Conference noted::ibmpc-95

    Hello,
    
    I know this has probably been discussed (did a couple dir/tit), but
    I was trying to find out if Intel is the best place to buy a Pentium
    chip for my Celebris 466.  Also, how about disks and a CD...I have
    looked around the CSC, and parts are slim.  I am a work at home'r,
    and want to get the best price...
    
    I appreciate any input.
    
    michael stafford
    Colorado Springs
    

    re: .105
    
    You're talking about an Overdrive chip?  Take a look at note
    5141 in the DIGITAL notesfile regarding special prices on 
    Overdrive chips for DIGITAL employees.
    
    (Or call Intel's 800-525-3019 FAXback and request document #9425)
    

    Thanks for the pointers Steve...much appreciated.
    
    michael

    We have a 5120 Celebris here at work with the following quirks;
    
    It has a 3.5" floppy 1.44mb and one 1.6gb hard drive.  That is what it
    physically has and that is what the BIOS says it has.
    
    However, in Windows 95 it sees that floppy as a 5.25" 1.2mb floppy and
    it sees a 2nd 245mb D: hard drive.  None of these exists.
    
    W95 will not let me delete the D drive.  W95 says that the floppy disk
    controller is not working properly.  I have removed it and re-installed
    it via add/remove hardware with the same results.
    
    In BIOS I removed and then added the 3.5" floppy 1.44mb but I still
    have the same problem in W95 (sees it as a 5.25" floppy).
    
    Any suggestions!  Thanks, Mark

Are there multiple partitions on the hard drive?  Do you have the 
Microsoft "large disks with INT13" fix installed?

				Steve

>Are there multiple partitions on the hard drive?  Do you have the 
>Microsoft "large disks with INT13" fix installed?
    
I do not think so but How can I tell?  
    
    I noticed that under Control-Panel, System, Performance, that
    file system = "Some drives using MS-DOS compatability"
    and in the large window the statement;
    
    	"Drive A: using MS-DOS compatibility mode file system"
    
    I emptied config.sys and autoexec.bat only has @echo off.
    
    We booted with a step-by-step option and found it is loading
    DOUBLESPACE.  How or where this is happening I do not know.  This
    probably explains the C and D drive.  In W95 it says C and D is not
    compressed.
    
    Still have no clude about the A drive problem.
    
    How can I get rid of DOUBLESPACE?  while not loosing data?
    
    Thanks, Mark
    
    
    

    One other thing.  The hard drive is probably a 1.2 gb drive like our
    other 5120s.  However DOUBLESPACE may make it appear larger.
    
    We have been playing with the BIOS.  Told it to AUTO detect the C
    drive.  It now comes up as a 1.2 gb drive, but we still have the D
    drive.
    
    Confusing?  You bet.  Thanks, Mark

From DOS, run FDISK and ask it to display partitions.

			Steve

    More info.  At this point I am not sure of the physical size of the C
    drive.  These systems originally came with a 1.2gb hard drive.  Maybe
    someone swapped and installed a 1.6gb hard drive.
    
    Fdisk said:
                                                           
    Partition  Status   Type            M Bytes System  Usage
    C:1		A	Pri DOS		1301	FAT16	84%
      2			Ext DOS		 246		16%
    
    Total Disk space 1547 MB
    
    Logical Dos info said:
    
    Partition  Status   Type            M Bytes System  Usage
    D:					 246    FAT16   100%
    
    I deleted the Logical DOS partition and the Extended DOS.  Re-booted.
    
    Fdisk now says:
    
    Partition  Status   Type            M Bytes System  Usage
    C:		 A	Pri DOS		1301	FAT16	84%
    
    Total Disk space 1547 MB
    
    W95 only sees a C drive (D is gone) with a size of 1.27gb.
    
    BIOS says C drive is 1624mb (auto)
    
    A drive still appears as a 5.25" floppy when it should be a 1.44 3.5".
    
    What was the Logical/Extended DOS partition all about?  What do we try
    next?
    
    Thanks, Mark

    re: Note 570.113 by USDEV::CLEMENT
    
    Mark, I think the problem you're having is the confusion between 
    physical drives (what the BIOS sees), and logical drives (what FDISK 
    and Windows 95 sees). It's unfortunate that letters were used from the
    beginning to refer to physical and logical drives, when (as in your
    case) they always don't correspond.
    
