Conference 7.286::atarist

    Well.... I won't be buying one!
    
    I think the Falcon has been too long in coming - many people have got
    fed up and bought a PC instead. The original edge of the ST range - the
    built in MIDI and wealth of music software - is no longer an edge.
    Sound cards for pc's and mac's are cheap and most of the big software
    titles are available on more than just the st platform.
    
    The Atari scene seems to have gone stale - the Falcon even looks like a
    1985 micro with its built in keyboard. True it is still much cheaper
    than a pc or mac but pc's have turned a corner recently where very
    powerful systems have become reasonably affordable, especially as large
    companies are turning over so many of them now.
    
    Personally I don't see Falcon as anything more than a niche-market for
    die hard Atari fans, which is a bit of a shame.
    
    Tony I

    Re: .1
    
    I'm in agreement with Tony (sadly).  As far as the US goes, dealers
    have only started delivering systems within the last month or so,
    which would explain why there's been no mentions in here!
    
    Dealers are selling the machine for list right now, that's $1300 for
    the 4 meg version with an 80 meg drive and the AtariWorks bundle.  Then
    you still have to buy a $30 widget to hook up a terminal!  Compare that
    to Mac and DOS machines around the same price.  The *only* arguments
    for the Falcon today:  
    
    	1. Cheapest direct-to-disk digital audio recording solution
    
    	2. Will run some (most?) ST software, so if your ST is about to
    	   die...
    
    I'm going to take a look at a Falcon, but I wouldn't buy one until
    (if!!) one of the following happens:
    
    	1. Prices drop below $1000
    
    	2. Some huge amount of new software hits local dealer shelves
    
    							Brian

    
    	I plan to buy a Falcon for use as a direct to disk recording
    platform for Steinberg Cubase Audio, using my existing SCSI hard disks
    (as my present understanding is that the Falcons in-build 60 Meg disk
    drive would not offer sufficient capacity for significant recording
    times.) I will probably wait until early next year before doing so
    however; I read in the current issue of "Atari Explorer On-Line" that
    Atari have "clearly indicated that there will be successors to the
    Falcon30".
    	My main proposed use being concerned with direct to disk recording,
    I would be very interested to see a comparitive listing of platform
    prices, i.e. the cost, excluding hard disks, of direct to disk
    recording for Falcon30, PC, MAC, etc., with comparitive specs.
    I am afraid I am not too familiar with PCs and MACs; do they have
    built-in SCSI interfaces as standard?
    	I would also echo .0 and be very interested to hear from anyone
    who currently owns a Falcon.
    Best Regards,
    Brian
    

I'm really not certain that I want to buy a Falcon. What I really want
is a color laptop system but Atari doesn't make those. :-(

It is hard to consider loosing my investment in great software in order
to switch to another platform though. Sigh. What to do? For now I expect
I'll just try to add memory to my ST. But even there I have to wonder
if the investment is worth it. This all really stinks though because I
really like the ST's design base!

I bought my ST years ago because while working on the VAXmate I came to
really hate Intel's segmented memory architecture. I still do. Plus
the Intel PCs just are to unstable. I'd have to update my system hardware
every year just to keep using my software as it upgrades. The Macs are
are just plain overpriced although they do use a good CPU chip. :-)
And the Amigas are in the same boat as Atari systems, little or no
support or software. I see no clear choices.

I sure wish Atari would come out with a Falcon laptop having a memory
max of 64Mb. Now THAT would be a system I could use for a few years
without it getting obsolete real quick! Dream on eh?

Dan

    
    
    Hi collegues ,
    
    
    Any ideas about the FALCON 040 Arrivals ....
    
    
    Pat.

    
    From what I've read and heard, Atari will neither confirm or deny a
    "Falcon 40", in keeping with their apparently new philosophy of
    not discussing unreleased products. I read in the current issue of
    Atari Explorer On Line that projected "prototypes" of new products
    exist, and that it is expected that users "will be pleased" with the
    results.
    	I think Atari are waiting untill the Autumn pre-Christmas season,
    when they will release a flood of advertising and media campaigns
    publicising Jaguar and Falcon, while at the same time releasing a
    large number of Falcon30s on the "Multi-Media Platform" tag, with
    concurrent release of the Jaguar in the US and then Europe.
    I think Atari will then re-assess their position and the market before
    making any significant announcement regarding another machine, but I
    do not think that involvement with IBM manufacturing is a "one-off".
    
    Brian
    

    OK, I finally schlepped down to the local dealer (Kurlan's, a music
    store in Worcester, MA) and got  a brief Falcon demo.  Here's some
    impressions:
    
    1. The price is $1299 list, the dealer said that Atari's dealer price
    leaves them zero room to discount.  Take that with a grain of salt.
    
    2. All machines are now shipping with the full SW bundle (Works, D2D,
    some games and DAs).
    
    3.  Some machines are still arriving with 65MB drives!  Atari has told
    this dealer that they cannot guarantee 80MB drives, if you get one,
    great, you got 15MB for free.  !!!!!?????  Talk about manufacturing QC,
    they can't decide what kind of drive to put in the box?
    
