Conference pasta::flex

    Jeb
    
    To be honest, I think you need to consult your personal physician for
    an answer.  This is just a notesfile of people who like to trade
    information about weigth lifting and assorted sports activities.  I
    beleive I speak for all of us, in that if you have been told your too
    high risk for a stress test, then you really need to talk to your own
    doctor to get the answers to your questions.  I know I would not want
    to say something, have you try it then keel over from a hear attack 8^)
    
    Talk to your doctor, its the best place for this information.
    
    Brian
         

    Actually, I already have.  He gave me a "clean bill of health", as it
    were.  However, he would not recommend a weight loss program, even when
    urged.  There was no concern about my level of health.  Just a
    reluctance to "get involved" and take a personal interest.  I really
    don't understand why, other than my general lack of faith in the
    medical community, and my belief that fear of liability outweighs any
    possibility of doing the "right thing".  He gave me the full smear,
    including an EKG, though he did not give me a stress test.
    
    The problem is, although everything and everyone says "see your
    doctor", just try it some time.  They won't do or tell you anything
    when it comes to exercise, unless you've already had a heart attack,
    that is! There are specialty "sports medicine" physicians these days,
    but as something I read recently said, they are primarily to help
    atheletes and would-be atheletes recover from over-doing.  There are
    bizarre fat farms you can go to, where they have paddles charged and
    ready in case you keel over.  But NO ONE will give you a sensible
    program, monitor you, and send you off on your own.  I think they all
    consider it too risky.
    
    As for the risk assessment forms, they are based 99% on generic
    information, like "do you have relatives with heart conditions".  They
    don't say anything about you personally, they just come up with a
    statistic that flags off the tester if your uncle smoked five packs a
    day and keeled over at 45.
    
    Bottom line, I can't seem to find resources anywhere that will assist. 
    I'm beginning to understand how lepers or aids patients feel.  "What? 
    He's overweight and sedentary?!?!  Run away!!!!!"  :-(
    
    I have feelers out in a few places I've seen on the net.  In the
    meantime I'm working out at a level that that would be easy for an
    octogenarian, and despite my very low levels, I'm seeing weight loss
    (albeit slow) and improvement (higher speed and distance at the same
    low heart rate).
    
    Its wierd, because my wife says she used to be concerned about me
    hopping on the NordicTrack, huffing and puffing and getting all red
    faced.  Now she's concerned I'm not going fast enough!
    
    In fact, all over the net they recommend 60-85%, which is actually
    pretty darn high.  I'm actually below that, so I'm not worried.  I was
    just hoping that someone might have come across some additional
    information on this along the way and could point me to it.
    
    Thanks anyway!
    
    jeb
    

    Jeb
    
    You need a new doctor.  Mine is always ready to help answer my
    questions.  When I had high chlorestoral many years ago, he put me on a
    diet of excercise and nutrition and I have been going since.  Doctors
    are like any service, you just keep going until you find one you like
    and responds to your needs.  I would not keep going to a doctor that
    does not give you the medical advise you seek.
    
    Brian

    Well, I just called and switched.  I'll see Friday if I get any better
    results.
    
    jeb
    

i agree, new doc and seeing as how you did just switch- make sure to ask the 
right questions and press for answers if he doesn't give you what you want.  if 
you belong to an hmo, see if they have a nutritionist on staff.

there's also jenny craig, weightwatchers etc which all becoming certified and 
are being made to have actual doctors on staff or at least referencable to 
give you the info you need.

any doc that says you don't need to lose weight and (if) you are carrying around
a spare tire, etc- that doc is a quack.

i hope you new one is more responsive to yuor needs.

reg.

                                          
    A few weeks ago, I was in a weekend seminar with John Douillard, a
    former Olympic Triathlete, turned Ayurvedic doctor, and now has a
    Life-Spa clinic out in Boulder, Colorado.
    
    He has written a book entitled, "Body, Mind, and Sport", which talks
    about many of these kinds of topics, especially how to legitimately
    access the zone.  (This is unrelated to the Zone book that was 
    published not that long ago.)
    
    Probably the best tip I learned at the seminar is that we should all be
    breathing in and out through our nose, especially when we exercise.  As
    a group, we did an exercise of walking up and down a very long
    driveway/hill, all the while breathing in and out slowly through our
    noses.  I was in great shape, just having come back from a week of
    skiing in Switzerland, so I was having no problem at all.  He came to
    me toward the end, told me to sprint up the last bit of driveway, and
    finally I hit the point where I wanted to take a mouth breath in.  I
    slowed down, kept with nose breathing, and went through it.  Amazing.
    
