[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference cookie::hsm

Title:File Shelving
Moderator:COOKIE::HOLSINGER
Created:Mon Mar 15 1993
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:346
Total number of notes:1204

335.0. "Using something other than expiration dates." by CSC32::BSS::SAUL () Tue Apr 22 1997 10:30

Hi,

I have a customer who runs a virus scanning product on their cluster (don't ask me
why).  It evidently touches every file and reads it so the expiration date is
constantly getting updated.  Nothing ever expires so nothing will shelve.  Have you
seen this scenario before or know of a better way around this?  Thanks.

Ted
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
335.1Whats about using the file modification dates ?ATZIS1::KARTNER_MHOUSTON, we have a problemWed Apr 23 1997 01:5410
    Hi Ted!
    
    Whats about using the file modification dates ? Reading the file
    doesn't change the modification date so there should be no
    problem. Worst thing that can happen is that you shelve a file
    that is seldom modified but read very often --> so it will be
    unshelved automatically with the next access
    
    								bye
    								Michael
335.2Can the virus scanner's disks be chosen?EVMS::EVERHARTThu Apr 24 1997 09:3322
    There's one method that will work though it's a shade strange.
    
    IF the customer can get only certain disks to be scanned, have
    him set up remote virtual disk over decnet locally, and have
    it set to inhibit writing from the remote end. It'll lie to the
    client and claim the write was OK but such a disk could be mounted
    /nocache and the virus scanner could see the files and access
    them,but there'd be nothing written to the original disk. A
    similar trick could be used with a VD type virtual disk (or maybe
    with lddriver...haven't looked at that) but this means telling
    the virus scanner to look only at certain disks, namely these
    bogus (and private mounted) versions.
    
    The scanner would still be able to work, but the files would not
    have dates altered.
    
    Freeware cd V3 has the sources for the driver in question.
    
    My understanding of these scanners is they look for PC viruses on
    servers BTW...don't think a vms virus in the wild has ever been
    seen, though a couple lab versions have been created.
    
335.3depends the scanner...COOKIE::HOLSINGERHSM Engineering, DTN 522-2843Fri Apr 25 1997 15:3337
re:                  <<< Note 335.0 by CSC32::BSS::SAUL >>>

> ...touches every file and reads it...

It would be useful to define this phrase more precisely. Since neither of us 
know the complete details of the scanner implementation, I will list some of 
the possible actions and their side effects. 

    1.  When the scanner performs a file access operation, it can obtain the 
	file's attributes. A "sophisticated" scanner would recognize that a 
	file is shelved and omit further processing. 

	I am not aware of any scanners which behave this way today. 

    2.	When the scanner opens a file, the expiration date will be updated 
	when the file is closed, regardless of subsequent operations. This is 
	based upon the disk's volume retention values, and is what you have 
	reported. 

    3.	When the scanner attempts to read file data, a file fault (unshelve) 
	will occur, and all shelved files on the disk will be unshelved as a 
	result (not good). It is possible to disable automatic unshelving by 
	the scanner using set process/NOAUTOUNSHELVE, however, this will return 
	an error to the scanner for each shelved file it encounters. This may 
	either stop the scan, or generate large log file volume (again, 
	not good).

    4.	If you use the modification (revision) date to select files for 
	shelving (as suggested in .1), the fact that the scan updates the 
	files' expiration dates (as in 2.) should not affect the files selected 
	for shelving. This assumes that files are opened read-only, otherwise 
	the modification dates will also be updated by the scan. 

Even if you choose #4, you still have to deal with #3. 

Hope this information helps, 
/Paul