Conference 7.286::atarist

    Funny you should ask, we were talking about that very thing in the
    office this morning. What we dont know for sure, but believe exists 
    somewhere is a VMS utility to write DOS style diskettes, but I looked
    some time ago in the on-line PC archieves, and didnt find anything. 
    
    We would also be grateful if a VMS (PVax) guru can shed some light on
    the RX33 on the 3100 and how it can be used.!
    
    Thanks
    
    Pat Keane.

    Do you mean the RX23, the one with the ATARI type disk. Not sure how it
    is used though.
    
    Richard

I've never done this, but:

The program you need is PCDISK, and it comes as part of VAXPC.
MOSAIC::VAXPC conference has some of the details.  Also see
WRKSYS::WS_PC_SOLUTIONS.  I don't know for sure if you can format 720K
floppies with VAXPC, but if you use the IBMFMT utility (available from
the NaVAUS PD library) you can format the floppies on the ST.

If you can't find the VAXPC kit, I think I still have a copy that I got
from BRUTAL::.  I suspect the PCDISK portion of the kit won't require
any special PAK, as the PC emulator portion does.  I don't think I have
the manuals, however, so you will have to hunt through the conference(s)
to find them.

VAXPC kit and documentation details:
Let us know how you make out.
               <<< MOSAIC::$2$DUA8:[NOTES$LIBRARY]VAXPC.NOTE;2 >>>
                     -< VAXpc - DOS Software Coprocessor >-
================================================================================
Note 151.11                Kit is not available - why?                  11 of 11
MOSAIC::SPRUNG                                         1 line  20-NOV-1989 17:28
                         -< location change (sort of) >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can now access the kit on BRUTAL"VAXPCKIT"::*.*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PRNSYS> dir brutal"VAXPCKIT"::*.*

Directory BRUTAL"VAXPCKIT"::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[KITS.VAXPCV10]

VAXPC.PAK;3               4  10-MAY-1989 15:38:47.00  (RWED,RWED,RE,R)
VAXPC010.A;4           4176  21-APR-1989 12:30:46.00  (RWED,RWED,RE,RE)
VAXPCFTPAK.COM;2   no privilege for attempted operation
VAXPC_INSTALL.SAVE;1
                   no privilege for attempted operation
VAXPC_INSTALL_GUIDE.PS;1
                        313   5-APR-1989 10:51:24.00  (RWED,RWED,RE,R)
VAXPC_INSTALL_GUIDE.TJL;1
                   no privilege for attempted operation
VAXPC_REL_NOTES.PS;2
                        186   5-APR-1989 14:11:40.00  (RWED,RWED,RE,R)
VAXPC_USER.SAVE;1  no privilege for attempted operation
VAXPC_USER_GUIDE.DECW$BOOK;1
                        766  18-APR-1989 13:26:22.00  (RWED,RWED,RE,R)
VAXPC_USER_GUIDE.DECW$BOOKSHELF;1
                          1  18-APR-1989 13:26:29.00  (RWED,RWED,RE,R)
VAXPC_USER_GUIDE.PS;1
                       3100  18-APR-1989 13:26:04.00  (RWED,RWED,RE,R)

Total of 11 files, 17397 blocks.

    BTW:
    
    PCDISK is also included in VMS Services for MS-DOS V2.2 and later.
    
    --Ed

    Thanks for your help but I have no privs to build this software.
    If you could supply me with a simple runnable .EXE and a few instructions
    to offload the vax software onto an IBM formatted disk I would be most
    pleased.

You can copy and run PCDISK.EXE from SYS$SYSTEM: of any system that has
this software installed, without the need for privs.  Hint:  I have it
installed in PRNSYS.  There is also a help file in
SYS$HELP:PCDISKHLP.HLB.  You may have to

	$ DEFINE SYS$HELP SYS$LOGIN:,SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSHLP]

in order to read the help file from within PCDISK.

You don't need privs to get the VAXPC manuals from BRUTAL::, and print
them locally.

To use PCDISK to actually read an write physical floppies, you need
some level of elevated privs, I think LOGIO or PHYIO.  Perhaps it would
be possible to ACL the device to you, so you could do what you wanted
with the device without elevated privs.

    Hi Ray,
    
    We have just used PCdisk for a related job. A colleague of mine bought
    a DEMO of a sharedealing prog for a PC, Unfortunately it came on 3.5
    inch disk. He has only got 5.25 in on his PC. SO... he asked me to load
    it into VMS using my ATARI ST and uploaded it over the wire.  He could
    then down load it over the wire to his PC at home. 
    
