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Conference netcad::hub_mgnt

Title:DEChub/HUBwatch/PROBEwatch CONFERENCE
Notice:Firmware -2, Doc -3, Power -4, HW kits -5, firm load -6&7
Moderator:NETCAD::COLELLADT
Created:Wed Nov 13 1991
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:4455
Total number of notes:16761

1869.0. "IP Multicast and PE Switch" by ANNECY::AEO369::RENAUDEAU () Wed Jan 11 1995 04:46

        I'm working on a presales opportunity for a customer who requires
to be able to display on Multia screens 1 or 2 images coming from a server
having up to 8 cameras. There are 20 Multias X-Windows and each one must be able
to select 1 or 2 "films" among the 8. The films will be MPEG or M-JPEG
compressed, and each one has a throughput estimated to be around 6 Mbps, thus
the aggregate throughput using normal UDP/IP would exceed 240 Mbps !!!

        Therefore, the best solution, in terms of network efficiency,  would be
to connect the server on FDDI and to associate to each film an IP multicast
address on FDDI. This way, the server would send 8 UDP/IP datas, with an
aggregate throughput of 48 Mbps. FDDI attachment of Multias on FDDI is not
possible, as their only PCI slot is used by an MPEG video card. The Multias
would be connected on a PE Switch via the native Ethernet plus a second
PCMCIA/Ethernet card (one Eth. per image).
  
                        +--------------+
                        | Image Server |  (AlphaServer 2100 + FDDI card + video)
                        +------+-------+
                FDDI           |
                --------+------+------------------------+-------
                        |v    Multicasts IP 1 to 8     v|
                  +-----+-----+                   +-----+-----+
                  | PE Switch |                   | PE SWitch |
                  +-+-+-+-+-+-+                   +-+-+-+-+-+-+
                   2|4|5|2|1|8    Multicast IP n�   |3|7|2|1|7
                   3|6|6|1| |7       et n�          |1|5| | |3
         Multia ----+ | | | |                       | | | | +---- Multia
         ...... ------+ . . |                       | . . +------ ......
         Multia ------------+                       +------------ Multia


The PE Switch must filter the IP multicast, and switch to each Ethernet only the
required multicast (because only 1 multicast will use 6 Mbps !!!).

This is fine, but the problems are :

 1 - Is the PE Switch able to filter IP multicast adresses so that it will
        switch only one of them to each Ethernet ?

 2 - How can the PE switch be setup to do that ? Is it possible for the Multia
        user to select the film i.e. the multicast address to be transferred to
        the screen ?

 3 -If this is not a standard feature of the PE switch, is there any possiblity
        to change the PE switch internal code and re-engineer it to support
        this functionality ?

 4 - If multicast is supported, is it compliant to RFC 1112/1188/1390 ? If the
        PE switch does not handle multicast, do you see any other alternative ?

 5 - For an other part of the customer RFP, question is : can the PE sitch
        filtering parameters be modified from an application ?

 6 - Do you know if the PE switch will evolve to include more filtering/routing
        features ? Which ones and when ?
    
 7 - Can the DECswitch filter not only the multicast address but also on the IP
        port address ? The goal here is to multicast navigation datas to various
        subnets and only put on a given subnet multicasts that are sent to a
        given port address if this port number is present on the subnet.

 8 - Pointers to the PEswitch and DECswitch internals and configuration set-up
        and filtering/bridging capabilities details are more than welcome...


        Sorry for so many questions... Thanks a lot in advance.


                                        Herv�.
  
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1869.1Not what you want to hear.CGOS01::DMARLOWEHave you been HUBbed lately?Wed Jan 11 1995 10:1846

> 1 - Is the PE Switch able to filter IP multicast adresses so that it will
>        switch only one of them to each Ethernet ?

    No.  It is a MAC layer device only.
    
> 2 - How can the PE switch be setup to do that ? Is it possible for the Multia
>        user to select the film i.e. the multicast address to be transferred to
>        the screen ?

    If each Multia has a different MAC address, which it should, then
    trasferring to a hardware address will work.
    
> 3 -If this is not a standard feature of the PE switch, is there any possiblity
>        to change the PE switch internal code and re-engineer it to support
>        this functionality ?

    The DECswitch 900EF will support routing in about 6 months as an add on
    to the present switching (bridging).
    
> 4 - If multicast is supported, is it compliant to RFC 1112/1188/1390 ? If the
>        PE switch does not handle multicast, do you see any other alternative ?

    DECNIS or third party.
    
