by so quickly that I'm glad I have the tapes to refer back to.
    I normally see these episodes twice over the weekend they air,
    and sometimes more.  My first viewing of Garibaldi's ship on
    the shadow vessel was pretty much interpreted just that way, that
    it was indeed on top, and no inside the ship.  But after reading
    other peoples comments about it being inside, I went back and 
    had a look.  And I had to agree.  We see his starfury just underneath
    the skin of the battlecrab, as you can detect the outer layers of 
    the skin over the surface of the starfury.  I suppose one could 
    argue that we are seeing some optical effect of a tractor beam,
    but with the organic tech these things are made of, I tend to 
    think the starfury has been absorbed into the surface.
    
    In a similar manner, it took a review of the tapes for me to actually
    notice the keeper on the future Londo in War Without End.  There is
    one shot where G'Kar is strangling Londo (and yeah, we've seen THAT
    much in Londo's dream images) and then there is this close up, and
    this eye snaps open.  It's yellowish, if I remember, and has a 
    vertical pupil like a cat or a snakes, and then we're back to 
    Londo starting to strangle G'Kar.  It flashes by fairly quickly, and
    I remember thinking the first time I saw the show, 'Why the close up
    on G'Kar's eye?'  It wasn't till I'd read in the Lurker's Guide
    or in one of JMS's replies in the digests I get, that I went back
    and actually saw the keeper for what it was.  And then realized it
    COULDN'T have been G'Kar's eye, since he has a red iris and a round
    pupil.  It was at that point that I really started to get creeped out
    over keepers!
    
    
    As far as what happened to Talia...  In Divided Loyalties, Lyta 
    escaped from Mar's and arrived hurt at B5 with the news that one
    of the head people on B5 was actually a traitor.  Actually an
    unknowing traitor, since they had a personality planted in them
    that was hidden from the core personality.  But Lyta had the password
    that had to be sent telepathically into the person's head.  But 
    she had no idea who the traitor was.  So she started sending it to
    the command staff, one by one.  Except for Ivanova, who refused 
    to undergo it.  
    
    But it occurs to me, that if you can't remember this episode, which
    was rather a major one, that maybe you missed it somehow.
    If you like I can lend you the tape, or direct you to the Lurker's
    Guide to check out the episode there.  Wouldn't want to spoil it
    for you after all....  ;-)
    
    
    PeterT
    

    spoiler?
    
    
    
    
    
    .
    
    
    
    
    .
    
    
    
    
    .
    
    
    
    
    3
    
    
    2
    
    
    1
    
    
    ok
    Didn't PsyCore capture a shadow-ship on Mars, or someplace and get
    it running?  Was THAT the ship that captured Gharibaldi's?

    
    re: .24
    
    I appreciate the offer (I am in SHR and live in Methuen), but I think I
    can wait for it to come out on TNT next year (and watch the WHOLE thing
    all over again). I was also considering getting the tapes, but need to
    see how they are packaged, ie in chronological order, 2-3 eps a tape,
    or whatnot like X-Files. (6 hr tapes, they should be able to squeeze
    5-6 episodes sans commercials on them! But video qual would drop).
    
    

    Ahh, don't hold your breath on tapes.  Fans have been asking for them
    for years, but Warner Brothers, who holds the rights, have no 
    interest in them.  ie, they don't think doing tapes of TV shows
    is profitable, just the commercially released movies.  
    This is the domestic division of Warner Bro's.  The European
    division or whatever handles the UK, has already released the 
    first season or 2, and if I remember correctly, they are among
    the best selling tapes over there (beating out various movies).
    Go figure.  JMS has argued with them about this, but nothing is
    happening at present.
    
    Actually I'd love to see them hold out long enough so that the
    whole series gets released in the HDTV format that it has been
    shot in.  But that's a few years off...
    
    
    Spoilers for .-2
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    That should do it...
    
    
    
    Did PsiCorp get their hands on a ship?  Mars?  Nope.  That was
    discussed by Anna Sheridan in "Z'Ha'Dum" and seen in, I think
    "Messages from Earth"  That one was discovered, perhaps by 
    IPX, and they started to excavate it.  But exposing it caused 
    it to send out a signal, and another shadow ship came along and
    finished the excavation.  As Anna (or was it Morden) revealed, they
    attached a homing beacon to it, and that's how they tracked it to,
    and discovered, Z'Ha'Dum.  In the same episode, Messages From Earth,
    we saw how they had discovered another ship on Ganymede, and were 
    trying to activate and keep that one for themselves.  That's the 
    one Delenn and Sheridan headed off to prevent.  They got to Jupiter
    space just as the subject entered the ship and "went mad".  It
    destroyed the base on Ganymede, or a good portion of it, and then
    Sheridan lured it into the atmosphere of Jupiter, where it was 
    eventually crushed.  So PsiCorp has no shadow ships at their disposal.
    
    However, it appears there was some sort of arrangement between PsiCorp
    and the shadows.  Morden was seen at Earthdome with a PsiCorp rep.
    Morden was the one who assured Clark that Santiago would be 
    assasinated, and there were those 'blips', the telepaths who would
    not join PsiCorp, who were enroute to be linked up with battlecrabs
    in "Ship of Tears".  So it's entirely possible that he was delivered
    to PsiCorp under some arrangement with the shadows.  
    
    PeterT