    Whilst we had it on the system we thought we give VAXPC and PCdisk a
    try. so we loaded the files including the BINARY exe into a pseudo hard
    disk on the VAX workstation using PCDISK. WE installed and ran VAXPC,
    and successfully loaded THE EXE of the DEMO. (It ran up to where it
    asked for floppy disk 2!, we havnt got round this problem yet!), but it
    certainly wasnt corrupt.
    
    BTW I think VAXPC is even slower than PCDITTO!, but PCDISK does seem to
    have great possibilities! (If you have a floppy on your work station). 
    
    Regards
    
    Patrick Keane. 

    Ray,
      Your help note looks terrific but this is what I get when I attempt 
    to copy PCDISK*:
    
    %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening OLDTMR::DISK$USER8:[WALLACE.PUBLIC]PCDISK*.*;
    as input
    -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for
    operation
    
    Any ideas?  Thanks.
    ...Howard
    
    
    
            

    hi there,
    		 Thanks for pcdisk I've tried it on a text IBM 3.5 disk, and it
    works just fine. There is a small error when trying to copy the files.
    Use $1$dua8: instead of disk$user8: probably its a logical thats not
    set system wide. I would be interested if the binary file problem could
    be cracked.

The original version of this note gave the wrong disks name, sorry. Also I
have made some changes/corrections to the information about binary transfers.

Here is a little more info on PCDISK. What I present here is only what I've
been able to figure by using PCDISK. I have not yet obtained a copy of the
documentation but the help command is sufficiant for most things.

THE FILES:
	PCDISK.EXE
	PCDISK.HLB		!Normaly belongs in SYS$HELP:
	PCDISKSHR.EXE		!Normaly belongs in SYS$SHARE:
	PCDISK.COM		!Definitions to allow putting all files in
				!your own directory (not SYS$HELP/SYS$SHARE)

All of these files can be copied from OLDTMR::$1$DUA8:[WALLACE.PUBLIC]


INSTALLING:
Either include the contents of PCDISK.COM in your LOGIN.COM or execute it
directly before useing PCDISK. In either case you will need to edit PCDISK.COM
to change the disk and directory names to be those where you keep your PCDISK
files (ie: global replace USER2:[WALLACE.TOOLS] with your device:[dir]).

The three lines in the .COM file define the PCDISK command as well as
re-defining SYS$SHARE and SYS$HELP to work with PCDISK.

USING PCDISK:
I used PCDISK from an account with the SETPRV priveledge so had no problems
with priveleges. 

Here is a commented session with PCDISK (assumes DUA2: is your RX23/33
floppy) -
	$ dismount dua2:	! Make sure dua2 is not mounted
	$ pcdisk		! Starts the PCDISK program
	pcdisk>			! This is the default PCDISK prompt
	pcdisk> use b: dua2: /write	! REQUIRED! assigns DOS drive letter
					! b: to the VMS disk dua2:, also
					! causes dua2: to be mounted/foreign
	b:\>				! The new PCDISK prompt shows dev/dir
	b:\> help			! Normal VMS help facility for PCDISK
		.....
	b:\> import [dir.subdir]file.ext b:	! Import VMS file onto DOS disk
	b:\> dir b:			! Directory of floppy
	b:\> del file.ext		! Delete file from floppy
	b:\> export b:file.ext [dir.subdir]	! Export DOS file to VMS dir.
	b:\> exit			! Dismounts dua2: and exits PCDISK


LIMITATION:
Importing binary files (I tried variable length 510 byte .ARC file) to the
floppy using PCDISK and reading/using the binary files on the ST works fine.

What does not work with binary files is Exporting files from the floppy onto a
VMS disk (ie: you can't move a binary file from the ST to the VAX). I have
tried Exporting binary files which were written to the floppy by the ST and
also binary files which were written to the floppy by PCDISK itself. Both
cases generate a corrupt binary file on the VMS disk.

Note that text files work fine (both ways) with PCDISK.

One minor quirk is with the import command, if you use wild cards any VMS file
with a file name which is not a valid DOS file name (file name to long, etc..)
will be ignored (ie:not copied). I don't know if they are silently ignored or
if you are informed of the problem.


SUMMARY:
PCDISK is great for moving files (text and binary) from VAX/VMS to the
ST. I have not successfully been able to use PCDISK to transfer binary files
from the ST to VAX/VMS. If anyone figures out how to do this please let us
know. 

