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Conference netcad::hub_mgnt

Title:DEChub/HUBwatch/PROBEwatch CONFERENCE
Notice:Firmware -2, Doc -3, Power -4, HW kits -5, firm load -6&7
Moderator:NETCAD::COLELLADT
Created:Wed Nov 13 1991
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:4455
Total number of notes:16761

3270.0. "Data Comm Slams DS900EF and GIGA/FDDI" by SCASS1::DAVIES (Mark, NPB Sales, Dallas,TX) Mon Feb 12 1996 14:30

    The Feb. 1996 issue of Data Communications has an article in it
    entitled "Canned Heat", by Robert Mandeville and David Newman.
    
    This article tests Ethernet/FDDI and Ethernet/Fast Ethernet switches. 
    They evaluated 9 switches.  The winners were Cisco Catalyst 500, Madge
    LANswitch and 3CON LINKswitch 1000.
    
    The DECswitch 900EF was "slammed into submission" by their tests.  It
    came in last in most tests and received comments such as the following:
    
    "DEC's switches had trouble with loads of all sizes, never delivering
    more than 85% of frames regardless of the offered load, and falling to
    just 22% of frames delivered in the 150% overload test."
    
    I thought we were safe when they started talking about the backbone
    switches, but the "Slammed the GIGAswitch/FDDI" also.
    
    "DEC's GIGAswitch, with per-frame latency of nearly 180 microseconds,
    held onto each frame more than twice as long as the device with the
    lowest latency, Cisco's Catalyst 2800."
    
    BUMMER...
    
    Regards,
    
    Mark
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
3270.1STRWRS::KOCH_PIt never hurts to ask...Mon Feb 12 1996 15:244
    
    I spoke to Dick Lush about this. We have a response to this article and
    when I get a copy of it, it will be posted as a response to this
    string. So, hang on until it's posted...
3270.2Are we PUBLISHING it in the rags?PTOJJD::DANZAKPittsburgher �Tue Feb 13 1996 21:224
    Who cares about a response if it's not PUBLISHED to undo the damage
    that's been done!?  Are we going to PUBLISH it in the rags?
    j
    
3270.3STRWRS::KOCH_PIt never hurts to ask...Wed Feb 14 1996 07:163
    
    This IS being worked on. I recommend PATIENCE and there WILL be a
    response from Digital NPB.
3270.4It's PUBLIC RELATIONS!PTOJJD::DANZAKPittsburgher �Wed Feb 14 1996 08:5915
    As we discussed offline - PREVENTION is the best cure.  This speaks to
    the fact that we do NOT have relationships in key places and that we
    are:
    
     - Not getting active good PR (because nobody cares about us)
     - Always doing damage control (because of no understanding or
       inside help.)
    
    
    This is NOT a game about rationality and reality - it is public
    relationships and sales.  The sooner that we realize that, the more
    we'll win
    
    j
    
3270.5Whoa! whoa let's not get too excited here....NETCAD::BATTERSBYWed Feb 14 1996 09:2915
    Jon, Jon, calm down, take your silly pills or whatever you take
    to become a little more rational. 
    There are many instances where a product will go out to someone
    to test, and alot of times it's found out that the technoweenies doing 
    the testing for the rag don't know hill or beans about how to test the 
    product *properly*. They sometimes have given the rag a song & dance
    about how great their testing facility is etc. etc. Alot of times
    it's found out that the test personnel don't know how to properly
    use the test equipment, or interpret the results. Unfortunately not
    all test labs do as good a job as Scott Bradner typically does.
    Sometime a couple of phone calls usually ferrets out what the 
    mis-understanding is as to what this product is and how to test it
    properly.
    
    Bob
3270.6Data Comm used to be our friendBSS::RIGGENWed Feb 14 1996 13:0512
    Maybe I am a little sensitive towards our products being "Best in
    Class" and when I see a review of our products I usually expect to 
    see at least a middle of the road finish with a couple of strong points
    like "no packet loss". When I saw that we really kicked butt in that
    latency graph I thought "great that Gigaswitch really showed the
    competition". Oh! We blew the Latency test and showed the worst
    performance by a country mile my heart sank. Thinking now I've got to
    pull out those National Enquirer mags along with Data Comm to ask the
    customer what he really believes. 
    