    4. The CRT adapter plugs are $15, this guy throws them in free
    because he can't justify asking the customer to pay for it.
    
    5. High res on an Atari color tube is useless, interlacing makes it
    extremely tiresome to use.  Either get a mono tube or SVGA if you want
    anything over ST medium res.
    
    6. The D2D program was *very* impressive.  I was unaware that it
    supports sound-on sound overdubs *and* includes an effect processor
    (reverb, chorus, flange) and allows cut and paste editing.  Not really
    a pro-featured program but *very* usable for the home recordist
    especially since it's free with the machine.  This program has me
    sorely tempted!
    
    7. Atari Works worked OK, but it didn't have the polished look of
    WordPerfect or other big bucks programs.  I'll take it for free, but
    sheesh, this is the best they could do after all the delays?
    
    My bottom line: Zero interest for anyone without a ton of ST software
    already.  Still a toss up whether Atari will drop the machine the day
    after I buy one  8^)  8^)
    
    							Brian

For an extra $101, ($1400 that is) I'll double your clock speed and sell you my TT.

    
    Re. .3, I've had a look around and I can't find anything that offers
    the same sound/midi potential as the Falcon30 at a similar price.
    
    Brian
    

    Re: .9
    
    It looks like MIDI and digital audio will remain Atari's last
    stronghold.  I was on the phone yesterday with the folks at Toad; they
    recently had demos of Cubase Audio in the store and got *lots* of
    interest.
    
    I just wish the general purpose software situation would improve a bit,
    because MIDI is only one thing I use my STs for.
    
    I recently did some Mac and clone shopping (out of desperation over SW) 
    and didn't see anything to convince me that the hardware was really
    much superior.  Toad apparently has 386SX emulator boards in stock
    (they said $275, I think) and it supports Windows...that sounds
    tempting.
    
    							Brian

   I have pretty much left the ST world myself.  I just bought
a pc clone.  I only still use my ST for running Notator Logic
which will be available for the PC.  Notator Lite seems
to be available now.  Cubase is available now for the PC, but
I believe it lags the ST version on features. I thought about 
a Falcon but I think it's too little way too late.  For $3000 
I got a 486DX266 machine with 16 megs ram, 425 meg hard disk, 
2x CD ROM, 15" monitor, accelerated local bus video with 2 meg
of RAM so it can run at 1024x768 non interlaced, all sorts
of software including spreadsheet, wordprocessor, database, 
desktop publishing and money management.  And I can expand the
memory to 64 megs.  I just need a multi port MIDI interface on
my PC now, and to get notator logic for it, and the ST goes 
up for sale.

bill powers

    I thought there might possibly one or two souls out there who'd find
    this interesting news.
    
    Dan
    
    Article 84754 (1398 more) in comp.sys.atari.st:
    From: Gordie Meyer  ATARI UNITED  cofounder <[email protected]>
    Subject: Re: Falcon030 Goes Mail-Order!
    Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 01:13:06 -0500
    Organization: Delphi ([email protected] email, 800-695-4005 voice)
    Lines: 22
    NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com
    X-To: Steve Johnson <[email protected]>
    
    Steve Johnson <[email protected]> writes:
    
    >For what it's worth, Atari Corp. has lifted the 'NO MAIL ORDER'
    >restriction for dealers carrying the Falcon030, so they are now
    
    
    According to Bob Brodie, there is a new addendum to the dealer
    agreement that
    allows them the option of selling Falcons by mail order, with the
    provision
    that they may only use list prices in any ads they run.  Dealers must
    sign on
    for this, however, and agree to the advertised price restriction before
    they
    can go mail order.
    
    Realizing that over 75% of all computers sold today are sold via mail
    order,
    Atari decided it would serve the consumer better if the Falcon030 was
    available
    that way, too.  Essentially, the new addendum removes the requirement
    that a
    dealer get clearance to sell to a customer who doesn't actually visit
    their
    store.  Whether this move will increase the numbers of dealers, or just
    help
    boost the sales of the existing dealers is yet to be seen.  But, it
    does
    make it easier to buy a Falcon here in North America.
    
    --Gordie Meyer
      [email protected]
    

    
    I bought a Falcon30 last week, and I'm very pleased with it. 
    The configuration I bought was a machine with no hard disk as I
    am using disks which were previously in use with my ST, and with
    only one megabyte memory which I removed. I have installed 4MB which
    I also already had. I also got 'Blowup II' to connect the machine
    to my 15" SVGA multisync monitor, which gives a good range of
    resolutions. My plans are to upgrade to Cubase Audio towards the
    end of this year.
    
    Brian :-)
    

    
     Atari have 'licensed Falcon Technology' to C-Lab who are
    planning a 'Music Workstation', according to a news item
    I read recently.
    
    Brian
    

    
     I've just taken delivery of Cubase Audio Falcon v2.0, and although
    there is a lot of 'manual reading' ahead, I've had a play with it
    and I'm extremely impressed.
    