	Ray

Well I took a look at the PCDISK documentation (a chapter in the VAXPC doc)
and it is realy useless. Useless to the extent that it does say anthing more
than what you get from the built in help. Even the error message section is
pretty useless, for a description of an error message it just rewords the
error message slightly. I don't mean to cut down the documentation as much as
I mean to indicate that it is not worth printing out this large postscript
document. I could not get the book reader version of the document working as
it seemed to be missing a file.

	Ray

Last night I successfully transfered a few dozen files (about 300kb worth)
including text, arc, and zoo files from the VAX to the ST using PCDISK. In
doing so I found another glitch in PCDISK.

The glitch is when you use wild cards to import files (thats going to the
floppy) all files must have the same record attributes (not the same length).
If not PCDISK will report an error when it comes to a file which has a
different record attribute than the previous ones and then stops copying
files. No harm is done and the file it errored on will transfer fine if you
import it by itself.

I have a .COM file which checks a file or files (it takes a file name which
can have wild cards) to insure that they are all the same type and converts
the ones which are need to be converted. If anyone is interested in this .COM
file let me know and I will clean it up and make it available.

	Ray

    A couple of points:
    1. When I thought I'd written a file to the disk and did "directory"
    command it showed the file was there. However the disk was write
    protected and sure enough the file was'nt there. It seems you have
    to go out of pcdisk and back in to find what you really have on
    the disk.
    2. I copied SEDT and Uniterm to the disk but when I tried to run
    on the ST I got TOS Error 35. Any ideas?
    3. I copied IBMFMT.TOS from VMS to RX24 and ran on the ST. Floppy
    B span and seemed to format but I just tried the disk here at work
    and I got:
    
     PCDISK> use b: dua2: /write
    %PCDISK-E-ECONNECT, Error connecting drive B: as DUA2:
    -MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format
    PCDISK>
    
    Has anyone used this program successfully? If so how?
    
    Finally yes Ray I would like your .COM file you mention in .14.
    Also I think you've done a good job for all us 3100 "owners" who
    are users rather than programmers. Thanks very much.
    
    ...Howard
    
    

    >2. I copied SEDT and Uniterm to the disk but when I tried to run
    >   on the ST I got TOS Error 35. Any ideas?
        
    Tos error 35 appears when you are running a incompatable version
    of the operating system. No ideas how to get around it though!
    
    Sorry!
    
    Lewis.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.  TOS error 35 is just a catch-all error code that
usually means that the image is broken.  I suspect that if you were to
CVTARC the files into STREAM_LF form, that they would transfer more
easily.  We might need to write a CVTARC that generates FIX 512 files.

My first rule of thumb when transfering BINARY files between systems using any
means (modem, pc's, 3100's,etc..) is to ALWAYS use ARC (or ZOO) files. So
don't extract files on the VAX before moving them to the ST AND if they are
not already in an archive put them there before transfering. I am sure there
people who can successfully transfer .TOS, .PRG, etc.. files, all I'm
saying is I get MUCH better results (more consistantly error free) when
transfering binaries in an archive, and you probably will also.

I've successfully used PCDISK to transfer .ARC files in both Variable 510 and
Stream_lf record formats. These formats are produced by "CVTARC V" and 
"CVTARC U" respectfully (among other programs).

I mentioned earlier that PCDISK will skip importing any files with names
longer than 8 characters or extensions longer than 3 (ie: illegal DOS file
names). It turns out that PCDISK does NOT tell you when it skips one of these
files. So I will modify my command file to check for (and possibly truncate)
file names which are not legal DOS names.

	Ray

To create a disk on the ST suitable for using with PCDISK, first format the
disk normally and then run IBMFMT on the formatted disk. I've never used
IBMFMT but I beleive all it does is modify the serial number area on the disk,
it does not actualy format the disk. If that does not work then get a copy of
DCFORMAT and use its feature for modifying an ST formatted disk to make it
MSDOS compatible. DCFORMAT is what I use.

	Ray

I use IBMFMT on raw empty disks all the time.

Perhaps I have a different IBMFMT?

    Using "ARC" files solved the problem. 
    IBMFMT I found is good only if you have a double suded disk in drive
    A. I have single sided in "A" and double sided in "B". I used "PS2FORM"
    to format on drive B and this seems to work OK. I just copied something
    onto the disk and it went OK. PS2FORM is available from:
     
    CMOTEC::$1$DUA1:[JAMES.ATARI]PS2FORM.ARC.
    