    Jeff
                                  
3270.7Never calm about Digital slams.PTOJJD::DANZAKPittsburgher �Wed Feb 14 1996 22:1717
    re: .5
    
    I will NEVER be calm when somebody slams a product (i.e. my revenue)
    
    I'm paid NOT to be calm about that sort of stuff.
    
    I will NOT be calm until we have better relations (read FRIENDS) in the
    trade rags that take the attitude of "hey, we can't say this about
    Digital!" and give us a heads-up.
    
    For all the talk about the importance of getting along...we seem UNABLE
    to foster friends in the press.  THAT is bad for a marketing
    organization!
    
    (grumble)
    j
    ^---who has to go because the hotel fire alarms just went off...sigh
3270.8STRWRS::KOCH_PIt never hurts to ask...Fri Feb 16 1996 10:317
    
    Stan Kopec has created a DIGITAL CONFIDENTIAL response to give us some
    facts about the article and some responses. I've asked for permission
    to post it as a reply. Sue Kenney has already given the memo wide
    distribution, so hopefully everyone from NPB has seen it already. 
    
    We are still waiting for the customer consumable version. 
3270.9NETCAD::MILLBRANDTanswer mamFri Feb 16 1996 11:212
Guess {engineering} is not a member of set {everybody}
cuz we're still waiting in suspense up here.
3270.10STRWRS::KOCH_PIt never hurts to ask...Fri Feb 16 1996 12:44427
    This is a general distribution memo, so I'm posting it.
    
From:	NAME: Susan Kenney                  
	FUNC: NPB Sales Communications        
	TEL: 226-5081                         <KENNEY.SUSAN@A1GLRMAI@TAY>
To:     See Below (Distribution List Truncated)

TO: WORLDWIDE NPB FIELD ORGANIZATION
CC: NPB INTEREST LIST

*******************************************************************************
THIS NPB SALES FLASH IS FROM STAN KOPEC, NPB MARKETING, 
HUBS/COMPETITIVE ANALYSIS. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT 
STAN AT DELNI::KOPEC OR DTN 226-6404.

THIS MESSAGE IS 9 PRINTED PAGES.
*******************************************************************************

			***Digital Confidential**

The following represents a Digital-NPB evaluation of the February 1996 
Data Communications (DC) switching article entitled "Canned Heat".  This memo 
is Digital Confidential and is intended primarily for Digital NPB employees.

The DC test covered the following main areas of evaluation using either Fast 
Ethernet or FDDI as the high speed backbone or switch interconnect:  
Frame Loss and Per-port Throughput under extremely heavy loads, Head of line 
blocking, Error Handling, and Latency over the backbone.  The testing was 
done at the European Network Laboratory (ENL) by Robert Mandeville.  
David Newman was the test editor.  


Introduction (details in main document)
=======================================
Digital's comparative results were very positive for Per-port Throughput, 
Head of line blocking and Error Handling.  Frame loss and Latency results from 
this test were not as positive and require an in-depth discussion of how these 
switches were tested.  There were also several inaccuracies in the article 
which affect the customer's perception of Digital's switching products.  

This memo will:

	o Correct the stated inaccuracies 
	o Expand the printed discussion of Fast Ethernet vs FDDI in the 
	  backbone to a more complete discussion including all of 
	  the issues that Network Managers should be aware of
	o Comment on particular statements in the article concerning both 
	  Digital and our competitors' products


The main issues which will be addressed include:

Issue: DC statement that GIGAswitch/FDDI had latency up to 180 microseconds.

Sales message: This conclusion is absolutely false.  DC incorrectly interpreted 
the results from their test.  GIGAswitch/FDDI's latency numbers are on
the order of 15 microseconds for switched FDDI packets which is the lowest 
latency among FDDI switches on the market today!


Issue: DC claim that Fast Ethernet is the preferred backbone technology vs FDDI.

