Conference 7.286::atarist

    Like Brian, I am also interested in Mag!X. I have read about the
    advantages/disadvantages of MutiTos compared with Geneva but I have
    never seen any real comparison against Mag!X.
    
    Norman

    Hello, 
    
    I am using Mag!X since some months now and for the moment can't think
    of a better operating system for the Atari. 
    
    Mag!X offers real, preemptive multitasking on every ST/TT machine
    (falcon support ist still lacking), at a speed even a bit higher than
    normal TOS 1.04/2.06, and considerably higher than MultiTOS. The system
    is very compatible to TOS, even critical software runs in singletasking
    mode with few exceptions. 
    
    You can (and should) use NVDI with Mag!X, as this VDI replacement still
    improves the performance of Mag!X. It is possible to run Mag!X even on
    a 8 MHz machine without performance problems, but you should have at
    least 2 MB (better 4) of RAM to really run programs simultaneously.
    Accessories, if you need them at all, can also be started as programs
    even without rebooting, so you can save a certain amount of memory. TOS
    programs run in windows using a VT52 emulator program that comes with
    Mag!X. 
    
    Selecting the foreground task is done either by clicking at a window of 
    the desired application, by selecting a menu item or by a key combination,
    there is a task manager i which you can display, freeze, unfreeze or delete
    tasks. The process of taskswitching can be configured by selcting a
    timeslice and assigning priorities to background processes. The whole
    multitasking gives a very fast and fluent impression. 
    
    I use Mag!X with a desktop replacement called EASE, that delivers a lot
    of improvements over the TOS desktop. Because the latter uses several
    undocumented interfaces to GEMDOS/VDI/AES, it cannot be used with
    Mag!X, so you can either use EASE or the supplied Magxdesk that comes
    with the package. Magxdesk is recommended is you run short on memory.
    
    As I stated above, Mag!X is quite a lot faster than MultiTOS in its
    current release (MinT 1.0.8), and still some faster than the current
    beta release on MinT 1.0.9. 
    
    Still missing in Mag!X is support of external file systems (e.g.
    minix.xfs, etc.) and pipes. These features, at least pipes, will be 
    included in the upcoming Mag!X version 2.5 (I saw a beta version
    running on a TT - neat).
    
    Mag!X runs on the most ST accelerator boards without problems; I had it
    running first on a PAK2 with 68020/16 MHz and use it on my PAK3 with 
    68030/32 MHz now and know of a lot of people successfully using different
    accelerator boards with it.
    
    And, Norman, my current CoNnect version 2.45e/beta runs completely in
    background under Mag!X ...
    
    The german distributor for Mag!X is Application Systems Heidelberg, 
    Phone -49 6221 300002. I can provide the complete address if desired.
    
    I'd recommend purchasing Mag!X/EASE yesterday rather than today :-)
    
    Regards, 
    
      Peter.
    
    

    I forgot, there was an article in the german computer magazine c't
    comparing Mag!X to MultiTOS three or four months ago. 

    OK Peter, I am pretty well sold on Mag!X - yes, I would like the
    complete address please. Do you now the price in Marks or Pounds?
    
    I run NeoDesk all of the time - would I have to throw this away :-( ?
    Is Mag!X compatable with NeoDesk :-) ?
    
    I have an STe with 4Mb and a 105Mb hard disk - I guess Mag!X will run
    Ok then.
    
    Norman

    Hello Norman,
    
    sorry, I forgot to take the address to the office - this weekend caused
    some amnesia. The FAX number of ASH is +49 6221 300389. I don't know
    whether they sell into the US but I'm pretty sure they can tell you
    who does. 
    
    I never used Neodesk, but if it is still on the market there is a good
    chance that it either runs on Mag!X or that there is an Update that
    does.
    
    > I have an STe with 4Mb and a 105Mb hard disk - I guess Mag!X will run
    > Ok then.
    
    It will.
    
    Regards, 
    
      Peter.  

    
      Thanks for the information Peter, (I'll need to read it again
    to take it all in!)  
      I agree with Norman, sounds like a must-have.
      
    
    Best Regards,
    Brian
                                    

    The address of ASH (german distributor for Mag!X, Pure C etc.) is
    
      Application Systems Heidelberg
      Software GmbH
      Postfach 102646
      D-69016 Heidelberg
    
      Tel. +49 6221 300002
      Fax  +49 6221 300389
    
    As I stated before, I don't know whether they deliver outside Germany
    (don't think so) but I'm quite sure they can give you a information who
    does. 
    
    Regards, 
    
      Peter.