    After returning, I went back to climbing the usual 12 flights of stairs
    where I was working for the prior 3 months, only using nasel breathing. 
    I did have to slow down a few times, but rather than being winded and
    exhausted and having to walk around to slow down my heart rate, I was
    calm, cool, energized, and the receptionist couldn't believe I'd just
    'walked the stairs'.  I took along a colleague the next day, had him do
    it with me, and he couldn't believe it either.  One can do this during
    weight training, Nordictrack, running, etc.  I have also tried it on my
    exercise bike, just focusing in on nasel breathing (no reading), and
    suddenly, 5 miles went by without my even noticing.
    
    John also has out a tape set called "Invincible Athlete" which is good
    too.  He has consulted to many of the top tennis players - Billie Jean
    King, Martina Navratalova, etc., along with many top athletes as well, 
    and they highly recommend his program.  For those of you who know about
    Ayurveda, John co-managed the Lancaster, MA clinic with Deepak Chopra
    for 8 years.  He's one amazing person.
    
    Cindy

    Re: nasal breathing
    
    Thats interesting.  In a sense, I sort've discovered that myself,
    because, until the fatty acid flood kicks in, I can exert a lot of
    control over my heart rate just by careful deep breathing.
    
    However, after the "flood", which is happening for me anywhere from
    18-24 minutes, my heart rate is completely dependent on my exertion
    level.  I think at that point, if I were to raise my heart rate until
    I'm on the border of having to breath through my mouth, then I'd
    clearly be identifying my aerobic threshold.
    
    I'm not quite ready to do that because...
    
    I visited my new primary care physician.  I can't say I'm overly
    impressed.  His immediate response was that 110bpm was too slow, but at
    the end of the interview (since he didn't really check me out) he
    recanted and suggested I keep it low till I'm over the 30 minute mark.
    Unfortunately he seemed more focused on my cholesterol, and treating it
    with meds, rather than encouraging someone who is obviously prepared to
    start a fitness program to go for it!
    
    Despite the doctor's warning, duration isn't my problem.  I'm convinced
    I could be going an hour right now, but I'm worried that if my body
    tells me I'm overdoing, its going to be in a way I really don't like. 
    So I've been working up gradually so my body doesn't have to issue any
    stern warnings.  I'm probably way below what I COULD do safely, but
    better safe than sorry. (A friend suggested I take a stress test in the
    doctor's office, because that way if something happened, he'd have the
    paddles right there - GREAT IDEA!!!!  :-(
    
    Re: "the flood".
    
    Covert Bailey describes the "fatty acid flood" in his new book "Smart
    Exercise".  I have to admit it was really a trip when I experienced
    "the flood" for the first time this weekend.  I was hauling along, my
    pulse and speed jumping all over the place as usual, and then all of a
    sudden, my pulse just dropped like a rock, from 110 to 90, and my speed
    just started coming up.  I brought my speed up to 4.2kph (according to
    the Nordictrack) which is normally tough for me to reach without
    exceeding my target HR, and my pulse was nailed on 108 (my current
    target).  It was really cool seeing this effect actually taking place
    in me.
    
    I think I may try the nasal breathing thing in a couple more days, just
    to see how that pace jibes with my predicted heart rates.  I know
    compared to weight lifting this may all be pretty bizarre, but I really
    appreciate having a place to toot my horn.  Thanks!
    
    jeb
    

nasal breathing revisisted.  a while back i brought up the notion of nasal 
breathing and got all in a twither over it.  i do practice nasal breathing most 
all the time, and my sense of smell [which was exceptionally good to begin with]
has increased ten fold allowing me smell an ant fart nowadays.

i generally feel calmer, more enegetic, however- under times of extensive stress
i have found that i really do need to exhale forcefully through my mouth and 
nose [benching, squating, leg presses, running up hill to name a few]

nasal breathing is a great relaxation technique [yoga] and is a wonderful way to
help one sleep better at nite [i think so, anyway].

it takes awhile to get used to and sometimes its not so good [i.e. wearing face 
mask in fab and inhaling your own breath everyday; i _will_not_ stop eating 
garlic though!] 8^)

work at it for most anything you do, however, you may find that you will 
occassionally need to gulp for air when really stressing the body.  remember,
we all start out not even breathing through our mouths until the doc whacks us 
on the bottom [not that we were breathing our noses, either and not that our 
lungs weren't full of the gift of life, too].

reg.

    
    >i generally feel calmer, more enegetic, however- under times of
    >extensive stress i have found that i really do need to exhale 
    >forcefully through my mouth and nose 
    
    That's the key.  Mouth breathing is a reaction to stress, and the body 
    is sent into 'fight or flight' mode.  When in this mode, the body burns 
    short-term reserves of sugar, as opposed to longer-term reserves of 
    fat.  Also, it's been shown that when the body goes into this state,
    free radicals are released, and this is not a good thing. 
    