    Heh Heh Heh. And to think my mangler thought I had this 3100 for
    work!!!
    
    ...Howard

    Hi there,
    i am using PCDITTO and i have some problems to create an IBM-Bootable
    Disk. I tried IBMFMT, DCFORMAT, but if i try to start this created disk
    PCDITTo say's "Non system disk, pse try another one".
    Of course, on the disk is Command.com and all other stuff, but 2 files
    are missing, which normaly the Formatprogram creates:
    IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS
    Can anyone help me?
    Best regards....
    Rolf
    SUOSW4::SURAUF
    

    FORMAT doesn't create IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS; it just pretends to.  Those
    are the actual MSDOS monitor and generic-BIOS programs, and they must
    be present on the  MSDOS system disk from which FORMAT is run for the
    FORMAT command to copy them; actually, it's the SYS command that does
    it (and is invoked by a FORMAT switch).
    
    If you don't have MSDOS, you can't create it from thin air.  You need a
    working MSDOS first.  They're hidden files so you might not even know
    they're there, but some utilities show hidden files.
       fred

    Thanks for the information, Fred.
    73
    Rolf
    

    Re: .17
    
    Well a game that gave this error worked perfectly ok with the
    new version of the OS !
    
    Lewis.

As stated in .12 and as Howard just found when trying to copy some Ham Radio
programs to the VAX, PCDISK corrupts binary files when it exports them from
your DOS/ST disk to the VAX/VMS disk.

The only way I know so far to get around this problem is to UUEncode binary
files on the ST before using PCDISK to copy them to the VAX. I have not
actualy tried this (I just now thought of :-) but it should work since it
looks like PCDISK does not mangle text files when you export/"upload".

If you need a copy of UUEncode for the ST you can get it from -
	OLDTMR::$1$DUA8:[WALLACE.PUBLIC.ST]UUENCODE.TTP
UUDecode (and UUEncode) for the VAX are in -
	OLDTMR::$1$DUA8:[WALLACE.PUBLIC]

	Ray

    Well I think I've finally done it. Thanks Ray for the pointer. Here's
    how.
    1. Format a disk on the ST using (in my case) PS2FORM.
    2. ARC the files using ARC.ttp.
    3. UUENCODE the ARCed file using UUENCODE.TTP copied from Jeff's
    account. Check it decodes properly using UUDECODE.ttp again from
    Jeff.
    4. Bring file to work, use PCDISK to put into VMS account. Use
    UUDECODE.EXE to decode back to ARC. Now VMSSWEEP will unarc it
    properly.
    
    I used Jeff's UUENCODE/UUDECODE because I got errors with Rays.
    Please give my results a try. They are in 
    CMOTEC::$1$DUA1:[JAMES.ATARI.RADIO]
    
    ...Howard
    

The reason you got errors with the UUEncode and UUDecode in my directory on
OLDTMR is that they create .ARC files that are suitable for use with ARC not
VMSSWEEP. Of course "CVT V file.UUE" will make them useable by VMSSWEEP.

	Ray

A little while ago I mentioned that I had a .COM file which did the
preprocessing necessary for downloading files with PCDISK. The file
(CONVERT.COM) is now available in OLDTMR::$1$DUA8:[WALLACE.PUBLIC.ST]

CONVERT.COM takes a file name specification (including wild cards) as an
argument. It will check the files record type of all the files and run
CVTARC.EXE on them if they are not STREAM_LF (if you don't have CVTARC it is
located in the same directory). The record format could easily be changed if
you don't want STREAM_LF for some reason.

CONVERT.COM also checks file name lengths and lets you specify a new name if
the file name of any file is to long.

There  is no documentation (and no comments in the file) so if you have any
questions about using it or suggestions for improoving it, please let me know.

	Ray

    
    	As anybody used PCDISK with VAXstation 3100 M38 ?
    	The floppy is DKA500: .
    	I can export ASCI file from 720k floppy to VMS,
    	but cannot import ASCI file from VMS to 720K floppy.
    	Both work OK with 1.4M floopy.
    
    	Any help ?
    

What exactly happens when you try to do the import? Do you get a file but it
is corrupt in some way?

	Ray

    
    After the command import,there is no drive activity,no message.
    If I do DIR ,I see the filename as if it has been writen,
    but if i disconnect drive a: (use a:/del) and reconnect it
    (use a: dka500:/write) and do DIR the file name disapear.
    I just try the same PCDISK file set on VS3100(m30),with dua2:,
    it works fine.
    I will check the file (ascii and binary) on my ST this evening.
    