    
     I've just received the current issue of 'Atari ST User' magazine,
    and coincidently it contains a review (very favourable) of Mag!x 2.0
    Details of a UK supplier are given as:
    		
    				System Solutions
    				Windsor Business Centre
    				Vansittart Road
    				Windsor SL4 1SE
    
    				Tel: 0753 832212
    
    and the price is given as 69.95ukp.
    
    Best Regards,
    Brian
     

    
    just to add some facts to Peter's statements about Mag!X/EASE:
    
    The disk I/O-performance increased so dramatically, that using GEMAR
    for my backup the tape does stream the whole 150 MB without interrupts.
    
    I used to have TOS 2.05 in my STe, with desktops like Neodesk and other
    tools to make work more convenient. My major concern before buying
    Mag!X was the fact that it has to be loaded into memory rather than
    running off the ROM. Well, after installing all my accessories and
    auto-folder programs I had previously (and it's a lot of TSRs running
    in the background like the driver for the CD-ROM, 19" monitor driver etc) 
    I still had 2.8 MB free on my 4 MB machine. That was more than I had with 
    TOS 2.05 together with Neodesk and my old configuration. But now there is 
    real preemptive multitasking and a realy good desktop - way better than
    neodesk! Meanwhile (after almost 9 years of Atari computing) I found
    my perfect setup. That is: Mag!X, EASE, NVDI, Kobold for
    copying/formatting/deleting (it may be called by EASE instead of the
    built-in routines) which gives the fastest disk operation I have ever
    seen on Atari.
    
    Bernd
    
    

    re .8
    
    Brian, I should have guessed that it would be supplied by Systems
    Solutions. That's where I bought my hard disk and NVDI. The price of
    69.95 (pounds sterling) for MAG!X has not yet been set in concrete.
    They, of course, sell CoNnect and XBOOT as well.
    Karl Brandt, one of the Systems Solutions partners is German. My
    contact their (didn't give his name) said they were still working on
    translating the English manual for MAG!X.
    
    Norman
    
    Norman

    re .9
    
    Bernd, Looks like I will have to throw away (give away NeoDesk. :'-(
    In talking to someone at Systems Solutions toady, he said that there
    were some good programs that worked with MAG!X but he could not/would
    not tell me anymore. When I mentioned EASE and Kolbold he replied, well
    you already are aware of these programs (I am now). It appears that
    EASE is the replacement Desktop and Kobold the file handling (I/O)
    software. I now have an idea how much MAG!X will cost; any idea how
    much EASE and Kobold is (pounds or DM)?
    
    Norman

    
    Norman,
    
    Mag!X and EASE are sold in a package called "Mag!X World" and comes for
    129.- DM from Application Systems Heidelberg. The actual versions are
    Mag!x 2.0, EASE 3.0 (NVDI 2.5).
    Kobold is not from the same producer, but EASE is prepared for Kobold
    and has a option to use Kobold as the replacement for the built-in I/O-
    routines. I think I payed about 80.- DM for it. When set up as the 
    replacement for I/O in EASE, Kobold takes over File-Copying,
    File-Moving, File-Delete and Formatting (with unbeliveable speed!). The
    formatting section gives you the chance to set up almost all formats,
    including DOS-compatible and up to 2.88 MB. Kobold does not take over
    all I/O-routines, like when a program loads a file from the disk. This
    still is the job of Mag!X. So Kobold is designed to take over
    I/O-operations which you manually start from the desktop - things that
    were usually done by the desktop before. When you start Kobold manually 
    from the desktop, you may also write scripts that make disk reorganisation
    and backups.
    
    For applications working with Mag!X: every application that was
    programmed according to the GEM standards works ok with Mag!X. I did
    not have a problem so far because I already was bound to such programs
    because of my 19" monitor. TOS-programs will run in a 24*80 character
    window (like STZIP, LHARC etc), a perfect solution because you can
    unpack zipped files in the background while being connected to a BBS
    with CoNnect reading mails as one example. So, when you use programs
    which use real GEM windows rather than writing directly onto the
    screen, than you won't have problems. With Mag!X comes a tool to limit
    the memory consumption of some programs (like Wordplus which takes all
    the memory it can get). With this tool you patch the program to e.g.
    1024 kB, and from now on Wordplus only takes 1 MB of your main memory
    which frees enough space for other programs to run in parallel.
    
    I can't tell you anything about color programs (I don't have the
    monitor). The only thing I know is that Mag!X/EASE supports color
    in resolutions of at least 640*480, interesting for graphics cards and 
    big screens... The standard low-res and mid-res of Atari: I don't know.
    