> 5 - For an other part of the customer RFP, question is : can the PE sitch
>        filtering parameters be modified from an application ?

    The application would have to transfer parameters to an SNMP management
    application which would in turn do the changes.
    
> 6 - Do you know if the PE switch will evolve to include more filtering/routing
>        features ? Which ones and when ?
 
    Don't think routing will ever be added to the PEswitch.  This is
    supposed to be a low cost device.
    
> 7 - Can the DECswitch filter not only the multicast address but also on the IP
>        port address ?
    
    Normally multicast addresses go everywhere.  However you can set MAC
    layer filters on ports but depending on the addressing you may cutoff
    nodes.
    
    dave
1869.2Trying to better understand...ANNECY::AEO369::RENAUDEAUWed Jan 11 1995 11:0629
Thanks for your answer, Dave. I'm not sure I understand your reply, let me try
to better understand what you mean...

 1) As an example, the IP multicast address 224.255.0.2 maps to the FDDI group  
    address 01-00-5E-7F-00-02; when bit-reversed for transmission in the FDDI 	
    destination MAC address field it becomes 80-00-7A-FE-00-40 which is sent 	
    over the ring.
    The PE-Switch receives frames with this MAC dest. add; if properly set-up
    through SNMP commands, is the PES able to send this frame to Ethernet ports
    2-5-6 ? This requires that the PE switch translates/sends several copies of 
    the same FDDI frame to Eth.ports 2-5-6.
	
 2) To set-up the PES to do the above, the Multia application will have to      
    transfer parameters to an SNMP management application which would in turn 
    modify the PES parameters accordingly. Is it right ? Is it possible to have
    several Multias running both applications doing this to ask 1 PES to switch 
    the 80-00-7A-FE-00-40 to their own Ethernet port ?

 3) Filtering on multicast + port
   >>>  Normally multicast addresses go everywhere.  However you can set MAC
   >>>  layer filters on ports but depending on the addressing you may cutoff 
   >>>  nodes.

	Can the MAC layer filters be set on ports on the PES and DECSwitch ?	
	What do you mean by "cutoff nodes" ? 


Herv�.

1869.3Some more answersNETCAD::KRISHNAWed Jan 11 1995 18:5860
    Hi,
      Let me try and answer some of your questions...
    
    >> 1) As an example, the IP multicast address 224.255.0.2 maps to the 
    >> FDDI group  
    >> address 01-00-5E-7F-00-02; when bit-reversed for transmission in the 
    >> FDDI   
    >> destination MAC address field it becomes 80-00-7A-FE-00-40 which is
    >> sent over the ring.
    >> The PE-Switch receives frames with this MAC dest. add; if properly
    >> set-up
    >> through SNMP commands, is the PES able to send this frame to
    >> Ethernet ports
    >> 2-5-6 ? This requires that the PE switch translates/sends several
    >> copies of 
    >> the same FDDI frame to Eth.ports 2-5-6.
    
    Normally when the PES receives a multicast frame it is flooded to all
    the other ports. It is possible to set a filter on a multicast address
    that restricts the port set over which the frame would be sent. Yes the
    PES will translate/send several copies of the same FDDI frame to Eth.
    ports 2-5-6
    
    >>  2) To set-up the PES to do the above, the Multia application will have
    >>  to      
    >>  transfer parameters to an SNMP management application which would
    >>   in turn 
    >>  modify the PES parameters accordingly. Is it right ? Is it possible
    >>  to have
    >>  several Multias running both applications doing this to ask 1 PES
    >>  to switch 
    >>  the 80-00-7A-FE-00-40 to their own Ethernet port ?
    
    Basically to set up a filter on the PES you have to send an SNMp set
    command to add the multicast address filter. You can either build
    the SNMP command within your own application or use another application
    to do the set. If you have multiple applications accessing the same
    PES and setting the filter for the same multicast address, then you
    can easily come up with race conditions where one application could
    overwrite the filter set by another.
    
    >> 3) Filtering on multicast + port
    >>   >>>  Normally multicast addresses go everywhere.  However you can
    >>        set MAC
    >>   >>>  layer filters on ports but depending on the addressing you may
    >>        cutoff 
    >>   >>>  nodes.
    
    >>        Can the MAC layer filters be set on ports on the PES and
    >>        DECSwitch ?    
    >>        What do you mean by "cutoff nodes" ? 
    
     I don't understand what you mean by setting mac layer filters on
    ports. In the PES we allow you to set filter on addresses, where you
    can specify on which ports you want to allow these addresses on and on
    which ports you want to filter them.
    
    Hope this helps,
    Krishna