    	Jean-claude.
    

Are you trying to import the EXACT same file in both cases? PCDISK will
SILENTLY not import a file if it's name does not conform to DOS names.
Specificly if the the file name is longer than 8 characters or the extension
is longer than 3 characters then PCdisk will NOT import the file and it will
NOT tell you that it didn't (nor will it tell you it did :-).

	Ray

    
    Filename are ok,
    I had check on ST file copied on vaxstation3100 M30,
    they are OK.
    The PB is realy on VS3100 M38.
    Can someone else make a test ?
    

    
    I also try SOFTPC on VS3100 M38,
    it work with 1.4MO flopply read/write and
    only read 730ko floppy.
    
    Has anybody else used SOFTPC on vs3100 m30 and 730ko floppy ?
    Has anybody else used SOFTPC on vs3100 m38 and 730ko floppy ?

    thanks.

    This note has gone quiet.
    
    I can use PCDISK V1.0 with a 'normal' 3100 (i.e. the floppy drive is
    DUA2) and the same commands FAIL to work on a 3100 M38 (i.e. it's a
    SCSI floppy called DKA500).
    
    Are we the only ones with this problem ?
    
    		Stuart P.

    Stuart,
    
    It seems that my initial sucess with the transfer was pre-mature.
    
    I managed to get a lot of nice/good stuff off the net and panarthea
    archive, but then when a memory upgrade was done to the 3100 the drive
    no longer worked. I assume it's due to some kind of parameter change
    and then the AUTOGEN.
    
    If i manage to find the little blighter i'll put in another note, but
    i'm not too optimistic...
    
    
    				Lewis.

    I've just realised that this may have been said before but I was too
    thick to understand it.
    
    The "OLD" floppy (DUA2) can READ and WRITE 720K disks.
    The "NEW" floppy (DKA500) can ONLY READ 720K disks.
    
    They clearly changed the spec of the floppy when they put in a SCSI
    device. It's not software or 'VAX' hardware related at all.
    
    		Stuart P.

    Hello..I obtained and tried PCDISK on my 3100.  Everything works great
    but when I type use b: squash$dua2: /write   I don't get a "b:/>".  I
    tried the import command and I didn't get any errors so I assumed it
    copied.  I can't, however, do a dir b:.  It gives me a message about
    accessing the drive and kicks me out of PCDISK.  I am doing all this
    from another machine in our cluster though.  Am I doing anything
    wrong??
    
    Andrew
    
    

I just did a "use b: ..." and got the B:\ prompt and was able to do a dir as
well.

>    from another machine in our cluster though.  Am I doing anything
You are sethost'ed to the machine the disk is on right? I think that is the
only way you can access the disk.

	Ray

    Yeah, I was logged on to squash::.  I went home last night and put the
    disk in my ST and sure enough, the files I copied were there.  They
    unarc'd fine too.  I had trouble unlzhing alchimie though, it said I
    had bad lzh headers or something and gave me TOS error 35 when I tried
    to run the resulting alchimie.  As long as the stuff gets on the disk I
    don't mind not being able to do a dir.  I could just use one our PC's
    here to do that (I could just copy files right to the pc's but that's
    too easy).
    
    Andrew

    Ahhh, I have it now.  I was missing the pcdiskshr.exe and that was the
    reason I didn't get a b:\ or a dir.
    
    andrew

I just found out that V4.01 of PCDISK is available. It can be copied from my
directory - OLDTMR::$1$DUA8:[WALLACE.PUBLIC]PCDISK*.*

The list of files are:

$ dir/prot [-.public]pc*

Directory $1$DUA8:[WALLACE.PUBLIC]

PCDISK.EXE;1             77   6-NOV-1991 09:04:00.45  (RWED,RWED,RE,RE)
PCDISKHLP.HLB;1          80   6-NOV-1991 09:04:02.69  (RWED,RWED,RE,RE)
PCDISKSHR.EXE;1         126   6-NOV-1991 09:03:26.96  (RWED,RWED,RE,RE)
PCDISK_IVP.COM;1          6   6-NOV-1991 09:44:37.90  (RWED,RWED,RE,RE)
PCDISK_KITINSTAL.COM;1
                          9  27-SEP-1990 11:40:21.44  (RWED,RWED,RE,RE)

Total of 5 files, 298 blocks.

You can even format with this version if you have PHYS_IO privelege.

I haven't tried it out, but I assume they have fixed the
bugs/problems/limitations we were seeing with V1.0.

	Ray