Conference bulova::decwindows

I'd suggest checking out the INTERNET_TOOLS conference.  

>>X-server system: VAXstation 4000/60 VAX/VMS V6.1 48 Mb memory

There was a known problem with 4000's - that I think ended up being fixed 
in the native Netscape for OpenVMS.  I think it had to do with the graphics
card that many of the 4000's had in it.

In any case, if it was a problem that was fixed in the software, the UNIX 
version sure as hell isn't going to have the fix.

Brian J.

    Netscape does some fill operations will large, clipped areas.  It beats
    up most servers that try to use hardware clipping logic instead of
    falling back to intellegent software clipping.  The base (LCG) graphics
    on the VS4000 happens to be one.  But it also caused several of the VMS
    and UNIX Alpha servers to be patched.
    
    

So it seems there are three things to explore:

1) Try an upgraded Netscape Navigator.

2) Try a patched (or new) DECwindows server on the VMS cluster.

3) Upgrade the satellite  workstation to one that doesn't use the
   problematic hardware clipping logic of the base (LCG) graphics on
   the VS4000.

Of these (1) is the easiest to do and under my control (although according
to reply .1 not very promising).  I'll upgrade from Netscape Navigator 3.0
for Digital Unix to 3.01, and need to try it for a week or more to be fairly
sure there are no more "hangs".

Of (2), this is a satellite node of a large VMS Cluster.  I have a much
better chance of persuading our system management to upgrade the
cluster-wide DECwindows software if the problem definitely was known to be
fixed in version x.y.

Of (3) likewise, I might be able to get a different workstation on my desk
if I knew which model has hardware that is not susceptible to this.

Fred, any recommendations on (2) and (3)?

/thanks, Ed

>>Of these (1) is the easiest to do and under my control (although according
>>to reply .1 not very promising).  I'll upgrade from Netscape Navigator 3.0
>>for Digital Unix to 3.01, and need to try it for a week or more to be fairly
>>sure there are no more "hangs".

There was a software fix applied to the OpenVMS version of the Navigator, as
far as I know there were never any plans to move that fix onto any other
platform!

bjm

    
>There was a software fix applied to the OpenVMS version of the Navigator, as
>far as I know there were never any plans to move that fix onto any other
>platform!
>
>bjm

    Isn't it possible to integrate this fix into DecWindows? Looks like a
    better solution to me, than fixing any application I might find?
    
    Hauke_

    In a nutshell, "DECwindows" isn't a specific thing.  It's a collection
    of a lot of things.  There is no one special place where a "fix" can be
    applied to correct the problem.  VMS fixed it in the best place for our
    purposes, but it doesn't help if you are not running Netrscape locally.
    
    The VAX servers are supposed to be supported by the Workstation group,
    but they believe that they are "retired" since they stopped shipping
    the hardware a long time ago - for all intents and purposes there is no
    ongoing maintenance support.  So getting a "fix" into the LCG server is
    problematic at best.  You need to raise the heat to the level of having
    the customer call Bob Palmer.  I believe that someone did look at the
    problem, and the "fix" wasn't simple, or it might have been done.
    
    The VS4000-60 supports 2 graphics.  The built in LCG hardware, and the
    optional SPX hardware.  I suspect that the problem does not occur on
    the SPX, but I can't verify it.
    
    Replacing the VAX with an Alpha would solve the problem, since the
    level of support, and willingness to fix problems is higher.
    
    

    > The VAX servers are supposed to be supported by the Workstation group,
    > but they believe that they are "retired" since they stopped shipping
    > the hardware a long time ago - for all intents and purposes there is
    > no ongoing maintenance support.
    
    Despite the regretable phrasing that Fred likes to use, his
    facts are correct:  there is no ongoing maintenance of the
    VAX 4000-60 for problems such as this one.  We spent a *LOT*
    of time and energy getting Netscape to run better on VAXstations
    last year (and the year before);  but there are limits to our
    human resources, and limits to that little 4000-60's resources.
    Even though my 386 *could* run Windows 3.1, I'd be foolish to
    try (and even more foolish to expect Microsoft to "fix" it).
    Netscape can be a demanding taskmaster, and there's no money in
    making VS 4000's last longer.
    
    > You need to raise the heat to the level of having the customer
    > call Bob Palmer.
    
    There's a customer involved here? :-)   It would have to be a
    customer who's about to buy MORE workstations, and is willing
    to cancel a [big] deal unless his VS4000-60's run Netscape better.
    Even when we fixed the last few problems brought on by Netscape,
    the company lost money.  I don't think the economics of supporting
    old equipment have changed this year.
    
    Go the route of getting a cheap Alpha box, running VMS, UNIX or NT.
    I finally gave up my VAXstation last Fall;  life is different, but
    still good.
    

    Don't get me wrong (or get me going ;-).  If we don't intend to fix
    bugs, then we should retire the product.  There is an official process
    to do it.  The good things are: Nobody will be pestering you to fix
    problems with antique hardware, and if they do want it fixed, they can
    pay for it via previous version support.  Of course, it will also piss
    off a bunch of customers who are quite happy with their antiques.
    
    I recognize the problem that the workstation group has in trying to
    support a wide variety of old and new products, as well as perform
    ongoing development.