Sales message:  Fast Ethernet is certainly a viable backbone technology.
However, Network Managers need to look beyond single-test comparisons such as 
latency (which will be lower than FDDI due to no translation) and consider 
the Reliability, Availability, Standards Compliance, Maturity, Scalability, 
Interoperability and Flexibility of FDDI networks as well.


Issue: DC acknowledgement that more aggressive switch Ethernet controllers 
will result in improved test results.

Sales message:  While more aggressive switch Ethernet controllers may result 
in considerably improved test results, the article acknowledges that this 
would not be a feasible solution in a "heavily loaded production network".  
(page 86 of article)


Issue: Many switches may attain very low frame loss by using backpressure, 
a congestion control mechanism.

Sales message: Backpressure may be used to minimize frame loss however the 
article acknowledges that "There is compelling evidence that backpressure can 
actually hinder performance." (page 92-94 of article).  This can adversely 
affect not only switch throughput, but also attached shared LANs.


Issue: How could overloads occur in a real world network?

Sales message: It is certainly the case that switches in this test were 
severely overloaded in the case results which were published.  However, it is 
not possible to overload a real-world network or switch to the extent depicted 
by this test (150% offered load, fully-meshed, 64 byte only, burst size of up 
to 744 packets) by any example sited in this article.  Furthermore, there 
has been no documentation of such an environment outside of a test laboratory.




GIGAswitch/FDDI latency
=======================
The first issue which must be corrected immediately is the DC statement 
(page 96) that "DEC's GIGAswitch, with per-frame latency of nearly 180 
microseconds...".  This is absolutely false.  DC incorrectly interpreted 
the results from their test.  The GIGAswitch in cut-through mode yields on the 
order of 15 microseconds latency for FDDI switched packets.  The DC test method 
of measuring this latency is FIFO.  This 15 microsecond latency has been 
measured in Digital's lab, and others, and we will be discussing this with Data 
Communications as soon as possible.  

Stephen Saunders, another Data Communications editor, stated in his November 
1995 Data Communications article entitled "FDDI Switches: Immediate Relief 
for Backbones Under Pressure"... 
"When the Gigaswitch/FDDI is running in cut-through mode, the port that
receives a frame transmits it to the destination port as soon as the first
60 bytes of the frame have been received--limiting delay to 15 microseconds,
according to DEC.  Only one other FDDI switch comes close to matching the
Gigaswitch/FDDI in cut-through capabilities: NSC's Enterprise Routing Switch
can be set to start forwarding frames after the first 200 bytes have been
received, keeping latency to between 50 and 60 microseconds, regardless of
frame size."

Another quote from the same article reinforces Digital's customers' acceptance 
and realization of the benefit and effectiveness of the GIGAswitch/FDDI product 
in the most demanding of environments.  "With nine vendors selling FDDI 
switching gear, there's no shortage of equipment to choose from.  Digital 
Equipment Corp. (DEC, Maynard, Mass.) is at the head of the pack; its 
Gigaswitch/FDDI product accounts for 70 percent of all FDDI switches sold."

Finally, in the August 1, 1995 issue of Network Computing, Art Wittman 
(after running a series of performance tests) states "...the GIGAswitch/FDDI 
is truly a marvel and for busy FDDI-based networks, nothing else compares."

Sales Message:  GIGAswitch/FDDI has the lowest latency among FDDI switches 
on the marketplace today, and "nothing else compares" for busy FDDI 
networks.  


Fast Ethernet vs FDDI as a Backbone Solution
============================================
The tone of the "Canned Heat" article strongly pushes Fast Ethernet as the 
preferred backbone technology vs FDDI "for high speed performance with minimum 
frame loss...".   While no one would argue with the statement that 
Ethernet-to-Fast Ethernet switching requires "no conversion... of frames"
and thus will result in slightly lower latency than Ethernet-to-FDDI 
switching, what is more important to most Network Managers is how a 
backbone switch's Performance Scales as more LANs and users are 
added to the switch -- see Throughput and Scalability discussion below.