    Brian :-)
    

    
     A look at current adverts from dealers indicate that Falcon prices
    have been generally reduced by 100ukp in the UK.
    
    Brian
    

    
    >A look at current adverts from dealers indicate that Falcon prices
    >have been generally reduced by 100ukp in the UK.
    
      Hmmmm.... things may be looking up, I have to admit to have been
    seriously considering getting PC, even though as a computer they
    don't really 'excite' me.  (It seems to me that to do a lot of what
    the Falcon [or even my STe] does as standard, you need to buy a fair
    bit of kit).
    
      If prices are dropping, then it may be time to reconsider.  My
    original problem with a Falcon, was its apparent cost.  If the prices
    are coming down, it would give me room to buy stuff like an accelerator
    for example.
    
      This said, the problem of support still hangs in the air, I would not
    be impressed if Atari suddenly decided to dump it.  I know there's a
    wealth of PD, and other 3rd Parties.
    
    Time to get my scales out, and my think hat on.
    
    James.
    
    P.S.
    	Anyone out there have experience with PC Emulators on the Falcon?
    (Hardware or Software).
     
                           

    Hi James,
    
     The UK price of 399ukp for the Falcon is apparantly for a machine
    with no hard disk and only one megabyte of memory, i.e a very basic
    configuration. There is not a lot that can be done with only 1MB
    (especially in the colour modes), so another 50ukp approx. would
    perhaps need to be considered for an unpopulated memory expansion
    board such as 'Falcon Wing' (which accepts standard 30-pin SIMMS),
    and then in addition to this, the cost of the required SIMMS.
    An SVGA multisync monitor and a screen resolution enhancer (e.g.
    'BlowUp' or 'Screenblaster') to get the best out of the screen
    display may be desirable, and adds another 70ukp approx., and
    an external SCSI disk would also be required.
     The cost can mount up, so although 399 for the 'basic' model
    looks very attractive, the 'real' cost can be in the region
    of 600ukp with the addition of the 'extras', which does not
    include the cost of a VGA/SVGA/multisync monitor (although the
    Falcon will run with traditional Atari monitors).
    It is also quite important to make sure that the supplied machine
    is fitted with TOS 4.04 as earlier Falcon TOS versions apparantly
    have bugs.
     Some people I know have elected to go for the TT instead of the
    Falcon, I think the criteria they had in mind was the application
    they would be running on the machine. My own particular application
    is 'Cubase Audio', and IMHO the Falcon is ideally suited for direct
    to disk audio recording.
    
     Atari are now heavily into Games Consoles (Sega have bought a slice
    of the company) and the general outlook regarding 'computer support'
    from Atari is therefore not good at present, and there is much debate
    as to whether Atari will actually release another 'computer'.
    Development and support has been largely left to third party companies,
    who are still supporting this area well.
    
     There are PC emulators available but not having used one, I am not
    sure how effective they are. There is supposed to be a 386 emulator
    in the offing, but I understand that this has been in development
    for a long time.
     There is also a Software PC Emulator called 'PCSoft' which was
    developed for Atari by a company called Insignia, but as I understand
    it Atari did not proceed with that particular plan and the emulator
    may appear soon as shareware - I believe negotiations are currently
    taking place regarding this.
    
    Brian
    

    
    
      Thanks for the reply Brian, I have agree with you on the price
    front.  Since I would still consider �600 pounds to be a fairly
    good bargain, there is still the small matter of a monitor, which
    would tend to hike the price somewhat.  Maybe I'll wait and see what
    happens, and just buy a hard drive for my ST, so that if I do upgrade
    the HD can go with me.
    
      With Atari signing the deal with Sega, I think you're right about
    Atari losing interest in the 'real compuer' (no offence intended)
    market.  It looks almost as though they're going back to their roots
    (as many do, when the going gets tough.)  Still there are a fair ol'
    3rd party people continuing to produce things.
    
    James. 

    
     There is a product about to be released called 'DEXTrous' for the
    Falcon, and is a 'replacement' multi-tasking operating system which
    claims to have lots of features and speed improvements. I'm hoping to
    see a demo at a forthcoming Atari show, together with more new
    third-party products.
     I see Atari have now apparantly teamed up with another company
    in the developement and manufacture of a Virtual Reality Helmet,
    expected to retail at prices conflictingly reported as being
    in the range between 75 and 250ukp (quite a wide fluctuation in
    forecasts :-)
    
    Brian
     

    
     It was announced at the London Atari show last weekend that
    'C-Lab' are producing the 'Falcon Mark II', which is apparantly
    to be followed by their '40 version of the machine.
     'C-Lab' are a German company who produce midi sequencing software
    and as I understand it the 'Falcon Mark II' has proffessional
    audio circuitry and is to be supplied initially in two different
    casing configurations - an entry level, 'inexpensive' model cased
    in the traditional ST type case (like the present Falcon) and a
    rack-mounted version with external keyboard.
    
    Brian