    Ken....
    
    

    What I need help in figuring out now is;
    
    1.  Why was there logical/extended partitions?
    2.  How and why does "double disk" show up in the startup.
    3.  Why is the file system being used not "32 bit" and how do I make it
        32 bit like our other Celebris Systems.
    
    I suppose the only way I am going to figure out the hard drive is to
    remove it and get the parameters off the drive.
    
    Thanks, Mark

You don't need to remove the drive.  All of the modern BIOSes obtain the drive 
geometry from the drive at boot time.  You don't have to enter the head, sector, 
and cylinder info by hand anymore.

As for you floppy problem...  Have you checked the BIOS settings to make sure 
that the BIOS agrees with the drive that is physically installed?

    I examined the hard drive.  It is a 1624.6mb Conner hard drive.
    
    The BIOS is correct in the geometry and size.  W95 only sees 1301mb.
    That extended/logical DOS partition (D: drive) made up the rest at
    246mb.  So now there is no longer an extended/logical DOS partition.
    
    I would think the C: drive needs to be FDISK'd and formatted in order
    to get back the bulk of the 1624.6mb.  Right?
    
    We still are baffled with the A: drive coming up as a 5.25" in W95 when
    it really is a 3.5" floppy.  W95 still shows errors with the floppy
    controller which has been deleted and re-installed.  W95 still
    indicates non 32-bit File System.  Does anyone know how to get back to 
    32 bit File System?
    
    Step by Step startup shows Double Space being loaded.  Do not know how
    why this is happening.
    
    Thanks, Mark 

    re: Note 570.115 by USDEV::CLEMENT
    
    > 1.  Why was there logical/extended partitions?
    
    That's the way someone FDISKed it before you got it.
    
    
    re: Note 570.117 by USDEV::CLEMENT
    
    If you want to set the drive up to have one partition (using the entire
    drive), you'll need to delete the existing partition and re-create it.
    Be aware that this will destroy all the data on the disk.
    
    Ken....

    The extended partition could well be the result of having had a
    large-disk manager installed with DOS (and corresponding Windows
    drivers). These software drivers, like OnTrack Disk Manager or
    EZ-Drive, have typically come packaged with hard drives larger than 528
    MB. They are necessary for the following:
    
    	- older systems (circa 1993 or earlier) that have
    	  "non-translating" BIOSs, which have a limit of 528 MB
    	  on the overall drive size
    
    	- newer (but not the newest) "translating" BIOSs that still have a
    	  limit of 4095 cylinders (2.1 GB)
    
    In addition, 2048 MB is the maximum partition size for DOS.
    
    The result of all this is that either via the disk manager software or
    by manual partitioning, you end up with a primary DOS partition and an
    extended DOS partition containing one or more logical drives. If the
    disk manager software is being used to get around BIOS limitations,
    this driver is generally stored as a hidden file in the root directory
    of your C: drive and loaded in CONFIG.SYS (OnTrack's is DMDRVR.BIN.).
    When I updated my mother board, to get rid of all vestiges of my copy
    of Disk Manager, in addition to removing the software, I eventually had
    to resort to re-partitioning the entire drive from scratch with FDISK.
    It was not fun.
    
    A similar situation exists with DOUBLESPACE, but it loads in 2 phases.
    DBLSPACE.BIN and DBLSPACE.INI are hidden files in your C: root
    directory and (I think) are loaded during the boot before CONFIG.SYS.
    DBLSPACE.SYS is loaded in CONFIG.SYS and moves the DBLSPACE bits to
    their final location in memory. The only way I found to actually
    get rid of DBLSPACE, even when I had no DBLSPACE partitions, short of
    re-installing DOS, was to rename the hidden file DBLSPACE.BIN.
    
    -Tom

    Win95 has a nasty habit of changing the IDE controller information and
    then not being able to get back to the original settings. At this point
    what I would recommand is that you fdisk the drive to regain the
    complete 1.6GB as the one and only partition, then re-format (you won't
    see anything until you do). Be aware that once you fdisk, you lose all
    data on the disk so back up all your important data first). Once you
    have a clean system, re-load Win95.
    
    Check you BIOS settings before you attempt this. Look specifically in
    the security section to see if you have any passwords set or options
    set to disable the floppy unless you're the operator. 
    