On the issue of frame loss, this can occur for many reasons but using FDDI vs 
Fast Ethernet as a backbone is NOT the primary factor.  Both technologies 
can handle very high traffic loads.  There are many ways of controlling Frame 
Loss, one of which is the Backpressure method which the authors themselves 
state "...(there is) compelling evidence that backpressure can actually hinder 
performance".  It would be an appropriate question to ask of any customer if,
in real-world situations, it is more important to minimize frame loss and 
receive lower throughput, or to have a minimal amount of packet loss and 
receive higher throughput?"

What is typically more important to Network Managers is Throughput, which is 
summarized on page 90.  This graph places Digital's DECswitch 900EF firmly in 
the same top tier (above 4000 pps) of per-port throughput performers as Cisco, 
Crosscomm, and Madge.  The second tier includes Bay, Fibronics and 3Com.  

Knowledgeable Network Managers who are really comparing Fast Ethernet to FDDI 
as a backbone technology seek out the complete story including the following 
facts about FDDI.

FDDI is a mature, well-understood standard and a widely implemented backbone 
technology that provides innate management (SMT) capabilities as well as:
	-Built-in Fault-Tolerance (Dual Rings)
	-The ability to very easily accomodate any building or campus's 
	 physical characteristics (Ring and/or Tree topologies)
	-Supports a greater extent (up to 100KM ring)
	-Supports dual homing of stations which is an additional unique 
	 capability providing increased Availability

Moving beyond the pure technology discussion, when a Network Manager implements 
one (or several) GIGAswitch/FDDI's and DECswitch 900EF/PEswitch 900TX 
switches, he/she is gaining the benefit of the following very important 
attributes:
	a) Scalability 
		-Each GIGAswitch/FDDI supports up to 34 ports linked with 
		 patented crossbar switch technology
		-Multiple GIGAswitch/FDDI's may be linked together to 
		 provide a larger number of central switched ports
	b) Modularity and Flexibility 
		-Place switches closer to your users/departments when run in 
		 standalone/stackable mode or integrate the same switches into 
		 a DEChub 900MS chassis in wiring closet or computer room
		-Optionally upgrade the 900EF's to IP or Multiprotocol 
		 distributed routing
		-Use lower cost PEswitch 900TX for smaller workgroups 
	c) Availability/fault tolerance
		-Innate characteristics of FDDI mentioned above
		-Redundant power supply option both in-hub or out-of-hub 
	d) Robust switching 
		-Spanning tree supported on all switches
		-8,000 addresses on 900EF, 16,000 on GIGAswitch/FDDI.
		 (Note that performance tests were NOT run with large 
	         numbers of addresses  - as advertised - on the switch.  
		 This negates a distinct advantage that switches which were 
		 designed to support large enterprises and departments have.)
	e) Standards compliance
		-IEEE 802.3, ANSI X3T9, SNMP, SMT
	f) Unique features
		-Priority queues for Spanning Tree and SNMP traffic on 
		 DECswitch 900EF and PEswitch 900TX to ensure a stable and 
		 manageable network
		-Self healing rings and trees as well as automatic reconnection 
		 into backplane FDDI ring upon reinsertion in the 
		 DEChub 900MS backplane
		-Full duplex FDDI supported on all Digital switches in test 
		 providing greater bandwidth
		-Rate limiting feature on DECswitch 900EF/PEswitch 900TX 
		 providing control and management of broadcast storms
		-ARP server capability of GIGAswitch/FDDI which prevents
		 broadcasts ARP requests from flooding the FDDI switched network
		-Low cost SNMP/GUI management (HUBwatch for Windows) 
		 which manages all devices		
	g) Near-future enhanced capabilities with DECswitch 900EF and 
	   GIGAswitch/FDDI working together in synchronization as well as 
	   future switches (see enVISN PID which will be coming out in 
	   March 1996)
		-Multiple Classes of VLAN membership
		-Central policy based administration	
		-Increased security
		-Distributed routing, multilayer switching
		-Scaleable bandwidth
		-Support for new services (e.g. multimedia)
		-Integral RMON		

As far as performance goes, feel free to reference the November 13, 1995
Communications Week article by Ed Mier and Robert Smithers Jr.   Included is
an excerpt from a previous email summarizing the DECswitch 900EF's 
winning performance in a real-world client-server test where 
the FDDI backbone was loaded to a more realistic 90% of load as opposed to the 
non-real-world 100-150% load under ENL's test.  In Mier's performance 
test, Digital's DECswitch 900EF and 3Com's LANplex 2500 tied for best 
overall performance, and "Digital's DECswitch 900EF could consistently pass 
91 percent (of traffic)" for maximum Ethernet packet sizes.