    Exercise should not be stressful.  It does take time to retrain to
    breathe through one's nose...it took John somewhere between 3-6 months
    to get back to where he was with traditional breathing...but it can be
    done.
    
    John talked about a story with one of his children, when his child was
    an infant, he was trying to breathe through his nose but it was stuffed
    up and couldn't.  Eventually, in response to this, he panicked and began 
    to cry (body was sent into a stressful 'fight or flight' mode), which 
    triggered breathing through his mouth.  It is not a natural thing for
    us to breathe through our mouths, but because we are always under so
    much stress, that's what we've learned to do.   
    
    Our noses contain turbines to focus the air and drive it down into the
    lower lobes of our lungs.  It's also important to exhale through the
    nose as well, to drive the toxins back out from the lower lobes.  Mouth
    breathing - even though it may seem to - does not reach the lower lobes
    at all.  It only goes into the upper lobes.
    
    Cindy

    
    Re.7
    
    Yes, that does sound characteristic of reaching the Zone - where your 
    pulse rate remains the same, yet your performance increases.
    
    John mentioned a marathoner who ran a marathon using nasel breathing
    (he had been training with it for some time beforehand), yet couldn't 
    get his pulse rate up past 126.  Initially the heart rate may go up 
    when you switch to nasel breathing, because it does take some adjusting.
    
    It will be interesting to read your findings.
    
    Cindy
                                                                

    
     
    I know much of this has been discussed before in this conference
    but here's a related topic that kind've ties in the nasal breathing
    and aerobic/anerobic debate.
    
  I read an interesting article in Climbing magazine the other day 
  in regards to aerobic/anaerobic training for high altitude climbers.
  The article touched on the fact that more intense "aerobic" workouts
  actually do less for a person that is trying to lower their body
  fat than less intense workouts.  It went on to say that when your 
  maintaining your heart rate in the 50-65% max. your body is recouping
  its energy from stored fat.  At this heart rate you're body is capable
  of supplying the required oxygen necessary to metabolize fat stores.
  (On a side note it said something to the affect that theoretically
  since the majority of the population has >15% body fat, ~30-40k stored
  calories, one should be able to maintain a 50-65% max. heart rate
  activity for some rediculous length of time).   When you're training
  above the 65% max. heart rate you are incapable of supplying enough
  oxygen to your body to metabolize fat, so you get your energy from
  carbs/protiens which are metabolized more easily.  The average person
  can carb load ~2000 calories, once these are burnt, the debilitating 
  affects of lactid acid build up occur because you're now chowin' 
  protien, your muscles. 

    In a nutshell the flavor of the article came down to more 
    is not necessarily better ...

  From a pure weight loss/body fat reduction point of view, less 
  intensity and longer aerobic workouts are more beneficial than
  high intensity anaerobic.

  From a climbing/endurance athelete point of view, the key is to train
  your body to metabolize fat through long "aerobic" workouts but to also
  mix in anerobic high intensity workouts so your body is trained to 
  handle heavy stress/burst of power situations when necessary.  
    
       For what its worth, thought you might be interested ...
     
                                                       db

    Hey, I'm pumping up some heavy iron, now!  Thats right!  I jumped right
    on up to the big time.  Two sets, 20 reps, and, are you ready for this? 
    THREE POUND DUMBELLS!  
    
    Yessir, you BB people are really going to stand in awe before *my*
    mighty biceps!  (Should you ever somehow get a glimpse of me!)
    
    As mentioned in previous notes, I am taking things slow.  But I've
    moved up to occasional forays at higher pulse rates, so I figured that
    I might be able to tolerate lifting something that weighs about a third
    as much as the brief case and laptop computer I carry to work every
    day!
    
    Actually, I am really amazed at how quickly I'm starting to see the
    definition return (I've lifted a little from time to time, way back).
    I don't think anyone standing beside me could see it (I keep flexing
    for my wife - she grins supportively and goes back to peeling
    potatoes).  But I can definitely see a little tiny bit of shape whereas
    before it was just round flabby stuff.
    
    Right now I'm only doing curls, and whatever they call the one that
    compliments the opposing muscles; where you hold a weight over your
    head and lower it behind your back.  Oh, and shrugs.  Not a full
    program at all, but even this little bit I'm convinced is keeping my
    wieght from coming down.
    
    However, I have so much energy I can't believe it, so I'm still
    tracking my heart rate, watching my progress, and trying not to get
    depressed about the scale being rusted solid in one spot.  Oh, and even
    though its hard for even me to see, I feel my jeans getting looser and
    looser.  I'm living for the day I slip into the next lower size
    without the help of machinery!
    
    jeb