    If you still have the floppy problem after all this, try replacing the
    floppy cable (actuall, you should proabably try this first if you
    haven't already).
    
    regards,
    
    glen kelley

    Just for grins,  try re-seating the floppy cable before replacing it. 
    It may be that the cable is offset from the mating connector on the drive.
    I've never had any personal experience with an improperly positioned
    floppy cable causing the floopy drive to look like a 5 1/2 drive.
    but perhaps there is a signal/signals on the floppy IDE bus that if 
    it/they is/are seen floating, then maybe the motherboard thinks it 
    is the older 5 1/2 drive type.
    
    Bob

    Thanks for all the advice/info.  Re: a few back, yes BIOS says it is a
    1.44mb floppy.  Also we noticed in security that floppy disk access was 
    set to "supervisor" which we changed to "user".  There are no passwords
    enabled in BIOS.
    
    The system user says he swapped the floppy cable and floppy drive with
    that of another system with the same results (sees a 5.25" floppy).
    
    The floppy on this system is not usable.  So, if we fdisk the hard
    drive and reformat it, we will not be able to load software via the
    floppy, which will put us "dead in the water".
    
    I think we need to make sure we can get the floppy working before we
    try to change the hard drive.
    
    Thanks, Mark
    

    One last thought.  I still think the floppy problem has something to do 
    with the File System not being set to 32-bit.  
    
    Anyone know how to change this?  
    
    I renamed dblspace.bin and .ini and it no longer starts up double
    space!
    
    Mark

    re: USDEV::CLEMENT
    
    Mark,
    
    With the floppy security settings set improperly in CMOS setup, all
    bets are off for any floppy access.  Please check back after you have
    rerun hardware detection with the floppy access enabled.  You should
    be able to check floppy access without going into WIN95.  Try booting
    in directly to safe mode command prompt (I forget the exact wording;
    I don't have WIN95 handy).
    
    Cheers,
    
    /Bill

    Go into the BIOS and clear all the security settings (passwords, user,
    supervisor, etc), then save and exit. On reboot, check the blue
    configuration screen and see if the floppy is ID'ed properly. Then go
    into Win95 and see what's there.
    
    Also, check the User manual for the explanation of the different
    security settings: the  "user" settings in BIOS usually means that 
    the floppy is write protected unless you log on as supervision at boot.
    
    regards,
    
    glen kelley
     

    maybe this is too basic, but the floppy must be connected to the last
    connector on the ribbon cable or it wil not work (with motherboards
    and floppy controllers I have used). Any chance it is simply not
    connected right, so when it doesnt see it it reports the older 5.25
    floppy drive? I did have a system that one time had lost power to the
    floppy...so it thought it was 5.25 when it wasnt, even though BIOS
    settings were for 1.44.  Power OK?
    
    I'd check my BIOS settings for the floppy, watch to see what it
    reported when booting (ie does it even see it, I suspect it doesnt)
    then Id check the cabling. Also..seems to me Ive seen a jumper or two
    on the floppy drives themselves..though Ive never changed one and
    dont know what ther are for. Have you changed them, or looked into what
    they are?
    I'd check the cabling....
                            

    one quick question...... in a previous note you said
    "W95 reports the floppy controller as not working properly"
    
    Why do you not believe it could be a floppy controller problem,
    an actual hardware failure? Or have I missed where you have proven
    this wrong? W95 may be right...the floppy controller is bad...after
    rereading these notes...I almost suspect it is. Am very curious at
    least :)

    The BIOS/CMOS states it is a 3.5" 1.44 mb floppy.  We tried every
    possible connection point with the ribbon cable and replaced the ribbon
    cable as well.  W95 does state the floppy controller is not working or
    installed properly (even after removal and reinstall of the
    controller).
    
    After all our attempts this morning, the system decided to no longer
    bootup.  The hard drive spins up but there are no lights coming on
    anymore.
    
    I called Field Service.  The FS Rep here at MRO said the floppy problem
    was a common one on the Celebris being a logic problem on the Mother
    Board.  He has ordered a new MB, should be coming in a day or two.
    
    Will update after the swap out.  Thanks, Mark

    New Motherboard installed this afternoon.  All is well.  3.5" floppy
    is finally a 3.5" floppy.
    
    Thanks for all the help.  Mark

    re: .129 by USDEV::CLEMENT
    
    >> New Motherboard installed this afternoon.  All is well.  3.5" floppy
    >> is finally a 3.5" floppy.
    