What follows (headed by !) is an excerpt from a November 95 memo 
summarizing some of the important points in the article.  Note that 
unfortunately there was no overlap between the competitors in the two articles; 
however, the benefits of Ethernet-to-FDDI switching and FDDI as a backbone 
technology as well as the performance of the DECswitch 900EF are very 
clearly stated.
Note: The Cisco Catalyst 2800 submitted to Mier was configured as an 
Ethernet-to-FDDI switch while the one submitted to ENL was 
Ethernet-to-Fast Ethernet.

!The DECswitch 900EF was submitted in head to head competition with 5 other 
!switches: 3Com Lanplex 2500, Cisco/GJ Catalyst 2800, Plaintree Waveswitch 100, 
!RAD FEB-4 and SysKonnect SK-NET Switch 6608.  
!
!Test methodology concentrated on the following areas of evaluation:
!	Installation/configuration
!	Ease of use, UI, doc and on-screen help
!	"Basic features" 
!	"Advanced features" 
!	Management and Administration
!	Performance (response times & timed tests for transactions & file xfer)	
!
!The 900EF came in "a close second place" overall to the 3Com box and there 
!are a number of very positive comments throughout the article on the EF in 
!particular.  Cisco/GJ Catalyst 2800 came in 3rd.
!
!Some brief comments on the article...
!
!1) 3Com 2500 was "most expensive", "no auto purging of entries in address 
!   tables when it becomes full but rather floods all new addresses on all 
!   ports"(!)
!
!2) Cisco Catalyst 2800  "drops user data"(!) when the testers injected bad crc 
!   FDDI packets into the mix..., "Windows based management application is 
!   under development but was not ready for testing..."
!
!3) 900EF "has a rich set of filtering capabilities", "no problems handling 
!   errored packets", "EF could consistently pass 91% of Ethernet's maximum 
!   load with max sized packets",...
!
!4) The last line in the article stated "3Com's and Digital's switches stood 
!   just a little taller than the remainder."

Interoperability was also a key focus of the Mier article.  This of 
course is a direct result of the maturity of the technology.  For those 
risk-averse Network Managers, Mier/Smithers noted "...there were no 
interoperability problems between any of the switch combinations."

Sales message:  FDDI-to-FDDI and Ethernet-to-FDDI switching, and in 
particular the GIGAswitch/FDDI and DECswitch 900 family of products, are a 
solid choice for Network Managers interested in Reliability, Availability, 
Standards Compliance, Maturity, Scalability, Interoperability, Flexibility and 
Performance!


Issues to be aware of in the article
====================================

			3Com LANplex 6004 (Page 86)
			---------------------------
"Initially, the unit junked a lot of frames under bursty conditions.  The 
patch 'fixed' the problem by prohibiting other stations from transmitting when 
the LANplex had data to send.  That's OK for the testbed, but try it on a 
heavily loaded network and the number of timeouts will skyrocket as attached 
stations attempt to retransmit data."

Comment: The patch that 3Com supplied helped them receive excellent scores on 
the performance charts however this raises the question of...  Why 
was a vendor allowed to affect the characteristics of their switch's Ethernet 
controller to "become overly aggressive" so that they could do well on the 
tests, even though it would not be a feasible solution in a "heavily loaded 
production network"?   

Sales message:  The important point for the customer to realize is that 
products that are designed or adjusted to pass test suites are not necessarily 
the right choice for "heavily loaded production networks."  Digital's
products are designed with the customer's real-life environment in mind, not 
a theoretical worst case scenario that has never been observed outside of a 
test lab.  To see an example of a test methodology that attempts to emulate a 
real-life environment, see the November 13, 1995 Communications Week article 
entitled "Ethernet-to-FDDI Switches -- Linking LANs".