    Bernd
    
    

    Bernd, 
    
    the price for the MagiX!-World package from ASH is 149.- DM, to be
    verified on Page 2 of ST-Computer 2/1994. Maybe 129.- DM is the "Power
    User"-price they use to take from people who have bought one of their
    more expensive products like Pure C, Phoenix or so.
    
    When you like to create own desktop icons too, you can get a program
    called Icon Constructor with MagiX!-World, which raises the total cost
    to 199.- DM. In my opinion these prices are rekmarkable low for high 
    quality software like that.
    
    Regards, 
    
      Peter.

    re .12
    
    Bernd, Many thanks for the reply. All I need now is lots of DM's or
    even pounds sterling would do (or gold bars). :-)
    
    Norman.

    
     Thanks from me too for all the information.
    I called Systems Solutions and asked if they would be bundling
    'Ease' with Mag!X, and also about 'Kobold'. They say that they
    will be handling all of these, although not necessarily bundled
    as a package, and I understand that 'Mag!X' is being fully translated
    into English before being made available, so they couldn't really
    give a definite date other than 'end of March' at present.
    
    I was tempted to try and obtain the package direct from Germany,
    but on second thoughts I have decided to wait untill the 'UK versions'
    are available, so untill then I'll just need to be patient.
    I've been told that 'Cubase', with its own 'MROS' operating system,
    will not run under MaG!X, but that Steinberg are working with Behne
    in trying to make this happen. This is not a great problem for me
    however as I would be running 'Cubase', with it's in-built modules,
    in stand-alone mode anyway.
    
    Like Norman, all I need now are the pounds sterling :-)
    
    Best Regards,
    Brian
    
    

    
     System Solutions have announced a special introductory offer on
    'Mag!X'. For orders 'placed now', the price is 49.95 ukp, saving
     20ukp on the normal price which they say will be 69.95 ukp.
     System Solutions e-mail address is [email protected]
    
     Best Regards,
     Brian
    
    

    Brian,
    
    I phoned System Soltions yesterday. The first comment was 'no it is not
    for sale yet'!! The second comment after me pressing them was ' what
    computer have you got'. Finally I got the answer 'give your details and
    we will let you know when it is available. OK I replied, when will it
    be available, Answer, end of March beggining of April - he did not say
    which year. :-). Anyway, I am on the list
    
    Regards, Norman

    
    I hope ssolutions confirmed that you are eligible for the 'introductory
    offer' discount, Norman - sounds as if whoever you spoke to was perhaps
    having an 'off' day, I find they are usually very forthcoming and helpfull
    with information :-)
    As a possible replacement desktop to go with 'MaG!X', I have been
    looking at the shareware package 'Gemini 2', and I am very impressed -
    it seems very powerfull, and IMHO well worth a look.
    
    Best Regards,
    Brian
     

    
    included in Mag!X there is a patch to run Gemini V2 as desktop. Gemini
    indeed is very good! But actually there seems to be no need for it 
    because Mag!X World comes with the desktop EASE wich is especially
    designed for the use with Mag!X. The CLI isn't that good, tho, it's
    just a VT52 ;-) but the rest offers some very good features too.
    
    Bernd
    
    

    Hello Bernd, 
    
    as far as my understanding of Gemini goes (not very far :-) ), the
    patch is only needed for Gemini version 1.21. You don't have to patch
    Gemini 1.99 to run with MagiX!.
    
    MagiX! is not always sold together with EASE. For example, there is no
    current EASE in english language. When you buy MagiX! from sources
    other than Application Systems Heidelberg, it is probable that you
    don't get EASE with it. 
    
    Reagrds, 
    
      Peter.

    
     I have received my copy of 'MaG!X' and plan to set it up in my
    ST this week. In next month's issue of 'Atari ST Review' there is
    to be a feature on Multitasking and a full review of 'MaG!X' and
    something about 'Mag!X World' too. Also, on the cover disk, there
    is to be a special working demo version of 'Kobold'.
    
    Brian :-)
    

    re .21
    
    MaG!X arrives tomorrow. Thanks again Brian for the files you sent on
    disk. Peter Eckel are you reading this:-) Who knows, we may get KOBOLD
    & EASE this year;-)
    
    Norman

    Hello Norman, 
    
    yes, I'm reading. And I'm happy to hear that finally the english
    versions are ready, as I'm sure some of the current (few :-( ) Atari
    owners will stop thinking about selling their machines when they have a
    look at it. It is for sure the better TOS :-)
    
    Good luck with EASE/KOBOLD - they make MagiX! even faster and better than 
    it is ...
    
    Regards, 
    
      Peter.

    Hello, 
    
    just to avoid confusion - due to a trademark problem, MagiX! will be
    called MagiC! in the future.
    
