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Conference netcad::hub_mgnt

Title:DEChub/HUBwatch/PROBEwatch CONFERENCE
Notice:Firmware -2, Doc -3, Power -4, HW kits -5, firm load -6&7
Moderator:NETCAD::COLELLADT
Created:Wed Nov 13 1991
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:4455
Total number of notes:16761

2675.0. "VLAN packets and routers" by DPDMAI::DAVIES (Mark, SCA Area Network Consultant) Thu Aug 24 1995 11:12

    I need a brief tutorial on VLAN implementation methods.  Tell me if I
    am even close on tne following assumptions/ideas.
    
    Class 2 & 3 VLANs can be scattered across the network, whereas Class 1
    VLANs are inside of a DEChub 900.  With the ability of Class 2 & 3 to 
    have "Wide Area VLANs" (WAVLANs...), this will require that each packet
    be "tagged" and then shipped off via a router to the target VLAN.
    
    If the above is correct, now my questions:
    
    1. Will the tagging of these data/broadcast packets occur only in a
       switch, such as a DECswitch 900?
    
    2. Can any router tansmit these packets to the target site, ie, will it
       require a RouteAbout router or vcan existing DECNIS routers do this?
    
    My customer has 100's of DECNIS 600s, and he wants to know how they
    will support VLANs.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mark
    
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2675.1VLANsSNOFS1::KHOOJEANNIESun Aug 27 1995 22:2022
    Mark, I don't know the answers to all of your questions, but ...
    
    As I understand it, the concepts of Class 1, 2 and 3 VLANs do not
    imply anything about location - i.e. you can have any class of VLAN
    within a hub or across multiple hubs.
    
    The Class 1 VLAN simply means that the VLAN is defined based on
    physical location/port (as per the PORTswitch and the current version of the
    DECswitch 400).
    
    There are various schemes proposed as to how VLANs will be
    identified, including tagging each packet and use of a protocol between
    switches to communicate about VLAN membership.  (e.g. the DECswitch
    400 uses frame tagging.)
    
    Digital is active in the 802.1 committee to standardise VLAN
    implementation (and to lobby against Cisco's move to use the 802.10
    security standard for VLANs instead).
    
    Regards
    Jeannie
    (Tech Support, Networks Australia)
2675.2More on VLAN StandardisationSNOFS1::KHOOJEANNIEHumpty Dumpty was pushedSun Sep 03 1995 21:4784
    ============================================================================
    SUBJECT:  VIRTUAL LAN VENDORS FEUD OVER PROTOCOLS
    SOURCE:   InfoWorld Publishing Company via First! by Individual, Inc.
    DATE:     August 30, 1995
    INDEX:    [1]
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
      InfoWorld via First! : A skirmish is brewing between network vendors
    trying to establish protocol standards for the next generation of
    virtual LANs.
    
      Virtual LANs (VLANs) are becoming popular among corporate users
    because they allow efficient traffic separation, provide better utilization of
    bandwidth, and alleviate scaling problems by logically segmenting LANs
    into subnetworks, so that packets are switched only within the same VLAN.
    
      But vendors supplying VLAN equipment are trying to settle on one
    protocol to ensure VLAN interoperability across diverse products.
    
     Thus far, most of that work has focused on a proposed 802.10 standard,
    backed by Cisco Systems Inc., that calls for routers to arbitrate
    interoperability across VLANs.
    
      But vendors such as Cabletron Systems Inc. and 3Com Corp. are pushing
    for a solution that would resolve interoperability at the 802.10 level, in
    equipment such as switches and hubs.
    
      The most distinctive feature of the 802.10 standard is both its major
    strength and its principal weakness.  Called frame tagging, the feature
    scans packet addresses before sending packets to their proper
    destinations.
    
    This is especially important for security in metropolitan-area LANs,
    where users have a higher stake in ensuring that their network traffic
    doesn't get misdirected.
    
      "The frame-tagging mechanism is the most significant step we can take
    toward VLAN interoperability," said Tony Moraros, product manager for
    Cisco's International Operating Standard division.
    
      On the opposite side are those who question the efficiency of 802.10
    for the average VLAN, which typically has less stringent security needs.
    
    Wade Appelman, director of advanced products for Cabletron, said frame
    tagging is too slow and unnecessary for the typical VLAN.  He added
    that 802.10 doesn't offer an adequate method for tracking system use and
    cost, features that users would expect if they abandoned their telephone
    systems for VLAN communication.
    
      "Cisco should be applauded for their efforts, but it's important to
    remember that VLAN standardization is still in its infancy," Appelman
    said.
    
      3Com was less charitable toward the proposed standard.
    
      "802.10 is absolutely inadequate for people's needs; it's a security
    standard, not a VLAN standard," said Andy Gottlieb, director of LAN
    internetworking for 3Com.
    
      This disparity of opinions is the biggest obstacle to establishing a
    single protocol, according to analysts.
    
      "A more fundamental issue than 802.10 is trying to agree on what a
    VLAN is," said K. Karl Shimada, vice president of Rising Star Research, in
    Lakewood, Colo.  "It sounds trivial, but over two and a half hours at a
    standards meeting [in July], with 80 people in the room, we couldn't
    even agree on what a VLAN is."
         
      He said it was important to define and standardize VLANs soon,
    because Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM) LAN emulation vendors will probably
    adopt some of those standards into their own protocol development, making it
    easier for users to migrate to ATM later.
    
      But a major part of the problem in implementing a new standard is
    that some VLAN requirements haven't yet been fully identified, said Michael
    Howard, an analyst with Infonetics Research Inc., in San Jose, Calif.
    
      Compounding those issues are plain old politics.
    
      "802.10 is Cisco's scheme," Howard said.  "The other vendors don't
    want to be seen as just tagging along."
    
    [08-30-95 at 15:10 EDT, Copyright 1995, InfoWorld, File: x0830002.4di]