			Backpressure (Page 92-94)
			-------------------------
"(There is) compelling evidence that backpressure can actually hinder 
performance."

Comment: 3Com LinkSwitch 1000 and Madge LANswitch implement backpressure as 
a congestion control mechanism.  Bottom line, although raising carrier or 
creating an artificial collision on an attached shared LAN that wishes to 
transmit will minimize packet loss THROUGH THE SWITCH as discussed above, it 
will also adversely affect overall throughput through the switch and (perhaps 
more importantly) adversely impact communication between stations on the same 
shared LAN!

In fact, 3Com's LinkSwitch 1000 technical documentation states the following 
warning:  "Note: If you connect repeated segments to the LinkSwitch 1000 and 
the stations on the repeated segments are running a peer-to-peer protocol (for 
example Windows for WorkGroups), we recommend that you disable Intelligent 
Flow Management on the ports to which the repeated segments are connected."
(Intelligent Flow Management is 3Com's Marketing name for Backpressure.)

Sales message: In real-world environments, isn't it more important to get 
higher throughput through the switch with some minimal level of packet loss 
and not affect the attached shared LANs vs using backpressure as a congestion 
control mechanism?


		     Real-world Overloaded networks (Page 92)
		     ----------------------------------------
"In real-world networks, overloads are prone to occur simultaneously on many 
ports (such as when numerous users log in first thing in the morning)."

Comment:  This is a very weak argument for trying to justify (as real-world) 
the 100-150% offered load, bidirectional, fully-meshed, 20x20, 
64-byte only, up-to-744-packet-bursts suites developed for this test.  One 
piece of information that should assist in helping your customer understand 
that this testing environment is non-real-world, is the fact that no one has 
observed or documented any real-world company, real-world application mix, or 
real-world network configuration that would come close to simulating the 
environment described by this testbed.  

Sales Message: Although there are some aspects of the test methodology which 
simulate real-world environments, of what value are the results from a 
NON-real-world case described above?  What exactly is being tested here?  Is 
it not more important to be able to handle an environment where packet sizes 
and bursts are distributed across a realistic range (dependent on the users' 
applications) as opposed to a worst case scenario that has never been 
documented or observed in any other location than a test lab?  
See November 13, 1995 Communications Week for a much more real-world testing 
methodology.



Inaccuracies that need correcting within the article
====================================================

Page 82-83 

	a) Statement: Table stated that Cut-through answer is "no".

	   Correction: 
	   GIGAswitch/FDDI does of course support cut-through switching.
	   It also supports store and forward as an option (settable by user).
	   DECswitch 900EF and PEswitch 900TX are store and forward devices.

	b) Statement: PEswitch 900TX supports 5 Ethernet MAC addresses 

	   Correction:
	   PEswitch 900TX supports a maximum of 64 Ethernet addresses today
	   and will support 96 Ethernet addresses in Q4 FY96.
	
	c) Statement: Shared memory bus architecture

	   Correction: 
	   GIGAswitch/FDDI has a patented crossbar switch matrix backplane.
	   DECswitch 900EF and PEswitch 900TX uses a shared memory approach.

	d) Statement: $37,950 and $20,980 prices

	   Correction:
           The list price as described by footnote #2 on page 82 is:
		$33,380 for 4 DECswitch 900EF with 4 DEHUA-CA
		$17,780 for 4 PEswitch 900TX with 4 DEHUA-CA
	   Note that it looks like DC took this cut at a "common" configuration 
	   because they had so many different vendor configurations.




To Distribution List:

_nm%mkots1::azcona@A1GLRMAI@TAY,
_nm%chefs::collinsm@A1GLRMAI@TAY,
_nm%genie::dincau@A1GLRMAI@TAY,
_Nm%mkots3::friedland@A1GLRMAI@TAY,
_nm%delni::gayowski@A1GLRMAI@TAY,
_nm%cgooa::goldsmith@A1GLRMAI@TAY,
_nm%delni::jscott@A1GLRMAI@TAY,
_nm%stkhlm::klarsson@A1GLRMAI@TAY,
_nm%warder::purnellr@A1GLRMAI@TAY,

Distribution List Truncated

3270.11customer version of response?RDMCS3::STUARTScott Stuart - NPB SE - 410.315.9954Wed Feb 21 1996 17:357
    I need a var and customer version of the response.
    Any reason we cannot give out the response posted above?
    If yes, please edit it down so we can give it to customers.  there is
    not a customer in any competitive situation who had not seen this
    article from multiple vendors by now.
    