    Regards, 
    
      Peter.

    Ok, my setup now has NVDI (had this for some time), Mag!X (now called
    MagiC), Ease & Kobold (recent additions). I am still learning about the
    functionality of these products :-). I also use CoNnect V2.46e (using
    right now). Another addition to my software library is INTERFACE2.
    The bad news is that both INTERFACE2 (purchased from COMPO) and EASE
    (purchased from System Solutions) do not have any English
    documentation. Both products were sold to me on the basis that the
    English documemtation would be sent within the week (didn't say which
    year :-( ). I have now waited several weeks and still do not have any
    documentation. Both companies have been contacted; System Solutions are
    saying that the German supllier has let them down!!; COMPO are saying
    that someone at the exhibition misunderstood the situation when he
    told you that the English documentation would be with you within the
    week (HA). They also said that they had no idea when the documentation
    for INTERFACE2 would be available; this is being translated by Peter
    West.
    
    A question (if you have read this far :-) ) - I am, at a very slow
    pace, attempting to program with 'C' on the Atari 520STe; I have the
    Mag!X header (.H) file supplied but the library file also supplied is
    specifically for Pure C, I have Prospero C, will I have problems
    programming cleanly and taking advantage of Mag!X? Will I have to
    purchase Pure C?
    
    Norman.

    re .25
    
    I should have said TURBO C not PURE C with regard to MAGX.H
    
    Norman

    Hi Norman,
    
    	As far as I understand it from discussions on CIX, the
    English documentation for MagiC is still in preparation, and
    Systems Solutions are saying that they will be sending them
    out by mail when ready.
    	If I may, I'll ask your question re. Prospero C/Turbo C/MagiC
    on CIX, and post any response here.
    
    	I have to say that I have not really used MagiC in any depth
    since getting my Falcon, but the Falcon version is apparantly
    to be released 'soon'. In the meantime, I'm also interested in
    a soon-to-be-released Falcon specific package called 'DEXtrous'
    which, as far as I can gather, is a multitasking environment
    with many enhancements to desktop and file/directory manipulation
    features.
    
    Brian 
    

    Re .27
    
    Hello Brian,
    
    I have an English manual for Mag!X (now MagiC); the problem was with
    EASE and INTERFACE2. I have been promised an English manual for
    INTERFACE2 by the end of this month - this year :-). Still no date for
    the EASE manual.
    
    BTW, I have just joined CIX - stay tuned I will probably need some
    help. I will enter this in a new note. Do you have the fully fledged
    CIXOLR etc?
    
    Norman

    Hi Norman,
    
    	Oops, I made a typo - it was actually 'Ease' I was referring
    to re. English manual, not MagiC, i.e. the English manual for
    Ease is still in preparation - sorry for any confusion caused.
    
    	Welcome to CIX! I have the full registered CIXComm/CIXComm OLR
    package, and I can help you locate the PD version which you can
    download from CIX and register if you like it.
    
    Brian
    

    Hello Brian,
    
    Your oops makes sense :-).
    I have the PD version of CIXOLR - you supplied it :-)). What I need is
    some simple driving instructions to get me started without spending
    lots of time = money, dialled in. Also, what is the best/quickest way
    to obtain the full registered CIXComm/CIXComm OLR?
    
    Norman

    
    Hi Norman,
    
    	I asked about Prospero C and the consensus was that you should
    not have any problems , but someone who has a lot of experience
    in programming recommends 'Lattice C'. Apparantly there are some
    things which Prospero C will not be able to do (CPXs for example)
    and he says that 'Prospero is fundamentally equivalent to Lattice
    C v3.03 (give or take some odds and ends)'
    	Hope this is of some interest, perhaps you can progress this
    yourself soon on CIX.
    
       I'll mail you re. the CIX OLR, perhaps we could start a
     new topic here re. CIX - would anyone else be interested in this?
    
    
    Brian :-)
    

    Brian, Thanxs for your reply.
    
    The problem is that I paid out 40 pounds for the Prospero manuals having
    got the software free on a cover disk (also later got KRESOURCE on a
    cover disk).
    I have recently seen Lattice C V 5.52 (I think) - these numbers are too
    close to VMS :-)) - for 40 pounds (includes manuals as well). I haven't
    got endless amounts of money and it will mean basically throwing away
    Prospero or trying to sell it.
    
    I have found that ASH (in Heidelberg) are likely to be coming up with
    Pure C version 2 later this year - the contact commented that there
    would not be an English manual.
    
    I guess if I want to be serious about this (programming that is :-) )
    then it has got to be Lattice C or Pure C. Anyone else reading this who
    may wish to comment.
    
    Norman