    Hi Mark,
    
    I'm glad you're back up and running.
    
    Side comment: A motherboard swap will usually fix more than motherboard
    problems, including loose or improperly seated memory SIMMs, chips,
    cables etc.  This is not to say that you did not have real problems on
    your motherboard.
    
    Cheers,
    
    /Bill

    Okay, time to pick you brains.  I'm in search of some information
    regarding a BIOS upgrade that came out a couple of years ago.  This
    BIOS was for the Celebris 590 and was a fix for a upper memory problem.
    
    What I'm after is the documention that described the problem/fix and
    what revision of the BIOS fixed it.
    
    I've searched the PCBU WEBpage and the local systems that we we're
    using at that time and the files are gone.
    
    Don't ask, it's a long story.  All I can say is a customer is holding
    up a very large sale based on whether we can supply this information to
    them.
    
    Thanks for your help,
    
    Steven M.
    [email protected]
    DTN:531-4241

    re: .131 by SMOGGY::MIRANDA
    
    I worked on that machine.
    
    There was no fix for an upper memory problem.  Problems encountered by
    customers were due to their need for large amounts of upper memory to
    run legacy DOS applications.  The Phoenix 4.04 Plug and Play bios was
    introduced with this machine thus the perception that this machine had
    a problem.
    
    You can read the bios release notes for the last 4 releases.  See
    http://pcbu.ako.dec.com/ under desktop --> celebris 5xxx.  The list of
    changes/fixes is most extensive under the V2.00 bios since that was a
    major release following the initial product ship at V1.00.  You'll note
    that we did extra work to help out those customers who needed more
    upper memory space.  Look for references to "E segment" and "F segment"
    which are upper memory addresses.
    
    /Bill

    
    Have a Celebris GL5166 running NT 4.0.  It has a ESS1688 sound chip on
    board, however we haven't been able to get NT to see the device. 
    Pulled the latest BIOS and Drivers, nothing.  It is enabled in BIOS.
    The message is basically it can't find the device at the I/O address,
    regardless of the four possible choices, 3, 230, 240, 250, when we try
    and install the sound drivers.
    
    Does anyone have this working, or have any ideas?
    
    Thanks,
    Mike M.

    
    Is a Solgan kinda like a Slogan? ;^)
    

    
    
    Re: .133
    
    I found that the defaults for the sound chip did not match up with NT
    4.0's default settings.  You can check the defaults for the sound chip
    at boot time and then use these in NT with your IRQ choices.
    
    I used:
    
    	Base I/O  220
    	MPU       310
    	Aud DMA   1
    	Aud IRQ	  5
    Playback DMA  5
    Playback IRQ  11
    
         
    Kevin
    
    

    re: Celebris GL & MMX
    
    Hi,
    
    Would someone please tell me whether Celebris GL 5xxx provides MMX
    support or not?
    
    Thanks
    
    /Thien
          

    >Celebris GL 5xxx support MMX?
    
    Well, kind of... theoretically you can get one of Intel's Pentium
    with MMX Upgrade chips (see note 2910.3).  Currently these take a
    regular Pentium75 to MMX125, Pentium90 to MMX150, and Pentium100
    to MMX166.  Support for the "basic" MMX P55C isn't there tho.
    Kratz

    re: <<< Note 570.137 by PCBUOA::KRATZ >>>
    
    Kratz,
    
    Thanks for your reply.  I should have searched outside the "official
    note" before asking.  I forgot about having read that note.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    /Thien

Hi

I have a problem adding memory to a celebris 590.
The system will take two eights and two fours, or three eights,
but it won't take four eights. The 8MB simms are identical, they
all work in various combinations of three, so I know they are ok.
The only problem that I can see is they are SIEMENS chips, and I
have read in here and on the web page that these have caused
problems in the past, which I thought had been fixed.
My bios reports celebris 2.03, and phoenix 4.04.

The sims are siemens edo 60ns hym3220052-60, and came out of a
compac.

any ideas?

cheers
Pete

Well, my Celebris 590 has four 8MB SIMMs - three Digital and a Kingston.  
I suspect it's the EDO that's giving you grief - this system doesn't support
EDO.  While EDO might sometimes be a substitute for FPM, I have seen other
reports where fully-populating an FPM system with EDO memory causes problems.
Try replacing the EDO memory with FPM SIMMs.

				Steve