    ...scott
3270.12Scott, contact Stan.....NETCAD::BATTERSBYWed Feb 21 1996 17:527
    Scott, please contact Stan Kopec *directly* with regards to
    your questions of the memo posted in note 3270.10.
    As you can see, it is marked ***Digital Confidential***
    Stan can be reached at DELNI::KOPEC or DTN 226-6404.
    
    thanks,
    Bob
3270.13DELNI::KOPECWed Feb 21 1996 20:3730
Scott, 

Both Marketing and Public Relations are aware of the article and the need for 
ammunition to help respond to it.  The first step was to get the 
***Digital Confidential*** NPB response out to our field folks.

There are at least two followon issues which you raise here though:
	(1) What do we do for Partners?
	(2) What do we do for End Users?

On the Partners question, we should rely on the excellent business knowledge 
and relationships that our NPB field folks have with our Partners to decide 
how the information/response in 3270.10 gets shared with them.  A couple of 
possibilities include:
	(a) internalizing the messages and responses and using those messages 
	    during Partner meetings/joint Sales opportunities
	(b) bringing the actual response to a Partner meeting to use as an 
	    outline in order to discuss the results, but not leaving the hard 
	    copy response with them

On the End User question, we are also actively working that issue, and all we 
ask is that you be patient.  Certainly, as a first step, following the 
suggestion in (a) above will work for end users as well, but (b) is not 
appropriate.  The answer to the End User issue is more sensitive and we are 
working to do the right thing here - it will take longer however.

If you have a hot deal where (a) does not work and you need more assistance,
feel free to call.

					Thanks, Stan
3270.14Customer version to be used selectivelyDELNI::KOPECWed Feb 28 1996 16:4527
What follows is the pointer to the *Customer version* of the official NPB 
response to the February 1996 "Canned Heat" article in Data Communications.
Since this is a customer consumable document, the format is only in POSTSCRIPT 
format.  

Please note that this is *NOT* to be used as a 'blanket' piece of collateral 
to be mass distributed.  It should only be used selectively to aid in the 
Sales process with those customers who, in your judgement, have a need to 
understand Digital's stance on the above article.

It is of course also appropriate for Authorized Partners.

		NAC::LENAC_USER:[NETWORKS.HUB.COMP]DC_CUST.PS

Note that reprints of the Network Computing (Art Wittman) and Data 
Communications (Stephen Saunders) articles referenced in this report are 
already in stock.  Reprints of the Communications Week (Ed Mier) article will 
be in stock soon.  All reprints are available via the   $ VTX LOS   system.

Part number	Author
-----------	------
EC-Y5673-42	Wittman
EC-Y5970-42	Saunders
EC-Y6398-42	Mier     (will be available soon)

					Stan 
				
3270.15But why the high packet loss?NETRIX::&quot;[email protected]&quot;Murray PennoSun Mar 17 1996 22:0419
Hi,

I have been talking with a customer who is concerned abou the "Canned Heat"
article and the possible implications on his network.  I have given him the 
rebuttal document and discussed many of the issues.

He is pretty happy except that he wants to know why the switchs seem to lose
so many packets at "a potential real world load" of 70%.

Do we not have enough buffering? Is the CPU running out of steam?

Can someone answer this please?

Thanks for any help

regards

Murray  
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]
3270.16STRWRS::KOCH_PIt never hurts to ask...Sun Mar 17 1996 23:0911
    
    I'm sure others will answer, but what "switch" loses packets at 70%
    real world load?
    
    The question is what's a real world load? All ports trying to switch to
    a single station on a single port?
    
    The fact that if an FDDI is fully loaded and tries to deliver all its
    packets to six Ethernets and packets will get lost?
    
    What problem is the customer trying to solve?